# Moving a receptacle in an unfinished room with exposed everything



## Flyover (Sep 14, 2021)

I've cleaned up my basement mechanical room and will make that my new office. There is a junction box on the ceiling. The source runs into it, and out of it runs one line to the pull-chain-operated light fixture, and another line to a 2-outlet receptacle mounted on a stud between the furnace and water heater. Aside from whatever's run to the appliances that is all the electric I've got in there. Also, everything is exposed: no drywall. (You see the appeal.)

Problem is, I need that receptacle on the other side of the room where my desk is. So here's my question:

Is there a reason besides aesthetics why I can't unscrew the receptacle from the stud, pry off the staples holding the line running between it and the junction box, reposition the receptacle across the room where I need it, and re-staple the line (as neatly as possible of course)? 

Simply repositioning the receptacle without detaching/re-attaching at the junction box means the line would need to cross over or under either the line from the source or the line to the light. Not sure if that is a big no no for safety reasons or something. I would try to make sure the crossed lines were still separated vertically by at least a few inches.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 15, 2021)

Why not simply run a new #12/2+ romex, box and recep, from the "J" box.


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## Flyover (Sep 15, 2021)

@Snoony, three reasons:

1. I'm very comfortable attaching/detaching things from walls. I do not have any experience running new lines from electrical boxes.

2. I don't need an outlet between my furnace and water heater (nothing has ever been plugged into it since we moved there), but now I do need one by my desk.

3. I am trying not to have to buy anything new for this "project".

So back to my question: is it OK simply to pull the receptacle and line off the wall and relocate it without rewiring?


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## bud16415 (Sep 15, 2021)

Yep go for it. I have done it before.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 15, 2021)

1. We can instruct you.
2. Some folks like the convenience of an unencumbered recep., as say for instance, a vacuum, or a hot water recirc. system.
3. Sure, turn the breaker off, and good luck.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 15, 2021)

Snoonyb said:


> 1. We can instruct you.
> 2. Some folks like the convenience of an unencumbered recep., as say for instance, a vacuum, or a hot water recirc. system.
> 3. Sure, turn the breaker off, and good luck.


In my area prolly a fan or a dehumidifier to make a basement habitable.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 15, 2021)

He's in TX, so humidity may be the product of flood stage.


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## Flyover (Sep 15, 2021)

Who's in TX? I'm in Oh Hah as it says right under my name there.


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## kok328 (Sep 15, 2021)

It's always nice to have a "service outlet" by the furnace.
But, I understand your position and your plan is fine.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 15, 2021)

I thought I remembered you saying that, but I was still only a couple of blocks off.


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## Flyover (Sep 15, 2021)

Relocated the outlet pretty much as soon as I got home today. Works great!

BTW, the "service" outlet is still only 4 feet away from the furnace, maybe 6' from the water heater. This is a mechanical room, not an indoor basketball court.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 16, 2021)

If you are keeping the open stud industrial look it makes for some easy shelving by placing cross pieces between studs.


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## Flyover (Sep 16, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> If you are keeping the open stud industrial look it makes for some easy shelving by placing cross pieces between studs.


Yup. I'm not sure this particular room has studs in the right place for it -- one wall is mostly obstructed by the furnace and water heater, the other by my desk, and the third wall is masonry because it's the side of the foundation.

Why do people call this look "industrial"? There's nothing about it relevant to industry, it's more like "honest": as in, it's honestly what modern houses are made of and how they're structured. I think my dream house would have no drywall in it. If a wall had to look "nice" or contain insulation I'd use shiplap; ditto to create privacy. If I just needed to be able to hang stuff of non-16"x widths I'd add a strip of OSB going horizontally across. I hate drywall.


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## bud16415 (Sep 16, 2021)

My nephew has an unmarried buddy that lives in a 70’ trailer home. He got tired of the crappy trailer wiring and mounted a new panel right to the wall and moved the feeder to it. He then ran all new circuits for everything from the panel by stapling the romex to the inside of the walls not in the walls. He mounted J-boxes for everything screwed right to the walls and was done. He says now when he needs to work on it it’s right there where he can see it.

I told him that’s great but if he ever finds a woman she won’t live there and he said and smiled with “I know.”


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## zannej (Sep 24, 2021)

Flyover, I'm glad you were able to move the receptacle.-

Is there a problem with allowing insulated cables to touch? I imagine if there is a leak in the insulation-- like with the 220v line under the house that zapped my friend.

As always, you know I would love to see pics. LOL.


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## Sparky617 (Sep 24, 2021)

zannej said:


> Flyover, I'm glad you were able to move the receptacle.-
> 
> Is there a problem with allowing insulated cables to touch? I imagine if there is a leak in the insulation-- like with the 220v line under the house that zapped my friend.
> 
> As always, you know I would love to see pics. LOL.



Insulated cables touch all the time.  Kind of hard to avoid it.  The insulation is there to prevent conductors from touching. You can actually staple two pieces of Romex under one staple.  When you get to the panel you have a limited amount of wall stud to secure the cables.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 24, 2021)

@zannej If your friend was zapped you have a damaged cable as romex is  double insulated.


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## Flyover (Sep 24, 2021)

zannej said:


> As always, you know I would love to see pics. LOL.


I ended up not having to cross the lines, I just routed the Romex out and around...it sort of does an end run around the light fixture (it's coming out up near the top of this picture):



Then down (it's the line on the right)...



...to the receptacle:



It's not laid perfectly flat and it's got a bit of slack but that doesn't bother me.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 25, 2021)

You need to better secure the romex coming from out of the junction box. I believe you need a staple within at least 12" of the box. You can't just have romex floating in the air like that without anything securing it.


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## Sparky617 (Sep 25, 2021)

It may be within 6 inches.


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## Flyover (Sep 25, 2021)

afjes_2016 said:


> You need to better secure the romex coming from out of the junction box. I believe you need a staple within at least 12" of the box. You can't just have romex floating in the air like that without anything securing it.


Thanks for that info! You can't see in the photo, but I did staple it to the joist just on the other side of the light fixture, which is certainly within 12" and might be more like 8" (the fixture is maybe 4" across at the base plus about another 4" gap between it and the box).

If need be I guess I could add a staple in the side of the joist right above the box...


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## Eddie_T (Sep 25, 2021)

I wouldn't worry about it unless planning to sell. If prepping for sale wiring would prolly have to be routed properly in the probable wall spaces.


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## zannej (Sep 25, 2021)

You actually want a little slack going in to a receptacle in case you have to cut off the ends and pull a little more into the box. You can also put those cables through conduit and in a box designed for mounting outside of a wall. Helps protect the wires from being touched/damaged.


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## Sparky617 (Sep 26, 2021)

zannej said:


> You actually want a little slack going in to a receptacle in case you have to cut off the ends and pull a little more into the box. You can also put those cables through conduit and in a box designed for mounting outside of a wall. Helps protect the wires from being touched/damaged.


It looks like that is a handy box, one designed for surface mounting.  Conduit would give it a cleaner look, but isn't needed.


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## ctviggen (Sep 26, 2021)

I like the conduit idea, as It helps to protect the wires.


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## Flyover (Sep 26, 2021)

ctviggen said:


> I like the conduit idea, as It helps to protect the wires.


I follow the logic, but what am I protecting them from when they're up on the ceiling where nothing touches them? Seems like it's a purely aesthetic thing at that point.


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## zannej (Sep 26, 2021)

I mean for the ones that come down the wall to the box. Isn't that outside the wall? Or will it get drywalled over with a hole cut for the receptacle?


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## Eddie_T (Sep 26, 2021)

Why protect it, it's safe as is?


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## zannej (Sep 27, 2021)

Because of Murphy's Law. "Safe" is relative. Better safe than sorry. With my kind of luck, I would need to have extra protection for stuff.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 27, 2021)

What about the cord plugged into the receptacle?


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## 68bucks (Sep 27, 2021)

Flyover said:


> I follow the logic, but what am I protecting them from when they're up on the ceiling where nothing touches them? Seems like it's a purely aesthetic thing at that point.


When I built my shop the inspector said the wire must be secured within 12" of the box. I believe he also said you could not have an unprotected conductor within I believe 8' of the floor or something. It has to be in a wall or a conduit. I also had to change all my outlets less than I think it was 6' of the floor to tamper resistant plugs. Thought that was sort of weird for a detached workshop but that's the code here. I'm in Ohio but I don't know if that is a county thing or what. He said it was the same for a garage.


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## Flyover (Sep 28, 2021)

My mechanical room has no drywall, and I will not be adding any (that is kind of the point). The receptacle used to be on the other side of the room, mounted to one of the bare studs on that side of the room, and the cord was secured via staples along the stud and up along a joist. I moved the receptacle to the other side of the room (rerouting the cord as well). I secured the receptacle to the outside of the wood-paneled wall (as you can see in the picture) and secured the cord the same way as before: up and along the joist, with staples. The staple closest to the junction box is actually closer now than when the cord was routed the other way.

So, it's possible the people who originally put the receptacle in did it wrong, but I can confidently say the cable is not any MORE vulnerable now than it used to be. Keep in mind this room is not a shop, it is my mechanical room/office, and I am not moving equipment or workpieces in or out. I did move my desk in, but that involved picking it up 3" off the ground, and I placed the receptacle to allow clearance for this if I ever decide to move the desk back out and for some reason accidentally graze the wall as I do so.

If code requires that cords always be hidden behind drywall or 100% protected from any possible force, then how are there ever any unfinished basements or rooms in houses?


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## Eddie_T (Sep 28, 2021)

I think you're good, threads never die you'll prolly still be getting advice next year.


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## 68bucks (Sep 29, 2021)

Flyover said:


> If code requires that cords always be hidden behind drywall or 100% protected from any possible force, then how are there ever any unfinished basements or rooms in houses?


The basement in my last house was similar to what you have, exposed wiring with exposed studs. It was built in 1996. You can do wring any way you want if you don't pull a permit on have an inspection to pass. That was my last place, the owners did the basment themselves after construction. It was easy to see what was done during construction. There were a few overhead lights that had flexible conduit to the box they mounted on with a switch in a wall that was finished. That was all done by the builder. Some rooms were finished walls but in some storage areas the had made themselves there were outlet attached to studs with wire exposed. It was set up to be finished with wall board but was never done. I had no issue with and never changed it. I was just saying that an electrical inspector won't pass it, at least here. And Eddie_T is right. That made me laugh.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 29, 2021)

·  ·  ·  then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


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## Sparky617 (Sep 30, 2021)

68bucks said:


> The basement in my last house was similar to what you have, exposed wiring with exposed studs. It was built in 1996. You can do wring any way you want if you don't pull a permit on have an inspection to pass. That was my last place, the owners did the basment themselves after construction. It was easy to see what was done during construction. There were a few overhead lights that had flexible conduit to the box they mounted on with a switch in a wall that was finished. That was all done by the builder. Some rooms were finished walls but in some storage areas the had made themselves there were outlet attached to studs with wire exposed. It was set up to be finished with wall board but was never done. I had no issue with and never changed it. I was just saying that an electrical inspector won't pass it, at least here. And Eddie_T is right. That made me laugh.



My house built in 1999 had exposed wires in the basement walls.  No conduit, no MC flex cable used.  In contrast Chicago requires conduit for all wiring residential, commercial, industrial.  That speaks to the power to the unions to control the local building codes.


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## bud16415 (Sep 30, 2021)

The only place I worry about open wires running thru floor joists in a basement is in the location of the laundry. People have a way of using them to hang coat hangers on.


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## Flyover (Sep 30, 2021)

bud16415 said:


> The only place I worry about open wires running thru floor joists in a basement is in the location of the laundry. People have a way of using them to hang coat hangers on.


We have exposed pipes for that! (I'm joking, but I do have some of my extra plastic coat hangers hanging on the exposed pipes.)


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