# Rain leaking in window



## D725A

During storms with heavy winds from the direction that the window faces, water penetrates under the window sill on the right side. (see attached photos)
It would appear that the water penetrates under the bottom sash and goes into the hole on the right (where the vinyl covering ends.) Presumably the plan was for that water to exit the outside bottom weep hole on photo 2 but perhaps after 18 years these are blocked with dirt. (There are other weep holes higher up, which presumably remove water from the higher drainage plain, which probably work ok.)

You can see the 'two-step' design of the drainage plain, which strikes me as a potential problem that traps water at the crack between the two. I thought of plugging up the side gaps wiht caulk but then where would the water go? How do you clean up these weep holes if that's the problem?

Thanks.


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## EZHangDoor

Try cleaning the weep hole with a small wire or pipe cleaner. You can also use a small spray bottle and squirt water in the hole and see is anything runs out. Most likely the problem is moisture coming in from the top of the window. Properly flashing and preparing the opening when installing a window is a must. Here is a link to preparing a window opening.


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## D725A

Thanks EZ, good advice, i'll try that first.


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## oldognewtrick

You will also want to recaulk all areas where the metal trim terminates against the window and the exposed nail heads. DO NOT use silicone caulk. Go to your local siding supply house (not the big box store) and get a caulk specific for siding applications.


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## D725A

Well, back in the fall we followed all the suggestions, made sure all the weep holes were clear, re-caulked, but rain still leaks in when rain is accompanied by heavy winds. Do we now have to remove and re-install the windows? (They're 20 years old, if that's relevant.)


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## nealtw

At least start by removing the sheeting on the outside, you may get a nasty surprise, but that might give you hints of where the water is coming from.


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## asbestos

I work on a lot of houses on the water and so wind driven rain is a common issue. Start above the window,sometimes water runs down the inside until it hits the header of the window look for any place water may get in. Then slowly examine every joint,seam nailhead, and corner around the window. Use a small stiff putty knife to gently look under edges, it's there, it just may be hard to find and small. 

And don't fall off the ladder.


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## joecaption

Looks like a classic case of someone installing the windows and later had someone wrap the wood with coil stock.
It needed to be the other way around.
Now you have an exposed seam where water can get in under the coil stock and rot out the sill at the bottom of the window, exposed nails on the sill.
The coil should have been installed first and all the way up to the stool then the window sits on top of it
If you look at the sides at the bottom where they ran the trim, for some strange reason they bent it back forming a funnel for water to get in, by leaving the bottom of it tight to the sill and then caulking it there's no way for water to drain in the corner.

And your right that is the strangest sill on the bottom of a window I've ever seen. At first glance I thought it might be a replacement window that was installed backwards with a storm window on the outside. It looks like a waterfall made to run the water to the inside instead of the outside.

No modern window I've ever seen is built like that.


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## D725A

Thanks for these great replies. So to do what 'asbestos' suggests, the upper shingles etc would probably have to be removed. and re: Joe caption's comment, the window should be completely re-installed.


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## EZHangDoor

If the window are 20 years old. Replacing them is probably a good thing. Be sure to get a quality Low E glazing for the glass. If you're going through the hassle of changing the window spend the extra for the higher efficient window, it's well worth it.


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## D725A

Thanks, well the house is likely to be sold in a few years and we have two windows that leak like this--only in heavy wind driven rain. I'd hate to pour a few grand into this--a relative's house--when a new owner may end up renovating much of it anyway. I'm hoping a good window guy should be able to do some of things suggested here and make it work.


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## nealtw

What you want is a handyman with a caulking gun. A good window guy will want to poke around and take things apart because he will be worried about mold inside the wall. Can we assume the ralitives are elderly?


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## D725A

Thanks. Yes, elderly. We've had a few handymen caulkers over already without results. One of the posters did recommend taking a few shingles etc out above the window to investigate.....I'll take another look in a week or so and see if perhaps some loose nails etc might be the culprit--window faces north so heavy winds could certainly drive some water through.


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## nealtw

The wood around the window can absorb water for years before it rots enough and opens up enough to allow water a path right thru. You really need some one to remove the flashing on the outside and inspect the wood. As mentioned the leak often is at the top of the window but the rot usually shows up at the bottom and below. This a health issue and not a money issue.


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## D725A

Agree it's not a money issue--as far as getting it repaired correctly. That's why I want a good window guy and not any more 'handymen with a caulk gun' as you said. It should be opened up and thoroughly checked out.


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## D725A

I was just on a phone with a good window guy--who's too busy this season to do this kind of job. He says opening up the window will help figure out the origin of the leak. He says with many windows that are fine for years that suddenly start leaking the leak turns out to be the roof flashing. Water can migrate from one part of the house to the other. If the window is opened up and no stains are seen behind the jam--if I have my notes right--that would mean the leak is from elsewhere. In that case even replacing the window will not solve the problem.


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## nealtw

That is right but you have to start somewhere. With a modern install evan a roof leak the water would be directed out but in your case where ever the water comes from the window area is still getting wet so an re-install would be a good idea.


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## D725A

Update: Had the original window installer in today. we took a hose and sprayed all around, in, above the window etc; all weep holes drained well, condition could not be duplicated. Hosed water on roof above the area and around roof solatube in case flashing wasn't good. Roof does have good drip edge. It's conceivable that a gutter that empties onto the roof could be a culprit but after thorough hosing no visible water in attic. This was all based on a corner of peeling paint under the window sill that seemed to swell during a heavy rainstorm.  Could be a bad paint job that trapped humidity underneath--there may not have been a leak after all. We will be replacing a through the wall ac/heating unit underneath, so when we open that up we should know more. The installer said if this kind of leak was going on for ten years that sheetrock would be much more powdery, brown and you could put your finger through it. This is also next to a stove where cooking goes on. So things may not be what they seemed, but I think we've narrowed down the issues today. Thanks for all the great suggestions.


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## nealtw

Do they run the fan over the stove when they cook? The window is the least insulated part of the house and moisture will condence there.


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## D725A

There is an exhaust fan on the wall to the right of the window--not a range hood. They probably don't use it all the time. There is also peeling paint all over the room, which could be either moisture from roof(?) or a bad paint job. The roofer that was originally hired 10 years ago later turned out not to have the greatest reputation; when I checked the attic I looked up and wondered if there was underlayment there--i was looking for water so I just assumed it was there but when I go back I'll check again. The drip edge and starter strip look ok, but instead of ice and water shield what I felt glued to the deck was a shingle. Things sure get interesting.


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## nealtw

A friend of mine has a house stuck on the side of a mountain. Most of the windows face down the hill and are subject to rain and wind often. He's been chasing leaks in the windows for years in the down stairs suite. Now with new tenents he was complaining because he could here the hood fan running all the time, but the windows stopped leaking. Perhaps you get more condensation when the rain is cooling the window.


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## D725A

We had to remove the old heating unit--so it was a good time to inspect the wood underneath. As you can see from the photo no noticeable wood rot. However the sheetrock is a bit more crumbly on the right where you can see the outline of the old heater, so before we insulate and close it up we'd like to remove a little more sheetrock just to check. The right side is where the moisture was more apparent. Of course the old insulation was fiberglass with paper backing, quite deteriorated. So certainly alot of cold air could have gotten in through this combo AC/heating unit over the years. And if when they last painted they didn't remove all the old water soluble wallpaper glue, then that could wick humidity in from the condensation from any cold that blew in. Add that to the stove humidity that could be an issue.

One thing I'll have them look at:  on the second photo with the arrows, the green arrow shows where the under-window flashing overlapped nicely, then towards the right it sort of disappears--maybe not put on evenly, so perhaps if it wasn't completely wrapped underneath the window, that could allow moisture entry.

I intend to insulate with either roxul or fiberglass. To make cutting easy I will buy unfaced insulation; given the rest of the house likely has 56 year old paper-faced deteriorated insulation, do I really need to worry about a vapor barrier? I don't like to put plastic over the unfaced sheetrock on the interior given NY's mixed climate. Exterior has 3/4 plywood sheathing, felt paper, 1/4" amoco amocor rigid insulation from the 80s, then shingles.

PS Yes I do intend to caulk any gaps in the sheathing.....


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## nealtw

Now would be a good time to hit the outside with water and see if you can find bigger problems. The vapour barrier should be on the inside to protect the wall from interior moist air and gaps in the rough sheeting on the outside allows a route for moisture to get out of the wall but if the foam on the outside is tightly sealed it is also a vapour barrier and now that is a different discussion. If the window does leak, where is the water to go. It can't get outside and you don't want it staying in the wall or getting to the drywall.


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## D725A

Thanks Neal. Will have to wait until shingles are installed to use the hose again. Last week we hosed for twenty minutes and no leakage. now we have a bird's eye view so it will be a better test. I'm leaning towards the other explanations: condensation, cold air infiltration, cooking moisture and old wallpaper glue but we'll see.


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## nealtw

I wouldn,t count cold air infiltration for much. Unless there was an open hole to the inside there would be very little air movement. Air looses moisture as it cools so cold air wouldn,t likely deposit any water as it warm up.


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## joecaption

If you remove the trim around that window, most often you will find there's no insulation behind it, often you can see cracks all the way around the outside trim where lights coming in.


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## GulfAust

Cleaning or repairing your window is, of course, a great idea and that you could probably make it work, too. However, considering the age of your window, it may be wise to look into window replacement. You might save money now but eventually, you will have to have it replaced. Windows, just like everything else, has an "expiration". But if you are going to have it reinstalled, it might be a good idea to have a specialist take a look at it first so you do not waste money on something you shouldn't be spending on.


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## D725A

Just to resolve this thread, I thank all for the great advice which will serve me and others faced with troubleshooting window problems. We extensively hosed the window on the outside with no problems. Checked the attic found no water leakage. Peeling paint turned out to be a bad paint job five years ago where the painter didn't remove all the wallpaper glue. In setting up a protocol to troubleshoot these things, I have learned how important it is to listen carefully to the original complaint. Someone might say, 'there's water getting in the window.' They didn't see water, they felt some dampness of plaster and assumed outside rainwater was entering. plaster with peeling paint near a window can allow humidity to enter during storms and feel a little wet but not be harboring actual water. Especially if a through the wall AC/heating unit is not air sealed and lets in cold air and allows some condensation. We've now had the walls scraped, oil-primed and painted with no sign of moisture. The forty year old AC/Heat unit has been removed, wall sealed and radiator soon to be installed. Thanks all.


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## nealtw

Most times we do find bigger problems and to often someone just fixes the surface and leaves the bigger problems. It;s to bad you went to all that work, but on the upside there is no doubt about the fix.


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