no power in the ceiling wires

I installed a new ceiling fan with all the breakers off. when I turned on the switch i heard a pop sound.
I tried to put the old ceiling light back and it came on for a little but then it went off. I used by non contact voltage detector and there does not seem to be any power in the ceiling wires (black, white, red, copper) or at the switch. there is power at the outlet below the switch.

I checked the fuse box and turned that off on. the room has power at the outlets but the ceiling does not seem to have power. the wires don't show any signs of being burnt. should I try replacing the light switch?
the receptacle has 2 sets of wires coming in and very crowded hard to determine what is going where.

any thoughts what happened and how to fix?

Hi Justme007,

The Pop! sound is concerning. Did it Pop! at the circuit breaker? At the switch? Ceiling box? Was there smoke or odor?

The fact that the old and new lights are giving problems, I would consider a bad connection at a wire connector. (Or bad bulbs) If you're using twist-on (sometimes called Wire Nuts), there's a chance that the conductor got nicked while stripping, went unnoticed and snapped off when the connector was twisted. You won't know because the connector holds the insulation, too.

Also inspect the wires at the switch and at the ceiling light. Look carefully at where the cables enter the box to be certain none are worn bare.




If I read correctly, your sniffer tells you that you have power at the switch, but not the lamp.
A non-contact sniffer isn't reliable to test for proper voltage. It could be reading electron movement in the neutral from something else on the same circuit. Ideally, you will test across the line and neutral for proper voltage.
Also note that if the neutral is open, the sniffer will still alert on the line side (aka Hot Leg)

Your best diagnostic work will be performed with a volt-ohm meter. But, lacking one of those we can try the below method, based on your mention of there being power at the switch but not the ceiling box:

An Easy Diagnostic of the Switch-
Ensure that the circuit breaker is off
Remove the two wires from the switch.
Connect them together with a twist-on wire connector (such as Wire Nut)
Turn on the circuit breaker.
If the lamp lights well, the switch is indeed bad.

If the lamp does not light, it is NOT a guarantee that voltage isn't present. You need a volt-ohm meter for those tests.

Work Safely. You'll figure it out

I hope this helps,
Paul

there was a pop noise at the ceiling wires. none of the wires appear to be burnt. I was doing some searching at it might be this electrical arcing perhaps a wire touch something like another wire or ground.

I don't have a multimeter only a non contact voltage detector. there does not seem to be any power going into ceiling and the light switch.
the outlet below the light switch works.

trying to figure out where the problem lies. thinking of replacing the switch and hope the power restores.

any thoughts?

Maybe a GFCI breaker, if a backyard handyman installed it?

First off if you are attempting any kind of DIY home electrical work you need a multi meter. You can get one at harbor freight starting as low as 7 bucks but I would recommend stepping up to the 17 or 20 dollar one. Similar models you can get on Amazon for low cost. I wouldn’t recommend going much higher than 240 volts with any of these. They might not be super accurate on ohms and stuff but 99% of what you will use it for is confirming 120V or not.



After you have one you need to spend a bit of time maybe an hour reading the booklet that comes with it so you know how to set it correctly for what you will be testing.



Once you have the proper meter you can start at the main panel and work your way to the light or fan at the other end if needed. Say you show power at the switch and the switch output shows open and close when you flip the switch you know it is working. Then you repeat it with the wires in the ceiling and if they don’t show the same you know the wire running up there is broken.



Keep in mind the power can originate at the switch or at the ceiling and they will be wired differently.



Trouble shooting is a fairly simple logical process and once you get the hang of it, it is pretty straight forward.



Buy the meter once you have one you will wonder why you didn’t have one years ago.

I'd also disconnect the ceiling light. You could have pinched or wired it wrong

Such "popping" noise makes AFCI circuit breakers quite appealing!

I would have guessed that a bad light fixture caused the pop, but you said there is no power. Basically, without being there, I'd randomly think that something broke or came apart.

Go with what Bud16415 said at #5. The meter will help you very much. (And if you get one that reads Direct Current, you can use it on cars, televisions, computers, power supplies, etc.)

justme007 said:

I checked the fuse box and turned that off on. the room has power at the outlets but the ceiling does not seem to have power.

Click to expand...

The ceiling light and receptacles in the room may not be on the same circuit.
I would highly suggest that you check the breakers again. Many brands are difficult to tell if the breaker trips. When resetting a breaker push the breaker firmly with pressure to the "off" position first, then to the "on" position. If you do not push it to the "off" position first and then to "on" it will not reset. A "pop" would indicate to me it was a dead short which more than likely tripped a breaker. The breaker may not be marked correctly so you may be trying to reset the wrong breaker. I would also suggest that you test every breaker to see if any are tripped by taking hold of the handle with your fingers and gently wiggling the breaker back and forth (very little force). Each breaker should have a little bit of "play" in it but a tripped breaker will have far more play the one that is not tripped. You may find that a different breaker tripped or that you have not reset the breaker properly. After you double check your breakers I would look for every GFCI receptacle in the house no matter it's location and reset every one. They should be tested monthly anyway so this is your chance to do that.

will buy a multimeter today.

1. will test the continuity at the switch likely will replace
2. will test the wires at the switch and ceiling to determine if there
is power coming in
3. will test power at the fuse box switch
4. will reset any GFCI outlets

any thoughts on the plan above and what if I cannot detect the power?

justme007 said:

will buy a multimeter today.

1. will test the continuity at the switch likely will replace
2. will test the wires at the switch and ceiling to determine if there
is power coming in
3. will test power at the fuse box switch
4. will reset any GFCI outlets

any thoughts on the plan above and what if I cannot detect the power?

Click to expand...

Let us know what you find with the above first. We can then suggest more from your findings.

P.S. "will test power at the fuse box switch" - it's a circuit breaker panel, with individual breakers. Unless you have screw in fuses and not breakers. Only correcting your terminology so if you research anything on the Net you will get more accurate results and cause less confusion in the below replies of this thread.

justme007 said:

will buy a multimeter today.

1. will test the continuity at the switch likely will replace
2. will test the wires at the switch and ceiling to determine if there
is power coming in
3. will test power at the fuse box switch
4. will reset any GFCI outlets

any thoughts on the plan above and what if I cannot detect the power?

Click to expand...

First to do it test the meter, both voltage and resistance. Test it before each use, and periodically during use.
Second to do is always wear eye protection. Safety glasses won't help protect your eyes from damage via an arc flash, but will keep melted metal from an arc or the end of a wire out of your eyes.

Your #1 on the list:
Test for continuity with power off and all wires disconnected (with the exception of the ground wire. It can stay.) Your earlier mention of the Pop sound makes it sound like the switch is functional

Your #2 on the list:
This might be hard to do if the switch box does not have a neutral in it or is not grounded, which is common in older homes.
You may have to find a nearby neutral and make an extension jumper to reach the meter at the switch. (Plug an extension cord in a nearby receptacle outlet and use that neutral.)

Your #3 on the list:
If power is at the switch is OK, there's no need to test here.
Think about if you really want to go inside the load center. Work very carefully when the cover is off of the load center. Remember that the wires going into the main circuit breaker stay energized when the breaker is in the Off position.

Not On Your List:
Test to find out if the neutral wire at the ceiling light is good. It's a prime suspect.
Your #4 on the list:
That's a good plan to do. I recommend testing GFI and GFCI monthly. Minimally test every 3 months. It is also very important to cycle your circuit breakers from On to Off to On at least once a year. Every six months is better.

i used the multimeter hooking one probe to ground and the other to the red and black wires separately. at the switch and at the ceiling.
was getting 4v and 10v readings which seemed odd.

I then replaced the dimmer switch with a standard single pole paddle switch. this time I was able to see 120-123v readings on the black wire at both locations. power to the wires finally restored so I installed the fan and it now works!

couple of follow up questions:
1. in this room the hot wire is black whereas in another room the hot wire is red. is that okay?
2. i left the black wire in the ceiling capped and taped as well as the ground wire from the ceiling fan bracket not connected to anything. is that okay?
3. the paddle switch is backware meaning i flip it down to turn on and flip up to turn off. I thought it did not matter which terminal the hot and netural wires went on a single pole switch.

I'm certainly not an electrician, but it seems you have your wiring backwards. Then again, without pictures posted, it is difficult to really absorb what you had, and what you did to correct this issue.

justme007 said:

i used the multimeter hooking one probe to ground and the other to the red and black wires separately. at the switch and at the ceiling.
was getting 4v and 10v readings which seemed odd.

I then replaced the dimmer switch with a standard single pole paddle switch. this time I was able to see 120-123v readings on the black wire at both locations. power to the wires finally restored so I installed the fan and it now works!

couple of follow up questions:
1. in this room the hot wire is black whereas in another room the hot wire is red. is that okay?
2. i left the black wire in the ceiling capped and taped as well as the ground wire from the ceiling fan bracket not connected to anything. is that okay?
3. the paddle switch is backware meaning i flip it down to turn on and flip up to turn off. I thought it did not matter which terminal the hot and netural wires went on a single pole switch.

Click to expand...

Troubleshooting and investigation are a little like a court of law. They ask the person testifying to tell (The Truth) (The whole Truth) and (Nothing but the Truth) those are 3 different things. Today is the first time we heard of a dimmer and that could have been a big piece of needed information because a dimmer used for an electric light is a different thing than a speed control for an electric ceiling fan.



Its important to be as detailed as possible when explaining a problem and in most cases photos do help with the stuff that may be omitted accidentally.

justme007 said:

I then replaced the dimmer switch with a standard single pole paddle switch. this time I was able to see 120-123v readings on the black wire at both locations. power to the wires finally restored so I installed the fan and it now works!

couple of follow up questions:
1. in this room the hot wire is black whereas in another room the hot wire is red. is that okay?
2. i left the black wire in the ceiling capped and taped as well as the ground wire from the ceiling fan bracket not connected to anything. is that okay?
3. the paddle switch is backware meaning i flip it down to turn on and flip up to turn off. I thought it did not matter which terminal the hot and netural wires went on a single pole switch.

Click to expand...

I didn't see any mention of a dimmer switch either in the original post. Got to give all details; the same as if you went to your doctor and told your doctor you don't feel good and left it at that without giving any details. It will take much more trial and error along with guessing for the doctor to figure out what is wrong with you. When I would go to a homeowner that is having issues with their electrical I would ask them many questions to help me narrow down the problem.

#1 - yes, it is possible that a hot wire can be either a black or red depending. I say depending because there are a lot of reasons why and it would take a long time to list all of the scenarios.

#2 - I don't know why you would just tape off a wire, not knowing why. Also, not connecting a ground is not such a good idea if ground wire and ground system are present.

#3 - Why you would mount a single pole switch upside down thinking this would solve an issue I don't understand your logic with this. A single pole switch does not care what wire goes to what screw. Usually hot to one screw and load to the other. A neutral wire is not used on a single pole switch. You may be thinking that since it is a single pole switch and there is a white wire then the white wire is neutral. Not so. Not all white wires a neutral. On a single pole switch if one wire is white then it is probably a switch loop. Research "switch loop" and you will better understand.

I suggest that if you are going to do some wiring in your home in the future it is best that you get a book such as Black and Decker complete home wiring or the like. BD books are excellent at explaining home wiring and the logic behind it. It will give you a good head start and help correct your terminology. We are here to help you as needed but it would help you to read up on some things also.