# How do I put wire in this 250V, 50A outlet?



## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Seems obvious because the sheathings of the large wires are roughly the same color but I don't want to take a chance. Does it even matter which of the larger wires are placed where?


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## JoeD (Nov 16, 2017)

Two hots on the outside. It doesn't matter which one on which side.
Neutral in the center.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

JoeD said:


> Two hots on the outside. It doesn't matter which one on which side.
> Neutral in the center.



Okay thanks.


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## bud16415 (Nov 16, 2017)

What wire size (gage) is your new wire? They look a little small for 50A.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> What wire size (gage) is your new wire? They look a little small for 50A.



I don't know. It's not new wire.

Previously, the outlet was at the left arrow and the wire was spliced at the right arrow. I disconnected the splice and pulled the outlet out. I'm taking the wires out of the outlet and installing the outlet at the right arrow.


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## nealtw (Nov 17, 2017)

New ranges want a ground too, might be a good time to look a little harder at that wire.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

Is this for the oven you are relocating in your kitchen remodel?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

nealtw said:


> New ranges want a ground too, might be a good time to look a little harder at that wire.



Okay. Well I haven't even taken the oven out of the box.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Is this for the oven you are relocating in your kitchen remodel?



Yes.

........


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 17, 2017)

Do it right and safely

_You want that grounded_

50 amp circuit
50 amp two pole breaker
6/3 with ground - copper
NEMA 14-50R - 3 pole 4 wire
NEMA 14-50P - 3 pole 4 wire


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Yes.
> 
> ........



You really need to pull permits for this.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

afjes_2016 said:


> Do it right and safely
> 
> _You want that grounded_
> 
> ...



The OP has a kitchen remodel under the General heading.


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## Kabris (Nov 17, 2017)

It should be grounded absolutely. What I find strange is that you can still buy ranges that give you the wiring diagram for a 3 wire and 4 wire setup. I don't know where it's legal anymore to wire it without ground.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Okay. Well I haven't even taken the oven out of the box.



You don't even need to take it out of the box, you can, and should have, gone to the Mfg's site and opened the installation PDF and found out the information there.

Seldom are elec. ovens plug-in, they are predominantly hard wired.

Another ?. Where and what is the cooktop?


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## Kabris (Nov 17, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> You don't even need to take it out of the box, you can, and should have, gone to the Mfg's site and opened the installation PDF and found out the information there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's illegal to hard wire an electric oven or dryer nowadays, they need a means of disconnect for servicing, most practical is a cord and plug.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

Kabris said:


> It's illegal to hard wire an electric oven or dryer nowadays, they need a means of disconnect for servicing, most practical is a cord and plug.



That's what the breaker is for.

As a for instance;

https://www.whirlpool.com/content/d.../installation-instructions-W10351242-RevC.pdf

https://www.whirlpool.com/content/d.../installation-instructions-W10842010-RevA.pdf

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/191020/Whirlpool-W10346695a.html?page=6#manual

Of the 3, only the Range, and only if it applies to local code, do they provide for a cord to be substituted for direct connect.


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## JoeD (Nov 17, 2017)

Kabris said:


> It should be grounded absolutely. What I find strange is that you can still buy ranges that give you the wiring diagram for a 3 wire and 4 wire setup. I don't know where it's legal anymore to wire it without ground.



It is not legal to wire a new receptacle with three wire connection. However there are thousands of homes that still have old three wire receptacles that were legally installed. The same goes for dryer receptacles.


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## Kabris (Nov 17, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> That's what the breaker is for.
> 
> As a for instance;
> 
> ...




Must be the locality I'm in, bc inspectors won't pass any range or dryer that's hard wired.


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## Kabris (Nov 17, 2017)

JoeD said:


> It is not legal to wire a new receptacle with three wire connection. However there are thousands of homes that still have old three wire receptacles that were legally installed. The same goes for dryer receptacles.




Yes I forgot about the ones grandfathered in.


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 17, 2017)

Apples and Oranges here people.

Oven and Range cross terminology being used.

Oven usually refers to an "oven" built in.
Range usually refers to a "range-burners on top with oven below" free standing.

If the OP had a receptacle prior to renovation it is safe to assume then this is a range and not a built in oven.

FarmerJohn is this a free-standing range? I would think it is.

Free standing range requires a plug and cord connection (means of disconnect at servicing site) for servicing safety. 

If you are relocating the receptacle it is WISE to replace the existing wire/cable etc and bring it up to code. 6/3 with ground. 2 pole 50amp breaker and NEMA 14-50R and NEMA 14-50P (range harness) of which I already stated. Do it right for safety reasons please. I think I recall you rent properties. If this is a rental unit safety would be good (Think "LIABILITY").


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

As the links in post #16 defines.

Ranges installed as plug-in's as the instructions state, when allowed by local codes, is an option.


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 17, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> As the links in post #16 defines.
> 
> Ranges installed as plug-in's as the instructions state, when allowed by local codes, is an option.



And "lig" is spelt with an "e" as in "leg" ----


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

Clean your glasses.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

People keep saying what is legal or illegal without citing laws. I believe the Florida Building Code is where I should be looking?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

And you should have a permit, because, " well, somebody on the internet said this," is not a legal defense.

We do not know which NEC Florida is using, and amended.


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## WyrTwister (Dec 16, 2017)

nealtw said:


> New ranges want a ground too, might be a good time to look a little harder at that wire.




     You are correct , the 3 prong outlet is no longer legal .  Must be 4 prong , with 2 " hots " , 1 neutral and an earth ground .

Wyr
God Bless


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 15, 2018)

nealtw said:


> New ranges want a ground too, might be a good time to look a little harder at that wire.



Are you sure? This is what's on back of the stove. 2 hots and a neutral.


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## JoeD (Jan 15, 2018)

And if you look at the neutral/white lug you will see a jumper and green screw joining them. That jumper connects the neutral to frame to act as the ground. If you have a four wire feed you remove that jumper and connect the ground to the green screw.


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## afjes_2016 (Jan 16, 2018)

Yes as JoeD said and some others, if the stove is being hooked up with 2 hots, neutral and a ground then the metal strap that connects the neutral lug to the ground screw on the back of the stove (see arrow) must be removed. Then the neutral from the stove harness goes to the neutral lug on the stove and the harness ground goes to the green screen on the stove. When using a 3 wire plus ground harness along with 3 wire plus ground cable to the panel (3 pole 4 wire) use a NEMA 14 - separate the neutral from the ground by removing the metal strap on the stove/range

But your original picture showed only a 3 wire cable being used with a NEMA 10. Did you change the cable going from the panel to the stove receptacle and change the receptacle already as advised or did you leave it as it was. If you left it as it was (against advice) and not going to change to a 3 wire plus ground then leave the metal strap where it is.


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