# Weeping tile installation



## Jungle (May 16, 2014)

I'm thinking of having the basement excavated by a local guy with his mini-ex ($500.) I am trying to figure out the best way to do weeping tiles.

1) Weeping tiles should be under the footer. These seems to be the problem with most of the weeping tile repairs on youtube. The water will get into the footer and wicks into the rest of the foundations.

I am thinking i will need a 6" slope for every 25' side of foundation. So the weeping tile will end 1 foot bellow the foot +4" for the pipe. 16" bellow the footer he will need to excavate?

At that point it would connect to solid pipe and head to the ditch by roadway.

Also it seems some people put a layer of plastic under the weeping tile?

2) Would you install access pipe? Maybe at this point would be best and at the start and at highest point. I think a solid pipe that goes up along foundation with a t-intersection at the bottom, then connect to the filter pipe.  I guess the idea is that you can sleep out the weeping tile in 10 years if it is blocked up?

3) how long will 1'x1' of gravel take to huff 100 feet around the foundation?  Should i get the mini-ex guy back?

wrong:


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## slownsteady (May 16, 2014)

> how long will 1'x1' of gravel take to huff 100 feet around the foundation? Should i get the mini-ex guy back?



You'll need the machine operator to come back to fill the ditch anyway. If you plan properly - and you have the guy for the day- you could get both done on the same day.



> Would you install access pipe? Maybe at this point would be best and at the start and at highest point. I think a solid pipe that goes up along foundation with a t-intersection at the bottom, then connect to the filter pipe.



I put in a "cleanout" when i did my weeping tile. I haven't had to use it yet, but I imagine one day it may come in handy. In the meantime, it has caused no problems.


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## Jungle (May 16, 2014)

Watch this guy seems to say that weeping tile not bellow the footers is a common problem...

/watch?v=LeOncNTRB20


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## nealtw (May 16, 2014)

On new construction up here they use a solid pipe that comes with holes in it, load in the gravel and put some felt on top of the gravel to filter the dirt. Use "Y"s for clean outs so you can shove a hose down and it will go in the direction the water is going. Usually the guy with the hoe does this work, ask him how much. they do it so fast it will make your head spin. If you think some times you would like to drain surface water away, run a second solid pipe for that at the same time.


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## slownsteady (May 16, 2014)

> If you think some times you would like to drain surface water away, run a second solid pipe for that at the same time.



good point. I dropped a second pipe -this one solid - in the ditch and routed my downspout to it. It makes a long invisible run well away from my house.


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## slownsteady (May 16, 2014)

> Watch this guy seems to say that weeping tile not bellow the footers is a common problem...
> /watch?v=LeOncNTRB20



I'm not sure i could watch this guy for more than a few minutes again. He makes some good points, but how can you believe a guy that needs that much editing to get through a paragraph.

Neal, you should take a look at the video. He seems to be tearing out exactly what you suggested putting in.


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## nealtw (May 19, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> Neal, you should take a look at the video. He seems to be tearing out exactly what you suggested putting in.



I can agree and disagree with a bunch of what he says. I dug up the outside to waterproof the outside of the foundation, why wouldn't he just run a new pipe outside and call it done.
As far as going below the level of the footing, he makes it sound good but the old pipe was draining water that was getting within 4" of the slab now he will be draining water a little deeper,what about the water below that.
If you are pumping out X amount of water at one level and then you dig in deeper, how much water will you be pumping then, and to what benifet.

I have argued before about the drain being on the outside should always be first choice and with real good drainage down the wall so the mud dosn't push against the wall.


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## slownsteady (May 20, 2014)

I thought the same thing; if you dig a deeper trench, then the water will always be below the pipe. He also seems to dislike PVC - I'm not sure why. But i don't think he ever shows what he uses.
This guy is simply using sales technique in place of trying to educate anyone.


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## Chris (May 20, 2014)

When we install these drains we dig the trench and then put filter fabric in first coming up both side then the rock and pipe and wrap it up like a burrito. It will keep a lot more dirt out of the rock and make for a longer lasting system.


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## Jungle (May 20, 2014)

I am still confused as to what is the purpose of weeping tile is?

Can we agree : Weeping tile plumbing system is intended for a flood situations. maybe once a year?

Otherwise people are using it as a plumbing solution for regular rain, excessive water around the foundation. Can we agree the weeping tile system as it is will not work for this problem, at least for not very long ? 

I am wondering the weeping tiles system may make the problem worse, because the water will be drawn through the grave to the pipe but then without enough of a flood it will just drain...bellow the footer! Exactly were i don't want it.
 But this is why you have to put a water barrier that goes under the pipe all the way up. It seems some people put plastic under the pipe and other don't? It seems the pipe should be designed with holes on the top half only.
If there is a big enough flood, it may fail again, again why would i want water ending up bellow the footer and slab?

The other solution is above the gravel could be 2'x2' of open cell foam to absorb any rain water. This would work as a filter too. I guess nobody has tried this.


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## Chris (May 20, 2014)

The pipe that we use only has a couple rows of holes all down the pipe so the bottom will still flow water. We also set the pipe on the bottom and then cover with rock or you have to wait until water fills the void before it starts draining. We mainly use this system for flood control. One of my mountain houses is the oldest house on the street and the other pads have all been built up so the street water flows through my property and threatens to flood the house, we put one of these around the house and it diverts the water pretty good. We don't have huge issues of ground water around here so most of the time we just slope the dirt away from the home and we are all good.


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## nealtw (May 20, 2014)

Today all basement holes are dug 10ft bigger than the house so five ft all around as the back fill is disturbed soil and surface water will make it's way to the bottom of the footing. You don't really want to any deeper than the bottom of the footing, as water in the soil under the footing is adding to ther support of the house in many older houses when they weren't so picky on soil conditions.
The last thing you want is to hold water in the soil, it just adds tons of weight pushing on the wall. You don't put polu under the pipe.


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## Chris (May 20, 2014)

Makes sense, we don't have basements here.


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## nealtw (May 20, 2014)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4_qZEEkuYA[/ame]
Keep in mind the gravelunder the pipe will carry water away for years before it plugs up and then the pipe really starts to work.
This guy appears to use poly over the gravel but it should be fabric or filter paper.


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## slownsteady (May 20, 2014)

> Can we agree : Weeping tile plumbing system is intended for a flood situations. maybe once a year?



Weeping tiles (you can call it a french drain if you like, I don't mind) are intended to carry excess water away from your foundation. The earth actually does a good job of absorbing and distributing water in most cases. But in the spring, during thaw, or a couple of days of heavy rain, even a dry basement may be threatened by the amount of water that the soil can't absorb. The word _flood _is a little misleading.



> ...because the water will be drawn through the grave to the pipe but then without enough of a flood it will just drain...bellow the footer!



If the ground is not saturated, this amount of water is not a problem. If the soil can't hold anymore water, it will find its way to the pipe and can flow away. Of course, if your foundation wall is porous, you have a bigger issue than just needing weeping tile. That's why you usually see some kind of integrated system of waterproofing the exterior wall, maybe adding a curtain drain and plenty of gravel while you have the trench open and you have access to the exterior of the foundation wall.



> The other solution is above the gravel could be 2'x2' of open cell foam to absorb any rain water. This would work as a filter too. I guess nobody has tried this.



Why anybody would want to trap the water in a big sponge right outside their house and let it stay there until who knows when....well, that I can't answer. I also have a hunch that the weight of the soil would crush that sponge pretty completely. And open cell foam rots too quick.


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## Jungle (May 21, 2014)

I don't know about that apple drain video.
He didn't wash the wall before the tar, how will it stick? Should be blue seal vapor barrier there i think too. This magic filter fabric will last how long before rotting?


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## slownsteady (May 21, 2014)

Yeah, the Apple Drain video isn't perfect. Any body viewing that would think you only have to dig down a foot. But if you have a basement......

Landscape cloth - Geocloth - can last for years. I'm not talking about the the stuff at your local big box garden center.


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## nealtw (May 21, 2014)

We see all kinds of stuff being done all in the same area for a bunch of reasons, Yes the wall should have been cleaned. If the wall has honey comb or small cracks the stick a poly to the wall while the coating is still wet. They use something black in a caulking tupe to cover all the holes where form ties held the forms together when the concrete was poored. If the soil is clay based the put a dimped sheet against the wall to give the water a path to the bottom.


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## Jungle (Jun 3, 2014)

I found out some more interesting info.
Gravel = no good
Why? Gravel will sink bellow plastic pipe unless you anchor it some how and still the gravel will be under there.
So one company says they use 3-4 big-o filter pipes instead.  Seems like a good plan. I can probably hand shovel the dirt back in when by hand? gravel would be a lot more work too. The pipes should be the same or better than the gravel to attract water. Maybe keep the middle one with the holes on the sides ? for the trickle water.

/watch?v=3s9PeRtpkN4


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## nealtw (Jun 3, 2014)

Not sure why you ask advice, you always do your own research until you find the one guy who agrees with some idea that you have.


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## Chris (Jun 3, 2014)

Gravel will not sink to below the plastic pipes. I install perf pipe underground in large commercial retention/detention systems all the time and it will lock together and not move. Gravel is the only thing you can backfill with that does not need to be compacted according to the municipalities and engineers I work for. Here are a couple pics of some of the larger type systems I have built and many are just perf pipe sitting in the middle of rock that is many feet deep. The only thing I would look for in rock is to get washed rock, it will be much cleaner and keep all that silt out of the system.


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## Jungle (Jun 3, 2014)

"Not sure why you ask advice, you always do your own research until you find the one guy who agrees with some idea that you have. "

It's not my idea. I've just learned this by searching the web. Seems like a good solution to me, perforated pipes act like gravel. My guess is you'll get longer life because you can clog 4 pipes now before need to be repair it vs just  one pipe. 

  That's why i bounce it on to you guys to see what you say. These building science is changing and improving all the time. I think you can see that the gravel can easily work it's way bellow the pipe and then start to pool up in bad way.

My other question is how many hours would it take a mini-ex to dig the foundations 25x25' and about 4' bellow grade?

I also found a deal on 2.5" polystyrene for the outside. Do you think 2.5" is enough or should i double it 5", will it make a difference?


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## nealtw (Jun 3, 2014)

The gravel alone will transfer the water, after years of pumping water out of my dads basement which just ran back in the city installed sewer lines and when we hook up to that we discoved water would run into the gravel around the sewer pipe. We built a sump around the sewer pipe and water drained into that gravel for the twenty years they lived there after that.

In new construction here they place 4" ridged foam either against the foundation to the height of the floor or on the flat under the slab around the inside against the foundation both 2ft wide.
When the do a pan slab which is pored as one foundation and floor they install foam on the outside, they also put a flashing under the house wrap and over the foam to keep the water out.
I don't know how they get rid of water that wicks up thru the concrete and usually finds its way out thru the exposed concrete between the siding and ground level.


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## Chris (Jun 3, 2014)

The problem with stacking pipes like you mention is that first there are voids in between them and second they can oval or collapse over time. If you are using thin walled drain pipe you will need the rock around it to help protect the pipe. Instead of using many pipes you should just upgrade from 4" to 6" or 8" or whatever size you feel is adequate. Like I said before the rock locks into itself and will help the pipes. We install all our new sewer pipe and storm drain pipe with a rock bedding and rock to a foot above to help keep the pipe round.


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## Jungle (Jun 5, 2014)

"The problem with stacking pipes like you mention is that first there are voids in between them and second they can oval or collapse over time. If you are using thin walled drain pipe you will need the rock around it to help protect the pipe. "

But there is nobody walking beside the house or heavy weight? The rocks may will cause the problem of crushing the plastic. Actually the gravel would be cheaper than buy 3 more pipes. So i might as well get the gravel rock hard pipe.
 I don't expect it to be in used from rain but only in the spring if snow is not removed from the house etc.
I wonder if the ditch in the front will be deep enough for the drainage? I guess dig down there a bit, the town shouldn't mind.

This is my situation now,

/watch?v=VEh9SS6R10E

Which is not good -bothers the allergies.  I think the blue skin and polystyrene sheets will be the main improvement. After all that i can scrub it all down the inside walls and floor with bleach and hopefully the problem will be solved complete. But it is hard to believe right now. Maybe a citrus greaser on the concrete?


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## mudmixer (Jun 5, 2014)

"Weeping tile", as you describe them are not, and not necessary for "floods" The operate 24/7 and reduce the moisture in the soil around and over them. They have been used for many centuries in various configurations.

Perforated pipe should be placed with bottom of the pipe slightly below the bottom of the footing.

Holes are placed in the bottom half to collect the moisture  in the backfill and surrounding soil. Permeable/porous material (2" thick) should also be placed on the drainage cloth before the pipe is laid. The location of the holes determines how low the soil moisture can be reduced.

The pipe/tile are laid horizontally in a collection are since water seeks it own level and naturally flows to a sump or a solid walled pipe that is sloped to carry the water to a lower area.

The pipe actually improves the life and stability of the soil because it eliminates the excess moisture that causes instability and high lateral pressures on walls.  Interior drain tile and in some cases reduce the upward pressure on a floor slab and reduce floor cracking, but the main use is to provide a stable dry basement.

I know builders that automatically install both interior and exterior drain tile on EVERY home they build because it is so cheap to do during construction. For many homes interior drain tile are cheaper than exterior if there are detached steps, patios and landscaping in place.

Dick


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## Jungle (Jun 9, 2014)

Okay that sounds good. Typar under the pipes. How much large gravel do i need 4 inches x 100 feet x 1 foot? But a 1" first then the pipe then 3" over it?

Do you think city will mind if i put the drainage channel going out to the ditch by the road? 
 I have to call the 1 call dig people, i should mention the channel i think..
I should use solid no holes pipe for that part going to the ditch?


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## Chris (Jun 9, 2014)

Jungle said:


> Okay that sounds good. Typar under the pipes. How much large gravel do i need 4 inches x 100 feet x 1 foot? But a 1" first then the pipe then 3" over it?
> 
> Do you think city will mind if i put the drainage channel going out to the ditch by the road?
> I have to call the 1 call dig people, i should mention the channel i think..
> I should use solid no holes pipe for that part going to the ditch?



You are going to have to account for the gravel around the pipe as well. How wide of a trench? If you figure a 1' wide x 100' long x 4" deep of solid matter would be 2.4 tons. It will likely take a bit less. 

You will have to talk to the city to see if they will let you connect to the ditch

Dig-a-lert 800-422-4133 is the number I call, pretty sure they are nationwide. It's a free service and required before you dig or if you hit something it will automatically be your fault. They are not going to care what you are connecting to, they are only going to ask you what you are putting in which is storm drain and they are going to ask you how you plan on excavating the area.

You will want to use solid pipe anywhere you are not going to have gravel around it.


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## Jungle (Jun 11, 2014)

So is 2-1/2" of polystyrene enough around the foundations? Or i can get 5" for $300 more?


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## Jungle (Jun 16, 2014)

I am thinking to make two exits for the weeping tile. One out to the ditch. the other to backyard. Can the weeping tile drain out to say 50' more of perforated pipe to the back yard and the water will just go to yard?
Seems better than relying on only front trench. Also less of problem of adjusting the pitch so 100' can drain. How much pitch for each 25' side of the house? 6"  

I am having the same problem with my gutter, 25' is too long and better to have two downspouts.
The perforated access pipes seems like a great idea. I could put the pipe near the trouble spots, were the gutter tends to leak. The pipes going straight up will suck ground water right away. With the access pipes it will be always easy to clean out too. Maybe 3-4 access pipes should be good.


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## slownsteady (Jun 16, 2014)

With two exits, if you don't get the slope right - one will become an entrance.

I'm not sure what you expect the vertical pipes to do. If they're open, then they will collect dirt and mess up your weeping tiles. I have a cleanout on mine, but it is capped.


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## nealtw (Jun 16, 2014)

On a bad day the down spouts will introduce more water around the foundation for that you should run solid pipe, a second one dosn't have to be as deep as the first. If you want to drain the ground around the downspouts use solid pipe but back fill with gravel so water can get down to the perimeter drrain.


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## slownsteady (Jun 16, 2014)

That's what the curtain drain should do (dimpled plastic). It allows a channel for water to drain down to the weeping tiles


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## slownsteady (Jun 16, 2014)

I think Neal is right. The weeping tiles are down at the bottom and a second pipe can have a direct connection to your downspouts - and an atrium drain in a low spot to carry off surface water. The second pipe should be solid until it is well past your drainage area.


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## nealtw (Jun 16, 2014)

If you are on a septic tank system I wouldn't run more water to the back yard.


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## Chris (Jun 16, 2014)

What ^ He said, I would not introduce any extra water to a leach field if you have one.


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## Jungle (Jun 17, 2014)

I'm not on a septic.  There used to be a septic which i guess is still in the yard. I assume weeping tile drain can't run to the sewer drain.   Or should i do it anyways, could it back up? 

The public ditch by the road is not gonna be deep enough. Maybe 1-2" feet i will have to dig down for the slope to work. Then a hole?  But there is huge ice and snow there in the spring! Now i read what you said about flowing back, maybe the ditch is out of the question. Big gravel 10' hole? Unless i snake the pipe to the right in front of the neighbors property bury in the ditch, there is good slope. That would work.

One discharge point. I got, plumbing is all about air. I could have two discharge points but separate the plumbing.


So how do i make the discharge point?  A deep gravel hole? The house is raised , the yard and the side and front are all sloped, only the driveway is more flat. Actually one problem is the old garage that was there and i will get the mini-ex guy to level this area because it was causing perhaps most of the problem with a big mound of sand that is still there.

 What if i use 10 ' solid pipe then 50' perforated then a large hole in the yard filled with gravel? Or what if the pipe then snorkeled up with screen on top? The water would just drain in the yard starting 10' away, which should be enough. Or add another branch drain pipe, like a septic system?


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## nealtw (Jun 17, 2014)

I would run a solid pipe for the down spouts to the ditch at an elevation that would work solid pipe and use a sump and pump to bring the lower water up to that pipe.


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## Jungle (Jun 17, 2014)

What's wrong with draining to a hole in the backyard? Or like a septic bed?

Today it rained pretty hard and yesterday too but the basement is dry. So the weeping tiles won't actually being used that much. I don't think cutting a hole in the concrete foundations is too practical at this point.


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## Chris (Jun 17, 2014)

You can drain to a pit or a leach field if you have the fall and the pit or field is large enough to handle the amount of water.


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## Jungle (Jun 17, 2014)

I was just reading that people do still connect backvalves.
Can this be installed outside of the foundation?


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## Chris (Jun 17, 2014)

You can do that to if your sanitation district will allow.


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## nealtw (Jun 17, 2014)

That would be a no in BC


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## Jungle (Jun 18, 2014)

Ok, great. I put into the septic field instead.



The next problem is the porch, which is a large block of concrete that has already separated, cracked away form the house foundations due to water damage. It is still fairly level. Would you try to slide the pipe through the soil bellow the porch or go all the way around? Same with the down spouts.  It's about 6' width.
I guess hammer a 2x4 through to the other side, or no weeping tile. I can't water proof the wall at this point... or maybe carefully clean out 2" from the wall and at least slide in some plastic dimple..?


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## Chris (Jun 18, 2014)

If you are going to connect your downspouts I would leave a 6" section of pipe out so the water has to fall into the other pipe and then have a good grate, I would go brass and not plastic so the fins wont break as easily, leaves in your sewer can back up easily and cause you lots of problems.

As for the backwater valve, we install them with a piece of 8" or so pipe coming up like a cleanout and put a box with lid on top of that so there is always access to the valve, they don't last forever so it is nice to be able to get to them.


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## slownsteady (Jun 18, 2014)

You said the house formerly had a septic system. If it is still in place, maybe you could use that for a drain field.


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## Jungle (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks some good ideas.

I am trying to get someone to excavate. One guys says 12 hours, i thought it would faster than that?


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## Jungle (Jun 19, 2014)

Now the guy at rent all convinced me i could DIY and rent a mini ex.

Can someone provide instructions on "How to excavate around foundation walls using a mini-ex?'

Is there any technique, should i put the dirt on tarps? What position should the machine be? How do i scoop right beside the walls? Youtube is no help. Which way should i put the dirt? I guess start hand digging around the gas and water, the sewer is way down...


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## nealtw (Jun 19, 2014)

http://www.bobcat.com/excavators/choosing
Look at the 45 and 180 degree for these 2 hoes


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## oldognewtrick (Jun 19, 2014)

I can see this becoming another thread topic soon...


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## nealtw (Jun 19, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> I can see this becoming another thread topic soon...



What's on your mind, he's digging a trench not a gutter.


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## Jungle (Jun 21, 2014)

Still wondering about the porch which is in the way. How do i install the pipes? Dig through to the other side? Maybe dangerous with massive slab of concrete. I assume there are no foundation for the concrete slab. Or do think there should be?
Seems to be a trouble spot in the basement near there too. Damn there is always another thing!


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## nealtw (Jun 23, 2014)

All the safety stuff that you need for underground mining.
When the dig a hole for a foundation they dig it big so five feet of dirt beside the wal cannot be trusted to be safe and stable, it may be but you don't want to trust it. So the deeper you go the wider you want the trench to be. 
The slab has to be judged for how well it will st if you end up trenched out  something 4 ft deep and something like 3 1/2 feet wide under the slab.
I would say the safest bet is to remove about three feet of it. If you do shore it up and dig under it back filling will be a problem.


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## Jungle (Jun 24, 2014)

So about a 3' trench?  I guess rain would be a problem i am waiting for some good dry weather.

 I was going to start with the hand digging around the spots. 

Here is the plan, i wonder do i put the access pipe just after the  before it?


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## nealtw (Jun 24, 2014)

Never hooked one up but I think you would want access to it like a small manhole or something. ??


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## Jungle (Jun 24, 2014)

I don't think it is good to have an air space that will just attract water. I assume it should work a long time, does the sewer really back up that far? 
I meant an access pipe to the weeping pipe just before the back valve and cap going up. That's gonna be a lot hand digging.
I guess rain will be a problem with the soil collapsing.


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## nealtw (Jun 24, 2014)

You want to be carefull when you are head down in a trench a little landslide is all that is needed to kill you.
Did you see on the show Dirtist jobs, where the sewer line at the street was plugged and the people at the bottom of the hill were on holidays. They came home to feet of sewer in the house.


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## slownsteady (Jun 26, 2014)

If you do rent a machine, take it out back and practice until you are comfortable. I have dug close to the house without a problem, but it takes 100% concentration, 100% of the time. My mind drifted for a second and I almost took out a column on my front porch. Luckily the machine controls were responsive.

The arm of the mini-ex is slightly off-center, so work with that side closer to the building. you will want to work from the far end and back up the machine as you go.
And I would consider doing the final layer of dirt - that is stuck to the wall - by hand after the trench is dug.


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## slownsteady (Jun 26, 2014)

It looks like you are draining to the left in your diagram. Maybe you could avoid the area under the porch and have the drainpipes exit on either side of it, then tee them together a little way downstream.


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## slownsteady (Jun 26, 2014)

If you have any doubt about the safety of the trench, you can shore up the sides with plywood and some boards. The boards would be horizontal and brace up against the building (like a truss)


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## Jungle (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks, some great tips. I figure 5 feet is not so dangerous. I imagine working with a guy in the ditch and guy on the mini ex is more dangerous.
It is calling for bits of rain everyday for the next week, so even the rental guy suggested i wait to it is dry.
I've taken the old cladding off. Man that stuff is expensive new, like $5 a sq foot. I think i should use hardie board. i can run it right down to the weeping tile as the final protector for the polystyrene. only $1.25 a sq foot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I am planning,

1) Pressure wash.
2) hydrological cement any cracks.
3) Rubberize water poof paint
4) 2.5" of foam glues on and the bottom edge
5) Plastic wrap
6) Hardie board all the way up to the vinyl siding. I wonder how i can attach the seams? Tuck tape everything i guess. Should stay one by the soil pressure.
7) then install the weeping pipes. Get ready for gutter drain pipes.
8) Order gravel
9) Get mini ex again or other type
10) Back fill half way then install gutter drains.
11) adjust grading so equal around entire house.
12) Layer of landscape fabric
13) Put 24x24" patio tiles on front and back so snow can be easily removed in winter.
14) fill edges with sand

That will be 20k sir! In reality it will probably only increase the property value 5-10k. See why working for other people is better than yourself.


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## nealtw (Jun 26, 2014)

Just a few thoughts.
Years ago I worked installing sewer pipe. I was on my hands and knees fitting a pipe together and just stud up when the side of a 4 ft ditch slumped in, I was backfilled to my knees and stuck and had to be dug out by others. Just a few seconds earlier I would have been in big trouble. Pay attention to water flowing from the sides of the ditch. The second guy is the guy that may have to save a life.

3) Rubberize water poof paint

Some materials are not compatable with foam

I would take a little different approach

I would forgo the waterproofing on the wall, glue the foam right to the concrete close the seams between the foam board with glue or foam rated caulk.
cover the foam with water proof membrane," not to expensive". just up to or just above the finished fill level.
If you have wood siding you would be able to slip a flashing up under it to direct water out past the foam board, with vinyl side you would have to re and re the bottom peice.
Another flashing above the top of the membrane
Then stocco the exposed foam between the flashing and ground level.
There is a much thicker landscape fabric that you can't get in box stores
http://www.rona.ca/en/foundation-waterproofing-membrane-0382009--1
http://www.bwgeotextile.com/dev/nonwoven-geotextile-fabric.html


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## slownsteady (Jun 27, 2014)

Remember that gravel goes under the pipe also. So you need to have it on hand before you lay the pipe. You're gonna make a pipe burrito, with fabric being the outside layer all around the pipe & gravel.


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## Jungle (Jun 29, 2014)

Blue seal, what i can tell it should keep the dampness completely out of the walls, if the foam is just glued, damp air might get in eventually, if the foam separates from the wall for example. $140 a pail it better be good. A strong vapor barrier.

I figure the weeping pipe is solid and will sit above the soil, i dug extra deep in some places. So there is a gap underneath, when the gravel goes on top it will just slide underneath. No?

I see the porch will not be possible, soil is very hard. I think i'll do the cement work, would really make a difference. I was gonna use the gap filler as glue when i put the foam over it. Are you saying the blue skin and polystyrene are not compatible? I'm consulting google.


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2014)

The rubber joint on the sewer pipe is normal when you join two different typs of pipe or when you can not spread the pipes to use the normal hub end. It shouldn't have been a problem but ??
When I said not compatable I was thinking you were using a tar type protuct on the wall that might affect the foam, just make sure you check what you are using.


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## Jungle (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi Neal, ya a guy is coming today to do the rest of the digging.
I will get him to excavate around the pipe and try the fix myself. 

-glue a length of ABS to extend the pipe, then the y join, then another short piece and the rubber gaskets, hopefully  it was a clean break i don't have to cut that stuff. (I think if you see the metal gasket there must have been no rubber used.)

This blue seal is water soluble and you made me check the instruction which was good, it says to apply it a thickness of 0.6" !
So one pail is only 150sq. I figure i will use a bit less above grade.

I wonder if there is any hope to excavate under the porch, looks really hard stone and rock.  It's too bad because there is a lot of muck around there.

I wonder if i should run out get this guy a poker rod right now? He has to dig 7'x3'x6' trench!

I will tell him to dig a 1 foot x 5" trench beside the footer.


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2014)

It looks like you have a coupling, not sure what the rusty part is but I would cut it back to insure a good joint.
http://www.missionrubber.com/Products/MissionEasternStandard.php


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## Jungle (Jun 30, 2014)

okay i did it, but a little problem...connection pipe is 1" to far right. I guess i didn't let the glue cure enough before i attached it the other end, but it wouldn't fit otherwise. Should i do it over? I won't get it in the other end anyways. I think it is alright. Tape makes it look bad but i just added it for extra protection. I tested it before the tape and it didn't seem to leak. The other tape is just temporary. I'll but some rocks under it. I could take the tape off and put some silicon around it for good measure?
I just want to know, did i commit a plumbing sin?


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## Jungle (Jun 30, 2014)

So i making a 6" x  8" trench measuring from the top of the footer. Then the burito shell, put the pipe in 2" high supported with a few rocks. Pour total 6" is enough? 2" will slide under the pipe. After 2" it will be 4"x15" wide to include the footer.  Is that enough? How many yards should i order, roughly 90' permitter. I guess 1 yard of drainage gravel would be enough. I have lots of rocks around. I heard this area was a gravel yard at one time.

Foundations are in good shape i might add. Even after power washing and some rain these days, basement is bone dry. Seems some walls were very sticky with algae.

And what is back fill actually? Just the old dirt? Add some aggregate


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## nealtw (Jul 2, 2014)

Don't trust the gravel to fall around the side put your gravel down and level it as best you can and lay your pipe, eight or ten inches above the pipe with gravel close up the cloth, adding a little gravel to the backfill dirt is great idea.
Gravel....If each foot of pipe will take one cubic foot of gravel, one yard will go 27 ft maybe 30 ft for a meter. !000 sq ft house has 140 ft of pipe = five meters. That's rough just change the numbers to fit your job.


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## Jungle (Jul 2, 2014)

The problem is the dirt is piled so high there is no way to get around with the skid steer.
So i'll just use the many rocks that are around. Put some gravel in and go down and shovel it bit in.

I guess the gutter pipe should sit right on top of it. 

I realize the gravel is an aggregate because it creates a bit air pocket around the foundations.

Some of the footer seems damaged so gaps around there. I am thinking hit with the gap foam first, then trim any extra and paint with the blueseal which is suppose to stick to foam.

I found a good web page that explains it. https://pro.homeadvisor.com/article.show.Foundation-Drainage.13702.html


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## nealtw (Jul 2, 2014)

They don't usually seal the footing as that is below the floor inside.


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## Jungle (Jul 2, 2014)

Really? might as well seal them with the gap fill and blue seal. Start the gravel there.

I guess i can use that same gravel for the bed of patio stones?
I better get some more gravel while have the skid steer handy.  I think 4' x 100sq ft, i'll work out a design... so what's that a yard and half all together?

How long do you think the back and the gravel will take? Maybe i can get the skid steer at 10am, then the next morning they can deliver the pea drive way gravel. Then i can do the drive as well in the same rental.


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## nealtw (Jul 2, 2014)

4' x 100sq ft, i'll work out a design... so what's that a yard and half all together?
sounds close


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## Jungle (Jul 4, 2014)

Well i washed the footers today. There are weird chunks of concrete and gaps in a few places.

I'm think it is better to put it on the footer, the old tiles are still bellow the foot, not easy to get out. I get the feeling the water will go towards that corner of the footer.





 Also since there is still not much water coming in, even with lots of washing right in holes etc. It is amazing how much dirt is in some holes, also the algae sludge on the one wall was no doubt the problem with the smell. 
 It maybe he did not pump the septic or add enzymes when they switched over and so it oozed around the foundation wall. Perhaps just bacteria build up and poor drainage.

So what should i do about these chunks, maybe the pic is not that good but it is about 4-6" high a few of them. 1) try and remove them, doubtful 2) put the pipe beside them 3) build corner pipe that goes around the chunks but keep close to the footer corner. 4) Put the pipe bellow the footer, beside the old tiles, means some more hand digging.


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## nealtw (Jul 4, 2014)

They have done what we call mono pour when you fill the footings and walls at the same time. We fill the footing first and wait a while for that to harden up but sometimes if the footing isn't set up, it will start to  push up out of the footing and that what you have with those lumps. We have had a fountain where the whole wall full of concrete come out like that, just go around them.

Your wall will not leak now because the water has an easier path. Water filled dirt pushing against the house could be tons of pressure and if the water gets stuck there it will find away thru concrete.


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## slownsteady (Jul 6, 2014)

Neal's right. By installing the drain, you are relieving the pressure and giving the water a way to go. It's really all about relieving the pressure. The pipe does not have to be perfectly flush to the house. The gravel will fill those voids and allow the water to get to the pipe. Be generous with the gravel - make a large enough drain area so the water has a path to the pipe.


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## Jungle (Jul 6, 2014)

I've put 2 pails of blue skin on. I mostly paint to the grade. 

Do you think i should get another $140 pail? 

Consider i will glue foam eps sheets on there and cover with 10mm poly, probably not necessary and i am tired of painting chemicals right now. I'm thinking it is enough.


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## slownsteady (Jul 6, 2014)

Hope you nailed that back door shut for now:2cents:


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## Jungle (Jul 6, 2014)

It's hard to close that door and walk the plank at the same time. Yesterday i forgot and about 10 flies got in.
Turns out the old foam board Stan used in the attic was code board for the foundations, there was a bunch in the basement i didn't have a use for, better not to be in the house. So i've just clued the old pieces on, looks like R10 after all.


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## Jungle (Jul 6, 2014)

I'm thinking the 6mm plastic is 10' - so 6' then just run the rest 4' up the bank, creating a trough.  Bad idea? Maybe just a 2' lip?

Then the rest of the gravel and fabric go inside.

 "Peat retains up to 20 times its weight in moisture, and releases water slowly as plants need it."

Why not get a yard of peat moss and mix it in?


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## slownsteady (Jul 8, 2014)

> "Peat retains up to 20 times its weight in moisture,



Isn't the whole point of this to get the moisture away from the house??????



> I'm thinking the 6mm plastic is 10' - so 6' then just run the rest 4' up the bank, creating a trough.



Sounds like a funnel to me.


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## Jungle (Jul 8, 2014)

Ya i cut the plastic off. Used the landscape fabric.

 It's hard putting it all back with skid steer, it start to rain really hard too, so i left for tomorrow. Could have order more gravel would have made it easier. But it is almost finished now. 
I installed all the weeping tile and drain pipes in about 2 hours once i all the pieces. 

It's tempting to demo their shed with skid steer. Why shouldn't i? It's my property. better take it slow and cut it with the circular saw, but why should waste my time? They have big concrete pad there too and a big freezer in the bloody shed.  Old lady is a crack pot and told me get lost when i mentioned she has to move the shed.  Well i think over time it will be easier. But how much patience should i give to these people?   There are already nasty, certainly won't get much better.


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## nealtw (Jul 8, 2014)

If it is not tied down, put a couple timbers on the side of ot and push it.


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## Jungle (Jul 8, 2014)

I got the 'letter' from the surveyor today. It is overly vague and then says if you give me $600 more i will be less vague. "There are some features over the line."
Is this guy f' serious? $1000 and he can't even write a decent letter? 
Last year he say there are 'unique features to my property.' Like the 57 feet? What unique feature, i get a crazy neighbors included. He also said i would get all the information to put up all the fences. Seems those documents have gone.


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## nealtw (Jul 8, 2014)

Sounds dumb enough. Take him to small depts court for all the docs that you have paid for, don't forget to include filing fees and big bucks for your time.
Unless he gave you a written quote that stated there would be different charges for docs. Check with the provence or feds to see if he can do this.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-99-142/page-2.html


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## Jungle (Jul 9, 2014)

Hi Neil, there is an association. I talked to them last Sept. they were encouraging to file a complaint. There are all powerful because they can take the license away. I think the neighbors will slowly come around.  What else can they do? I've put my temporary fence up today.  I might get some big limestone rocks delivered to the front of the driveway if they persist.  I couldn't get the concrete pad off too easily so i gave up.


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## nealtw (Jul 9, 2014)

If you are sure you are right just make the changes like fence or what ever, let the neaghbours deal with serveyors and lawyers if they don't like it. Get some orange paint and paint a line on the shed where your line is, up front and back and across the roof and then on your side of the roof write, will be cut off on, whatever date. Give them a little time to act on moving it or proving you are wrong.
Even if they get a stop work order, they would have a limited time to resolve the issue. But the expences would be theirs if they choose to go that route.
Of coarse we want to see pictures of the art work.


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## Jungle (Jul 10, 2014)

I think your underestimating the low level of people that around here, just like i did. It looks like an okay neighborhood, nice town. But when you realize every house is filled with these poor and angry families with middle aged kids bumming around. They not even so poor, just spend it on nothing. Actually the town has a lot of tourist right now, the water front is like a different world.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 10, 2014)

While everything is open you can spray it with water and test your system rather than waiting a day for the water to diffuse down through the finished landscape.

A bucket will keep track of how much water landed on the area wetted.  In one minute with a garden hose you can deliver ~a cubic foot of water, 1" deep over a square yard or so.  A sprinkler will take longer to deliver your 7.5 gallons.

BTW, you can choose to believe only some of what you read but you ought to know why you are believing it and not believing the rest.


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## Jungle (Jul 12, 2014)

Do you think i should use the pressure wash on the basement floors? Maybe too much water. 
This cleaner might be good? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




I'm thinking finish the basement with dimple platon and plywood. Ceiling is only 6 feet high is the prob.


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