# Buried angle stop



## CallMeVilla (Aug 25, 2016)

Working a leak damaged house.  The upstairs toilet leaked down to the office ceiling on the first floor.  Yes, killed the drywall and left mold.

So, the toilet came out and a new wax ring solved the obvious leakage ....

Obvious?

Seems the angle stop (original construction) was dripping too.  Problem was it had been installed behind the toilet in a small area and was RECESSED into a plastic box, making it nearly impossible to remove/replace.

The heritage of the chump who came up with this idea got slandered loudly ...  and he did it in the other two bathrooms too.

Ever seen this kind of mess?


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## nealtw (Aug 25, 2016)

That's been around since the 70s, they even have a new and improved modal, you will love this one.
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/pull-stop-outlet-box.html


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 25, 2016)

OMG that new 'thang' is a just monster hiding in the wall waiting to bite us 

Glad I don't do a lot of plumbing. None of the recessed boxes allow for valve replacement which is just plain silly. I only use 1/4 turn ball valve stops now for sinks and toilets and so far (maybe 15 years) I haven't had one go bad. Still replacing washer valves though, seems folks won't spend the amount needed to upgrade there.

_Pay more once to do it best, and down the road it will cost less._

Phil


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## joecaption (Aug 26, 2016)

Not fun, and no way would I ever plumb one like that, but that valve can be replaced.
Sure looks like a compression fitting.
May need to use a basin wrench to get the supply line off.


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## frodo (Aug 26, 2016)

CallMeVilla said:


> Working a leak damaged house.  The upstairs toilet leaked down to the office ceiling on the first floor.  Yes, killed the drywall and left mold.
> 
> So, the toilet came out and a new wax ring solved the obvious leakage ....
> 
> ...



what makes me giggle,  they went thru all the trouble to install that ice maker box,  but did not put the trim piece on to finish it out

we have been installing that same box as an ice maker box for years.
it is a compression type valve.  difficult ?  not for a high stepper 


ridgid  angle valve wrench


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## slownsteady (Aug 26, 2016)

So that's a high stepper.....


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 27, 2016)

From the pic you can't see it all, but it does show wrench flats so it is either thread-on or compression. Still no fun to change out. I've seen stops buried in sheetrock, notchet into framing, and poured into concrete because many non-plumbers don't understand that they do need to be serviced/replaced occasionally. I only do plumbing incidental to my work anymore, just got tired of the headaches and always not having a needed part on the truck. 

Phil


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## frodo (Aug 27, 2016)

Mastercarpenty said:


> From the pic you can't see it all, but it does show wrench flats so it is either thread-on or compression. Still no fun to change out. I've seen stops buried in sheetrock, notchet into framing, and poured into concrete because many non-plumbers don't understand that they do need to be serviced/replaced occasionally. I only do plumbing incidental to my work anymore, just got tired of the headaches and always not having a needed part on the truck.
> 
> Phil


















you can tell by the nut it is compression,  i guess if you are areound them every day, you know it when you see it

top picture is threaded
bottom is compression...

you ca clearly tell the difference


all you do, turn off water.   with 2 wrenchs   hold valve,  unscrew nut.  remove valve.  replace


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## frodo (Aug 27, 2016)

with the trim cover,  yours is missing


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 27, 2016)

I worked with a Master Plumber who always used sweat-on stops, then cut the pipe stub so short nothing else would fit. Hated that but I didn't have to fix them. Every now and then I come across Type "L" hard copper and can't use compression stops. Hate that too. TBH I pretty much hate doing plumbing except in new construction. That's why I'm a carpenter and not a plumber 

Phil


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## frodo (Aug 27, 2016)

type L and M and K are the same  OD    compression stops work on all of them 
the pipe difference is the ID

plumbing is not for every one,  it takes patience mixed in with no patience   straight forward bullheadedness and ability to be gentle at the same time

you have to be stupid enough to be smart  lol....and be able to see in 3D


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 28, 2016)

I may have the type wrong but there is a rigid hard copper pipe which is darn near impossible to use a compression stop on without it leaking no matter how much (or little) you tighten it. And yes the pipe was clean, deburred, totally round with nothing used on the joint. I've broken those fittings trying to slowly tighten them till the leak stopped. You can anneal it with a torch, but then you risk losing a sweat fitting in the wall you couldn't see and there's not much point in using compression fittings if you have to use the torch-just sweat it on (or sweat a threaded adapter) and your done.

There's a ton of reasons I hate plumbing. And I think in 4D as well as 3D. If it were standardized to one system it wouldn't be bad, but with at least 6 types of supply piping and at least 4 types of drain piping you cannot possibly have what need on hand every time when you show up to do a repair unless your truck does only plumbing. And then you're still usually going to need another trip to the plumbing supply house. 

It's getting better now that PVC is almost universal for drains and PEX is nearly there for supply. But that doesn't help when you have an old house where ten idiots have been there before you and cobbled repairs together with whatever they had on hand. And half of those idiots were in the plumbing business, just trying to avoid another trip for parts. And there's the fun of crawling in mud and water under a house all the time (more fun in the winter). Or finding somebody screwed up the electrical ground and getting the snot knocked out of you when you touched the pipe laying well-grounded and wet under there. And really, who enjoys playing around with things filled with human waste? I can't count how many times I've fixed failed joists and beams because the plumber removed material they shouldn't have, often when it wasn't necessary but that was the easy way so they did it without a care. 

Yeah, I'll stick to carpentry etc as much as I can even though I can do plumbing to code, even the weird stuff like wet vents. It's water that most often damages houses, and as often as not it is failed plumbing that put the water there. If it's more than incidental plumbing I'll call a plumber, and while he's fighting all the problems I'll be clean, dry, and cruising through the rest.  Just my not-so-humble approach to life in the home repair business, and see ya on the next one!

Phil


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## frodo (Aug 28, 2016)

Mastercarpenty said:


> I may have the type wrong but there is a rigid hard copper pipe which is darn near impossible to use a compression stop on without it leaking no matter how much (or little) you tighten it. And yes the pipe was clean, deburred, totally round with nothing used on the joint. I've broken those fittings trying to slowly tighten them till the leak stopped. You can anneal it with a torch, but then you risk losing a sweat fitting in the wall you couldn't see and there's not much point in using compression fittings if you have to use the torch-just sweat it on (or sweat a threaded adapter) and your done.
> 
> There's a ton of reasons I hate plumbing. And I think in 4D as well as 3D. If it were standardized to one system it wouldn't be bad, but with at least 6 types of supply piping and at least 4 types of drain piping you cannot possibly have what need on hand every time when you show up to do a repair unless your truck does only plumbing. And then you're still usually going to need another trip to the plumbing supply house.
> 
> ...



i like it because it is challenging.

i went to a house that a welder owned,  yep you guessed it

weld pipe.  i wrapped a chain around the garbage and pulled it out from under the house.

looked like a big spider lol


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## Mastercarpenty (Aug 29, 2016)

I've got enough challenges doing the rest. Ever had to raise an entire sagged wall of a balloon-framed house to replace a rotted sill when you're parallel to the joists so there's nothing to lift against? Ever pulled out load bearing walls and put hidden support back to achieve a clean single ceiling in both rooms? Balanced the load on a breaker panel? Fixed roof leaks which 5 professional roofers couldn't even find? Reduced the width of a set of built-up kitchen cabinets by 2" to accommodate a wider entry door without cutting down the cabinet doors or drawers? Made matching cabinet doors for a 70's kitchen with complex routering involved and no templates to go by? Repaired swelled particleboard cabinet doors to where the repair was invisible and durable? Altered new crown molding to blend in with a fairly different old existing pattern to get a house sold on schedule? Repaired ornate plaster ceiling light medallions without using a mold, just handwork?  I could go on for hours. 

Needless to say I've got all the challenges I want as I do the things which everyone else says can't be done or will cost 5 tines what I do, with my results being as good as or better than theirs. My next fun is to replicate 8 feet of a 9" wide exterior crown from  75 years ago starting with a 2X10, and no shaper, joimter, router, or mill to do it with. Just a portable table saw and belt sander and one hour's time. It's not all that hard to do really, just tedious and persnicitty because one tiny mistake can ruin the whole piece. Cost to go the usual custom-milled route? $450 for just the molding. I'll do it for half of that installed and make out like a bandit. And it will blend in with the old so well that nobody will ever notice it. Now there's my kind of challenge!

Phil


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## slownsteady (Aug 29, 2016)

Maybe just a tad off topic here, guys. I suppose someone could start a thread called "My Résume".


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## frodo (Aug 29, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Maybe just a tad off topic here, guys. I suppose someone could start a thread called "My Résume".




ok boss,   putting back on track now


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## bud16415 (Aug 29, 2016)

Hey that&#8217;s one of my locomotives, put it down.


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## CallMeVilla (Sep 1, 2016)

Well guys .... if you think that was an example of poor craftsmanship, check out what they did in the downstairs bathroom  ....  Yes Waaaaaay.  Owner asked if we could change out the last one in this 3-bath house.  Considered putting in for vacation ....


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