# Fixing lights and repairing an outlet



## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

The bathroom lights are not working in a mobile home. The bulbs are fine. I don't know exactly which breaker controls it, but I turned all of them off, then back on.

There is a switch in the room that controls it. I don't know how to test this switch.

Similar problem with electrical outlet in other room. Perhaps it is an old style outlet, but I can't figure out how to disconnect the wires.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

It should open from the back somehow but if you have enough cable length you could just cut it off and install new.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNfCug586aQ[/ame]


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## kok328 (Feb 28, 2017)

dumb question but, did the outlet only work with the light switch on?
is the outlet on the opposite side of the wall with the light fixture?
are there any GFCI outlets that are not working or need to be reset?
are you getting power to the light switch?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

kok328 said:


> dumb question but, did the outlet only work with the light switch on?
> is the outlet on the opposite side of the wall with the light fixture?
> are there any GFCI outlets that are not working or need to be reset?
> are you getting power to the light switch?



That might have been it, but it's too late now, I already cut the wires. I'm going to a mobile home supply store to get a new outlet tomorrow.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> It should open from the back somehow but if you have enough cable length you could just cut it off and install new.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNfCug586aQ



Those are not exactly what mine looked like, but you're saying I should replace them with more traditional equipment that is sold at Home Depot? I was looking for replacements that looked identical to what I removed.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Those are not exactly what mine looked like, but you're saying I should replace them with more traditional equipment that is sold at Home Depot? I was looking for replacements that looked identical to what I removed.



You can get ones that look just like what you have but more regular stuff and likely cheaper than mobile stuff.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> You can get ones that look just like what you have but more regular stuff and likely cheaper than mobile stuff.



Okay I'll just go to Home Depot then.

I have a switch and an outlet. Each have two sheathings that contain a black, white, and ground.

Is this correct? Blacks go to separate brass/copper terminals, grounds get twined and attached to the green ground nut, the two white wires go to separate silver terminals?


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Okay I'll just go to Home Depot then.
> 
> I have a switch and an outlet. Each have two sheathings that contain a black, white, and ground.
> 
> Is this correct? Blacks go to separate brass/copper terminals, grounds get twined and attached to the green ground nut, the two white wires go to separate silver terminals?



That works for the outlet.
In the switch box, the two whites are nutted together and the two blacks go the the screws.

When you buy boxes, ask for old box, they fit in the hole and have flaps that swing out behind the drywall.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> That works for the outlet.
> In the switch box, the two whites are nutted together and the two blacks go the the screws.
> 
> When you buy boxes, ask for old box, they fit in the hole and have flaps that swing out behind the drywall.



In the switch, the two whites are nutted together and attached to nothing?


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> In the switch, the two whites are nutted together and attached to nothing?



Yes the power is on the black wire goes thru the switch to the light and the white and the black are connected to the light .


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Yes the power is on the black wire goes thru the switch to the light and the white and the black are connected to the light .



Not sure I followed that.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

There are a bunch of ways you might find them wired but yours looks like the most common. Hope this helps.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> There are a bunch of ways you might find them wired but yours looks like the most common. Hope this helps.



Now I get it.

This is making me think that the other is controlled by a switch since it has two sets of three wires in the box.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Now I get it.
> 
> This is making me think that the other is controlled by a switch since it has two sets of three wires in the box.



Three wire can mean a few things, some times it is just a cheaper way to move two circuit thru a house and they both use the same white. You want to figure out how to get into the old outlet and see how it was wired.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Three wire can mean a few things, some times it is just a cheaper way to move two circuit thru a house and they both use the same white. You want to figure out how to get into the old outlet and see how it was wired.



I already cut the wires.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I already cut the wires.



But if you open the outlet you can see what is wired to what.
Did you have a fan that worked on the same circuit.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> But if you open the outlet you can see what is wired to what.
> Did you have a fan that worked on the same circuit.




No, the fan was on a different circuit.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

this one looks like yours. it has instruction for opening it on the back
https://www.completemobilehomesupply.com/Outlet_Receptacle_p/outlet01.htm

When two circuits are together in one cable, the breakers should be tied together so they both turn off together.
Does the fan have a switch of it's own.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> this one looks like yours. it has instruction for opening it on the back
> https://www.completemobilehomesupply.com/Outlet_Receptacle_p/outlet01.htm
> 
> When two circuits are together in one cable, the breakers should be tied together so they both turn off together.
> Does the fan have a switch of it's own.



No, the fan has no switch.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> No, the fan has no switch.



When does it run?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Feb 28, 2017)

nealtw said:


> When does it run?



When the chain is pulled.


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## nealtw (Feb 28, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> When the chain is pulled.



...................


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## afjes_2016 (Mar 1, 2017)

Your hands may be tied when it comes to replacing any of the switch or receptacle boxes for the mobile home.

Meaning, the wall cavities usually are very narrow in depth and this is the reason why they use the self-contained boxes where the switch or receptacle is part of the box itself.

Using a standard "old work" box from the HDepot or Lowes or any home improvement center may cause an issue with the depth of the box thus limiting the number of conductors you can put in the box. Even using on of THESE shallow boxes presents a challenge if the wall material is thick it becomes very difficult to tilt the box into the opening and push it flush to the wall surface.

Quite honestly when I get a call for a mobile home/trailer I tend to find excuses that I am too busy at that moment to go on the call because I know it will be nothing short of a nightmare and end up costing me more in my time and frustration. I did a few trailers/mob homes for friends and hate working on them.


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## nealtw (Mar 1, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> When the chain is pulled.



afjes_2016 made a good point, check the depth of the wall. A standard wall is    3 1/2 inches between the drywall and the the other drywall.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 1, 2017)

I bought identical replacements and I am having a hell of a time trying to get the wires in. Should I strip them past the point where they go in the box?

I can't even get the first one in.

Any ideas?

They said they made a special tool to do this, but it cost $100. They told me a flathead screwdriver would do the job, but it doesn't seem to be working for me.


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## nealtw (Mar 1, 2017)

Did you see what the tool looked like?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 1, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Did you see what the tool looked like?



No.

I did not.


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## nealtw (Mar 1, 2017)

I doubt they strip it, but I have not seen the tool.


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## nealtw (Mar 1, 2017)

maybe you can rent the tool.


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## afjes_2016 (Mar 2, 2017)

And again, this is why I "run the other way" and :hide:  when it comes to working on these homes.

It depends on the type you got. Some just clamp down on the conductors and the clamp has little sharp points that dig into the insulation to make contact with it. Can you post the model make of the connectors you got or at least some type of identification of the part so we can work with you.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 2, 2017)

I hired help


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## afjes_2016 (Mar 3, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I hired help



Please be sure to come back and let us know how things went with the person you hired. I hope that person has worked on homes like yours before. Some may say they have but when they start opening up the boxes and find the self contained boxes say "what the heck is this thing?". Or they just assume the standard size old work boxes will fit in the wall cavities until they go to put one in and low and behold - "it won't fit!"

The other problem I found using those self contained boxes is that there is no "slack" to make use of. The romex going into the boxes is very short mainly because all the stripped sheathed part of the romex has to fit in that little tiny box. So if the conductors are not in good shape when the boxes are changed there won't be much romex to work with to try and get further down the romex to work with better conductor insulation. Putting it short; working with these boxes is just a PITA! I can see maybe him/her suggesting using wire mold boxes as a cure.

Wishing you luck that all goes well with this project. Glad you passed it off to someone with more experience as you would have faced a lot of frustration with this.


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## bud16415 (Mar 3, 2017)

afjes_2016 said:


> Please be sure to come back and let us know how things went with the person you hired. I hope that person has worked on homes like yours before. Some may say they have but when they start opening up the boxes and find the self contained boxes say "what the heck is this thing?". Or they just assume the standard size old work boxes will fit in the wall cavities until they go to put one in and low and behold - "it won't fit!"
> 
> The other problem I found using those self contained boxes is that there is no "slack" to make use of. The romex going into the boxes is very short mainly because all the stripped sheathed part of the romex has to fit in that little tiny box. So if the conductors are not in good shape when the boxes are changed there won't be much romex to work with to try and get further down the romex to work with better conductor insulation. Putting it short; working with these boxes is just a PITA! I can see maybe him/her suggesting using wire mold boxes as a cure.
> 
> Wishing you luck that all goes well with this project. Glad you passed it off to someone with more experience as you would have faced a lot of frustration with this.



My neph lives out the other side of the sticks just past the boonies and almost to end of earth. His neighbor Richie lives in an Alumnaminium circa 1970 with all aluminum wiring on top of all the snap together Jboxes and special outlets. 

He said you have to come over and see Richies place he put in a new service panel 100A and rewired his whole 70 long place in one day. He mounted the panel right on the wall next to the old one moved the feed wire over and wired the whole place with #12 stapled right to the wall about 6 down from the ceiling when he wanted to branch off he screwed a 4x4 box to the wall with one outlet with a steel cover plate and then stapled the cable straight down to 18 off the floor another 2x4 box with an outlet. Ceiling lights and switches the same way every inch of wire is inside the living space and visible.  He did a fairly neat job of keeping the wires flat to the wall and straight and took his risk of dieing in a fire way down to what he had. Given his whole place might be worth 500 bucks I thought he did ok. He said he did it because he was tired of the wires melting off in the walls.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Mar 3, 2017)

The outlet was replaced with a standard one.

The switch in the bathroom wasn't the problem. This still has to be fixed, but there's something wrong with the wiring in one of the bathroom fixtures.


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## nealtw (Mar 3, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> The outlet was replaced with a standard one.
> 
> The switch in the bathroom wasn't the problem. This still has to be fixed, but there's something wrong with the wiring in one of the bathroom fixtures.


Power goes from one outlet to the next so the problem could be another outlet or a bad wire in the wall.


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## afjes_2016 (Mar 6, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Power goes from one outlet to the next so the problem could be another outlet or a bad wire in the wall.



That sounds logical Neal but one trailer I worked on the power went to the light fixture in the room and then to the other receptacles in the room along with a switch loop by the door all coming from that light fixture box. There were 6 romexs in that light fixture box. I don't know how that trailer first past electrical inspection with a loaded light fixture box like that.

Problem with running new circuits in a trailer/mobile home is that there are what is vapor barriers above the ceilings in some of them to the small attic space and below the floor. So running new circuits is quite difficult without disturbing that barrier.

NOTE: I call them vapor barriers for lack of proper terminology but I think you know what I mean.


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