# Odd question about painting house exterior



## zannej (Jun 25, 2016)

Ok, this question was sparked when I read a question on Yahooanswers or something where someone was asking about an odd situation & it got me wondering about the rules for house painters and what sort of info they need to have before they can paint the exterior of someone's home.

The general situation was that Family A lived in a yellow house in a community with a homeowner's association. The house was yellow when they purchased it and they liked it. Family B moved in years later and didn't like the yellow color and constantly badgered Family A to paint it a different color. They went as far as to complain to the HOA and to file several requests to force them to repaint to a different color. All requests were rejected as the color was approved by the HOA.

Family A went on vacation for a few weeks and when they returned, their house was painted an ugly gray color. They found out that the spiteful neighbors had hired a painting company to change the color and had pretended to be the owners of the home when the painters came. 

The painting company claimed that bc they acted in good faith, they were blameless. Cops said bc the painting company thought they had homeowner's authority that it wasn't trespassing & they couldn't prove the neighbors had trespassed. 

I know that probably the only option Family A had was to take Family B to small claims court to sue for repainting costs, but it did make me wonder about the rules.

How much onus is on the contractors to make sure that they actually have the legitimate permission to paint the house?

Should they legally have to re-paint it to the color the real owners wanted and bill the family who defrauded them?

What do you guys think?

I know this is a weird thing, but I can't help but wonder about things like this.


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## oldognewtrick (Jun 25, 2016)

Painting contractor should be held blameless.

Neighbor who authorized the work should be guilty of fraud and pay restitution. Just my :2cents:


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## Snoonyb (Jun 25, 2016)

Both A and B are subordinate to the CC&R's of the HOA and the matter must be addressed by the HOA board.


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## KULTULZ (Jun 26, 2016)

...unbelievable... 

No cause for trespass? What would it take, burning the house down?

The painting contractor has no liability (IMO) as it was defrauded. The people who perpetrated this should be held for criminal trespass and destruction of property.

I dwell within an HOA and have a neighbor exactly like this.


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## beachguy005 (Jun 26, 2016)

Once it's confirmed that the neighbor hired the painters, I would have the neighbor charged with vandalism.  If the HOA knew, or gave him permission to paint I would go after them also.
I would suspect that a neighbor that would do something like that isn't going to be bothered with getting any type of approval from a HOA.


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 26, 2016)

Offending neighbor guilty of fraud, misrepresentation, and willful destruction of property (old paint color).  A properly and harshly worded letter from a lawyer to them from homeowners should start the process.  They get 10 business days to respond or a civil complaint is initiated, including attorney's fees and court costs.  Slam dunk.  HOA, if they were not a party is blameless and so is the painting contractor.  Both of those parties will be witnesses to the fraud, misrepresentation and willful destruction.  The cancelled check or credit card info will prove who paid, i.e., bad neighbors.  Contractor can provide phone records and face-to-face ID of the neighbors.  HOA has nothing to prove or disprove as long as it did not authorize the new color.

Original owner gets another nice paint job plus attorney's fees  ....  unless they want to include fines for mental and emotional distress


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## zannej (Jun 26, 2016)

I forgot to mention that Family A said that when they contacted the police, the police said it wasn't vandalism because it was a normal paint color and they didn't put graffiti or something obscene on. HOA told them it was a civil matter and for them to take it up themselves.

I do agree that it was fraud. Family B has been refusing to answer their door and haven't spoken to Family A since & they can't get them to come outside to have the painting contractor confirm it was them. I think they were paid in cash so there was no paper trail and they claimed to be the owners.

But yeah, I think Callmevilla's solution is a good one.

It is just really surprising to me that someone could be *that* upset about someone else's house color that they would go through that trouble. Although, I think part of it was spite. But still, it is not cheap to get that done.


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## Snoonyb (Jun 26, 2016)

zannej said:


> I forgot to mention that Family A said that when they contacted the police, the police said it wasn't vandalism because it was a normal paint color and they didn't put graffiti or something obscene on. HOA told them it was a civil matter and for them to take it up themselves.
> 
> I do agree that it was fraud. Family B has been refusing to answer their door and haven't spoken to Family A since & they can't get them to come outside to have the painting contractor confirm it was them. I think they were paid in cash so there was no paper trail and they claimed to be the owners.
> 
> ...



All repairs are "required" to be approved by the HOA board "prior" to the repairs being started.

Unlike what has been said, the HOA board is the governing body and is responsible for insuring that all members adhere to the CC&R's.


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## zannej (Jun 28, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> All repairs are "required" to be approved by the HOA board "prior" to the repairs being started.
> 
> Unlike what has been said, the HOA board is the governing body and is responsible for insuring that all members adhere to the CC&R's.



That reminds me... Just how much power does the HOA have? Can they actually force someone out of their home? Or is it more in terms of fining them up the wazoo for violations?


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## bud16415 (Jun 28, 2016)

zannej said:


> That reminds me... Just how much power does the HOA have? Can they actually force someone out of their home? Or is it more in terms of fining them up the wazoo for violations?



I dont know for sure but I think they all have different powers in their covenant. 

Some can merely make suggestions and others have quite a bit of legal rights to enforcement. Some people want the strong covenant to protect their property values from neighbors that might have tastes that dont fit in. I have seen all kinds of crazy rules and neighbors that do nothing but try and enforce them. Our friends live in a place where a car cannot be parked in the driveway unless it is a guest and then cant remain there for more than 6 hours. They have an overflow parking area a couple blocks away and if you have an extra car or overnight guests they have to park there. 

I couldnt stand all the rules but they love them.


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## Snoonyb (Jun 28, 2016)

It depends upon how the CC&R's are written and who their attny of record is.


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## zannej (Jun 29, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> I dont know for sure but I think they all have different powers in their covenant.
> 
> Some can merely make suggestions and others have quite a bit of legal rights to enforcement. Some people want the strong covenant to protect their property values from neighbors that might have tastes that dont fit in. I have seen all kinds of crazy rules and neighbors that do nothing but try and enforce them. Our friends live in a place where a car cannot be parked in the driveway unless it is a guest and then cant remain there for more than 6 hours. They have an overflow parking area a couple blocks away and if you have an extra car or overnight guests they have to park there.
> 
> I couldnt stand all the rules but they love them.


Yikes. I've heard all kinds of nightmare stories about HOAs and such. I would never want to live in a neighborhood like that-- but then, I'm antisocial enough that I don't even want to see or hear my neighbors. I don't want to be able to even see other houses from where I live-- which is currently the case. 

I think if something like the house-painting thing had happened in my area, depending on the owners, it would just be accepted or someone would end up with a black eye & would be persuaded to have it rectified at their expense.


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## slownsteady (Jun 29, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> All repairs are "required" to be approved by the HOA board "prior" to the repairs being started.
> 
> Unlike what has been said, the HOA board is the governing body and is responsible for insuring that all members adhere to the CC&R's.


All HOA's are not created equal. The deed or other rules & regs must be checked.


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 29, 2016)

zannej said:


> I do agree that it was fraud. Family B has been refusing to answer their door and haven't spoken to Family A since & they can't get them to come outside to have the painting contractor confirm it was them. I think they were paid in cash so there was no paper trail and they claimed to be the owners.
> 
> But yeah, I think Callmevilla's solution is a good one.



One more thing ....  If the painting contractor refuses to provide testimony or written proof then THEY ARE ACCESSORIES to the fraud.  Another lawyer's letter needs to go to them to compel their cooperation if they refuse a reasonable request.  They can be named as co-defendants and would incur attorney's fees .... which would e more than they made on this job.


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## zannej (Jun 30, 2016)

CallMeVilla said:


> One more thing ....  If the painting contractor refuses to provide testimony or written proof then THEY ARE ACCESSORIES to the fraud.  Another lawyer's letter needs to go to them to compel their cooperation if they refuse a reasonable request.  They can be named as co-defendants and would incur attorney's fees .... which would e more than they made on this job.


From what I recall from the question, the owners said that they tried to get the painters to come identify the neighbors, but that the neighbors refused to answer the door and hid inside so they couldn't identify them as the culprits who hired them. They were having trouble proving it was them. I would have tried to get a photo and taken it to the painters. But it might not be easy. The description the painters gave did match the looks of the neighbors though.

I hope they get it sorted out.


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## Snoonyb (Jun 30, 2016)

Do you know how short a period of time it takes a P.I. to have photos of every member of that family?

If the HOA board doesn't already have them on file.


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## marshallmosby56 (Jul 3, 2016)

That is unbelievable to say the least. This is the first time I am reading about an incident like this. Its like negative version of Elves and the Shoemaker  On a serious note though I think the paint contractors are equally to be blamed with those Yellow color hating neighbors.


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## zannej (Jul 3, 2016)

marshallmosby56 said:


> That is unbelievable to say the least. This is the first time I am reading about an incident like this. Its like negative version of Elves and the Shoemaker  On a serious note though I think the paint contractors are equally to be blamed with those Yellow color hating neighbors.


I was pretty surprised by the story too, but stranger things have happened. The painters had no way of knowing that the people hiring them were not the owners or did not have the authority to have the house painted (although, it's surprising that nobody from the HOA stopped in to complain about it being done without being asked first). Secondly, the painters probably had no idea that someone would hire them to paint someone else's house without permission. Usually if someone pays to have work done on someone else's house, it is to do something kind for the person. It is unusual for someone to spend that amount of money on someone else out of spite.
Save​


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## nealtw (Jul 3, 2016)

I have seen this question before, I think it is asked by the people who want to paint the house next door.


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## slownsteady (Jul 3, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I have seen this question before, I think it is asked by the people who want to paint the house next door.


Can you find it by doing a search of the site?


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## nealtw (Jul 3, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Can you find it by doing a search of the site?



Years ago there was a radio program where people could phone in about there problems and the guys on the radio would call BS every time they got that question.


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## zannej (Jul 6, 2016)

Ahh. Now that is interesting.


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