# Trying to level my house and the wall is pulling away from the floor. Yikes!



## Donny (Sep 3, 2014)

Ok so I tried to level this house myself. My problem is that when I lift on the beam in front of the house,the wall bows out and pulls away from the floor. I then tried to install some 2x6's under the wall. Attaching them to a joist then bracing that joist against the next. I installed a temp 2x6 to jack on,hoping to take the weight off the beam and push it back into place. Needless to say it did not work. Any ideas?

Here are 2 pics on the outside. Then a pic of my temp bracing that failed. 2 pics to show how the foundation is framed. The last shows the interior wall bowing,I have tape covering the gap


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 3, 2014)

Houses settle gradually over time. Trying to jack it up quickly can cause problems. Every action, has an equal and opposite reaction. Jacking in the wrong spot can cause issues. If you are not familiar with load points in a structure, stop, consult an engineer or contractor before you cause catastrophic failure. You don't want to drop it on your head. : eek:


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## nealtw (Sep 3, 2014)

Catastrophic failure is near.
Was there a gap between the floor and wall before you started?
Is the bow out directly above the jacking point?
Can you post a photo from further away so we can see the roof line as well as the bottom of the wall?
Is someone living in the house now?


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## zannej (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm no pro, but on something like jacking up a house-- which others have mentioned could lead to catastrophic failure-- you might just want to call a professional house leveler in. 

It's not exactly a DIY job unless you absolutely know what you are doing and have the right equipment for the job.

I'm also wondering if that sort of thing requires any permits...


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## Donny (Sep 3, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Catastrophic failure is near.
> Was there a gap between the floor and wall before you started?
> Is the bow out directly above the jacking point?
> Can you post a photo from further away so we can see the roof line as well as the bottom of the wall?
> Is someone living in the house now?



No gap pre leveling.
I used several jacks but more or less yes.
Will take a few pics in the morning.
Yes the gf and I.
I will add that while the wall pulling away from the floor is new. The beams on the front of the house have been angled since before I bought the house 12years ago.


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## nealtw (Sep 3, 2014)

It appears that you cut away a piece of 2x6 in order to install your blocking. If that's true was it down with the beam when you started.
And is it the rim joist?


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## Donny (Sep 4, 2014)

Here are some pics from further away. The piece of trim on the side I pulled loose to remove some siding. The 2x6's I installed from the backside. I cut the one old one because my Helper got a couple to long and it was easier to cut the facing 2x6.

I do not know what a rim joist is.


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## bud16415 (Sep 4, 2014)

How many inches did you jack it up and over how much time? 

How far out of level is the house? 

Has the house always been out for as long as you have had it? 12 years?

What do you think caused the out of level condition? Piers sinking slowly into soil? 

Is there a plan if you did get it up to build a better foundation? Or just shim again to old piers?


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## Donny (Sep 4, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> How many inches did you jack it up and over how much time?
> 
> How far out of level is the house?
> 
> ...



I started at the easiest places. My plan was to start by the high side. Raise it enough to get a 1x and termite shield under it. This would allow for less digging. I wanted to faux level the house. Neaten the higher spots and bring up the low spots no more then 4inchs,as to do as little damage as possible. No more then an inch and a half at a time. At this point the front is with in a quarter inch of start.

I did get some bids on the job. One contractor said I am 7in from lowest to highest. He said the house will be level when he is done but it will damage all my sheetrock and maybe my metal roof. Another contractor said not to completely level the house,as to not risk damaging the roof and he will faux level for about $400 less but that's not much less on a job this size.

House has prob settled about 3/4 inch since I bought it over the 12years. Now the wall bow is not completely new but it just pulled away from the floor after starting on the front.

Cause a combination of improper building and settling. I doubt the house was level and square when built 60years ago.

I was going to put bigger blocks,termite shields and replace any joists that are needed. Add bracing for a master bath and later add on a room.


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

It looks like you jacked the floor up insted of the beam under the wall.
The rim joist is the joist under the outside wall..
Looks like this was an addition and it wasn' tied to the house very well.

There are to many things to look at and wonder about, to many if, buts and what abouts never mind the danger of sending someone under the house.

I do think you have to hire an engineer .


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

We all see movies of poeple pushing buttons and raising houses but that's not how you do it when you don't have all that equipment.
It's more like 1/8" a day and see how it reacts and adjust the plan to fit the situation.


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## Donny (Sep 4, 2014)

nealtw said:


> We all see movies of poeple pushing buttons and raising houses but that's not how you do it when you don't have all that equipment.
> It's more like 1/8" a day and see how it reacts and adjust the plan to fit the situation.



Picking up the house isn't a problem. I just need guidance on getting the wall in so I can brace it and start lifting. The contractors range from doing this job in 1 to 3 days. I think this is a bit quick and would prefer to do it myself. However I do have a contractor picked out just incase.


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## Jungle (Sep 4, 2014)

They forgot to put foundation in your house, oh well always time to do it again and again and..


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## slownsteady (Sep 4, 2014)

2x6 lumber is not up to the task of bracing the house. Someone here can probably give you more details. Stop & research a bunch before you continue.


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

Donny said:


> Picking up the house isn't a problem. I just need guidance on getting the wall in so I can brace it and start lifting. The contractors range from doing this job in 1 to 3 days. I think this is a bit quick and would prefer to do it myself. However I do have a contractor picked out just incase.



Like he said, there will be some damage to drywall.
When I have levelled houses, first you look at what can go wrong and where to start. We always pick on the low spots first and figure out where the bearing points are to plan on where best to put the jack. Once we have the worst low spot coming up we start to look at the next low and then the next. 1/8 to 1/4 at a time and move from one jack point to another.

What scares me about your house. It seems the wall was holding up the floor, and when you jacked it, correct me if I am wrong, you jacked up the floor joist instead of the beam that is down so far. That I think bent the floor in a curve and the wall feeling the pressure slipped side ways.

The cure if there is one, well the only thing I can come up with is to lower it back down. Run a saws-all under the wall plate to remove debree and bent nails and push the wall back in place. Might be easier said than done but it can be done. Replace the missing rim joist and then jack up the beam while keeping a close eye on the wall.


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## Donny (Sep 4, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Like he said, there will be some damage to drywall.
> When I have levelled houses, first you look at what can go wrong and where to start. We always pick on the low spots first and figure out where the bearing points are to plan on where best to put the jack. Once we have the worst low spot coming up we start to look at the next low and then the next. 1/8 to 1/4 at a time and move from one jack point to another.
> 
> What scares me about your house. It seems the wall was holding up the floor, and when you jacked it, correct me if I am wrong, you jacked up the floor joist instead of the beam that is down so far. That I think bent the floor in a curve and the wall feeling the pressure slipped side ways.
> ...


 
I started with the 4x6 lowest beam. It was slated before I began. At first jacking on it began to straighten the beam but bow the wall. After that I tried the extra 2x6's ran from the rim joist to the next 2 floor joists and jacked up on that close to the 4x6. I used 6 jacks there and had 2 just incase holding a tidge on the 4x6. The idea was to take the weight off the beam and push it back into place. No matter how I try to lift It pulls the wall away.


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

Am I correct in thinking the roof line above the door and window was fairly straight before you started?


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

Let's confirm a few things. 
A platform house, the floor is built first and the walls sit on that.
A balloon frame the walls are built first and the floor is hung off of that in some fashion.
Can you confirm which you have?
Is there no sheeting behind the siding?


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## Donny (Sep 4, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Let's confirm a few things.
> A platform house, the floor is built first and the walls sit on that.
> A balloon frame the walls are built first and the floor is hung off of that in some fashion.
> Can you confirm which you have?
> Is there no sheeting behind the siding?



Roof line still looks pretty good.
I think it is platform and sub floor replaced pre my ownership.
No sheeting


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## nealtw (Sep 4, 2014)

Replaced, as in cut out removed and replaced. The old sub floor went under the walls, the question is how did they attach new to old. If they did a questionable joint there that will explain alot.
When You were under there did you happen to take not of the joint between the two or anything to hint at what they did?
I have had a few plans on how to pull the wall back but I keep coming with reasons they won't work.


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## slownsteady (Sep 5, 2014)

buttress from the outside and gradually push it back into place? Then maybe find some way to secure it on the inside at least temporarily. This is just a suggestion up for discussion.


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## bud16415 (Sep 5, 2014)

Things bow, bend etc. because all the forces in the house want to reach equilibrium. Starting out your house was at a state of  equilibrium over many years of a genital pull of all the weight of the building left it where it was. Over time the wood also took a set and the change slowed down. 

If you go in and make a point or even 6 points of load around one area all the weight of the building starts moving thru the structure. If a bent beam straightens it gets longer and everything attached to it has to stretch and move with it things that can&#8217;t move have to break or separate. That&#8217;s why your wall pulled away. Pushing that back will cause other things to move as everything is attached to everything. 

My advice has always been to work super slow and don&#8217;t try and fix many years of movement in a day or two. In fact I always felt it better to stabilize things not level them and then do what it takes to make it livable. If you start lifting an area and its moving back into place and not causing damage in other places that&#8217;s one thing and I can see putting it where it goes and then securing it. But if it&#8217;s tearing the house apart I don&#8217;t think you are doing things any good to keep going.


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## Donny (Sep 5, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Replaced, as in cut out removed and replaced. The old sub floor went under the walls, the question is how did they attach new to old. If they did a questionable joint there that will explain alot.
> When You were under there did you happen to take not of the joint between the two or anything to hint at what they did?
> I have had a few plans on how to pull the wall back but I keep coming with reasons they won't work.



The beam and rim joist look to have pulled away by the door and had been patched previous to me. Their patch has failed.


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## Donny (Sep 5, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> Things bow, bend etc. because all the forces in the house want to reach equilibrium. Starting out your house was at a state of  equilibrium over many years of a genital pull of all the weight of the building left it where it was. Over time the wood also took a set and the change slowed down.
> 
> If you go in and make a point or even 6 points of load around one area all the weight of the building starts moving thru the structure. If a bent beam straightens it gets longer and everything attached to it has to stretch and move with it things that cant move have to break or separate. Thats why your wall pulled away. Pushing that back will cause other things to move as everything is attached to everything.
> 
> My advice has always been to work super slow and dont try and fix many years of movement in a day or two. In fact I always felt it better to stabilize things not level them and then do what it takes to make it livable. If you start lifting an area and its moving back into place and not causing damage in other places thats one thing and I can see putting it where it goes and then securing it. But if its tearing the house apart I dont think you are doing things any good to keep going.



 I have been back and forth on the house. I love the location and the only thing it needs is to be level and a big bath put in. I have the room for the bath. It is paid for and I can spend a little here and there and make it what I want then great. That's what I am trying to do.

On the other hand the house may never be what I want and renting it out will pay a good bit of the note on another place.

At this point I feel I have opened Pandora's box and have to finish what I started regardless!

I do like the idea of slowly raising it and not the full 7inches. However if I get a pro to do it. The job will be done in a day or up to 3days. Done their way. I am still getting bids.


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## bud16415 (Sep 5, 2014)

When you say 7 inches, that is over how many feet? If you took a transit and shot the house is the whole house tilted equally over the whole length or does it have rise and fall? You could take a string level and draw a line around the house using some reference height like the inside floor or the plate or some such thing and would the house be on a tilt as a whole. That would be one condition. The other would be where just parts of it fell and other things are plumb and level still. If the second case is true things have to give in the process. Stuff like drywall and roofs could have been done after it had sunk and thos things like your wall might come apart. 

If you could stabilize it could you level the floors as required by adding to them?


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## Donny (Sep 5, 2014)

7inch over a 28 feet the other corner is about 6inch over the same 28 feet. I added a bit of material after ike but that's as much as I want to do topside. The floor is fairly new.


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## nealtw (Sep 5, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> buttress from the outside and gradually push it back into place? Then maybe find some way to secure it on the inside at least temporarily. This is just a suggestion up for discussion.



Pushing it may knock the house off blocks.


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## nealtw (Sep 5, 2014)

Donny said:


> The beam and rim joist look to have pulled away by the door and had been patched previous to me. Their patch has failed.



You said the subfloor had been changed, do you think they changed the joist to while they were at it?

Either way, I think the wall was not attached to the floor.
I am still thinking if you lower the beam again the wall will go back in place fairly easily, don't force it just use a bigger hammer.
You may have to play around with the floor and the wall until they line up on the same plane and then find some way to attach the two, over kill the patch, what ever it is.
And then solve the pivit point problem, when youy jacked it up the beam leaning out and ony pushing up on the outside of the wall made the wall lean. that has to be solid bearing. You have to figure out how to bet the beam sitting level before you jack it again.

In fact under each side of doors and windows where the jack and kings studs are there should be solid blooking inside the rim joist to give better bearing for the extra weight they carry. All that means is double joists in thoses areas for 5 or 6 inches on each side of every opening.
But on this house anywhere you want to jack you also want to double up the rim on the inside so the push is even and not just on the outside like here.


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## zannej (Sep 6, 2014)

Yikes. Sounds like a complicated job. I'm sorry that I can't contribute but I really hope you get things straightened out without serious damage or extreme cost.

Isn't there some way to create footers? Like don't they sell some tubes that look like cardboard that you sink in to the ground and then fill with cement as a small foundation to help prevent the pillars from sinking?

I'm trying to remember how deep they have to go, but I don't know what their load capacity is.

I'm thinking of something like the thing on the left






Also, not sure if this is helpful or not:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84qplcTbIBU[/ame]


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## Donny (Sep 7, 2014)

Looks like I am going the contractor route. It is not a done deal yet,he still has to draw up the contract. He is the lowest bidder...As a precaution I plan on being at home the first day. I also have him breaking up the usual half upfront and half after into 3 payments. As to have a slightly better money leverage.


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## zannej (Sep 7, 2014)

Ok. You checked to make sure he's licensed and bonded with insurance right? Because if something goes wrong, you want to make sure you can be compensated.

Good luck! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 7, 2014)

Don't confuse cheapest with equal value. Usually polar opposites.


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## nealtw (Sep 7, 2014)

Keep us posted, we do want to know what they find and how they fixed it.


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## Donny (Sep 8, 2014)

zannej said:


> Ok. You checked to make sure he's licensed and bonded with insurance right? Because if something goes wrong, you want to make sure you can be compensated.
> 
> Good luck! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.



I honestly think only one of the contractors out of 5 that bid this job was bonded and insured. He was not the one hired. None of the contractors inspired to much confidence. That's one of the reasons I will be on site!


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## slownsteady (Sep 8, 2014)

Did any of the contractors discuss the wall problem with you? What was their thoughts about it?


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## Jungle (Sep 8, 2014)

They forgot the foundation for your house...


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## Donny (Sep 8, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> Did any of the contractors discuss the wall problem with you? What was their thoughts about it?



 The concensus seems to be that this is an easy house. None seemed to think this is much of an issue. They have all seen much worse.

 The fellow I plan on hiring said that the whole house settled at the same time and it all has to be raised at the same time. Right now the wall is holding up to much weight. The other beams don't have much weight on them. The front wall is holding up the entire roof.


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## slownsteady (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks for answering. I would have been grilling all the guys for as much info as I could get on the situation. Maybe that's as much as they have. Any contractor is going to say "sure, no problem". i was wondering how they're going to pull it back in.


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## nealtw (Sep 8, 2014)

Wait a minute: We understand the front wall is holding all the weight of the roof, that is the design of that house. They have to address why the wall pulled away from the floor, if theyt do not see that as a special problem, keep shopping.


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## slownsteady (Sep 8, 2014)

I've heard about "strapping" the house. Anybody want to explain a little about that?


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## nealtw (Sep 8, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> I've heard about "strapping" the house. Anybody want to explain a little about that?



Earthquake zone, stress wall that are blocked across the 4 ft mark with staps coming out of fondation that nail to the walls, like 20 nails each. Straps that go from lower walls to higher walls. All just to keep the house together for a minute or two of shaking so people can get out.


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## Donny (Sep 8, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Wait a minute: We understand the front wall is holding all the weight of the roof, that is the design of that house. They have to address why the wall pulled away from the floor, if theyt do not see that as a special problem, keep shopping.



 My guess is that by picking up the wall behind the front wall that the rafters will lift on the wall and allow it to be pushed in?

 I did google stalk the contractors,as in BBB,angies list and look at their business location. Almost all are homes,or manufactured homes and pretty modest...
 Only one had a real business location,he was the most vague. He offered to do a patch job at $3400. Half upfront,half on completion. Did have good reviews.
 The one that is licensed and bonded sounded as if he was going to destroy the place but it would be level at $3900. Paid after job is done. Did have good reviews.
 The highest bidder at $4,650 and doing less work the the above bidder. Half upfront,half on completion. Also on their finished job pics,had a crooked block and no termite shields 
 One fellow I told I would not be willing to pay half upfront but would pay cash daily. Didn't even entertain the thought nor give me a bid.
 The contractor I chose but have not seen contract yet. Did tell me what walls to expect damage,told me to remove some trim and 2 pieces of paneling to keep them from bowing or breaking. Gave me the most info. Split up the normal half and half to paid 3 times for the expected 3 days. Total price of $1600 and I buy the wood for the joist that need replacing. But he is nearly off the grid. Only having a simple web site and his number in the local phone book. No bbb. I take back the no bbb, He got an A+ I just had a hard time finding his bbb.


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## nealtw (Sep 8, 2014)

Picking the right guy is treaky. What bothers me is that everyone here that is interested in your problem would love to crawl around your house and see just why the from wall moved because that just dosn't happen with a platform house. If they don't treat it like the big deal that it is they could do a lot of dammage in short order. Maybe they have seen it before and know how to fix it but I would think by now you would be able to tell us what they think and how they are going to fix it. Keep in mind that your wall has no sheeting behind the siding, so there is no strength what so ever except for what it was built for. I will say it again, keep shopping or at least make sure there is good remarks about that and other sections of wall are in the contract. So when everything goes south they can't say that it is outside the contract.
Don't be afraid to ask about that and when they give you the verble, make nots on the back of the contract, just what ever they say and have them sign the notes.


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## slownsteady (Sep 8, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Earthquake zone, stress wall that are blocked across the 4 ft mark with staps coming out of fondation that nail to the walls, like 20 nails each. Straps that go from lower walls to higher walls. All just to keep the house together for a minute or two of shaking so people can get out.



I guess that's another definition. I had heard it in the context of jacking the house up. Bracing across the walls.


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## nealtw (Sep 8, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> I guess that's another definition. I had heard it in the context of jacking the house up. Bracing across the walls.



House movers set the house on steel beams that don't allway line up with bearing points so the screw 2x12 across the walls as and extra beam to carry the load. You always see it when the garage is attached to the house but has no floor to hold it together.


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## Chris (Sep 8, 2014)

I personally don't hire any contractors that want money up front. To me that means that they are in it to do a good job and know that they have to in order to get paid.


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## Donny (Sep 9, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Picking the right guy is treaky. What bothers me is that everyone here that is interested in your problem would love to crawl around your house and see just why the from wall moved because that just dosn't happen with a platform house. If they don't treat it like the big deal that it is they could do a lot of dammage in short order. Maybe they have seen it before and know how to fix it but I would think by now you would be able to tell us what they think and how they are going to fix it. Keep in mind that your wall has no sheeting behind the siding, so there is no strength what so ever except for what it was built for. I will say it again, keep shopping or at least make sure there is good remarks about that and other sections of wall are in the contract. So when everything goes south they can't say that it is outside the contract.
> Don't be afraid to ask about that and when they give you the verble, make nots on the back of the contract, just what ever they say and have them sign the notes.



This crudely drawn pic is as close as I can get you to getting to crawl under my house. Not that you are not invited lol.

 I hate hiring contractors. My first exp was a bad one and left me with a new roof that leaked. After that I did everything myself except for some plumbing. My plumbers were great! However when I had a busted pipe and needed them they were not available! I ended up having to fix it myself.


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## Donny (Sep 9, 2014)

Not to scale and does not have correct amount of joists.


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## nealtw (Sep 9, 2014)

Your drawing is fine, But what happened to the plywood that should be between the wall and the joist that should not have allowed the bowing.


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## Donny (Sep 9, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Your drawing is fine, But what happened to the plywood that should be between the wall and the joist that should not have allowed the bowing.



It has been cut out and replaced. No longer under the wall.


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## inspectorD (Sep 9, 2014)

Donny said:


> It has been cut out and replaced. No longer under the wall.



And there is your answer. The plywood is the diaphragm which holds it together.  Have your professionals look into the issue because you absolutely have to have those connections to raise, or fix the home.
Good luck


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## nealtw (Sep 9, 2014)

Donny said:


> It has been cut out and replaced. No longer under the wall.



I am not worried about you or anyone else just raising the house but if that connection is cut all around the house I can see it where all at once front and back wall kicking out with a bang, and no house.


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## Donny (Sep 9, 2014)

Well guys he starts tomarrow. I took the day off work as to be where the action is. I will be ready to say OMG STOP!!! I hope it does not come to that.

As to the sub floor maybe I can add a joist to tie the wall to the sub floor. Toe nailing from the bottom of the house. After the wall is back in place of course.


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 9, 2014)

Don't forget to take lots of pics and be careful.


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## slownsteady (Sep 9, 2014)

Good luck.


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## nealtw (Sep 9, 2014)

Donny said:


> Toe nailing from the bottom of the house. After the wall is back in place of course.



Not good enough.
Get wall lined up with the floor where it should be. Cut 3/4 plywood that will fit between the rim joist and the next joist.  Glue and screw one side of the plywood to a 2x4 on edge like it was a joist. Apply glue to top of plywood and outside of the 2x4 and then install it between the rim and first joist. Screw thru to the wall above and screw the 2x4 to the joist.
This needs to be done at any place front or back where the floor has been seperated from the wall.
Then cut lumber to back up the rim joist everwhere so that you have full bearing when jacking the beam, the pressure will not be off balance.

If your guy did not have a plan like this or something close to it, he dosn't understand how dangerous this situation is.


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## slownsteady (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Is it like a large L-bracket?


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## nealtw (Sep 9, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Is it like a large L-bracket?



Yes that is it exactly and it should have been done when the subfloor was removed, I left out the short screws to screw to the floor, carefull not the damage finished floor above and the first screws should be 3"


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## Donny (Sep 10, 2014)

Well today was the first day. Only one guy working on it but he used some railroad jacks on the side of the house and on the front. Removed the beam and rim joist. Replaced the beam with a treated 4x6. The rim joist was replaced with 2x6 with some shorter 2x6's as spacers and another 2x6(all treated). He removed a small piece of old rotten sub floor with treated 1x. To push in the wall,he angled some railroad jacks and just pushed it in. 
 The gap is gone and everything looks pretty good as far as the wall goes. I am honestly impressed. No new damage in the sheetrock so far. Nothing real loud or scary lol.


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## slownsteady (Sep 10, 2014)

Great news so far. How's he going to secure that wall into place?


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## nealtw (Sep 10, 2014)

So do you think the rotted floor boards is what allowed the wall to seperate? Are confedent that the two are attached now?
Sounds like progress.


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## Donny (Sep 11, 2014)

Not much happened today. The helper aka the one that does all the work was alone today. Only worked 4-5 hours. He removed some more rim joist and the beam under that. He left that section of the house held up by some 20ton bottle jacks. I am not real happy about the bottle jacks. I put down a few concrete blocks just in case.


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## nealtw (Sep 11, 2014)

Ya, I never trust jacks, always place blocks and shims to make sure you don't lose anything after lifting it.


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## zannej (Sep 12, 2014)

Sounds like progress. I'm really hoping that it all works out with no damage. No wonder the price was so inexpensive if it seems there is only one worker. I hope he really knows what he is doing.

I know Chris said something about never paying up front, but I've heard that 10% up front is the maximum that should be paid before a job is started (and that the final payment should not be made until after the job is satisfactorily completed). A lot of contractors expect at least some down payment. I forget where I read about the 10% though. 

I'm curious about one thing: What sort of permits did you have to pull for this job? Or did you actually pull any? I would think this is something that requires permits...


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## Donny (Sep 21, 2014)

zannej said:


> Sounds like progress. I'm really hoping that it all works out with no damage. No wonder the price was so inexpensive if it seems there is only one worker. I hope he really knows what he is doing.
> 
> I know Chris said something about never paying up front, but I've heard that 10% up front is the maximum that should be paid before a job is started (and that the final payment should not be made until after the job is satisfactorily completed). A lot of contractors expect at least some down payment. I forget where I read about the 10% though.
> 
> I'm curious about one thing: What sort of permits did you have to pull for this job? Or did you actually pull any? I would think this is something that requires permits...



On the down payment thing I get where the contractors are coming from. You want to know you are getting paid. You have money out and time. A lien on a house in texas doesn't do you much good if the home owner doesn't want to pay. On the home owners side,there are just to many thieves. I figure what I did was a decent compromise. I did 3 payments.

 No permits got pulled. Most of the guys that bid the house are on the barely legal to not legal side.  I don't know if it is true but I have heard in my area it is legal to do your own repairs without permits.


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## Donny (Sep 21, 2014)

They finished yesterday. I still have some high and low spots. Some of those are due to me shimming to make things look straighter (years ago). One room is still pretty bad. What he said about it is. The wood has bowed and twisted from being so far down on one side for so long. Lifting on bowed wood just raises it. I will have to cut it out and replace: sub floor,floor and joists to get it straight...

He ended up doing some extra work on the front. A fair amount. But he did not replace the joists that was in the agreement. I told him at the beginning of the job "what the house needs you get and I will pay you for it". I didn't tell him but I knew he under bid the job.

Overall I am happy with it. He left the bathroom alone as I had asked. Stuck to his price and put fourth solid effort on the bad spots. Got the front wall in. Did damage some sheetrock but not horrorble and everyone said I would get damage.


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## nealtw (Sep 21, 2014)

Leave it for some time and see if things straight out a bit, if not you can always cut a joist and sister a new on the side of it to straighten them out. The sister would want to be close to full length.


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## zannej (Sep 24, 2014)

Donny, I'm glad it worked out with minimal damage and that the guy didn't try to raise his price.


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