# Paper behind stucco



## dimme (Dec 6, 2015)

We removed some of the bricks around our fireplace in our living room . This started as a simple cosmetic update. When we removed the bricks and sheetrock we found evidence of a very old leak. I believe it was from before we moved in 12 years ago. anyway 2 of the 2x4 studs on this outer, load bearing wall we completely rotten, to the point where a section just crumbled. I started to carefully remove them and to replace with new wood. The wall is stucco on the outside with building paper the some type of outdoor sheetrock attached to the studs. The Stucco is in perfect  condition with no cracks. However when I was removing the bad studs some of the outdoor sheetrock crumbled and took some of the building paper with it. So I can see straight through to the Stucco. I put up some temporary studs for now while I figure the nest step. I assume there is no way to properly fix it from the inside and still be water proof. So is my only option  to have the stucco removed and the wall re-sheath and new building paper and re stuccoed. At that time the framing can be repaired. The section is about 9 ft high by 6 feet wide and its a one story home. I also assume this is not a DIY job I could do on the weekend. Any ideas how much this is going to cost, I am in the SF bay area.
Thanks


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## oldognewtrick (Dec 6, 2015)

I would first identify if the leak is still active before any repairs are started. Just because you think it's old may not be the case. Can you post some pics?


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## nealtw (Dec 6, 2015)

All outside walls are load bearing , some more than others. Is there a gable end on the roof above this or does the gutter run along that section of roof?

It is likely fixable without touching the stucco with making it water proof.
Which way do the ceiling joists run above and the floor joists below.
Can you post some photos?


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## Snoonyb (Dec 6, 2015)

dimme said:


> We removed some of the bricks around our fireplace in our living room . This started as a simple cosmetic update. When we removed the bricks and sheetrock we found evidence of a very old leak. I believe it was from before we moved in 12 years ago. anyway 2 of the 2x4 studs on this outer, load bearing wall we completely rotten, to the point where a section just crumbled. I started to carefully remove them and to replace with new wood. The wall is stucco on the outside with building paper the some type of outdoor sheetrock attached to the studs. The Stucco is in perfect  condition with no cracks. However when I was removing the bad studs some of the outdoor sheetrock crumbled and took some of the building paper with it. So I can see straight through to the Stucco. I put up some temporary studs for now while I figure the nest step. I assume there is no way to properly fix it from the inside and still be water proof. So is my only option  to have the stucco removed and the wall re-sheath and new building paper and re stuccoed. At that time the framing can be repaired. The section is about 9 ft high by 6 feet wide and its a one story home. I also assume this is not a DIY job I could do on the weekend. Any ideas how much this is going to cost, I am in the SF bay area.
> Thanks



First of all, stucco is composed of sand, lime and red label cement and is by that composition, water resistant, and will remain so unless disturbed or it cracks when the San Andreas fault ruptures.

What you have assumed to be a drywall product, is more than likely the scratch, and or brown coat of the stucco.

In the areas that the deteriorated wood and paper wear removed, is there any wire visible?

Is there a masonry exterior chimney associated with the fireplace? 

To preserve the stucco, intact and , relatively, undisturbed, the repairs, since you are only talking 5 or 6 studs, can be accomplished from the inside.

In dwellings of that era, stucco is, besides being weather proofing, also a component of the building shear resistance.

If and when you publish photos, some times a wider panorama is helpful.


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## dimme (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks for the help. Here is a photo before I remove the stud and the sheetrock crumbled. The area that is white on the bottom lower third is what crumbled, The material that crumbled is a type of sheetrock with a black paper on both sides. Now in that area all you see is building paper that is ripped some wire mesh and the back of the stucco. I try to the a close up tonight/  There is a gutter that runs along that section of roof. We assume the leak came from the flashing that ran along the roof and chimney, because the wall was covered in brick we would not notice the was wet.


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## nealtw (Dec 7, 2015)

So water on the roof has to make it's way around the chimney.

Stucco and brick do obsorb moisture that condences against the sheeting and runs down and should drain out of the bottom.
 The sheets you have are likely 2 ft wide, the paper wraped the whole sheet and the top and bottom of the sheets had a taper or shiplap so water would not enter the joint.
I don't know much about that product or the newer products but I think you could glue a new peice to the stucco but protecting the cut edge of the new stuff might be tricky, maybe just teape the edges with red (Tuck )tape.
When you remove would with rot, you always end up leaving some that is questionable or discoloured, it wants to be treated with a copper based liquid. Look for  quart of end treatment that is used for treated lumber.
If you remove 3 studs at one time and may not repair right away you may want to build a temp wall to support the ceiling and roof.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 7, 2015)

dimme said:


> Thanks for the help. Here is a photo before I remove the stud and the sheetrock crumbled. The area that is white on the bottom lower third is what crumbled, The material that crumbled is a type of sheetrock with a black paper on both sides. Now in that area all you see is building paper that is ripped some wire mesh and the back of the stucco. I try to the a close up tonight/  There is a gutter that runs along that section of roof. We assume the leak came from the flashing that ran along the roof and chimney, because the wall was covered in brick we would not notice the was wet.



Your dwelling is slightly earlier then I assumed.

_"What you have assumed to be a drywall product, is more than likely the scratch, and or brown coat of the stucco."_

*Correction;*

What you are removing in the lower third is probably remnants of rock lath.

There is an adhesive, black, building paper product which can be used to patch the lath building paper, where removed.

Can you increase the width of the interior photo to encompass more of the header, as well as an exterior photo of the chimney and a close-up of the stucco, chimney intersection.


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## dimme (Dec 7, 2015)

Here is a closeup of the ripped paper and a medium shot ( the new looking wood is my temporary wall). Also is a wider shot of the wall. The outside where the wall and chimney meet is all stucco, there is no brick on the outside of the house. I went up on the roof last week and it all looked good that why I think it a old leak. We had a new roof put on 12 years ago when we move it, and the one we replaced was in bad shape. I thought of some ways I could repair it from the inside but on the other hand I really not sure if you could waterproof a wall from the inside, but I am no expert. Thanks for all the input.


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## nealtw (Dec 7, 2015)

dimme said:


> Here is a closeup of the ripped paper and a medium shot ( the new looking wood is my temporary wall). Also is a wider shot of the wall. The outside where the wall and chimney meet is all stucco, there is no brick on the outside of the house. I went up on the roof last week and it all looked good that why I think it a old leak. We had a new roof put on 12 years ago when we move it, and the one we replaced was in bad shape. I thought of some ways I could repair it from the inside but on the other hand I really not sure if you could waterproof a wall from the inside, but I am no expert. Thanks for all the input.



It will be up to you on what you can get away with or if you have to dig into the stucco.

I would be looking to fix it from the inside.So if I run thru what might be my repair and you can look at that and see if it would work for you.

With the temp wall holding the weight cut the studs just above the damaged drywall or the rot, which ever is higher, would be best if you could get a straight line just above and leaving the  join in the old drywall.
Build a new wall with top and bottom plaltes and place studs so they will line up with where the old studs are so the load will carry down. Add to the bottom plate a Z flashing that would transfer water away from the wall out to the inside of the stucco. Cut the replacement drywall to the size needed maybe a little smaller  to allow for flashing and fitting and attach that to you wall and tape the edges with tuck tape.
You will have cut edges on the old drywall that need to be protected. Perhaps just sliding a peice of galvinised sheet metal between the old drywall and tar paper. Make sure your wall is square
Carefully fit and attach the drywall to the wall so that the patch will line up with the hole. Cover the patch with house wrap or tar paper leaving it high a few inches so it covers the top edge and can be stapled to the upper edge of the wall. Install the wall. 
After that all you would hae is to re-attach the stucco from the outside. We can cover that later.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 8, 2015)

dimme said:


> Here is a closeup of the ripped paper and a medium shot ( the new looking wood is my temporary wall). Also is a wider shot of the wall. The outside where the wall and chimney meet is all stucco, there is no brick on the outside of the house. I went up on the roof last week and it all looked good that why I think it a old leak. We had a new roof put on 12 years ago when we move it, and the one we replaced was in bad shape. I thought of some ways I could repair it from the inside but on the other hand I really not sure if you could waterproof a wall from the inside, but I am no expert. Thanks for all the input.



Interesting construction, a look into my past.

The reason I had ask about the exterior, is that the 2 x 4 diagonal bracing, was used as backing for chimney flashing. However in this case is a shear  resistance element.

Thanks for the wider view of the header. I was interested in how far the mold had progressed.

I would first address the mold residue removal from the areas to be repaired.

I'm old school, so are my methods. Apply household bleach with a spray bottle to the header, the king stud, the 2nd stud too the left and the 2 x 6 to the right of the king stud, unless it deteriorated to the point of needing replacement. Allow to dry, then reapply and using a wire brush, gloves and a small puttyknife, remove the residue.Keep in mind, your interest is in retaining the integrity of the member.

The 1st stud too the left of the king stud has a section totally missing. When you rub you flat hand across the area, side to side of the stud, you'll find the area where the stud was, is depressed, which means the stucco has caused the wall cavity to be of a narrower depth then the stud.

Given the era of the dwelling construction, the studs are probably 3-5/8's, which are no longer standard.

Stucco lath was, and still is for some builders, a 3 step process; banjo wire, 8lb felt and 1"-20 stucco netting. The purpose of the 8lb. felt is to prevent moisture intrusion allowed by cracks in the stucco.
Before the advent of weepscreed any moisture intrusion was shed down to the earth, and absorbed.

When you have selected the areas of the studs that are damaged beyond repair, and assuming you have or can rent a sawzall, use a 10Tx7" blade and insert it upside down so you are not in a bind.

In repairing the lath paper, because of its age is brittle, use the self-adhesive black paper from the sill up to the diagonal bracing.

Were I doing this work, other than what I've said, I would notch the diagonal bracing and sister the studs using full length 2 x 3's secured with screws.


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