# Basement waterproofing



## cfd1984 (Nov 3, 2018)

I have standing water on basement floor every time it rains.  one room can get ankle deep while the other rooms just have noticeable moister on the floor.  My plan is to cut the concrete floor 18" away from the wall all the way around my basement, dig a trench and install 4" perforated pipe next to the footer, drill weep holes in all the blocks and joints,  fill  trench with gravel, install the miradrain, and pour the concrete back.  I have approximately 160' of trenching to do and plan on installing 2 sump pits on opposite corners of the house.  Does this sound correct?  How I see it in my mind is the 4" pipe will connect into one pit, make a long run around the perimeter of the house and connect into the 2nd sump pit?  I have never done this before, but was quoted $19K for a BS system that sits onto of the footer.  I think I can do this myself for $2500 and my time.  

Thanks


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> I have standing water on basement floor every time it rains.  one room can get ankle deep while the other rooms just have noticeable moister on the floor.  My plan is to cut the concrete floor 18" away from the wall all the way around my basement, dig a trench and install 4" perforated pipe next to the footer, drill weep holes in all the blocks and joints,  fill  trench with gravel, install the miradrain, and pour the concrete back.  I have approximately 160' of trenching to do and plan on installing 2 sump pits on opposite corners of the house.  Does this sound correct?  How I see it in my mind is the 4" pipe will connect into one pit, make a long run around the perimeter of the house and connect into the 2nd sump pit?  I have never done this before, but was quoted $19K for a BS system that sits onto of the footer.  I think I can do this myself for $2500 and my time.
> 
> Thanks


You have the right idea don't drill the joints just the block, the block above will always be damp so that should be covered with a path for water to get to the drain.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 3, 2018)

nice!  what type of pipe did you use?  most seem to say use the black abs pipe, but it seems like the green perforated pvc pipe would be stronger and easier to get the proper pitch.


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> nice!  what type of pipe did you use?  most seem to say use the black abs pipe, but it seems like the green perforated pvc pipe would be stronger and easier to get the proper pitch.


That's not my house I just borrowed the picture,  The cheap pipe that comes in a roll is good enough, it's strong enough if you don't walk on it and it goes around corners,. If it is a sealed system you don't have to worry about slope, water can find it's way thru the gravel, the pipe is just a hole in the gravel. When you dig for the sump, go a little big cover the surrounding dirt in fabric and back fill the sump with gravel and drill some small holes in the sump. So 40 years from now and the pipe is plugged water can take the gravel route for any 15 years.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 3, 2018)

Thanks so much!  I think I'm going to dig the first pit in the room that is most affected and get the pump installed to see if just a sump pump/pit alone will help my situation.  Worst case if I need to install the perimeter system maybe the pit will make the job less of a mess, as some of the water should migrate to the pit.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> Thanks so much!  I think I'm going to dig the first pit in the room that is most affected and get the pump installed to see if just a sump pump/pit alone will help my situation.  Worst case if I need to install the perimeter system maybe the pit will make the job less of a mess, as some of the water should migrate to the pit.


Two videos, one is set op for a sealed system with the pipe outside  and the other covered the wall with plastic.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

Thanks, I was going to use the mira drain product that covers the top of the footer and 90's up the wall.  Concrete will be finished over that.  I wanted to cut corners and save myself some work by just doing part of the basement, but after watching the first video It would be smart to run the whole perimeter.  I have peeling paint, discolored walls and all the cracks in the floor get damp.  Thanks for your help .


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## joecaption (Nov 4, 2018)

And why no mention of why there's water there in the first place?
Whenever possible it's best to address this issue from the outside and prevent it from getting in the wall instead of  trying to deal with it once the damage is done.
Working gutters with long enough downspouts to get the water out away from the foundation.
No wood mulch against the foundation holding in moisture.
No flower bed borders forming ponds.
Outside of foundation sealed and any cracks or voids repaired.


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## 68bucks (Nov 4, 2018)

In our first house we had similar problems. I dug around the foundation from the outside and put in a perimeter tile. I cut a hole in the floor inside and installed a plastic sump crock and routed the perimeter tile under the footer and into the crock.  I drilled a hole in the basement wall and ran the pump line out through that and out into the yard about 30' from the house and just made a french drain there. It would have been a lot more work doing the inside method like you are considering. My basement floors were 6"+ thick and it was hard enough to get the sump cut in. I can't imagine having to do 160' of cutting and breaking out concrete.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

68bucks said:


> In our first house we had similar problems. I dug around the foundation from the outside and put in a perimeter tile. I cut a hole in the floor inside and installed a plastic sump crock and routed the perimeter tile under the footer and into the crock.  I drilled a hole in the basement wall and ran the pump line out through that and out into the yard about 30' from the house and just made a french drain there. It would have been a lot more work doing the inside method like you are considering. My basement floors were 6"+ thick and it was hard enough to get the sump cut in. I can't imagine having to do 160' of cutting and breaking out concrete.


Outside is the best but sometimes with depth and distance to property line can be difficult as well driveways, patios and porches.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

I would assume a high water table. When i was roughing in the basment plumbing i had an area opened up about 4’ wide by 20’ long and as soon as I would pump the water out it was full again. I have 4 downspouts on my house and three of them are tied in and run to the street.  The othere is off the back porch and drains straight into a flower bed, but its 10’ away from the foundation.  Here are some pictures of what i am dealing with.   First and second picture is my neighbors yard sloping right into my house, but that side of the basement does not get standing water, just some dampness where the block meets the floor.   3rd pic is my backyard and to the right of the porch/patio is where i get standing water in the basement.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

Here is you biggest problem , where is the bottom of the wood inside in relation to the dirt level out side.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

Damp proofing stops at 8" below the top of the foundation and that is the top of the soil.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

im assuming you are asking about the sill plate that sits ontop of the concrete block??  If you zoom in on the pic the wood sits just above that glass block window. I would say at least 8” below the top of the window well


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> im assuming you are asking about the sill plate that sits ontop of the concrete block??  If you zoom in on the pic the wood sits just above that glass block window. I would say at least 8” below the top of the window well


You need to come up with a plan to lower the level of the dirt 18 to 24 inches, before you do anything else . Besides the ground water that is working thru the block the stucco has a drain plain behind it and any water stuck in there will be soaking the sheeting and the sill plate and the rim joist.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

What do people do in these situations?  How am i going to lower that?  I still don’t understand how the water issue isn’t that bad in that room but the room on the opposite side of the house gets standing water in ot.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> What do people do in these situations?  How am i going to lower that?  I still don’t understand how the water issue isn’t that bad in that room but the room on the opposite side of the house gets standing water in ot.



This might be a separate issue but it a big issue just the same. Some where between your house and your property line you build some kind of wall with drainage behind it.




How high is the dirt at the problem area.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

What a nightmare. The problem areas grading is a flower bed and it’s definitely not as high as the other side. I have no clue why the water is so high in that room.  I think im going to tackle this interior drain over the next couple weeks, then move outside and do some hardscaping between my house and he neighbors


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> What a nightmare. The problem areas grading is a flower bed and it’s definitely not as high as the other side. I have no clue why the water is so high in that room.  I think im going to tackle this interior drain over the next couple weeks, then move outside and do some hardscaping between my house and he neighbors


Check all around for the black damp proofing. the dirt should not be much above that, if any above. Where you have paint peeling, is that near the high soil level.
You may want to drill a few holes in the bottom of that wall to see if it is full of water. keep a wood plug handy.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

So here i have an interior block wall running perpendicular into the exterior block wall. The exterior wall keeps running to the right into another room. How does the black pipe get into the next room over?  Do you need to core drill through the footer on the interior wall and feed the pipe through?  Im assuming the black drain pipe does not need to be placed next to the interior walls???


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

I will do those suggestions tomorrow and let you know what I find out.  I also found this picture of when I was roughing in the bathroom.  I left this hole open for a week or so and the water filled up much higher but this is an example of the water issue under the house.  I would put a pump in it to dig and make connections and the water would fill right back up with in seconds.


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## nealtw (Nov 4, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> So here i have an interior block wall running perpendicular into the exterior block wall. The exterior wall keeps running to the right into another room. How does the black pipe get into the next room over?  Do you need to core drill through the footer on the interior wall and feed the pipe through?  Im assuming the black drain pipe does not need to be placed next to the interior walls???


That would be a good reason to go lower and under footing, plumbers do dig thru a footing when they have to so which ever is easiest to make work.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 4, 2018)

Ok. Thanks so much for your help and suggestions!!


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## Steve123 (Nov 5, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> im assuming you are asking about the sill plate that sits ontop of the concrete block??  If you zoom in on the pic the wood sits just above that glass block window. I would say at least 8” below the top of the window well



That's a problem (but a separate problem).    Code is that foundation wall extend to 6" ABOVE grade.   It helps to keep the sil plate and framing from rotting away.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 5, 2018)

Did some digging and this is what i found on the side of the house. Not sure if you can see anything feom these pictures.


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## nealtw (Nov 5, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> Did some digging and this is what i found on the side of the house. Not sure if you can see anything feom these pictures.








Notice that the window well as been added too before they raised the dirt level
I would expect to see waterproofing or damp proofing to start 6 to 8" below the top of the window.
Not sure what the lump on the left is, might have been put there for a brick ledge that was not used. I would not be surprised if the original ground level was the bottom of the window and this was some ones idea of solving a water problem.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 5, 2018)

I will ask my neighbor if he remebers it ever being different. Here is a picture of the ledge from the inside. The other picture is of the main room that floods. I busted a small hole in the floor and water was right under it.


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## nealtw (Nov 5, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> I will ask my neighbor if he remebers it ever being different. Here is a picture of the ledge from the inside. The other picture is of the main room that floods. I busted a small hole in the floor and water was right under it.


The block on the inside and out side, there must be load from above that a single thickness wall would not support by itself.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have 3 of them along that wall. I would guess that wall is 40’ long.   Above those blocks on the first floor are perpendicular walls that separate the bedrooms. None of the other basement walls have them. 

As far as the mira drain (dimple board) goes. Im guessing that is in place to not plug up the weep holes that are drilled in the blocks?  Do you need to worry about radon?  Do you put silicone on the wall seam or does it stay open?


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## inspectorD (Nov 5, 2018)

nealtw said:


> The block on the inside and out side, there must be load from above that a single thickness wall would not support by itself.


Those wall protrusions are there to help a block wall with support not from above, but for the strengh of the horizontal lenght of the wall. Sometimes inside and some on the outside help to prevent cracking longitudinally.
Also notice the extended metal window well that goes up. This was added to raise the dirt is my 2 cents.

Adding  some drainage at the exterior is the best solution.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 5, 2018)

Thanks for your imput!  I am going to be dojng both interior and some exterior work. After ripping out drywall and cutting studs and bottom plates out i dknt want to do this again!


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## Steve123 (Nov 6, 2018)

nealtw said:


> I would expect to see waterproofing or damp proofing to start 6 to 8" below the top of the window.



Damp proofing and water proofing are not the same.   Concrete and mortar are porous and moisture can transmit through it.   Damp proofing will prevent this, and is required by code.   But if some of the mortar joints are failing, its not going to stop water intrusion when the ground is saturated.


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## nealtw (Nov 6, 2018)

Steve123 said:


> Damp proofing and water proofing are not the same.   Concrete and mortar are porous and moisture can transmit through it.   Damp proofing will prevent this, and is required by code.   But if some of the mortar joints are failing, its not going to stop water intrusion when the ground is saturated.


It was only referred to because he is looking for the top of what ever he has when he digs outside . neither will do anything when you back fill above the bottom of the siding and framing.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 17, 2018)

Got the sump pump installed and tied into the downspout. Seems to be working great and is taking a lot longer to fill the pit up now that the pump has been installed for 48 hours. Picked up a roll of 100’ black pipe but not sure how to feen it though the footer.   The old drain tile ran through that hole in the footer.


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## nealtw (Nov 17, 2018)

go up and out and back down to the bigger pipe. Usually just go thru the ledger under the floor.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 17, 2018)

Im not sure I understand what you mean by up out and down?  Is that for the sump discharge pipe? If so I got that installed just fine. As far as going through the ledger...  How do I do that?


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## nealtw (Nov 17, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> Im not sure I understand what you mean by up out and down?  Is that for the sump discharge pipe? If so I got that installed just fine. As far as going through the ledger...  How do I do that?


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## cfd1984 (Nov 17, 2018)

Thanks. I got the sump pump installed and its tied into my downspout. What I cant figure out is how to get the corrugated pipe to run around the perimeter of my basement. When an interior wall meets the exterior wall how does the pipe go through the interior walls footer. In the picture that i attached it looks like they drilled through it to run the old clay tiles but the water is well below that hole. Im not sure how deep the footer goes uet because i havent ran a pump in the trench yet. Will i need to drill a new hole in the footer below the existing one?


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## nealtw (Nov 17, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> Thanks. I got the sump pump installed and its tied into my downspout. What I cant figure out is how to get the corrugated pipe to run around the perimeter of my basement. When an interior wall meets the exterior wall how does the pipe go through the interior walls footer. In the picture that i attached it looks like they drilled through it to run the old clay tiles but the water is well below that hole. Im not sure how deep the footer goes uet because i havent ran a pump in the trench yet. Will i need to drill a new hole in the footer below the existing one?


Have you dug out the other side of the footing, that pipe was placed there and they pour concrete around it.  You can't just use that whole? Plumbers often just jack hammer a slot thru the footing .


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## cfd1984 (Nov 18, 2018)

I have. Im usuing 4 inch Ads pipe and it wont fit through that hole. Im also thinking that the pipe needs to go a little lower where the actual water is collecting.


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2018)

cfd1984 said:


> I have. Im usuing 4 inch Ads pipe and it wont fit through that hole. Im also thinking that the pipe needs to go a little lower where the actual water is collecting.


I wouldn't worry about that water just fill the level with gravel then lay your pipe.  Your pipe doesn't have to go thru just butt your pipe up to it on both sides. 50 years ago we laid 12" clay tile with a but joint every 12" for this job.


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## cfd1984 (Nov 18, 2018)

ok thanks,  I got all the concrete busted out and now have the task of getting it to the dumpster in the driveway..  Slowly making progress, but there is already a huge difference now that the sump pump is in.


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