# Wind Turbine Attached Galvanized Steel Pole



## tk3000 (Nov 19, 2015)

Hello Folks, 

Recently I acquired a small 12v 500watts wind turbine with all the goods (charge controller, dump load, etc), but the pole for the the installation as is normally the case. The wind turbine came straigh from Germany to my door, the following: 







I never built a pole before, and this will be a  large one (over 14 ft). Since they do not sell pre-fabricated poles for wind turbine for the general public, I am planiing on making one out of 2 1/2  galvanized steel pipes (normally used for fences) by coupling smaller ones together.  It seems that digging a 1 meter hole (below freezing line) and use regular pre-mixed concrete (two bags) would suffice (or would be a need to anchor it to the ground with a different support system). The upper portion of wind turbine pole will also be attached and thus supported to  a building/structure (back of the garage) as shown on the sketch below: 






I realize that the wind turbine represents a mechanical load on its support system, so was wondering how to best approach this case. Also, any hints about where to buy the support strap for the upper portion of theh pole? 

thks


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

Haven't got a clue, but you got me interested.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...search&hspart=avast&hsimp=yhs-001&type=agc511


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

I think that might be over kill, I think you could just look at antina masts and the hardwear for those.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

The zero clearence stack looks interesting.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

I'd rather overkill than have a 40 lb missle launched during a wind storm...


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

How much does the wire weight hanging from a weather head?


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

A service cable doesn't have a propeller strapped to it.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

I found this interseting and he does show a simple mast set up.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opP13e-TvHM[/ame]


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## tk3000 (Nov 19, 2015)

nealtw said:


> I found this interseting and he does show a simple mast set up.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opP13e-TvHM



Yep, I am familiar with this video (saw it a long time ago). He seems knowledgeable, but ultimately he is trying to sell his product: AC output wind turbines. This is an excerpt of my post on youtube back then: 

"P = V * I is valid for both AC and DC. The mainstay herein is that  DC usually uses low voltage which then is compensated by higher current output (I = dQ/dt), thus requiring more robust (and expensive) wiring. So being AC or DC has no bearing with the size of the wiring, besides  there is no inheriting   property of the DC that would hamper current flow or otherwise require wires with larger cross sectional area. By simply increasing the voltage in the DC source (arrange the solar panels in series) one would eliminate the need for expensive wires and increase the max length of the wires"


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

I will leave that discussion for people who understand what you are talking about I was looking for the more basic information.
Like your question about the mast.
Or what happens to the cable if the wind always turns the tail clockwise.
He talks about start up speed but he dosn't talk about when it would stop, would that be the same? If not I would want a starter.
I think from what I understand about propellers his talk about the blades is right on.
The more I think about, the questions come up


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## tk3000 (Nov 21, 2015)

nealtw said:


> I will leave that discussion for people who understand what you are talking about I was looking for the more basic information.
> Like your question about the mast.
> Or what happens to the cable if the wind always turns the tail clockwise.
> He talks about start up speed but he dosn't talk about when it would stop, would that be the same? If not I would want a starter.
> ...



It seems that he has some practical knowledge and some grasps in some concepts, but other things that he says are basically diametrically wrong. Simple example is that at some point he indicates that car batteries should be used -- there are some very specific situations that a separate bank made out of conventional batteries could added to deal with current outburst -- but normally only deep cycle batteries should be used in this setup. Then, the selling pitch takes place; and he declares that AC generators and current are superior and the current will flow on the outskirts of the wire which is a non-sense...  

With DC volt the resistance will decrease quadratically with the radius, indicating that it's the cross-sectional area is the physical dimensional property that matters. 

AC current due to the its oscillating nature generates an exterior magnetic field due to currents that gravitates on the surrounds of the conductor that creates this mentioned exterior magnetic field which then cancels out with its own internal magnetic field and culminates with something called skin effect whereby current tend to concentrate on the exterior of the conductor. The skin effect implies that only a small portion of of the conductor area is effective used for current flow. The eddy current and consequent skin effects constitutes a loss during transmission of power, and on top of that you have the underutilization of the conductor medium (lesser area used for current flow) with then increase resistance and thus more losses due to resistance.  The only reason we all use AC instead of DC to power things is due to the fact that back in 1905 it was technologically  impractical or impossible to easily upper and lower the DC voltage (very easy to upper or lower AC with coils/transformers).

All in all, DC is a way better choice in all possible ways for wind turbines, solar, and beyond. 


Sorry for the rant but i had to take that off my chest. This guy is talking non-sense.


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## tk3000 (Nov 21, 2015)

Yeah,  I am still trying to figure outwhat I will use for the mast. I was considering 1 5/8 galvanized steel fence posts but there are no couplers or strong means of couplings available. So, I was looking into large galvanized conduits which have threaded ends.  

"He talks about start up speed but he dosn't talk about when it would stop, would that be the same? If not I would want a starter." 

I don't know much about wind turbines, I am more familiar with solar since I have been using solar for a long time now and just starting with wind. I guess it would stop due to lack of wind, air resistance, gravity,etc. I am not sure about cables, but I would imagine that it uses induction.


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## nealtw (Nov 23, 2015)

Have you looked for used antena towers, CB or Ham are often 20 to 30 ft.


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## Chris (Nov 23, 2015)

Have you gone by your local metal yard to see if they have any schedule 40 galvanized steel pipe in your size? If they do have it but not in galvanized they can usually have that done pretty cheap. How tall are you trying to go?


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## tk3000 (Dec 4, 2015)

Chris said:


> Have you gone by your local metal yard to see if they have any schedule 40 galvanized steel pipe in your size? If they do have it but not in galvanized they can usually have that done pretty cheap. How tall are you trying to go?



Not yet, I will check that out. I found out that the 1 1/2 (or maybe 1 5/8) fence post would accommodate and fit the wind turbine yawn, so that is something I have to keep in mind (the inside diameter of the pipe needs to be a good fit for the wind turbine yawn.

I am still planning the whole thing, but I would say that it is going to be between 14 to 18 feet tall (the garage  building does not have many obstructions nearby), and the parcel of land whereon the garage and house seats is large so no buildings nearby (so no many obstructions for the wind currents).


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## tk3000 (Dec 4, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Have you looked for used antena towers, CB or Ham are often 20 to 30 ft.



So far I havent looked into antenna towers. But I was wondering whether or not they would be sturdy enough, anyway I will take a look into them. 

thks!


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## slownsteady (Dec 4, 2015)

Not an expert here, but just wondering if you have to take into account any wind deflection off the roof or sides of the building. I know a chimney needs to be a certain height in order to avoid down draft......
And of course there's blade clearance and stuff like that too.


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## tk3000 (Dec 4, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Not an expert here, but just wondering if you have to take into account any wind deflection off the roof or sides of the building. I know a chimney needs to be a certain height in order to avoid down draft......
> And of course there's blade clearance and stuff like that too.



yeah, I have taken everything into account. I just threw a number, and still have to measure height of the highest point on the roof. But the wind turbine itself will be few at least 6ft above the highest point on the roof. Anyhow, I am still experimenting with it and  can get it higher.  

thks


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## nealtw (Dec 4, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Not an expert here, but just wondering if you have to take into account any wind deflection off the roof or sides of the building. I know a chimney needs to be a certain height in order to avoid down draft......
> And of course there's blade clearance and stuff like that too.



I think the first thing they look at is the flexing of the tower as every time a blade lines up with the tower, the tower will flex, setting up a vibration.

I am sure there is a science in deciding on how much strength is needed and how much flex the structure can take.


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## beachguy005 (Dec 5, 2015)

The issue I have with your plan is all the potential stress would be on where you connect it to the rake boards.  I don't know how structurally sound they are but I would do it a bit differently.
I would use 1.5" or 2" rigid steel conduit, run it from the ground, attached directly to the wall with straps and through the roof with a mast flashing. Just clamp your turbine to the conduit with C clamps.


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## slownsteady (Dec 5, 2015)

Can't tell from the pic, but how big is the unit? Will you be able to hoist it up on to the pole?


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## tk3000 (Dec 11, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Can't tell from the pic, but how big is the unit? Will you be able to hoist it up on to the pole?



It is a fairly small unit. The ebay listing for the turbine has all the details: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-HYBRI-K...033505?hash=item58c42752e1:g:JR4AAOSwqu9VRhSL

I will simply carry it up with me using a ladder and place it in place. At least that was my initial plan. Anyhow, I had to postpone installing it since I have too many other things going on now. 

Too bad there is so many cloudy days in Central Ohio, my small solar array barely make any power in such conditions one day after another... Sometimes wished I had moved to North or South Caroline


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## tk3000 (Dec 11, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> The issue I have with your plan is all the potential stress would be on where you connect it to the rake boards.  I don't know how structurally sound they are but I would do it a bit differently.
> I would use 1.5" or 2" rigid steel conduit, run it from the ground, attached directly to the wall with straps and through the roof with a mast flashing. Just clamp your turbine to the conduit with C clamps.



It is a fairly light and small turbine. I am still planing on how to approach it, and certainly the distribution of the load is very important. I did consider using the concrete walls as a support too, but  using a mast flashing would be too much work

thk!


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## frodo (Dec 11, 2015)

I have not read this whole thread, 

this is my opinion on your mast.


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## frodo (Dec 11, 2015)

standoff bracket detail


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## tk3000 (Dec 16, 2015)

frodo said:


> standoff bracket detail



Thanks a lot for the detailed pics and diagrams. So, instead of the fiascia board I should use the eaves? It also seems that I would have to fabricated th we bracket. 

Due to the large no of things to do I postpone the wind turbine install for the near future (hopeofully mid of January). I will be back soon to this thread, and will keep you all posted! thks


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## tk3000 (Mar 10, 2016)

Only recently I did perform test with the wind generator, and it turns out that is defective, low quality, and with design flaws. To make matters much worse the company behind it are made out of crooks. So, please, do not buy it. Below is write reporting the situation:

I bought the item few months ago but never got around to install or testr it due to other activities and the onslaughter of the winter.

I did contact the seller for no avail: comes with redundant arguments that make no absolutely no-sense whatsoever. I also posted a video online portraying the subpar, low quality, non-functional wind generator that I unfortunately bought off ebay.The item is supposed to have a warranty for a minimum of one year. This is shipped from a seller in Germany, but it is made in Turkey. The quality of item is subpar, and the seller seems to be a crook whom will not honor any warranty and comes up with non-sensical arguments. Customers have the right to a proper and rightful warranty services or remedies  to obtain his/her money back in its absence.

https://youtu.be/jHLaUSDebh0

As indicated in the video the win generator is being spinned by a a high speed/rpms+high quality 18V Dewalt drill, and its output is maxing out at 4V . 

It may seem at first that  I was commending this particular wind generator and its company, so I needed to rectify the record: it is a lemon


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## nealtw (Mar 10, 2016)

So what makes these thing better than an old 12 volt generator


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## tk3000 (Mar 10, 2016)

nealtw said:


> So what makes these thing better than an old 12 volt generator



Overall, the principle is the same: technologically speaking wind generator are fairly old technology (solar panels are high tech in comparison). But a wind generator are often made of  light alloys, composite plastics, and/or carbon fiber. It should withstand rough weather conditions and have good aerodynamics. But point of failures often are the usual culprits: things like ball bearings (to be expected)


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## nealtw (Mar 10, 2016)

I have never let a generator run with out a regulator to see what they would produce. Call me a redneck but at this point I would be looking for something small enough to fit in that shell.


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## tk3000 (Mar 10, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I have never let a generator run with out a regulator to see what they would produce. Call me a redneck but at this point I would be looking for something small enough to fit in that shell.



Yeah, a regulator is an important component of this system. Basically, it would need a charge controller/regulator and a dump load (large resistors) to shunt excess current. But for test purposes of the wind generator itself, it is important to read the raw AC voltage: this wind generator has 3 phases, so I obtained readouts of two phases to get a proper reading. In this particular situation I would expect to obtain readings of about 24VAC or more. A more sophisticated charge controller (MPPT technology) would even convert the excess voltage in extra currents in most situations instead of wasting it. 

Below is a link to more or less complete setup for a regulator for a wind generator: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-IN-ONE-...r-wind-turbine-and-solar-panels-/371106185879


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## nealtw (Mar 10, 2016)

That stuff is way out of my league.


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