# Home Electrical Oddity



## doechsli (Oct 4, 2014)

Today I had something happen I can't explain.  Two circuits in my house went dead.  Reseting the breakers didn't help.  I was trying to diagnose the issue and had one of the breakers off and the other was still on.  I had not touched anything for 10 minutes and I look and I notice the one circuit is back on.  I reset the breaker on the other circuit and it works.  The breakers were not next to each other on the panel so I can't figure out what happened.  Is this possibly a POCO issue?


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## nealtw (Oct 4, 2014)

I would start looking for loose wires somewhere. First suspect would be in the breaker box.


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## JoeD (Oct 4, 2014)

Could there have been more than two circuits out but you didn't notice? It could be a loose connection on one of your hot wires feeding your house.


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## CallMeVilla (Oct 5, 2014)

When you reset the breakers, did you first push them to fully OFF then back to fully ON?  That is a common mistake.

Next, you can shut off all power ... then systematically press all breakers firmly into the main buss (sometime older breaker can become loose).  Next, systematically re-tighten all breaker wires.  Once you have done this, systematically check tightness of all neutrals.  There are times when this maintenance procedure can surprise you.

If these steps don't solve your problem then a deeper look needs to be done.


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## doechsli (Oct 6, 2014)

More info.  Last night the issue happened again.  This time I investigated more completely.  Seems way more than two of my circuits were out.  My electric dryer (220) failed.....washing machine...also failed as were the original two circuits.  On a whim I reset the main breaker and all of the circuits came on momentarily (for maybe a second).  I reset the main again and they all came back online and remained on overnight without issue.  I have a call into an electrician but I know time is money with these guys so I'm trying to do whatever tests I can to help him get a fix on the problem.


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## nealtw (Oct 6, 2014)

Bad main breaker or poor supply from the street??


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## drewdin (Oct 6, 2014)

something similar happened to me a month ago, for me it all came down to what changed last. Even though nothing changed in over two months.

Somehow the switch I replaced, a wire came loose and shorted out on the second floor. It took me two days of having no lights on the second floor before i found it. Good luck!


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## doechsli (Oct 7, 2014)

Still more info.  I had the electrician out and he really couldn't find anything.  He pulled the panel and inspected it and commented it was a neat professional job and everything was tight.  He did point out to me that each "leg" as you go vertically down the panel is every other breaker.  So that means breaker 1,3,5,7,9 etc on the left and right side are on the same leg.  Amazingly enough that lines up exactly with the breakers that are failing so it appears that I am intermittently losing one leg.  The sparky suggested that I call the POCO and have them check the transformer and if they say it's all good then replace my main breaker ($250).  What do you guys think.....


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## nealtw (Oct 7, 2014)

I would change the breakers around so the two in question are on the other leg. Then if the problem follow to that leg, the problem would likely be in the house.
The other thought would be that total draw on one leg is more than the main can deliver. Do you have big users like toaster, fridge, dishwasher  and washer all on one leg.


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## bud16415 (Oct 7, 2014)

I would start with the power company. They can check meter the entry line and back to the pole. It sure sounds like the problem is outside your house. 


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## beachguy005 (Oct 8, 2014)

The next time it happens check for voltage coming into the main from the line side.  You should have 120 volts on each pole. If you don't, it's likely the utility company.  If you do have your 240 volts on your line side, then check your load side.  You should have 120 volts on each pole.


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## oldognewtrick (Oct 8, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> The next time it happens check for voltage coming into the main from the line side.  You should have 120 volts on each pole. If you don't, it's likely the utility company.  If you do have your 240 volts on your line side, then check your load side.  You should have 120 volts on each pole.



Can you explain to the OP and any others reading this how to safely check the voltage and what equipment they will need?


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## JoeD (Oct 8, 2014)

When the POCO comes make sure they check in the meter can also not just the connections at the pole, the transformer and the weather head.


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## beachguy005 (Oct 8, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> Can you explain to the OP and any others reading this how to safely check the voltage and what equipment they will need?



  Just take a volt meter set on the 300 volt scale and read across the 2 lugs on the supply side of the main breaker.  You should read 240 volts.   Read between one lug and and a ground bar and you should read 120 volts for each lug. If you don't have 240 volts coming in then it could be a loose connection upstream, at your meter, the service mast where it feeds the house, or where you tie into the utility's service lines on the street.  If you have 240 volts coming into the main, and with the main breaker on, read the voltage on the load side of the main at the lugs.  You should have 240 volts.  Or you can check between each load side lug and ground.  You should read 120 volts at each pole.  If you're reading 240 in and only 120 out...while it's happening, then you have a bad main breaker.  You want to do this when you have your issue....and as always..be cautious when working on live equipment.


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## oldognewtrick (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks beachguy, the last thing we want is for someone to grab something that will leave a permanent mark.


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## doechsli (Oct 8, 2014)

Believe me I have a HEALTHY respect for electricity.......


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## carnuck (Oct 17, 2014)

Did the electrician even check the cables coming in were tight? Copper wiring I hope? Any storms in your area? Lightning strikes can cause issues much later by instantly corroding connections to the point they are ready to fail like a partially melted fuse.
   My wiring is copper but it's old (1972) so I got an IR gun like they use for testing for missing insulation spots and after 15 minutes of having everything plugged running in I went around the outside and looked for hot spots. Almost every spot was where an outlet was but I found one where someone had put a screw through the wiring!
   I've been slowly replacing all my outlets with good quality ones. My power bill drops each time I do.


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## bud16415 (Oct 17, 2014)

carnuck said:


> Did the electrician even check the cables coming in were tight? Copper wiring I hope? Any storms in your area? Lightning strikes can cause issues much later by instantly corroding connections to the point they are ready to fail like a partially melted fuse.
> My wiring is copper but it's old (1972) so I got an IR gun like they use for testing for missing insulation spots and after 15 minutes of having everything plugged running in I went around the outside and looked for hot spots. Almost every spot was where an outlet was but I found one where someone had put a screw through the wiring!
> I've been slowly replacing all my outlets with good quality ones. My power bill drops each time I do.


 

Carnuck brings up a good point and something I havent really gave much thought to. My new old house had been rewired with a 200 amp panel within the last 15 years would be my guess. So even though the house is 100 plus it has the wiring of a newer home. The homeowner must have really been into Christmas lighting as he has a string of outlets spaced every 10 feet along the ramp / deck in front of the house, and tied into a switch to make them work inside the house. I wanted a light for guests at the far end so I figured I would power it off the end outlet and it would work off the switch also. When I got it wired it didnt work and in trouble shooting it I found about half the outlets had no or poor connections even though everything was tight. Like Carnuck I replaced all the outlets and cleaned the wire ends as they had some sort of black oxide on the copper. 

With a good wrapped screw connection and tightened properly I would expect that connection to be good forever indoors. I could be wrong though. And outdoors I now know there is something that goes on. Is there grease or something that should be done for outside connections? The boxes are sealed fairly well but I doubt they are perfect seals. I dont know anyone that inspects and replaces outlets based on age. But I can see myself looking at the other outdoor outlets when I get a chance.


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## carnuck (Oct 20, 2014)

I use no-crode outside or damp/humid environments. My washer outlet was messed up bad when I got here. Took out the timer twice in the dryer until I caught it arcing one night as I closed the dryer door/


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