# Kitchen or bathroom reno - best bang for buck.



## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

I am planning on my next major project. It will either be my main bathroom, or the kitchen.

The main bathroom is 8x5, a 4 piece with a tub and shower. 
The tiling is old. 
The tub's white enamel is wearing away,.
The walls are also partially covered with tongue and groove wood, but is missing in spots. The light fixture is definitely 80s vintage.
Basically, the layout would stay the same, but all new fixtures and wall coverings.

The kitchen is a combination kitchen and dining room. Currently It has a electric stove, fridge and a double sink. It has a portable dishwasher that I cannot use due to the faucet is not compatible.
There is nothing wrong with the fridge and stove. They are about 5 years old, and are simple.
I want to use a working dishwasher.
The cabinets are old. They do not go all the way to the ceiling. The hardware is ugly. The doors are wood with a white inner part. The uppers are too shallow. I hit my head on the corner doors when they are open. The other doors will open almost flush and out of the way. I hate the location of the handles on the lowers. This means that jut changing the location means there will be holes in all of them.
The counters are laminate and show signs of wear.
The flooring is fine. It is linoleum and is in decent condition.
The layout is annoying. I would swap where the stove and fridge are.

I know a kitchen reno is going to be more expensive.
I have a second bathroom to use while the other one is out of commission.

So, in 5 years, I plan on selling and upgrading. I could leave them, but they both annoy me equally. So, when I sell, which will add value? Which will give me more bang for the buck?


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## Sparky617 (May 9, 2017)

Neither one will give you a 100% return on the investment.  That said, you have 5 years to enjoy them, so I'd do the one that will give you the most enjoyment for your buck.  I'd probably opt for the kitchen first as you spend more time there than a bathroom.  Don't over improve though if you're planning on selling in 5 years.  A $40K kitchen in a $150K house will not recoup anywhere close to what you put into it.  If your neighbors all have laminate counters spending the extra money for granite won't pay off, but if you want granite, do it.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

Sparky617 said:


> Neither one will give you a 100% return on the investment.  That said, you have 5 years to enjoy them, so I'd do the one that will give you the most enjoyment for your buck.  I'd probably opt for the kitchen first as you spend more time there than a bathroom.  Don't over improve though if you're planning on selling in 5 years.  A $40K kitchen in a $150K house will not recoup anywhere close to what you put into it.  If your neighbors all have laminate counters spending the extra money for granite won't pay off, but if you want granite, do it.



In my forever house, I would be very picky with the finishes. This is a modest house in a modest neighbourhood. So, it will be laminate. It can still be a nice laminate.


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## Sparky617 (May 9, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> In my forever house, I would be very picky with the finishes. This is a modest house in a modest neighbourhood. So, it will be laminate. It can still be a nice laminate.



Good plan.  You don't want to over-improve your house.  It can help you sell it very quickly, but it won't bring in a good rate of return.  No one is going to pay 2x the neighborhood comparables for a house.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

Sparky617 said:


> Good plan.  You don't want to over-improve your house.  It can help you sell it very quickly, but it won't bring in a good rate of return.  No one is going to pay 2x the neighborhood comparables for a house.



Exactly. Both rooms need to be done. I am not looking at getting top dollar, I am just thinking if I clean them up with new stuff, what will give me more bang.


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

So post some photos of both rooms.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

Mind the mess

Bathroom:


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

Kitchen













... which is worse?


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

1967 called and wants their bathroom back.:thbup:


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> 1967 called and wants their bathroom back.:thbup:



House was built in 1972....


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

Measure the tub is that a 60 x 30?


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Measure the tub is that a 60 x 30?



It is 59x31


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> It is 59x31



If you measure right at the ends, is it still 31.

I would start with the bathroom.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> If you measure right at the ends, is it still 31.
> 
> I would start with the bathroom.



I measured at the ends.

Why do you suggest it over the kitchen?


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

Old bathrooms just bring up thoughts of mold and grungy dirt after 40 years. Then you look at holes in walls.

And if you are doing the work yourself and look for bargains, easy to do a budget.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Old bathrooms just bring up thoughts of mold and grungy dirt after 40 years. Then you look at holes in walls.
> 
> And if you are doing the work yourself and look for bargains, easy to do a budget.



That does sound like best bang for buck. I can collect the fixtures and eventually do it once I have everything. Less of an apparent hit to the wallet.


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> That does sound like best bang for buck. I can collect the fixtures and eventually do it once I have everything. Less of an apparent hit to the wallet.



The kitchen will at least need new doors and re configuration of the cupboards and at most all new.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The kitchen will at least need new doors and re configuration of the cupboards and at most all new.



I plan to swap where the fridge ans stove are. Which means new electrical.


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## nealtw (May 9, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> I plan to swap where the fridge ans stove are. Which means new electrical.



and hood vent


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## Snoonyb (May 9, 2017)

In the kitchen; There are adapters available at hdw. stores that will thread into your faucet and allow you to connect your existing DW.

Is the hood vented to the exterior, or recirculating?

What is the orfice to the left of the range?

When you relocate those appliances you can either reverse the refer doors, add another cabinet to the left of the refer or relocate the DW, giving a resting place for Items removed from the refer

Adding a shelf unit, or shelves between the upper and the relocated hood upper allows you to maintain access to the corner base cabinets.

Instead of new doors, you could relocate the lower hrdw. patch and paint.

As for the bath; If you can live with it, wait until you are ready to sell, then spruce it up, paint it up, have have the tub refinished and move on.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

nealtw said:


> and hood vent


Yes, the range hood would be replaced with a new one over the stove.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> In the kitchen; There are adapters available at hdw. stores that will thread into your faucet and allow you to connect your existing DW.
> 
> Is the hood vented to the exterior, or recirculating?
> 
> ...



The hood is vented to the exterior via a pipe in the front closet.

I would have to change out the spray head on it now. I like that version.

The orifice is the hook up for a central vac system.

I can live with both rooms. Kinda like you can live with one leg. My goal is to make it better. Living here for a year, I hate both rooms. I am not sure if I can do both rooms, but I want to do one.


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## zannej (May 9, 2017)

Bathroom doesn't look too bad to me. I've seen a LOT worse. At least it doesn't have carpet (which mine did). It certainly looks better than my bathrooms. I'd suggest putting up some wainscotting like some beadboard or something along the bottom walls to cover up the missing chunk. Give the walls a fresh coat of paint. For the floor, you can get some new sheet vinyl and can probably get away with just laying it over the existing floor. They have some you don't even have to glue down so long as you secure the edges. Or you could pull up the old flooring and put in peel & stick vinyl. There are some types that look nice.
For the wall behind the sink and toilet, there are glossy wall panels you can put up or some plastic wall things you can glue up there. Or maybe you could just go with some FRP.

For the tile around the tub, you could probably get one of those refinishing kits where you sort of paint over it and make it look newer. You may be able to refinish the tub as well. I think due to the size o the tub, it might be harder to find modular surround/tub kits. Although I think Maax might have some but they are pricey. 
You can get some 

The euro style sink and toilet look fine to me- as does the space saver over the toilet.

Kitchen looks worse to me (although the floor looks to be in decent condition). For the countertops, there are actually kits to paint them and epoxy over them if you wanted to go with something different. It can give the look of granite without actually being granite and it doesn't look like cheap stuff.

For the cabinets, if they aren't falling apart, you can probably paint them and maybe change out the hardware/knobs and stuff.

The floor looks nice though.

Is that an old computer monitor on top of the fridge?


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2017)

zannej said:


> Bathroom doesn't look too bad to me. I've seen a LOT worse. At least it doesn't have carpet (which mine did). It certainly looks better than my bathrooms. I'd suggest putting up some wainscotting like some beadboard or something along the bottom walls to cover up the missing chunk. Give the walls a fresh coat of paint. For the floor, you can get some new sheet vinyl and can probably get away with just laying it over the existing floor. They have some you don't even have to glue down so long as you secure the edges. Or you could pull up the old flooring and put in peel & stick vinyl. There are some types that look nice.
> For the wall behind the sink and toilet, there are glossy wall panels you can put up or some plastic wall things you can glue up there. Or maybe you could just go with some FRP.
> 
> For the tile around the tub, you could probably get one of those refinishing kits where you sort of paint over it and make it look newer. You may be able to refinish the tub as well. I think due to the size o the tub, it might be harder to find modular surround/tub kits. Although I think Maax might have some but they are pricey.
> ...



For the bathroom:
I can get another tub the same size at Home Depot.
The tile is cracked.
I can remove all the wood, and simply paint the walls.

For the kitchen:
The uppers do not go to the ceiling. 
I do not like the layout. 
A house near here went up for sale and I saw their pictures. they have a similar space for their kitchen, but the layout was better.


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## nealtw (May 10, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> For the bathroom:
> I can get another tub the same size at Home Depot.
> The tile is cracked.
> I can remove all the wood, and simply paint the walls.
> ...



People everywhere are changing bathrooms, just because. 
I would be watching used building material places or Habitat re-stores for near new acrylic tub and sometimes they have enough tile, Guess where HD gets rid of old stock tile.


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## Snoonyb (May 10, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> The hood is vented to the exterior via a pipe in the front closet.



Thanks. Then your alternatives are access to the pipe, the roof or ventless.



swimmer_spe said:


> I would have to change out the spray head on it now. I like that version.



Unless you have a blank hole in the sink, which allows you to select another style of faucet that would accommodate that feature, as well as the existing DW.



swimmer_spe said:


> The orifice is the hook up for a central vac system.



Thanks, that's what it appeared as.



swimmer_spe said:


> I can live with both rooms. Kinda like you can live with one leg. My goal is to make it better. Living here for a year, I hate both rooms. I am not sure if I can do both rooms, but I want to do one.



The statement referred to the bathroom.

Your additional criteria was "bang for your buck", and the advice afforded you regarding the % of the value and the ability to recover, is absolutely correct, IE. the more you invest, the longer your occupancy to attain equity, let alone profit, will be.


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## zannej (May 10, 2017)

Neal is right that you can look at some Habitat for Humanity Re-Stores if they are in your area or look at surplus warehouses and such. If you don't want to put up new tile, you can probably take down the old tile and put up modular wall surrounds that don't require a specific tub. But you may be able to find a set that is modular and fits the 59x31 space.

I was going to suggest adding something on top of the existing cabinets so they go to the ceiling (or almost all the way to the ceiling). And having one over the fridge too. You don't have to tear out the old cabinets themselves if they are in good condition, but you can replace the doors. Re-using as much material as you can would be good.

And anything you can comfortably DIY in terms of labor can save you some $. 

Keep in mind that you don't have to fix both rooms at one time. You can try to save up some $ and then do things a little at a time. I think first order of business would be to tackle that tub an tile, then paint the walls, and then do the floor (that way no risk of paint getting on the floor).

Do you have any pictures or sketches of the layout of the kitchen you liked better than your own?

I can't remember if you've said what your budget limits are. How much are you willing/able to spend?

It would also help to know what your wish list is for fixing up each room. What needs to be done, what would you like to do, etc. We can compare the ideal to what is practical and see if there can be a meeting somewhere in between.

Edit to add that I found a shower/tub unit that is 59"x31" by Maax. The Monaco alcove tub/shower http://www.maax.com/en/products/bathtubs/tub-showers/monaco-adv
Not sure on price though. But I do know that Surplus Warehouse carries some Maax surrounds for decent prices. Not sure if you have one in your area though.


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## nealtw (May 10, 2017)

For the kitchen I would wait until that new workshop is built (garage) you could build some new boxes to go with the cupboards and re arrange them and order new doors. 
Most houses that old still had the box above the cupboards and that is good place to hide the duct for a hood vent.


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## Sparky617 (May 10, 2017)

For the tub you could look at Bathfitters, they come in and in a day cover your bathtub and surround with a new acrylic cover.  Better than applying a coat of paint.  I like the wainscotting idea in the bathroom or just fixing the drywall and repainting.  I'd avoid peel and stick and go with a vinyl plank floor instead.  Pretty easy to install DIY.  I did some for Appalachia Service Project a year or two ago in a bathroom.  If you're handy you can have the bathroom done in a few hours.

I'd go for the kitchen.  Stock cabinets from the home center would be a great option.  If you avoid having a U-shaped kitchen and no island or peninsula you can use stock post-form laminate counters.  Islands, peninsulas, and U-shaped require custom counters.  Making your own isn't hard if you're handy and have a few tools.  I would try to incorporate the dishwasher into the cabinets and get away from the portable.  A portable dishwasher is considered personal property and not an improvement to the house.  It doesn't add value.

As far as the Habitat Reuse Centers, I haven't found any great bargains in our local store.  They charge an arm and a leg for used kitchen cabinets.  You may have better luck looking on Craig's List for someone selling their complete kitchen.


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## Snoonyb (May 10, 2017)

You also need to decide which market your improvements are directed to address; The move in and life is wonderful, The remodel before they move in or the starter family with their eye on the long term future.

Each require a different budget.


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## zannej (May 10, 2017)

I believe that Surplus Warehouse actually does some free kitchen planning and help. And they sell prefab laminate countertops with 45 degree corner cuts to make U-shaped or L-shaped counters. They have a decent range of cabinet options too. I believe the term used for the countertops with the angle is "mitered". An example (but it doesn't show a picture of the miter). It says it is mitered on the right.

Sparky, I suppose it depends on the particular ReStore. The one that was near me (before it closed down) had very cheap prices on stuff. But maybe that was part of why they shut down. They do have facebook pages and if you find the store in your area (if there is one) they often show pictures and have prices of what they have. Btw, since you mentioned the vinyl plank flooring, what kind do you find to be good? And did you get click lock or glue down?

I agree on trying the built-in dishwasher. I have a freestanding one and it can be a real pain at times. Have to push it over to the sink and hook it up and can't use the sink while it's hooked up. It would eliminate the problem with needing the right attachment for the faucet.


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## Sparky617 (May 10, 2017)

Zannej,
The vinyl plank was click and lock. I don't remember the brand.  It was pretty easy to lay down and once in place it didn't shift around.

I've seen counters at the home center with one 45 cut but never on both ends, that is why I was saying it becomes custom.  the second 45 needs to be carefully cut because you have to install it in an enclosed area against two walls. Not something you can carry stock since even two identical houses built by the same builder at the same time would have the identical measurements for the counters.   Not sure how much extra the cut would be, but you're not in Lowe's and Home Depot at that point.  They don't have the tools to do it in store.

Our HFH has some bargins, mainly in used (and abused) furniture that would be OK for a college apartment.  The prices they charge for used cabinets that aren't in great shape is incredible.  For just a few bucks more I can get brand new unfinished oak cabinets or white laminated cabinets from Home Depot or Lowes.  As they say YMMV.


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## swimmer_spe (May 10, 2017)

zannej said:


> Neal is right that you can look at some Habitat for Humanity Re-Stores if they are in your area or look at surplus warehouses and such. If you don't want to put up new tile, you can probably take down the old tile and put up modular wall surrounds that don't require a specific tub. But you may be able to find a set that is modular and fits the 59x31 space.
> 
> I was going to suggest adding something on top of the existing cabinets so they go to the ceiling (or almost all the way to the ceiling). And having one over the fridge too. You don't have to tear out the old cabinets themselves if they are in good condition, but you can replace the doors. Re-using as much material as you can would be good.
> 
> ...



https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/17981106/170-DAVID-Street-Chelmsford-Ontario-P0M1L0

This is the listing of my neighbour's house. I like the layout of their kitchen.


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## swimmer_spe (May 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> For the kitchen I would wait until that new workshop is built (garage) you could build some new boxes to go with the cupboards and re arrange them and order new doors.
> Most houses that old still had the box above the cupboards and that is good place to hide the duct for a hood vent.




I will be waiting for the garage to be done. 

I plan to do the room reno during the winter.


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## nealtw (May 10, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> I will be waiting for the garage to be done.
> 
> I plan to do the room reno during the winter.



In a tight bathroom, you don't want glass shower doors, keep an eye out for a curved shower curtain rod, better than sliced bread.:thbup:


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## swimmer_spe (May 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> In a tight bathroom, you don't want glass shower doors, keep an eye out for a curved shower curtain rod, better than sliced bread.:thbup:



That is what is there now. I plan on using it.


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## nealtw (May 11, 2017)

When you are looking for tile bargains you can mix and match tile by working in a pattern.


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## zannej (May 11, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/17981106/170-DAVID-Street-Chelmsford-Ontario-P0M1L0
> 
> This is the listing of my neighbour's house. I like the layout of their kitchen.


Ooh, I really like the cabinets they used. The doors are the kind I want in my kitchen-- raised panel cathedral style. I also like how they put cabinets all around the fridge. And I see they have soffits above some of the other cabinets. Interesting how they have their microwave on a shelf.


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## Sparky617 (May 11, 2017)

Swim,
Judging by all your posts, you've got several years of projects ahead on a house you only plan on living in for 5 years.  Keep an eye on your neighborhood comps and don't over improve.  You don't want to be the most expensive house in the neighborhood, you'll never get the money back you put into it.


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## swimmer_spe (May 11, 2017)

Sparky617 said:


> Swim,
> Judging by all your posts, you've got several years of projects ahead on a house you only plan on living in for 5 years.  Keep an eye on your neighborhood comps and don't over improve.  You don't want to be the most expensive house in the neighborhood, you'll never get the money back you put into it.



Lol. I got this house or a steal. So, even now, I could get what the listing of my neighbour's is, and still walk away laughing to the bank.

I plan one doing 1 major reno a year. Everything will be something that annoys me about this place, and something that can ad value to the house. Last year was the roof. This year is the garage.


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## Sparky617 (May 11, 2017)

When my parents retired back to PA after a 5 year stint in NJ they bought a 85 year old house and we proceeded to do major renovations every year for the first 5 or 6 years: 2 car garage, exterior remodel with a covered patio and enclosing an upstairs balcony into a Florida room, new kitchen (flipping the kitchen and dining room), renovations to the upstairs, living room and laundry room.  Some of it was done DIY and some by professional builders.  All told we put about $50K into the house that cost $50K when they bought it in 1985.  After my mother passed we sold it for about $105K.  Had we hung on to it for another 5 or 6 years we would have made a lot more money, but none of us wanted to live there.  My brother and sister lived in the same town and had built new homes, I lived in NC and my other brother lived in CA.

That house did cure me of This Old House envy.   I had wanted them to have an old family friend build them a new house in his subdivision.  A nice ranch that would have met all of their needs would have cost about $100K at the time.  When they were both gone I'm sure we would have more than recouped the investment without all the blood, sweat and tears involved in renovating the old house.   I'm surprised their marriage of 45 years survived all the renovations.


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## nealtw (May 11, 2017)

Sparky617 said:


> When my parents retired back to PA after a 5 year stint in NJ they bought a 85 year old house and we proceeded to do major renovations every year for the first 5 or 6 years: 2 car garage, exterior remodel with a covered patio and enclosing an upstairs balcony into a Florida room, new kitchen (flipping the kitchen and dining room), renovations to the upstairs, living room and laundry room.  Some of it was done DIY and some by professional builders.  All told we put about $50K into the house that cost $50K when they bought it in 1985.  After my mother passed we sold it for about $105K.  Had we hung on to it for another 5 or 6 years we would have made a lot more money, but none of us wanted to live there.  My brother and sister lived in the same town and had built new homes, I lived in NC and my other brother lived in CA.
> 
> That house did cure me of This Old House envy.   I had wanted them to have an old family friend build them a new house in his subdivision.  A nice ranch that would have met all of their needs would have cost about $100K at the time.  When they were both gone I'm sure we would have more than recouped the investment without all the blood, sweat and tears involved in renovating the old house.   I'm surprised their marriage of 45 years survived all the renovations.



I don't think that is the direction Swim is going. I think he has bought the bargain on the block. He could have bought the best but would likely have to take a second job to make the payments but now he has a good idea of what the house could be worth if he fixed a half dozen problem areas.

In Canada we don't deduct interest on the house and we don't pay tax on the increased value when we sell as long as we live in the house.

He might think of this work as entertainment, or a second job with out being taxed or just honing his skills.

I started out the same way, and I have also bought new but either way there was things to change. you know the changes you have to make to make a house a home. the problem is the money spent changing a new house is never returned while that older house always has increased value as long as the work you do is quality work.


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## swimmer_spe (May 11, 2017)

I am doing the things that piss me off. The kitchen and bathroom piss me off. Not having a garage is pissing me off.

So, I am basically making myself happy and putting in things that will add value. I know a newer, cleaner kitchen and bathroom will make this place more desirable.


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## zannej (May 12, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> I am doing the things that piss me off. The kitchen and bathroom piss me off. Not having a garage is pissing me off.
> 
> So, I am basically making myself happy and putting in things that will add value. I know a newer, cleaner kitchen and bathroom will make this place more desirable.


That makes sense to me. With that said and the one reno a year thing-- I think that unless the bathroom has leaking issues that will cause things to get worse, the kitchen would be the best starting point. But it depends on what pisses you off more. LOL.

I did like the layout and cabinets of the other kitchen you linked. It seems like a better design. 
Do you live anywhere near stores that sell whole suites of cabinets/appliances? I've heard that if you buy last year's suites they are lower price. Also heard that if you live near a warehouse where they offload the stuff, that sometimes you can go directly to the warehouse and buy stuff wholesale. They show people doing that on shows like "Ten Grand in Your Hand" (showing how to get discounts on stuff).

And sometimes, if you can pick an item that Lowes / HD have in stock and find it online for cheaper (when it is the regular price on the other store) you can print it out or save the url and take it in to those stores and show them the lower price. Although, I think they may do that even if they have to ship the item to the store so long as the online store has it in stock. IIRC, if Lowes already has it in stock I think they do the lower price plus 10% off of that-- but it depends on the store manager-- some may refuse to do that.

I don't know if you're military or retired military, but Lowes has military discount. Home Depot has AARP discount. (I just now learned that and will drag my mother with me next time I go to HD).


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## Snoonyb (May 12, 2017)

Their reciprocal discounts are 10% of the price difference.IE, $1.00 difference =$.10, hardly pays for the fuel, let alone the time.


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## zannej (May 12, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Their reciprocal discounts are 10% of the price difference.IE, $1.00 difference =$.10, hardly pays for the fuel, let alone the time.


I think it depends on how close he lives to the places-- if they are nearby it might be good. He would have to factor in tax vs shipping (unless tax + shipping is charged) and which is the lower price.
And there are some things that are better to pick up in the store so you can make sure they are not damaged vs having to get something in the mail and return it if it's damaged.
I just remembered he lives in Canada though, so the rules might be different for the stores there.


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## nealtw (May 12, 2017)

zannej said:


> I think it depends on how close he lives to the places-- if they are nearby it might be good. He would have to factor in tax vs shipping (unless tax + shipping is charged) and which is the lower price.
> And there are some things that are better to pick up in the store so you can make sure they are not damaged vs having to get something in the mail and return it if it's damaged.
> I just remembered he lives in Canada though, so the rules might be different for the stores there.



Out here and I think it is much the same where he is, there were a lot of houses built in the 70s that where all the same and people a changing kitchens more often than underwear, if he keeps an eye used building material or Graiglist he might find one that fits that's only a few years old.

It takes time too find the deal, that's why I suggested bathroom.


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## zannej (May 12, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Out here and I think it is much the same where he is, there were a lot of houses built in the 70s that where all the same and people a changing kitchens more often than underwear, if he keeps an eye used building material or Graiglist he might find one that fits that's only a few years old.
> 
> It takes time too find the deal, that's why I suggested bathroom.


Good point. Of course with either reno he could probably start gathering the materials and stuff he will need over time before any demo starts. He can probably store some stuff in the garage.


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## nealtw (May 12, 2017)

zannej said:


> Good point. Of course with either reno he could probably start gathering the materials and stuff he will need over time before any demo starts. He can probably store some stuff in the garage.



He is still building the garage. For a bathroom the only real bargain he will find are deals on tile and maybe a tub. He has the sink and van already .


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## swimmer_spe (May 12, 2017)

My garage should be closed in by the end of the month. Electrical, heating, siding, etc... who knows. Those all depend on budget, and electrical will be the biggie.

Right now, I could spend less than $100 and "fix" that which pisses me off. However, that will not look all that pretty.

I really want a working dishwasher. I could put in a built in one for a few hundred. However, the cladding will not match the rest of the kitchen.

So, in the end it come down to both rooms need to be done. The bathroom looks ugly. The kitchen is functional, but dated.

I could rip off the wood in the bathroom out and clean up that wall, and then throw some pain on the wall. That's about $100 as well..

They need to be one mainly due to cosmetic issues, not function issues.


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## zannej (May 12, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> My garage should be closed in by the end of the month. Electrical, heating, siding, etc... who knows. Those all depend on budget, and electrical will be the biggie.
> 
> Right now, I could spend less than $100 and "fix" that which pisses me off. However, that will not look all that pretty.
> 
> ...


When you do finish your garage, I'd love to see photos.

I get what you're saying about the fixes. I hope you can come to a decision on which one to fix first-- whichever one pisses you off the most. As for the dishwasher thing, it would be a lot more expensive, but they sell "custom panel" or "panel ready" dishwashers that let you put a cabinet face on them so they look like part of the cabinetry. Not sure if you want to spend that much though. Another option might be to keep a portable one and add another sink with a hookup for it and use the dishwasher as an island of sorts. That is pretty much what I do with mine.
http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc...n-dishwashers/all-dishwashers/SHVM63W53N.html
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpoo...Steel-Tub-in-Panel-Ready-UDT555SAFP/207055770
http://www.sears.com/bosch-shvm63w5...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
http://www.abt.com/product/69427/Bo...ice^c-plaid^310242048863-sku^69427-adType^PLA


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## swimmer_spe (May 12, 2017)

zannej said:


> When you do finish your garage, I'd love to see photos.
> 
> I get what you're saying about the fixes. I hope you can come to a decision on which one to fix first-- whichever one pisses you off the most. As for the dishwasher thing, it would be a lot more expensive, but they sell "custom panel" or "panel ready" dishwashers that let you put a cabinet face on them so they look like part of the cabinetry. Not sure if you want to spend that much though. Another option might be to keep a portable one and add another sink with a hookup for it and use the dishwasher as an island of sorts. That is pretty much what I do with mine.
> http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc...n-dishwashers/all-dishwashers/SHVM63W53N.html
> ...



I know I can put a built in where I want it with a side cabinet for around $1000, including the hookups.
I do not have the room for another sink for the portable dishwasher.


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## swimmer_spe (May 12, 2017)

A friend pointed something out to me.

Right now I am going to school and I receive a VA pension. While it pays the bills, it is nowhere near as much as what I will make once I am done school. So, if I hold off for the kitchen till after I am working, I will have much more money to do it right.

The bathroom I can easily do. I could go "all out", and still be able to afford to do while still in school.

So, I think as I get closer to doing something, it makes more sense to do the bathroom.


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## zannej (May 13, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> A friend pointed something out to me.
> 
> Right now I am going to school and I receive a VA pension. While it pays the bills, it is nowhere near as much as what I will make once I am done school. So, if I hold off for the kitchen till after I am working, I will have much more money to do it right.
> 
> ...


Ahh! That makes more sense. The kitchen has a lot more work needed. Bathroom is smaller and simpler so it would be the more economical starting point. I'd love to know what you have in mind for the reno on it.

Is your vanity able to be modified to have a hidden toekick drawer? Good place to store the bathroom scale or other things. And you might want to take advantage of between-the-stud storage if you end up opening any walls. Probably won't go that far-- it looks like (other than the tub/shower area) you just need to cover some holes, paint, and put in new flooring. I think some beadboard for the lower part of the wall would look nice (but that's my personal preference). 

Do you have anything like bathfitters in your area where they can put a liner in your tub and cover the tile wall? I know tile cracks can be fixed, but am not an expert on how. I'm not a fan of tile.  I don't like all of the grout lines. If you splurge a bit, maybe you could get large porcelain tiles or something. 

And for behind the tiles, there are lightweight cementboard options available. Can't remember what it's called now. You might want to consider putting in some little in-shower cubbies if you take off the wall that the tile is on.


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## greenlady0 (May 16, 2017)

definitely the kitchen only reason it is just not functional, the bathroom may not be pretty but the layout at least works. I would do a mid price cabinet countertop to your liking rearrange stove and fridge and splurge on a working dishwasher. It will be worth every penny in the end. For the bath the tub can be reglazed if it is a cast iron tub then work on the rest as budget and time allows. Remember you never move until you have remodeled/redecorated every roomPost pics of before and after. Best of luck


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## Voldo (May 18, 2017)

the bathroom is more economical compare to the kitchen renovation as you will need a lot of things to do on your kitchen, based on the pics if I will be doing a renovation on your kitchen I will definitely add new countertop, cabinets, shelves and lightning to really uplift the your kitchen. if ever you opt for the kitchen reno please do not forget to add proper lightings and outlets.


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## swimmer_spe (May 18, 2017)

Voldo said:


> the bathroom is more economical compare to the kitchen renovation as you will need a lot of things to do on your kitchen, based on the pics if I will be doing a renovation on your kitchen I will definitely add new countertop, cabinets, shelves and lightning to really uplift the your kitchen. if ever you opt for the kitchen reno please do not forget to add proper lightings and outlets.



The lighting is not an issue. I would change the plugs to GFCI, but there is plenty of them throughout the counter area.


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