# Empty Hat Posts



## Eddie_T (Dec 31, 2021)

Is it just me?  Are the repair talk posts gaining more casual or empty hat postings. It seems that some commentary is just to be heard rather than being helpful to the OP.


----------



## Flyover (Dec 31, 2021)

At the very least, I've noticed a drop in activity across the actual DIY/home repair topics, so even if the rate of "empty hat" postings has stayed the same in absolute terms it stands out more in relative terms.

Much as I hate to say it, the "General" discussion section is the clear culprit. It's probably there to keep regulars from forgetting about the site during those long stretches where we aren't answering or asking actual home repair questions. The "What did you do today?" thread does its job by encouraging people to talk about what they did that day, but unfortunately, even when anecdotes themselves are confined to that specific question, and even when they are further confined to anecdotes related to home repair, the general nature of the discussion section invites offshoot commentary that frequently devolves into politics. Several members, for example, discuss their personal health issues, and this spirals off into discussion about the media, healthcare professionals, our health system, etc. "What's your temp?" could be interpreted as an invitation to debate global warming.

So one solution might be to excise that section, unfortunately. But that isn't necessarily the best solution, just the first one I thought of that seemed to make sense.

Since my hiatus I've personally been trying to post less of the "empty hat" stuff and stick to actual home repair topics. (And if I've got nothing to say there then why not do something else with my time?) Maybe if we all tried harder to do that...


----------



## havasu (Dec 31, 2021)

I blame most of this on the current administration and all the supply shortages. I use to love to go into the garage and make some sawdust, but with lumber prices, who wants to spend $200 to make a $30 coat rack? I've been around forums for the last 15 years, and watch the numbers rise and fall based on elections, pandemics, lack of money, and all the doomsday crap we hear and see on TV. We will get through this, and normalcy will return. I guarantee it.


----------



## bud16415 (Dec 31, 2021)

It is also seasonal. In the winter home heating and insulation questions expand as people start thinking about fixing those systems, or heating their garage etc.



In general winter months slow down and between thanksgiving and new years people are doing other things non DIY related.



I don’t think getting rid of sections and threads is the answer as much as us mod/admin keeping an eye on the talk for fun subjects. I think we do a fairly good job  at that and better yet the member self-policing those areas is even better.



Some members have a tendency to supply too much information or information way over the heads of the OP asking the question. I’m fairly well versed in a lot of questions that pop up but also aware there are others even better here to answer. Quite often I will hold off with my answer giving the pro a chance to answer. There are no points given for answering first or repeating the answer someone else just gave. If I see it is a new poster I will often supply a little answer and welcome them to the forum and tell them to check back later as some of our pros will answer when they can. I also will instead of answering them fully notice they left out information or maybe a photo the pro on that topic would want to have, so I suggest they do that.



Sometimes when a thread has run its course a little non related chat is not a bad thing as it is a way of welcoming the new member into staying longer than just the one question they had.

There are some long term members that always ask questions and some that always answer questions and even a few in the middle. I like that there is a mix like that. Nothing wrong with forming internet friendships and during the slow times having a few threads to just BS in and have some fun. It is kind of like work life everyone does their job but also a little time to get to know each other while working.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Dec 31, 2021)

What I've seen over the years is peaks and valleys on questions pertaining to specific questions. Certain time of the year effects how folks get involved in house repair. Holiday time was always slow in the roofing industry because people don't like roofers tearing up Xmas decorations. Summer vacation time takes folks away a lot. So, what I see is cyclical questions and responses.


----------



## Flyover (Dec 31, 2021)

Good answers mods, that stuff makes sense.

Personally I think the "for fun" zone could be policed a little tighter, with stiffer consequences than just warnings.

I'm a huge free speech advocate and I'm glad there are places where communists, Nazis, cynics, militant atheists, religious evangelists, and anyone else, including centrists, "normies", and people who reject whatever label you might use to describe them can all get together and talk about anything they want without the threat of cancellation or worse, and the only real rule is to act like a gentleman. I know a few places online that are exactly that. But not every website is improved by being that kind of place and it isn't immediately obvious (at least not to me) why this one would be. (Maybe most of the most active members here don't have anywhere else to go? I dunno.)

Of course I'm not a mod and that's just my two cents, provided for your consideration or entertainment. Mainly I just find "forum management" conversations fascinating.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Dec 31, 2021)

Flyover, so noted.


----------



## havasu (Dec 31, 2021)

I belong to a boating forum. During the summer, its filled with great looking boats, great looking women, and really interesting topics. Once the weather turns cold, its like a bunch of women, griping about how much it costs to get pedicures, covid issues, tax issues, what to get the little woman for Christmas,  etc. It makes us all pray for warmer weather.


----------



## Guzzle (Dec 31, 2021)

Empty hat = all hat & no cattle?


----------



## Hamberg (Jan 1, 2022)

havasu said:


> *….great looking women…*



Are you going to share the link !!


----------



## Eddie_T (Jan 1, 2022)

Just a thought ·  ·  ·   how could we complain about free speech when we are posting on a website that belongs to others?


----------



## havasu (Jan 1, 2022)

I've known the owner of these web sites for 15+ years. He is very laid back and allows his forums lots of latitude, allowing the mods to do what they feel is best, but you are correct, First Amendment rights don't apply here.


----------



## Guzzle (Jan 1, 2022)

Is there any downside to being


havasu said:


> the owner of . . .web sites


?


----------



## oldognewtrick (Jan 1, 2022)

Is there a downside side to any occupation, you betcha.


----------



## havasu (Jan 1, 2022)

Don't exactly understand your question, but I am a volunteer here, never made a penny on any of the forums, just like all the other mods. We do it for the love of the forums.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Jan 1, 2022)

havasu said:


> Don't exactly understand your question, but I am a volunteer here, never made a penny on any of the forums, just like all the other mods. We do it for the love of the forums.


Tell the truth, it's the stale donuts, lousy coffee and free use of the company Lear Jet that keeps us here...


----------



## havasu (Jan 1, 2022)

I couldn't afford to fill up the jet after my dinner in Dubai, so I used my garden hose to fill up the tanks. Do you think Keith will notice?


----------



## beachboui (Jan 1, 2022)

Eddie_T said:


> Is it just me?  Are the repair talk posts gaining more casual or empty hat postings. It seems that some commentary is just to be heard rather than being helpful to the OP.



I see nothing wrong with a little "empty hat" chatter. It keeps a thread alive, for one thing. And, maybe someone is interested in the topic, but doesn't have anything helpful to contribute, so they just comment. Nothing wrong with that, in my view. At least you know someone is reading your post.

Someone may come to this group to fill a void in their life, or just to feel connected to the world, if only in a virtual sense. I would not judge that person.

As long as the empty hat comments are civil discourse and not troll posts trying to start an argument or rile someone up, I welcome empty hat comments. I see nothing wrong with it.

If you feel like empty hat comments are a burden to you, then, good for you for having the luxury of feeling that way. Your profile picture depicts the cross of Christ. Would he not be more charitable in giving someone a place to be heard or commune with others?


----------



## Eddie_T (Jan 1, 2022)

beachboui said:


> If you feel like empty hat comments are a burden to you, then, good for you for having the luxury of feeling that way. Your profile picture depicts the cross of Christ. Would he not be more charitable in giving someone a place to be heard or commune with others?


Don't try to add words to my post. I was just asking others if it was a trend or just my observation. I am guilty of empty hat commentary but try not to ambush the OP.


----------



## beachboui (Jan 1, 2022)

My apologies if I put too much oomph into that post. Perhaps there was a little "holiday blues" in there. I raise my cup of warm apple cider to your measured reply.


----------



## Eddie_T (Jan 1, 2022)

Hey, I took no offence, sometimes written words seem offensive when orally delivery would not be. Plus this thread is fair game for attacks.

I'll give an example with respect to me. I almost posted my grounded conductor comment on @zannej's wiring thread but since it was intended to attract comment I offered it as a stand alone topic. Grounding can be misunderstood so is an important topic. By not hijacking the other thread it can have a life of its own, or not.


----------



## Jeff Handy (Jan 2, 2022)

What is the meaning and word origin of “empty hat” postings?
Is this online slang?
Please fill in the blanks, thank you.
Not all of us are social media nuts who absorb this stuff easily.


----------



## ekrig (Jan 2, 2022)

Jeff Handy said:


> What is the meaning and word origin of “empty hat” postings?


Thank you for asking the question Jeff, as I'm wondering the same...

To be honest when I first opened this thread I thought this was going to be about whether or not to put caps on posts (e.g., on a fence). Silly me...


----------



## Flyover (Jan 2, 2022)

I never heard the term either but figured from context clues it must mean something like "discussion that is just causal/for fun, not related to the dedicated topic". Like what you'd get around the water cooler at work.


----------



## Guzzle (Jan 2, 2022)

"Small talk."


----------



## Jeff Handy (Jan 3, 2022)

Yes, I also assumed it meant a fluff post or non serious post. 
But I have never heard that slang term, and it has no hits on Google. 
Maybe it is too new, like a recent thing from TikTok or whatever?


----------



## Eddie_T (Jan 3, 2022)

I may have coined it, it just seemed like a natural extension of "empty suit".


----------



## Krich (Jun 1, 2022)

Don't know what's worse... empty hat posting or empty pants posting.

Both are irritating


----------



## Sparky617 (Jun 1, 2022)

I've found that forums like this are being replaced by Facebook groups.  A mountain biking forum I belong to used to get many posts a day.  Now it can go weeks without new posts.  I stopped checking in a couple of years ago.   On the subject of FB groups I find really large ones tend to devolve into urination contests and some people feel free to insult and trash others.  I belong to a small group that is pretty collegial and I've met a few of the members IRL.  It was spun off, by invitation only, from a much larger (10,000+) group that used to be fun but increasingly became nasty.  A cycling group I belong to with thousands of members gets the occasional thread that turns nasty.  Keeping it clean required moderators to do s---.


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 1, 2022)

Krich said:


> Don't know what's worse... empty hat posting or empty pants posting...


Or full pants pockets postings where they come in here and just suggest dropping a few thousand dollars on having professionals do the job...


----------



## Hamberg (Jun 1, 2022)

Yea, I started a FB Yard Sale group a few years ago - 16.7k members - it's a nightmare trying to keep the spammers out, members under control and rules adhered to!!

Routinely 100+ member requests, 93 of which are spammers, that need to get approved weekly! 

Just seems like a Forum platform, like this, is much easier to maintain


----------



## Hamberg (Jun 1, 2022)

PSA: Also a good reason we need to become Supporting Members. 

Admins aren't making anything to keep this Forum up and running - and like I said above, its a PITA!


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 1, 2022)

Krich said:


> Well, don't tell that Flyover about these people being mean to one another... he's under the illusion that mankind is wonderful and if you say they aren't he'll recommend your meds be adjusted
> 
> Yeah, I've never had a spacebook account or any social media account for that matter.


Everyone is born good and normal... but in just a couple years or more, some are brainwashed into, forced into, succumb to evil addictions... that eventually turn them into as much as conscienceless monsters like the Uvalde school mass murderer... I figure him for drug addiction, religion addiction, and homosexuality addiction... from the info I've seen on him so far... same thinking also explains Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, EvilJFK, EvilDiem, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, Putin, etc...
Or people grow up under the control of people with evil addictions... which can also produce a bad result...

Facebook used to ban me over and over for telling the truth, but since Trump sued them, they've stopped banning me now... they sometimes still block the truth, but don't ban me... maybe it's because I wrote that everyone should enjoy being banned because once the lawsuit is won, Facebook will be paying $10Million to each person banned... for civil rights violation! 
(Reminds me last week I got an unexpected nice additional lawsuit settlement check from a different lawsuit in the mail. Letter from lawyers with it said something like we want to close this out and collect our final 30%, many people eligible didn't return their mailed out claim forms by deadline, so we're sending the rest to you. Please cash this check quickly so we can finalize it all.)

Twitter had me "Permanently Suspended" for years for telling the truth there... I appealed last week asking if Elon Musk could fix it... I was immediately unpermanently suspended!

Guess it's not what you know, but WHO you know!


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 1, 2022)

Hamberg said:


> Yea, I started a FB Yard Sale group a few years ago - 16.7k members - it's a nightmare trying to keep the spammers out, members under control and rules adhered to!!


Yes, you need some trusted monitors to help out... can't be on there 24/7/365 yourself...


----------



## bud16415 (Jun 1, 2022)

*Guys*
*


This is a DIY home improvement forum first and foremost and the chit chat forum was added as a place for friends made here to talk about other stuff in general. It is not the wild west of forums where anything goes. This is my thoughts and mine only on this forum and as a mod/admin when we are getting complaints from members about other members the topic are drifting away from friends talking to friends and we will be deleting posts as a first action.



Use this forum for the purpose intended or find another forum to talk about items others will not find appropriate.
*
*You all are adults and this forum is what you make it.    *


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 2, 2022)

bud16415 said:


> *You all are adults and this forum is what you make it. *


FREE SPEECH/TRUTH is what keeps the USA the 'USA' !!!


----------



## bud16415 (Jun 2, 2022)

BuzzLOL said:


> FREE SPEECH/TRUTH is what keeps the USA the 'USA' !!!


I couldn’t agree more but where we have a problem is with what our “Truth” is. It would seem truth can only be one thing and we would all agree to what is truth. But sadly that is not a truth in the assumption of truth.



This is where freedom of speech and honest debate play a part and two or more people should have an honest discussion and try on each others arguments about any truth and sometimes their minds are changed and sometime not. It is to be a civil discourse and in the end if no ones mind is changed we should at least have insight into the others views.



That’s the way it used to work, that is not how it works anymore.



Something as simple as should you pigtail a string of outlets or wire them chained using the provided screw will give pro and con truths as to why we should do it ether way. When concepts deal in religion and politics and any other strongly debated topic and people do not try and understand other thought process it can only mean one thing in a forum like this whose main goal is not these topics. It builds conflict between members and causes strain on the main function of the forum.



That’s the reason I believe, as a mod harmony must be maintained.

There are 100s of places that their main goal is these other topics and for people that want to go there and talk about those things I’m fully in favor of. This forum has open areas that allow for off topic talk. That doesn’t mean anything goes there.


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 2, 2022)

bud16415 said:


> That’s the reason I believe, as a mod harmony must be maintained.


Sometimes it's necessary to rock the boat... or even sink the boat... 
i.e. Revolutionary War... Civil War... brought desirable outcomes... 
WWII followed WWI by only 20 years... those of us who understand the true causes of recent wars have staved off WWIII for 78 years so far... that has also created home safety and kept our houses standing...


----------



## Flyover (Jun 2, 2022)

There's a legal distinction between speech and libel, and for good reason.

I like that many forums, including this one, have "general" boards where people can talk about "empty hat" topics. In those topics people disagree, even vehemently and passionately, about various things, and that's fine. Rock the boat, by all means. In those cases it's best to state your positions as precisely and clearly as possible, and provide evidence (or at the very least, reasoning) in proportion to the scope of your claims. All that is speech, anyway.

Libel is when you make false, damaging or potentially damaging claims about someone else. Libel is not tolerated under our laws because it is not speech. It doesn't seem controversial to me that its analog shouldn't be tolerated in a forum either, especially since a private forum, unlike a country, is designed to be a pleasant place to talk and exchange ideas. Moderators don't want to have to deal with good contributors leaving because this place becomes a dumpster fire, and start attracting the types of people who like pouring gas on dumpster fires.


----------



## havasu (Jun 2, 2022)

What i don't understand is people like to antagonize others in here, but when the tables turn, and someone says something back, the report button alerts all the mods and admins that there is a problem. Slander, spit, yell, but don't bother us.


----------



## Krich (Jun 3, 2022)

> harmony must be maintained



Good luck with that!  There's always one side demanding the other side must change their view point in order the stay in harmony.

There will be no peace until Jesus Christ arrives on Club Earth and assumes management of this world.  Those that choose to not believe are welcome to their beliefs but will be shocked at their destination.  (This will be proven once the future arrives, so stay tuned)

Until then, there will always be wars, famine, death, rape, poverty, etc, etc


----------



## Krich (Jun 3, 2022)

> Libel is not tolerated under our laws because it is not speech



That's hilarious 


Only the lefties are allowed to win legal challenges to those committing liibel against them and even then it's rare for a court to agree.

Largely there is a two tiered legal system in this country and those on the left are protected from being prosecuted for their corruption.


----------



## bud16415 (Jun 3, 2022)

Krich said:


> Good luck with that!  There's always one side demanding the other side must change their view point in order the stay in harmony.
> 
> There will be no peace until Jesus Christ arrives on Club Earth and assumes management of this world.  Those that choose to not believe are welcome to their beliefs but will be shocked at their destination.  (This will be proven once the future arrives, so stay tuned)
> 
> Until then, there will always be wars, famine, death, rape, poverty, etc, etc


Not disagreeing and not saying there will be an attempt at harmony in the world. Just saying we should make it our intent at houserepairtalk.com to move in the direction of harmony.



But I think you knew that is what I was saying and took the opportunity to extrapolate on the concept of harmony away from where I was at.

As mentioned above when any member on any side of the topic finds it necessary to tell the mods there are problem in a thread, any thread then harmony has been disrupted and we are going to take a look and do something in the direction of restoring harmony. A little or a lot.


----------



## Flyover (Jun 3, 2022)

It's hilarious how this is the only place I get called left-wing (by, I think, four different people now). Everywhere else people assume I'm far-right. Even a few people in real life think I'm far right because I own guns and am against abortion and am not against capitalism, don't think we should defund the police, etc. I guess at least when people call me right-wing it's based on knowing a little about me, unlike when people call me left-wing which is always just because I don't agree with whatever insanity they're sputtering and never for any particularly left-wing thing I've said. 

It doesn't matter how often I explain that I'm politically independent and not affiliated with any group--it doesn't matter, which is why I no longer bother explaining. But it's still hilarious watching people make these wild assumptions that they're so certain about, and how their certainty seems positively correlated with how far off the mark they are! 

I be like


----------



## Sparky617 (Jun 3, 2022)

I find posts here by clicking on the what's new link.  That is the only reason I see the "general chit-chat" posts and for the most part I could do without them.


----------



## Eddie_T (Jun 3, 2022)

Methinks it's not so much the opposing viewpoints that create the problem it's that a few people tend to present their viewpoint with an obvious air of superiority.


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 3, 2022)

Flyover said:


> Libel is when you make false, damaging or potentially damaging claims about someone else.


I never libel, only speak the truth, so don't have to worry about that... if the truth offends someone, then that's their problem... maybe they need to fix something... if they are doing evil, maybe they need to keep their evil hidden... 
Online forums open to the public are becoming viewed as the new 'public forum' just like Shopping Malls were by SCOTUS a few years ago so Free Speech Laws are being applied and Trump is using that to sue with when only one side of anything is allowed...


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 3, 2022)

Krich said:


> There will be no peace until Jesus Christ arrives on Club Earth and assumes management of this world.


No Jesus ever existed, just an evil gospels storybook character eventually hung for his crimes in the story... and he won't be back except maybe in psychotic minds... some of which have already claimed he has been back... such as Mormons claiming evil Jesus stomped through the USA in the 1800s... Jehovahs Witnesses claimed in 1875 that the world would end in 100 years, 1975... that was embarrassing and shortsighted for them... and there are many more... 
As I mentioned above, religions fuel all the wars... WWII in Europe was basically extremist Catholic Religious Terrorist Hitler versus everyone else... in Asia it was extremist Shinto Religious Terrorists Japan versus everyone else... IF Hitler had won WWII, then that snake would have turned on his ally Japan just like earlier he turned on his ally Russia after dividing up their common conquest of Poland...


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 3, 2022)

bud16415 said:


> we should make it our intent at houserepairtalk.com to move in the direction of harmony.


Getting rid of addictions/mental illnesses increases harmony... there are fewer wars in the world since the USA was formed... USA was first country to ever outlaw religious terrorism mass murdering... and to promote Free Speech even if many people don't like it... call it blasphemy/heresy... too bad... Free Speech is us... 
Before the USA was formed, there were "30 YEARS WARS" and even "100 YEARS WARS"... and theocracies like Israel have been at war for past 10,000 years and still are... 
And, unfortunately, the Democrats beloved ADDICTIONS-FUELED CRIME WAVE is now up to 75 MURDERS DAILY plus MILLIONS of other DAILY CRIMES !!!


----------



## BuzzLOL (Jun 3, 2022)

Flyover said:


> It's hilarious how this is the only place I get called left-wing (by, I think, four different people now). Everywhere else people assume I'm far-right.
> 
> It doesn't matter how often I explain that I'm politically independent


Yeah, most Americans don't fit fully into either party... the parties just divide up every issue and try to collect donations from people on one side or the other... 
I try to simply get rid of issues we don't need to have... but that threatens party finances...


----------

