# Identifying source of water infiltration in bsement



## Oldhouseowner (Apr 4, 2017)

Hi,


I am seeking some guidance on identifying the source of some water infiltration we are seeing in our basement. Here is a brief timeline/list of facts pertaining to the infiltration, which may or may not be helpful:

The infiltration is occurring in a storage room built out underneath the front porch of our 1927 home. The storage space is accessible only via a door in the basement. The walls and ceiling are concrete, with wood paneling along the walls.
This past winter we had an issue with water infiltration coming through a crack in the floor, near to one of the walls. We identified the cause as an overflowing rain barrel that resided just outside the wall at the spot where water was appearing; we emptied and removed the rain barrel, reconnected the gutter drain, and put down a couple of bags of pea gravel. This stopped the water infiltration and for several months we saw no water infiltration in the storage area.
Over the past couple of weeks, we have once again begun seeing water infiltration coming up through a crack in the concrete; this time however the water is coming through a *different* crack in the floor, further away from the wall and closer to the center of the storage room. The infiltration is very slow, and noticeable mostly after a rain storm. There is no drain in the storage room floor; it is simply concrete.
In terms of trying to determine the source/cause of this, I've tried to ascertain what has changed over the last month or so that might have led to this, and am honing in on a new sidewalk that was put in in front of our house last month. We have a slightly elevated front lawn with an approximately 18" stone wall across the front. There are three drainage pipes that lead from the lawn and open at the base of the wall. In the course of the installation of the new sidewalk, one of the drainage pipes--the one closest to the center of the house--was nearly completely sealed off. If you can imagine a line running from where the sealed drainage pipe is to the porch/storage area, it is nearly perfectly aligned with the location of the crack in the floor where we are now seeing water infiltration. My suspicion is that after a rain storm, water is backing up in the drainpipe towards the foundation of the home, where the increased water table pressure is leading to the infiltration.

I have attached two photos here--one showing an unblocked drain pipe, and one showing the pipe that has been sealed off.

My question is twofold: one, how likely is it that the sealed drainage pipe is indeed what is causing the infiltration in our storage room? And two, if that is not the likely culprit, what else might explain the recent appearance of water infiltration in the center of the floor underneath the porch? 

Thank in advance to everyone for the help.


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## nealtw (Apr 4, 2017)

The problem is that there should be a perimeter drain around the house below the level of the floor to move water away before it gets to those cracks.
You said you reconnected the downspout, perhaps if you do have a drain this water might be overloading the system.


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## Oldhouseowner (Apr 4, 2017)

Thanks for the response, neal. So you're thinking that the issue could be tied into the removal of the rain barrel--that the water that was being captured by it and is now overloading the drain? I hadn't considered that the rain barrel might be filling that function (I wasn't a fan of it anyway--it seemed to be a good breeding ground for mosquitos), but I could try reconnecting it and seeing if that helps resolve the issue.


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## slownsteady (Apr 4, 2017)

I would need more info to make a good guess. Are those drain holes connected to pipes under the front lawn? Or are they just weep holes in the stone wall? When you removed the rain barrel, what did you hook up the gutter to, and where does it lead? I would like to see some wider pictures of the area. 
Please consider posting your location into your profile. That is a bit of info that often helps others to help you. (no need to be exact, but the general area is good enough).


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## nealtw (Apr 4, 2017)

Oldhouseowner said:


> Thanks for the response, neal. So you're thinking that the issue could be tied into the removal of the rain barrel--that the water that was being captured by it and is now overloading the drain? I hadn't considered that the rain barrel might be filling that function (I wasn't a fan of it anyway--it seemed to be a good breeding ground for mosquitos), but I could try reconnecting it and seeing if that helps resolve the issue.



Only maybe, the water that comes from the lawn may have dissipated into the soil before the sidewalk blocked it's path


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## Oldhouseowner (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks again for the responses. I am including two photos below: one showing the drain nearest the under-porch storage area where the rain barrel previously was, and another showing the front of the house with the stone wall and drainage. To respond to a question from above:

I don't know where the drains in the front wall connect to. My assumption (perhaps wrong) has been that they connect to pipes under the lawn, but I could be wrong. I've not been able to see so far up into them to tell, but they do go back a ways.

I also do not know whether the drainage pipe I connected the downspout to leads--that's what is in the first picture below. I understand that this may not be enough information to make an educated diagnosis; we may simply have to brign someone out. My hope was that there would be something fairly obvious we could do (i.e. unsealing the sealed drain in the wall) that would help alleviate this.

The house is in Washington, DC BTW.


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## slownsteady (Apr 5, 2017)

Well, it's time to do some detective work, and piece together the situation through observation and trial& error. If you don't know where that down spout is going, I would start there by disconnecting it. On a dry day, you can put a hose into it and see if the leak appears in the basement, or perhaps see where the water is exiting to the street or a storm drain.
As for the weep holes, you can wait for a rain and see if water comes out. Even better would be water coming out _after_ a good rain, because that would mean the soil is draining.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

The drains in the wall by the sidewalk are just about draining the water from behind the wall to protect it from freezing and will have little to do with the house.

1. So we can not tell if the cool room is all concrete covered with brick or part wood frame with brick used as siding.

2. We can hope the perimeter drain went all around the house and has a place for water to go.

3. Newer houses have two pipes one for the perimeter that is perforated to pick up water and a second solid pipe to handle the downspouts.

As suggested you might be able to figure out what is connected and where it goes. 

Re directing the downspout might be the best quick fix.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

One of the first things they teach you in trouble shooting is to ask the question what has changed? In your case the sidewalk has changed. 

Could be a million things but the first thing to rule in or out is the sidewalk drains and what is tied into them. The one covered the most is the one in line with the roof drain. That is where I would start. Two ways to test is run water down it and see where it goes or put a smoke bomb in it and look for where smoke comes out. I would also jam a rod or something up in it and see if it is blocked.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> One of the first things they teach you in trouble shooting is to ask the question what has changed? In your case the sidewalk has changed.
> 
> Could be a million things but the first thing to rule in or out is the sidewalk drains and what is tied into them. The one covered the most is the one in line with the roof drain. That is where I would start. Two ways to test is run water down it and see where it goes or put a smoke bomb in it and look for where smoke comes out. I would also jam a rod or something up in it and see if it is blocked.



Removing the rain borrow and connecting the downspout is the change I was going after.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The drains in the wall by the sidewalk are just about draining the water from behind the wall to protect it from freezing and will have little to do with the house.
> 
> .



We dont know. Some old guy 75 years ago might have got tired of a wet front yard and saw that wall drain and said I will dig a ditch over to it and tie into that thing and let the roof water run on the street. 

All we know is someone plugged a hole and now there is water in the house.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Removing the rain borrow and connecting the downspout is the change I was going after.



What does he have to connect it to.

Cant run it at the neighbor . Could get a long pipe and run it over the walkway to the stone wall. 

He said he hooked it up and it worked until the sidewalk went in is how I see the time line.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> What does he have to connect it to.
> 
> Cant run it at the neighbor . Could get a long pipe and run it over the walkway to the stone wall.
> 
> He said he hooked it up and it worked until the sidewalk went in is how I see the time line.



First you know what the problem is, before looking for the solution.
If the perimeter drain is working, you would never have water coming up in the center of the floor, crack or not.

Why would the leak move from a crack near the wall to a crack in the center of the floor.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> First you know what the problem is, before looking for the solution.
> If the perimeter drain is working, you would never have water coming up in the center of the floor, crack or not.
> 
> Why would the leak move from a crack near the wall to a crack in the center of the floor.



100 year old homes might not even have a drain around the house I know mine doesnt. Water travels around and will take the path of least resistance. We and the OP dont know what we dont know.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> 100 year old homes might not even have a drain around the house I know mine doesnt. Water travels around and will take the path of least resistance. We and the OP dont know what we dont know.



Yes and that is why I said to try to take the downspout out of the picture.
Looking down the pipe, he will see if there is a pipe down there. Adding water he will be able to tell if it is moving along. By checking other downspouts, he might see if water is traveling around. And maybe by deduction, he can figure where the water might be going. 
If the street has a storm drain he may be able to detect water movement there..

With a little research the OP will have a better idea of what is happening and should change the lists of known and unknown.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Yes and that is why I said to try to take the downspout out of the picture.
> Looking down the pipe, he will see if there is a pipe down there. Adding water he will be able to tell if it is moving along. By checking other downspouts, he might see if water is traveling around. And maybe by deduction, he can figure where the water might be going.
> If the street has a storm drain he may be able to detect water movement there..
> 
> With a little research the OP will have a better idea of what is happening and should change the lists of known and unknown.



Good advice and what SNS suggested in #7


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## slownsteady (Apr 5, 2017)

The rain barrel and the sidewalk are both variables suggested by the OP.
And yes, a long (and temporary) pipe laid across the lawn would be a good test for both variables. The down-pipe could have been connected to a dry well; may have been damaged during sidewalk construction.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

Have you guys looked at the pictures, the floor of that room is at least 3 feet below the sidewalk in question.


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## slownsteady (Apr 5, 2017)

I'm not saying it's the sidewalk, just keeping in mind that it has been suggested/suspected. That cast iron down-pipe, being right there is my #1. The rain barrel may have been used to bypass a previous problem with the pipe. The pipe, being cast iron suggests that it is old and may even be tied into the sewerage line. You may find that out by running water in the house and listening at the open pipe.


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## Oldhouseowner (May 5, 2017)

Hey everyone, OP here.

I was waiting for a heavy rain to follow up on this, and we had one this morning. Attached is a still shot of a video I took this morning showing water cascading out of our rear downspout drain. The same thing is happening with the drain in front (closest to the basement where the infiltration is occuring).

I suspect that I have found the culprit here, and that the likely cause is a clogged sewer drain--although I should note that I have only seen this happen in exceptionally heavy rain (such as what we had this morning). Can anyone confirm my suspicions?

Thanks as always.


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## nealtw (May 5, 2017)

I think we can agree that you are putting more water down there than the system can handle.

In older systems they laid 12" long pipes around the house so it could pick up water around the foundation and then they ran the downspouts in there too.
It worked fine when it was new but as the system fills with mud and crap, instead of picking up water it leaks water around the foundation..
In new houses they install 2 pipes, one for the down spouts and one for the perimeter drain.

The old pipe systems were made out of terracotta tile or concrete tile, they can be full or broken and collapsed. So the fix would be to dig around the house and repair and replace or devert the downspout with another system and hope the perimeter drain can still handle the lower stuff or run a system inside the foundation with trench in the floor and a sump pump.

Sorry there is no good news here.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fTLfdZ1cdE[/ame]


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## slownsteady (May 5, 2017)

All that water is being dumped right next to the foundation, so you might as well disconnect from that cast iron pipe. It is not helping. You could put an elbow on the downspout and a short length of pipe and see if the rain will run off or be absorbed by the lawn, or you can run a longer length of pipe to the street or sidewalk (or any reliable low point)...maybe bury it a few inches below the lawn and call it fixed.
I still think that the holes in the wall are weep holes for the protection of the wall, and probably aren't much of a factor in the basement water problem.


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## Mastercarpenty (May 6, 2017)

Are you certain it drains into the sewer? Sometimes you find that in old houses in old cities, but usually downspouts drain either above-grade downhill (exposed) or into a cistern or dry-well. My guess is that you have the latter as these will fill with silt and dirt over time and lose capacity, the usual symptom of which is what you have. New dry-wells use landscape fabric to prevent this but that wasn't available in the old days so all you got was a gravel-filled hole in the ground. New systems also often have an overflow vent, again too new for your situation. With any of these (including a cistern) when the soil becomes saturated as will happen in a long heavy rain there is nowhere for the downspout water to go so it overflows.

Whatever it is, there is definitely a lack of flow capacity in the drain so that's where you must begin the investigation. You may be able to un-strap the downspouts then lift them to one side to gain access. From there you might discover if the piping heads toward your yard or towards the sewer helping you figure out what you've got. And if it's just a partial clog you might even be able to clear it from the now-exposed pipe.

Phil


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