# How many folks use the energy saving bulbs?



## inspectorD (Aug 12, 2006)

This should be a good start. I use them in ALL my fixtures now. They are a little more expensive and do not throw as much light,however I can live with it. Even the swirls. If you have them you know what I mean. 
I like the idea of if I leave a light on overnight they also stay cooler than the regular bulbs.

I have no spotlights on the exterior, I suppose this may create an issue for some.

Exterior is solar lighting, we actually have a few which are really bright for being solar.


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## glennjanie (Aug 12, 2006)

Janie and I have been switching all our bulbs to the swirls or changing light fixtrues and lamps to flourescent on an as needed basis.
We also replaced the refrigerator, washer and dryer with energy star appliances plus geothermal heat pump, and low-flow shower head. Our geothermal heats domestic hot water with latent heat from the compressor (2 birds with one stone). We have contracted for additional insulation and vinyl siding on our home.
Outside the home, we have parked the Fourrunner (21 mpg) for extended periods and bought a Prius (50 mpg). I have mounds of research on using chicken litter, swine manure and human sludge to make diesel fuel or ethanol.
Don't get me wrong now, I'm not an Al Gore fan; I am just saving my money and preparing for retirement.
Glenn


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## Square Eye (Aug 16, 2006)

I use the Compact flourescents in part of my shop. They get dimmer as they go, I don't care for that. The light is different, but as you said, it is liveable.

We also use one on the back of the house. I've had to change it 3 times in the last 6 years. Not bad for a light that stays on all night every night. It's not bright enough to bother the neighbors, but is plenty for us in the back yard to see what's going on.

They seem to work better and last longer when they are turned upwards, I suppose it creates less heat on the ballast.
Also, you can't use dimmers with them. Limits the places where you can use them.


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## mechanicalmonster (Aug 24, 2006)

I use cfls like crazy. During the summer time I use them in all my fixtures. They use less power and fight the ac less. During the winter I do switch back to incandescents because it does help some with the heat.(kerosene is expensive) I have also switched from crt monitors as they went out to lcd monitors that helps with the power bill and cooling also not to mention I have alot more space on my desks.


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## TxBuilder (Aug 25, 2006)

Another CFL users when I can here. A lot of the fixtures in my 50 year old house won't accept them though. Slowly replacing and redoing the wiring to each. The previous electrician loved to leave bare wires for some reason.


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## Sven (Sep 7, 2006)

I use them for just about everything, except for my spot lights which are halogen used for working in the shop.


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## bethany14 (Sep 8, 2006)

We use cfls wherever we can.  We have a couple in our bathroom vanity fixture and I turned the entire fixture upside down.  Initially I did it for looks, but now there's much less heat bearing down on the tops of our heads   I made the switch here when I moved in, a little more than a year ago.  So far, they're holding up fine.  They sometimes take a moment to get up to full light, but that's fine by me, I prefer gradual lighting to instant blindness--especially in the mornings


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## green girl (Aug 19, 2007)

In both our places we use T8 fixtures wherever we can and cfl's everywhere else. In the 60's home, we also use X10 switches.


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## Kerrylib (Aug 20, 2007)

CFL's in as many places as practical.  Pretty much all the lamps through the house, replacing bulbs in ceiling fixtures as necessary.  Want to find dimmable CFLs so we can put them in places like the dining room.

Some low profile halogen ceiling fixtures that we can't do much with besides plan to replace them.  These are HOT.  The main kitchen light is right underneath the center of our guest room.  You can walk barefoot upstairs and feel a warm spot on the floor right where the light fixture is located.  THATS TOO HOT in my opinion.

Just blew a bulb in the master bath and planning to get some of the globe CFLs to fill that back up.


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## Quattro (Aug 20, 2007)

Ditto on Kerrylib's post. CFL's just aren't practical everywhere in my opinion. Rooms where you need light for just 10 seconds or so...say to grab something from a shelf or box. The CFL's I have don't get fully bright until 20-30 seconds.

I do use them where I can. Desk and reading lamps, mostly. We just don't leave lights on usually. In the kitchen we have some 20W Xenon underlighting...which is also used sparingly.


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## travelover (Aug 20, 2007)

CFLs -I use them for every indoor application that is not dimmable, except closets. The new ones don't flicker, last a long time and are much cheaper than a few years ago. I'm sold.


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## Boston (Sep 11, 2007)

We use LEDs lately for hallways.  It should last us almost forever LOL.


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## phreaq (Sep 24, 2007)

I have finally switched over all my lights to CFLs, but I'm not 100% happy with them, as I can't find ones bright enough. My old lights were 300 watt beasts, that were a physically larger bulb and had a different size thread. I bought adapters to convert the thread size down, but it's very difficult to find anything more than a 26w CFL, which is the equiv of about 100 watts incandesant I believe.

of course my hydro bill will be 11.5 times less, but my light is 1/3.


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## glennjanie (Sep 24, 2007)

I have seen adapters that screw into a standard bulb socket and branch out for two more bulbs but you would still be short 1/3. Perhaps someone will come out with a 3 bulb adapter soon. Check the big box stores.
Glenn


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## travelover (Nov 22, 2007)

Educator said:


> Has anyone found enery saving light bulbs which can be used on exterior motion sensor lights?
> 
> We could not have therefore have to use on our three motion sensor lights (two out the front, one out the back) non-energy saving bulbs.
> 
> Thanks plenty.



Unless your motion sensing lights are on quite often, CFLs might not make sense in this application. CFLs take a while to get to full brightness and if only run for a few minutes a night, will not save much electricity.


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## inspectorD (Nov 25, 2007)

There are some solar motion detector lights on the market. I bought mine 3 years ago and it is bright and still works fine. Try to google solar motion lights. Mine is a spotlight which I purchased at Lowes .


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## phreaq (Nov 27, 2007)

I have one of the solar motion lights also..... but I find it doesn't always work. Some nights it turns on, some nights not so much. I checked the LED light, and made sure juice was coming from the battery, but not sure what the issue is.

That aside, they are great!


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## Rustedbird (Dec 25, 2007)

I replaced all my interior lights except four with CFL's. The exceptions are two touch lamps, the oven and the fridge. Electric bill much better now. I even stuck em' in the track lights.


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## Kerrylib (Jan 3, 2008)

I just found Dimmable CFLs at Target.  Of course the $12.99 price per bulb is a bit steep, I went ahead and bought one to put into our dining room fixture.

I am happy to report it works well.  I figure as the old incandescents burn out, I will replace the other bulbs as well.

The one thing with this bulb is when trying to dim it WAAAAAY down, you get to it's lowest threshold and instead of dimming, it starts to flash like a strobe light.  (Could be put to good use sometime like halloween)

For now I give it a thumbs up.


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## cheesefood (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been using CFL's for a while now and like 'em. Moved into a new house with those super-inefficient light bars in the bathroom. Wife left it on one day with the door closed. I opened the door and it must have been 10-15 degrees warmer in there from those stupid lights.


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## AU_Prospector (Jan 20, 2008)

I use them almost everywhere except outdoors.  Outdoor flood bulbs are worthless especially in cold weather months when they never seem to warm up to full brightness and emit almost no light at all for several minutes.  During the summer they are okay, but it would be too much of a hassle to climb to the second story of my home and rotate the lighting source twice a year. 

1)  The quality of these bulbs seem to be inconsistient...  but I do admit they seem to be better lately. 
a)  I have had several bulbs fail way before their time not even coming close to stated longevity on occassion.  Even recently a brand new bulb failed just a few hours after initial start up.  (doesnt happen as often as it used to)  Some of my first bulbs were SunBeam manufactured, they were the worst.
b)  I have had bulbs coming from the same multipack emit different types of light (ie some yellow/warm light and some blue/cool light right from the same pack.  I have had to switch bulbs to try and even out light from multilight fixtures so it doesnt look goofy. 
c)  Many have noisy ballasts, even new ones I get today.  The buzzing sound can be irritating.  Some quiet down after warm up, some dont. 
d)  Most bulbs emit a cold harsh blue light.  In some of my multi bulb fixtures I mix in normal incandecents to soften this effect. 
e)  Because I slowly rotated in my CFL's, I really didnt notice a savings in electricity.  I usually dont use much electricity anyway and what I use is diverse so I really didnt notice a savings.  In other words I have to "believe" the wattage and power savings claims. 

Which leads me to my question.  .  .   CFL's still generate a lot of heat, how on earth can a 23W CFL only use 23 Watts when it generates a significant amount of light, plus some heat?  Many are too hot to handle when they are on...

Anyone?  I use CFL's and would recommend them for potential energy savings, just pointing out they are not flawless. . . 

Thanks!
Prospector


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## travelover (Jan 23, 2008)

Educator said:


> I actually had to replace the energy saving bulbs in the laundry room ceiling light with regular ones this weekend when I installed a wireless light switch which did not work with the energy saving bulbs...........................Dan



Glad to hear this worked out for you.


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## inspectorD (Jan 23, 2008)

And we all used to laugh at the "clapper" 
My brother in law installed a home system where the lights in certain rooms turn off and on with the temp of your body....where do we go next.


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## TheFentonGuy (Jan 28, 2008)

When we bought our home in 2005, I paid a pretty penny (about $250) and replaced every light bulb in our 1955 cape - 4 bedroom 1 bath with them.  I now know that there are some new improved (2nd and 3rd generation) CFL's that provide "sun light" quality and also turn on immediately.  I pay just as much in electricity in my house as I did in my 2 bedroom apt (had a halogen lamp, which was a big zapper in my bill).

Each year for Christmas, for the last 2 years, I've paid for my parent's and my grandparents whole house conversion over to CFL's.  They both say that they got an immediate drop in their bill and they are so happy!

I recommend them to anyone!


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## nma (Aug 20, 2010)

Modern CFLs get bright pretty much immediately.


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 22, 2010)

inspectorD said:


> And we all used to laugh at the "clapper"
> My brother in law installed a home system where the lights in certain rooms turn off and on with the temp of your body....*where do we go next*.



How about a CFL chandelier?


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## mudmixer (Aug 22, 2010)

old dog -

I agree with the remark plus I don't think any chandelier should have exposed bulbs and especially the ugly ceiling fans that are far to common.

I had to hunt to find a fan with either up or down lighting using  conventional circular florescents controlled by a remote. - Great fan and am trying to find another and slightly smaller.

To the original post - I try to use the CFLs wherever possible. but the older ones are a little slow in the lighting capacity in cold environments, but the newer ones are noticeably better than 5 years ago. I hope they improve the compatibility with timed switches, because I use them wherever possible. Avoid the cheap motion sensors to control because of the limited sensing and the lack of duration sensing. I love walking into a room that turns on the lights automatically and shuts them down when you leave.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Aug 23, 2010)

AU_Prospector said:


> b)  I have had bulbs coming from the same multipack emit different types of light (ie some yellow/warm light and some blue/cool light right from the same pack.  I have had to switch bulbs to try and even out light from multilight fixtures so it doesnt look goofy.
> 
> d)  Most bulbs emit a cold harsh blue light.  In some of my multi bulb fixtures I mix in normal incandecents to soften this effect.
> 
> Which leads me to my question.  .  .   CFL's still generate a lot of heat, how on earth can a 23W CFL only use 23 Watts when it generates a significant amount of light, plus some heat?  Many are too hot to handle when they are on...



People should be aware that CFL bulbs can be purchased in four different light spectrums, or light "colours"; Soft White, Bright White, Cool White and Daylight.  As you go from Soft White to Daylight, the spectrum of the light produced by the bulb contains less and less red light and more and more blue light.  It could be that you bought a package of CFL bulbs that someone else had returned, and since the bulbs don't indicate what kind of light they produce, you got an assortment of different kinds of CFL bulbs in the package.  That's the only way you could get different results from bulbs from the same package, or why you're saying that most bulbs emit a "harsh blue light".  You just need to pay attention to what KIND of CFL's you're buying.

"Soft White" CFL bulbs produce light that's most similar to an incandescent light bulb, and it's what most people prefer.  If you look for the words "Soft White" or "Bright White" on a package of CFL's, I think you'll be happy with the purchase.

"Daylight" CFL bulbs are the ones that produce the "cold harsh blue light" that resembles the light from an arc welder.  These bulbs produce light that has a uniform intensity of all the different frequencies of visible light, so it's the "whitest" light available from a CFL.  If you take pictures indoors with a digital camera, these bulbs won't cause all your pictures to be brown the way incandescent bulbs will (if you don't use a flash).

The reason a 23 watt CFL can produce the same light output as a 100 watt incandescent bulb is because the incandescent bulb works by generating a lot of heat, all of which is wasted.  MOST of the energy consumed by a 100 watt incandescent bulb is converted into heat, and the light it produces is a byproduct of that heat.  With CFL's, MOST of the energy consumed is converted into light, and only a bit of the energy is converted into heat.

PS:
The way all fluorescent lights work is that an electric current flows through mercury vapour, and when an electron hits a mercury atom, it produces a ray of ultraviolet light.  The phosphors on the inside of the fluorescent tube or CFL spiral then convert that ray of UV light into a ray of visible light.  So, you can change the kind of light a CFL or fluorescent tube produces by playing with the kinds of phosphors you coat the inside of the tube with.

It's that mercury they put in CFL's that's causing concern over potential mercury pollution because with every CFL bulb someone tosses into their garbage can, there's more mercury in the soil at landfill sites.  That mercury can eventually pollute the soil and ground water in the area.  Here in Canada the chain of Rona hardware stores have special CFL disposal bins where you can dispose of CFL bulbs and know that the mercury in them will be recycled.


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## SJNServices (Aug 26, 2010)

If you are after energy savings and want bulbs that last check out some of the L.E.D. stuff that is out now.   C. Crane Company - LED Light Bulbs - Toll Free (800) 522-8863


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## SJNServices (Aug 26, 2010)

Hey! When I cut and past that url they slipped their number in! @%[email protected]$&*


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 29, 2010)

We had a outdoor flood light that burned out and I bought a couple of 26 watt CFL's from Lowe's yesterday and wow what a difference they make. I think you could probably see them from space. We leave them on all nite just to deter any *visitors*. Hope they last longer then the regular floods I've been buying.


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## carnuck (Oct 7, 2010)

NAPA autoparts sells a HUGE 100 watt CFL #SP10550MED for spots where you need a huge amount of light for a yard or big building (I'm not as much a fan of CFLs as I used to be but DANG this thing is bright!)


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## Jimbo56 (Oct 28, 2010)

we use them at home in every room, we like to do our little bit for the environment


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## Suzienatural (Nov 1, 2010)

I am in the process of switching out all my incandescent bulbs to CFL's.  I use them on my exterior house lights as well.  I don't really notice a difference in the light they put out.  I'm really glad I can now get 3 way and dimmable CFL blubs.  Why am I doing this?  More efficient use of energy and that affects my utility bills. My ultimate goal is to be able to replace 100% of my dependence on the electric company with renewable energy.


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## Miero (Nov 6, 2010)

I also switched the oldschool bulbs to economy bulbs. I'm not quite satisfied with the blue light, I think the yellow one is the best choice. It creates a natural, cozy atmosphere.


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## MatthewLee (Mar 23, 2011)

when old one break, i tend to get the new cfl bulb, but regular ones have a better light in my opinion


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## kaytav (Apr 20, 2011)

I use energy saving bulbs in my home, and most of them are from the brand "Philips" they not only save the energy but are also long lasting bulbs and they don't heat up your room...


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## Paul79UF (Jun 16, 2011)

I think most of ours are the Nvision brand from Home Depot.

I love the 9 year warranty. I had one big 26w (100w equiv) bulb burn out prematurely since it was in a clothes closet being switched on/off all the time.

I went to the manufacturer website, put in the info from the receipt and bulb base. A few days later I got a brand new bulb in the mail. No need to send back the old one. 

So keep your receipts and the paper inserts from the original bulb packages.


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## Bryanatkinson (Jun 27, 2011)

I use Philips 15 watts 'daylight' ones.

Generally, it's better than incandescent in most aspects, except it can't be used with dimmer.


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## TxBuilder (Jun 27, 2011)

My father had some in his house until this happened and he switched back to regular bulbs.

He said instead of burning out, it literally BURNED out.


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## exportgoods (Feb 1, 2012)

Holy crap ^ That's scary. I really hope that doesn't happen to mine anytime soon.


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## mudmixer (Feb 1, 2012)

I use ICFs or LEDs wherever possible because of the economics (buy in bulk with utility sponsored pricing).

The exception is where there is a requirement for dimming or compatibility with other bulbs.

The options on the color are improving.

I had one crazy thing happen a couple of years ago when my garage door opener light was burning out quickly and the heavy duty bulbs were no better. I screwed in an ICF that I had and and it has lasted about 3 years so far. Due to cold winter temps, it starts out a little slow, but within a minute, it is at full power.

Dick


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## TxBuilder (Feb 1, 2012)

exportgoods said:


> Holy crap ^ That's scary. I really hope that doesn't happen to mine anytime soon.



It's the only time I've known of it. I pay attention to my bulbs though.


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## carnuck (Feb 2, 2012)

Since I change all the ones in our store and home, I see about 3 of those a month. Usually because they were in a high moisture environment.

Going with LEDs as these burn out. Those are nicely adjustable IF you get the 12VDC DC variety and run them through a transformer with a battery system like an RV. If the power goes out here, only the fridge quits working and a light comes on to tell me. After an hour or so, the LPG system starts to run the fridge.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 4, 2014)

We have changed every single bulb/fixture in our house inside and outside to LED.
Gives great light, no heat output, I will never have to change another bulb for as long as we live here.

I also put dimmer switches on just about every single bulb in the house so we can keep the whole house dimly lit at night, just a slight glow enough to see and each LED dimmed that low only burn about 1 watt.


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## Chris (Nov 4, 2014)

If it wouldn't cost me 500 bucks to swap to LED's I probably would.


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## Speedbump (Nov 7, 2014)

I just replaced practically every light in my home for around $200.00.  Lots of 40 watt led's, a few 60's and kept a few CFL's that I already had.  I even put four floods outside.  They were 75 watts.  The wattage I'm using is the equivalency to incandescence's.  They are actually much, much lower wattage.  The fact that they don't heat up your house is more AC friendly also.

Now, if I only had $50,000 to go solar, I could be electrically independent.


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## nealtw (Nov 7, 2014)

I want to know why new houses are not wired for low dc voltage for the lights. So when you go solar you wouldn't need a converter for the lights


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## Chris (Nov 7, 2014)

Because that would be convenient.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 8, 2014)

You can buy good LED bulbs and retrofit can lights from Costco.

I think the can lights are only $12 each which can replace every ceiling light in your house, they have ceiling lights that are large domes that are LED also plus numerous bulbs and a outdoor porch light.
I think we paid about $30 each for our can lights 3 years ago.

The porch light is $29 and is about 60W 800-900 lumens
The ceiling dome is $19 and you will need a dimmer because it is BRIGHT
The can lights are $12 also need a dimmer as they are 120W 1300 lumens

If you put in 6 can lights $72
3 ceiling domes  $57
A few assorted bulbs in lamps which are cheap now probably $20-$30 for all
a porch light $29

You should be able to LED your whole house for about $200 or less.
PLUS Dimmers if you don't have them which are the most expensive part.


About 8 years ago our Summer time electric bills were over $450/month in a 1900 sq/ft townhome.

Then we replaced our HVAC from the old probably 3 SEER Trane that was still clicking along with no problems and was about 22 years old.
To a 14 SEER Trane and 90% AFUE gas furnace.
Within a month or so also replaced our old water heater from the 22 year old one to a LifeTime guarantee 50 gallon Marathon.
Between those two the electric bill dropped dramatically like over $450 down to about $250.

Then a year or so later we replaced our old electric stove with a nice Gas stove and 19 year old refrigerator which still worked great with a new counter depth Samsung which uses less electricity.
Probably about $220.
Put in an extra R38 batting in the Attic.
Down to about $200 ish

Then a couple years later replaced all lights with LED and right after that fully encapsulated , sealed vents, R13 insulation on walls etc our crawlspace.

Now down to about $160/month and that is after I think about 3 Rate Hikes from the power company "Duke" during this time.

So really with the rate hikes if we had done nothing we were probably looking at close to $500/month and now our highest bills are around $160.00
Lowest in the $80 range.
The Crawlspace encapsulation saved about 18% in Summer not sure about winter but much less to be sure.


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## Speedbump (Nov 9, 2014)

I like what you did.  The $200 I just spent on LED's for the house hasn't shown up on my next light bill yet, but I hope it's very noticeable.  I might even have more insulation blown into the attic, that's got to help in the summer here in Florida.  I have a few more floods to replace yet and my little 1100 foot rental is next to be LED'ed.  Maybe the $50,000 for going totally solar won't even be worth it after a few more upgrades.


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## Sparky617 (Nov 10, 2014)

This thread has been around for a while and certainly shows the evolution of energy efficient lighting.  I think CFLs will become obsolete in a few years as the price of LEDs have dropped and continue to do so.  We tried some "dimmable" CFL PAR lights at church, the results were less than satisfactory.  They tend to step down rather than a continuous dim, and they definitely didn't like being on a mixed circuit with incandescent bulbs and CFLs.   I did not have the same issue with a mixed circuit of LED and incandescent PAR lights.

I've been swapping my incandescent bulbs out with LEDs as they burn out.  I have 7 can lights in my bonus room that I swapped out over about a year.  These are on a dimmer and work fine, I went with the same manufacturer on all of them incase there were differences in dimming between brands. The can above our sink was my first LED and it was $50 before a rebate. Now they are getting into the sub $20 range for PAR lights.  I just swapped out 3 candelabra lights in an outdoor fixture, I have a few more to swap outdoors before I'm done.  I have at least one exterior CFL flood right now, they do tend to start up a bit slow.

Colors on the LEDs are certainly getting better, now you can get them in a soft white instead WHITE!!!!!    Still I think it will be a while before I go LED on our dining room fixture.  It has at least 10 bulbs so completely outfitting it with LEDs would be a small fortune.  Given the frequency of use the payback at today's prices would exceed my lifetime.


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## Speedbump (Nov 10, 2014)

> Still I think it will be a while before I go LED on our dining room fixture. It has at least 10 bulbs so completely outfitting it with LEDs would be a small fortune.


Same here, although I didn't see those little bulbs at the big box store.  Maybe they are cheaper or come in a bulk box of 12.


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## Sparky617 (Nov 10, 2014)

Speedbump said:


> Same here, although I didn't see those little bulbs at the big box store.  Maybe they are cheaper or come in a bulk box of 12.



I haven't seen them in large quantities yet.  I got three at Lowe's and they were about $10 each.  Given the long life expectancy and the hours of use our outside light gets I felt it was decent investment. They also have a decent color rendition, that could work indoors in a more frequently used light. The dining fixture not so much.


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## Speedbump (Nov 10, 2014)

> I haven't seen them in large quantities yet. I got three at Lowe's and they were about $10 each. Given the long life expectancy and the hours of use our outside light gets I felt it was decent investment. They also have a decent color rendition, that could work indoors in a more frequently used light. The dining fixture not so much.


I think there are at least 8 bulbs in the Dining Room fixture.  It gets used maybe 3 - 4 times a year, so I guess I'll wait a while.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 10, 2014)

Speedbump said:


> Same here, although I didn't see those little bulbs at the big box store.  Maybe they are cheaper or come in a bulk box of 12.



I bought ours at Costco, 40W 300 lumen Chandelier LED in a 4 pack at Costco I believe at the time was only about $18 after a rebate so all 8 cost $36.


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## Speedbump (Nov 10, 2014)

That's not too bad, I'll have to check next time I go to Costco.  I saw they had LED's last trip there, but didn't see the small ones.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 10, 2014)

http://www.costco.com/Feit-Chandeli...-25,000-Hours-|-4-pack.product.100116351.html

Here ya go, they also have the globe bulbs.


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## Speedbump (Nov 11, 2014)

And they are dimmable.  That's what I need, by switch has a two speed transmission.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 11, 2014)

This dimmable high-powered 4.8-watt flame tip chandelier is a direct replacement for a incandescent 40 watt flame tip chandelier bulb.  It uses less energy than an incandescent, which saves money on energy costs and has an average life of 25,000 hours.  

^Appears to be so.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 11, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> This dimmable high-powered 4.8-watt flame tip chandelier is a direct replacement for a incandescent 40 watt flame tip chandelier bulb.  It uses less energy than an incandescent, which saves money on energy costs and has an average life of 25,000 hours.
> 
> ^Appears to be so.



Same ones I have been using over our dining table for over a year now.
8 of them are quite bright and they dim down to a faint glow.
They are perfect for over the dining room table.

I bought another type for our outside light on our deck, bit brighter.
It replaces a 60W Candelabra bulb, 2700K so like a normal incandescent as far as look.
Was $15 for it though.







http://toolshomebestus.com/candelab...rm-light-long-life-40000-hrs-or-36-5-yrs-ene/


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## beachguy005 (Nov 11, 2014)

While I generally applaud folks conserving energy, you have to take a serious look at cost-savings. While 8, 40 watt lamps in a dining room chandelier may seem like a lot, if it's never on, you're not using any energy.  If it's rarely on but dimmed down 50%, it still doesn't use much energy.  But calculate the cost of LED replacement vs the true cost of using the incandescent and you may find it's a 10 or 15 year payback to convert.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 12, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> While I generally applaud folks conserving energy, you have to take a serious look at cost-savings. While 8, 40 watt lamps in a dining room chandelier may seem like a lot, if it's never on, you're not using any energy.  If it's rarely on but dimmed down 50%, it still doesn't use much energy.  But calculate the cost of LED replacement vs the true cost of using the incandescent and you may find it's a 10 or 15 year payback to convert.



True, although in our case we use this light for several hours a day.
Although we have in fact replaced EVERY single bulb/fixture in and outside the house even ones we rarely ever use, in our case mostly because we are selling our house soon and want to be able to say the entire house is 100% LED with 20++ year bulbs as a selling point.
I think we have spent around $350 to replace every bulb in the house including taking down old ugly fixtures and replacing with nice LED CAN lights that are 100X better looking and functioning so in most cases not just the economical factor but also way better appearance, plus the selling point of having 100% LED was well worth the $350.
We have had most of these in place for about 3 years now and even if we only save on average $3 a month that would still be $108 taken off the $350 already PLUS never having to change a bulb would also start to add up.

One other advantage for us at least is that we live in a Townhome that is nestled into and surrounded by large trees, even though we are in an end unit so only ONE wall is joining we still have very little natural light coming in during the DAY, especially upstairs.  So we keep the lights on pretty much 100% of the time in a couple parts of the house and just adjust the dimmer instead of flipping the on/off switch, it is also very nice at night to have most of the house very dimly lit so we can walk down to the Kitchen in a nice warm glow that is just enough to see everything, plus taking the dog out to pee at 12 Midnight every night everything is lit plus the outdoor front porch light is a dawn to dusk automatic LED and we have Solar powered dawn to dusk lights lighting the whole pathway.

I just did a quick calculation of just our porch light which is easy to calculate because it burns on average 10 hours a night 12 months out of the year and at full brightness not dimmed.
It used to be a 60W incandescent, it is now a 60+W LED, actually seems quite a bit brighter than the old porch light.

60W/1000KW=0.06 KWH used per hour X 0.11 cents per KWh x 300 hours per month is about $1.98 per month to burn that one old 60W incandescent.

now its 10W/1000KW = 0.01KWh used per hour X 0.11 cents pr KWh x 300 hours is 0.33 cents per month for the new LED porch light that is brighter.

Cost savings of just that ONE light is $1.65 month or $20 a year. The whole fixture was $29 at Costco so will completely pay for itself in 18 months PLUS will burn for at least the next 20 years, on average I think I replaced that 60W bulb about every 2 years or so probably save the cost of at least 8 bulbs to boot.
I believe we have 37 lights in the house, a few rarely burn, some 1-5 hours a day and at least 5 burn pretty much 24/7 though dimmed most of that time.
Then of course in the summer the ZERO heat output that needs to be taken out with the AC, wouldn't even know how to guess that in AC savings.

If I had to guess I would have to say that we probably average about a $10 per month savings total from the LED or $120 a year.
We have already saved as much as we spent on them if that guess is even close.


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## slownsteady (Nov 12, 2014)

2006 to 2014 and we are still trying to talk about bulbs in terms of wattage. Why aren't we using lumens to express light output?


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 13, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> 2006 to 2014 and we are still trying to talk about bulbs in terms of wattage. Why aren't we using lumens to express light output?



Same reason we haven't converted to metric I think.


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## beachguy005 (Nov 13, 2014)

When you calculate your savings you need to understand that the 20+ years life that the manufacturers note is based on 3 hours per day...not 10. So cut your life expectancy by 70%.  While it's brighter now, you do get lumen fade with both CFLs and LEDs. Also you need to add in your cost of labor to install the new fixture. Even if it's your own labor.
I'm not arguing that it's not a good idea to change, in that particular case it's a no brainer.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 13, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> When you calculate your savings you need to understand that the 20+ years life that the manufacturers note is based on 3 hours per day...not 10. So cut your life expectancy by 70%.  While it's brighter now, you do get lumen fade with both CFLs and LEDs. Also you need to add in your cost of labor to install the new fixture. Even if it's your own labor.
> I'm not arguing that it's not a good idea to change, in that particular case it's a no brainer.



Well in this particular porch light the claim is at least 60,000 hours with at least 70% of lumens maintained up to that point.
That works out to over 16 years at an average of 10 hours per day and that is just the maintaining of 70% of its brightness which starts at 880 Lumens or about 70W after 16 years it is still 620 Lumens at 70% which is about the same as a 50-55W bulb after 16 years.

Really all of this will completely moot point in just a couple more years because you wont even be able to buy incandescent bulbs for much longer.
Most all already banned like 75-100-60-40W are not even made anymore.

which is a good thing because then LED will get even cheaper and they really are a WAY better light source.
They will most likely get even better, last longer and cheaper.

Hell in 20 years or so a new home will come with what amounts to permanent lighting.


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## Sparky617 (Nov 14, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> Also you need to add in your cost of labor to install the new fixture. Even if it's your own labor.
> I'm not arguing that it's not a good idea to change, in that particular case it's a no brainer.




Labor to install a new fixture?  Most are just swapping out a bulb that would have needed swapping out anyway.  With LEDs hard to reach bulbs are definitely no brainers to swap out once and you'll probably never touch that bulb again during your ownership of the house.  I think of these homes with two story foyers and can lights in the ceiling.  Most people don't have a 12-16 foot high step ladder.

We had fixtures in our church fellowship hall/contemporary worship space that required a lift to swap the bulbs.  We'd swap all of them out when we changed any one of them because the lift rental was more expensive than the bulbs.  We have since gone to more efficient longer lasting lights in that space.

Wattage is a term that is easier to understand. At some point lumens will become more recognized.  We still call regular gas unleaded even though it hasn't had lead in over 35 years.


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## beachguy005 (Nov 14, 2014)

Sparky617 said:


> Labor to install a new fixture?




I was referring to the new porch fixture that nunyabiz1 purchased at Costco, and the "old ugly fixtures and replacing with nice LED CAN lights". they changed.


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## nealtw (Nov 14, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> I was referring to the new porch fixture that nunyabiz1 purchased at Costco, and the "old ugly fixtures and replacing with nice LED CAN lights". they changed.



I think those are normal upgrades for style and I wouldn't include that in savings or expence of the new bulbs.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 14, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> I was referring to the new porch fixture that nunyabiz1 purchased at Costco, and the "old ugly fixtures and replacing with nice LED CAN lights". they changed.



Yep, each one Can Lights and Porch lights took about 15 minutes each to install, so not bad.
The can lights fit right into the existing Jbox that was there from the old crappy fixtures, so its just take old one down and put new one up type thing.


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## slownsteady (Nov 14, 2014)

Why not just get an LED screw-in light bulb?


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## mehavenomemory (Nov 15, 2014)

Good Morning all, new here, and so far very impressed, lots of great info here.. I was putting all CFL's in all my fixtures, but have been learing how much cheaper the LED's are. So I am now switching them all to LED's, Pretty expensive, but I belive that is the way to go..


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## slownsteady (Nov 15, 2014)

Welcome MHNM. Don't forget to chip in when you have the answer!


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 15, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> Why not just get an LED screw-in light bulb?



If you are referring to me then the reason I changed fixtures is because the old ones were 28 years old and ugly as hell, those old brass colored rings with a ugly funky looking globe hanging down about 8-9" with a bare bulb in it.
Vs now very nice looking inset can light just a white ring that blends into the ceiling with a white 6" flat LED, when it is turned on you can barely even see the fixture itself its just nice bright light coming out of the ceiling.
Sooooo much better looking, brighter, zero heat output, and uses 575% less electricity, 13W at full brightness Vs 75W. 

The porch light was the same, not quite as ugly but old, brass, starting to rust and wasn't working properly anymore.
The new one doesn't even have a bulb in it, it has a series of the small strip like LED diodes up inside it.  Looks way better, brand new, works great and again uses WAY less electricity and for as long as my wife and I are going to be here certainly will not have to worry about changing anymore bulbs anywhere again.


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## slownsteady (Nov 16, 2014)

Absolutely. If you're changing the fixture for appearances or safety, then I'm totally in. As I was reading this thread casually, i got the impression that it was about switching one can for another.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 16, 2014)

That is what was so nice about the LED "can" lights is the fact that they really aren't actually can lights, so no need to bore a big hole in the ceiling, take out the old Jbox, get up into the attic and insulate around the tops with an airtight cap etc. Traditional Can Lights are a nightmare in the Attic, put out a tremendous amount of heat and leak air like a chimney.

The LED can lights simply install right inside of the old Jbox, it is basically just a LED bulb with a ring around it, zero heat build up, no or very little air leakage.
Ours 3 years ago were about $30 each and that was a steal compared to if I replaced those fixtures with actual can lights it would have been way more expensive with 10X the work to install plus create huge amounts of heat.
Today you can get decent LED can lights for under $15, a person would literally be a fool to not use the LED version today if they want the look of can lights.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2014)

Changing any and all bulbs to LEDs including exterior spots.  Purchase when on sale especially at Costco where they have 1/2 price sales often.  Have several CFLs that I will gladly give away.  Pure Junk


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## jsteam (Nov 16, 2014)

Due to fact that the old type light bulbs were mandated to stop production as if January 2014 yes I will be using them until the supply runs out of the  old type, although I have noticed at the Nursing home that I am a maintenance man at uses nothing but the energy savers and they don't last much longer than the old type, so much for the so called 5 year lifespan of them!


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## Speedbump (Nov 17, 2014)

Does anyone know how much if any money is saved with an LED dimmed to 50% or so?  I only have one fixture that is dimmable and that's a ceiling fan with a light kit which has two 40 watt equivalent  LED's in it.  We keep it dimmed most of the time and it's on 24/7.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 17, 2014)

Speedbump said:


> Does anyone know how much if any money is saved with an LED dimmed to 50% or so?  I only have one fixture that is dimmable and that's a ceiling fan with a light kit which has two 40 watt equivalent  LED's in it.  We keep it dimmed most of the time and it's on 24/7.



Dimmers work FAR better with LEDs than they do with Incandescents.

If you Dim your LED by 50%, I will use my particular can light LEDS as a reference which is the equivalent of a 75W Incandescent which uses at full brightness 13W of electricity.
That LED dimmed to 50% would be using approx 5W, it is roughly 10% MORE than what the percentage of dimming is so the LED is even more efficient dimmed, whereas the Incandescent get LESS efficient when dimmed. 
However on an incandescent that is dimmed 50% you are still using approx 51W of electricity so only about a 30% savings in wattage but a 50% dimming in output.
Dim that same LED to just 20% output and you are using about 2W of electricity whereas the Incandescent at 20% is still using 34W of electricity.



Just guessing, but mostly likely your 40W equivalent LED is probably using 6W at full brightness, thus approx 3W EACH at 50% thus you are most likely using somewhere around 6W total at 50%
As a comparison your average small incandescent night light uses 7W

Average cost savings for you dimming your 2 LEDs from 12W down to 6W is this if you pay roughly .10cents per KWh.
at 12W that would be about $10.51 per YEAR burning 24/7/365
at 6W it would be about $5.26 per year so about .44cents per month savings.
BUT Vs an Incandescent dimmed to 50% with two bulbs which would still be using 102W would cost about $89.35 per year vs $5.26 or a savings of about $84 per year $7 per month for just that one fixture LED vs Incandescent.
PLUS the heat savings which translates to AC use savings to boot.



http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=uTOfgIi-fQE9hCgAo9BhQg


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## Speedbump (Nov 17, 2014)

Thanks nyb1.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know.  I feel even better about swapping my bulbs now.


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## nunyabiz1 (Nov 17, 2014)

Welcome, although I just noticed I made a rather large mistake in the difference between the two 40W incandescent Vs two 40W LED I actually used the 51W times 2 from the 75W I was talking about.

Actual difference is closer to $49.00 (2 40W Incan) Vs $5 (2 40W LED) not $89.

The two 40W (80W total) dimmed down 50% would be about 56W you would be using.
Still a considerable savings with LED.


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## 8307c4 (Nov 19, 2014)

Mhhhhmmm, yeah...

The problem is that I pay 11 cents a kilowatt hour, so it really doesn't matter on a small scale whether a light bulb uses 5 or 10 watts an hour, if I leave it on 24-7 that 10 watt bulb uses exactly... 240 watts a day x 365 = 87.6 kilowatt hours, or about $10 a year.

You know, I'm just not concerned in a home where 20 light bulbs operate, whether my annual electric bill for those lights comes to $50 or $100, it may sound like a big difference but on a monthly electric bill it really isn't.

I mean, at the very least I don't see it being worth my while to run all around my home playing with dimmers every day to try and save a few lousy bucks.

Even going from CFL to LED the difference for me was about $5 a month, if that.

The biggest difference was getting away from incandescents.
That made a difference of around $25 a month.
Now $300 a year for a one-time investment, that's noticeable.


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## bud16415 (Nov 19, 2014)

I also see this as a case of being an early adopter. I only bring this up because I think I might be a bit older than a few of the members here. In my life I have seen a lot of technological changes and when my dad was alive it was a subject we used to talk a lot about also. If he was alive still he would be 100 now and there are people over 100 so I like to think about what they have seen in the form of change in their lifetime. The rate of change of  technologies has been measured and it isn&#8217;t lineal it is growing exponentially and always has. I remember as a much younger guy being more like my dad and believing in being an early adopter we had the first tv in our little town and the first color tv. The prices in terms of hours worked were unbelievable. As a young guy I bought a VHS 2 head player for the small sum of 800 bucks that weighed 50 pounds. Again an unbelievable number of hours worked for being on the cutting edge.

Not only will price come down of these new light bulbs quality will improve and so will the technology. As I get older I love the new stuff and embrace it but I hold off just a little longer than I used to. 

I always wonder as I approach 60 years old should I be buying light bulbs that last 40 years or 50 years?


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## henryb (Nov 19, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> I always wonder as I approach 60 years old should I be buying light bulbs that last 40 years or 50 years?



The bulb may outlive you but you should buy it anyway.  You get the savings as long as you are alive.  Do you want to leave a slightly bigger inheritance for your descendants, or give it to the utility company?


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## slownsteady (Nov 19, 2014)

It's the old; "cutting edge or bleeding edge" argument. You want to adopt early enough to reap the benefits before the next innovation, but if you adopt too early, you are the guinea pig for the industry.

My approach has been to change over the bulbs as needed. I had been replacing with CFLs for years and now I replace with LEDs. I have no problem moving an existing CFL to a new location if the LED does a better job in a spot. Hallways, stairways and bathrooms are high priority for LED because I want the light to come to full brightness quickly, before I am finished using the location. The CFLs still are fine for situations where the bulbs will have time to warm up. Eventually all my lights will be LED...or maybe something new will come along before then.


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## bud16415 (Nov 19, 2014)

henryb said:


> The bulb may outlive you but you should buy it anyway. You get the savings as long as you are alive. Do you want to leave a slightly bigger inheritance for your descendants, or give it to the utility company?


 


Hi Henry and welcome to the forum. 

 Money has a way like water of seeking its own level. 

I was pumping gas in my full size GMC2500 truck a year or so ago and a cranky old guy came up to me and basically said I was crazy for driving that big truck and pointed out how much money I was wasting on gas and told me I need a little thing like he was driving. I thought a second and seeing a pack of cigarettes in his pocket and by the smell of his breath, I told him you got it all wrong sir I get my gas for free. He said how do you do that and I said I pay for it by not smoking. He said what. So I said how much are a pack of cigarettes these days Im guessing 75 cents to a dollar am I right? He came off the ground and said you are crazy try 5 bucks. Man I said does a pack last you a couple weeks? He said you are a joker I go thru about 2 packs a day. I came unscrewed and replied Holy smokes you spend 70 bucks a week on cigarettes and I only spend 50 on gas! I need a bigger truck. He turned around mumbling something and lit up and drove away. 

Just about everything works out like that at some point. Its good these energy saving things are coming along but they will save energy but I dont think they will save money. I heard this morning on NPR a far from right leaning news organization that one by one over the next ten years all the coal fired electric plants will be closing one by one it is starting now. To leave them open as there is nothing yet to supply the demand they will be fined to death and pass that cost on to us. It will by design limit consumption and transfer more money to the government. It always seems to come around to the more you make the more you spend. 

I guess I can put a stipulation in my will that my LED bulbs be passed down I hope they dont have to pay 50% inheritance tax on them.


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## bud16415 (Nov 19, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> It's the old; "cutting edge or bleeding edge" argument. You want to adopt early enough to reap the benefits before the next innovation, but if you adopt too early, you are the guinea pig for the industry.
> 
> My approach has been to change over the bulbs as needed. I had been replacing with CFLs for years and now I replace with LEDs. I have no problem moving an existing CFL to a new location if the LED does a better job in a spot. Hallways, stairways and bathrooms are high priority for LED because I want the light to come to full brightness quickly, before I am finished using the location. The CFLs still are fine for situations where the bulbs will have time to warm up. Eventually all my lights will be LED...or maybe something new will come along before then.


 

My sister is a little different I dont know if shes nuts or way smarter than me most of the time. She went to big lots and bought solar landscape lights on sale for a buck a piece I think she got about 20. She sticks them out in a pot during the day and brings them in at night and distributes them around her house 3 or 4 in each room and thats her light. Then she boils a gallon of water on her electric stove to make a cup of tea to drink by candle light.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> My sister is a little different I dont know if shes nuts or way smarter than me most of the time. She went to big lots and bought solar landscape lights on sale for a buck a piece I think she got about 20. She sticks them out in a pot during the day and brings them in at night and distributes them around her house 3 or 4 in each room and thats her light. Then she boils a gallon of water on her electric stove to make a cup of tea to drink by candle light.



What does she do on cloudy days?


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## slownsteady (Nov 19, 2014)

she drinks coffee.


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## slownsteady (Nov 19, 2014)

> My sister is a little different I dont know if shes nuts or way smarter than me most of the time. She went to big lots and bought solar landscape lights on sale for a buck a piece I think she got about 20. She sticks them out in a pot during the day and brings them in at night and distributes them around her house 3 or 4 in each room and thats her light.



Not so crazy really. But you have to balance that against the effort. And the solar lights are unreliable.


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## bud16415 (Nov 19, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> What does she do on cloudy days?


 

Havent you heard its always cloudy in Erie Pa. Thats where the crazy part comes in and most likely why the lights didnt sell in the first place. Most people that buy them here bring them in during the daytime and sit them under a lamp to charge up and then put them out at night to light their path.


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## frodo (Dec 15, 2014)

I hate them, they do not fit my ceiling fans.  bulbs are to big.  the globe wont go back on.

to slow to light up and are dim.


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## Chris (Dec 15, 2014)

I agree Frodo.


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## zannej (Dec 15, 2014)

I have an LED bulb in my bedside lamp. In the past the lamp got knocked over and glass bulbs broke. This thing gets knocked over all the time and the bulb is still working. It doesn't get hot like the old ones. I really like it. Only drawback is that it isn't quite as bright as the other ones.

Solar lights are garbage though. Never found any that weren't dim as hell and that lasted more than 5 min- and that is if they even worked in the first place.


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## Chris (Dec 15, 2014)

I have fluorescent bulbs in my nightstand fixtures and hate them, they take ten minutes to warm up to be able to see anything, how is that energy saving?


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## nunyabiz1 (Dec 15, 2014)

frodo said:


> I hate them, they do not fit my ceiling fans.  bulbs are to big.  the globe wont go back on.
> 
> to slow to light up and are dim.



I assume you must mean the CFL's and not LED because the LEDs are none of what you listed.
All the LEDS we have and our entire house is LED 90% of them have to be put on dimmers because they are so bright and they come on full brightness instantly.
I am even about to replace all the bulbs in my 4Runner with LEDs, Headlights, Running lights, Brake, Tail lights turning signals everything.
They are 300% brighter and are basically lifetime bulbs.


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## nunyabiz1 (Dec 15, 2014)

zannej said:


> I have an LED bulb in my bedside lamp. In the past the lamp got knocked over and glass bulbs broke. This thing gets knocked over all the time and the bulb is still working. It doesn't get hot like the old ones. I really like it. Only drawback is that it isn't quite as bright as the other ones.
> 
> Solar lights are garbage though. Never found any that weren't dim as hell and that lasted more than 5 min- and that is if they even worked in the first place.



I have 8 of these Solar LEDs on our walkway, as long as they get a good 6+ hours of direct sunlight per day they work perfect for what I need them for which is just to light up the walkway when we come in at night.
They have about a 3W light that stays on and a 40W light that comes on when you get within about 10 feet of it.
On days when it rains pretty much all day they are fairly worthless though.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I66ZVEA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## slownsteady (Dec 15, 2014)

nunyabiz1 said:


> I have 8 of these Solar LEDs on our walkway, as long as they get a good 6+ hours of direct sunlight per day they work perfect for what I need them for which is just to light up the walkway when we come in at night.
> They have about a 3W light that stays on and a 40W light that comes on when you get within about 10 feet of it.
> On days when it rains pretty much all day they are fairly worthless though.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I66ZVEA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Haven't seen those before. Clever. Do they get enough light in the winter to charge properly? That's the big problem for me - not enough sunlight.


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## frodo (Dec 15, 2014)

yes,  the "new"  light bulb.  not the led.   the garbage they are forcing on us.  HATE IT!!!
 i went to wally world and bought 200 100 wat light bulbs.  put them in the barn.


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## slownsteady (Dec 15, 2014)

I don't get it, frodo. New...as in newer than LED? If you're talking about swirly bulbs and that type, I can understand, but if you haven't looked at LEDs yet, take a look. Why would you want to pay for the wasted energy in an incandescent unless you are heating your house with them....or you need them for you Easy-Bake Oven.


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## nunyabiz1 (Dec 15, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> Haven't seen those before. Clever. Do they get enough light in the winter to charge properly? That's the big problem for me - not enough sunlight.



Really depends on the exact spot you put them.
In my case the worst time is Fall because days are starting to get shorter AND still fair amount of leaves on the trees plus a lot of rain.
In the past couple weeks there are so few leaves left and all during Winter that more sun gets to them even though the days are shorter.
In Summer even though they are in shade a lot there is still plenty of sunlight because the days are longer to charge them up enough to last until 6am.

Ideally they need about 6+ hours of direct sunlight to work perfectly.


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## Chris (Dec 15, 2014)

Costco had those solar lights, I bought a bunch of them for 15 bucks a pack.


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## nunyabiz1 (Dec 16, 2014)

Chris said:


> Costco had those solar lights, I bought a bunch of them for 15 bucks a pack.



Yep, only had them for about a month at most though, sold out fast.


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## zannej (Dec 21, 2014)

My state sucks so much that it doesn't have a Costco. We do have a Sam's Club but its not that great.

A 400 year old oak tree umbrellas my house and shades the front walkway so the solar lights never got enough light. We tried putting some out where there was direct sunlight along the driveway (the kind that have a part that embeds in the ground). My dogs dug them up and chewed them. LOL. It rains quite frequently though..

Someone mentioned those spiral light bulbs... Ugh... I couldn't fit the globe back on my ceiling fan so I had to start making a little chandelier. Unfortunately my brother was playing with my highlander sword one day and smacked the "fandelier" and broke it.

Then one day smoke started coming out of the base of the bulb and there was a horrible smell.

Can anyone recommend some good brands / types of the LED bulbs? Less than half of the lights in my house are working right now and I need to replace them. (although its entirely possible that the problem is electrical-- had some tenants that dicked around with the wiring very badly).


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## slownsteady (Dec 21, 2014)

I usually stick to the major brands of LED lights with the standard bases. i just screw them into existing fixtures. I think it's GE that now makes a more compact swirly bulb that fits nicely into tight fixtures. Also Cree makes an LED bulb that looks just like a traditional incandescent.


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## nunyabiz1 (Dec 22, 2014)

zannej said:


> Can anyone recommend some good brands / types of the LED bulbs? Less than half of the lights in my house are working right now and I need to replace them. (although its entirely possible that the problem is electrical-- had some tenants that dicked around with the wiring very badly).




http://led-light-bulbs-review.toptenreviews.com/

http://www.cnet.com/news/led-there-be-light-we-pick-the-best-bulb-upgrades-for-your-buck/

http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-led-lightbulb/


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## zannej (Dec 22, 2014)

nunyabiz1 said:


> http://led-light-bulbs-review.toptenreviews.com/
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/news/led-there-be-light-we-pick-the-best-bulb-upgrades-for-your-buck/
> 
> http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-led-lightbulb/



Thank you very much! I'll have to look in to those.


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## marcmorgan (Nov 11, 2015)

We recently bought the LED replacement bulbs for the T8 tubes bulbs. They were like $10 each, so a little pricey. But they produce great light and are supposed to last 20 years.


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## RafaelMoips (Mar 28, 2017)

I seen one on Craigslist didnt know they have treasure-talk hows that workout ?


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## zannej (Mar 30, 2017)

Speaking of LED bulbs, what would I have to look for on the box/description to indicate that the bulbs can be used in a damp environment as well as in an enclosed space?
I noticed some say not to use them in a closed in space.


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## voyager (May 18, 2019)

We no longer have any incandescent lighting being used around our property, only a few CFLs are left while we wait for them to fail.
We have LEDs  everywhere else, replacing 7watt night lights, 60,  90 and 100 watt equivalents, solar power security lighting, etc.

With the cost of LED lights coming down as they have, it doesn't make sense to put off the change over anymore.


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## WyrTwister (May 19, 2019)

Yep .

Wyr

God bless


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## bud16415 (May 19, 2019)

100% LED here now.


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## voyager (May 19, 2019)

The greatest problem with LEDs and other electronic components, as I understand it, is that China has become a major, if not the major world supplier of the rare earth minerals used in their manufacture.
They were, and are probably still trying to leverage that to their advantage by charging higher prices for their export to other countries, like the US, than what is charged for their domestic manufacturing use.
It helps raise the costs of the manufacturing of the components elsewhere.
My understanding is that was one of the reasons for the "trade war" between the US and China.

I do buy our smaller 7w equivalent bulbs for the kitchen counter lighting on Amazon and eBay direct from China.
We have about 10 of them around the counters, replacing the halogens being used to begin with.
They are cheaper online from China than other areas, and not available locally, but do have a relatively high failure rate due to poor QC.
We lose 1 or 2 a year, maybe a 10 to 15% failure rate, putting a hole in the 20 year service life claim.
Even so, buying direct from Chinese vendors is cost effective, if you don't get scammed.
Amazon and eBay do give protection from scammers.


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## bud16415 (May 19, 2019)

voyager said:


> The greatest problem with LEDs and other electronic components, as I understand it, is that China has become a major, if not the major world supplier of the rare earth minerals used in their manufacture.
> They were, and are probably still trying to leverage that to their advantage by charging higher prices for their export to other countries, like the US, than what is charged for their domestic manufacturing use.
> It helps raise the costs of the manufacturing of the components elsewhere.
> My understanding is that was one of the reasons for the "trade war" between the US and China.
> ...



I don’t know. I bought a dozen of the LED screw in bulbs a while back at a garden center I forget the exact lumens but they were to replace 75 watt lamps in terms of brightness and they draw just a fraction of that wattage. They are cool to the touch so all the less wattage was just making heat in the old bulbs. They were selling these LED lamps for a buck a piece. $12 / 12 bulbs. Somehow they are making these things in China shipping them all the way around the world and selling something 10 times as complex for a buck and making a profit. GE had a bulb factory about 30 miles from here and made bulbs from Edison till CFLs came about. They decided at that time to get out of lamps in this country.


All I know is those 12 I bought 6 of them have been going a year at least and 6 more are sitting in a tote waiting for something to need replaced.


For Christmas my nephew gave me a LED bulb that changes colors with an app on my phone. It is the coolest thing ever, but I had no idea what I needed one for. I ended up putting it in the up light above the kitchen upper cabinets near the door for the hot tub. I turn off all the lights and leave that on as a night light when we hot tub. It’s a mood lighting kind of effect. Now that I have it I taught Alexa how to change it.


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## Yod12 (May 20, 2019)

What do you mean by "new"?
I use halogen however I can get them.
Led's have catastrophic consequences to the human nervous system. This is widely known in the medical community.
Many utility companies that have replaced the 'inefficient' lighting have realized that they made a bit mistake. But this is a capitalist country - that's all some folks can see.



frodo said:


> yes,  the "new"  light bulb.  not the led.   the garbage they are forcing on us.  HATE IT!!!
> i went to wally world and bought 200 100 wat light bulbs.  put them in the barn.


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## WyrTwister (May 20, 2019)

The local Dollar Tree store sells screw in LED's for $ 1 each , any day of the year .  When I get low , I usually buy 5 - 10 of them .

Wyr
God bless


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## Eddie_T (May 20, 2019)

I use them except where they don't fit or don't look good (candelabra). There is no noticeable difference in my electric bill as I have electric heat. 

My son has an overhead light in his bath where he uses an efficient incandescent and one exploded like a gunshot. No one was in the room but it scattered bits of glass and powder all over the room.


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## WyrTwister (May 20, 2019)

Some incandescents are slightly more efficient ( I think ) than others .  But I do not consider any incandescent lamp efficient .

     However , a heat lamp in a bathroom is not suppose to be energy efficient .

Wyr
God bless


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## Michael Armstrong (May 20, 2019)

100% LED now, with 2 known exceptions: The garage door openers won't work with LED bulbs, so they're the last CFLs in the house, and good riddance. But I see that if you Google "Do LED bulbs affect human health?" you get over 51M hits (today), so it may be worthwhile to look into that aspect of them.


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## Eddie_T (May 20, 2019)

I didn't say heat lamp, there are some incandescents that are sold as being more energy efficient to permit their sale. I don't own any but some are a bulb (halogen?) within a bulb and that's what exploded in my son's bathroom.


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## Michael Armstrong (May 20, 2019)

I'm surprised there's been so little discussion of replacing fluorescent T8s with LED equivalents. Savings are significant, but don't get the kind that brag you don't have to remove the ballasts -- those actually require the ballast, so when it fails, you're in for big bucks, and you have to feed them (they love electricity) while they're working. I've replaced over 50 of these in my  houses and others', and aside from the hassle of taking the fixture apart, it was a real joy to toss the ugly old ballasts into my hazmat bin. I've been using Hyperikon bulbs (from Amazon); they come in different colors, they've been reliable, customer service from the manufacturer (when 2 did fail) was super, and they're only $10-11 when you buy in 24-packs. Costco also now sells a nifty shop-light kit for not much money with the fixture, line cord, and hanging hooks, and they're chainable. A neighbor here replaced all the fluorescents in his shop with super-white LEDs and the difference is stunning.


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## slownsteady (May 20, 2019)

Yod12 said:


> What do you mean by "new"?
> I use halogen however I can get them.
> Led's have catastrophic consequences to the human nervous system. This is widely known in the medical community.
> Many utility companies that have replaced the 'inefficient' lighting have realized that they made a bit mistake. But this is a capitalist country - that's all some folks can see.


If that is true, I think we would all like to know. Where does this info come from? Can you direct us to it...or bring it here?


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## Eddie_T (May 20, 2019)

I have read that a study has discovered that exposure to LED lights can cause irreparable harm to the retina of the human eye but haven't seen anything about damage to the nervous system. I don't rush into anything new but am gradually running out of incandescent bulbs.


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## slownsteady (May 23, 2019)

Sorry if I'm being cynical, but information can be true or false. On one hand, look at all the rumors surrounding the measles vaccine and the trouble that's causing. On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence that industry doesn't care about the health of consumers.


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## slownsteady (May 23, 2019)

https://www.engineering.com/Electro...14607/Are-LED-Lights-Bad-for-Your-Health.aspx

https://theconversation.com/america...ty-problems-from-white-led-streetlights-61191

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/can-small-led-lights-impact-health-negatively.html


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## MrMiz (May 24, 2019)

slownsteady said:


> Sorry if I'm being cynical, but information can be true or false. On one hand, look at all the rumors surrounding the measles vaccine and the trouble that's causing. On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence that industry doesn't care about the health of consumers.


I've been using them for about 4 years now both personally and in my rentals. One thing I've noticed is all the brands I've tried have a pretty high failure rate in the 1st year. You really have to pay attention to their warranty return policy as well as it can be more expensive to mail some of them in for exchange than just buying new. My favorite are the ones that let you return them directly to the store you purchased them from (with proof of purchase or registration usually). I had one tenant that purchase 3 boxes of 4 LED light bulbs and requested to have them put in some of the harder to reach places.  Of the 12 bulbs 3 where bad right out of the box. Which for some reason blew my tenants mind. He just kept saying " these are suppose to last 7 years how can the be bad already". I told him my experience with them and it shocked him even more. Something about the way LED's work gives some people seizures. I've never experience this just been told when tenant wants them replaced. 

All that is to say I think the quality control on LED lights and bulb's is pretty low as well as their complexity leads to failure as well. 

I'm not really trying to give an opinion one way or the other here just basically stating my experience. I'm going to keep putting them in when I change things out if for no other reason than it seems to make people happy when they know you have LED bulbs.


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## Eddie_T (May 24, 2019)

I decided to see how much I was saving with LEDs and twisties. I see why it was negligible on my electric bill. My before was four 70w incandescents for around eight hours per day. If I just left them off I would save ≈24¢ per day. Bottom line I can't get excited over such small savings.


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## zannej (May 25, 2019)

I prefer the LEDs because they give brighter white color, they don't get hot to the touch, & they don't break as easily as other bulbs. I replaced fluorescent lights in my workshop with LED work lights & they are MUCH brighter. A single lamp lights up an area that took 4 fluorescent lights to light up.


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## slownsteady (May 27, 2019)

Eddie_T said:


> I decided to see how much I was saving with LEDs and twisties. I see why it was negligible on my electric bill. My before was four 70w incandescents for around eight hours per day. If I just left them off I would save ≈24¢ per day. Bottom line I can't get excited over such small savings.


I believe that we all have to contribute to the good of the planet. If all the $.24's in the world were added up, we might save one glacier. And that one glacier might  save Miami.


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## slownsteady (May 27, 2019)

...and Bangladesh.


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## bud16415 (May 28, 2019)

slownsteady said:


> I believe that we all have to contribute to the good of the planet. If all the $.24's in the world were added up, we might save one glacier. And that one glacier might  save Miami.



I agree. Every little bit helps. I like to think of it as if everyone’s $.24 were added together maybe we could take that money and cure cancer or rebuild a couple bridges that are wearing out. As to halting glaciers or saving a coastal city I don’t think wasted energy savings is there to reverse the course of nature.


Where I live not that long ago in terms of the earth 14,000 years ago there was a couple miles of ice over my head with so much weight it pressed and gouged out the great lakes forming the greatest body of fresh water on the planet. It all went away because of climate change and allowed us to have the lakes and Canada.


Yesterday for the holiday we spent the day with my sister and husband at their Lake Erie cottage and all they talked about was how this spring the water level as up a foot or so and took away a lot of beach area and caused some winter bank erosion. Of course the cause was suspect to climate change even though in my short lifespan of 63 years I have seen it that high a few times. I mentioned how without climate change we wouldn’t have the lakes to enjoy. That didn’t go anywhere, so I asked them why they each drove an 8 cylinder car to get there that day. That didn’t work, so I asked them why they had an electric heater running at one side of the cottage and AC running on the other side of the room. Seems they had a logical answer for that as he is always warm and she is always cold now that they are getting old.


There are lots of good reasons for having better light bulbs but saving energy most likely isn’t too high up even though it is how they are sold. For every watt we save we seem to need 10 more watts for something new we didn’t know we needed. Just look at the average house being built now compared to 1950. In 1950 homes had a 60 amp load panel with fuses and homeowners couldn’t think of exceeding that. That quickly became 100a and now 200a is normal or more.


China and India are bringing on line a new coal power plant each something like every week as energy consumption equates to a better life and a longer life. That’s been proved in this country and we can’t blame the rest of the world for wanting that.


I really think 24 cents a day is just 24 cents a day in your pocket to do with what you want.


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## tmiskimen (May 28, 2019)

Great comments BUD16415, but I agree it's really tough to sell "common sense" these days.


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## slownsteady (May 28, 2019)

Well argued Bud. But you have to try. It's the same with water bottles. Why should I have to carry a refillable one when I can easily ditch the plastic one when I'm done? Why should farmers struggle to keep growing crops in the midst of all the environmental "mishaps" that ruin their fields? (You've probably seen those bumper stickers that say "No Farms, No Food". I suspect you might even have one on your truck ) You might be able to stop immigrants from escaping the equatorial regions at the wall, but it won't stop fire ants or invasive plants from moving north.

I learned about the J-curve in middle school. You grow a species of bacteria in a petrie dish uninterrupted and they will thrive until the the dish can no longer support life.

You have to try.


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## bud16415 (May 28, 2019)

slownsteady said:


> Well argued Bud.




You are correct. Reminds me of around 1990 McDonalds caved into pressure to replace the foam food containers with cardboard. The foam was a cleaner product in terms of putting food in. It is made from a part of the oil refining process that is otherwise wasted it is a tiny fraction of the cost for them to buy. It kept food warmer. The energy to make the foam box was just a fraction of cutting down trees and grinding them to pulp then treating the pulp with all kinds of nasty things to break it down to raw fiber. Bleach it clean it squeeze it roll it print it and lastly assemble it. Then having to get rid of all the trimmings and other waste products. The lifespan of the box foam or cardboard is about ten minutes and then it gets discarded. The foam actually would break down in land fills faster and is good for soils. If the two products are burned the foam box gives off way less of that nasty CO2.


But it is perception and people perceive paper good plastic bad. I haven’t bought a garbage bag in 10 years. Wal-Mart gives me bags every time I go there.


As to drinking bottles of water that cost more per gallon than gasoline. People pay 9 bucks for a plastic refillable water bottle and feel good about it. If you get a drink that comes in a bottle and rinse it out and fill it with water you get told the plastic is leaching into your water and killing you. It is insane. I bought 3 one gallon OJ that had a nice pitcher shape and when the OJ was gone I have been mixing city water with ice tea or lemon aid powder in then for a year or more. Leftovers go in cottage cheese containers who need Tupperware.


Species have been moving around the world from the beginning of time. The wall is just to keep people out the entry points are to let them in. I have traveled all over the world and I have yet to find a country that just let me walk in on my own.


The J curve is correct and technology in things like farming is what allows us to go past it’s logical end point. We are doing just fine in this country as long as the government allows free enterprise to do its thing. The two farmers I know that got out of dairy 5 years ago because the deck is stacked against dairy farmer now just planted 1000 acres of corn and beans over the last week. The corn (great food) all goes to making alcohol to go in gasoline and the beans get squeezed for oil to make bio diesel. More money in fuel than food these days plus that drives food prices up.


Looking for a new bumper sticker No Farmers No Fuel.


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## Eddie_T (May 29, 2019)

I don't know about bio-diesel but ethanol gas has cost me plenty. In taxes for the subsidy, in lowered gas mileage for my vehicles and ruined various chain saw, weed eater, lawn mower and generator fuel system components. I'm just thankful that we don't get as much government as we pay for.


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## bud16415 (May 29, 2019)

Eddie_T said:


> I don't know about bio-diesel but ethanol gas has cost me plenty. In taxes for the subsidy, in lowered gas mileage for my vehicles and ruined various chain saw, weed eater, lawn mower and generator fuel system components. I'm just thankful that we don't get as much government as we pay for.



Will Rodgers couldn't have said it any better.


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## bud16415 (May 29, 2019)

Eddie_T said:


> I don't know about bio-diesel .




The interesting thing about pressing the soybeans and extracting the oil is the company here that does it also has a huge dairy farm. What is left over ends up as a supplement to their cattle feed and allows them an advantage. Nothing wasted.


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## Brian Famous (May 29, 2019)

We use dimmable LEDs in almost every fixture.  Most expensive, and we'll probably never realize a cost savings, but then again, we're not tracking the costs either.


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## Yod12 (May 31, 2019)

Interesting that when I saw some more comments about this, I read another article by the French Agency for Food, Environmental and Occupational Health and Safety (ANSES) which goes into great detail about the detrimental effects of LEDs. And apparently, "compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs) are far worse".
Also, "Children are at high risk for damage from LEDs due to the transparency of the lenses in their eyes".


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## Diehard (May 31, 2019)

If you must have LED lights, look for ones with high CRI numbers. In the 90's is best to reduce the potential damage to the eyes.


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## thebuilder20 (Jul 1, 2019)

Brian Famous said:


> We use dimmable LEDs in almost every fixture.  Most expensive, and we'll probably never realize a cost savings, but then again, we're not tracking the costs either.



This is also the case for us.


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## billshack (Nov 29, 2019)

I use them all over the place , for example a regular  lite bulb use 60 watts per hour 
and a energy saving one use 8  watts .


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## zannej (Nov 29, 2019)

I like the LEDs because they are brighter, get whiter colored light, and don't get as hot as traditional bulbs. We are still replacing regular bulbs with LEDs slowly.


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## slownsteady (Nov 29, 2019)

Funny how when this thread was started in 2006, LED screw-in bulbs were exotic newcomers. Now we have LED light panels that are virtually flush with the ceiling and easy to install. No more bulbs are needed. let's see just how long these all-in-one fixtures last....maybe (hopefully) longer than this thread


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## zannej (Dec 2, 2019)

I just got LED headlights for my truck the other day. They are so much better than the old yellowish bulbs.
It is interesting how they have advanced over the years. I remember working with LEDs in electronics class in the early 1990s & they were vastly different then.


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## MrMiz (Dec 3, 2019)

I have a lot of LED bulbs all over the place. My house, my rentals, my shop etc. and I can tell you this. The failure rate definitely feels the exact same. I've had LED's go out in the first week of having them, and the ones I have right now that are "done" are about 2 years old. I've tried multiple brands and multiple kinds. I'm starting to shy away from the ones with built in LED's in favor of the ones with replaceable blub types. Not only is it frustrating to have to replace a whole fixture with built in LED's, but you can't always get a matching fixture. The one I have now ( I call them "boob" lights because my uncultured mind can't see anything else sorry if it's offensive) I bought originally from Lowes, and for what ever reason Lowes switch brands over the last 2 years so now I can't get a match. The only thing that's close is about twice the size and looks silly in the hallway, so I'll probably just get one the same size and let my relatives notice it when they come over.
So I guess all that's to say that the marketing hype on LED's has left me a little bitter in actual practice. I feel like everybody says "Oh they last forever and they are such a huge advancement in technology"  but they cost more, fail the same, and probably save you a little here and there on power bills. So I guess that's a win? I just wish everybody would stop treating them like they are the answer to the worlds problems. I've put just as many LED lights with their ballasts in the trash as light bulbs.


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## bud16415 (Dec 3, 2019)

MrMiz said:


> I have a lot of LED bulbs all over the place. My house, my rentals, my shop etc. and I can tell you this. The failure rate definitely feels the exact same. I've had LED's go out in the first week of having them, and the ones I have right now that are "done" are about 2 years old. I've tried multiple brands and multiple kinds. I'm starting to shy away from the ones with built in LED's in favor of the ones with replaceable blub types. Not only is it frustrating to have to replace a whole fixture with built in LED's, but you can't always get a matching fixture. The one I have now ( I call them "boob" lights because my uncultured mind can't see anything else sorry if it's offensive) I bought originally from Lowes, and for what ever reason Lowes switch brands over the last 2 years so now I can't get a match. The only thing that's close is about twice the size and looks silly in the hallway, so I'll probably just get one the same size and let my relatives notice it when they come over.
> So I guess all that's to say that the marketing hype on LED's has left me a little bitter in actual practice. I feel like everybody says "Oh they last forever and they are such a huge advancement in technology"  but they cost more, fail the same, and probably save you a little here and there on power bills. So I guess that's a win? I just wish everybody would stop treating them like they are the answer to the worlds problems. I've put just as many LED lights with their ballasts in the trash as light bulbs.




I agree to some extent. I stayed away from them at first as they were way to expensive, but as the price came down I’m now buying something that looks and feels like an incandescent bulb and screws in the same fixture and the last ones I bought were the 60-100 equivalent LEDs and they were a buck each. I don’t know how they can make them and ship them from China here for that but they are.


In general I like they hardly make any heat and only use about 1/10 the power and IMO most of mine have been lasting longer than the old bulbs.


So all things considered other than making them in the states like incandescent bulbs were, I think they are a good thing.


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## slownsteady (Dec 4, 2019)

putting an LED bulb inside a glass globe, like a boob light or a tiffany style, shortens the life of the bulb. They generate some heat and the ballast isn't tough enough for the heat build-up in an enclosed fixture. Besides, if you read the fine print, you can only use it a few hours a day in order for it to live up to it's claimed life. Still, I have LEDs that are years old and still working.


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## Yod12 (Dec 5, 2019)

What a tragedy! As noted above, LEDs are extremely detrimental to health and well being.


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## slownsteady (Dec 11, 2019)

Yod12 said:


> What a tragedy! As noted above, LEDs are extremely detrimental to health and well being.


...and so are cars.


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## bud16415 (Dec 12, 2019)

slownsteady said:


> ...and so are cars.



It depends on what you conceder “detrimental to health and well being”. On one hand you produce more CO2 with your lungs walking a mile with 3 of your friends and the food it takes to power your legs and the energy to produce the food than the gasoline and the car would produce doing the same task. But then on the other hand the walking would improve your health and well being.


I’m sure similar analogies could be drawn with using other renewable methods of producing light or simply sitting in the dark 16 hours a day waiting for the sun to come back up.


Whale oil made great lamp oil and of course whale oil was a renewable energy source.


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## Eddie_T (Dec 13, 2019)

CO₂ is our friend, makes O₂ producing vegetation grow.


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## Jeff Handy (Dec 13, 2019)

I have never heard anything about LED lights being bad for health, sounds about as crackpot science as the anti-vaccine nonsense. 

I would never buy a light fixture with the LED bulb built in, non-replaceable. 
Except a shop light or utility light, when they die just toss and replace. 

As far as LED bulbs being whiter or brighter, that is complete bs. 

You can get LED bulbs in warm white, you have to look at the color temperature information. 
Around 2700 to 3000 kelvin. 
If you like that bright white bluish type light, like 5000 kelvin, you can get those too, but warm white LEDs have been around for a long time. 

And you can get them in brighter or dimmer types. 
They are not “brighter” by nature, you need to look at the brightness listing in lumens, or else in equivalent wattage to incandescent


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## Jeff Handy (Dec 14, 2019)

If you are talking about the high-powered bluish LEDs causing health problems, I can see how that could be.
They are way too intense, and that color is not natural.
Some car headlights, street lights, security lights, are often too blueish white and too high intensity.
Even the bright white bulbs sold for home use are horrible to look at, I think.
And even regular fluorescent tube shop lights give me a head ache, they are not an eye friendly spectrum of light.
But you can’t say it’s LEDs causing the problem.
It is this overly intense bright blue spectrum of light that is bad for eyes.
LEDs in a more natural color temperature of approx 2700 to 3000 kelvin give eye-friendly and brain-friendly light more like regular old incandescent light bulbs.


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## Gary (Dec 14, 2019)

We've been upgrading to LED as the old incandescents die. We put warm white bulbs in the outside garage fixtures and I can't tell the difference from the old incandescent bulbs, with the one exception that they aren't burning out like the old bulbs.


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## bud16415 (Dec 14, 2019)

Jeff Handy said:


> I have never heard anything about LED lights being bad for health, sounds about as crackpot science as the anti-vaccine nonsense.
> 
> I would never buy a light fixture with the LED bulb built in, non-replaceable.
> Except a shop light or utility light, when they die just toss and replace.
> ...




Google the Helmholtz – Kohlrausch Effect.  


It will give you some information as to how our eyes perceive brightness.


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## Jeff Handy (Dec 14, 2019)

If you replace your old incandescent bulbs with warm white LEDs, your brain and eyes will be happy with them. 

Since the effect you mentioned occurs at the wavelengths above or below the natural warm amber wavelengths our brains have evolved to be comfortable with, you will be fine if you stay with warm white color temperature. 

Even daylight does not have the unnatural bluish or reddish tint that would be a factor in this perceived intensity effect.


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## Rusty (Dec 29, 2019)

Yod12 said:


> What a tragedy! As noted above, LEDs are extremely detrimental to health and well being.


They also produce very poor light for close-up work.


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## Burgy (Jan 23, 2020)

As mentioned earlier, LED light bulbs or LED lighting in general is manufactured in varying light colors (warm to cool; natural light or day white).  If you like the day white (nice bright white) you would want a higher kelvin rating (kelvin rating is on the box and/or bulb) such as 5000K.  As a comparison, a 2700K bulb would produce a lower light level, warm effect and the bulb would have a slightly white or even yellow/orange glow to it.  You might see something like this in a nice restaurant at your table or possibly in the ceiling.  Its all about ambience.  If you want a room or exterior lighting to produce bright light so that it is easier to see things, 5000K or higher is the way to go.  My garage and work area uses 5000K.  My exterior flood lights are 5000K.  My bathroom lights are 4000K and some 3000K.  A good LED product is one with a heat sink built into the case or shell.  That helps to keep the heat away from the LED (light emitting diode that produces the light).  If you ever touched a LED bulb on the glass or plastic surface, it might be slightly warm to the touch or maybe not warm at all.  However, if you unscrew the light bulb and touch the threaded base, it is very hot.  The heat sink within that bulb is dissipating the heat so that the LED will last longer.  Make sure your LED product has a heat sink.  Some LED products require an external driver, such as an LED tube that would replace a fluorescent lamp; 4' for example.  A good LED tube is one that utilizes an external driver (NOT an internal driver which will get hot over time and reduce the life of the LED diode).  An external driver acts just like a ballast but rather is a low voltage device with constant current.  If you have LED tubes connected to a typical ballast used for fluorescent lamps, you are asking for trouble at some point in time.  Also, someone mentioned an LED with a 30 year warranty.  I am guessing that it isn't a 3o year warranty but rather a 30 year rated life.  For example, most LED bulbs have a 25,000 rated hour life.  Well, if you use that light bulb for 3 hours a day, 7 days a week as an example, the life expectancy would be 23 years.  The warranty on that bulb is most likely 1 to 3 years and maybe 5 depending on the company.  An LED tube that was manufactured in China (98% are made in China), usually is rated for 50,000 hours.  Most LED and especially LED bulbs are made either in China or other countries.  The diodes (LED's) used in these products vary in quality and are all over the map.  In my experiences with LED, some last a short time and some last longer.  Depending on the brand and also how they are connected to electricity makes a big difference.  Those that continue to work vary in color even though they are the same model/brand.  Any more I have had the best luck with the Titan LED brand.  Titan makes their LED lights (excluding bulbs) out of Arizona.  They are completely USA made.  You might pay a little more upfront but they do last longer so really you are saving money in the long run.  For example, a 4' LED tube comes with a 12 year warranty and is rated for 155,000 hours.  Shatterproof, water resistant and can easily be installed in an existing fluorescent tube fixture.  I replaced all my 4' fluorescent lamps with these in my garage, work room, laundry room and some closets.  I was able to de-lamp which means I removed 4 fluorescent tubes in each fixture and installed only two of the LED tubes.  More lighting, no more ballast noise and lower electric bill.  The 12 year warranty sold me over.  The bulbs that Titan carries are made by one company and these come with a 5 year warranty.  Not a bad deal.  The other thing to look at when switching to LED is the Lumen value.  So the kelvin is the color of the light.  The higher the kelvin rating the cooler or whiter the light color.  The lumen value on the other hand  is the brightness factor.  The higher the Lumen value the brighter the light.  For example, I have an exterior security light on my shed.  The Kelvin is 5000K (nice white color to make visibility easier when looking out the window).  The lumen is 700 which is nice but I am looking to get something brighter which will require a higher lumen value.  My LED tubes in the basement are 3200 Lumen (very bright) which is why I only needed two in each fixture plus my fixtures have the acrylic lens which the lights shines through.  Simple remove the ballast and install the new LED driver.  Then just plug in the LED tube with the 3' wire whip that comes with the tube.  One end plugs into the driver and the other end plugs into the LED tube.  

If you have any questions on LED lighting or converting you can contact me.


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## Burgy (Dec 17, 2021)

LED is the way to go.  Different colors, different lumen ratings, different rated hours.


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## Rusty (Dec 17, 2021)

Burgy said:


> LED is the way to go.  Different colors, different lumen ratings, different rated hours.


Very hard on the eyes for close up work.


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## Guzzle (Dec 18, 2021)

Rusty said:


> Very hard on the eyes for close up work.


Never heard that before, but the LED spectrum is not the same as sunlight or incandescent bulbs. 
Also, some few males are color blind, maybe that light comes across as harsh to them?


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## billshack (Dec 18, 2021)

Burgy said:


> LED is the way to go.  Different colors, different lumen ratings, different rated hours.


Try daylight bulbs they are just like daylight .


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## BvilleBound (Dec 18, 2021)

First, LED bulbs are the best way to go because they will save you a bunch of money -- both in the significant reduction in electricity usage (15 LED watts = 100 incandescent watts), plus a much longer life (~10,000 hours LED vs 1.000 for incandescent).  The health concern about LED lights is related to intensity and blue light, not 'high frequency flicker'.  So buy 'warm white' bulbs, which are also more pleasant -- and don't boost the total lumens.  LED compatible dimmers are also a nice feature.; we prefer the Lutron Maestro line which has a built-in range display that also helps you find the switch at night.  See:  Lutron Maestro LED+ Dimmer Switch for Dimmable LED, Halogen and Incandescent Bulbs, Single-Pole or Multi-Location, White-MACL-153MR-WH - The Home Depot


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 18, 2021)

This thread is from 2006... since then the price of LED bulbs has dropped down to or even lower than the price of fluorescent bulbs... most general stores around here don't even carry the fluorescent or incandescent bulbs any more... a couple years ago the 100 watt equivalent LEDS were priced vastly higher than the 60 watt and lower equivalents, but now they are all the same price.... 4 LED bulbs of 22 year life rating for $4... or lower...
20 - 30 years ago... don't remember just when, converted my house and some relatives houses to all fluorescent bulbs... local electric company, stores, and GE had a deal where they paid us about $1.50 per bulb to convert over, so we did... ever since then been saving about 1/3 on every monthly electric bill... some of my old fluorescents are still working, but have LEDs to replace with when they go... 
Noticed the LED flashlights have warning stickers on them that they are not to used by people with heart pacemakers...


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## Eddie_T (Dec 18, 2021)

Here is a weird comment. Note what I made bold.

Though LED light bulbs consume less electricity, *the same amount of electricity flows through the wiring system in your home. The bulb only uses a small amount of flowing electricity and the remainder is sent back to the wiring system*. This causes dirty electricity.​


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## Hamberg (Dec 18, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> Though LED light bulbs consume less electricity, *the same amount of electricity flows through the wiring system in your home. The bulb only uses a small amount of flowing electricity and the remainder is sent back to the wiring system*. This causes dirty electricity.



HUH?


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## Eddie_T (Dec 18, 2021)

I forgot to provide the link;  Do LED Lights Emit EMF? | Emfguardtips.com
I wonder if they really believe electricity works this way. I have ran into people that believe the neutral returns unused electricity to the source so that it can be resold.


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 18, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> Here is a weird comment. Note what I made bold.
> "Though LED light bulbs consume less electricity, *the same amount of electricity flows through the wiring system in your home. The bulb only uses a small amount of flowing electricity and the remainder is sent back to the wiring system*. This causes dirty electricity."​


​And the deadly Covid-2019 shots will keep you from getting, getting sick from, spreading, or dying from Delta-2020 and Omicron-2021... <sarcasm>​


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## Eddie_T (Dec 18, 2021)

When I ran out of incandescent bulbs I replaced them with CFLs as they burn out I replace with LEDs. I haven't noticed any change in electric bills but I have electric heat. With electric heat lighting is essentially free as energy dies a heat death. In the summer I use lighting less so not much savings there.


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## Guzzle (Dec 18, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> Noticed the LED flashlights have warning stickers on them that they are not to used by people with heart pacemakers...


Switch-mode power supplies in LED flashlights emit RFI?  I guess, but these switch-mode supplies are everywhere now, wall-warts, etc., but not that close to your chest.

And everyone knows that RFI/EMI = "dirty" electricity.


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## Rusty (Dec 18, 2021)

Soft white LEDS are not as good for doing close work as the old inside frost.


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## Eddie_T (Dec 18, 2021)

My voltage sniffer goes crazy around my bluetooth amp which is class D with a switching power supply.


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## Spicoli43 (Dec 19, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> I forgot to provide the link;  Do LED Lights Emit EMF? | Emfguardtips.com
> I wonder if they really believe electricity works this way. I have ran into people that believe the neutral returns unused electricity to the source so that it can be resold.



That goes along with wireless devices leaking dirty electricity... I go back to my story about the Doctor that had cases of Brain fog, headaches and aches and pains within his home happening to him, his Wife, and Kids... They had "Smart" phones always on, doing whatever online activity with them, wireless everything else including computers for personal use and the work use of Him and his Wife, Streaming devices in all rooms etc...

Being a Dr. and not being able to figure it out was what led him to research until he figured out it was the Wifi, and they ditched the "Smart" phones in favor of flip phones, and wired everything via Ethernet... With no dirty electricity constantly bombarding them, the symptoms vanished almost immediately.

I have a similar story personally, although my symptoms are still kind of with me because I use a modern 32" monitor. I need to get some Blue Light glasses. As far as using only Ethernet, it did significantly help me, and my eyes are much better going back to the almost impossible to find Incandescent bulbs.









						Electromagnetic hypersensitivity: biological effects of dirty electricity with emphasis on diabetes and multiple sclerosis - PubMed
					

Dirty electricity is a ubiquitous pollutant. It flows along wires and radiates from them and involves both extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields and radio frequency radiation. Until recently, dirty electricity has been largely ignored by the scientific community. Recent inventions of...




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## bud16415 (Dec 19, 2021)

A few years back I replaced the 4 ceiling lights floodlights in our kitchen with LED floods. When I turned them on we both jumped back and said OMG that is bright. Almost uncomfortably bright. Within a week or two we grew used to the extra brightness and now they don’t seem bright at all. I have no idea if it is us or the lamps dimming? They are still working great and bright enough for sure. Tempted to replace just one to see if they have dimmed.


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## Eddie_T (Dec 19, 2021)

People are concerned emergency generators might provide dirty electricity and harm sensitive electronics bt the first thing that happens in most electronics is a switching power supply which permits use of small cheap transformers.


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## Guzzle (Dec 19, 2021)

Same with us in the white-walled laundry room, fluorescent to LED, I could do surgery in there now.

3000 lumens gives public restroom level light in a 10'x10' room.  With 30,000 you can do watchmaking.

I think we're being sold more than we need, just like you have to buy more than you want at Costco.


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## zannej (Dec 19, 2021)

The LEDs in my living room ceiling fan keep burning out and/or dimming and flickering. They are not dimming bulbs as far as I know. I'm assuming it is a problem with the electricity/light fixture or switch. Any thoughts?

I like the bright white LEDs.


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## Eddie_T (Dec 19, 2021)

I there's an outlet on the same circuit I would check the voltage when flickering or dimming.


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## Guzzle (Dec 20, 2021)

Or a bad batch of LEDs but this is unlikely.


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 20, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> When I ran out of incandescent bulbs I replaced them with CFLs as they burn out I replace with LEDs. I haven't noticed any change in electric bills but I have electric heat. With electric heat lighting is essentially free as energy dies a heat death. In the summer I use lighting less so not much savings there.


My gas furnace died so I was heating electrically for a couple months but was shocked my new electric bills were $600-800/month... now with gas furnace working again, electric bills back to peaking at $55 and gas bills peaking at $150 monthly...


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## Guzzle (Dec 20, 2021)

"national average price was $9.52 per thousand cubic feet." for NG.

Elec. energy cost maybe 4x lower, you have to convert CCF to therms to kWh.
*OnlineConversion.com *
may help.


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 20, 2021)

Guzzle said:


> "national average price was $9.52 per thousand cubic feet." for NG.


That looks terribly high... by shopping around I'm paying $3.90 per thousand... 33.9c CCF... for my NG... 
(Wholesale is about 1/2 cent per thousand)


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## zannej (Dec 21, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> I there's an outlet on the same circuit I would check the voltage when flickering or dimming.


I'll have to figure it out. I found my father's sketches of the wiring but don't know if they were before or after some changes and the tenants mucked things about so I am not certain. Plus its hard to read as it was drawn in the 80s and has faded.

We've used different brand bulbs at different times. Same results. They worked at first and then burned out or started flickering. So, I'm guessing its the wiring.

Things have been good on the LED lamp I put in the hallway though. I'm currently looking for one I can install over the sink. I need to find a good hard-wired one safe for wet areas because sometimes the water splashes like crazy when I'm using the handheld sprayer.


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## Guzzle (Dec 21, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> That looks terribly high... by shopping around I'm paying $3.90 per thousand... 33.9c CCF... for my NG...
> (Wholesale is about 1/2 cent per thousand)


If you can't trust the Web, who can you trust?  
We pay $105 for 62 CCF/63.6 Therms, no shopping around, half that is distribution charge, etc..


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## Guzzle (Dec 21, 2021)

Tried to figure the energy cost of converting our house to all electric, finally did it for October, then realized I need the yearly cost, then realized if the elec. & NG people change their rates depending on demand it might be very hard to decide which costs less [elec or NG] depending on where you live.


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## Eddie_T (Dec 21, 2021)

I am all electric and have a buddy that has natural gas for furnace, water heater and a couple of gas logs. His total monthly bill is always much less than mine and his house is 800-1000 ft² larger.

BTW I tried my voltage sniffer on a couple of LED flashlights and got no response so they must not buck up the DC with a switcher.


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## zannej (Dec 21, 2021)

I've got all electric. There's no gas service for my area. (No gas, water, sewage, or wired internet). My electric company tacks on a $100 fee every month for what they call "excessive usage" because the house is old & not sealed up well, electric serves the workshop and shed as well and we need electric to pump the water. Only wires we have from any sort of utility are electric wires and a very shallow buried phone line.

I am trying to switch over to some more energy efficient things and hope to get the windows replaced or at least more insulated. Old steel single pane windows don't help-- especially since many of them are cracked/broken. Man, the LED lamps I saw when searching a few minutes ago were high priced. I need something water resistant but didn't see that as an option.


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## Guzzle (Dec 21, 2021)

The Average Electricity Rate in the U.S. is 10.42 cents per kilowatt-hour.
Hawaii has the highest average electricity rate of 30.55 cents per kilowatt-hour.
Louisiana has the lowest average electricity rate of 7.01cents per kilowatt-hour.
 Natural Gas Rates by State (December 2021) | Choose Energy


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## zannej (Dec 21, 2021)

Someone needs to tell my friend's power company that it's supposed to be 7.01cents because they are charging him up the wazoo. Louisiana comes out higher than the claim because of taxes and extra fees. I mentioned the $100 fee on top of the rates that have state and city service tax (same as sales tax). In my town the service/sales tax is 10.45%. My friend's bill was over $700 last month. 

I'm still trying to find a good damp-rated led light for above the sink. I can do plug in if I can hide the wire up in the cabinet above. I'm thinking remote control or touch pad control would be nice. Remote might get lost though.


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## Guzzle (Dec 22, 2021)

"damp-rated led light"

Today I have learned something.

So LEDs in fridges
when you open the door & let humid air in
it may condense on the lamp 
at the 38F temp &
so they won't last long?

For long life in fixtures I wire two incandescent bulbs in series, they're somewhat orangey in color.  Two 40w has each running at half voltage & 1/3 [not 1/4] the power.


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 22, 2021)

zannej said:


> Someone needs to tell my friend's power company that it's supposed to be 7.01cents because they are charging him up the wazoo. Louisiana comes out higher than the claim because of taxes and extra fees. I mentioned the $100 fee on top of the rates that have state and city service tax (same as sales tax). In my town the service/sales tax is 10.45%. My friend's bill was over $700 last month.
> 
> I'm still trying to find a good damp-rated led light for above the sink. I can do plug in if I can hide the wire up in the cabinet above. I'm thinking remote control or touch pad control would be nice. Remote might get lost though.


Do you ever need heat in your location? Is the electric just for A/C? Sales tax here is 7.25%...no tax on basic grocery store foods... 

Just buy a $1 plastic covered LED bulb and install it above the sink and see if it lasts... probably will... the outlet may not last long, though... if getting wet a lot... move the outlet as high as possible...


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 22, 2021)

Guzzle said:


> The Average Electricity Rate in the U.S. is 10.42 cents per kilowatt-hour.
> Hawaii has the highest average electricity rate of 30.55 cents per kilowatt-hour.
> Louisiana has the lowest average electricity rate of 7.01cents per kilowatt-hour.
> Natural Gas Rates by State (December 2021) | Choose Energy


My price for electric is highish, about 12c/KWH for combined electric and distribution...

Here's the natural gas prices per CCF (Hundred Cubic Feet) ('C' is hundred like a century is a 100 years) we choose a supplier from. (Looks like Jomentia has driven the prices way up now, glad I locked in my low 33.9c rate for a few years):


			Energy Choice Ohio - Natural Gas
		


In the summer, the distribution charge is almost the entire gas bill, in the winter, actual gas usage charge is most of the bill...


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## zannej (Dec 22, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> Do you ever need heat in your location? Is the electric just for A/C? Sales tax here is 7.25%...no tax on basic grocery store foods...
> 
> Just buy a $1 plastic covered LED bulb and install it above the sink and see if it lasts... probably will... the outlet may not last long, though... if getting wet a lot... move the outlet as high as possible...


Yes, the past few years it has been getting below freezing during winter. My friend is very sensitive to the cold. if it's 60 or below he is shivering (he has almost no body fat). He's been having a problem that his girlfriend's niece is sleeping in the living room (they lost their home during the recent hurricane) and she keeps the AC on full blast even when it is cold. Then there's the heating. The niece, nephew, and gf are constantly leaving the front door open. The electric powers the lights, ACs, water heater, tvs, charges devices, computers, etc at my friend's house. At my house it powers the water heater, water pumps, AC, lights, tvs, computers, devices, etc. It has to provide power to the house, shed for water well, and the workshop. My brother constantly leaves lights on so switching to LEDs has helped. We also have a broken back door that is letting cold air in.

Man, I wish groceries were tax free here. No state tax but the city charges 6% tax on all groceries and medicines (including prescription). Nothing is tax free here- not even internet (even though it is federally illegal to tax internet, they get away with it by calling it a "fee").

I found a good light for over the sink. 24" slim utilitech. My friend has several of them in his kitchen. I checked the wiring and I have a little blue plastic box in the cabinet above with a wire. So I can convert it to hardwire or add a plug and use a wireless waterproof switch lower down.


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## Guzzle (Dec 23, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> In the summer, the distribution charge is almost the entire gas bill,


You're paying to maintain the piping.


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## BuzzLOL (Dec 24, 2021)

Guzzle said:


> You're paying to maintain the piping.


My point was piping charge isn't always 'half' the bill...


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## Guzzle (Dec 24, 2021)

Is the piping charge constant?  Or maybe goes up with inflation?  
I'll have to read my bills more carefully.


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