# Re-pitching the roof (with an addition)



## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 28, 2018)

Hi, 

I'm in the midst of planning a house addition. I have a small approx 800sq foot, one floor house and am planning to add about 400sq feet to it. It's essentially a rectangle and it is being recommended to us that we completely rebuild the roof from the current part over to the new part so that's its supported properly and so that we can get a higher pitch on the roof. 
I'm kind of concerned about ripping the entire roof off but as far as my (extremely) limited knowledge goes, it has to be done. 
My actual question (may or may not be a stupid one) but I can't seem to find the answer online anywhere and don't have have actual framers/roofers lined up yet so here it goes... if we need to rebuild the roof, with new trusses does the current roof have to be taken all the way down to the ceiling? if so will the actual ceiling stay in tack or will it be exposed and need to be replace? 
Like I said, this is my first time and I have limited knowledge so any answers or advice that could be given would be greatly appreciated. 
I've attached a picture of my baby house for reference. The addition will come out towards the side where the vehicle is. 

Thanks in advance


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## nealtw (Aug 28, 2018)

FirstTimeRenoer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm in the midst of planning a house addition. I have a small approx 800sq foot, one floor house and am planning to add about 400sq feet to it. It's essentially a rectangle and it is being recommended to us that we completely rebuild the roof from the current part over to the new part so that's its supported properly and so that we can get a higher pitch on the roof.
> I'm kind of concerned about ripping the entire roof off but as far as my (extremely) limited knowledge goes, it has to be done.
> ...


where is the addition going. The old roof question. I have seen the tails cut off the old rafters the outside walls raised to just above the old roof and scissor trusses added right over the top.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 28, 2018)

Will the addition fill the porch/entry area, or extend in front of the vehicle?


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## bud16415 (Aug 28, 2018)

After looking at the picture of your cute little house and I’m sure you can use the extra room. I personally wouldn’t mess with disrupting the whole house with a radical roof change unless I had to or had a lot of cash to spend and was going to do one of those HGTV house transformation.


Most people just need a extra master bedroom and another bath or more room for kids bedrooms and need an addition without major work.


I would go straight over with the existing roof line and building size if possible and match the roof to the old slope. To make it look nice I would then re-roof at least that front face. Spend the extra money on a larger area if anything.


Welcome to the forum.


Keep in mind we all have different ideas and will offer guidance no mater what direction you want to go.


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## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 28, 2018)

bud16415 said:


> After looking at the picture of your cute little house and I’m sure you can use the extra room. I personally wouldn’t mess with disrupting the whole house with a radical roof change unless I had to or had a lot of cash to spend and was going to do one of those HGTV house transformation.
> 
> 
> Most people just need a extra master bedroom and another bath or more room for kids bedrooms and need an addition without major work.
> ...



Hi, 

I agree with you. That is ideally what I'd like the do and what I intended to do... you're correct, right down to the master bedroom and bath. 

However because we're taking out that whole side wall (the one closest to the vehicle) we're being told by our designer that we'll have to re-do the entire roof in order for the house to remain structurally sound without that support wall. Either that or a beam in the middle of our already small living room. 

I'm attached the proposed layout plan so you can see where the existing side wall is coming out. Maybe that will give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. 

Just trying to make sure I'm not about to take on a project that's not necessary. 

Thanks in advance, appreciate all the comments and opinions


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## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 28, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> Will the addition fill the porch/entry area, or extend in front of the vehicle?



It will extend straight out infront of the vehicle, I've attached the proposed plan in my comment above if you want to look at that for more context.

Thanks!


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## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 28, 2018)

nealtw said:


> where is the addition going. The old roof question. I have seen the tails cut off the old rafters the outside walls raised to just above the old roof and scissor trusses added right over the top.View attachment 20947




Hmmm, this may be an option for us, however I'm wondering if it would fix the issue of the house being structurally sound still given that we're removing a whole exterior wall and there's no beam or additional support with this method. Or is it essentially like building new support? 

Thank you for your thoughts! 
Really appreciate it.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 28, 2018)

Your plan would be a lot clearer had the designer put in dashed lines to show the existing layout of the walls being removed, the proposed beam and the direction of the ceiling joists, because I only see a single 10' header.


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## nealtw (Aug 28, 2018)

You want to take the wall out between the kitchen and living room????
He can make the first truss a girder  and put a flush beam in to replace the wall , you will not see it later.


They put a hanger like this on the side of a 2 ply girder turss
https://www.fastenersplus.com/Simps...rder-Truss-Hanger-W-SDS-Screws-G90-Galvanized


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## bud16415 (Aug 28, 2018)

Don’t know if your roof is stick framed or truss but I would assume going out the gable end like you are planning would be logical as the front and back will carry the roof weight. I’m not a builder so I might be missing something. Most of the time the ceiling joists run that way.


My guess is the little bump out in front was added on. Looks that way to me.


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## nealtw (Aug 28, 2018)

bud16415 said:


> Don’t know if your roof is stick framed or truss but I would assume going out the gable end like you are planning would be logical as the front and back will carry the roof weight. I’m not a builder so I might be missing something. Most of the time the ceiling joists run that way.
> 
> 
> My guess is the little bump out in front was added on. Looks that way to me.


the span is too far across the living room and kitchen, so there is a bearing wall there that they want to remove. The designer has an idea in his head and is not thinking about best practice.
All he can see is remove the roof and replace it with trusses. and there is no need for that or a visible beam.  I would get a more qualified guy.


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## slownsteady (Aug 29, 2018)

A designer is not an engineer or an architect. Get one involved. There's always a way to do it and we might come up with three or four and end up arguing among ourselves to defend each one's idea. You should have someone on site to review the plans.
Do you _have to_ blow off the existing exterior wall?


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## mabloodhound (Aug 29, 2018)

I think your plan is fine.  Removing the gable end wall is also no problem.  Gables do not carry a lot of weight and are there to hold the side walls together.  Putting in a beam like Neal suggested will keep the side walls from splaying out.
I would rebuild the roof with a steeper pitch.  Either as Neal suggested with the scissor trusses or stick frame it.  As for removing the interior ceiling we would need to know how it's built now.  There may be ceiling joists that could remain and just do the roof over that.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 29, 2018)

slownsteady said:


> A designer is not an engineer or an architect. Get one involved. There's always a way to do it and we might come up with three or four and end up arguing among ourselves to defend each one's idea. You should have someone on site to review the plans.
> Do you _have to_ blow off the existing exterior wall?



Way to early for an engineer and for this design, an architect would be way to expensive.

As for the design, this designer's got cards he ain't showin, IE. a bachelor kitchen in a 3 bdrm house.

The roof pitch appears to be a 5:12, so leave it alone and install the struc. truss and carry on.


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## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 30, 2018)

mabloodhound said:


> I think your plan is fine.  Removing the gable end wall is also no problem.  Gables do not carry a lot of weight and are there to hold the side walls together.  Putting in a beam like Neal suggested will keep the side walls from splaying out.
> I would rebuild the roof with a steeper pitch.  Either as Neal suggested with the scissor trusses or stick frame it.  As for removing the interior ceiling we would need to know how it's built now.  There may be ceiling joists that could remain and just do the roof over that.



THANK YOU! 
This is the information I was looking for. 
So then I just need to find out if the ceiling joists could remain intact while the roof structure is rebuilt?
Hopefully that is the case, as the whole ceiling coming off sounds like a way bigger task than i has anticipated


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## FirstTimeRenoer (Aug 30, 2018)

slownsteady said:


> A designer is not an engineer or an architect. Get one involved. There's always a way to do it and we might come up with three or four and end up arguing among ourselves to defend each one's idea. You should have someone on site to review the plans.
> Do you _have to_ blow off the existing exterior wall?



Hi, thank you for your point of view!
I have reached out to an engineer, I'm just waiting to hear back from him with his thoughts. 

Unfortunately I think we do need to take the whole wall out in order to increase the size of our small kitchen.


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## mabloodhound (Aug 30, 2018)

Re-doing the roof is not that bad of a job IF you get a good framing CREW.  Basic frame over the existing part could be done in a day.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 30, 2018)

FirstTimeRenoer said:


> Hi, thank you for your point of view!
> I have reached out to an engineer, I'm just waiting to hear back from him with his thoughts.



Here is the process, and it's been my practice for over 40yrs; A formal set of plans are completed, the plans are then submitted to either a civil or structural engineer, the plans are then returned to the designer for changes and corrections, they are then returned to the engineer for review and compliance, If they conform they are wet stamped and attached to the plans for submittal to the building dept.

An engineer at this point, is a waste of his time.



FirstTimeRenoer said:


> Unfortunately I think we do need to take the whole wall out in order to increase the size of our small kitchen.



Taking the wall out is no big deal.

Changing the whole roof is a waste of your money, money which could well be devoted to upgrading the design and livability of the dwelling, which needs it.


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## slownsteady (Aug 30, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> A formal set of plans are completed, the plans are then submitted to either a civil or structural engineer, the plans are then returned to the designer for changes and corrections,


So who will drawing up the formal plans? And when in the process will that happen. The floor plan does not seem to be a question.


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## nealtw (Aug 30, 2018)

FirstTimeRenoer said:


> THANK YOU!
> This is the information I was looking for.
> So then I just need to find out if the ceiling joists could remain intact while the roof structure is rebuilt?
> Hopefully that is the case, as the whole ceiling coming off sounds like a way bigger task than i has anticipated


Will you be removing a wall in the old section between kitchen and living room. The ceiling joist are joined there?


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## Snoonyb (Aug 30, 2018)

slownsteady said:


> So who will drawing up the formal plans? And when in the process will that happen. The floor plan does not seem to be a question.



The designer should have done that already


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## Snoonyb (Aug 30, 2018)

nealtw said:


> Will you be removing a wall in the old section between kitchen and living room. The ceiling joist are joined there?



The plan is so devoid of details, to be virtually useless.

As many years that I've done drawings, I'd be embarrassed to submit those even for consideration.


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## nealtw (Aug 30, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> The plan is so devoid of details, to be virtually useless.
> 
> As many years that I've done drawings, I'd be embarrassed to submit those even for consideration.


He showed us one page, and he didn't understand the problem and the designer doesn't know what is available.


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