# Drywall Joints.



## load (Jan 28, 2015)

Which is easier, Wall board up but need to make it closer to the floor. Vertical installed. Want to run horizontial strips 8inch for filler.  Do I want to butt joint or butt and recessed side for easier mudding Thanks


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## bud16415 (Jan 28, 2015)

My ceilings are over 8 foot just under 9 foot. When I did mine I like the sheets vertical and leave the space at the bottom to fill in with pieces I cut off making the upper section. When I get an edge piece that has the contour I use that and tape and feather out the butt joint side. I use the mesh tape. 

There are many different ways to do it that&#8217;s just works best for me. I guess I could have used longer sheets and not had to work with the joints. But working alone 8 footers are about my limit.


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

Best to do ceiling first in case the room is out of squarte that hides it, easier to fill. For beginers it is easier to stand the up just buy 10 ft sheets. Have a look at the foot jack for lifting them into place. Have you framed in any exposed concrete foundation walls?


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## mako1 (Jan 28, 2015)

When I have walls over 8' I use a 54" sheet on the top and a 48" sheet at the bottom running horizontally .All you have is 1 factory joint in the center and very easy to finish at that height.


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## slownsteady (Jan 28, 2015)

mako1 said:


> When I have walls over 8' I use a 54" sheet on the top and a 48" sheet at the bottom running horizontally .All you have is 1 factory joint in the center and very easy to finish at that height.



54" wide? Where do you find those?


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> 54" wide? Where do you find those?



A real drywall supplier has things that HD have not heard of. And they will deliver it to the room where it will be used.


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## slownsteady (Jan 28, 2015)

I always try to use a building supply company especially because they deliver to where i need them. But I've never seen 54" drywall. Is it special order?


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

It's been around for years but lumber yards seldom carry it. New construction always uses a more specialized supplier. Same is true for all the trades.


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## bud16415 (Jan 28, 2015)

If you are doing a ceiling by all means do it first. I agree with Neal it&#8217;s the easier way to make a tight looking corner and also the wall sheets being below it will help hold it up. 

I have done the splice piece once and it worked really good and if I was stripped down to the studs I think I would run sheets across and do the splice at the end joints. 

There is a company that makes the part but here is the DIY version. 

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> If you are doing a ceiling by all means do it first. I agree with Neal it&#8217;s the easier way to make a tight looking corner and also the wall sheets being below it will help hold it up.
> 
> I have done the splice piece once and it worked really good and if I was stripped down to the studs I think I would run sheets across and do the splice at the end joints.
> 
> ...



A freind of mine tried this and found the screw would pull thru the drywall before it would bend into place. He never thought of wetting it like you would when bending it in a curve.


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## Sparky617 (Jan 28, 2015)

60" drywall is fairly common around here for 9 and 10 foot ceilings.  You won't find it at the home center but a drywall supply house will have it.  If you're doing 9' ceilings you use one 5' wide and one 4' wide.  For 10' ceilings use two 5's.  I haven't seen 54" wide sheets which would be 4' 6" wide, not saying they don't exist I just haven't seen them.  I don't work in the trades so there is a lot of stuff out there I haven't seen.

If you're hanging sheetrock on stud walls IMHO and in the pros opinion it is better than hang it horizontally.  IF all your studs line up perfectly and you land on a stud in the center of it with the sheets vertically go ahead and go vertical.  Or if you have a narrow wall and one sheet covers it go vertical.  However, in real life you may find that your studs aren't perfectly spaced and cutting the factory tapered edge off is never my first choice.  It isn't a big deal to shorten a piece on the 4 or 5 foot side to line up with a stud.  Going horizontal allows you to stagger the butt joints which makes them less noticeable than a single joint from floor to ceiling.

If you can handle it working horizontally with 10's or 12's depending on the room dimensions can sometimes eliminate the butt joints.


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

Sparky, makes a good point, standing them up requires that the layout of the studs is perfect.


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## load (Jan 28, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Sparky, makes a good point, standing them up requires that the layout of the studs is perfect.


 I guess that's why pros make the money would have done things different.  Just used 1/4 over existing plaster.  Plaster and lathe in an 100 yr old house.  Ran a level across bottom of drywall and cut then I cut some strips of drywall for the bottom. My mudding leaves something to be desired but I think it will work out,  Thanks for the input.  Next time will ask first.


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## slownsteady (Jan 28, 2015)

I see that horizontal layout a lot, and it always puzzles me. More seams and more butt ends to work with. I usually see the one long horz. seam across the wall. 
That plywood trick still has me scratching my head.....


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2015)

But joints just need to taper out wider to make them look good. In new construction, they order for each room and get sheet up to 16 or 18 ft and you seldem see many but joints and they do popcorn spay on the ceiling cheaper than trying to get a perfect job

Laying plywood on it's side for outside sheeting is the preferred method with offset joints, provides a stronger wall, but we have never been called for turning the odd sheet the other way. We are required to have a vent hole somewhere in every cavity in outside sheeting, the space between the upper and lower sheets gives us that.


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## mako1 (Jan 28, 2015)

Sparky617 said:


> 60" drywall is fairly common around here for 9 and 10 foot ceilings. You won't find it at the home center but a drywall supply house will have it. If you're doing 9' ceilings you use one 5' wide and one 4' wide. For 10' ceilings use two 5's. I haven't seen 54" wide sheets which would be 4' 6" wide, not saying they don't exist I just haven't seen them. I don't work in the trades so there is a lot of stuff out there I haven't seen.
> 
> If you're hanging sheetrock on stud walls IMHO and in the pros opinion it is better than hang it horizontally. IF all your studs line up perfectly and you land on a stud in the center of it with the sheets vertically go ahead and go vertical. Or if you have a narrow wall and one sheet covers it go vertical. However, in real life you may find that your studs aren't perfectly spaced and cutting the factory tapered edge off is never my first choice. It isn't a big deal to shorten a piece on the 4 or 5 foot side to line up with a stud. Going horizontal allows you to stagger the butt joints which makes them less noticeable than a single joint from floor to ceiling.
> 
> If you can handle it working horizontally with 10's or 12's depending on the room dimensions can sometimes eliminate the butt joints.


 
I am a remodeling contractor,not a sheetrock contractor but hang some drywall several times a week.sometimes whole houses.I have never seen 60" wide drywall but hear it is available on special order with a minimum of one pallet..I buy 54" drywall form a local lumber yard on a regular basis.It is also available at the local Home Depot and Menard's stores.
 Anytime you can hang board horizontally and have one factory seam down the middle at an easy height to finish you are obviously better off.


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## mako1 (Jan 28, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> I see that horizontal layout a lot, and it always puzzles me. More seams and more butt ends to work with. I usually see the one long horz. seam across the wall.
> That plywood trick still has me scratching my head.....


yes,One horizontal seam with a tapered edge down the middle at a easy height to finish.In place of a vertical seam every 4' all the way down the wall.


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## slownsteady (Jan 28, 2015)

Hard to argue with the pros. But I'm a homeowner without a crew, so too long and/ or too wide...........

I guess i only notice the bad ones when I see those horz. seams, but I see them too often. I like the idea of working at a comfortable level,, though.


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## bud16415 (Jan 29, 2015)

nealtw said:


> A freind of mine tried this and found the screw would pull thru the drywall before it would bend into place. He never thought of wetting it like you would when bending it in a curve.




 When we did the joiner strips we attached the one side solid to the already hung sheet and then attached the side that could cause you problems with screws pulling thru. Its the same problem you get when trying to get any first screw on a wall or ceiling where the sheet has to deform a little because of the framing being out or when adding a layer over old plaster or such. Drywall board is pretty strong when you look at the total number of screws or nails holding it but its quite weak when you are trying to bend it with just a single screw. 

  The way we did it and it worked for us was take it slow and work several screws down together and do that end of the sheet before the rest of the sheet allowing the sheet hump out just a little. Doing ceilings and irregular surfaces and using props as I dont have a lift, I have many times used a small square of wood with a hole thru it for a screw or even a strip of wood with a couple holes to draw the sheet up tight first then get as many screws in as I can and then remove the strip and screw it there. I know its a little time consuming and as a DIYer I dont care about time as much as a pro might and also I have found getting those edges down and dead flush save me more time later with mudding. 

  I have never tried water except a failed attempt when I built the archway last year. I ended up doing that with slitting the back side. Worked much better. Drywall is funny stuff it will bend a lot but it wont bend fast. If you leave a trimming leaning against the wall or across saw horses over night the next morning it will have one heck of a bend set into it.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

That makes sence, I didn't see what he did, he just told me about it.


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## bud16415 (Jan 29, 2015)

nealtw said:


> That makes sence, I didn't see what he did, he just told me about it.





 The conversation got me thinking and now that I have all my drywall done I come up with an idea to try. Haha. 

  I think before I do anymore ceilings or do any joining strips I will make 3 or 4 of this new tool I just invented. I have 3 holes for pull down screws and 6 larger holes to screw thru to hold the sheet so you can remove and replace the other 3 screws. 

  Anyone doing drywall and want to try making one can let us know if it helps. 

  From this day forward it&#8217;s to be called the &#8220;Drywall Buddy&#8221; after its inventor.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

BTW. That curved ceiling, 1/4" drywall times 2 or 3. They lean them against a wall after weting the backside. It bends as the back expands and it bends pretty fast. Your rig might work but it will never fly with out an engine..:banana:


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## Sparky617 (Jan 29, 2015)

mako1 said:


> I am a remodeling contractor,not a sheetrock contractor but hang some drywall several times a week.sometimes whole houses.I have never seen 60" wide drywall but hear it is available on special order with a minimum of one pallet..I buy 54" drywall form a local lumber yard on a regular basis.It is also available at the local Home Depot and Menard's stores.
> Anytime you can hang board horizontally and have one factory seam down the middle at an easy height to finish you are obviously better off.



Interesting.  In my own house with 9' ceilings they installed 1 60" piece at the top and 1 48" piece at the bottom.  9 and 10 foot ceilings are very common here so maybe the local drywall distributor keeps it on hand due to demand.  If the demand is there the distributor would have no reason to make you buy it by the pallet load if you don't need a full pallet.


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## mako1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Sparky617 said:


> Interesting. In my own house with 9' ceilings they installed 1 60" piece at the top and 1 48" piece at the bottom. 9 and 10 foot ceilings are very common here so maybe the local drywall distributor keeps it on hand due to demand. If the demand is there the distributor would have no reason to make you buy it by the pallet load if you don't need a full pallet.


I understand what you are saying.It's just not used or needed in most parts of the country so not stocked.It's all a question of supply and demand.Why would I stock 60" drywall that takes up a lot of floor space to sell a few sheets a year?It is special order around here and not worth the cost for them to handle it unless buying a bunk.


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## bud16415 (Jan 29, 2015)

From a DIY, homeowner, one man band, old guy and lucky to have a pick-m-up truck type of person I find anything much over 4x8 is testing my limits. That&#8217;s what I see the vast majority of people coming here fall into that category or some parts of it. Last year I did more drywall than I had in 10 years and put 25 sheets up on ceilings and maybe 30 on 9&#8217; walls. I thought about renting or buying a lift renting was a problem as the rental would have stretched out over a month and I couldn&#8217;t see buying one for that few sheets and then trying to sell it. Looking back the only thing I maybe could have done different was buy 10 footers and cut them for my 9&#8217; walls but the seams all turned out good the other way. Bigger than 4x8 on the ceilings I know would have killed me alone.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

Hey Bud, do you have a "standard" drywall prop? Do you put one together when needed, or do you keep one handy? if it works well, maybe you could share it.


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## bud16415 (Jan 29, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Hey Bud, do you have a "standard" drywall prop? Do you put one together when needed, or do you keep one handy? if it works well, maybe you could share it.



 I dont know if I took any photos last time or not I will have to look. Basically because my ceilings are 9 I made it in the shape of a T with the leg going to the floor two 8 pieces held together with a couple screws. That way I could back the screws out to adjust the height. I had a couple gussets at the top to support the T connection. You build 2 of these. If I have a helper thats fairly strong I carry in the sheet and set it on top of two 6 step ladders that have a towel folded up on the top and sit the sheet about where it needs to go up. Each guy grabs a prop and lift the sheet up and get it close to the ceiling but just a little loose. Shimmy it over and snug it up by kicking in the bottom of the prop against the floor a  bit tighter and then take the ladders out. One guy stands under the sheet holding both props and the other guy goes up the ladder and can bump the sheet tighter if it needs it. Then you kick both props in tight and go up and start running screws or driving nails. As a kid all we had was nails and you used a special  hammer with a serrated face that was crowned. The crown let you not tear the paper and the serrations poked little holes that helped the mud stick. The spot then was about a half dollar size to fill. In ceilings you always put two nails together about 3 inches apart on your spacing and one nail on walls. 

  This last time I was working with grandpa and he was a little shaky on the lifting part so I would put the sheet on the two ladders and yell at him when I was ready for the props and he would kick them in as I was holding the sheet up. He showed up and forgot his hearing aids one day and he cant see too good. I yelled props and he was fumbling around and taking his time and the sheet wasnt getting lighter. He finally puts the first prop in with my fingers between the prop and the drywall and I yell you got my fingers and he says hold on Ill get the other one and goes to my other hand and pinches it as well. Now Im stuck but the sheet isnt heavy and I look down and hes handing me the drill. 

  After that sheet we had a little meeting.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

I saw a guy with some crazy ideas. He was a local handyman, he said he took his first job with out any idea how to do it. He came in with a bench about 6 ft long 16" high with full length step on one side and bunch of old 2x4s. and the usual tee but it slipped in tha base that had four coaster wheel and was adjustable for height.

He screwed a 2x4 to the wall about 3/4" down from the ceiling, he leaned 2  2x4s against that on each had a block in the middle on the top about half way down. He set a sheet of dry wall on those sloped 2x4s above the blocks. Then he set the bench about 3 ft from the wall and set his tee thing in the center of the room and he grabbed a string that was attached to it and and hooked that to his belt.
In a flash he had the sheet against the ceiling while he climbed the bench and he did a quick turn around which pulled the tee thing into reach and it was up and stable.
For the center sheet he had a length of 3/4 plywood with a 2x4 attached off set and screwed that to the floor joists 4 ft from the first.
He was as quick as most pros.


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## bud16415 (Jan 29, 2015)

Yep sometimes not knowing is the best way to figure out a better way.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

nealtw said:


> I saw a guy with some crazy ideas. He was a local handyman, he said he took his first job with out any idea how to do it. He came in with a bench about 6 ft long 16" high with full length step on one side and bunch of old 2x4s. and the usual tee but it slipped in tha base that had four coaster wheel and was adjustable for height.
> 
> He screwed a 2x4 to the wall about 3/4" down from the ceiling, he leaned 2  2x4s against that on each had a block in the middle on the top about half way down. He set a sheet of dry wall on those sloped 2x4s above the blocks. Then he set the bench about 3 ft from the wall and set his tee thing in the center of the room and he grabbed a string that was attached to it and and hooked that to his belt.
> In a flash he had the sheet against the ceiling while he climbed the bench and he did a quick turn around which pulled the tee thing into reach and it was up and stable.
> ...



I'd like to see the video of that set-up.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> I'd like to see the video of that set-up.



:agree:That would have been to easy.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

@Bud: Yep. That sounds about right. The picture is good too.

Last time, i rented a hoist because I had a couple of 12' sheets, but i can see the point if you are doing a project over a few days. 8' sheets are about as far as i would go with the props though.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

I found his cousin in the UK
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PEeF_FGiJI[/ame]


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

Here's a good one.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0UHi62look[/ame]


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## mako1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Just my thoughts after watching the videos.The English chap with his clips puts the board up at the first joist out from the corner.What if he need to adjust it to get the corner square.Could have hung a few sheets while he was meesing with the do dads .
The second video was really usless imo.Nail a 2x up make the little spinners,have your wife help to plumb the cutouts
Whats wrong with a tape and cutting them out before you hang the sheet?After he hung the full sheet he had about a half sheet to finish the ceiling.Those little swivel things he made would be useless there .There is no room for them.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

mako1 said:


> Just my thoughts after watching the videos.The English chap with his clips puts the board up at the first joist out from the corner.What if he need to adjust it to get the corner square.Could have hung a few sheets while he was meesing with the do dads .
> The second video was really usless imo.Nail a 2x up make the little spinners,have your wife help to plumb the cutouts
> Whats wrong with a tape and cutting them out before you hang the sheet?After he hung the full sheet he had about a half sheet to finish the ceiling.Those little swivel things he made would be useless there .There is no room for them.



*Hey Bud, do you have a "standard" drywall prop? Do you put one together when needed, or do you keep one handy? if it works well, maybe you could share it.*

I think suggestions would be welcome.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

I was hoping to generate some...so far, it's working.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

I think marking the boxes on the floor is a pretty good idea, whether your wife has to help or not. You could always rig a little thing to hang your plumb bob in the box, so you could mark it yourself. I also like the temp ledgerboard attached to the wall. I'm thinking a couple of door hinges would make that a better lever.


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2015)

10 guys will have 10 different ideas. Each idea is a tool, the more it is kicked around puts more tools in everyone bag.
I am always impressed with two man crew that throw up a sheet with about six nails and move across the ceiling in minutes and come back and screw it up. Most of the outfits up here will have another two man crew that come in and tape, another guy only does the beads. two different guys for two coats of fill and then two sanders come in with their lights.
A few years ago we were using the garage next door to store some tools and had lawn chairs there for our coffee break and we were sitting there. Two guy came out of the house and asked us to move our stuff as they were going to do a finish coat. By the time we had our stuff out, about 15 minutes, they were done and left.


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## slownsteady (Jan 29, 2015)

Kind of cool, but kind of sad. I wonder if they ever switch jobs, just to keep it interesting...


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## bud16415 (Jan 30, 2015)

The British chap I liked his idea. To me it looked like the eyelets that clamped to the sheet had a pretty big hole compared to the size of the hook. That would allow you to shimmy the sheet around maybe an inch after it was swung up and I could see that being close enough. Is the tool for a pro to replace a lift? I would say no. Is it easier to get into a basement and something someone could afford to buy? I would think yes. One of the things I liked about it was he looked like a normal old dude and it wasn&#8217;t a slick presentation, he was fumbling around just about what I would do trying to hook both hooks. I&#8217;m not sure why he made it two parts instead of connecting them together to avoid measurement stuff. I wouldn&#8217;t call it useless. 

The guy with his DIY swing blocks I didn&#8217;t think was all that bad from a DIY point of view. I do a lot of jigging stuff up like that because I normally don&#8217;t have a helper. When I built the deck last fall out of used materials I sometimes had a half a dozen C clamps in play holding one end of something and bending it straight when I shot in a few screws in. Nothing wrong with jigging a job if it saves your back. 

The swing ups wouldn&#8217;t have worked for me as a lot of my ceilings were not new construction and I had strips and or plaster behind my sheets. But then again I could see face mounting something with screws to do the same thing. 

Sometimes a thread like this points out the difference between DIY and the way it would be done by a pro.


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## nealtw (Jan 30, 2015)

The other thought I had was, this channel they put up to help with sound proofing go across the joists and changes the direction of the drywall. Most rooms are 10, 12, or 14 feet wide. Could be done with full sheets and no but joints. 14 ft would be close to 100 lbs but can be done with two people.
The other thing that everyone misses is that the room is out of square and the walls arn't straight. If one sheet gets put up a little crooked it will screw up the the other offset joints.
If you are doing ceiling first measure out 48 1/4" at each end of the room and snap a chaulk line and then measure from the line to the wall in several places. Then you can fit them tight to a straight wall or to the line. If you are cutout for light fixture before putting the up and you are using the line take the measurement from the line.


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