# How to do this double sink with Studor vent for center island?



## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 5, 2018)

Is this the right configuration (plus garbage disposal)? The drain pipe is 1.5", does that mean they all must be 1.5" pipes? 

Does it matter what height the Studor vent is at? Must it be above a certain level?

Should I have a cleanout under the sink? Is that too much?


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## nealtw (Feb 5, 2018)

The trap is screwed together and is a clean out
I that picture the garburator goes on the left the vent wants to be high up close to the counter so a full sink would not put water up to the top. And it should not leak, don't push you luck.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 5, 2018)

nealtw said:


> The trap is screwed together and is a clean out
> I that picture the garburator goes on the left the vent wants to be high up close to the counter so a full sink would not put water up to the top. And it should not leak, don't push you luck.



Basically, I should put the Studor Vent as high as it will go? Minimum of 4" above the trap?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 5, 2018)

How do I connect this Dual Outlet Valve to CPVC?

Do I just slide it over or do I need CPVC cement as well?


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## nealtw (Feb 6, 2018)

Just like that no glue.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 6, 2018)

How high should I put the water supply valves? Close to the bottom of the cabinet? In the middle?


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## Sparky617 (Feb 6, 2018)

I would put them up to at least a foot from the underside of the counters.  Do you have the faucet already?  Does it come with attached hoses or do you need to add them?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 6, 2018)

Sparky617 said:


> I would put them up to at least a foot from the underside of the counters.  Do you have the faucet already?  Does it come with attached hoses or do you need to add them?



Do you mean a foot or closer to the countertop?

I haven't bought the faucet yet. Was gonna do that later today.


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## Sparky617 (Feb 6, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Do you mean a foot or closer to the countertop?
> 
> I haven't bought the faucet yet. Was gonna do that later today.



I would bring them up off the bottom of the cabinet probably about 18-20 inches.  That way you'll use a connection hose that is about a foot long to connect the faucet to the valves.


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## slownsteady (Feb 10, 2018)

Faucet may have supply tubes already attached, so buying the faucet first may help you decide where to put the stop valves. half way up sounds about right in any case, You want them to be accessible without too much fuss. I would have left the rough out of the pipes a good bit further up. it's going to be hard to attach anything there, and if it is not perfect, you won't see the problem until it becomes a bigger problem.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 19, 2018)

I have been reading that the AAV valve must be 6" above flood level. How is that even possible in a center island when it has to go in a sink cabinet?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 22, 2018)

Do the plumbing parts under the sink use regular PVC cement?

In every picture I see, it seems like they're held together by PVC that screws on to each other.


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## zannej (Feb 22, 2018)

From what I understand the AAV must be a minimum of 4 inches above the trap weir. Generally you try to get it as high as you can where it can still have good airflow and you can access it to change it out should it fail. 
Keep in mind that you still need to have the trap arm be at least two pipe diameters in length before it goes vertical.
https://www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/how-to-plumb-an-island-sink/view-all/
AAVs are not allowed in some jurisdictions, so you might want to check with your local codes to find out if they are allowed.

Short answer: No, the tailpiece and P-trap do not use glue.
Generally a kitchen sink will use 1-1/2" PVC with slip joints (I think that is what they are called) or ABS fittings. For a double sink without a garbage disposal you might use something like this. The tailpipe, J-bend and so forth that make up the P-trap all fit together with the non-glued joints (this is so you can take apart the P-trap to clean out obstructions should it become clogged). After the trap arm, you would then use a trap adapter to convert from slip joint to non-threaded glue-on type.
That would glue on to a short run of PVC and connect to an 1-1/2 sanitary tee. On top would be another length of PVC with the AAV screwed in on the top and the bottom would go to a wye.
Although, it's possible that if the trap arm is the right thickness, it might not need the adapter. I'd have to ask someone who is familiar with that. ALL of the sinks in my house are S-trapped so I don't have a real-life version to look at that is correctly plumbed.
Does that help?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 22, 2018)

zannej said:


> From what I understand the AAV must be a minimum of 4 inches above the trap weir. Generally you try to get it as high as you can where it can still have good airflow and you can access it to change it out should it fail.
> Keep in mind that you still need to have the trap arm be at least two pipe diameters in length before it goes vertical.
> https://www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/how-to-plumb-an-island-sink/view-all/
> AAVs are not allowed in some jurisdictions, so you might want to check with your local codes to find out if they are allowed.
> ...



Yes, that did help. Thank you.

I am confused why you say the final Tee goes down into a wye. Wouldn't it go down into the floor?

How much space do you think the AAV needs to breathe up top?

The P-Trap I bought seems to have glue fittings, unfortunately.


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## zannej (Feb 22, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Yes, that did help. Thank you.
> 
> I am confused why you say the final Tee goes down into a wye. Wouldn't it go down into the floor?
> 
> ...



The final tee goes down into a wye below the floor. It connects to the main sewer line with a wye. Depending on where the sewer line is, it could be a regular wye or if it is a straight line to the sewer pipe, you'd use either a combo wye or a wye and 1/8 bend. You can not use a sanitary tee on it's back to connect to the main sewer line.

Maybe you can save the trap that you got for another project and get the appropriate kind that you twist together-- it can save you a lot of grief later on if you do it that way. I don't know if it is a code rule to use that type or not.

You would need at least enough room to get your hands on the AAV and pull it up-- it all depends on how much space you have under the sink. I would probably leave at least 3" to 6" from the top of the AAV and the underside of the sink/counter (depending on placement). I personally have never used AAVs yet because they were prohibited by my state's plumbing code  (up until the code was reverted to IPC 2012).


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 22, 2018)

zannej said:


> The final tee goes down into a wye below the floor. It connects to the main sewer line with a wye. Depending on where the sewer line is, it could be a regular wye or if it is a straight line to the sewer pipe, you'd use either a combo wye or a wye and 1/8 bend. You can not use a sanitary tee on it's back to connect to the main sewer line.
> 
> Maybe you can save the trap that you got for another project and get the appropriate kind that you twist together-- it can save you a lot of grief later on if you do it that way. I don't know if it is a code rule to use that type or not.
> 
> You would need at least enough room to get your hands on the AAV and pull it up-- it all depends on how much space you have under the sink. I would probably leave at least 3" to 6" from the top of the AAV and the underside of the sink/counter (depending on placement). I personally have never used AAVs yet because they were prohibited by my state's plumbing code  (up until the code was reverted to IPC 2012).



Makes sense, only question is...

What good would this trap do for me on a future project if it's no good on this one? Lol.


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## zannej (Feb 23, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Makes sense, only question is...
> 
> What good would this trap do for me on a future project if it's no good on this one? Lol.


Good point. LOL. Maybe you can return the parts for a refund if you still have a receipt-- or you can use it for an art project or try to make a weird PVC figurine or something. Probably better to just return the stuff. I mentioned keeping it bc I am a hoarder. LOL. 

But, IMO, you should definitely get the slip joint type p-trap for your kitchen sink in case food gets clogged in there that is larger than the little cleanout on the bottom of the glued trap and you need to clear it out. You can take the trap apart and use a side sprayer to spray out the inside of the bend with some force. This also allows you to make adjustments with the height and angles of the plumbing in case you make mistakes when trying to connect it in the first place. If you ever need to change out your garbage disposal to one that is higher or lower, you can use the slip joints to adjust the trap up or down to accommodate it.

On a side note, I found the reference to 6" and an AAV. AAV's terminating in an attic must be at least 6" above the insulation. http://www.summerville-home-inspect...ector-discusses-plumbing-traps-arms-and-vents

I will also add to keep in mind that short run 90 degree elbows are not allowed for use in drains-- you need long sweeps if you have any 90s. Not sure if you will have any 90s, but just thought I'd mention it.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 24, 2018)

zannej said:


> Good point. LOL. Maybe you can return the parts for a refund if you still have a receipt-- or you can use it for an art project or try to make a weird PVC figurine or something. Probably better to just return the stuff. I mentioned keeping it bc I am a hoarder. LOL.
> 
> But, IMO, you should definitely get the slip joint type p-trap for your kitchen sink in case food gets clogged in there that is larger than the little cleanout on the bottom of the glued trap and you need to clear it out. You can take the trap apart and use a side sprayer to spray out the inside of the bend with some force. This also allows you to make adjustments with the height and angles of the plumbing in case you make mistakes when trying to connect it in the first place. If you ever need to change out your garbage disposal to one that is higher or lower, you can use the slip joints to adjust the trap up or down to accommodate it.
> 
> ...



Okay.

I bought this garbage disposal installation kit. Comes with everything I need. Only problem is there are no clean out.

The P-Trap they sell with slip joints do not have cleanouts. Only the glue ones do.

Maybe I could add a clean out below the AAV?

Do slip joints require thread tape?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 24, 2018)

Do I use primer with this PVC cement?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 24, 2018)

What piece do I use to attach this trap arm to a regular 1.5" PVC pipe?


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## zannej (Feb 25, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Okay.
> 
> I bought this garbage disposal installation kit. Comes with everything I need. Only problem is there are no clean out.
> 
> ...


You do not need the cleanout on the slip joint traps because you are  able to take the trap apart to clean it. If you get something large  lodged in it, you can unscrew it (with a bucket underneath to catch  water and crud), run a bottle brush through it, and rinse it with water  from a side sprayer or use an outdoor hose to spray it out. While the  trap is apart, you can run a snake/auger through the pipes under the  AAV.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Do slip joints require thread tape?


No. Slip joints do not require thread tape and some manufacturers recommend against using it. They come with rubber & plastic gaskets/washers to help them seal.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Do I use primer with this PVC cement?


I'm not sure on the cement and primer. What do the instructions on the  cement bottle say? 
I believe I have used the clear pvc without a primer,  but I don't know if that is the proper way to do it. 
If an inspector is  going to look at things, they like to see the purple primer. But, best  thing to do is defer to instructions. They should say on the bottle  whether or not it requires primer. You might need a magnifying glass to  read the small print though-- I can never read that tiny print without  reading glasses.
Here is a link to the product on Oatey's official page along with a video on how to properly apply the cement. https://www.oatey.com/2374310/Product/Oatey-Medium-Clear-PVC-Cement



farmerjohn1324 said:


> What piece do I use to attach this trap arm to a regular 1.5" PVC pipe?


I believe you can use the trap adapter I previously linked. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-Pipe-1-1-2-in-Dia-PVC-Trap-Adapter-Fitting/3132641 (Assuming you have 1-1/2" there). They sell them at Home Depot as well https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-1-2-in-PVC-DWV-Hub-x-SJ-Trap-Adapter-C48017HD112/100345781.
The threaded end would attach to the horizontal run on the end to attach the hub and then the other side of the hub/adapter would glue on to the rest. I'm not sure if it would fit inside of the sanitary tee or if it would need a small run of PVC in between. I would have to compare the pieces. If you are in doubt, you can post a question about the products on the HomeDepot page (for any products that are offered there) and people can answer specific questions-- although sometimes the laymen are incorrect. Or you can look for the parts in the store and compare them and make sure things fit together.


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## slownsteady (Mar 1, 2018)

I'm not really sure how a person can lay out their kitchen island and buy all the parts and do all the labor without already knowing the answers to some of these questions. Especially since the the island is completely reliant on an AAV. How could you NOT KNOW how to install one at this point in the project?

Sorry for the rant. I'm just exasperated reading this.


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## zannej (Mar 1, 2018)

I think different people have a different process. Some like to "wing it" and then others like to research first.
There are renovation shows where the people start a project, do the layout, and then buy the parts before they really research how things are supposed to go because they didn't think about it beforehand and then when it comes time to do it, they realize they aren't sure.

But, the frustration is understandable.


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## slownsteady (Mar 1, 2018)

What choice does FJ have now? If the AAV was impossible to use, the island would be wasted. Or he would have to put it in and pray that nothing went wrong. Soooo much better to understand it before you commit time and money.

maybe that what makes me slow............but steady?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 4, 2018)

This seems like it should work, but it's not.

Trap arm, slip joint nut and washer that came with the set, and male adapter.

There is not enough area that is screwed on to keep this together. Do I need a nut with a longer threaded area?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 4, 2018)

slownsteady said:


> I'm not really sure how a person can lay out their kitchen island and buy all the parts and do all the labor without already knowing the answers to some of these questions. Especially since the the island is completely reliant on an AAV. How could you NOT KNOW how to install one at this point in the project?
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I'm just exasperated reading this.



Because I'm flipping this house. This is my first one. If I do it again, I'll plan better next time.


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## zannej (Mar 5, 2018)

Does the threaded part slip over the tailpipe? Have you tried a smaller gasket-- one of the plastic ones instead of rubber? 

Bump the gasket further up the pipe and see if that helps?

I was hoping this would work. Not sure why it isn't fitting together properly. Hoping you can make it work.

I wish I could be of more help, but since I haven't taken on the repairs in my home yet and my sinks are s-trapped, I haven't tried to fit this together. I know my friend was able to make it work when he installed an AAV in his bathroom sink. Maybe I can get him to take a picture for me and try to remember what he did.

Did the trap adapter you got come with a twist on part? Like this? https://www.supply.com/shop?nid=487...MIiMe2ic_U2QIViZ9-Ch1CLgXsEAYYASABEgIlnPD_BwE

Also, in this video it looks like there is a PVC slip joint and adapter connecting to ABS and an AAV is on top. Not sure if this helps at all bc he didn't connect the ABS part to the adapter in the video.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-rxogXPLKk[/ame]


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 5, 2018)

zannej said:


> Does the threaded part slip over the tailpipe? Have you tried a smaller gasket-- one of the plastic ones instead of rubber?
> 
> Bump the gasket further up the pipe and see if that helps?
> 
> ...



Pretty sure the problem is that I bought a male adapter rather than a trap adapter.


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## zannej (Mar 5, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Pretty sure the problem is that I bought a male adapter rather than a trap adapter.


Ok. I might have referred you to the wrong product to begin with. I'm going to need to find the right parts when I fix the s-traps in my house, so it's something to keep in mind. The Nibco one I linked should be the right one-- I think the big box stores do carry those though.

Please let me know if it works when you get the trap adapter.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 5, 2018)

zannej said:


> Ok. I might have referred you to the wrong product to begin with. I'm going to need to find the right parts when I fix the s-traps in my house, so it's something to keep in mind. The Nibco one I linked should be the right one-- I think the big box stores do carry those though.
> 
> Please let me know if it works when you get the trap adapter.



No it was my fault. I grabbed the wrong thing.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 5, 2018)

Here it is...


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## nealtw (Mar 5, 2018)

That looks like it will work, the dishwasher water line could be coiled up and tied with a twist tie and tucked in the back.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 5, 2018)

nealtw said:


> That looks like it will work, the dishwasher water line could be coiled up and tied with a twist tie and tucked in the back.



I could do that. It's gonna be "fun" fishing all that wire through the flexible conduit tomorrow. I bought a nylon fish tape because I don't think the steel would be flexible enough.


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## nealtw (Mar 5, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I could do that. It's gonna be "fun" fishing all that wire through the flexible conduit tomorrow. I bought a nylon fish tape because I don't think the steel would be flexible enough.


I have never had that task, On a bigger job that I was on they used air or vacuum to run a mouse and string thru the pipe.
When they plumb new houses with conduit to the rood they install a string as they install the pipe.


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## zannej (Mar 6, 2018)

Looks good! There is room to unscrew the AAV to replace it in case of a problem in the future, right?
Nylon fishing line should work, hopefully.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 6, 2018)

zannej said:


> Looks good! There is room to unscrew the AAV to replace it in case of a problem in the future, right?
> Nylon fishing line should work, hopefully.



Yes, there is room.

If nylon tape won't work, I don't know what will.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 6, 2018)

Why do my garbage disposal always leak from the horizontal piece? I just screw that metal piece with 2 screws? This happened on this one, and mine at home yesterday.

Edit: Apparently I'm missing a gasket on both.


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## nealtw (Mar 6, 2018)

Is that the proper discharge pipe in the machine or just a straight pipe?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 7, 2018)

nealtw said:


> Is that the proper discharge pipe in the machine or just a straight pipe?



It came with a kit specifically for garbage disposals.

I'm pretty sure it's a rubber gasket that's missing. I must have missed it.


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## zannej (Mar 7, 2018)

Yeah, some garbage disposals have a straight pipe like that and there is a gasket that needs to go there. 
Hopefully you can get it fixed quickly and easily.

Looks better than the mess under my sink. I had the pipe connecting to the s-trap come apart so I secured it with a rubberband. I'll be fixing it when I renovate the plumbing system.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 7, 2018)

zannej said:


> Yeah, some garbage disposals have a straight pipe like that and there is a gasket that needs to go there.
> Hopefully you can get it fixed quickly and easily.
> 
> Looks better than the mess under my sink. I had the pipe connecting to the s-trap come apart so I secured it with a rubberband. I'll be fixing it when I renovate the plumbing system.



Maybe a flexible coupling would work for you.

Those things are pretty cool sometimes.


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## zannej (Mar 9, 2018)

I think my problem is that I don't have the right gasket on the pipe so it's not holding tight enough, but it doesn't leak.


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