# Plumbers



## itiswhatitis1 (Jan 28, 2012)

Why pay a plumber $100.00 hour. Plumber make it sound like it so hard. I solder 20 fitting in my basement and not 1 leak. Ran all the drain line in PVC little primer and glue it that easy. Never pay a plumber again.


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 28, 2012)

itiswhatitis1 said:


> Why pay a plumber $100.00 hour. Plumber make it sound like it so hard. I solder 20 fitting in my basement and not 1 leak. Ran all the drain line in PVC little primer and glue it that easy. Never pay a plumber again.



Good for you! How do you know you ran everything correctly? Just because it doesn't leak doesn't mean that it won't be a problem someday. 

Why should you pay a plumber? Cause there's more to it than just a little glue and primmer. A lot of plumbers are small businessmen. If they could clear that much an hour everyone would want to be a plumber. Factor in the cost of his vehicle, gas, insurance, workers comp, tools, inventory, licenses, training, taxes, clothing, overhead, bookkeeper, electric, cost of carrying receivables, and if he has a helper, add a whole lot more. He wishes for a small part when the dust settles.

And why do you want to come on here, your first post and bash some of the hardest working trades people in the business? It's OK to be proud of your accomplishments, but not at the expense of some trained professionals who spend much of their days cleaning up the mess of homeowners who have no idea what they are doing.


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## itiswhatitis1 (Jan 28, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:
			
		

> Good for you! How do you know you ran everything correctly? Just because it doesn't leak doesn't mean that it won't be a problem someday.
> 
> Why should you pay a plumber? Cause there's more to it than just a little glue and primmer. A lot of plumbers are small businessmen. If they could clear that much an hour everyone would want to be a plumber. Factor in the cost of his vehicle, gas, insurance, workers comp, tools, inventory, licenses, training, taxes, clothing, overhead, bookkeeper, electric, cost of carrying receivables, and if he has a helper, add a whole lot more. He wishes for a small part when the dust settles.
> 
> And why do you want to come on here, your first post and bash some of the hardest working trades people in the business? It's OK to be proud of your accomplishments, but not at the expense of some trained professionals who spend much of their days cleaning up the mess of homeowners who have no idea what they are doing.



The man at lowe's told me how to do it to code. He also does handman work and a lot of plumbing and sound like he no what he is doing. And look it up on this web site


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## paul52446m (Jan 28, 2012)

itiswhatitis1 said:


> The man at lowe's told me how to do it to code. He also does handman work and a lot of plumbing and sound like he no what he is doing. And look it up on this web site


It's nice to know we have a good handyman to answer our pluming questions!!
 Does your knowledge run in other fields also? I hope you got permits and inspections on the work you done. Its also nice to know that these guys at the 
 supper stores knows all the codes. After 40 years in business if i have a code question i will give them a call. Paul


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## kok328 (Jan 29, 2012)

If he's so knowledable regarding plumbing and code then why is he working at Lowes when he could be making $100/hr ?


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## Dionysia (Jan 29, 2012)

$100/hr may not sound like so much if your sewer lines break and you need to crawl through a pond of raw sewage to fix it...


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## Daddytron (Jan 29, 2012)

kok328 said:


> If he's so knowledable regarding plumbing and code then why is he working at Lowes when he could be making $100/hr ?



Same thing I was thinking... There are times when a DIY'er can tackle plumbing... and other times I would be glad to pay $100 an hour to have someone who knows EXACTLY what they are doing to fix things for me


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## Redwood (Jan 30, 2012)

itiswhatitis1 said:


> The man at lowe's told me how to do it to code. He also does handman work and a lot of plumbing and sound like he no what he is doing. And look it up on this web site



Oh Boy!
Put up some pictures of your work...
I'd like to see how a $10/hr Smockman told you to do things... 

I could use a good laugh...


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## itiswhatitis1 (Feb 2, 2012)

Still working great. Save a lot of money doing it my self. Why do you people say if you work at lowe's your a hack. So plumber can't work at lowe's.


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## nealtw (Feb 3, 2012)

This is an odd place for you to bring your rant. This site is full of people willing to help diyer's like your self and the pros that bring there expertize at no charge. You surely have never tried to run a service business and have no idea of the cost of doing business.


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## Redwood (Feb 5, 2012)

itiswhatitis1 said:


> Still working great. Save a lot of money doing it my self. Why do you people say if you work at lowe's your a hack. So plumber can't work at lowe's.



Many things will continue to work even if they aren't done right...
Here is some stuff that worked great... :rofl:

















continued...


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## Redwood (Feb 5, 2012)

....Continued from above















You may just be:
Breathing Sewer Gases...
Washing your dishes with grey water in the dishwasher...
installing a cross connection which endangers your water supply and your neighbors water supply as well...
Installing pipes which will cause corrosion in your plumbing system...

That's okay... And by the way I charge more than $100/hr... My Plumbing Works...
If you want it done at that price you will have to bring your plumbing to my shop....

Continued...


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## Redwood (Feb 5, 2012)

Go ahead post pictures of your fine work that you are so proud of... :hide:
Seriously! Put Up Or, Shut Up! 

At least buy my book and read it!






But seriously I'd like to see pictures of your fine work....
Come on now... Put Up or, Shut Up!


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 5, 2012)

Redwood, why do I get the idea we won't be seeing pics of his handy work?


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## Speedbump (Feb 6, 2012)

I didn't see anything wrong with those pictures.  Redwood, are you trying to tell us that there is something wrong with those installations?  I thought it all looked fine.  Actually better than some of my kludge plumbing adventures.:beer:  Maybe, I'll go over to Lowe's and get some advice on building a space shuttle.


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## steeler (Feb 6, 2012)

This guy is a joke- although it'll end up in tears. As a self taught re-modeller I know my limitations and to be humble is the best starting place.after many many years and countless trades under my belt I still have much to learn. Can't wait to see his photos


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## itiswhatitis1 (Feb 6, 2012)

Is that your handy work. Wow where did you get your license at. That where I can move and be a master plumber too


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 6, 2012)

itiswhatitis1 said:


> Is that your handy work. Wow where did you get your license at. That where I can move and be a master plumber too



Well, you've seen pics of Redwoods best, when can we see pics of yours?


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## Dionysia (Feb 6, 2012)

Redwood, I am still trying to figure out what the heck was going on in the picture with all the little blue tubs in it

Care to share any of the amusing stories with us?


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## Daddytron (Feb 6, 2012)

seeing stuff like that makes me glad I'm not a plumber... But, the humor is just great.


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## Redwood (Feb 10, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Redwood, why do I get the idea we won't be seeing pics of his handy work?



I'm not holding my breath to see them either...
Talk is cheap and this guy doesn't add up to half a penny...




Speedbump said:


> I didn't see anything wrong with those pictures.  Redwood, are you trying to tell us that there is something wrong with those installations?  I thought it all looked fine.  Actually better than some of my kludge plumbing adventures.:beer:  Maybe, I'll go over to Lowe's and get some advice on building a space shuttle.



It looks good from my house too...




Dionysia said:


> Redwood, I am still trying to figure out what the heck was going on in the picture with all the little blue tubs in it
> 
> Care to share any of the amusing stories with us?



Well they had a leak and rather than fix the leak they made a rather complex system of reservoirs that caught the water and drained into each other...

I found it to me more amusing than the clown that started the thread...


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## Dionysia (Feb 10, 2012)

[snorts] Good thing I wasn't drinking milk, Redwood - it would have shot right out my nose! I was supposing maybe they didn't know how to make the drainpipe connections or were too cheap to buy them and just did a waterfall of tubs from pipe to pipe.

Reminds me of the "patch" we found on the roof of our moneypit. Rather than fix the drainage problem from a window recess atop a lean-to roof, previous owners just let the rotted roof remain and "fixed" it with multiple alternating layers of rolled roofing and tar. My nephew accidentally stepped on it during the teardown and sunk about 4 inches into a squishy tar pit. Maybe the owners were related?


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## 1victorianfarmhouse (Feb 11, 2012)

Hmm, no recent responses by the latest genius, maybe his plumbing started leaking when he finally turned the water back on, or he got a job at Lowes?  Who knows, maybe he's making big bucks fixing other people's plumbing!


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## isola96 (Feb 11, 2012)

Plumbers shouldn't get paid 100hr and or several hundred dollars for 45min for fixing a broken radiator pipe from old grandparents who don't know better.


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## nealtw (Feb 11, 2012)

isola; what do you think he should charge for a head full full of knowledge and a truck full of parts.
Keep in mind he traveled to and from in a truck burned fuel he has to pay for . At some time he went and bought the parts in the truck and should be able to put some markup on stock.


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## isola96 (Feb 11, 2012)

nealtw said:
			
		

> isola; what do you think he should charge for a head full full of knowledge and a truck full of parts.
> Keep in mind he traveled to and from in a truck burned fuel he has to pay for . At some time he went and bought the parts in the truck and should be able to put some markup on stock.



It's like that with any trade really computers, cars, ect. Your really paying so much for the licensed part of it and now in NY they past the law now you need a inspection permits to change toilet out "really?"

If you need to come out to solder a coupling on a pipe that broke I can't imagine charging hundreds of dollars.
It's the fact that they can charge out the nose because they are licensed and certified.
The big plumbing companies are even worse then the small ones.


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## nealtw (Feb 11, 2012)

You are in a free country. Hire a plumber, make sure he is certified buy a truck, fill it with tools and parts and advertize cheap plumbing.


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## isola96 (Feb 11, 2012)

Well the only good thing I can say is I have done enough plumbing to kill a small animal I'm way too late to become a apprentice under a plumber & get certified therefore when I do it it's for peanuts I guess I'm just little jaded.


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## nealtw (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm not saying it dosn't hurt to pay the price, and the pro's at sites like this understand that too and thats why they are here to help people like yourself.


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## isola96 (Feb 11, 2012)

nealtw said:
			
		

> I'm not saying it dosn't hurt to pay the price, and the pro's at sites like this understand that too and thats why they are here to help people like yourself.



Thanks Neal!


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 11, 2012)

isola96 said:


> Plumbers shouldn't get paid 100hr and or several hundred dollars for 45min for fixing a broken radiator pipe from old grandparents who don't know better.



I'm in the roofing business, our minimum repair is $250.00. Seems high doesn't it? Well, we can't make money on a minimum repair. Why? Figure we have about $30K tied up in a vehicle, about 10K worth of tools on the truck, 2 employees on the truck, office overhead, business expenses, insurance, taxes, loss of profit on a profitable job taking time to do a small repair and travel time getting there and back. Yeah, it seems high till you start job costing and then you find you probably broke even at best. A 45 minute job has at least 3 billable hours in it.


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## isola96 (Feb 11, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:
			
		

> I'm in the roofing business, our minimum repair is $250.00. Seems high doesn't it? Well, we can't make money on a minimum repair. Why? Figure we have about $30K tied up in a vehicle, about 10K worth of tools on the truck, 2 employees on the truck, office overhead, business expenses, insurance, taxes, loss of profit on a profitable job taking time to do a small repair and travel time getting there and back. Yeah, it seems high till you start job costing and then you find you probably broke even at best. A 45 minute job has at least 3 billable hours in it.



For a business owner I completely understand the costumer won't think about all those things when they need the service and look at the bill after.


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## dgibson (Feb 12, 2012)

i am repiping my whole house on my own, its not exactly rocket surgery but there are some nuances. talking with the Ferguson plumbing supply folks who are supportive and encouraging, and they agreed with my observation that plumbing is deceptively _easy_ at times yet deceptively _difficult_ at other times. some things are a snap and you may be encouraged to think that its just advanced tinker toys, but when you have another problem you will realize that all those years of advanced "tinker toys" experience that a master plumber has is mighty powerful. my utmost respect is out for master plumbers, especially those that dont mind helping and educating a DIYer. so far, the Ferguson folks have been awesome as well as a few plumbers i have chatted with here and there. they all agree that you can save a lot of money doing things on your own, in my case quite a few $$thousand, but their knowledge is worth every penny if you need more specialized or difficult work. its just like auto mechanics,  i have rebuilt an engine before and much more other repairs, but the pro's have tons more specialized equipment and experience and can do so much more so much faster than i can, and they deserve to get paid for that. go to them with respect for their experience yet armed with some education of your own and you can make a good friend who will help you in the future and likely charge you an even more fair price.  just my $.02, now back to my project - i am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...........or should i say end of the roll of aquapex..  ;-)


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## Redwood (Feb 12, 2012)

isola96 said:


> Plumbers shouldn't get paid 100hr and or several hundred dollars for 45min for fixing a broken radiator pipe from old grandparents who don't know better.





isola96 said:


> It's like that with any trade really computers, cars, ect. Your really paying so much for the licensed part of it and now in NY they past the law now you need a inspection permits to change toilet out "really?"
> 
> If you need to come out to solder a coupling on a pipe that broke I can't imagine charging hundreds of dollars.
> It's the fact that they can charge out the nose because they are licensed and certified.
> The big plumbing companies are even worse then the small ones.





isola96 said:


> Well the only good thing I can say is I have done enough plumbing to kill a small animal I'm way too late to become a apprentice under a plumber & get certified therefore when I do it it's for peanuts I guess I'm just little jaded.



The cost of doing business as a legitimate plumbing company is higher than many imagine and our rates whether T&M or, Flat Rate must cover those costs or, we won't be there next time you call. It's that simple!  What company can exist losing money on every job?

I can sit home and do nothing and it will cost me less money than busting my butt all day and losing money on the job....

Some of the costs associated with running a legitimate company are:

Payroll, typically the average billable hours per employee are about 4.5 hours of the 8 hour day. There is time lost between the last customers door and your door which is paid...

Advertising all those yellow page ads, websites, mailings, and other forms of advertising cost money. Our customers need to find us just as much as we need them to find us. Where would it come from other than what the customer pays? Thin Air? 

Administrative costs, who answers the phone? Who does the payroll and bill paying? Who pays for employee benefits? Who tracks inventory and restocks the trucks? Who pays for the insurance? Who pays the taxes? All of these are passed on to the customer....

Training and licensing costs, the laws dictate that we maintain licenses in our trade and that we complete ongoing training to maintain our proficiency in the trade for your protection. 

We also are required to have insurance which covers our liabilities in the event of a fire caused by our torches, or a failure of our work causing a leak. Heck we are even liable for failure of the parts we buy and install in your home. This is again for your protection

Fleet costs, the trucks, the jetters, and all the other tools and equipment rolling down the road to your home to handle your plumbing problem costs money to buy, maintain, and replace which had better be paid for by the customer base... The money isn't coming from anywhere else....

Warranty costs, legitimate plumbing companies warrantee their work and we do this for your protection. Unfortunately as hard as we try to be perfect it doesn't seem to be in reach. Most of us are really good at what we do and manage to have warrantee work of less than 1% of the work we do. In addition we cover defects of the products we install... This costs money which is passed on to the customers to provide this level of protection...

These are but a few of the expenses legitimate plumbing companies face...

Business expenses need constant monitoring to keep them within the confines of what the market will bear or, the customer base is gone and we're out of business.

We are also out of business if our workload and customer billing does not cover these expenses...

So yes, Billing rates of what you mention are not unreasonable nor unexpected. 

If you don't want to pay the "Expensive Rates" of a legitimate plumbing company then by all means find an "Plumber on CraigsList" :rofl: who is unlicensed, uninsured, won't pull permits or, have inspections required by law for your protection performed. Not that his work would pass an inspection  Just be ready to pay a substantial part of the bill up front as he will need the money to go and buy the supplies needed for the job as he doesn't have established accounts at suppliers or, he may need to buy tools to perform the work as well. Maybe he'll just need the money to buy drugs too....

Hey Buyer Beware! You get what you pay for...

That Unlicensed Plumber off CraigList is a criminal that is telling you to save money by using his services...

Of course we aren't interested in matching his prices, if you expect us to it's not going to happen, as we are comparing apples and oranges, and his expenses are much lower than ours...

If you can live without the peace of mind that the work done on your home is properly done in accordance with the plumbing code, with a warrantee against failure, insured against damage to your home, completed in a reasonable time frame, by a carefully screened employee, and by a company that can be reached again with a simple phone call, then by all means have the work done for less... :hide:

You are not the customer that our company wants!


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## isola96 (Feb 12, 2012)

I need a nap from reading all that lol
Good points Redwood


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## Speedbump (Feb 13, 2012)

And then there's taxes.  The govt takes about 1/3 of our final earnings after all the expenses mentioned By Redwood above.  What a slap in the face that is, especially when they are pissing it away trillions at a time.


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## itiswhatitis1 (Feb 14, 2012)

This all you need to no!!!!


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## nealtw (Feb 14, 2012)

I have no doubt that lots of knowledgeable people work for the big box stores and local hardware stores and I think everyone will be happy that you were successfull with plumbing. What do you work at?


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 14, 2012)

We'd love to see pics of the awesome job you did so we can ewee and awee at the wonderfull accomplishments you have done. Share some pics, we would love to praise your work! Might even give you one of these:trophy:


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## isola96 (Feb 14, 2012)

That's just as bad as the plumbing for dummies book!


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## isola96 (Feb 14, 2012)

nealtw said:
			
		

> I have no doubt that lots of knowledgeable people work for the big box stores and local hardware stores and I think everyone will be happy that you were successfull with plumbing. What do you work at?



Does this mean if I get a job at home depot I will know all trades?!??......lol

I can't stand home depot I've been there more this week then a woman at jcpennys for shoe and bag sale!?..


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## nealtw (Feb 14, 2012)

I said lots not all.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 14, 2012)

isola96 said:


> Does this mean if I get a job at home depot I will know all trades?!??......lolQUOTE]
> 
> Yes, wearing the orange smock has mystical powers.


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## isola96 (Feb 14, 2012)

Sweet!!! Always wanted mystical powers! Rofl lol


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