# Raising a Lowered Ceiling?



## aNYCdb (Jan 3, 2017)

So the next project in my project house is to create a level ceiling in my kitchen. Currently about 1/3 of my kitchen has a ceiling that is about a foot lower than the rest, that was done when the house was built 60 years  ago. Currently there is a 1x10 "beam" (which I'm going to replace with something more substantial) with joists resting on top spanning to one outside wall (12' away) and with other joists hung off the beam to the other outside wall (4' away). For whatever reason the heights of the outside walls are about a foot different. My plan was to put an LVL beam in with joist hangers supporting the existing long joists (12') and connect the shorter side to the roof rafters on the shorter side.

My question is 1) what is the best way to make this connection? 2) how do I transfer ensure that the weight is being supported by the outside wall if I am tying into rafters? 3) is this just a bad idea and I should think of something else?


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## nealtw (Jan 3, 2017)

Have you opened it up to see exactly what you have, 1x10 is likely just hiding something else. Is there a chance this was an addition?
The outside wall might be shorter to allow the same or some  pitch on the roof.
Post some photos.


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## aNYCdb (Jan 4, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Have you opened it up to see exactly what you have, 1x10 is likely just hiding something else. Is there a chance this was an addition?
> The outside wall might be shorter to allow the same or some  pitch on the roof.
> Post some photos.



It's all open (I've pretty much taken the whole house to the studs at this point), so nothing hidden. Everything is old rough cut lumber so if there were any renovations they weren't recent, but I think you may be right about the lower wall height being used to give the roof a greater slope.


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## nealtw (Jan 4, 2017)

aNYCdb said:


> It's all open (I've pretty much taken the whole house to the studs at this point), so nothing hidden. Everything is old rough cut lumber so if there were any renovations they weren't recent, but I think you may be right about the lower wall height being used to give the roof a greater slope.



So what is the slope of the rafters at the lower wall, is that the 4 ft span.

I would like to see a photo if you can.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2017)

A ceiling joist is also a rafter tie and a rafter tie can be anywhere in the bottom 3 of the rafter.
Usually we would ask for an engineer to look at this for a beam size but if a 1x10 has past the test of time. I think we can be reasonably be sure that 2 2x10s or 2 2x12s would be plenty, the weight must only be the ceiling itself.
If I have it right, one set of joist are nailed into the 1x10 and the other set are sitting on top of the 1x10.
Then I would build a temp wall to hold  up the higher set of joists and fit the new two ply beam across the ends of the joists bottom level with the bottom of the joists  and make sure it has two studs directly below each end for solid bearing to the floor and below the floor to the foundation pull nails out and add hanger. If in that job you have to cut the ends of the joists to get the beam in, then don't forget the ceiling joists are holding the two outside walls from leaning  out so an extra brace or two would be needed.

The new rafters could be put on the other side level with the bottom of the beam and fit to the side of the rafters on that side.

See in the picture that they also added another piece cut with angles to go from the wall to under the new joist. They went a little overboard on the bolts.
That piece with angles attached to the rafter will want to be 2x10 that will allow your insulation and the vent chute for vent air.
Then you will be stuck with an angled ceiling close to the wall.


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## aNYCdb (Jan 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> A ceiling joist is also a rafter tie and a rafter tie can be anywhere in the bottom 3 of the rafter.
> Usually we would ask for an engineer to look at this for a beam size but if a 1x10 has past the test of time. I think we can be reasonably be sure that 2 2x10s or 2 2x12s would be plenty, the weight must only be the ceiling itself.
> If I have it right, one set of joist are nailed into the 1x10 and the other set are sitting on top of the 1x10.
> Then I would build a temp wall to hold  up the higher set of joists and fit the new two ply beam across the ends of the joists bottom level with the bottom of the joists  and make sure it has two studs directly below each end for solid bearing to the floor and below the floor to the foundation pull nails out and add hanger. If in that job you have to cut the ends of the joists to get the beam in, then don't forget the ceiling joists are holding the two outside walls from leaning  out so an extra brace or two would be needed.
> ...




I'll take some pictures this weekend when I'm back up there. In the meantime the roof (and rafters) is about an 8" rise per 12" run. That said I think you basically answered my question with the photo, which was can I have one side be connected like traditional floor joists and have the other side be connected like rafter ties, which seems like a yes. Basically that picture is exactly what I'm shooting for with a slight angle in the drywall the last foot or so.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2017)

Hangers on both sides, should do the job.
If you happened to be putting cupboards on that wall the angle could be hidden with a drop box.


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