# Removing a wall



## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Hi All,

First time posting here.  

I recently bought a load-bearing brick house.  Meaning the floor joists all run a 14ft span and are resting on the bricks, in pockets.  The joists are 16"  on center and all run perpendicular to the brick walls they rest on. 

I want to remove the wall separating my dining room and living room.  The wall that meets the stairs will become a half wall and the other side of the wall will be complete removed.   This wall currently has an archway in it, that is about 6 ft wide and the plaster is beginning to crack, if that makes a difference.

I'm almost certain this is not a load-bearing wall since all of the joists carry the load back to the exterior brick walls.  The roof is also a flat roof and has the load carried the same way as the first and second floor.  I've checked the basement and all of the joists run just as described.  The wall in question is also quite shakey, if I rock back and forth with it.

Am I safe to remove the wall?  

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

Welcome to the site. 
My only question is stairs, the wall beside the stairs is often supporting the floor above the wall.


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

Are the stairs running the same direction as the joists? If they are the joist on both sides of the opening will be doubled. 

If the plaster is going and you don&#8217;t want the wall it is best to first remove all the plaster and lath and then you will clearly see what you have. If it&#8217;s not load bearing go for it and if it looks like it is you will have more knowledge of the structure with the plaster gone and then figure out how to restructure it. 

One clue in old houses if the flooring is run under the wall you can tell by looking at the spacing sometime and comparing the wood.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks!  

The stairs run perpendicular to the floor joists.  One side of the stairs is up against an exterior wall and the other is open to the dining room.  

The wall in question, blocks the view of the stairs if you were at the bottom of the staircase.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

If the stair case opening is supported by the floor framing upstairs then you will find a double floor joist at each end of the opening and a double beside the stairs with some older method of tieing them in. I can almost garrentee you will not find it there, You can put that stuff in but it will need access thru the ceiling or the floor above.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

nealtw said:


> If the stair case opening is supported by the floor framing upstairs then you will find a double floor joist at each end of the opening and a double beside the stairs with some older method of tieing them in. I can almost garrentee you will not find it there, You can put that stuff in but it will need access thru the ceiling or the floor above.



I redid my flooring on the second floor and their is a double joist at the top of the stairs and another like you described on the open side of the stair case.  I'll look into my basement ceiling now to see what the bottom end of the stairs are supported by.

I don't think any of this makes a difference for that wall I want to take down, but I will see what's what once the plaster is removed.


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

DIYNYC said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The stairs run perpendicular to the floor joists.  One side of the stairs is up against an exterior wall and the other is open to the dining room.
> 
> The wall in question, blocks the view of the stairs if you were at the bottom of the staircase.


  What do you find directly below the wall in question in the basement?


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> What do you find directly below the wall in question in the basement?



I will take a look when I get home from work and report back.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

Even if there is no bearing below, when built this wall would have connected everything together, so as a unit the load would have speard thoughout the structure. I think as the wall has deteriated over time say that system has failed and the structure is no longer working as a unit. With or with out the wall some structure repairs may be needed.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Here are a couple pics.  One of the wall in question and the other of where the double joist is ( it's where in pointing).


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Pic of where joist is


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

See where you are pointing, look straight up and see the ceiling stops at the stairs so the upstairs floor joist don't go to the brick wall, what ever is holding them up is tied to the wall that you want to remove. In a house built today there would be a wall or a post down in the basement to help with the load. Or the floor joists in the room with the stairs are running the other way.
You won't know for sure until you remove a little ceiling on one side of the wall you would like to remove.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Here's a picture of the point where the opening is tied into the 2nd story joists. It is 48" from the wall in question.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

I do like the molding on your walls
I would still start by removing some ceiling in front of the wall first and prove there isn.t a beam sit there, but you will likely be fine.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks!  Start with the ceiling on the side of stairs or on the other side of the wall?  And am I looking for a beam in the wall itself like a header or a double joist above the wall?


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## bud16415 (Mar 14, 2015)

You ether have a beam running thru the wall you hope to take down or a beam running across at the beginning of the ceiling penetration of the stair well or a column going down about at the right hand side of the archway in first photo. That column ether goes to basement or rests on a beam below floor. 

Are the ceiling heights different in the two rooms? 

I personally like the architectural appeal of the rooms divided as they are even with removing the wall you will still have to deal with the two step up to the landing. I think you mentioned a short wall there IMO that would look out of place with the style of house you have. 

We don&#8217;t know your big plan on why you want the wall removed so maybe there is more to it.


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## CallMeVilla (Mar 14, 2015)

Only one pic in your post.  Been watching this discussion, expecting pics so I could comment ...  BTW, pretty house.

Hmmmm ....  Now I see them all .... must have been a computer glitch


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## bud16415 (Mar 14, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> Only one pic in your post. Been watching this discussion, expecting pics so I could comment ... BTW, pretty house.


 

I count three pics.


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## slownsteady (Mar 14, 2015)

Not sure what your intentions or design preferences are, and maybe because your pic reminds me of my grandmothers house back in Bklyn, but here's an unsolicited suggestion for keeping the arch and getting you some light and a view of the staircase. The gray box represents a window or pass-through kind of opening and can work with the geometrics of the moldings on the wall.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for the input everyone! 

Me and my wife decided on the opening look, like slownsteady suggested.  Once I open up the portions of the walls, I will frame it out and then trim it to match the rest of the trim.

Appreciate everyones input!

Will post pics in a few weeks when it's all done.


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## slownsteady (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm looking forward to seeing the result!:beer:
Make sure you give the frame enough support.


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## nealtw (Mar 16, 2015)

We never discussed the bathroom upstairs and plumbing that might be in the wall.


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## DIYNYC (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks Slow!

nealtw,  all the plumbing for the upstairs bathroom is between the kitchen and dining room.  I've redone some of the plumbing, to fix things the previous owners did poorly, so I've got a good idea of where all of the supply and drain lines are.  Definitely no plumbing in the walls I'm looking to remove.


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