Water Flood in House Basement Advice?

[BvilleBound]

1. I'am pretty certain it is sewer.


2. The name of that cone shaped pump is called Drummond Submerisible Sump-Effluent Pump. So it isn't a sump pump then? That cost under $200. That whole job cost $400-$500 total.


3. The $1600 sump pump that was installed by that guy in the 2nd job, where exactly is this sump pump in the pictures I posted? The $1600 job is in pictures 6, 7 and 8 but the best picture is 8 as it shows the black circle and the small white cylinder. You are telling me that is the $1600 sump pump? I am very confused with this part. There is no $1600 sump pump picture for me to post. The $1600 job is that black circle and small white cylinder installed in picture 8. There is no sump pump here unless I am confused what you mean?

Our basement is a walk out basement as well. There are 2 entrances to it actually. Was this information important? I didn't mention this earlier because I didn't thought that was necessary.


4. In picture 1, the Drummond sump pump is put in that area. In picture 2, we just lift the Drummond sump pump up from that spot and put it to the side to show those 2 holes underneath it from picture 1.


5. We never noticed water leaking from the walls.



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Dear Michael: Some more info:

(1) Sewer or septic: Unfortunately, "pretty certain" is not sufficient. Please check with your town to make sure that house does not have a septic system.

(2) Drummond pump: When contractors and homeowners refer to a "sump pump", they typically mean a larger pump inside a ~5 to 10 gallon round plastic container that waste water flows into, typically in a basement. As I noted previously, the sump pump automatically turns on when the container is ~1/2 full, and lifts the waste water up to the home's main waste line. Pumps like that Drummond are typically referred to as a 'water pump' - to drain ordinary water e.g. from a collection point. The capacity is much lower, as you found when water flooded your basement and the Drummond could no keep up. I believe this is the Drummond model you have in the basement: https://www.harborfreight.com/14-hp-worry-free-automatic-submersible-utility-pump-56599.html

(3) $1,600 job: The 'white cylinder' looks like standard PVC pipe. You don't have any idea what was done when this pipe was installed? If this work was done with a permit (as it should have been) the Town building dept will have a copy of it - and the permit may provide more details. Does water come out of it when the shower is run or the toilet is flushed?

(4) Walkout basement: Is the street next to your parents' home on the side that the walkout basement opens to? Main sewer lines are typically run under streets. Again, your Town's building dept. can tell you exactly where the main sewer line is, if this house is connected to one.

(5) Quote: A good plumber will provide a detailed quote. The make and model of the sump pump should be included, for example. If new pipes need to be installed and the concrete floor of the basement needs to be cut and patched, this should be detailed. Otherwise, you could get the cheapest sump pump (with no grinder), and the contractor could cut a trench in your basement and not patch it. The devil is in the details. This also protects the plumber - because the detailed quote spells everything out. Everything else is extra, with additional costs.

(6) Cost: You need a detailed quote to determine the extent of the project and cost. Unfortunately, it is clear that your knowledge of plumbing systems and previous work done on the property is limited - so I and others cannot offer more suggestions until you have more information.

 

[68bucks]

It sounds to me like the sanitary sewer lines are flooding. If water comes up through the shower drain and the toilet it's the sanitary system. The sump that is all sealed with 3" or 4" lines to it looks like a sewage lift sump. There would be toilet paper in there. The contractor called it an effluent pump which is what a sewage pump is called. Maybe the down spouts are tied into the sewer line. If there is a restriction in the sewer line it might be fine most of the time but when you get a large rain event it can't drain fast enough and backs up where ever it can. The 2 holes in the flow where water comes in look like lines for a future bathroom.

 

[MichaelJoe]

It's sewer and not septic.

I think that's the one. However, it isn't that color. It seems to be black and as opposes to green? They said it cost $190. Strange thing is I remember the box was green like the one in the picture but the actual thing is black?

I have no idea what was done here when it was installed. This is my parent's house so I wasn't here when both of those 2 jobs were done. They told me when that person did that $1600 job, it wasn't actually that guy but his workers he hired to do it, they installed that black circle and that small white cylinder which you say is a standard PVP pipe. I had no idea that's even a pipe... I don't know anything about house fixtures and things.


Does water come out of it when the shower is on or the toilet is flushed?


I have no idea about that. I should go and turn on the shower and then walk all the way there to see if water comes out? The only thing I know about that is like maybe a week after the guy did the $1600 job and installed that black circle and the standard PVP pipe, water was suddenly coming out of the shower drain. Then we asked that guy about it and he came over and found paper but not sure if he said toilet paper or not ... and this is obviously in that room with the pictures.

When there is a water flood, water is coming out from that standard PVP pipe and the other 2 drains in those photos so from 3 holes in that room. Does that make sense?



We have 2 entrances from the basement to the outside. From the front, if you go outside, you are then in the street. If you go outside from the back of the basement, you are in the back but it's not like a backyard.


That new person said they would do everything for 5k total including installing that sump pump from the last picture. He said it would take 2-3 days doing it by himself and said it will work. He didn't even anymore details besides he will fix everything for that price.


The person who did the previous 2 jobs was here recently and told my parents he is going to fix this issue with below.


They told me that same person who did the previous 2 jobs is going to buy 2 of those white cylinder things like in picture 8. Put each of those 2 white cylinders over the 2 drains in picture 2. Then with all these 3 white cylinders, he is going to cover each of these 3 white cylinders with a plastic cover each. Does that make sense? They said this wouldn't cost that much money and probably like $100 or so for him to do that. They said he thought of that as an idea so that way the water won't come out. They also said they would maybe snake the pipes and said they going to snake or cut something in the back of the house as well. Do you know if that would work? I said that idea doesn't sound it would work because if it was that simple, someone on the forums who have suggested this idea?

 

[MichaelJoe]

Anyone have advice?

 

[68bucks]

Anyone have advice?

Do you know anyone local that could come over and explain how the system works? I still believe that the tank in your last photo is sewage and not a sump crock. A sump crock is made to pump ground water that drains around your foundation. It usually pumps someplace other than the sanitary sewer system be it a municipal system or a private septic system. If that is a sewage lift station and the ground water is piped into it, heavy rain might overcome the pump and sewage will back up in the drains like the shower and the toilet. As I mentioned above, the opening where they placed a sump pump looks like unused drains for a future bathroom or maybe for a floof drain. The large pipe that is connected is probably a vent. Hard to say from here. If they are drains sewage would back up there also. I think the first guy just set a cheap sump pump in that low area to pump the water out. It didn't fix anything, obviously. Also if the drain line out to sewer system has an obstruction, like tree roots, etc. that could prevent the pump from keeping up also resulting in the same problem. Get someone to come over and explain the system to you. A neighbor, coworker, friend, anyone that is a little handy just to trouble shoot.

 

[BvilleBound]

I agree with 68Bucks. You need to get a plumber over there to explain the system to you, e.g. "Where is the main waste line?" He/she can explain all of the parts and details - and maybe sketch out the lines in the basement. Going back and forth with these questions won't provide the answers you need.

Plus, please clarify: You referred to this level as a 'basement' - but said if you walk out one side of it, you will walk into the street - and the other into the back yard area. So is this 'basement' actually at ground level - or below ground level? This makes a LOT of difference, e.g. to determine if a sump pump is needed.

 

[MichaelJoe]

What do you mean explain how the system works? You mean the two things that were installed, the drummond sump pump and then $1600 thing later on? Or you mean how everything works? They did a 3rd job not long ago where I mentioned in my previous post and that person seems pretty confident it would work even though online people say it won't.


I can take pictures of the basement like I did earlier.


It's a basement but when you walk out of it, you have go walk up a few stairs. I didn't recall to mention this. The basement is below ground level.

 

[BvilleBound]

Dear Michael: Thanks for this important clarification. The need - or not - for a sump pump for waste water in your 'basement' depends entirely on how high the basemen bathroom(s) are compared to the house's main waste line - and the municipal waste line in the street. If you cannot identify the home's main waste line, this is just one example of why you need to hire a licensed plumber to inspect your parents' home and provide a written plan for a solution. Not just a price, as I noted previously.

For example: The floor of the walk-out basement in our home is ~4' below the level of the main waste line, which is ~4' below grade to prevent frost. We have dual Liberty ProVore sump pumps with grinders that lift waste water from the toilet, shower, sink and washing machine up 4' to that main waste line. The basement line also has a check valve - so wastewater from the municipal line can never flow 'downhill' into our basement. I chose the Liberty ProVore dual system because it (a) grinds up almost everything anyone could toss into a toilet - even diapers! and (b) the Liberty controller automatically alternates between the two pumps, to even out wear, and if one pump fails it shifts to the other, for fail-safe service.

All of this highlights, again, why you need to hire a licensed, experienced plumber to diagnose your parents' home and detail the best solution. None of us on this forum, despite our experience, can answer these questions remotely - unless you have a thorough understanding of residential plumbing systems, this home's plumbing system, terms for common parts, etc. We cannot 'turn you into a plumber' via the web.

 

[MichaelJoe]

Okay so I made a mistake with the name of that first job $200 hp 1/3 drummond sump pump which I thought it was. That wasn't the machine in the picture. The name of it is Everbilt 1/4 hp submersible pool cover pump. But does that matter that much? It cost $200 and few hundred dollars for that person to do the installation. That is the machine in the first few pictures.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-hp-Submersible-Pool-Cover-Pump-HDPCP25/323282107


I get what you are saying. The thing is they use that one guy usually to do jobs so that is why they keep going back to him. Do you want me to take a picture of how it looks now after the 3rd job that was done? Again, they did it anyways.

Me taking pictures everywhere wouldn't help that much either right?

 

[BvilleBound]

Dear Michael: You should do a search for plumbing companies near your parents' home, then check their ratings on Yelp, Google, etc. Ask two to stop by and provide a detailed, written estimate for repairs to fix the problem - and an explanation of the problem so you can understand it and explain it to your parents. (Continuing to return to the same guy is a formula for repeated failure.) You can scan and post their estimates on this forum if you have more questions.

If they say a sump pump is required, which seems likely, tell them that you want a high quality sump pump with a grinder. Mention Liberty as an example.

Second, more photos will not help - as I keep repeating. You need a review by a professional, licensed plumber.

 

[68bucks]

Okay so I made a mistake with the name of that first job $200 hp 1/3 drummond sump pump which I thought it was. That wasn't the machine in the picture. The name of it is Everbilt 1/4 hp submersible pool cover pump. But does that matter that much? It cost $200 and few hundred dollars for that person to do the installation. That is the machine in the first few pictures.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-hp-Submersible-Pool-Cover-Pump-HDPCP25/323282107


I get what you are saying. The thing is they use that one guy usually to do jobs so that is why they keep going back to him. Do you want me to take a picture of how it looks now after the 3rd job that was done? Again, they did it anyways.

Me taking pictures everywhere wouldn't help that much either right?

A pool cover pump is just a pump meant to pump very shallow water. It's still basically just a sump pump. They put that there just to pump the water that comes up those 2 lines in the floor. It's a bad idea, it wasn't meant to fix anything just manage the problem a little. What I meant by "how everything works" is someone that understands your plumbing system and can tell you what all the components are supposed to do so you understand it. It could be a friend, neighbor, coworker, someone like that. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a plumber. I'm not a plumber but I could walk through a house and look at how everything is put together and understand how it's supposed to work. That's step number 1 to figure out what's going wrong. If you don't have someone that can help with that you will probably have to get a plumber out and ask them to explain how the system works.

I. Still think your waster water pump is not keeping up either because it's being overwhelmed or the discharge is restricted.

 

[BvilleBound]

Dear 68Bucks: There are two problems with the "ask a friend / coworker" approach. (a) You do not know if the friend is actually qualified and knows what he/she is talking about, and (b) The friend cannot provide a detailed quote for repairs. Michael clearly needs professional advice and a detailed quote for repairs, to end this series of fixes that did not fix the problem. Plus, the capacity of the "pool cover pump" is not the issue - if toilet paper is flowing into the basement, and water is coming up through the shower drain.

 

[68bucks]

Dear 68Bucks: There are two problems with the "ask a friend / coworker" approach. (a) You do not know if the friend is actually qualified and knows what he/she is talking about, and (b) The friend cannot provide a detailed quote for repairs. Michael clearly needs professional advice and a detailed quote for repairs, to end this series of fixes that did not fix the problem. Plus, the capacity of the "pool cover pump" is not the issue - if toilet paper is flowing into the basement, and water is coming up through the shower drain.

I'm talking about just someone to help him understand the system not provide a quote or necessarily help him troubleshoot. And yes as I said in my fist post if it's coming up from drains it's sewage not ground water. This is a dyi site so I'm trying to help him learn how to do that. We all started somewhere and probably ignorant. I know I did. If you can find someone to help you learn for free it's better than paying a plumber $100 just to show up at the door.

 

[MichaelJoe]

So they had the same person do that thing that I mentioned earlier.

They now want to buy this as the last thing.

Does anyone have any experience with the vevor 1.5 hp submersible cast iron and steel sump pump? Is this much better than the current sump pump we have which is the Everbilt 1/4 hyp submersible pool cover pump?

This is the one we have
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-hp-Submersible-Pool-Cover-Pump-HDPCP25/323282107



This is the one they want to buy. Is this one below much better? Reviews overall seems good?

https://www.vevor.com/sewage-pump-c...OcaHNysuJ2heOQhw_9gJaewtZiP7TE1REcIcbjYbL1C2r

 

[68bucks]

So they had the same person do that thing that I mentioned earlier.

They now want to buy this as the last thing.

Does anyone have any experience with the vevor 1.5 hp submersible cast iron and steel sump pump? Is this much better than the current sump pump we have which is the Everbilt 1/4 hyp submersible pool cover pump?

This is the one we have
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-hp-Submersible-Pool-Cover-Pump-HDPCP25/323282107



This is the one they want to buy. Is this one below much better? Reviews overall seems good?

https://www.vevor.com/sewage-pump-c...OcaHNysuJ2heOQhw_9gJaewtZiP7TE1REcIcbjYbL1C2r

Those pumps are for very different applications. Where are they planning to install that pump and why do they want to install it? In other words what do they say is the problem that this pump will fix. Have them explain the problem and how this pump will fix it. You want to understand the problem before you approve the repair.

 

[MichaelJoe]

What's the difference between the everbilt vs the vevor pump? We have the everbilt pump. We are going to buy the vevor pump which seems to have very good reviews?

We were told by neighbors that they use a vevor pump and it was very good.

We want to install it exactly where the everbilt pump is so we would have 2 pumps there? So if one doesn't work or doesn't work strong enough, the other one would work. But the point is to have 2 of them working at once so it would handle the water? A neighbor said they have 2 of these pumps and it works for them.

 

[MichaelJoe]

Someone mentioned the everbilt is not a real sump pump. This vevor is a real sump pump. Anyone have experience with the vevor?