# Brick stain and remodel questions



## aftons1983 (Jul 18, 2017)

I am new to flipping homes.  I am buying the house pictured below. It needs about 25k or so done to the inside. I am trying not to go too high on the exterior due to this home being in an undesirable area. However, I know the curb appeal can really raise the value.  I am not trying to be lazy here but I am new/ignorant and kind of stuck on what to do after tons of research and drawing.
Please give me advice!  Some things we discussed are: putting a gable on porch (expensive I know), staining or painting brick (staining will look better but leaving mortar white will cost a lot in labor while painting requires maintenance to the future home owner), just painting the porch and taking lattice off or replacing with something better, adding thickness to the side and front of porch roof to give it dimension and make it flow better with the other roof, covering porch rafters with siding, moving porch stairs to front of porch (even though the sidewalk would have to be moved), different landscaping options with shrubs or flower bed and hanging baskets on the porch, new windows and doors is a definite since most of the windows are not double pane, replacing 3 small columns with 2 large ones, just taking off porch roof to leave it as a deck, and you cannot see the carport but there is a make shift carport on right side we are tearing down bc it looks rough so we wondered should we put some kind of cheap carport up like a metal one on top of the slab or just leave it bare. I dislike metal carports but I know not having carport or garage is huge deal because here in Georgia most homes come standard with them. This pic is old and yard has no shrubs or trees. Just overgrown grass. We are doing shutters to match roof. We are putting a new roof and I decided metal will sell better. Plus we can get either type for same price.  Contractor also mentioned bringing metal down around porch roof to help look although I cannot visualize that well.  Metal color will depend on what color brick ends up.  I know with staining it we can give it a modern brick look like some newer homes but dad keeps saying way too expensive. So if we paint it, maybe taupe, light green, grey, or white paint.  I know no one would want to do this on their own home bc of maintenance but if it would help sell it I think it might be worth it.  I wish I could do everyone of these things.  But we would be in the hole.  Any ideas or are any of my ideas going to help sell? I put this in the brick section because the best idea I could think of was changing the outdated brick and maybe some experienced person might know the easiest way and if it will add a lot of value.  I love brick, just not the 1970s color of it.  Thanks so much for any advice and thanks for taking a second to read.  Maybe some day I will be able to contribute and pay it forward on here.


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## joecaption (Jul 19, 2017)

I would not do anything to that brick unless it's dirty, then all I'd do is clean it!
Someone would have to do some like home sales research to figure out just how much to be spending on improvements.
Bad area, other homes in about the same condition in that area, spending to much money on improvements may help it sell faster but there will be little or no return on your money.
All we have is a picture to go by, but a few things I think I'm seeing looks like an older 3 tab shingled roof, a window A/C instead of central air, what looks like a trump in the middle of the yard that should have been cut off and ground down.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 19, 2017)

First of all thank you so much for your response.  I really appreciate you taking the time to read that loooong msg and all.  I am definitely considering your concept of minimum changes and just cleaning it up.  We are putting in central heat and air.  The inside of the home will have all standard things. In GA everything is considered standard except a 4th bedroom, garbage disposal, and large utility room.  We are even making a half bath into a full bath to give it 2 full bathrooms both of which are being gutted and replaced with new stuff.  I figured 2 baths was most important.  Also we are rewiring due to the wiring being an old fuse box.  The kitchen is also being gutted.  It has the only paneling wall and although the cabinets are good and just need new stain, they do not match.  The top ones are different from the bottom ones.  So we are even replacing those with a very modern stain.  We are covering the outdated wood floor with vinyl plank.  I was back and forth on that one.  It is about the same price to refinish them as it is to put vinyl plank over but 2 people have now told me that folks will not like the older looking very small wood sections that was popular in the 70s.  Walls are being repainted, some ceilings are having to be redone due to an improper fix after a water leak many years ago.  All doors and windows inside and out except one window that is current (the one with the a/c hanging out lol).  We are making this look modern on the inside.  That is easy for me because those are things that have to be changed anyway.  The stuff I am on the fence about on the outside would be purely cosmetic (except for the porch and I have drawn and googled for about 10 hours trying to figure it out).  It is hard to find images of raised porches like that (only back yard decks). Thanks again for your response.  Anybody else agree with minimum change on exterior by just cleaning it?  Also if so can you give me any idea on what you would do with that porch in addition to pressure wash and remove/replace lattice?  I was thinking paint it white maybe but should I also change the build of it?  We have leftover wood from taking down the make shift carport that has a lot of wood and the wood on the carport is in better shape than the wood on the porch as the carport is fairly new.  Just hanging weird.


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## bud16415 (Jul 19, 2017)

Take a photo of the next 5 houses each side of it and the five across the street and we may be able to give you an idea of how far to go. Get a point of what you paid for it and the comp price based on those homes and what you need to get out of this one. 

Just the stuff you listed sounds like you are going to be over 25k budget pretty quick. Are you doing all the work yourself and are you applying a labor cost to your time.


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2017)

joecaption said:


> I would not do anything to that brick unless it's dirty, then all I'd do is clean it!
> Someone would have to do some like home sales research to figure out just how much to be spending on improvements.
> Bad area, other homes in about the same condition in that area, spending to much money on improvements may help it sell faster but there will be little or no return on your money.
> All we have is a picture to go by, but a few things I think I'm seeing looks like an older 3 tab shingled roof, a window A/C instead of central air, what looks like a* trump *in the middle of the yard that should have been cut off and ground down.



You want to what with trump?:nono:


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## bud16415 (Jul 19, 2017)

nealtw said:


> You want to what with trump?:nono:



HaHa I looked for a yard sign also after I read it.


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> HaHa I looked for a yard sign also after I read it.



He was somewhere between stump and trunk.


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2017)

Painting the brick is what we see on TV rebuilds now. But that is pretty much irreversible  and if the brick is in good shape I would find a better place to spend the money.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 19, 2017)

What do you think is a better way to spend the money making the outside look better?  I was hoping there was a better way than painting the brick.  Even though my job is not to worry about routine maintenance and the first time buyer most likely will not care, I still want to give them a maintenance free wall exterior if possible.  The brick was the only idea that came to me.  The contractor gave the gable idea.  I put a gable on it with this app and it seemed to help maybe a little.  There seems to be a lot of mixed reviews on brick.  Of course if it is your house you do not want to add the maintenance but also some people like the look of that old school brick.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 19, 2017)

Here are the homes I could screen shot off of google map.  Just because it will be a few days before I am back over there.  These homes still look pretty much the same except that some of the yards have gotten slightly more junky.  The homes are mostly brick and slighly larger than this one I am getting and with better carports.  The only except is there are 2 doublewides and one home with wood siding.  The 2 doublewides are nice with very kept yards (I sent image of the less nice of the 2).  Anyway in my opinion, the home I am buying is almost the least nice one on the street.


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2017)

As mentioned , tight budget. The stump and chain link fence don't help, have the roof cleaned if possible. Other houses have a gabled roof over the front porch and shutters on the windows which makes them more attractive.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 19, 2017)

We are leaving the fence but the stump is no longer there.  We were doing shutters (I was also considering window trim as I like it better than shutters).  I was noticing that many had a gable to when I was snapping photos.  Thanks for your help!


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2017)

aftons1983 said:


> We are leaving the fence but the stump is no longer there.  We were doing shutters (I was also considering window trim as I like it better than shutters).  I was noticing that many had a gable to when I was snapping photos.  Thanks for your help!



If you had to do a new roof, the gable over the porch would be good plus.
I don't think you can get a window trim in there but shutters will add that little bit of interest.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 19, 2017)

Okay great thank you!


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## jeffmattero76 (Jul 20, 2017)

Personally, I would NEVER buy a brick home where the bricks were painted. To me, that is a huge negative to the value of the house. It becomes a maintenance headache on what should be a more or less maintenance free exterior. Powerwash and clean it rather than paont it in my opinion.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yes I feel the same way.  I just do not think most first time home buyers will think that and I am trying to cater to them.  I am afraid they will see the outdated brick of their childhood home era.  We are leaning toward not doing the brick but I am still afraid it is a mistake.  We shall see.  Thanks for your advice


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## bud16415 (Jul 21, 2017)

What make you think the first-time buyer will be your target. I see an older person or couple downsizing just as easily. That age group will be cash in hand and know what they want. 

Flipping houses is not at all the TV show version.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yes good point.  The buyers in this particular area seem to be young and first time buyers.  I am sure that changes for more expensive homes.  We have a lot of town homes and that seems to be what older downsizing people go for.  The town homes go really cheap too.  While it is possible an older person who cares more about maintenance than modern might be interested, they will be the minority.  Like I said we are shying away from the painting mainly because of the price and my dad hating the idea (him having that mentality of what he would want done to brick on his own house).  Dad thinks the gable will update the home more than paint will so we are going to do that instead I think.  Then we are tearing down ugly carport, putting a metal roof (current roof is not old but has some missing shingles and is ugly chicken house looking light grey shingles), redoing the rough looking porch (although not exactly sure how yet), replacing wood with vinyl siding (on side of house you cannot see in pic), putting cement patio out back, and putting some shrubs in front of home.  Hopefully this will be enough and I will send a pic update when finished.  Hopefully this will help more people in the future trying to modernize a brick ranch.  However if anybody thinks I am messing up or has any other ides, please share.  Thanks!


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## bud16415 (Jul 21, 2017)

The whole front porch would really pop if painted white. The weathered PT just looks DIY-ish and I know this is a DIY forum. White shutters and white porch. Low landscaping and a clean look and it wont be the same place. The gable end will look much better also. Looks like some of the neighbors are doing metal roof. With the right color on there that would help also. With the gable you are going to have to do the roof anyway.


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## nealtw (Jul 21, 2017)

You want to fix that house up to livable and clean and sell it to someone that has the skills to make it beautiful. So you have to sell the dream. Cheap enough that a small family can squeeze their budget and get in the door and make improvement over time. They don't want to live in a dump so just have a clean place to start with at the right price is great.

After you have figured out how to get them there and talking, you have to be able to answer every question. 
If you deal honestly and fairly, they will bring their friends to your next open house.
People will ask tough questions like what insulation is in the wall, how old is the roof and what would it cost to replace. same with the windows. Have the septic tank pumped and find out how big it is will it service if someone adds to the house. 

All the honest information with a house move in ready gives you an advantage.
Often sales people drop off flowers or something for the buyer, that fine for the wife, he needs a saw or something.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 21, 2017)

I like that "livable and clean".  That is far from what we have planned but it does make sense.  I just worried this house was too outdated to do that.  Like never had central heating and air (wall units throughout).  It only had 1.5 bath and maybe I am wrong, but it seems everybody wants at least 3 bed 2 bath (unless in a big expensive city...we are far from that).  It has the old wiring so all electrical must be redone to make it safe.  

However I am going to try to stick to your idea as much as possible so we can sell as cheap as possible.  I am fairly new to this.  I have only sold one other property and it did not need near as much work to it so the deciding process was the easiest part.  I had to debate on large or small new front deck and that was about the only debate.  We went large.  In the end it did not matter lol.


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## nealtw (Jul 21, 2017)

So you show people where the new bedroom and bath would go and explain what that will involve and how much more your price would have to be and of coarse the buyer with sweat equity could do it all for much less.


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## aftons1983 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yes this is a good idea.  Do you think they will actually even be there to see the home or that they will even be able to visualize adding the bathroom or be willing to do so.  Plus they will not have a lot of extra money after getting the loan.  That is usually why they want a house in tip top shake I think so they do not have to come up with money outside the mortgage?  When I was looking to buy my first house at age 26, I did not even go look at anything with 1.5 baths.  Maybe I should have but will a lot not think the same way?  And I was looking for a foreclosure that needed minimum work done on it.  So I was willing to work on home but did not want to have to do a lot.  I am not saying you are wrong, but just giving my viewpoint to see if you still think that just visualizing the bath is enough.  I mean it is a sellers market.  We have a big shortage of homes here.  So maybe someone would be inclined to view a 1.5 bath just to see if they could make it into a 2 bath.


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## nealtw (Jul 21, 2017)

Sure most people are looking for a house with all the bells and whistles, your house will never be that. So you have to draw a line somewhere.
But how many people are on the edge and can't get into the market, do you have competition for those buyers.


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## aftons1983 (May 3, 2018)

I just want to update everyone on this home as I said I would and maybe it will help someone else.  We did A LOT to it, we sold it to the 3rd person to view home which was very fast.  We made a very good
profit off of it.  So my dad was very against painting the brick, but he visited a friend one town up who flips homes and lives in them until selling them.  She had flipped a brick and had painted it.  My dad loved it so much.  The fact that everything I was wanting to do to the home had been done in his friend's flip and looked great was a blessing.  I no longer had to argue with him.  The potential buyer was very happy with the home and had no reservations about painted brick.  Painted brick is still easier to deal with than vinyl siding or wood siding after all.  I know that it might not be best for someone who wants zero outside maintenance but to someone who wants the home to look modern it is the most genius easy way to do so.  We bought paint for front deck but did not have time to let it dry before it was sold so the buyer is painting it.  We ended up not putting a gable or roof on the new porch we built.  I was on the fence about it the whole time.  We also did not add a carport which ended up not mattering at all.  The house was purchased because it was the best house in the town for the price range.  We put a cement patio on the back so we decided to use the stepping stones already on the property to make a pathway for the front yard.  The inspector did not like this pathway at all, but I thought it was cute and gave the front yard less of a cement look to it.  Plus the new owner can pave it if she wants.  We took up the old hardwood that needed finished and put down dark laminate.  This worked out great.  Although dark laminate needs cleaned a lot so the buyer might not be happy with us later, but it did look great (fyi the laminate is darker than it looks in the pictures).  The black metal roof looked great.  However it did not do too much for the home as you can barely see the roof unless standing in the road.  The roof does not stick up high.  Everything was replaced except the brick, ceiling, half floor joists, most of the sheetrock, and some wiring.  When it was said and done, we wanted the house for ourselves.  It is a lot cuter than mine now and I never thought that possible with a 70s plain jane brick ranch.  This home took a while because the contractor took 6 months to do a 2 month job, just in case you are wondering why it took so long to post.  We just bought our next home which is an upgrade from this one and has nice light brick that will not need painted!  Thanks for your help and your opinions.  I hope this can help others who are on the fence about painting brick.  If your brick is ugly go buy the paint today.  Well take a couple days to make sure you get the right color.  BTW we bought the same color as dad's flip friend but the grey looked lighter on our home than it did on her's.  So keep that in mind that different bricks show different colors.


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## oldognewtrick (May 3, 2018)

Definitely a dramatic improvement. Hope everyone is happy with it.


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## greenlady0 (May 4, 2018)

aftons1983 said:


> First of all thank you so much for your response.  I really appreciate you taking the time to read that loooong msg and all.  I am definitely considering your concept of minimum changes and just cleaning it up.  We are putting in central heat and air.  The inside of the home will have all standard things. In GA everything is considered standard except a 4th bedroom, garbage disposal, and large utility room.  We are even making a half bath into a full bath to give it 2 full bathrooms both of which are being gutted and replaced with new stuff.  I figured 2 baths was most important.  Also we are rewiring due to the wiring being an old fuse box.  The kitchen is also being gutted.  It has the only paneling wall and although the cabinets are good and just need new stain, they do not match.  The top ones are different from the bottom ones.  So we are even replacing those with a very modern stain.  We are covering the outdated wood floor with vinyl plank.  I was back and forth on that one.  It is about the same price to refinish them as it is to put vinyl plank over but 2 people have now told me that folks will not like the older looking very small wood sections that was popular in the 70s.  Walls are being repainted, some ceilings are having to be redone due to an improper fix after a water leak many years ago.  All doors and windows inside and out except one window that is current (the one with the a/c hanging out lol).  We are making this look modern on the inside.  That is easy for me because those are things that have to be changed anyway.  The stuff I am on the fence about on the outside would be purely cosmetic (except for the porch and I have drawn and googled for about 10 hours trying to figure it out).  It is hard to find images of raised porches like that (only back yard decks). Thanks again for your response.  Anybody else agree with minimum change on exterior by just cleaning it?  Also if so can you give me any idea on what you would do with that porch in addition to pressure wash and remove/replace lattice?  I was thinking paint it white maybe but should I also change the build of it?  We have leftover wood from taking down the make shift carport that has a lot of wood and the wood on the carport is in better shape than the wood on the porch as the carport is fairly new.  Just hanging weird.


Hi I agree you will be amazed with what cleaning can do for the brick and I would suggest it for the roof as well. Look into a company that uses a "gentle enzyme power wash" Their equipment looks like power washing with different nozzels for different tasks such as driveways vs cleaning the house. DO NOT RENT A POWER WASHER it just etches and even in a pro's hands can do more damage than good. I had a 60 year old 2400 sq ft totally stone sprawling ranch house plus drive patio and outdoor fireplace done for a little over 2,000 in NE Ohio they can also take care of the staining on the roof and will take away the immediate thought that the house will need a new one shortly. I have no connection to this type of business  just great past experience on this home and an older brick home that was located near enough to an industrial area the brick took the brunt of soot settling and was made to look brand new! For your front porch.It does look like it may need rebuilt, if you have the funds a gabled roof with a metal roof for contrast would certainly raise the value if not follow the same pattern replace with same shingles after cleaning if necessary. You could  add some substance by making the bottom of the deck enclosed across the front at least, if you can find a brick face in a similar color would also be an upgrade for the face but I think would return in higher value and curb appeal. Use good solid posts with a proper rail all around and at the stairs. Even if you don't go the gabled roof route just freshening and adding quality features to the deck would be an improvement. I think a fresh coat of a colored stain would be a better look than paint especially white which would be a dated style,solid color or semi-transparent stain is easier to maintain. Choose your color after the brick is cleaned. Go with something in in a natural woodland color a green or shade of brown even a greyish brown, stay away from grays or any colors that are cool in tone it will detract from the warmth of the brick to keep in neutral territory then a dark green or brown metal roof would make sense. If the lattice was placed for sun control , here is your opportunity for staging there are some really nice and relatively inexpensive outdoor shades that can roll up and down...there are even outdoor curtains for some fancy prints. One last thought on "the outdated hardwood floors"please  don't buy into that it falls into the bad idea of painted brick and granite everywhere. These are trends that folks have lived with long enough now to realize they are not practical ! Whatever you put in try to preserve those floors for when the neighborhood turns around and the trend of wide plank rustic is out of style and that someone can restore those hardwoods. FYI since you did mention you are a newbie to this I have to assume you are also younger...the reason why the last time you saw the narrow boards was in the 70's is not because like avocado green and harvest gold appliances which are the painted brick and granite of  today,they became very expensive. The original colonial era homes up until the industrial age had wide plank  floors was because of the lack of tools, same reason log cabins were  the most common type home the more a material is handled the more expensive so as machinery and economics allowed the prestige came in the form of the narrower but thick boards for the masses, the wealthy had inlays etc. Next came parquet as a design trend but it was too busy to have large expanses of it as home sizes grew but the longboard hardwoods prevailed until "wall to wall" carpeting became the latest and greatest status symbol. I see the trend for the wood floors coming full circle only todays wall to wall carpet is now "luxury vinyl" and click everything...The producers have purchased 3-D printers and now they are using them for everything! Beware of non natural materials we already live in a toxic environment thanks to their increased use in the '70's from our food supply to our housing materials. Hope this helps.


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## slownsteady (May 7, 2018)

Pressure wash the bricks and seal them with a glossy sealer ( or semi-glossy) just to give it a little pop. Landscape, landscape, landscape. A few low bushes in front of the porch, some flowering plants and some pots hanging from that porch roof. Change the lattice for a railing that has a more open feel. If that is the front entrance, don't take the roof off.


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## aftons1983 (May 9, 2018)

greenlady0 said:


> Hi I agree you will be amazed with what cleaning can do for the brick and I would suggest it for the roof as well. Look into a company that uses a "gentle enzyme power wash" Their equipment looks like power washing with different nozzels for different tasks such as driveways vs cleaning the house. DO NOT RENT A POWER WASHER it just etches and even in a pro's hands can do more damage than good. I had a 60 year old 2400 sq ft totally stone sprawling ranch house plus drive patio and outdoor fireplace done for a little over 2,000 in NE Ohio they can also take care of the staining on the roof and will take away the immediate thought that the house will need a new one shortly. I have no connection to this type of business  just great past experience on this home and an older brick home that was located near enough to an industrial area the brick took the brunt of soot settling and was made to look brand new! For your front porch.It does look like it may need rebuilt, if you have the funds a gabled roof with a metal roof for contrast would certainly raise the value if not follow the same pattern replace with same shingles after cleaning if necessary. You could  add some substance by making the bottom of the deck enclosed across the front at least, if you can find a brick face in a similar color would also be an upgrade for the face but I think would return in higher value and curb appeal. Use good solid posts with a proper rail all around and at the stairs. Even if you don't go the gabled roof route just freshening and adding quality features to the deck would be an improvement. I think a fresh coat of a colored stain would be a better look than paint especially white which would be a dated style,solid color or semi-transparent stain is easier to maintain. Choose your color after the brick is cleaned. Go with something in in a natural woodland color a green or shade of brown even a greyish brown, stay away from grays or any colors that are cool in tone it will detract from the warmth of the brick to keep in neutral territory then a dark green or brown metal roof would make sense. If the lattice was placed for sun control , here is your opportunity for staging there are some really nice and relatively inexpensive outdoor shades that can roll up and down...there are even outdoor curtains for some fancy prints. One last thought on "the outdated hardwood floors"please  don't buy into that it falls into the bad idea of painted brick and granite everywhere. These are trends that folks have lived with long enough now to realize they are not practical ! Whatever you put in try to preserve those floors for when the neighborhood turns around and the trend of wide plank rustic is out of style and that someone can restore those hardwoods. FYI since you did mention you are a newbie to this I have to assume you are also younger...the reason why the last time you saw the narrow boards was in the 70's is not because like avocado green and harvest gold appliances which are the painted brick and granite of  today,they became very expensive. The original colonial era homes up until the industrial age had wide plank  floors was because of the lack of tools, same reason log cabins were  the most common type home the more a material is handled the more expensive so as machinery and economics allowed the prestige came in the form of the narrower but thick boards for the masses, the wealthy had inlays etc. Next came parquet as a design trend but it was too busy to have large expanses of it as home sizes grew but the longboard hardwoods prevailed until "wall to wall" carpeting became the latest and greatest status symbol. I see the trend for the wood floors coming full circle only todays wall to wall carpet is now "luxury vinyl" and click everything...The producers have purchased 3-D printers and now they are using them for everything! Beware of non natural materials we already live in a toxic environment thanks to their increased use in the '70's from our food supply to our housing materials. Hope this helps.




Thanks for your reply.  However you are a little late.  You can see in my post from the other day that I finished and much of what I did was contrary to your advice.  I do appreciate your input though .


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## aftons1983 (May 9, 2018)

slownsteady said:


> Pressure wash the bricks and seal them with a glossy sealer ( or semi-glossy) just to give it a little pop. Landscape, landscape, landscape. A few low bushes in front of the porch, some flowering plants and some pots hanging from that porch roof. Change the lattice for a railing that has a more open feel. If that is the front entrance, don't take the roof off.




The home is finished and sold.  My last post from the other day showed before and after photos.  We started working on this around September/October and finished a few weeks ago.


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## slownsteady (May 9, 2018)

Yeah, sorry. I somehow missed all of page 2, but saw Greenlady's post


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## greenlady0 (May 9, 2018)

aftons1983 said:


> Thanks for your reply.  However you are a little late.  You can see in my post from the other day that I finished and much of what I did was contrary to your advice.  I do appreciate your input though .


I did see the photos nice result even if you did not use my suggestions  food for thought next time...


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