# Weird Manual Transfer Switch Issue



## pedaldoc (Jun 27, 2015)

Wired  new manual transfer switch for my generator today. it's a 
*Reliance Controls 30-Amp (4-Prong 10-Circuit) Indoor Transfer Switch - 30310A*

it works great it was super easy to install. here's my basic install
ignore this next part if you're not interested, skip to after the dashes

connect green ground wire to one "neutral" rails. connect white neutral to same or other rail. In my case both "neutral" rails had white wires connected to them but one of them had all of the bare copper ground wires also. So I chose that one for my green wire and the other for my white.

now you remove the black wire to the breaker you choose , replace that with a red wire from the switch and tie your old black wire to their black wire labeled with the same letter as the red you just inserted.

repeat this x10 and you're good.

============================
installed without issue. tested all 10 circuits in LINE mode, power to all ten circuits from city power, as expected. switch each circuit to off. Power lost to each circuit. Switch to GEN and each circuit is off, until generator started then all powered up BUT ONE.

checked my wiring, all is correct. plugged in a light and went through all variations of LINE, OFF, GEN and all works except hen on GEN then nothing on that outlet (plan is for it to run my fridge, but it should run my lamp easily). ran the generator on that plug only and with other 9 live as well.

So, I wondered if it was that particular on/off pole on the transfer switch box. so I swapped it from pole D to pole E and retested. Same issue. so it's not the transfer switch because pole D works now with a different circuit but pole E won't power that outlet either. Now D and E are on the same leg of the switch but everything else on that leg works.

so my thoughts are 
1. somehow a bad breaker in the fuse box. works fine without the transfer switch but something isn't working with it?
2. grounding issue? again the other 9 poles are working fine so not sure it's that. but it is something with that circuit and that plug.

its a 20amp breaker and I've got it on a 20amp on the transfer switch.

any ideas?


thanks

Shawn


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## slownsteady (Jun 27, 2015)

just guessing but, is there a GFCI outlet on that run?


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## pedaldoc (Jun 27, 2015)

not that I'm aware of. but I'd think if that was it, and it was tripping with generator then as soon as I switched back to LINE it wouldn't work without me resetting the GFCI. right? and that's not happening. I have other GFCI circuits on others poles and they are working.


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## pedaldoc (Jun 27, 2015)

i'll look again quickly, it's in my utility room and there is a GFCI in that room but I don't think it's on that circuit. and again. it's not tripped as best I can tell.


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## slownsteady (Jun 27, 2015)

Makes sense. You can scratch that thought.


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## pedaldoc (Jun 28, 2015)

so I played around a bit more today. double checked my wiring and moved my green "ground" wire over to the other neutral bar as the instructions said (not sure it really matters since they are connected with a bridge between the two bars.)

I do have a little plug in tester for the outlets and . the 2 outlets on that circuit tested "good"

interestingly the only 2 things on this circuit are my 2nd fridge and a washing machine. but despite that fact, no GFCI on that circuit at all. there is a GFCI in the room but it's on another circuit that covers the light switches and one plug over a sink. would've thought a plug sitting behind a fridge and right next to washing machine water supply would warrant a gfci?

oh well, I guess it's easier for me to troubleshoot this way. I'll call Reliance tomorrow and see if they have any ideas.


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## slownsteady (Jun 28, 2015)

So you ruled out a bad breaker on the transfer switch. May not be bad, but may be tripping for some reason. It could be an overload on that leg.
Did you notice if the transfer breaker is tripped on the bad circuit?


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## pedaldoc (Jun 28, 2015)

it doesn't appear to be tripping the breaker on the transfer switch. 
Also I switched the circuit to a different pole on the transfer switch from pole D to pole E and had the same results but now on pole E. Pole D is now working but with a different household circuit and I'm still a no-go on Pole E. so I guess that means it's not just one switch or breaker.

as for an overload. I switched everything off on the transfer switch except that one circuit. I also tried it with just and LED worklight so the load was minimal. and then I also tried it with just one similar load on the other leg. same result.


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## hornetd (Jun 29, 2015)

pedaldoc said:


> it doesn't appear to be tripping the breaker on the transfer switch.
> Also I switched the circuit to a different pole on the transfer switch from pole D to pole E and had the same results but now on pole E. Pole D is now working but with a different household circuit and I'm still a no-go on Pole E. so I guess that means it's not just one switch or breaker.
> 
> as for an overload. I switched everything off on the transfer switch except that one circuit. I also tried it with just and LED worklight so the load was minimal. and then I also tried it with just one similar load on the other leg. same result.



Have you checked the continuity of the neutral pathway through the transfer switch?  Plug a long extension cord into the outlet that you are trying to power through the transfer switch and check for continuity between the long straight slot and the Neutral Buss Bar of the normal panel enclosure.


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## pedaldoc (Jun 29, 2015)

*RESOLVED

**OK so I called reliance and spent some time on the phone with them. very good support.*

As we started testing, we had no power through the E circuit with the generator on. so it was the switch.
 then to find the cause.  tracing my wiring back I evidently never fully switched D-E (and they may have been swapped partially in the beginning, that or in all the swapping I changed it but never changed it fully back)
so while my plan was good in troubleshooting the switch, my execution was poor. So I straightened out the incorrect wiring. anyway with it correctly wired it was apparent the E circuit was bad.

So they agreed to send me a new breaker and switch and told me ow to troubleshoot when the parts arrived. He tells me the box is meant to be user serviceable and it's easily done even though mine is not a surface mount. 

Hearing this I immediately pop the face on the case and find that the common neutral running between the breakers had popped loose on circuit E. I'm so excited at this point I can't hardly put it back together to test it.

it works!!
they are still sending me the parts as back-ups but problem solved.

THANK YOU everyone who helped me work through this. The benefit is now I have a much better understanding of this box/switch and feel much more confident should something happen in the future.

in the image below it is the bottom left breaker, you'll see the popped spade connector​


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## slownsteady (Jun 30, 2015)

Excellent! And we all learned something.


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2015)

I don't like how all those wires go thru the hole without a gromet!!


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## hornetd (Jun 30, 2015)

nealtw said:


> I don't like how all those wires go thru the hole without a gromet!!



I'm with you on that.  Reliance couldn't spare the Five Cents for a snap in grommet for that hole?

That is only one of the reasons that I do not like most of the individual circuit transfer assemblies that are marketed today.  

When a client asks about them I try to get them to consider a main breaker interlock paired with a generator breaker tie down.  When I install those the client can choose any load in their home as long as it is within the capacity of the generator they are using.

Many of the interlocks are not without flaws either.  Some are so lightly built that they can be bent with just one hand.  The ones that install on the cover are completely defeated by the removal of the cover.  I would love to see those installed with a cut out template to make that portion of the cover a separate assembly so that the removal of the cover would leave the transfer interlock in place.  

I would love to have the option of installing a completely separate dead front over the main lugs of residential panels but such panels are not marketed in the United States.  I have been told by electricians that have worked in Canada that a separate main lug dead front is the norm there.


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2015)

We may have different codes but I doubt we have different hardware.


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## hornetd (Jul 1, 2015)

nealtw said:


> We may have different codes but I doubt we have different hardware.



Do the panels in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs that does not come out when the cover over the branch circuit breakers is removed?  Since you are there you could help me out by clearing that up.


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## JoeD (Jul 1, 2015)

They would only need the cover over the main line connection if they are the main service. One of those panels with multiple circuits would only have branch circuits in them.


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## JoeD (Jul 1, 2015)

Why would there be a common neutral to all ten circuits and why would it be so small? 
Is that actually a common neutral for a bunch of relays that handle the circuit switching?


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## hornetd (Jul 2, 2015)

JoeD said:


> They would only need the cover over the main line connection if they are the main service. One of those panels with multiple circuits would only have branch circuits in them.



That cover over the main line connection is what I wish we had available here in the US.  Our service entry panels do not have such a cover.  Even when the main breaker is open the Service Entry Conductor terminals are energized and, if the overall panel cover is removed, exposed.  Since so many people insist on messing about in Service Equipment Enclosures it would be a good thing if the supply side terminals of the Service Disconnecting Means (Main Breaker or Fused Pull Out) had a separate dead front to prevent accidental contact with the energized terminals.


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## nealtw (Jul 2, 2015)

hornetd said:


> Do the panels in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs that does not come out when the cover over the branch circuit breakers is removed?  Since you are there you could help me out by clearing that up.



Simple answer, don't know.


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## bud16415 (Jul 2, 2015)

hornetd said:


> That cover over the main line connection is what I wish we had available here in the US. Our service entry panels do not have such a cover. Even when the main breaker is open the Service Entry Conductor terminals are energized and, if the overall panel cover is removed, exposed. Since so many people insist on messing about in Service Equipment Enclosures it would be a good thing if the supply side terminals of the Service Disconnecting Means (Main Breaker or Fused Pull Out) had a separate dead front to prevent accidental contact with the energized terminals.


 

I have thought the same thing myself and once system is turned on there is almost no reason to get up in there. Some industrial panels have such a cover (plastic) and they have small access holes to stick a probe thru if you do need to measure voltage. That would be more than enough. 

I was putting in a 50a breaker not long ago for my hot tub and I had the same thought after throwing the main (just be careful not to poke around above.)


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## JoeD (Jul 2, 2015)

We are also not permitted to bring branch circuits into/through the main breaker section of the panel.


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