# Green it all?



## synthetic (May 8, 2006)

Just curious on what is the opinion on using only the green gypsum drywall around bath/shower area of bath and using drywall on rest? Reason I ask is because I am in middle of doing my bath with my father and he has told me we need only the green gypsum board around the bath and shower area and rest could be drywall. I question this especially after he told me I should vent my fan into my attic. I am just wondering if doing whole bath in green wall is waste of money or is this the common practice or is doing only shower area acceptable?

of course all green seems best to be safe but I am over budget on this project already by several hundred and don't want to spend more than I have to so I am just looking for more opinions before I follow my father's advice


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## woodworkingmenace (May 8, 2006)

Well, does moisture only go into your shower and no place else?  Can you securely trap it there?  I dont think so, so I would use it all through out the bathroom, to prevent humidity from penetrating the walls into other rooms, or compromising other things. (In my neck of the woods, green board is only a buck more than gypsum board, or dry wall,  so the cost is negligable).

(Its what I did, and its only my humble opinion).

Venting to the ATTIC?  NOOOO WAY!   

You will have mold up there!

You will create ice conditions in the winter time, thus promoting ROT and Decay!

You are inviting TERMITES to your location by doing this!

Who knows about other critters

No, you either vent it out the wall, or out an vent through the roof!

Personally, I would put a vent near the floor, about 12" above it, and in a location where you will not have any obstructions, that being a table, or shelf for this and that, that women love to put in thier bathrooms
(You WILL need to clean the fan blades every 6 months or a year).   Near enough to the toilet to expel odors from it, and water vapors are heaviest near the floor, so they will be taken out rather quickly that way.   

(No, I have nothing personally against the fan being in the ceiling of the shower, I just like mine next to the floor where it does the best of both worlds and a whole lot of good).

I vented mine out the side of the house, and it came with a hood over it, that has a spring mounted lever so that air infiltration didnt come back and cold with it.  Also, make sure its "big enough"... (You dont have to get a huge 8 inch one like I did, but it has to exchange the air enough times to expel the moisture, so incase you DO go with drywall (*cringe*), then you might have a chance of saving it from damage from moisture.

Just my two cents for what its worth and a wee bit extra for the collection plate...

Jesse


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## IHI (May 8, 2006)

Green has'nt been used for years in any remodel or new construct in our area for years. Your not supposed to use it on the ceiling either since the additional weight of the product will lead to sagging and/or popped nails/screws. Once you apply proper paint to the wall the gypsum is sealed from any moisture....just like painting the exterior of your home so to speak.

As far as venting, you NEED top get it out the roof or through a wall if your bath is on a 2nd or 3rd floor. Venting inside the home is only asking for mold/mildew and rot as mentioned above...inspector catches that your permit will not be signed until you change it and they will look for a roof vent or wall vent if they know what they're doing....either way you need to do it for piece of mind.

As far as installing a fan directly about the shower area that will have to be on it's own seperate GFCI circuit other than the brand new GFCI circuit you already had to run into your bathroom. In my area they also make us install a arch fault breaker as well if the fan is within 36" of tub/shower area.


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## Square Eye (May 8, 2006)

Green board around the tub or shower is fine. IHI is right about the fact of less contractors using it. Most inspectors around here require semi-gloss paint in bathrooms and kitchens. The semi-gloss paint seals the walls just enough. Caulking the tub to the drywall before you paint helps. Green board does make a difference where there is a lot of moisture. When I put a garden tub or any other tub without a surround made onto it, I use green board.

At the very least, vent your fans to the vented soffits and maybe the moisture wil collect on the soffit panels and dry there before it damages your insulation or framing,, or cause your ceiling to sag.


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## woodworkingmenace (May 9, 2006)

Remember, if you dont use a GFCI on a "seperate line", and try to use the same line for your fan, and everything else in the bathroom, DO NOT USE FLORESCENT LIGHTING!  

For some reason, it backfeeds signal into the GFCI and makes them fail...
And yes, I have my bathroom on GFI circuit, and found out about this AFTER I installed a florecent light in the bathroom!!  Sheesh!!

Jesse


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## Bud Cline (May 9, 2006)

Greenboard in wet areas has been problematic for decades.  Effective January 01, 2006 greenboard was outlawed in all shower and shower surround and wet-area applications.  For years the Tile Council of America, The National Tile Contractors Association, and The National Plumbing Code, among others, has recommended against using greenboard in wet areas. 

Deliberatly venting moisture into attics and crawl spaces is also against building codes in most areas.


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## synthetic (May 15, 2006)

woodworkingmenace said:
			
		

> Remember, if you dont use a GFCI on a "seperate line", and try to use the same line for your fan, and everything else in the bathroom, DO NOT USE FLORESCENT LIGHTING!
> 
> For some reason, it backfeeds signal into the GFCI and makes them fail...
> And yes, I have my bathroom on GFI circuit, and found out about this AFTER I installed a florecent light in the bathroom!!  Sheesh!!
> ...



hmm... I might suggest checking your GFCI units or possibly the flourescent light's ballast. I have a flourescent in my kitchen run on the same circuit as 2 GFIC outlets with no problems.



thanks for all the replies... will probably just use the green wall around my shower area then and not whole bathroom. Here it is $5-6 more per board than drywall.


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## woodworkingmenace (May 15, 2006)

Well, its what I have read in many places, regarding florescent lighting and GFI wall sockets.  

I am not happy with it either, because I put up a florescent lighting in line with my GFI...(And believe me, that GFI saved my bacon MANY TIMES when I was doing my bathroom, cutting into wiring with the silly thing ON, and having explosions happen!!  Several times!  And I didnt get shocked ONE TIME!!  I AM A FIRM BELIEVER IN GFI's NOW!!)....

Its that feedback from the lighting aparatus that engages the florecent light that causes turmoil in the GFI circuit, so that it cant trip right.   Wife wants me to put a ceiling fan up there now, so I may have to rip the ceiling up a bit, and put some bracing, so I can put one of those tiny ceiling fans that I have put in almost every bedroom...(really throws some air around for a 25 inch fan), and I want to make sure its braced up good!.  Thus, my GFI will be effective again.

I am actually thinking about putting in all GFCI in all sockets, so that I dont have to go down to the fuse box, every time a circuit trips, just reset it at the silly outlet...but, problem with that is, I have "gang boxes" in the living room, where I have to plug 6 different things in for the television and all the accutraments that go along with it.  (naw, forget about adding more outlets... walls are double brick all four walls, and I have added a few to the base boards but, they dont really look as apealing as a regular socket... Gotta figure something out, about adding to the brick and ripping a trail downwards and sealing it up again... And forget about those "external ones", thats ugly to me)....

Ok, 'nuff of my diatribe on this one... 

NEXT.....

Jesse


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## pqglen (May 18, 2006)

I would use wonderboard or somthing like it in the tub/shower surround and good old dry wall everywhere else

pqglen


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## asbestos (May 19, 2006)

So if green board is banned and heinous and will cause all sorts of horrid things why do they sell it? Why could it be worse then plain old drywall? I like using cement backerboard around the shower, but then I'm spending other people's money.


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## inspectorD (May 19, 2006)

Sheetrock....sheetruck. sheatrock....They all sound the same but for the spelling.
Same goes for the stuff we use in our houses.
Regular old gypsumn board is used in the non- moisture prone areas of a home like your living room ,bedrooms ect.
Greenboard is for those moisture ladden areas like your bathroom.This is  where the steam from a bathroom or a leaking and sweating  toilet create that stuff that starts to grow in those crazy colors.This stuff usually is mold.
The rock board and other types like denshield or any concrete boards made for "wet" shower and bath enclosure areas are the only things you can use that will slow down any problems with tile getting installed poorly or the plastic tub surround that leaks. If this where sheetrock or greenboard they would fail quickly.
Hope that clears up why they still sell greenboard.


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## iiigoiii (May 31, 2006)

my sheetrocker recommended against using greenboard in my bathroom.  he said that unless you have zero ventilation or real moisture problems, to install regular sheetrock.  says it's harder to paint and not worth the extra $$.  says it was intended for use as a tile backer (which of course wouldn't be that great since it's not as durable as cement board or hardibacker).


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## glennjanie (Jun 2, 2006)

Friend if you have a bathroom you do have a severe moisture problem! Inspector D is correct and your sheetrocker is just wrong. If you don't want problems down the road you should use the greenboard.
Glenn


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## Tileman (Jun 4, 2006)

Nonsense, if you have an exhaust fan or window, use regular drywall and prime it and paint it or wallpaper it, it's sealed then, greenboard is a waste of money, always use cementboards in wet areas.


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## inspectorD (Jun 4, 2006)

Your still half right...
You are correct when you say that as long as the bathroom has a window or fan and fresh paint you are OK.

The muddied part is when the folks have a window and don't open it because it is raining or winter. What about the folks that have a working fan and they don't turn it on when they shower, or turn it off right when their done. Then there is the really buggered up fan that always half works then threatens to jump out of the ceiling. The fan should run for 15 minutes afterwards to evacuate all moisture.
I have also seen mold grow under the painted surfaces in bathrooms, the paint comes off in large pieces and the greenboard is fine. Do not put vinyl wallpaper in a bathroom, another common mistake.

The greenboard is just there to help the mold not to grow as fast and cost much more in tear out, like he is doing now.
I get the straight answers from the science guy's with the plaques on the wall.  
And having seen my share of bathrooms in sorry states of health, I still think it is better to just spend the $50.00 and upgrade.

And as you and I said earlier, always install cement board under tile...no sheetrock no mater what color in wet areas.

This is why I recommend greenboard..you dont know their lifestyles and how they change.I'm sure you alway's do your best on all your job's, right?


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## ALPS (Jun 11, 2006)

woodworkingmenace said:
			
		

> water vapors are heaviest near the floor,
> 
> Personally, I would put a vent near the floor, about 12" above it,
> 
> ...




Sorry, Jesse, but that is not true.  Water vapor is less dense than air so it rises above the cooler, drier air.  Need proof?  Go out side and look up.  You'll see clouds (water vapor) in the sky, not on the ground.

I've read that the exhaust fan should be on the ceiling so it draws a draft from under the door, venting the room from floor to ceiling.


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## tooltime (Jun 20, 2006)

All I can say about the greenboard issue is this. The house I am in was built back  1959. The studs are covered in drywall, then in the corners some mesh, and on top of that a nice coat of plaster. The walls total thickness is up to 7/8s. No mold problems. No venting, just a window that is infrequently open. Condensation would form on the ceiling, but its not damaging... just have to clean the ceiling every so often or look at the little brown circles.  I know green board is supposed to be a good thing, but I dont think it equals all the hype.


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## inspectorD (Jun 20, 2006)

Good ol' plaster mesh walls. Nothing like em when you need to remodel a bathroom. Cut up for days. 

The green board is some part hype and some part truth.
The good thing about the green board is it will last longer than regular sheetrock in humid ,moist conditions. My point is that for the cost difference which is not much in a remodel ,it is worth the expense long term.

As for nothing wrong with your good old plaster....the mold you get on your walls and ceilings is mold that is comming from somewhere.Mold does not keep comming around unless something stays wet.
I have remodeled hundreds of bathrooms that were plaster 1' inch walls with tile on them that looked in pristine shape. Solid walls that when hit or probed did not move.
Then the remodel starts and the walls behind the plaster ...are not there! The plaster was holding it all together with no signs of damage to the wall.The mold was terrible and the exterior siding was rotten on the backside.
No studs or 3/4 exterior sheathing....just junk.

Be careful of what you think you have.


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