# lifting the sags...



## shan2themax (Mar 2, 2008)

OK... so I have gotten out of jacking up the house (because of sagging floors) for months now... My back  is now healed..... the weather is getting better..... so, I need to get this done so that I can get going with the 409859847681758124 other projects I seem to be coming up with... lol...
My question is this.... after I dig holes under the house (to put cement for the jacks to stand on).... what kind of cement do I need?  can I just use quickrete or something like that? and this will be over an approximate 35 foot span.(longwise of the house)... so how should the jacks be spaced? and ... does the jack need to be put directly under a joist or can it be between 2 joists?  ( I know I have to use 4X6 or something similar to put above these jacks)  and lastly... once I get it level..... is it safe to leave the jacks or would i be better off using cinderblocks?   

You guys are invaluable to me....  I appreciate all the info....  (just wish I could answer a few myself... lol)

and for the kicker.... how am I attatching a 4x6 to the joists?  ( I just showed how dumb I can be sometimes)


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## shan2themax (Mar 3, 2008)

bumb.... :-}


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## handyguys (Mar 3, 2008)

shan2themax said:


> OK... so I have gotten out of jacking up the house (because of sagging floors) for months now... My back  is now healed..... the weather is getting better..... so, I need to get this done so that I can get going with the 409859847681758124 other projects I seem to be coming up with... lol...
> My question is this.... after I dig holes under the house (to put cement for the jacks to stand on).... what kind of cement do I need?  can I just use quickrete or something like that? and this will be over an approximate 35 foot span.(longwise of the house)... so how should the jacks be spaced? and ... does the jack need to be put directly under a joist or can it be between 2 joists?  ( I know I have to use 4X6 or something similar to put above these jacks)  and lastly... once I get it level..... is it safe to leave the jacks or would i be better off using cinderblocks?
> 
> You guys are invaluable to me....  I appreciate all the info....  (just wish I could answer a few myself... lol)
> ...



First you need to determine WHY the floors have sagged. Repair the cause. jacking sagging joists and propping them up will only be a band aid on a broken arm. 

Likely culprit is a rotted sill. The joists either sit on or are attached to the sill. Rot is likely caused by water, termites or carpenter ants.

fixing a rotted sill will involve some jacking but also a fair amount of carpentry. The steps are too numerous and too involved to post.

So, determine the cause first and then post back for recommendations. Just jacking and supporting your joists is NOT likely the proper fix.


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## shan2themax (Mar 3, 2008)

The cause is gutters that were never taken care of and rainwater going underneath the house, the sills and joist still look brand new, have no signs of termites or water damage or anything like that.... I am getting ready to replace the gutters and some fascia... then onto the sagging/bouncing floors.


Also,  when the house was built (1979) there was nothing put under the load bearing wall for support.... from back of the house to the front is about 28-30 feet.... but again.. the wood looks good, doesnt sound hollow.... screwdriver doesnt go through any of the areas that I have tested... one of the two previous owners at some point put some cinderblocks and 2x4's under the house in two places.... but there are only two spots for a 35 foot run


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## glennjanie (Mar 3, 2008)

Hello Shan:
I would not use cement footers to jack from, just a piece of 2 X 6 or 8 to keep the jack from sinking into the dirt. Concrete blocks should be put on cement footers to hold the floor in place once it is level. The footers may be Quickreet, even mixed in the hole if you like and have enough space. 
I'm trusting there is a double wood beam down the center of the house. You will need a footer and concrete blocks about every 6' to support the house.
The dirt for the footer will need to be dug down to undisturbed earth and place approximately 8" thick concrete to support the concrete blocks. Do some measuring and work backward, making the top of the concrete work out so 3or 4 concrete blocks will fill the space to the beam. Just get the top of the concrete level and 'loose-lay' the concrete blocks (without mortar) and remember the blocks are only 7 5/8" tall. Top each block pier with a piece of tin or aluminum to repel the  termites. Let it hang over 2" all around and it will help block off mice too. 
There should be a jack near each place you plan to use a pier. Block it up to reach the 4 X 6, put the beam on top of them and jack it up *slowly* like about 1/4" at each jack until they are all up to the level you want. A metal plate will keep the jack from sinking into the 4 X 6.
Glenn


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## shan2themax (Mar 3, 2008)

glennjanie said:


> Hello Shan:
> I would not use cement footers to jack from, just a piece of 2 X 6 or 8 to keep the jack from sinking into the dirt. Concrete blocks should be put on cement footers to hold the floor in place once it is level. The footers may be Quickreet, even mixed in the hole if you like and have enough space.
> I'm trusting there is a double wood beam down the center of the house. You will need a footer and concrete blocks about every 6' to support the house.
> 
> Glenn




Glenn,
  I dont rememberthere being anything... but then again.. I havent been under the house in several months... so.... I work the next 5 or 6 days at both jobs... so ... as soon as I get the oppurtunity to take a peak under there I will... and I will try to take some pictures too..... if there isnt a double wood beam.... does that change what I need to do?


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## glennjanie (Mar 4, 2008)

Hey Shan:
Yes, that would change the approach completely. But I'll bet you have the double under there, its just not properly supported.
Glenn


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## shan2themax (Mar 4, 2008)

glennjanie said:


> Hey Shan:
> Yes, that would change the approach completely. But I'll bet you have the double under there, its just not properly supported.
> Glenn



So, I crawled partially under the house and attempted to take a picture of the other side of the underneath.... I did find what looked to be a beam... it is about 18 inches past where 2 2x8ish meet in the center of the house..... problem one.... I dont think I fit on that side..... I will try when I have more time.... (I crawled under there with my scrubs on...lol) but... since there are two seperate joists....... would it be better to support on both sides of the main ac return and run?  there is bounce in the floor also..... so... same fix or something new?

http://picasaweb.google.com/shan2themax/03032008/photo#5174005804366834754   sorry cant get it on the pages............


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## handyguys (Mar 5, 2008)

Tight space. I have done a lot of digging in situation like this. Sometimes from the outside other times on my belly with a shovel with no handle. No good answers.


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## shan2themax (Mar 7, 2008)

bump   bump


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## shan2themax (Jun 8, 2009)

ok, so... I am very much red-faced   (or purple as it is here) to admit that this thread is almost 18 months old... and I have not done anything about this yet...................  you knwo what they say about good intentions.... So, I have driven myself crazy over this... and after the inspector thing fell through last week.... I have decided that I am going to pay someone to go under here and do this so that I can move on with things inside..... so, how much would I expect to pay someone theoretically speaking of course, if there was no more invovled than digging holes for concrete, concrete, cinderblock, flashing (to decrease the chance for mice and termites) 4x4 or 6x6, and the jacks and of course labor?  I know what I would like to pay... and what I am hesitantly willing to pay... but.. what is fair... and as a refresher, it is in a crawlspace, and where the center of the house is is on the other side of the ac ductwork, there is no plastic under the house (maybe I should add that in the price???? ideas???)  and yes I realize these are ballparks..... but ballparks allow me to think more clearly... lol


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## glennjanie (Jun 9, 2009)

Hello Shan:
Yes, you should add the plastic; it is the probable reason for the musty smell.
The job should be completed for less than $1,000.
Glenn


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## shan2themax (Jun 10, 2009)

I never thought to ask what type of a professional would do this kind of work.... I called one construction company and one foundation specialist... neither of them were willing to do something like that.....

I dont live far from some amish families..... I guess that is a thought I didnt think of... (just saw commercial with amish families in it.... lol)


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## glennjanie (Jun 11, 2009)

Hello Shan:
The Amish are master craftsmen and will do a super job for you. However, don't think they will do it as a mission assignment; they expect to be paid well.
Glenn


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## shan2themax (Jun 11, 2009)

Im all for paying for a good job.... it is fear of the bad ones that makes me leary.... yes, i think I have trust issues.


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