# popping noise



## Tony

Last july I moved into a house built in 1978. As winter approached I notice that there was a popping noise from ceilng to floor especially in the early mornings. A went online and got some info as the floors started to squeak and I just noticed that the floor joist came loose from the rim joist. An engineer came out and gave no real solution. Whats going on and how can I fix it?


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## Aceinstaller

define "came loose"

if it is sitting on the bottom sill plate, you might consider some long screws or possibly a joist hanger from your local hardware store.

need detailed info for detailed advice


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## oldslowchevy

seeing how you live in mass i will tell you what is happening as the same thing happen to me when i lived in great barrington your home has a color on it(mine was dark blue)i am just taking a guess at this and as the sun comes up on a cold morning the sun is making your home expanad (nails go POP)and in the eveings if you lisen close you will hear a creak(home is now contracking)most times the nails go both in and out with this but sometimes the nails only go out  and have to be hammered back in place.this is only a guess but that does happen though it isn't very common


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## inspectorD

Is this a south facing wall with many window's.
What type siding do you have? Is it aluminumn?
Do you have foundation cracks in this area of the joist?
Why didnt the engineer have a clue? Get an engineer who is also a home inspector and you might have a better explination. Someone like that can tie all the systems together.Generally an engineer is only a structural or specific trade engineer.

Do you see any bugs?
InspectorD


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## Tony

by came loose, I mean the joists sit is sitting on the sill plate and is roughly 1 inch away from the band board.


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## Tony

thanks for the info


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## Tony

the wall is west facing, vinyl siding and there is a small foundation crack in the area and there are no bugs.


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## Aceinstaller

tony,

take a long close look at the rim joist from the exterior and interior of the home.  is it the rim joist moving to the exterior of the home off of its original spot on the sill plate?  

or is it from movement or shrinkage of the floor joist pulling the end of the floor joist towards the interior of the home?

If it is the movement of the rim joist.  you will probably see a slight buckle in the exterior right at the spot that you are describing.  if this is the case, take a siding removal tool, remove the siding in the area effected.  then hammer the rim joist back into original position.(you might have to sink some 16 penny nails into the floor joist that it has separated from to pull it back in.) then screw in some angle brackets from the basement to the rim joists and the floor joists along the entire wall that is having problems.  replace the siding, and walllaaaahhhh.

take care of the foundation crack with a proffesional that will driil and fill the crack with epoxy resin designed for such occasions.


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## Square Eye

Tony said:
			
		

> by came loose, I mean the joists sit is sitting on the sill plate and is roughly 1 inch away from the band board.



WOW!

I wonder if it was just a bad cut? Some framers will leave a mess that they think you will never find. If the cut is just short, there is no perfect solution. A splice on both sides would help. I wonder if the floor could be expanding enough make the popping noise there. The floor is attached to the rim joist. If the floor joist is close enough to the edge of the green plate, there could be enough movement to cause a noise. The floor joist could be crushing the inside edge of the green plate. OR, the floor joist could be crushing under the load due to the lack of integral support from the rim joist.

You might have a pro to look at it if you can't tell what caused the short joist.


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## inspectorD

What kind of heat do you have?
Is there a door in this area?
Do your exterior walls have a slight bow on the outside. You will see this if you look down the wall. Where there are no windows or doors in the way it will show up easier.
Is there any sign of crushing of wood at these areas?
I'm on the same page as SQ Eye, I think if it is only one joist that is short it was installed short.
If a couple of joists are short then this is different.
We need some better descriptions of everything that is going on ,but I think we can at least narrow it down.

  
InspectorD


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## K2eoj

In my area metal/strap wind bracing was popular in the 80's and 90's. These straps will make a popping noise when expanding or contracting. I built a house for myself in the 80's and put lots of extra strap bracing on it and got alot of extra popping noises. In the case of bracing making noise I don't believe there would be any real problems. 
In the case of your rim joist it could just be sloppy framing like some of the others have said. K2


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## Tony

I see a slight buckleon the outside. I neglected to let you know that there is a deck along the wall where the floor joist is off the rim joist. I had two people look at it and one said to screw through the deck band joist through the rim joist and into the floor joist from the outside. The other said to use and eye bolt and a 5 ton come along to pull the rim joist and floor joist back together and then install joist hangers????


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## inspectorD

Sounds like you have a long term problem occuring.
How high off the ground is your deck? How big is it? Does it have joist hangers.HOW MANT JOISTS ARE SHORT?
Is there any decay of wood in this area from the outside? Do you have some metal flashing at the deck and band joist connection?

If your deck is pulling more than one floor joist away from the band joist you WILL need a competent person besides the engineer you had look at it.
If they could not answer this question for you they are not qualified!!

Some engineers drive trains!!

InspectorD


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## Tony

I should have told you there is a deck where the joist are short. I put a level on the basement wall in the general area and it out of plumb.


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## inspectorD

Hey,, I love the Idea of anything and a 5 ton come along!!
Be careful of just scewing things back together,, that's where screwed up comes from.

Are your deck posts out of plumb?

I know 20 questions!!!!

InspectorD


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## inspectorD

Does the foundation have cracks or is there a doorway in the area under the deck, like a patio door?
Again,,,, is there any rot or decay?


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## Tony

The floor joist are off the rim joist the width of the deck. However the deck appears to be "propertly built" per the guy who came by.The deck is 15' x 10', it does have joist hangers on the 2' x 10' joist. A carpenter came by and said that thre was no eveidence of rot. he said the deck has no flashing and that there needs to be metal flashing, I asked to have ice and water shield as well. He said he would remove one deck board and a couple of pieces of vinyl siding to installflashing. He also said that whre he could he would he would install joist hangers on the inside. He also said he would lag-bolt the deck in other than the (3) places as it is now. he also noticed that the door leading to the deck has a loose sill so he will replace the door and any rot he should find once he removes the siding.???????


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## inspectorD

Without seeing this area, It sounds like rot.
With no flashing at the deck since 1978.The deck is pulling off the house. The nails holding the joists to the band joist are most likely gone.The heads of the nails and the exterior of the wood have probably decayed away.
Looking from the inside you may not notice it that much, but when your carpenter pulls the deck ledger off the house , it may be worse than you originally anticipated.
The good thing about it is you will finally get it done correctly(keep us posted).And no deck collapsed, that was most likely next.

The popping in the winter may have been the deck moving away from the house.From water behind the ledger board, Freeze ...thaw....wieght of snow on deck...wind... any other thoughts?

Let us know what the carpenter thinks is the fiX..

Inspectord


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## onyx

Tony said:
			
		

> Last july I moved into a house built in 1978. As winter approached I notice that there was a popping noise from ceilng to floor especially in the early mornings. A went online and got some info as the floors started to squeak and I just noticed that the floor joist came loose from the rim joist. An engineer came out and gave no real solution. Whats going on and how can I fix it?




I also live in a 'popping' house - although no obvious joist or framing reasons.
A large 1-story built in 1959 - we have been there for 6 years now - and the area above the master bedroom gives loud popping noises -especially late at night (I suspect as the house cools  ).  I have inspected from roof to crawl-space several times and find no obvious signs of settling or movement. I have been monitoring the plumb of walls and ceiling for the 6 years with no significant changes.  I read in another Forum that this noise is normal over time as wood dries and shrinks.


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## inspectorD

Sometimes it's nice to find out what the outcome is.....Onyx, do you have a metal roof? They tend to make loud 'gunshots' when they expand or contract with temperature changes.


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## noisyhouse

My house is ony 9 year-old, but 2-story. In early summer, hot afternoon sun and cold night makes "kaaa" sounds on the seocnd-floor, close to interior wall. I know it is normal, but it is creepy in the mid-of-night. 

Any cheat-sheet tips to reduce the nosie?


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## Square Eye

Screws through the floor are very effective. Not pretty, but they work. If you can peel back the carpet and pinpoint the location and cause of the squeak, a screw may do the trick. Occasionally, an interior wall will squeak where the nails fasten the bottom plate. Again a screw can fix this one too. Pull the baseboard and drive a screw at an angle through the drywall into the bottom plate and into the floor. 


I once put maybe 40 screws in a floor and it was still squeaking under foot. The homeowner thought I was just messing around or didn't know what I was doing. Finally, I realized that the water pipe was run right against the bottom of the floor joists. I stuffed a small piece of insulation between the joist and the water pipe and the squeak was gone. I hate working on a squeaky floor.




Tom in KY, my floor squeaks, I like it that way. Heh-heh.


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## theoldbriguy

I have had similar experiences to most on this thread.  I would hear noises coming from my walls.
I would normally hear them in late morning and then again late at night.  I especially heard them
as the sun would heat up the south side of my house on a cold day.  I could often cause the noises
to happen by slightly pushing on the inside (or outside) of my wall.  It was easier for me to cause
the sounds in late morning or late at night.  Once I got the walls to make the sound it was hard 
to get it to happen again right after.  I would push the walls every night before I went to bed (I know that's crazy).

In several areas of my wall, I removed the drywall to see if it was rodents or studs moving.
I had a very difficult time getting the anything to move from the plywood toward the inside of the house.
Then I moved to the exterior.  I had EIFS (Dryvit, Sto, Cynergy, etc.) cladding.  I removed some of
the cladding (I know this is odd, but I was desparate to find the cause of the sound).  I found out
that I didn't have any Tyvek in between the styrofoam and the plywood (in my case OSB).
I was able to reproduce the sound by rubbing the styrofoam against the OSB.  So then I was pretty sure
it was just the styrofoam against the wood making all the noise.  I was not sure why my walls were
abnormally noisy.  We would be laying in bed and hear popping noises like there was drive-by
shooting going on.  I believe someone did a poor job installing the Dryvit or something.  There were
fairly large gaps in between the styrofoam boards (about 1/8 inch, when there should be no gaps).
Also someone told me that mesh used was cheap.  It was odd because I could get the noise to occur
pretty much anywhere around the house, although it happened the most where the sun would heat it up.
It was all about the thermal expansion and contraction of the Dryvit system causing movement and rubbing
of the styrofoam against the OSB.  I could tell it was the whole system moving because the noise would
occur throughout the entire wall and not just one area.  Sometimes you could hear it start to move
and then the rest of the system would move.

I ended up paying a bunch of money and replacing my Dryvit with cedar and brick.  Since we removed the
Dryvit, the noises are completely gone.  If you are experiencing similar sounds I would almost 
guarantee that it is the expansion and contraction of your house cladding (whether it be Dryvit or 
vinly siding or anything that spans the wall in large areas).
The good news is that it is a just an annoyance and your house isn't about to collapse (which I thought
that mine was ).  The bad news is that it will probably not be easy to resolve.
My suggestion would be to replace the cladding like I did (that was a ton of money).  The only other suggestion
is to somehow put in expansion joints in the cladding.  I believe the smaller the sections of cladding the less
overall movement and therefore less noise.  In Dryvit, you could make cuts and fill with 
expansion joints.  This is probably a really bad suggestion because it is just more places that water can get 
behind the Dryvit and cause you worse problems (that is why I didn't do it).
Believe me, I wish I had a cheap solution to give you, because I would have used it myself.
Anyways, I hope this post helps people out because I googled this topic more than I have ever googled anything
in my life and I could not find any quality information on this.  I just keep winding up on pages that told me
that I had squirrels or rodents in my walls.  These noises were going to be the death of
me if I did not get to the bottom of it, so I hope the next person can use this information.  

Good Luck,
Brian


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