# Wiring up an electrical outlet outside



## swimmer_spe (May 7, 2020)

I have enclosed my backyard. There is no power outlet back there, so any power is by an extension cord. Providing a circuit is not overloaded, can I just wire to another outlet? I was thinking of putting the outlet through the joist that sits on the concrete wall, but I am concerned that I would be removing too much support.

I feel this is at the edge, or just beyond my abilities, so it may be left to a professional.


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## Snoonyb (May 7, 2020)

How about some panoramic photos?


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## swimmer_spe (May 7, 2020)

Snoonyb said:


> How about some panoramic photos?



Of what?


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## Snoonyb (May 7, 2020)

*"Wiring up an electrical outlet outside"

who, what, why, where.*


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## Johnboy555 (May 8, 2020)

Do you have a basement? Where do you want the outlets? What do you want to power outside?  Where do you live?  
All these questions have different ways of resolution.


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## afjes_2016 (May 8, 2020)

This sounds more like a statement than a question.

Yes, if you don't overload a circuit you can continue it under certain circumstances only. It depends what that circuit services and what you plan to power off that receptacle you plan to install.

When you say "I have enclosed my backyard. "  what do you mean by this?

You really have not given enough information for us to understand what it is you want to do.


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## Sparky617 (May 8, 2020)

Any outdoor outlet needs to be GFCI protected.  

You need to use this kind of cover: https://www.lowes.com/pd/TayMac-1-Gang-Rectangle-Plastic-Weatherproof-Electrical-Box-Cover/50372928

With this kind of box: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sigma-Elec...d-Rectangular-Exterior-Electrical-Box/1098639

And this type of outlet: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pass-Seymo...Residential-Commercial-3-Pack-Outlet/50405164

It needs to be wired with 12 gauge wire on a 20amp circuit

Not sure what enclosing the backyard has to do with anything.  A hole for the wire won't weaken the rim joist.


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## bud16415 (May 8, 2020)

Sparky617 said:


> Any outdoor outlet needs to be GFCI protected.
> 
> You need to use this kind of cover: https://www.lowes.com/pd/TayMac-1-Gang-Rectangle-Plastic-Weatherproof-Electrical-Box-Cover/50372928
> 
> ...




Great post.



One question is there any code violation to a 15a GFCI with all the products you mentioned above and a 15a GFCI outlet being outdoors.



The reason I ask is it might be easier for him to find a circuit to tap into that is 15a, plus it is a bit easier to wire the smaller gage wire.

Your point should be noted is all he needs is a hole for the wire going thru the rim joist and the box can be mounted with the bottom flat against a surface. There is a hole in the back of these boxes for the wire to pass thru, but I would seal it after running the wires. Also these boxes have clips you attach for mounting to a surface that slip into the back. I like to just drill a couple holes thru the box for a couple deck screws. I find that more sturdy and cleaner looking.


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## Sparky617 (May 8, 2020)

I'm not a code expert.  With that caveat.  If he taps into a 15amp circuit he needs to use a 15amp GFCI.  I believe you can use a lower rated GFCI on a 20amp circuit but not the other way around.  The T-shaped prong is what separates a 15 amp max from a 20 amp max.  20amp devices would have one prong perpendicular to the other.  I believe in the current code kitchen, bath, and outdoor outlets are supposed to be 20amp.  You may never plug a 20amp device into the outlet, but you could easily in these settings have more than one device that added together would exceed 15amp.  (such as hair dryer & curling iron/coffee maker & toaster oven/multiple power tools)

I too drill through the box, there are usually indentations in the box cast into it.  It does look cleaner.


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

Johnboy555 said:


> Do you have a basement? Where do you want the outlets? What do you want to power outside?  Where do you live?
> All these questions have different ways of resolution.



Yes. The joist is easily accessable from the basement.
I want the outlet in the backyard, the height doesn't matter to me, but I'd rather not have to go through concrete or above the first floor floor.
It would be things like charge cables or decorative lights. No major draw. It would be coming off a 15A circuit.
Ontario Canada.




afjes_2016 said:


> This sounds more like a statement than a question.
> 
> Yes, if you don't overload a circuit you can continue it under certain circumstances only. It depends what that circuit services and what you plan to power off that receptacle you plan to install.
> 
> ...



My backyard has a fence around it. The nearest outdoor plug is outside the fence. I want a plug inside the fence. I am concerned about cutting a large hole into the joist that sits on the foundation so that I can mount the box there.


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## Sparky617 (May 8, 2020)

swimmer_spe said:


> Yes. The joist is easily accessable from the basement.
> I want the outlet in the backyard, the height doesn't matter to me, but I'd rather not have to go through concrete or above the first floor floor.
> It would be things like charge cables or decorative lights. No major draw. It would be coming off a 15A circuit.
> Ontario Canada.
> ...



The rim joist that is sitting on the foundation isn't supporting any weight across an open span, it is fully supported by the foundation.  It is mainly there to keep your floor joists that are supporting weight vertical.  A 3/4" hole for a piece of Romex will have no impact.  If you're tapping into a 15amp circuit use a 15amp GFCI.


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

Sparky617 said:


> The rim joist that is sitting on the foundation isn't supporting any weight across an open span, it is fully supported by the foundation.  It is mainly there to keep your floor joists that are supporting weight vertical.  A 3/4" hole for a piece of Romex will have no impact.  If you're tapping into a 15amp circuit use a 15amp GFCI.



I am not planning on just putting the wire through there. I plan to cut a hole in it big enough for the receptacle box to fit in so I can mount it there.


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## Sparky617 (May 8, 2020)

Then you need to use a different box than I provided in my link above.  I would use something like this,  a plastic old work box won't be able to clamp to the rim joist.  This box can be screwed into the sheathing.   Cutting out for a box will not weaken your rim joist.  The rim joist is compressed between the floor/wall structure and the foundation.  It ain't going anywhere.



			https://www.lowes.com/pd/STEEL-CITY-1-Gang-Metal-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/3284610


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

Sparky617 said:


> Then you need to use a different box than I provided in my link above.  I would use something like this,  a plastic old work box won't be able to clamp to the rim joist.  This box can be screwed into the sheathing.   Cutting out for a box will not weaken your rim joist.  The rim joist is compressed between the floor/wall structure and the foundation.  It ain't going anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/STEEL-CITY-1-Gang-Metal-Old-Work-Electrical-Box/3284610



Sounds like a plan.


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## afjes_2016 (May 8, 2020)

There may be a good chance that a GFCI receptacle will not fit in the box you suggested swimmer_spe as the box is curved towards the back. I would check the depth.

Also, any GFCI receptacle used for outdoors must be WR.  WR stands for "weather rated/resistant".

As an example you would look for a stamp on the GFCI receptacle that looks like this receptacle. "WR" Even when you are using an "in use" bubble cover.


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

afjes_2016 said:


> There may be a good chance that a GFCI receptacle will not fit in the box you suggested swimmer_spe as the box is curved towards the back. I would check the depth.
> 
> Also, any GFCI receptacle used for outdoors must be WR.  WR stands for "weather rated/resistant".
> 
> As an example you would look for a stamp on the GFCI receptacle that looks like this receptacle. "WR" Even when you are using an "in use" bubble cover.



Now that I know I can hack at the rim joist without doing any structural damage, I will talk with my local hardware store. They are good with the materials for what is need that meets code. My biggest concern was the cutting of the rim joist. 

I have an outdoor faucet on the same wall. How far away is the minimum distance it should be located?


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## afjes_2016 (May 8, 2020)

There really is no code as to the distance the outside receptacle must be from the faucet.

As long as the receptacle is the proper one and placed inside an "in use" bubble cover and in an outdoor weather resistant box you should be good to go.

If you do go with drilling holes in the weather resistant box be sure that you use silicone caulking in the screw holes. Drill your holes in the box. Then when you go to mount your box place silicone caulking in the screw hole (be generous) and then place your screw in the hole. The caulking should cover the entire screw. Best to use stainless steel screws or some other type of screw that won't rust over time. It is worth the money especially if you have to years from now unscrew the box from the wall and find that the screws have rusted. Drilling holes in the box compromises the weather resistant factor of the box. Using the tabs that mount to the back of the box is better in my opinion as it is one less chance of rusting or water/moisture penetrating the box.


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

afjes_2016 said:


> *There really is no code as to the distance the outside receptacle must be from the faucet.*
> 
> As long as the receptacle is the proper one and placed inside an "in use" bubble cover and in an outdoor weather resistant box you should be good to go.
> 
> If you do go with drilling holes in the weather resistant box be sure that you use silicone caulking in the screw holes. Drill your holes in the box. Then when you go to mount your box place silicone caulking in the screw hole (be generous) and then place your screw in the hole. The caulking should cover the entire screw. Best to use stainless steel screws or some other type of screw that won't rust over time. It is worth the money especially if you have to years from now unscrew the box from the wall and find that the screws have rusted. Drilling holes in the box compromises the weather resistant factor of the box. Using the tabs that mount to the back of the box is better in my opinion as it is one less chance of rusting or water/moisture penetrating the box.



What is best practice? I have about 6 feet to play with. What would you do as the minimum distance?

I do plan to mount it from the inside of the house. I can easily get to it.


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## afjes_2016 (May 8, 2020)

Best practice really does not matter with this. The only thing you should keep in mind is that even though the box and bubble cover is rated as "weather resistant" you should never spray water directly at the receptacle box. Weather resistant or rated boxes etc (even a disconnect that is rated NEMA 3R) is not rated for direct spray. so as long as you don't plan on taking your garden hose and pumping up the pressure like in a pressure washer and aiming it directly at the receptacle box/cover and saying to yourself "let's see how much this baby can take" you are good to go. If you accidentally direct spray it with the garden hose one day no biggie either. Just don't try and flood it.

For your "comfort zone" as far away from the faucet as possible within your "play area". Sound good?


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## swimmer_spe (May 8, 2020)

afjes_2016 said:


> Best practice really does not matter with this. The only thing you should keep in mind is that even though the box and bubble cover is rated as "weather resistant" you should never spray water directly at the receptacle box. Weather resistant or rated boxes etc (even a disconnect that is rated NEMA 3R) is not rated for direct spray. so as long as you don't plan on taking your garden hose and pumping up the pressure like in a pressure washer and aiming it directly at the receptacle box/cover and saying to yourself "let's see how much this baby can take" you are good to go. If you accidentally direct spray it with the garden hose one day no biggie either. Just don't try and flood it.
> 
> For your "comfort zone" as far away from the faucet as possible within your "play area". Sound good?



I was figuring about 3 feet away.


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## bud16415 (May 8, 2020)

swimmer_spe said:


> I am not planning on just putting the wire through there. I plan to cut a hole in it big enough for the receptacle box to fit in so I can mount it there.


I personally wouldn’t do all that cutting and fitting. I have several mounted to the surface and they are fine. The only time I would recess one if it was going in a walkway.


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## Jeff Handy (May 9, 2020)

Do not chop that big hole in the rim joist. 
Just drill a hole for metal conduit to reach the outside, then mount an elbow outside and go up about two feet more in conduit, then mount a box. 
You can come into the box from the bottom. 

That way, the receptacle box won’t be down near ground level, and will be less likely to be buried in snow. 
And easier to reach without stooping. 

You can mount a junction box inside where you drill through the rim joist, and feed it with whatever is code, romex, armored cable, or wires in conduit. 
From that box up to the exterior box you can use individual 14 gauge wires for 15 amps. 
And make it a double receptacle gfci box. 
You will always find stuff to plug in there, especially holiday lighting while phone charging etc, more outlets is more better.


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## swimmer_spe (May 9, 2020)

Jeff Handy said:


> Do not chop that big hole in the rim joist.
> Just drill a hole for metal conduit to reach the outside, then mount an elbow outside and go up about two feet more in conduit, then mount a box.
> You can come into the box from the bottom.
> 
> ...



The place where I want it is nearly 4 feet from grade. With a 2 foot high deck being built, the outlet would still be 2 feet high from where snow will accumulate.


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## Sparky617 (May 11, 2020)

swimmer_spe said:


> The place where I want it is nearly 4 feet from grade. With a 2 foot high deck being built, the outlet would still be 2 feet high from where snow will accumulate.



Unless the outlet will stick out into a walkway, I'd do a surface mount like I recommended above.  The rim joist can handle the hole for the box, but I wouldn't bother.  The box I linked is designed for weather exposure.  They are available in other colors or could be painted to match your siding.


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