# Is my toilet handle leaking?



## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 3, 2016)

I think this small leak from the handle is causing the pool of water on the floor. Why is the handle leaking and why does it do it intermittently? It leaked like this a few weeks ago, then stopped, then again today.


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## slownsteady (Sep 3, 2016)

If you mean the flush lever is leaking, then I have to assume your tank is overfilled, because the water should never reach that high otherwise. Is it possible that you are seeing sweat buildup on the outside of your tank that appears to be a leak. Sweating can be significant, and cause puddles under your toilet.


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## CallMeVilla (Sep 3, 2016)

Your most probable sources for leakage are

1.  Water supply hose or connection to the tank
2.  The supply shut off (angle stop)
3.  The wax ring under the toilet
4.  The bolts holding the water tank to the toilet below it


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 3, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> If you mean the flush lever is leaking, then I have to assume your tank is overfilled, because the water should never reach that high otherwise. Is it possible that you are seeing sweat buildup on the outside of your tank that appears to be a leak. Sweating can be significant, and cause puddles under your toilet.



I don't know because I don't see it happening.

I bet it will be dry when I get home today.


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## CallMeVilla (Sep 3, 2016)

Well I suggest you get home, remove the top from the water tank and flush the toilet 6 times.  Observe closely.  Put you hand on the supply line and feel for water.  Use a flashlight to search for drips.  Its not magic, its only plumbing


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## jmr106 (Sep 3, 2016)

Most toilet bowls, unless they have been converter over to have lukewarm water supplies, fill up with cold water. That cold water causes condensation all over the outside of the porcelain tank, just like when you have ice water in a glass and it forms on the outside and runs down onto the table. This typically happens when someone takes a warm shower in the room and the tank has recently been flushed and is full of cold water or when the tank has been flushed a lot recently and continually filled up with a new supply of cold water back to back. The moisture keeps forming on the outside of the tank and drips down. After whatever number of hours of the toilet not being flushed, the water on the outside of the tank dries and it just leaves the water on the floor. A common issue in a lot of households. I've read that some people use a towel or something under it. 

Not sure that this is your problem, but just wanted to cover that as a potential issue, as well.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 4, 2016)

It is leaking from the handle because the toilet is overfilled. Why is the toilet overfilled?


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## jmr106 (Sep 4, 2016)

There should be a plastic screw at the top of the fill valve if you have the newer one.







It should turn by hand. Just adjusted mine a little the other day.

Got a pic of your tank? Notice how the water level is about an inch under the overflow tube. When I installed a new one in ours, I had to hacksaw the tube to make it shorter. The water would go into the tube far before getting up to the handle. That's like another inch above overflowing into the tube. Adjust the screw so that the water stops about an inch below the overflow tube. Is your overflow tube longer than it should be? Did someone recently install a new one or something? That's odd.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 4, 2016)

I think I got it.

What is the purpose of the overflow tube exactly?

What is the importance of the water fill line? Other than so it doesn't leak out the handle?

Also, I never actually mopped up any water, but it's always gone. Can that much of a puddle really evaporate? It was a pretty substantial puddle.


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## DFBonnett (Sep 4, 2016)

One thing else to check. Take the cover off and flush. Sometimes a bad fill valve or misdirected hose will spray around the inside of the tank. 
BTDT.


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## elbo (Sep 4, 2016)

if, after you find that the leak is really only condensation, you can stop it by going to any dedicated tropical fish store ( that means , not wal-mart ) and get a very low wattage submersible tank heater. remember , you only need to warm less than 2 gallons of water.If you get a low enough wattage heater, you wont need one with a thermostat. shouldn't cost but a few bucks check out amazon or read my next reply


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## elbo (Sep 4, 2016)

if, after you find that the leak is really only condensation, you can stop it by going to any dedicated tropical fish store ( that means , not wal-mart ) and get a very low wattage submersible tank heater. remember , you only need to warm less than 2 gallons of water.If you get a low enough wattage heater, you wont need one with a thermostat. shouldn't cost but a few bucks. Here's one from Amazon  "Marina Betta Submersible Heater for Aquarium" about $10


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 4, 2016)

I fixed it by adjusting the fill level.


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## jmr106 (Sep 4, 2016)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I think I got it.
> 
> What is the purpose of the overflow tube exactly?
> 
> ...




The overflow tube is for...say something happened to your fill valve and it goes whacky. It keeps filling up even after the float has been pushed up by the water and should tell the fill valve to turn off the water flow. A part breaks on it and it keeps filling the water in the tank nonstop. That water would reach the overflow tube and, instead of filling up so much that it started flowing out of the lid of the toilet tank, it would go into the overflow tube. The overflow tube also goes into the toilet bowl. So the water would keep cycling down into the toilet bowl. If you've ever poured a cup of water or bucket of water into a toilet bowl, it doesn't require a flush to make it go down. The pressure of the water and the toilet's design in general causes the excess water to flow out of the sewer pipe as if you flushed it. So this process keeps your house from flooding if the fill valve fails.

The purpose of the fill line...if I remember correctly, the code states that it should generally be about an inch below the top of the overflow pipe as a buffer zone. Not sure of the exact reason "why"...but I would reason that if you adjust it to fill nearly to the point of overflowing...any little bump/knock of the tank, a kid jumping on the floor, etc, could cause water to slosh around in the tank. Since it would be so close to overflowing into the tube, it would overflow and lose a bit of the water in the tank, which might cause the fill valve to kick back in and start filling back up. I've actually seen that issue before. Plus...it isn't necessary to have the water level filled to the brim of the overflow pipe in order to get a good flush. It really doesn't take that much water and would just be a waste.

I'm not quite sure how the newer fill valves work when it comes to spraying the water into the overflow and filling up the tank and bowl at the same time. It used to be that the little fill hose clipped onto the outside of the overflow pipe and filled up the tank by spraying water down into it directly. Now, they tell you to clip it so that it sprays into the overflow pipe and fills up the tank somehow by that method. At the same time, you can see some water going into the toilet bowl until it stops filling up. Yet the overflow pipe still has the same function. If water were to keep filling up the tank, that overflow pipe would save you.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 4, 2016)

The water in my toilet flows directly into the overflow tube. This means that there must be a hole from the tube into the tank that I can't see.

But back to toilet problems. I just looked at it and it was leaking out of the handle. The tank was almost filled to the top. I have no idea why. When the toilet initially fills after a flush, it fills to the fill line. Apparently, the tank has been filling on it's own for some reason.

I can manually make the tank fill by pushing down on the float adjustment screw. Does that offer any hint?


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## jeffmattero76 (Sep 5, 2016)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I think I got it.
> 
> What is the purpose of the overflow tube exactly?
> 
> ...


The purpose of the overflow tube is, as its name suggests, to direct water into the bowl and ultimately the drain line if something should happen and the water supply to the tank not shutting off. As the water builds up in the tank it goes down the overflow tube. In theory the overflow should be able to get rid of water faster than the supply can deliver water. The water level in the tank should never get above 1inch below the top of the overflow tube. Also, make sure that the small rubber hose is also shooting water down into the overflow tube. That helps to both clean and refill the bowl.


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## jmr106 (Sep 6, 2016)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> But back to toilet problems. I just looked at it and it was leaking out of the handle. The tank was almost filled to the top. I have no idea why. When the toilet initially fills after a flush, it fills to the fill line. Apparently, the tank has been filling on it's own for some reason.



Of course, as you know, that water shouldn't be anywhere near high enough to cover the handle inside. Mine is about 2-3 inches below the handle and would hit the overflow pipe far before reaching the handle, which would cause it to loop and keep trying to fill up as it drains. Sounds like something is wrong with your fill valve and possibly the overflow pipe is too long. Did you just move there or something? 


Pick a day when you have a good bit of time and drop by a Home Depot, Lowes, etc. For about $15 to $20 max, you can get a full kit with every kind of washer, bolt, etc, that you would need.. It has the fill valve, flapper, overflow pipe, new bolts/washers for where the tank joins the toilet, etc. Everything that you would need. Its like a tuneup for your toilet. Very easy to install, just can be time consuming.

You may as well check where the tank joins the bowl. Use a cell phone or cam to take pics of the bolts. I'll bet they are rusty.  There are only two bolts that go through the ceramic and tighten down to hold the tank on. There is only a simple seal that keeps all of the tank water from pouring out of the tank. A lot of people sit down and lean back pressing on the tank, but aren't aware that over time the bolts rust. When I changed outs a while back, one of the bolts had virtually rusted through. Those have to be changed after typically a high x number of years, particularly if the tank sweats from cold water that runs down onto the bolts constantly. You may not have any issues with that now, but if you're going to change one thing (sounds like the fill valve is having issues and I'd just replace it considering how cheap it is), you may as well change it all and not have to worry about anything else.

I took my whole tank off a few years ago, washed out all of the crud out, dried it, changed all of the washers, valve, flapper, etc. If I can do it, anyone else can.


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## slownsteady (Sep 6, 2016)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fluidmaster-PerforMAX-Complete-Toilet-Repair-Kit-400ARHRKP10/206478491

http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/toilet-repair/parts-of-a-toilet/view-all


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## Mastercarpenty (Sep 6, 2016)

The top of  the overflow tube must be below the opening for the handle, or a fill valve problem will flood the floor instead  of running safely down the overflow. Many 'universal fit' parts have the overflow long so you can use it in any toilet, but many DIY types figure that if it fits under the lid it must be OK. The overflow should optimally be about an inch above the water line in the tank, but anything between there and the handle will work.

The best way to find a leak on a toilet is to dab each area with a small wad of toilet paper one spot at a time, checking the paper for visible wetness between each spot checked. You can 'see' moisture like this that you can't see by eye or feel by hand. If condensation is a problem, first wipe the whole toilet down outside to dry it, leave it sitting idle for 10-15 minutes, then checking for leaks with the wadded TP. 

Phil


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## nealtw (Sep 7, 2016)

The last time I had water coming out of the handle hole, the top of the filler valve was leaking a spraying water..


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 5, 2016)

My toilet is still leaking from the handle. I know it's because the water fills up too high in the tank.

I tried adjusting the screw on the valve, but this didn't help.

Do you think I need a new valve stem?


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## slownsteady (Nov 5, 2016)

Have you watched it fill up with the top off? You should be able to see any problem with the fill valve, drain tube, float etc. since they are all plainly visible. If you aren't sure how it all works together, take the lid off a normally working toilet and watch how it should work properly. This is not rocket science.
If you are still having trouble after that, video it, post it on youtube and post the link here.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 6, 2016)

It happens randomly, perhaps once every few days. It's hard to watch something for that long.


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## jeffmattero76 (Nov 6, 2016)

Have you tried lowering the water level in the tank. That would be accomplished by turning a screw on the fill valve (far left in the picture) to effectively push the float to a lower level, so the water will stop at a lower level than it does now.
Another possibility is that the skinny tube that sprays water into the overflow tube is spraying it wildly instead of as a steady stream into the overflow. If so re-direct that skinny tube.


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## jeffmattero76 (Nov 6, 2016)

If you have to replace the fill valve they are cheap (around $8) and simple to replace.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 7, 2016)

jeffmattero76 said:


> Have you tried lowering the water level in the tank. That would be accomplished by turning a screw on the fill valve (far left in the picture) to effectively push the float to a lower level, so the water will stop at a lower level than it does now.
> Another possibility is that the skinny tube that sprays water into the overflow tube is spraying it wildly instead of as a steady stream into the overflow. If so re-direct that skinny tube.



I tried adjusting the screw previously. It didn't fix the problem.

The overflow tube sprays directly into the tube. Technically, there's a little bit that doesn't go in the tube, but I don't think that's what's causing the problem.

Do you think it's the fill valve? I'm going to replace that.


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## nealtw (Nov 7, 2016)

Take that picture with you when you go shopping, buy everything to rebuild the whole thing. The float should shut off the water at a set height. The overflow tub in the center should be just above the full height setting.

If that tube is higher that the flusher, problem #1
Valve not turning water off problem #2
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YMzEgk9e14[/ame]


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## slownsteady (Nov 7, 2016)

When water comes out from behind the flush lever, how much water comes out? Is it just a dribble or does it continue to flow? If you take the lid off the tank at that moment, where is the water level?
If everything was working well except for the fill valve, the problem should be consistent and when it goes bad the water flow should be continuous. I'm not sure I'm saying it correctly, but if something was basically wrong, what keeps the water from constantly flowing??


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## nealtw (Nov 7, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> When water comes out from behind the flush lever, how much water comes out? Is it just a dribble or does it continue to flow? If you take the lid off the tank at that moment, where is the water level?
> If everything was working well except for the fill valve, the problem should be consistent and when it goes bad the water flow should be continuous. I'm not sure I'm saying it correctly, but if something was basically wrong, what keeps the water from constantly flowing??



This problem is 2 month old, rebuilding will cost less than 40 bucks and take an hour or two.If he gets into trouble almost everyone here can help him.

When in doubt pull the tank and take it to the store and get the right parts.:thbup:


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 8, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> When water comes out from behind the flush lever, how much water comes out? Is it just a dribble or does it continue to flow? If you take the lid off the tank at that moment, where is the water level?
> If everything was working well except for the fill valve, the problem should be consistent and when it goes bad the water flow should be continuous. I'm not sure I'm saying it correctly, but if something was basically wrong, what keeps the water from constantly flowing??



It flows in a small stream continuously until it stops. When I take the lid off, the water is almost to the top of the tank.

What does this tell you?


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## slownsteady (Nov 8, 2016)

And is the top of the tube above the water level when that happens?


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## Mastercarpenty (Nov 9, 2016)

Toilet leaks can be he hardest things to track down so my usual approach is to rebuild the whole bugger and know it's done. That's cheap and easy enough for almost anyone to do, but if you can't, then the best tool for finding the leak is right beside the toilet- toilet paper. It will show the least wetness so wipe everything dry then use the TP to hunt with. Any significant leakage will show up in 15 minutes or less. 

After having dealt with too many disasters from the bowl fill tube coming loose and splashing or spraying water which goes outside the toilet I've changed my techniques there. The new tube is always overlong so I stuff the bugger in it's entirety into the overflow pipe. It will hit the tank lid if it tries to come out and I've never had a problem with doing this. The only reason it's normally clipped up high is to prevent backflow into the supply lines (siphon break). If you think about this the only way this could happen is if the overflow tube fills with water and with it being totally above the bowl it can't experience that even if the bowl overflows because you're still above that level. So the only possible siphon scenario would be if the overflow tube were to clog (which I've never seen or heard of happening) and then it would be tank water, not bowl water, involved. And while not recommended, tank water is clean enough to drink in an emergency. Plus once the overflow tube siphons dry you'd only have a few ounces of tank water involved at worst- hardly an issue at all. 

Toilets are poorly designed devices the plumbing trade stays with as-is for no good reason. The tank and bowl should be cast as one piece (and some have been made that way) which then leaves only one place above the base which can leak- the fill valve gasket. The overflow tube is always the correct length since it's built in so it can't leak at the handle. Only the flapper, fill valve & gasket, and wax ring can leak liquids making for easier diagnosis and repair. More proof of the validity of the K.I.S.S principle and just another reason I generally dislike doing plumbing work. 

Phil


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## jeffmattero76 (Nov 14, 2016)

Spend $8 and 10 minutes and replace the fill valve. If the overflow tube is above the level of the water you will also need to buy a flush valve for another few dollars and maybe 20 minutes to put it in. After installation, adjust the float on the fill valve so that when full, the water is 1 inch below the top of the overflow tube. Done correctly the water level will never get as high as the handle.


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## slownsteady (Nov 14, 2016)

jeffmattero76 said:


> Spend $8 and 10 minutes and replace the fill valve. If the overflow tube is above the level of the water you will also need to buy a flush valve for another few dollars and maybe 20 minutes to put it in. After installation, adjust the float on the fill valve so that when full, the water is 1 inch below the top of the overflow tube. Done correctly the water level will never get as high as the handle.


We've been down this road before, as you can see from previous posts. OP says the problem is intermittent. That wouldn't be the case if the overflow tube was too long, unless there's another factor, like something sticking.


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## jeffmattero76 (Nov 14, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> We've been down this road before, as you can see from previous posts. OP says the problem is intermittent. That wouldn't be the case if the overflow tube was too long, unless there's another factor, like something sticking.


Slownsteady - I understand. However, i cannot understand how the water level can get high enough to leak out of the handle unless the top of the overflow tube was higher than the handle hole. If the overflow tube was lower thsn the handle hole, i would expect that, if the fill valve was stuck open, the excess water should go down the overflow tube. I always thought that toilets were designed to not allow any more water into the tank than the overflow tube could handle. 

The intermittant could be explained by having an overflow that is too high, but the fill valve only getting stuck open intermittently.


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## slownsteady (Nov 15, 2016)

Yes, I think we agree. I was just pointing to the fact that several previous posts mentioned the overflow tube.

New thought: if the fill valve isn't sealed well at the top, it could be spraying water. And maybe that sometimes happens to spray water on the back of the flush handle.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 20, 2016)

Trying to install the new fill valve...

I can't turn the water off at the toilet because I can't turn the valve closed.

I had to find the meter outside. I can't find how to turn it off there either. I'm hoping it's my meter and not my neighbors. It has two meters that say "gallons" on it so I think the box houses both.


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## slownsteady (Nov 20, 2016)

Check at the point that the water enters your house; usually there is a shutoff there. Or follow the pipes wherever they are visible and you may find a shutoff for a portion of the house...hopefully the bathroom is on that portion.
If you have to shut off at the meter, here is the valve handle:


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 18, 2017)

Wow back to this problem. I thought it had taken care of itself, but it started again a day after the hurricane. No idea if the hurricane is related or not. I don't think that it was.

I know it's not the adjustment screw because I turned it all the way high and all the way low. At low, it's slightly below the water line marked on the tank. At high, it's several inches higher than the marking, but not high enough to leak out of the handle.

I found out how to turn the water off to my house without going to the meter so I can do that if needed.

The overflow tube is higher than the handle, so cutting a few inches off the tube would solve the problem. But this isn't really the root of the problem, though. That's not curing the problem, it's just curing the symptoms. Any idea what it might be?

It happens intermittently so it's hard to watch, but I left the lid off so I can see it if it happens.


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## nealtw (Sep 18, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Wow back to this problem. I thought it had taken care of itself, but it started again a day after the hurricane. No idea if the hurricane is related or not. I don't think that it was.
> 
> I know it's not the adjustment screw because I turned it all the way high and all the way low. At low, it's slightly below the water line marked on the tank. At high, it's several inches higher than the marking, but not high enough to leak out of the handle.
> 
> ...



There is a float that turns off the water at a set height, sometime with old brass ones you would get a leak and the toilet would never stop. The overflow is there to protect you from floods so it should be below the handle hole.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> There is a float that turns off the water at a set height, sometime with old brass ones you would get a leak and the toilet would never stop. The overflow is there to protect you from floods so it should be below the handle hole.



Okay. So it is most likely a problem with the fill valve not stopping for some reason. (It is a newer-style plastic valve). So if I changed the fill valve, it would probably take care of the problem.... but I could also avoid having to change the fill valve just by cutting a few inches off of the overflow tube?

And if I wanted to save on my water bill, I should change the fill valve.

Is this correct?


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## nealtw (Sep 18, 2017)

Did you check it for adjustment possibilities. They really are easy to change out.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Did you check it for adjustment possibilities. They really are easy to change out.



Do you mean the adjustment screw? Yes I checked that.

What should I cut the plastic overflow tube with? PVC cutter not working.


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## nealtw (Sep 18, 2017)

Turn off the water and flush so you are not working in water. A hacksaw blade is handy in tight spaces.
The blade on my jig saw will turn to a sideways possession, pretty handy


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> turn off the water and flush so you are not working in water. A hacksaw blade is handy in tight spaces.
> The blade on my jig saw will turn to a sideways possession, pretty handy



10-4

.....


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Turn off the water and flush so you are not working in water. A hacksaw blade is handy in tight spaces.
> The blade on my jig saw will turn to a sideways possession, pretty handy



Okay I cut the overflow tube so it should never leak out the handle again.

But do you know the root of the problem of why the fill valve was overfilling in the first place?

When I flush the toilet, water enters the tank from the bottom of the fill valve, and it also sprays water out of the hose into the overflow tube. Does that offer any hint?

In the working toilet that I have, water does not spray out of the hose into the overflow tube when I flush.


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## nealtw (Sep 18, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Okay I cut the overflow tube so it should never leak out the handle again.
> 
> But do you know the root of the problem of why the fill valve was overfilling in the first place?
> 
> ...



I think most sprew in the tub. that is what it is for It is what tops up the toilet bowl level at the end of the flush.
If you still have a problem. Undo the water feed undo the next nut and go buy a new valve it is that easy.:thbup:


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## maxdad118 (Sep 20, 2017)

I'm no plumber but a diy dude, but could there be a pinhole leak in the fill hose? Bring intermittent, to me, sounds also like it's working but not always like something is binding? Or the fill hose sprays in different locations at different times?? Like it may not be secure? Just giving thoughts...was it resolved?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Sep 20, 2017)

maxdad118 said:


> I'm no plumber but a diy dude, but could there be a pinhole leak in the fill hose? Bring intermittent, to me, sounds also like it's working but not always like something is binding? Or the fill hose sprays in different locations at different times?? Like it may not be secure? Just giving thoughts...was it resolved?



I cut the overflow tube so it should stop leaking out the handle.

Is the fill valve still working over time? I'm not sure. I haven't really sat around and listened for it.


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