# Do dryers need their own dedicated circuit?



## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

Probably going to be replacing our washer & dryer soon. Current dryer is gas but I'm considering replacing it with an electric dryer since the electric one is cheaper and because we're also going to be installing solar panels, with some excess capacity built in. I don't think the dryer would increase our usage too much simply because it would probably only get run maybe twice a week.

All the outlets in the garage are on a single 20 amp circuit. And there's nothing heavy plugged into any of the outlets currently other than the existing washer and (gas) dryer.

All I know currently is it's a 120 volt dryer

Thanks

edit: i think i found my answer - found the manual for the dryer and it has this in it:

_Most U.S. dryers require a 120 / 240 volt,
60 Hz AC approved electrical service.
Some require 120 / 208 volt, 60 Hz
approved electrical service. The electric
service requirements can be found on
the data label located behind the door.
A 30-ampere fuse or circuit breaker on
both sides of the line is required
_
I guess my follow up question would be - could I just swap the circuit in the subpanel with a 30 amp circuit and be ok? Or does the outlet also need to be changed and/or the wiring from the circuit to the outlet? Is this something I could reasonably, and safely, do myself or something I would have to get an electrician to come in and do? And what does it mean a fuse/circuit breaker on both sides of the line are required - there has to be a 2nd fuse/circuit at the outlet?


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## beachguy005 (Aug 25, 2016)

Your dryer isn't 120v, it just uses 120v for the controls....it's a gas dryer.  If you're going to go with an electric dryer you'll need a new circuit that uses #10 copper for 30 amps, if that's the requirement of the new dryer you'll be using.
The "both sides" issue is in reference for a 2 pole breaker on a 240v, 30 amp dryer circuit.  It would be in the panel.


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## Kabris (Aug 25, 2016)

The specs on your new dryer will tell you exactly what you need. I would start there.


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## Kabris (Aug 25, 2016)

If it's electric, it must be dedicated. If it requires a 30 Amp breaker, you must use #10 wire or bigger. All your 20 Amp breakers should have #12 wire, which is too small to put on a 30 Amp breaker.


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## Kabris (Aug 25, 2016)

As far as your outlet is concerned, you will probably need to supply your own dryer cord and plug. You can get them at a big box hardware store. You will need to know if it's a 3 wire or 4 wire, and then get the corresponding outlet for the plug. This information should also be on the dryer's specs.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

Kabris said:


> As far as your outlet is concerned, you will probably need to supply your own dryer cord and plug. You can get them at a big box hardware store. You will need to know if it's a 3 wire or 4 wire, and then get the corresponding outlet for the plug. This information should also be on the dryer's specs.



Yeah the plug I'm not worried about - they sell that with the dryer so I'll just order one if/when i order the dryer.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

beachguy005 said:


> Your dryer isn't 120v, it just uses 120v for the controls....it's a gas dryer.  If you're going to go with an electric dryer you'll need a new circuit that uses #10 copper for 30 amps, if that's the requirement of the new dryer you'll be using.
> The "both sides" issue is in reference for a 2 pole breaker on a 240v, 30 amp dryer circuit.  It would be in the panel.



Do you think this is something I could do myself? Thus far my electrical work consists of replacing outlets, light switches and light fixtures. About the only thing I can say with confidence in regards to doing this is I know how to turn off the main power so i don't fry myself while installing the circuit 

I think I could probably do it myself, but since I've never done it before I don't know what i don't know


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

merk said:


> I think I could probably do it myself, but since I've never done it before I don't know what i don't know


:thbup::thbup::thbup:
Do you have 2 spare spaces in your breaker box
What are the numbers on the main breaker?
How far is the location of the dryer from the breaker box
Are prepared to cut into drywall to run the wire.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

nealtw said:


> :thbup::thbup::thbup:
> Do you have 2 spare spaces in your breaker box
> What are the numbers on the main breaker?
> How far is the location of the dryer from the breaker box
> Are prepared to cut into drywall to run the wire.



yup, there's room in the subpanel for it.

The main is 200 amps - we just recently had all the wiring in the house redone including installing a new main panel and the subpanel.

The dryer would be about 20 feet from the subpabel. I'm not too worried about it looking pretty since this is in the garage and the garage is unfinished. I was planning on just running the wire overhead along the top of the wall. I thought that would be ok if i used the romex type wire - although I'm not sure if i have anything to cut it with.


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

People that know Cal codes can help with the details but you have to drill holes and run it in the wall or ceiling


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

nealtw said:


> People that know Cal codes can help with the details but you have to drill holes and run it in the wall or ceiling



I'm not concerned about it being 100% up to code. Just as long as it's safe. And I think running it along the top of the wall would be fine. i don't even use the garage to park my car so there isn't any chance of a car antenna or something snagging on the wire.


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

Code and safe is the same thing. Drill 15 holes, 15 minutes.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Code and safe is the same thing. Drill 15 holes, 15 minutes.



Sorry but i disagree - some of it i don't think is crucial - like putting the wires in the walls. And it's not just drilling 15 holes, it then patching 15 holes. 

besides, i thought you were allowed to have wires outside the wall if they were in romex?


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

When you said unfinished, I thought studs were exposed. You can use armor cable maybe or run it in conduit.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

nealtw said:


> When you said unfinished, I thought studs were exposed. You can use armor cable maybe or run it in conduit.



Oh i see - you meant holes through the studs, i thought you mean holes in the drywall to pull the wire through.

One wall in the garage, the wall this would go up against, has some drywall on it. Or something like drywall. The rest is bare studs.


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

If some one ever wants to finish the garage it would be silly to have to move a cable, so if you had bear studs you want to go thru the the studs.
So that wall has insulation in it too? I think you will be doing conduit and I will leave that to others to help you with that, as I have done very little and can't say I know enough.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

nealtw said:


> If some one ever wants to finish the garage it would be silly to have to move a cable, so if you had bear studs you want to go thru the the studs.
> So that wall has insulation in it too? I think you will be doing conduit and I will leave that to others to help you with that, as I have done very little and can't say I know enough.



The wall has no insulation -it's an interior wall. Heck, none of the walls, interior or exterior, in the whole house have insulation.


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

There is one other option, when the electricians are stuck behind a beam that they can not drill thru, we have built them a chase. which is just a 2x4 against the ceiling and another one 9' below that, then run the wire between them and drop them down thru the wall to the dryer outlet and the breaker box, but having loose wires in the wall may be a problem, not sure. Then you face the chase with drywall or what have you.


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 25, 2016)

USCode: Conduit will require individual THHN conductors, you're not allowed to run 'romex' in conduit. But there's a loophole. "Conduit" requires total enclosure from panel to receptacle, but a "wire protection enclosure" doesn't and you can run romex there. It can attach at one end only maximum. And the 'enclosure' is usually a form of conduit. You can 'enclose' the areas susceptible to damage to allow for future uses or owners and let it go at that. Semi-legal but safe enough. 

I cannot officially recommend this in lieu of following code correctly as intended, it's just some knowledge I'm sharing.

Phil


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks, I appreciate the advice


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

merk said:


> Thanks, I appreciate the advice



Go to about 1100 in this video and see a wire chase behind his head.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6hE1-OOGyY[/ame]


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

Yeah I got the idea if what it was...and from the video your description was spot on since that's exactly what I thought it was.

That's definitely overkill for anything I plan on doing. If I do this myself,  I most likely will just run romex overhead, or if I feel extra ambitious, some conduit along the bottom wall.


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

Romex is the stuff with vinyl coating, it can not be unprotected.
The box in the video is big enough for HVAC also.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

What's the stuff in the flexible metal coil? I thought that was romex?


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

I call that armored cable, but I think it has better name. I don't know about Cal. but I think it would be alright here.


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## merk (Aug 25, 2016)

Ah ok,thanks.  I'll look it up when I get home to see what that cable is called.


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## Kabris (Aug 26, 2016)

For a garage I agree with Neal that MC type cable would be more appropriate to run if it will be exposed on the outside of the wall. For a few more bucks I would go that route. I think they sell coils of 10/2, 10/3 w/ ground in 25, 50, 100 ft. The one hole straps for them are very cheap too. If you go that route, make sure you use MC type connectors and red anti-shorts at the box locations.


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## merk (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks, I appreciate the advice


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## hornetd (Sep 17, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I call that armored cable, but I think it has better name. I don't know about Cal. but I think it would be alright here.



Armored cable was developed by General Electric and initially manufactured in GE's Bronx NY factory.  It was GE's practice to label everything with the factory code for were it was produced.  When armored cable first appeared in the electrical industry every role produced had a card stock label attached using a twisted wire tether with the "BX" code on the card.  Naturally it was easier to send an apprentice to get BX cable since each roll was already labeled with a tag with that code on it it very large letters.  That is how armored cable came to  be called BX.  By the time other manufacturers began making Armored Cable the term BX was in common use among electricians and the name stuck.  

Non Metallic cable came to be called Romex in much the same way.  It was developed by the Rome Wire & Cable Company as an alternative to BX that was less expensive and easier to install.  Since  that company was competing directly with a product commonly called BX they called their Non Metallic Sheathed Cable Romex.  By the time that other companies were manufacturing some form of Type NM cable the name Romex was in common use.


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## mabloodhound (Sep 17, 2016)

I prefer conduit or "protected wire" instead of Bx.  But either will work as long as it is 10AWG.  And make sure you know how to wire the 220 V breaker in your panel.


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## kok328 (Sep 18, 2016)

Bx mc and greenfield. 
All the same thing by different names.


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## JoeD (Sep 18, 2016)

Greenfield is not a cable. It is a flexible conduit you add wires to. The others are complete cable assemblies with casing and wires.


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## Kabris (Sep 18, 2016)

BX and MC are different too. BX is the old armored cable that did not contain a ground. MC is the cable used today containing a ground wire.


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## hornetd (Sep 20, 2016)

Kabris said:


> BX and MC are different too. BX is the old armored cable that did not contain a ground. MC is the cable used today containing a ground wire.


While it is true that the original Armored Cable, which was manufactured at the General Electric plant in the Bronx and labeled BX as a consequence, did not have a separate Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) Armored Cable is still manufactured without an EGC in the form of a wire.  Instead it now contains a bonding strip run outside the paper wrapping just inside the armor itself.  That shorts each spiral of the armor wrapping together and allows it to serve as a fully effective EGC much like the metal of a metallic conduit system.  

Metal Clad (MC) cable, on the other hand uses it spiral metal tape over wrap for physical protection only and an EGC is installed with the other conductors in the form of an insulated wire.  

When two separate EGCs are required, such as for redundant grounding required in health care facilities or a separate isolated EGC for certain noise sensitive electronic loads, type AC cable is used with the second EGC taking the form of an insulated wire and the armor with bonding strip serving as the EGC for all other purposes.  

The overall point is that Type AC and Type MC cables are two entirely different cable types.  Neither is a successor to the other.  They both look the same because in their most common construction the both have a spiral wound interlocking metal tape as physical protection.


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## Kabris (Sep 20, 2016)

Thanks Tom, you are correct sir. I just refer to BX as the old type because many houses were wired with it back in the day. I don't see type AC used too often anymore in new installations.


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## KULTULZ (Sep 20, 2016)

merk said:


> I'm not concerned about it being 100% up to code. *Just as long as it's safe*.









That is what CODE is for...



> And I think running it along the top of the wall would be fine. i don't even use the garage to park my car so there isn't any chance of a car antenna or something snagging on the wire.


*CODE!?! I DON' NEED NO STINKIN' CODE!*


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 21, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> That is what CODE is for...
> 
> *CODE!?! I DON' NEED NO STINKIN' CODE!*



I absolutely agree with you!! That is what CODE is for!!  :agree:

Again, running romex on the outside of the wall is not a good idea especially  in a garage or basement. Something such as a heavy board, or something falling over can pinch a romex and cause a major short or even worse. Using MC or the like can give you added protection against that.


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## DFBonnett (Sep 21, 2016)

Somebody has to say it. When you factor in the cost for the electrical work, the load on the solar which may or not be able to handle a power hog like an electric dryer along with everything else, maybe it would just make more sense to leave the gas dryer in place. YMMV.


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## nealtw (Sep 21, 2016)

DFBonnett said:


> Somebody has to say it. When you factor in the cost for the electrical work, the load on the solar which may or not be able to handle a power hog like an electric dryer along with everything else, maybe it would just make more sense to leave the gas dryer in place. YMMV.



Solar dryers have been around for ever.:trophy:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADQDLdfQHco[/ame]


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 22, 2016)

NealTw, just watched that video. Wow, how simple can it be!!


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