# Befuddled over a fireplace!



## missdoc77 (Dec 4, 2014)

I recently bought a house built in 1979.  It has a wood burning fireplace with gas starter in place.  The previous owner said he had the whole thing cleaned and inspected but can't remember who did it.  It looks very clean but my question concerns cracks in the floor of it.  It is a metal firebox with what I'm guessing is a refractory liner on the sides (made to look like brick).  The floor/bottom of the box looks like mortar.  Seems to me that it was maybe repaired at some point - mortar spread over what was existing.  BUT it is cracked.  On a side note they also clogged the end of the gas starter pipe with mortar!  I don't know anything about fireplaces other than what I've learned researching this issue but guessing that is bad.

Is the cracked mortar in the bottom something we can repair with refractory mortar or something we have to have done by a professional??  Do the cracks make it dangerous to operate?  Does the existing mortar need to be removed and redone?  What is best long-term and most cost-efficient?

Our goal is to remove the gas starter and install gas logs rather than use it to burn wood.  Any insight y'all can give would be helpful!!  Thank you!


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## havasu (Dec 4, 2014)

I'd recommend getting your own professional inspection. Fireboxes are nothing to play with.


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## missdoc77 (Dec 4, 2014)

Thank you... but I'd still like to know WHAT should be done to this thing.  Even if we call in a pro to do the job, I'd like to understand what is necessary and what isn't.  I am very much a DIY-er when I can do the job right but I know my limitations.  Simply attempting to educate myself so I don't get hosed by the "you're just a dumb girl" mentality of many pros I've encountered out there.    i.e. When they try to tell me I need a whole new firebox because they think I don't know any better...


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## JoeD (Dec 4, 2014)

Post some picture. Fireplaces I have seen usually have a fire brick as the base not mortar.


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## kok328 (Dec 4, 2014)

Is a steel plate an option for the base ?


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## bud16415 (Dec 5, 2014)

If you are going with gas logs I wouldn&#8217;t worry about it unless its falling in or something. The heat from gas logs is nothing against the bottom compared to a bank of coals. I&#8217;m not a fireplace expert that&#8217;s just my feeling on it.


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## missdoc77 (Jan 14, 2015)

I finally remembered to take some pics of the patch job done in our fireplace.  Again, this was prior to us buying the house and unfortunately the seller can't remember who did the work so I can't call them back in to correct it.  Seller said the grate they used in there had worn a hole in the refractory panel or whatever is in the bottom of the firebox so the chimney sweep patched it when he cleaned, etc.  That's all I know.  What do you guys think?  I have someone coming this afternoon for an estimate...  Since we had a couple trees taken down we've got a ton of firewood so may use it instead of buy gas logs.  Haven't decided yet.  I want to know that it's safe either way, though!


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## inspectorD (Jan 14, 2015)

Could you get an overall picture of the fireplace, it will put this in perspective a little better.
But those cracks should be fine as long as there is no combustible material underneath. If the bottom is steel, and the installer put refractory cement to fill a hole..it's no good. But is this was cement..and they put more cement over it, and it shrank.. should be no big deal.

Where does that pipe go?. If it is a gas or propane pipe, it will need to be removed before using firewood.
Which makes me wonder if this is even a rated firebox for wood in the first place.
Are there any model numbers or identifying labels anywhere?
Let us know what the pro thinks..


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## frodo (Jan 14, 2015)

we used copper tubing for years and years hooking up log lighters  in fire places


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

If in doubt cover the floor with fire brick or even cut them in half and you will be raising 1 1/4". If concrete get to hot it will explode little pockets out. Evertime I here of a sell who can't remember who done it, I think, He done it.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

Prevent accidental explosions: Fire features are often constructed with standard concrete masonry units, which contain aggregate that can overheat and explode, causing serious injury. I recommend installing a protective veneer of refractory fire brick grouted with fire clay.
I borrowed this from
http://www.concretenetwork.com/fire-pits/safety.html


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## missdoc77 (Jan 15, 2015)

inspectorD said:


> Could you get an overall picture of the fireplace, it will put this in perspective a little better.



Attaching a pic - not a great one but all I can get to at the moment - if that's any help at all.  



inspectorD said:


> But those cracks should be fine as long as there is no combustible material underneath. If the bottom is steel, and the installer put refractory cement to fill a hole..it's no good. But is this was cement..and they put more cement over it, and it shrank.. should be no big deal.



As I mentioned, this is a metal firebox, not masonry.  I do not know what is directly under the substance the patch was done with - but assuming and HOPING the refractory panels or whatever it was originally installed with is still there.  Don't know why it would've been removed and replaced with this substance, then called a patch.  ???



inspectorD said:


> Where does that pipe go?. If it is a gas or propane pipe, it will need to be removed before using firewood.
> Which makes me wonder if this is even a rated firebox for wood in the first place.
> Are there any model numbers or identifying labels anywhere?
> Let us know what the pro thinks..



The "pipe" is a gas starter - to ignite the wood.  It's obviously in poor condition but I was told it worked fine.  Easy to replace that.  It just screws on to the gas supply line coming out of the wall inside the fireplace.

Unfortunately my "pro" had to reschedule so not coming until tomorrow now.


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## bud16415 (Jan 15, 2015)

Burning wood in an open fireplace is great for the appeal of having a fire but in practicality will waste more heat than it will produce. The glass doors help a little but you still need to suck in combustion air someplace and unless you are going to tend the fire 24-7 when you let it go out you have to leave the damper open for several hours or in most peoples case overnight to keep the end of the fire from smoking the room. During that die down time it will also be sucking all the heat out of your house. 

If you like a fire just for having the fire then that&#8217;s fine and I wouldn&#8217;t worry about trying your fireplace out. when you clean it after a couple fires you can look at that patch to see if it changed. I don&#8217;t think it will. If you can get some kind of zero vent gas log insert that would be the way to go IMO. You would have a nice fire get some useful heat out of it be able to shut it off and go to bed without worries and have a backup heat source if ever needed. I don&#8217;t know if the gas line run to the log starter is big enough for a supply for a gas heat source but most likely it is. Something to check on. 

If your thermostat is in the same room the fire place will keep your furnace from coming on and the other rooms in the house will get cold.  

I know in Texas your heating needs are quite different than here in Pa. and on a cold night the fireplace might be all you would need. Around here at 15 below zero we just crank the heat and forget about building a fire.


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## slownsteady (Jan 16, 2015)

A little tapping on the base may tell you a lot. You'll figure out pretty quick if it sounds like solid brick/concrete or if it's a thin layer on top of something else. You will also find out if the cracks are the borders between loose pieces of mortar. You will probably still want a pro to give it the ok, but you'll have a better idea of the scope of the problem.


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## missdoc77 (Jan 20, 2015)

frodo said:


> dang that polished brass is fugly.
> 
> 
> put a tv in the fp hole,  use the screen doors to hide it when not watching.



Wow - Brass wasn't my choice however it isn't exactly a priority upgrade.  But don't you worry your little head over it, it's on the list of things to change when we have the money for it.  So thanks for your insulting remark.  Nothing better to do??

Thank you, everyone else, for your helpful responses!  The stinking fireplace guy stood us up a 2nd time so I'll be finding another company and maybe get them out to look at this thing eventually.  I think we've decided to install gas logs, though, so am not as worried about the cracks anymore.  Either way, would like to know!  I'll update whenever I get answers.


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## havasu (Jan 20, 2015)

My fireplace glass screen use to be the same bright polished brass. One can of high heat oil rubbed bronze spray paint saved me about $300. Just an idea.


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## nealtw (Jan 20, 2015)

Sand it down and paint the brass black.


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## bud16415 (Jan 20, 2015)

missdoc77 said:


> Wow - Brass wasn't my choice however it isn't exactly a priority upgrade.  But don't you worry your little head over it, it's on the list of things to change when we have the money for it.  So thanks for your insulting remark.  Nothing better to do??
> 
> Thank you, everyone else, for your helpful responses!  The stinking fireplace guy stood us up a 2nd time so I'll be finding another company and maybe get them out to look at this thing eventually.  I think we've decided to install gas logs, though, so am not as worried about the cracks anymore.  Either way, would like to know!  I'll update whenever I get answers.




 We always ask people to post photos and then someone will interject a comment totally off topic and sometimes insensitive to the OP. Its one thing when its one of the core guys to another but we should try and be more sensitive to newcomers that I would hope would find things here warm and welcoming along with informative. The thing that grows a forum is the one out of 100 people that come here and asks a question get an answer and think next time I have a question I want to remember to go back there. 
  As to any help you received you are very welcome from what I may have contributed. 

  Gas logs are ok I just priced some of these gas unites and was really surprised they are a little pricy I thought. There are also units that are called inserts that combine the good parts of a fireplace and the workings of a wood stove. I havent looked into most of this in a long time but before you do anything check out all the options for gas inserts and also sealed wood inserts.


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## slownsteady (Jan 22, 2015)

We all learn from other folks' projects. Let us know how it turns out.


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## nealtw (Jan 22, 2015)

I still think the floor should be covered with fire brick or all that dug out and repaired


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