Healthcare costs.

[Chris]

that is incorrect.
EVERYBODY gets Preventive care for free, it is part of the ACA regulations.
My wife just got a colonoscopy last week, cost was zero not even a deductible or co pay .
So we all get the same benefits as far as preventative care goes.

In respect to "people like Chris" paying for others, that is what ALL insurance is.
Want to make that bill higher for everyone? Simply have fewer and fewer people insured, have them go to ERs when their condition becomes so bad they have no choice and then WHO pays for that bill?
We all do.

No matter how you look at it we ALL are going to pay for it one way or another, far less expensive to get the poor insured and going to the doctor regularly than pay for the insanely high ER bills.

Best possible solution is Universal Healthcare, then EVERYBODY is treated exactly the same, same cost no matter what you make.
That is why the healthcare in the US is rated 37th in the world even though we pay far more than anyone else.

Who is paying for this preventative care for all these millions of people?

 

[beachguy005]

I think the reason premiums are so high is because of the pre-existing conditions requirement. It's a bit of a catch 22...people that haven't had health care in the past or paid into any system for it, now get care for almost zero cost. Just zero cost to them, not the insurance companies. Companies won't go into the red in hopes that sometime in the future they will be able to cover those costs.
Think about your auto insurance. What do you think your rates would be if all someone had to do was register a damaged car, sign up for insurance, then just bring it in for repairs at no cost to them but that the insurance pays for?

 

[nealtw]

Who is paying for this preventative care for all these millions of people?

Who paid for all those er visits before?

 

[Chris]

All that cash goes in the other pocket un-taxed and shows up in his books as a lose and proves why he needs to charge so much, adding to cost for all.

Tell us again why we hate rules and regulation.

I agree and disagree.

We all know the whole system is screwed up and not getting any better. Rules and regulation can help if they ever come up with any. Go to the hospital and that chair you are sitting on that costs about 8.50 to make was sold to the hospital for 1700 bucks, that Xray you just had done costs about 30 bucks after everything is paid for including a normal profit yet the insurance company is billed 900 bucks. When I go in and pay cash I am paying what things really cost and not this highly inflated game. I am sure some keep the cash and hide it from the IRS but that is a hole nother can o worms.

We run into the same thing in construction but the government is the one making the rules. I am working on a project installing sewer lines and the contract is 100k, the job would normally go for about 60k but the government says I need to pay my guys prevailing wage rates and a do certified payroll and a few other odds and ends. My guys are happy because they are making almost double what they were before and believe me they are paid good to begin with. To me this is about the same thing, there is no reason a guy who makes about 25 bucks an hour which is comparable to anyone else doing his job needs to make 48 bucks an hour because the government thinks that is what he needs to make to live a normal life style.

There is just no winning this battle. Maybe we need to fire the whole dang country and start over.

 

[nunyabiz1]

If it had absolutely nothing to do with O'care then why did my premiums triple last January when it went into effect? My plan did not change for the better. When I asked my insurance guy I was told it was because the insurance companies are being forced to accept anyone that applies now regardless of pre-existing condition and that many many more things were covered which were not before and the insurance companies are charging for all that.

Free healthcare for someone just means that someone else is paying for it, whether it be from our tax dollars or any other avenue.

My monthly insurance cost a little over a year ago was 80 dollars per month including dental. January 1st it jumped to 265 per month for the exact same plan yet they dropped my office copays from 45 a visit to not covered. My wifes company family plan went from 400 a month to 1640 a month so I got a new plan for the family at 700 per month then had a second child and it went up to 840 a month. Before O'care you could have up to four children before the price of the plan went up.

The insurance companies are doing two things, they are adjusting the cost of their service to accommodate what they are being forced to cover and they are also in retaliation to the government for forcing them to do things so we are getting to pay for it.

Please tell me more on how this has nothing to do with O'care at all?

So to you the fact that Insurance companies are raising your cost even though they are actually making MORE money because of millions more in the system somehow means that the ACA is at fault, even though it is the Insurance companies that are raising your rates?
You realise of course that the insurance company is the one getting those subsidies from the government right? So the insurance company is losing nothing and gaining everything, so tell me again why they are raising your rates? Has zero to do with the ACA, has everything to do with what insurance companies have been doing since DAY ONE that insurance existed.
Remember Insurance Companies lobbied pretty heavily FOR the ACA not against it.

My wife and I have insurance through her employer, that employer was the Federal Court system of which she retired from 4+ years ago. We have the exact same HC as Congress and the Judiciary have.
We pay $250/month for FULL coverage, RX, Dental, Medical, Vision.
This premium has not changed other than one year it might go up $1 the next year it could be $2 less, far as I can remember I do not think it has changed say $10 total in 10+ years.
The only real change is just this year our deducible went up to $350 from $300, BUT with all the free preventative care we actually end up paying far less, in fact we may not even pay our full deductible this year.

Now why is our Insurance which is Federal BCBS not changed in 10 years while yours has tripled in just 2 years?
We are both under the same rules of the big bad ACA.

The only explanation is that insurance companies are going to screw you for as much as they possibly can just like they ALWAYS HAVE, the ACA has nothing to do with this, if anything the ACA handed those same insurance company's a windfall of massive profits, they could in fact LOWER your premiums and make just as much as they did 5 years ago.

So, again the only real solution is Universal Healthcare or a Medicare for All type thing, that way people like yourself do not pay more than someone making minimum wage.
Healthcare would be exactly the same for everyone regardless of income, either free, or a nominal $100/month and those that could not afford the $100 would be subsidized but that is about it.
But not you paying $1,000 a month while someone else pays $20.

As long as FOR PROFIT Health Insurance companies are in charge of your healthcare we are all going to paying more and more and more.
For Profit healthcare is immoral, it should be a crime.

It is along the same lines as For Profit Prisons, a prison system set up to MAKE MONEY by keeping as many people as possible incarcerated?
That is insane.

So is for profit healthcare, the ACA tried and largely failed to keep cost down because it did not go far enough to control Insurance Companies.
the best thing is to get rid of that middle man altogether, they are basically leeches and parasites and there is really no reason for them to exist.

 

[Chris]

Who paid for all those er visits before?

I have always paid for my own visits just like I paid for my own food and clothing. When I didn't have enough money I went out and found work and worked for it. When I couldn't afford to have a phone I didn't have a phone. It's pretty simple in my little world, if I can afford something I do without or find a way.

I think insurance should only cover catastrophic things just like car insurance. Leave it up to the person to do their own preventative maintenance. When I was younger we grew up dirt floor poor. we used free clinics or saved for what we needed. I had a couple surgeries when I was young and we made payments until it was paid off. People have lost that sense of responsibility. Health insurance gets abused a lot of the time. People will go to the doctor if they stub their toe or get a common cold which in turn runs up costs for everyone.

 

[nunyabiz1]

Who is paying for this preventative care for all these millions of people?

We all are, just like we all are paying for those unpaid for ER visits, guess which one is FAR more costly?
Either we insure everyone so all bills can be paid, we make it so that preventive care is free so that underlying conditions are found early thus cost FAR less for treatment which cost us all far less. We just need to make regulations that force these insurance companies to pass on those savings to the consumer instead of into their pockets.

Or well we can all just pay cash for all medical care.
Hope you got a few hundred $1000 lying around if you get in a car accident and require a very lengthy hospital stay or maybe you get cancer or any of the 1000s of other diseases that could cost 10s even 100s of 1000s.

Healthcare should be a RIGHT not a privilege.

 

[nealtw]

I agree and disagree.

There is just no winning this battle. Maybe we need to fire the whole dang country and start over.

I understand you are caught in the middle. I hhave been all over this deal as I have worked in union and non union jobs and owned both union and non union businesses.

You have to understand history to figure it out. A hundred years ago there was one or two companies that controled your industry, they were well connected and helped right the rules and could care less about employees. Just to get a seat at the table people died for the right to have an organization or union.
Once that was in place the business owners went back to there contacts and had the rule ,only union shops need apply, that's where that fair wage thing came from. Once they had that greed kicked in when they realized they could charge way more. Once the union figured out how much the empoyer was making on theirback they wanted and got their fair share.

As you read that and think ya, it's those union guys that did this, remember, if non of that gread and sharing happened there would be no room for you in the business.

 

[Chris]

So to you the fact that Insurance companies are raising your cost even though they are actually making MORE money because of millions more in the system somehow means that the ACA is at fault, even though it is the Insurance companies that are raising your rates?
You realise of course that the insurance company is the one getting those subsidies from the government right? So the insurance company is losing nothing and gaining everything, so tell me again why they are raising your rates? Has zero to do with the ACA, has everything to do with what insurance companies have been doing since DAY ONE that insurance existed.
Remember Insurance Companies lobbied pretty heavily FOR the ACA not against it.

My wife and I have insurance through her employer, that employer was the Federal Court system of which she retired from 4+ years ago. We have the exact same HC as Congress and the Judiciary have.
We pay $250/month for FULL coverage, RX, Dental, Medical, Vision.
This premium has not changed other than one year it might go up $1 the next year it could be $2 less, far as I can remember I do not think it has changed say $10 total in 10+ years.
The only real change is just this year our deducible went up to $350 from $300, BUT with all the free preventative care we actually end up paying far less, in fact we may not even pay our full deductible this year.

Now why is our Insurance which is Federal BCBS not changed in 10 years while yours has tripled in just 2 years?
We are both under the same rules of the big bad ACA.

The only explanation is that insurance companies are going to screw you for as much as they possibly can just like they ALWAYS HAVE, the ACA has nothing to do with this, if anything the ACA handed those same insurance company's a windfall of massive profits, they could in fact LOWER your premiums and make just as much as they did 5 years ago.

So, again the only real solution is Universal Healthcare or a Medicare for All type thing, that way people like yourself do not pay more than someone making minimum wage.
Healthcare would be exactly the same for everyone regardless of income, either free, or a nominal $100/month and those that could not afford the $100 would be subsidized but that is about it.
But not you paying $1,000 a month while someone else pays $20.

As long as FOR PROFIT Health Insurance companies are in charge of your healthcare we are all going to paying more and more and more.
For Profit healthcare is immoral, it should be a crime.

It is along the same lines as For Profit Prisons, a prison system set up to MAKE MONEY by keeping as many people as possible incarcerated?
That is insane.

So is for profit healthcare, the ACA tried and largely failed to keep cost down because it did not go far enough to control Insurance Companies.
the best thing is to get rid of that middle man altogether, they are basically leeches and parasites and there is really no reason for them to exist.

I agree to a certain extent. When we look at government run anything most have failed in some way or end up costing much more than thought. If everyone in the country was required to pay 100 dollars a month would that cover the costs of hospitals? Would that pay the salaries of the doctors who spent a boat load of their own money to learn this stuff or are they going to tell them what they make now too? Where does it end? Would we end up a country that gets told where we work and what we do for a living? Why not have government grocery stores too that give us our weekly allowance of healthy food? Where does it end? if you let them control everything then why would anyone strive to do better than anyone else?

Take me for example, I grew up dirt floor poor, I didn't want to be poor anymore, I wanted some finer things in life. I dropped out of high school in the tenth grade to go to work full time. I started my work career at 13 years old. I worked my *** off and did what it took to get ahead. By 28 I owned my own company and now I do pretty well for myself in my mid 30's. Never once did anyone help me out or pay for anything. I saved my money and did what I had to do. Now that I am doing slightly better than most in my age group I get to pay more than others who don't have the drive I do to get ahead. That is where my problem is. The government will pay for most of all of the health care for someone who does not make much money yet feels that I should pay more because I work my *** off. Why can't the government pay for some of my healthcare too if they are trying to make things fair and affordable? I say the government because I am getting my price quotes from the government run website.

Remember I only speak from what I see here in California where there are very few truly poor people. Most poor people here that are on government assistance are driving a nicer car than I do living in a larger house with a bigger TV. I would have much less negative towards government assistance if there was less scamming going on. They need to have more of their own rules and regulation to makes sure those getting assistance actually need it.

 

[zannej]

I can see both sides of this. As I said, I don't know what the solution to the problem is, although I do think that there needs to be some regulation of what hospitals and doctors charge.

I see people saying that ACA guarantees everyone can get preventative care for free... Not true. That does not happen where I live. I don't expect free healthcare, but I would like it to be at least affordable. My general practice doctor is nice enough to reduce the office visit fee because he knows I don't have insurance. I live in an area with a lot of poverty. Median household income is less than $25k per year in this area and they estimate that at least $45k per year is needed for a living wage.

On one hand, I don't think its right to give people a completely free ride if they are too lazy to do anything and they just want to bilk the government. We have a system that penalizes people who work hard but rewards people for being lazy and the system is easy to fool. I know some people who legitimately need public assistance and who work but have had bad luck with natural disasters and injuries, but I also know some people who just cheat the system.

I will say, that it is sad that there are people who are dying because they can't afford healthcare. I feel more sorry for the children who can't do anything about their situation. I have friends who work and who have insurance but still can't afford some treatment for their children because the co-pays are so high.

 

[nunyabiz1]

I agree to a certain extent. When we look at government run anything most have failed in some way or end up costing much more than thought. If everyone in the country was required to pay 100 dollars a month would that cover the costs of hospitals? Would that pay the salaries of the doctors who spent a boat load of their own money to learn this stuff or are they going to tell them what they make now too? Where does it end? Would we end up a country that gets told where we work and what we do for a living? Why not have government grocery stores too that give us our weekly allowance of healthy food? Where does it end? if you let them control everything then why would anyone strive to do better than anyone else?

You realize of course that most every other country in the world has Universal Healthcare or some form of it and they spend far less than we do here and get better Healthcare than we do, right?
So if say Denmark or Finland can afford to give everyone virtually free healthcare, give all those doctors a FREE education unlike here.
Their doctors make just about the same as doctors here do.
So how is that Denmark and Finland can magically pull this off yet in the US we pay MORE and get LESS?
These countries also have a much higher standard of living and in general are happier and healthier with less poverty than here and even those that are under the poverty line are better taken care of.
I would take that "Socialism" anyday over rampant out of control Capitalism that inevitably leads to Fascism.

Why is it do you think that the top 2% just keep on getting richer and richer while the bottom 98% poorer?

 

[frodo]

why should I pay for abortions and birth control? I am not a woman.
why should i pay for mammy grams ?
why should i pay for drug rehab? i dont do drugs

why should i pay for a bunch of crap that i do not want or need?

who said I should pay for YOUR medical costs. I am not your momma.

pay for your own.

should I be saddled with EVERYBODIES health care costs?
how about housing?
utilities?
food?
clothes?
when do people take responsibility for them selves?
I will pay for MY health care, you pay for yours.


if you guys in different countries want to live in a nanny state, go for it.
I do not want to live in a socialistic/ communiest government



the more people on social programs, [pigs sucking the tit]
the more lazy *** sit around the house do nothings we have.
proven fact, when welfare is cut, people get off their buts and get jobs

 

[nunyabiz1]

why should I pay for abortions and birth control? I am not a woman.
why should i pay for mammy grams ?
why should i pay for drug rehab? i dont do drugs

why should i pay for a bunch of crap that i do not want or need?

who said I should pay for YOUR medical costs. I am not your momma.

pay for your own.

should I be saddled with EVERYBODIES health care costs?
how about housing?
utilities?
food?
clothes?
when do people take responsibility for them selves?
I will pay for MY health care, you pay for yours.

So then you would rather have no insurance of any kind, just pay cash for everything and IF you do not have enough cash well then time for you to die?

In a system of 'Insurance" that is how it works, everyone pays for everyone else hopefully at a discounted rate or at least levels out so that you pay a set amount instead of nothing as long as you are perfectly healthy but get in an accident or get sick and BAM, that will be $97,890 Frodo, Oh you cant afford that?

There is a pad on the ground over there shall I notify your next of kin to come pick up the body?

You are going to pay for it one way or another.

The absolute cheapest way is for everyone to pay taxes that are enough to take care of everyone's Medical care, Education, and overall safety nets.

The only people that benefit from extremely low taxes and not paying anything except for oneself? are just the filthy rich.

If you are filthy rich living in right wing world would be pure nirvana, everyone else? Not so much.


Obama
1 Does not care if you own a gun
2. Wants you to have a well paying job with benefits
3. Is a Harvard educated Constitutional Law Professor.

 

[frodo]

dont worry about obummrnocare, the whole thing is crumbling like a deck of cards on its own

 

[frodo]

So then you would rather have no insurance of any kind, just pay cash for everything and IF you do not have enough cash well then time for you to die?

In a system of 'Insurance" that is how it works, everyone pays for everyone else hopefully at a discounted rate or at least levels out so that you pay a set amount instead of nothing as long as you are perfectly healthy but get in an accident or get sick and BAM, that will be $97,890 Frodo, Oh you cant afford that?
where do you get the misconception that everyone with out insurance will fall over dead? fact of the matter is, the majority only need preventive medicine. I am happy to pay for those visits out of my own pocket, OR have a simple plan that covers only that
There is a pad on the ground over there shall I notify your next of kin to come pick up the body?

You are going to pay for it one way or another.

The absolute cheapest way is for everyone to pay taxes that are enough to take care of everyone's Medical care, Education, and overall safety nets.
FLAT TAX my mis informed friend
The only people that benefit from extremely low taxes and not paying anything except for oneself? are just the filthy rich.

If you are filthy rich living in right wing world would be pure nirvana, everyone else? Not so much.


Obama
1 Does not care if you own a gun
then why is he trying so hard to have them outlawed
2. Wants you to have a well paying job with benefits
then why is he driving business over sea's with the highest tax's on business in the world,

3. Is a Harvard educated Constitutional Law Professor.

just because you have a lot of jewelry, does not make you MR T

 

[slownsteady]

why should I pay for abortions and birth control? I am not a woman.
why should i pay for mammy grams ?
why should i pay for drug rehab? i dont do drugs

why should i pay for a bunch of crap that i do not want or need?

who said I should pay for YOUR medical costs. I am not your momma.

pay for your own.

should I be saddled with EVERYBODIES health care costs?
how about housing?
utilities?
food?
clothes?
when do people take responsibility for them selves?
I will pay for MY health care, you pay for yours.


if you guys in different countries want to live in a nanny state, go for it.
I do not want to live in a socialistic/ communiest government



the more people on social programs, [pigs sucking the tit]
the more lazy *** sit around the house do nothings we have.
proven fact, when welfare is cut, people get off their buts and get jobs

That's fine if you are healthy and have money. Pray that we should all be so lucky. But if one little thing goes wrong....PFFFFFT! It's all gone. Lose your job? Injure your back? Get an unlucky break and find you have bad genes? You're S.O.L.
If all those people just disappeared, like changing the channel on the TV, no problem. But they are still here, they're poor and they're disgruntled. No problem for you, yet.

 

[nunyabiz1]

"where do you get the misconception that everyone with out insurance will fall over dead? fact of the matter is, the majority only need preventive medicine. I am happy to pay for those visits out of my own pocket, OR have a simple plan that covers only that"

Didn't say that, but if insurance did not exist and doctors only accepted cash then if you do not have the cash then you do not get the care, thus you die.

"FLAT TAX my mis informed friend"

Flat tax thoroughly screws the poor and the bottom 50 or so percent of the population while the rich skate with even more money.
My thinks he's informed friend.

"

then why is he trying so hard to have them outlawed"

Like what exactly? What has Obama tried to pass to take away guns from anyone? other than fully automatic assault weapons.

"then why is he driving business over sea's with the highest tax's on business in the world,

"

LOL, taxes are lower than they have been in over 50+ years for businesses.
What has actually made corporations go overseas are the Bills that the Corporations themselves fought for to give them incentives to take jobs overseas, mostly passed by Tpublicans BTW.
The tax rate Vs the "effective tax rates" are two completely different things.

It is possible that a Business could theoretically pay as much as 39.1% in tax both Fed/state combined if they are run by an imbecile.
However with loopholes and incentives and tax breaks and deferments and on and on the average corporation in the US pays between 12-27% in fact some of the most profitable corporations actually pay LESS than nothing, they get MONEY BACK without even paying a dime.

Your best bet is to stop watching Fox so called news, your panties will untwist within a year or two and you will be a happier person.

 

[Chris]

You realize of course that most every other country in the world has Universal Healthcare or some form of it and they spend far less than we do here and get better Healthcare than we do, right?
So if say Denmark or Finland can afford to give everyone virtually free healthcare, give all those doctors a FREE education unlike here.
Their doctors make just about the same as doctors here do.
So how is that Denmark and Finland can magically pull this off yet in the US we pay MORE and get LESS?
These countries also have a much higher standard of living and in general are happier and healthier with less poverty than here and even those that are under the poverty line are better taken care of.
I would take that "Socialism" anyday over rampant out of control Capitalism that inevitably leads to Fascism.

Why is it do you think that the top 2% just keep on getting richer and richer while the bottom 98% poorer?

My family on my mother side is from Sweden and many still live there. They have a similar system that you talk about but the care is not better. The preventative maintenance is better but for anything major it is not, most of them come here and pay cash for care. My Aunt lived in London, she got cancer, there was a few places here that specialize in it but she couldn't afford to come here and pay for it, she used their socialized care and all they did was let her die comfortably, she died two years later. She tried everything to get back here to get some proper care from a specialized place that focuses on certain ailments. She kept telling us how hard it was to get in with a doctor and that they flat out refused to go above and beyond to try and help her. She was 46 when she passed. I here the same stories from family and friends in other countries.

 

[nealtw]

This went from a discussion to political and it should stop there are forums for that and this is not one.

 

[slownsteady]

stop watching Fox so called news, your panties will untwist within a year or two and you will be a happier person.

So true. It seems their entire business plan is to make people angry.