# Leaky Curved Copper Pipe



## jvc714 (Nov 11, 2013)

I was wondering if anybody has any ideas on how to fix a leak in a curved copper pipe?  I considered cutting the leak out and using a Sharkbite slip coupler but I cannot slide the slip coupler over it because the pipe is curved.

Thanks in advance.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 11, 2013)

If it's copper, why can't you cut the pipe, slide a union on and solder the joint?


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## jvc714 (Nov 11, 2013)

oldognewtrick said:


> If it's copper, why can't you cut the pipe, slide a union on and solder the joint?




I normally would.  The problem is that it is the pipe is under a concrete slab under the house.  I can only cut what I can see and I can only see the bend.

Thanks for the suggestion though.


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## nealtw (Nov 11, 2013)

Have you a reason for this leak. If it is a bad peice of pipe or corrosion of some kind, you could expect it to leak again. How hard would it be to remove or by-pass this peice?


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## jvc714 (Nov 12, 2013)

oldognewtrick said:


> If it's copper, why can't you cut the pipe, slide a union on and solder the joint?



I think it is a pinhole leak in the copper pipe.  The copper pipe is under a wall that I can only get to by digging a small trench under the foundation through a 8x12 inch hole in the foundation in the laundry room.  It is very tight and I am limited on how far I can dig.  

Unfortunately, I already know it will happen again as this was a very poor design.  Basically, instead of using an elbow, the builder bent the pipe and poured the slab above it.

I really do not want to jack hammer the slab more than I have to as I live in earthquake country and do not want to weaken the slab more than I have to.  

I am hoping that someone here knows some trick that will union a curved pipe with a straight pipe together without near future problems.

Thanks in advance.


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## jvc714 (Nov 12, 2013)

Nealtw, 

I think it is a pinhole leak in the copper pipe.  The copper pipe is under a wall that I can only get to by digging a small trench under the foundation through a 8x12 inch hole in the foundation in the laundry room.  It is very tight and I am limited on how far I can dig.  

Unfortunately, I already know it will happen again as this was a very poor design.  Basically, instead of using an elbow, the builder bent the pipe and poured the slab above it.

I really do not want to jack hammer the slab more than I have to as I live in earthquake country and do not want to weaken the slab more than I have to.  

I am hoping that someone here knows some trick that will union a curved pipe with a straight pipe together without near future problems.

Thanks in advance.


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## nealtw (Nov 12, 2013)

Have a look at this, for re-shaping a damaged pipe.http://www.swigtools.com/


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## CallMeVilla (Nov 12, 2013)

Sharkbite on a curve is NOT good  ...  I have seen water heaters setup that way and the leak was terrible.

I would prefer to go with the flow!  If you have a bent pipe, cut out the problem area and rebend a new piece which is cusome crafted to match.  I use a bending spring (readily available and inexpensive) which is inserted in a longer pipe.  Once you get the right bend, remove the spring, cut the section you need, resolder it into your problem area.  Tricky in your case but it might work.

Here is a video to show you how to bend the copper to match your problem area.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3yud5JSsM[/ame]


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## jvc714 (Nov 13, 2013)

Thank you Nealtw for the suggestion for the tool.  I looked at it and it is just too expensive for me to buy it for one time use.

Thank you CallMeVilla for the suggestion.  Do you by chance know where I can find a coupler that will union two pipes with a bend?  Preferably without soldering?  The work space is very small and I really don't want to accidentally burn myself.

Thanks in advance.


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## CallMeVilla (Nov 13, 2013)

You keep backing yourself into the Sharkbite corner  ...  That is the only non-solder option.

Honestly, your concern about destabilizing your house if you remove more foundation seems over-stated.  Work gets done on houses all the time and the cement is replaced ... you could add rebar if it makes you feel more happy.  

For a proper fix, you need access  ...


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## bud16415 (Nov 13, 2013)

I personally don&#8217;t like the idea of the pipe under the slab at all bent or not. Where does it come from and where does it go. I just bought a house that had screwy plumbing and started cheap patching it up for a few days and finally cut the main line and redid the whole house in less time than I had messed around patching the lines. I&#8217;m not suggesting you re plumb the whole house and you have stated you want to do this as cheap as you can. But in the long run IMHO you will be back fixing this again and again if not the same spot someplace else. Is there any way to run a new line from where this starts to where it ends out of PEX without going under the slab?


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## jvc714 (Nov 13, 2013)

CallMeVilla, you are right.  Thank you for the suggestion.

Bud16415,  I don't like pipes under the slab either but I do not know where else they can run the pipe easily.  The thing I object to is that the fact that they bent the pipe.

I originally did not do it on the cheap.  I hired a supposedly professional plumber that end up not being so professional.  The second mistake is to have someone else supervise the job that didn't know much about plumbing since my mother panicked and I was busy.   At the end, I paid $1000 for the plumber to put a rubber patch on it with a hose clamp and to have it leak two months later.  Now, I am very hesitant to call another plumber as I already got ripped off by the first one.  I was hoping that I can fix it myself and not spend another fortune but so far, it is not looking like I should be going down that road but I may have to if I cannot find someone honest in my area.  I have attached a picture of the fix by the last plumber that leaked again after a short while.  Thank you for taking the time to reply though.


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## nealtw (Nov 13, 2013)

Let's start over, where does pipe come from and where is it going?


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## jvc714 (Nov 14, 2013)

Based on what I know, I can speculate that it is coming from the water heater going to the downstairs bathroom.  I do not know for sure or how it is connected to the water heater.  Hopefully, I can do more digging to find out this weekend.

I have attached a picture of where it is in the ground next to the wall adjacent to the water heater stand.  I cut a hole in the water heater stand only to find more concrete under it.  The good news is that I do see the pipes coming down from the water heater's stand into the slab.  I just do not know if there is a "T" under the slab or not.

The leak is approximately one feet in the wall under the slab towards the water heater stand.  Unfortunately, I cannot dig vertically without ripping out the water heater and the permanent water heater rest and turning it into a humongous and costly job.


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## bud16415 (Nov 14, 2013)

$1000 for a rubber patch sounds pretty steep, but I&#8217;m assuming that included finding the leak and opening the floor. 

Without knowing more about where the pipe starts and ends and how far and what it feeds on the other end. It&#8217;s impossible to suggest rerouting options. What size is the copper tube? My supply line from my well I had run extra-large with the idea if it ever failed I could shove another thru it for replacement. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s an option here maybe if the line is ¾ and the flow demand isn&#8217;t that high on the other end. Most likely not. 

How did you discover the leak in the first place and how did you find it? Is there a valve to shut just that line off? That way you can figure out where it goes.


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## nealtw (Nov 14, 2013)

I haven't had to deal with anything like this but I have seen a house completely re- plumbed above ground, also a very big job. I think you have to keep digging until you get to straight pipe to get a good joint.

I know, we need a don't like button for that one.


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## CallMeVilla (Nov 14, 2013)

OK ... Here is a possible direction you could take.  If you can ID which on of those pipes (above ground) is the leaky one, could you reroute from there?  How about stubbing up and over until you emerge outside the wall next to the water heater then drop down into the slab below the tile where you can cut the line and install a copper el?  If you had the tools and experience, you could even do it with PEX.  

This is a patch solution but you have to get away from the "stuck in the hole" mentality.


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## jvc714 (Nov 14, 2013)

Bud16415, it was suppose to be a permanent fix that included everything.  The supervisor said he could not find the leak after making multiple small digs.  At the end, the supervisor pointed it out and he dug there and found the leak.  He put on the rubber and a hose clamp, buried it back up, re-poured 1/2 inch of  the concrete for a 6 inch slab, and re-tiled with the extra tile we had.  He did not attempt to replace the leaky pipe which was a permanent repair.  He patched everything back up as if it was so we would never know.  

The reason I knew it was there because the floor was unusually warm and our gas bill doubled.  Plus, we had the same problem with the same pipe with the same exact symptoms 13 years ago.  

Unfortunately, there is no shut off valve for that one line.  I was thinking of installing one just to troubleshoot.

CallMeVilla, I am more in favor of the re-route pipes like in your last picture with call-outs.  In fact, I considered it before I posted on here but was hoping that there was a better solution.  I will have to do some further digging this weekend like NealTw suggested to see how the pipe is connected and if this was a possible solution.

I really thank everybody for the great information and trying to help.  I will keep everybody posted.


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## CallMeVilla (Nov 14, 2013)

Your alternative would be to run the pipes UP and through the walls since drywall is easier to mend than your slab.  I would think you could ID the correct pipe and where it goes by cutting and installing a valve at a convenient place.  Then, you can re-route the guilty pipe (one of the three) upward through the house wall structure.

Pain in the fart machine?  Yes.  Easier for you to do than hiring someone for $1,000?  Yes.  

BTW, I notice a lot of gravel in the hole that you pictured  ...  NOT GOOD.  When I have replaced underground copper, I always seat it in a thick sand bed.  If possible, I wrap the pipe in protective cover so stray gravel does not puncture it.

Just sayin'


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## jvc714 (Nov 15, 2013)

CallMeVilla, I think I will install a valve on both hot water pipes going into the slab this weekend to help isolate which pipe it is.  If that is successful, I will re-route it like in your last picture.  I think it is the easiest because I will not have to tear up much more stuff.

As far as the sand, the original plumber that worked on it 13 years ago did fill it with sand.  The last one filled it with the original sand, slab concrete pieces, and broken tile pieces.  I will follow your suggestion with filling it with sand and wrap it in a protective cover when I am done with it.

Thanks again.


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## nealtw (Nov 15, 2013)

Once you figure out where this pipe goes, perhaps you could service that room by tieing into another pipe somewhere else in the house.


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## CallMeVilla (Nov 15, 2013)

One last observation ...  The RED plastic covering in the above-ground photo seems to show in the underground photo.  Is it possible that is your offending pipe?  Could have IDed it easily!

Now, you need to decide which of the several excellent fixes to choose.

Make sure you give us an update.


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## jvc714 (Nov 19, 2013)

It took some guessing since there were several pipes of the same color going through the slab but I was able to isolate it.  

I ended up cutting the pipe and putting in a plug to stop the leak so I can continue work on it next week to fix it properly.  

After plugging up, my observation is that it leads to the downstairs bathroom as the downstairs bathroom no longer has hot water.

I will update this post as I move forward with the fix.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2013)

Any chance you could dig up the other end of the pipe attach a pex and pull like mad?


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## jvc714 (Nov 20, 2013)

Nealtw, I would love to but that would require me to dig up the slab in the bathroom too.  I plan on re-routing it around the curve this weekend.


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## jvc714 (Dec 2, 2013)

CallMeVilla, I ended up re-routing the pipe like in your last picture.  It went well.  Thank you for the suggestion.  I am going to leave the wall and floor open for a few months to make sure it will not leak before sealing it back up.


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## CallMeVilla (Dec 2, 2013)

Nice!  Good problem solving team.  I'm going to "Like" myself ...


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