# why does my ground have current



## gavimobile

ground cable is passing current,

my diagnostics,

i have one of these screwdrivers which lights up from a electrical current. I have an empty fuse open on my fuse box, so i took a new cable (about 2 feet long). positive goes on the top of the fuse and negative goes on the bottom where a strip of metal where all the other negatives are going, ground is not connected on either side just for my test. when i test both sides of ground my screwdriver lights up. i turned off all the other fuses in the house and same thing. is this normal? i am positive both sides of the ground are not in tact with anything.
to prevent me from getting shocked from my refridgerator, i have currently disconnected all grounds till i solve this problem. negative is not showing any current.

brown = positive
blue = negetive
yellow/green = ground

tia
gavimobile


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## glennjanie

Welcome Gavimobile:

We speak of 'hot' wires, 'common' wires and 'ground' wires. Yet the power companies only run hot wires and a ground to our houses and businesses. Yet we know that electric current for these uses is called AC or alternating current; that means the power goes both ways or alternates direction.
Therefore, when power is traveling through the hot wire it is also traveling through the 'common' wire and the ground wire is typically connected to the same place as the common, so power also flows through the ground.
I can think of one exception. In hospitals we are required to have 'dedicated grounds' in some instances. These wires are not interconnected with any others but go directly to a seperate ground. Since they have nothing to do with the power or common wires we would not expect to find any active current in the dedicated ground.
I hope this hasn't added to your confusion but it is a lengthy subject and many still say we can't even prove the existence of electricity.
Glenn


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## Square Eye

I have no confidence in those screwdrivers that show voltage.


90% of the time, when I find a hot ground, someone has made a mistake while wiring an appliance or a receptacle for an appliance. One mistake on a 240v circuit can cause a hot ground. You need to get a good voltage meter with 2 wires and find the ground wire that's causing the problem. 

If your only evidence of a hot ground is a light on a screwdriver voltage tester, it could actually be inductance caused by the flow of current in the close proximity of the ground wires. It's entirely normal to get a very low voltage reading from Earth ground to the household grounding system. Another cause for low voltage readings on ground is the difference in potential  on the ground system caused by static electrical charges, improper grounding of household items.

Bottom line, ditch the screwdriver tester, get a real meter. Find the problem, if there is a problem, through the process of elimination. One ground wire at a time, then trace the source of the offender.


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## gavimobile

thanks guys for the reply,

maybe this will change your thinking.. There is 1 ground which is connected which does not have current. its pluged in to the outlet behind my refridgerator.

heres the whole story... when i moved in i had this problem, so as one of you said, when one wrong wire is in place it can cause this. this is why i redid ALL the electric in my house from scratch. the cables were well over 50 years old AT LEAST. i found tuna cans in my walls for central electric meeting points. anyways i added new cable insulation and new central boxes (meeting points). I dont think this is static electric which is running through my ground, because i get shocked when i dont have shoes on if i touch metal in my house. Also, I have tried turning off all fuses except for the test cable i pluged in for my test. even if all the fuses were off, my ground still passed current. even if it was some sort of static, then why doesnt the blue (negative) pass current on test? im thinking the plastic of the yellow/green cable is made differently from the blue cable. 

anyone willing to go over my setup with my 1 by one?
I have about 5 outlets and about 3 lightswitches, i have a 1 br house!

thanks
gavi

update: i got a multimeter, how do i do this?

correct me if im wrong
black wire to com
red wire to V

the highest voltage is 600 so i set it to this volt (found out to set highest ac volt from google)
" Set the meter for the highest range provided for AC Volts"

when i put black cable to negative (com)
and
red wire to positive (V)
it returns approx 235 for each fuse,
what am i supose to test?

gavi


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## gavimobile

i decided to attach a photo so you guys can see


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## Square Eye

If you have a metal water pipe in your working plumbing system, run a wire to that, scrape it clean and clamp wire to pipe. Water pipes will give you a true Earth ground. From there, one ground at a time, test for voltage between the pipe and the ground wires in your panel. The readings should be zero volts.

When you find the offending ground wire (voltage), trace it back to the source and correct the problem. 

I have to admit, I have no idea what the electrical code in your country is like. I'm not sure what your voltage should be or what colors are standard for hot, neutral and ground. I can only help with basic ground and voltage testing. Anyway, find the bad ground, Make sure the ground from the electrical service is good, There should be no voltage between the water pipes and the ground wires. 

Do you have a ground rod outside, actually buried in the ground with the home grounding system attached to it?


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## gavimobile

Square Eye said:


> If you have a metal water pipe in your working plumbing system, run a wire to that, scrape it clean and clamp wire to pipe. Water pipes will give you a true Earth ground. From there, one ground at a time, test for voltage between the pipe and the ground wires in your panel. The readings should be zero volts.
> 
> When you find the offending ground wire (voltage), trace it back to the source and correct the problem.
> 
> I have to admit, I have no idea what the electrical code in your country is like. I'm not sure what your voltage should be or what colors are standard for hot, neutral and ground. I can only help with basic ground and voltage testing. Anyway, find the bad ground, Make sure the ground from the electrical service is good, There should be no voltage between the water pipes and the ground wires.
> 
> Do you have a ground rod outside, actually buried in the ground with the home grounding system attached to it?



squareeye, thanks for the fast reply.... does this mean there is no point in testing without my ground to the waterpipe... I was already told to do this, but have not done so yet... That was my next step after i solved this, but maybe i just dug a big hole cause this was supose to be done first!
also if all my grounds are connected and all my electrical appliances are unpluged and my ground is returning 2 volts on my ground section is that normal? and will this go away once i do the main ground connection to my main water pipe outside?

thanks gavi


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## speedy petey

Square Eye said:


> If you have a metal water pipe in your working plumbing system, run a wire to that, scrape it clean and clamp wire to pipe. Water pipes will give you a true Earth ground.


This is NOT true in many cases. In some cases this advice is extremely dangerous.
A "true earth ground" is also NOT what he needs. He needs a ground bonded to the grounded conductor of the electrical system.
Voltage does NOT seek <earth> ground! It is seeking it's source.

Just because a water pipe is metallic does NOT mean it is a reliable ground source. 
In the US there are strong restrictions as to whether a water pipe can even be used as a ground. The main ones are that the water pipe MUST be in contact with the earth for at least 10' and it MUST already be used as a grounding electrode and that any "ground" wires connected to it are done so within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. 

I also do not know the codes over there, but I know the above advice is not safe.


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## gavimobile

speedy petey said:


> This is NOT true in many cases. In some cases this advice is extremely dangerous.
> A "true earth ground" is also NOT what he needs. He needs a ground bonded to the grounded conductor of the electrical system.
> Voltage does NOT seek <earth> ground! It is seeking it's source.
> 
> Just because a water pipe is metallic does NOT mean it is a reliable ground source.
> In the US there are strong restrictions as to whether a water pipe can even be used as a ground. The main ones are that the water pipe MUST be in contact with the earth for at least 10' and it MUST already be used as a grounding electrode and that any "ground" wires connected to it are done so within 5' of where the pipe enters the house.
> 
> I also do not know the codes over there, but I know the above advice is not safe.


speedy, i appreciate your concern, but i couldnt really care less if this is to code or not. this isny my house, i  am just renting... i would just like to not get a shock when i touch electical appliances when i am barefoot in my own home! my water pipe is much more than 10 feet long, and its underground! 
will this 2 volts disappear once i ground the ground to the waterpipe?
thanks
gavi


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## speedy petey

gavimobile said:


> speedy, i appreciate your concern, but i couldnt really care less if this is to code or not. this isny my house, i  am just renting...


WOW!   OK, real nice.
It's a good thing you are not in the US then. Messing with the electric in a place you are renting would not be legal.

Do they not have landlords in Israel???


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## gavimobile

speedy petey said:


> WOW!   OK, real nice.
> It's a good thing you are not in the US then. Messing with the electric in a place you are renting would not be legal.
> 
> Do they not have landlords in Israel???


lol, its really a long story..

i was paying about 1300 nis / 3.5 =$
she reduced me to 1000 nis cause she wants to sell the entier property. she said she is reducting my rent cause she couldnt care less to improving the place since the property is for sale.. thats where i come in. i have a landlord who i dont ever see. i just deposit her money once a month via transfer..

once i connect the ground to a metal pipe will the volate on my ground go away?

gavimobile


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## speedy petey

gavimobile said:


> once i connect the ground to a metal pipe will the volate on my ground go away?


Sure. Why not.


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## Square Eye

Just to clarify, since my post was so misunderstood lol... 

The wire from your water pipe was to be connected to one lead on the meter, the other meter lead was to check for voltage on each ground wire. I have no idea what you have as far as grounding, whether grounding rods or plumbing ground. But if you're being shocked when bare foot in your home, a water pipe ground is a good indicator of where the fault is in the grounding system. I never said connect the water pipe to your panel as a permanent ground.


Dangerous advice?  Try this one; 


> Originally posted by speedy petey
> "Sure. Why not."


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## speedy petey

Square, I was merely stating that a "water pipe" is not an automatic source of ground as far as the electrical system goes. EVEN if it is in contact with the earth. 
If it is not bonded to the electrical system then it serves NO purpose and will not give any sort of accurate reading no matter what you are trying to test.

And yes, if this ground is left in place it could very well be dangerous. It seems as if the OP does not care what he does as long as the final result is what he wants. Even in a place he rents. 
Oh well.






Square Eye said:


> Dangerous advice?  Try this one;


I guess I was also misunderstood. 
I was being sarcastic since my attempt at giving safe advice was being ignored. See the little rollie eyes thing?

Good luck with this guys.


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## Square Eye

Well speedy, what would you do? 
Why not help the guy out? 
Where would you start looking for the trouble? 
Why not *help* and leave the sarcasm alone when someone's asking for advice?


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## speedy petey

For one thing because I do sarcasm so well.   


I have NO idea AT ALL what the electrical systems are like in that part of the world, so I have no place giving advice on what he _should do_. 
I have some idea of things he _should not_ do, but that's about it.

Do you even know if this is 120/240v or 220V?


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## speedy petey

Scroll down to "I":
http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm

220v, 50Hz


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## Square Eye

Well... ok


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## gavimobile

any other helpful suggestions please???

i just want to know if 2V for a ground wire is normal


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## Square Eye

yep, that could be inductance. Could be anything. 2 volts shouldn't be shocking you though. By far, the best possible thing you could do, is to find a friend experienced with electrical.. Even better would be to get someone licensed to check your wiring. The things I suggested are merely a very basic test to see why you're getting shocked when you touch metal in your home. If you had found a ground wire that had full voltage or near full voltage, you would have been able to trace that circuit and fix the problem.

You still might consider going back through and checking the wire inside your junction boxes and in your outlet boxes for skinned, even tiny nicks on the wire's insulation where the wire touches the boxes. Check for screws that could have penetrated the insulation, check the wire at the point where it enters the boxes. It doesn't take much to become a big problem.


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## gavimobile

Square Eye said:


> If you had found a ground wire that had full voltage or near full voltage, you would have been able to trace that circuit and fix the problem.
> 
> You still might consider going back through and checking the wire inside your junction boxes and in your outlet boxes for skinned, even tiny nicks on the wire's insulation where the wire touches the boxes. Check for screws that could have penetrated the insulation, check the wire at the point where it enters the boxes. It doesn't take much to become a big problem.


square eyes thanks for your kind response,
someone mentioned that testing with a tester is silly cause its not relyable.. i purchased a 2 dollars tester, so im gona take his word on this. i got a multimeter! a few days ago i redid the electric in my entire house AGAIN. it seems my ground section is fine, untill something is pluged in to the outlets. meaning, if nthing is pluged in, its 2v, but when i plug something in the volts of ground jump max max max 70 volts. im gona grond my place properly then i do tests again


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## gavimobile

thank you all for your wonderful responses... i bought a ground cable today 6mm and connected it to a water pipe..  my problem is now solved... no more ~~shocks~~~

SOLVED


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## triple D

I have to go with Speedy Petey on this one. As a journeyman electrician myself, I can tell you that you have created a very dangerous situation. Your water pipe is not to be used as a neutral, and that is what you are doing when you connect 70 volts to it. There should be 3 wires serving a house in your country, much like our country; except the 3rd wire is a ground. Do you have any 120 volt appliances in your home? A 70 volt return is like an open neutral on a 120 volt device. None the less, the 3rd wire on your service should handle this need. You should look towards your serving ground from the power company, because it sounds like it is failing. What you have done by hooking the ground to your water pipe is dangerous because when that fails, your water pipes will become electrified. It's the thought of standing in the shower soaking wet when that problem reoccurs that should make you worry. A water pipe can only carry current to ground efficiently for so long before it becomes corroded and fails. The idea of hooking a ground to a water pipe is only a safety measure in case a ground fault occurs.

Be careful what advice you follow out here, and good luck, my friend....


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## gavimobile

triple D said:


> I have to go with Speedy Petey on this one. As a journeyman electrician myself, I can tell you that you have created a very dangerous situation. Your water pipe is not to be used as a neutral, and that is what you are doing when you connect 70 volts to it. There should be 3 wires serving a house in your country, much like our country; except the 3rd wire is a ground. Do you have any 120 volt appliances in your home? A 70 volt return is like an open neutral on a 120 volt device. None the less, the 3rd wire on your service should handle this need. You should look towards your serving ground from the power company, because it sounds like it is failing. What you have done by hooking the ground to your water pipe is dangerous because when that fails, your water pipes will become electrified. It's the thought of standing in the shower soaking wet when that problem reoccurs that should make you worry. A water pipe can only carry current to ground efficiently for so long before it becomes corroded and fails. The idea of hooking a ground to a water pipe is only a safety measure in case a ground fault occurs.
> 
> Be careful what advice you follow out here, and good luck, my friend....



tripple D, thanks for your kind response, because of the reason that the entire blocks water pipe might become electrified i made sure not to connect the ground there. when i said my post was solved, i had connected the ground to an old water pipe (with no water) of metal, which is cemeted into my wall. My ground doesnt recieve anymore than 1v. i no longer get shocks from touching applicances in my house so my problem is solved and nothing is failing. in regards to the cables, my country only has 2 cables comming in to the couse NOT 3. also the standard in my country is connecting the ground to the main water pipe where the meter is. I know this cause ive been told more than once, and i can see a 6mm ground cable connected near each and every water meter. I have left my ground where it is at the moment untill a friend of myn who is a certified technician ok's me to connect to the main water pipe like everyone else.
thanks
gavi
edited: no 120v applicanes


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## gavimobile

can the admin please remove any instance with the word "ekpc.com" in this thread.. im trying to keep away harvesters from my domain and i posted it at least once in this thread i believe when i uploaded a picture

thanks


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