# Can I pull 110 power from my well pump circuit?



## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

Wondering if I can pull power from my well pump power junction box near my well? I moved my tool shed next to the well and would like to run a sprinkler timer in the shed. I have done no research on my well pump, I don't know if it is 220 or 110.


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## bud16415 (Aug 21, 2015)

It might not be copasetic but why not. The pros will say it&#8217;s on a high amp breaker so you won&#8217;t have breaker protection for a low amp product but you could put something like a 5a fuse in there and then your plug. It most likely won&#8217;t be to code.


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## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

What if I ran it to a 15 amp GFI plug?


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## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

Or change out the junction box to a small breaker box then new breaker for the pump and a breaker for my plug?

I don't mind spending a few bucks doing this.


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## bud16415 (Aug 21, 2015)

I think you could do that and call it a sub panel. You want a GFCI anyway you look at it out there to plug into. The GFCI wont limit current it just protects for shock. My hot tub is a 50a 220v GFCI sub panel and it has two spots for 120v breakers you can add. It would be about the same thing as far as I can see.


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## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

Only thing I can think of is if it is 220 now and there is no neutral wire?


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## nealtw (Aug 21, 2015)

Do you have a light in your pump shed?


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## joecaption (Aug 21, 2015)

Shed should have it's own power source.
Left everyone guessing what size wire was run to the pump house, 120 or 240 volt, what type wire and number of wires.
Going to get a whole lot of questions and a bunch of guesses until you fill in the blanks.


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## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

No pump shed. This is ca and it doesn't get cold here so they just leave them out in the open.

This is a shed I put up next to the well.

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## Chris (Aug 21, 2015)

I can run a new conduit but would rather not just for a sprinkler timer.


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## havasu (Aug 22, 2015)

How about a solar inverter?


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## Chris (Aug 22, 2015)

Conduit is easy and cheap compared to that.


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## bud16415 (Aug 22, 2015)

joecaption said:


> Shed should have it's own power source.
> Left everyone guessing what size wire was run to the pump house, 120 or 240 volt, what type wire and number of wires.
> Going to get a whole lot of questions and a bunch of guesses until you fill in the blanks.


 

You need to open the bottom section of the box shown in the last photo of the boxes. I'm assuming that box is for your pump. take a close up photo of whats in there and tell us how many amp that is stated to be. other way to do it is take a photo of where the pump wires exit the main box at the house.


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## Chris (Aug 22, 2015)

Will do in a few when I get out there.


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## Speedbump (Aug 22, 2015)

Get a close up of the box on the right.  I can't read it in the picture above.


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

Pics finally

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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

This is everything by my well

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## Speedbump (Apr 14, 2016)

The box and cover in pic # 3 and 4.  Does it say Pumptec anywhere?


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

Covers. What's left of them

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1460650830.407165.jpg


Looks like it used to say a logo with a R in it and something electronics

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1460650887.306429.jpg


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## Snoonyb (Apr 14, 2016)

How many feeds are there to this cluster and what are the breaker/s?

Can you identify the conductors entering the pump control box?


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

If you look two posts ago the pictures go in series from power coming in to going to the pump. Two hots and a ground coming from the 30amp breaker at my house panel. Looks like I am lacking a neutral but not sure if there is a way around that or if I have to pull new wire?


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## JoeD (Apr 14, 2016)

You have to pull a new wire.


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

JoeD said:


> You have to pull a new wire.




That's not what I wanted to here.

How can I tell what size wire I need for the pump feed? I can't tell from the existing what size it is. I can pull all new


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## Speedbump (Apr 14, 2016)

Chris,

A neutral isn't required to run the pump, only a ground for code.  One horse subs are all 230 volt.  

I'm pretty sure that box is a pumptec which monitors motor amps in case of a dry run situation.  Hopefully it doesn't mean you have a low yield well.  Can you run lots of water for extended periods without running out of water?


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

I can run great clean water all day and night if I want. Never had an issue.25 gpm if I remember correct.


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## Speedbump (Apr 14, 2016)

That's real good.  You can probably remove the pumptec or wire through the box.  It could be a nuisance while hooked up.  Having the other control means you have a three wire pump which means you really have a 4 wire pump including the ground wire.


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

What does it do?


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## kok328 (Apr 14, 2016)

Are you rewiring the pump or still trying to get a 120V outlet?
Wire size will depend on the amperage of the pump and circuit breaker being used.
Most of the time you can tell the wire size just by looking at it or see if the AWG rating is still readable.


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

I was trying to pull power from the pump breaker for a sprinkler timer. Doesn't look possible so my new thought is to pull the existing wires and either pull new wires for all or add a nuetral and pull all back through using existing conduit. It is about a 70 foot run down a slope or I would just trench a new conduit and pull from my house panel.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 14, 2016)

Chris said:


> I was trying to pull power from the pump breaker for a sprinkler timer. Doesn't look possible so my new thought is to pull the existing wires and either pull new wires for all or add a nuetral and pull all back through using existing conduit. It is about a 70 foot run down a slope or I would just trench a new conduit and pull from my house panel.



Since your 240V run, and it's antiquated by todays standards, does not have a neutral, 1st find out if you can obtain a 240V sprinkler timer, which would be a standard timer with a stepdown transformer.

*Before you do this, you need to determine the operating amperage of the pump, compared to the breaker controlling the circuit.*

If not, shut the pump circuit off at the breaker, obtain the length required of #12 white stranded and the size of the grnd conductor, because you use the existing grnd. conductor as the pull for the replacement grnd. and neutral conductors.

From there you can add a weather protected recep. and the timer right along with the other equip.


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## Chris (Apr 14, 2016)

I'm thinking for the time being I will just move my timer to the house and down the road install another conduit so I can pull more power for some lighting and eventually a gate motor.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 14, 2016)

The 120V for the timer is stepped down within the sprinkler timer to 24V and the current draw is minimal.

When you do that, the variety you are contemplating, budget for 20% more than the known operational range.

Stranded wire is easier to work with.


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## nealtw (Apr 14, 2016)

Just order a timer from England.:rofl:


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## Speedbump (Apr 15, 2016)

> What does it do?


It monitors running amps of the motor.  Each time the motor starts it takes a sample of the running amps;  then looks for an abrupt change.  Like the amp drop that would occur when a submersible pump runs out of water.  This would open a set of points that would disable the motor for either a preset amount of time up to (I believe) 1.5 hours or until manually reset.  This is set up at time of installation. As long as your pump can run wide open for hours, you don't need this kind of protection.  It's for low yield wells that produce just a little more than humidity.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2016)

Makes sense. I'll leave it until it gives me issues. We are sitting in an underground river (so my well guy told me). A neighbor down the street can't get any water from the ground.


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## Speedbump (Apr 15, 2016)

Can't hurt, the worse that can happen is a few nuisance trips for whatever reason. 

Underground river huh?  I'l bet that guy uses Willow sticks to find water too!


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2016)

I bet he does. I can't even figure out how I have water. Supposedly my well is only 150 feet deep which is shallow for California. I live in a hill about 600 feet above the valley below me.


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## havasu (Apr 15, 2016)

Your inlet pipe goes sideways and is why Lake Elsinore is now going dry.


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## bud16415 (Apr 15, 2016)

Chris 
As you know you don&#8217;t have a common and you can&#8217;t use the green wire even though it is insulated as a common by code. You can ether pull a common from the house or install a 240-120 transformer with both 240 legs fused to protect the transformer and everything down stream. The transformer might have to be bonded to the ground stake you have out there. They sell a lot of 240-120 transformers that will output 100, 200, 300 watts etc. something like that will balance your 240 line and shouldn&#8217;t add enough extra load to be a problem. I would run that thru a GFCI or find a transformer with GFCI as part of a power supply. They sell those types to adapt European devices to American equipment. 

I&#8217;m not an electrician and others can comment on their thoughts on doing it this way but for the small load in your shed a light and a valve I see no reason this won&#8217;t be to code and work. 

If this is not a good idea tell us why.


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## bud16415 (Apr 27, 2016)

Wondering if you went with a transformer yet on this?


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## Chris (Apr 27, 2016)

Haven't done anything yet.

Everyday is a different battle around here


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