# Ice and water protection



## tglombardi (Apr 18, 2012)

Hi all
Just wanted to get your thoughts on this. I have been roofing for about 6-7 years and have always put the ice and water protection on the first 3 feet  and then the drip edge over the ice and water. After the drip edge I apply roll roofing as the starter and the the shingles.  I have read that some people put the drip edge on before the ice and water protection. Doesn't the ice and water directly on the roof deck provide better protection??  My thinking was that if any ice damns were to raise the drip edge, the roof still has the ice and water protection. 
Any thoughts/discussion would be appreciated!


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## nealtw (Apr 18, 2012)

I am not a rooffer but I would think your ice shield is last stopper of water when you have ice. So you are putting it there for the water that gets to it, you wouldn't want that water to go under the drip edge.


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## kok328 (Apr 18, 2012)

Good question, not sure about the order of installation but, here in MI the code is to have water shield from drip edge to 2' beyond the exterior wall.
So if you have 2' of soffit, you need 4' of water shield.


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## oldognewtrick (Apr 18, 2012)

All the installation specs I've seen show the drip edge installed first, then the ice and water shield. Water should always be allowed to shed with out restrictions, putting the drip edge over the water shield is like tucking your rain coat into your pants. I'm curious why you would use roll roofing as a starter? All shingle mfg's make a dedicated starter strip with a seal edge at the bottom. They spend a lot of money on research to see how all the components perform together.


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## tglombardi (Apr 18, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:
			
		

> All the installation specs I've seen show the drip edge installed first, then the ice and water shield. Water should always be allowed to shed with out restrictions, putting the drip edge over the water shield is like tucking your rain coat into your pants. I'm curious why you would use roll roofing as a starter? All shingle mfg's make a dedicated starter strip with a seal edge at the bottom. They spend a lot of money on research to see how all the components perform together.



Thanks for the input. The reason I put the drip edge over the ice and water protection is to protect the roof deck in case if water back up from ice damns. I use the roll roofing (or double coverage-half roll,half felt) as the starter because it is much larger and a better product than the 6 inch starter strips. The starter goes over the drip to allow the water to roll down if needed. The ice and water seals the deck to protect from ice backup.  If the ice damns are bad like they were last winter, they can lift the drip edge up. If the shingles are installed right there shouldn't be any water hitting the ice and water. That is why I like this system. I learned it from a roofer who has been doing roofs for 35 years. 
Before ice and water they used the wood starter shingles and those lasted. so the roll roofing as a starter I think is superior. We haven't had any leaks with this method, although it is probably a bit overkill.


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## inspectorD (Apr 19, 2012)

Sorry O'l dog...but with Grace Ice and water sheild, they want the membrane down first. This is all I ever use, we call it "human fly paper".
Here is a link,
http://www.na.graceconstruction.com...nderlayments/roofing_faqs.html&did=8#roofdrip


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## tglombardi (Apr 19, 2012)

That is very interesting.  That is why I asks the question because there doesn't seem to be a definite answer. I think the way I have been doing it works great.


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## nealtw (Apr 19, 2012)

Call me stupid but, if you have ice build up on the roof and water backs up thru the shingles, the sheild is the last line of defence. 
Why would you then allow the water to get under the drip edge?
With out ice you don't need a drip edge, it make sence that if water gets to the sheild you need to to protect the wood.


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## tglombardi (Apr 19, 2012)

Good point.  The drip edge also provides an avenue to get into the gutter. Another overkill step I do is add 1 1/8 inch piece of pt plywood (ripped down) against the fascia board so the drip edge sits out further to avoid any water traveling backwards to the fascia. I know the drip has the lower lip the is supposed to push the water out but this ensures the water rolls into the gutter and not behind the fascia.


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## nealtw (Apr 19, 2012)

I found this line in this link (One more detail. The ice and water shield should stick firmly over the top of the drip edge on the soffit edge of the roof. )
http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/1567


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## nealtw (Apr 20, 2012)

TG. About this treated lumber your adding, dosn't make it hard for the gutter guy.
Inspector; If you use Grace and you follow those instructions, you need to talk to them, it just would not pass the pee test.
 Pee test.   Put down the way the picture shows and stand under the edge while your partner pees on the sheild.


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## oldognewtrick (Apr 20, 2012)

inspectorD said:


> Sorry O'l dog...but with Grace Ice and water sheild, they want the membrane down first. This is all I ever use, we call it "human fly paper".
> Here is a link,
> http://www.na.graceconstruction.com...nderlayments/roofing_faqs.html&did=8#roofdrip



So, I called the Certainteed technical dept today and described the installation of Ice and Water, they said that in southern climates, the Ice and Water should go over the drip edge. This is where ice damming is not an issue. I live in the south and stand by my previous statement. I agree that in ice damming situations, the drip edge should go go the underlayment.


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## tglombardi (Apr 24, 2012)

Wow. That makes a lo of sense, the fact that it's different in the south. So it seems we are all doin it right based on region. 

In terms of the 3/4 inch strips I add, it doesn't make it harder for the gutter guy since there is still plenty of room on the fascia board to hang the gutters. It just pushes out so the rain drips in nicer. 

What is everyone's thoughts on starter strip along the rakes as well as eaves?  I'm doing a roof in rhode island this week, 2 miles from the beach. I was thinking the tar line would create additional wind protection. I usually don't use a starter strip on the rake here in ct. 
Thanks all! Great discussion.


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## oldognewtrick (Apr 24, 2012)

We run starter shingles on every job we do. Not a flipped around 3 tab, but a dedicated starter. You have less chance of blow off when you get the seal strip at the edge of the rake.


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