# Replacing 1975 Toilet



## akersr

This is what was under our 1975 toilet. left bolt is 10.50", right is is 10.75". Old toilet was big and set flush against the back wall. Wondering if I can get a 12" rough in to fit. Or should I just chisel  this stuff out and start over with a 12" adapter flange? Not too experienced at this.


----------



## nealtw

I can not see your photo.
If you have a wood floor you may be up against the position of the floor joist.


----------



## akersr

It's concrete! Wondering of I should chisel this out, add flooring over the concrete to level it up with the existing laminate,  install a new flange and order a 10" toilet, Would that be the easiest way to do this? 
Thanks,
Scott


----------



## johnjh2o

The rough of a toilet is measured from the back wall to the center of the pipe not from the side wall.


----------



## nealtw

The bolts are cut off after the toilet is installed and are meant to be replaced each time you lift the toilet. They are in  slip slot in the flange.
It is a common mistake for the plumber not to allow for the wall behind the toilet.
I would dig it out if for nothing else to level the floor.
Chip more from around the flange and see what you have.


----------



## Snoonyb

The trick is actually being able to find a WC that will match or slightly overlap the pattern of the existing WC.

If you can, simply clean the toilet flange, replace the bolts, add a new wax ring and set the new WC.


----------



## akersr

Thanks Johnj20. The 10.5 " and 10.75" measurements are from the bolts to the back wall. My description along with the pic was confusing. The pic with the tape measure sideways probably made it even more so. I took that one to remind myself how narrow the space was when I went WC shopping.

I'll start chipping away until I get to the flange and see what I find.

Thanks for the drawings nealtw! Looks there's only 14" from sidewall  to center in this space.


----------



## Snoonyb

What you may not find, "off the shelf", at the big boxes, is a 10" WC, but you can "special order" them, just be aware of the price, because you may be able to beat that at a plumbing supplier, off the shelf.

And while you are at it, consider changing the angle stop to a 1/4 turn ball valve.

The 30" is today's standard, which can be addressed in the pullman/vanity.

If you are contemplating a built-up floor product there are flange extensions to address that as well.


----------



## akersr

Here's what it looks like after chipping away this morning. I can't find where its attached to the slab or drainpipe. Its in solid and its tilted at an angle. 
The left side is just about flush with the floor and the right side is about half an inch below the existing floor. Do i knock it out somehow or use it as a base for a new flange like the one pictures which would be shimmed to level. If I knock it out I have to build the base up about an inch to reach floor level.


----------



## nealtw

akersr said:


> Here's what it looks like after chipping away this morning. I can't find where its attached to the slab or drainpipe. Its in solid and its tilted at an angle.
> The left side is just about flush with the floor and the right side is about half an inch below the existing floor. Do i knock it out somehow or use it as a base for a new flange like the one pictures which would be shimmed to level. If I knock it out I have to build the base up about an inch to reach floor level.



I think that one fits inside a 4" pipe.
Is your pipe cast iron or plastic?


----------



## Snoonyb

Your existing flange is a lead oakum set and you can leave it, set the new bolts, add double wax rings and set the WC.


----------



## akersr

It's a soft metal, could it be lead? The flange pic is for a 3" pipe.


----------



## akersr

I replied before seeing your post snoonyb. Thanks for the update on what I have. Can I use this flange even though it sits at an angle?


----------



## nealtw

this toilet is one of the best on the market and the piece under it can be changed out for 10 ,12 or 14"  for no extra money.
https://www.bobvila.com/sections/tv...stalling-a-toto-one-piece-toilet#.WFnfh72KrQo


----------



## akersr

The old toilet was leaking from the bottom before we got rid of it. It was on its way out anyway as we weren't happy with the color. I'm guessing the wax ring was at fault. 

My next question is now that I've chiseled away all of the previous owner's  "custom" height adjustment, will where the flange is seated now going to be too low in relationship to the floor height?  

The high side of the tilted flange sits just at floor height. The low side is 1/2" below floor height(see pics).  Nealtw's drawings show the bottom of the flange at floor height. 

Sorry to have so many questions. When this toilet leaks it leaks through the wall into an adjacent sunken living room. Tired of moving bookcases and furniture. 

Snoonyb you were right. There are some 10" toilets in stock at a local plumbing supply house.

Thanks


----------



## nealtw

akersr said:


> The old toilet was leaking from the bottom before we got rid of it. I'm guessing the wax ring was at fault. My next question is now that I've chiseled all the "custom" height adjustment, will where the flange is seated now going to be too low for the floor height. The high side of the tilted flange sits just at floor height. nealtw's drawings show the bottom of the flange at floor height.
> Thanks



The usual trick is to use a fat wax ring or two rings, there are companies that make spacers so you could raise it but being on an angle is another problem.

I sent a link to one of those companies to see if they could suggest a fix.

But with the toto toilet I posted earlier you get too mount the wax ring and can test the seal before you place the toilet, that might be a plus and the fact that it can be made to fit the ten inches.


----------



## Snoonyb

akersr said:


> I replied before seeing your post snoonyb. Thanks for the update on what I have. Can I use this flange even though it sits at an angle?



It appears that there was an "adjustment" made when the pour was done causing the closet bend to have been tilted, so the flange pictured may also set at an angle, affecting the seal. However it may not, so if you elect to use this style of flange, I'd set it a base of urethane construction adhesive, set the bolts and support the low side with a nut and washer and leave it alone for a couple of days until the urethane takes a set.


----------



## akersr

Thank Ya'll....as we say it down here

  translation

New toilet is in...and working. I learned a lot.

4 trips to the store, 3 days a fretting, 2 wax rings, one 12 inch rough in toilet, and a partridge and a pair tree.

Thank everyone who commented or shared a thought on this!!

Very helpful.


----------



## nealtw

I think you would have got there on your own but you are more than welcome.


----------



## Snoonyb

And the price was right.


----------



## akersr

After and Before. Thanks Again!

We found 10" toilet at a local retailer but the foot looked too small to cover the missing flooring. A local plumbing supplier also had some 10" models. nealtw's suggested toilets looked good but we went local as i needed to install it before Christmas and couldn't wait for one to be shipped. 

We ultimately went with the 12" because it had a very rectangular foot that covers the missing flooring. A very helpful big box employer pulled a mobile stairway up to the toilet display so I could measure the toilet. Since our measurement from back wall to center of drain was 10.5" I wanted to make sure we had enough room. 

As you can see from the pic, it sits very close to the back wall. This was not a problem for us since the 1970's yellow that came out of the space was touching the wall. When we pulled it there were two different layers of wallpaper and paint that had been installed around the toilet. They didn't even bother to remove the toilet for those jobs. 

I changed the leaking angle stop, then started steaming and removing the wall paper that remained on the wall behind the toilet. After some research, I figured it might contain asbestos, so decided to leave the the rest of the well attached wallpaper intact. I repaired the drywall where I'd removed the paper, skim coated then primed the whole wall, wet sponged to sand, then painted. Thankfully, you can't tell where the wallpaper ends and the drywall begins. Still need to paint the trim, but had to get this thing in as we'll have a full house for Christmas.


----------



## Snoonyb

Would you be so kind to discuss the flush mechanism on this WC, the choice for an elongated bowl and if the WC is a "right height" or standard.

By the way, nice job, and I like the sponge sanding, neat trick.


----------



## akersr

OK. Sorry about taking so long to respond. Busy Christmas and post Christmas return to work. 

The flush mechanism can be seen in the photo. This is new to me as all the toilets in the house except for this one are circa 1975. Seems to work well and use less water too. 

The elongated seat was not a special choice....it was the option that came with this toilet that looked like it would fit our tight space. Has worked well.

Another surprise option was the toilet height. The old toilet bowl sat at 14.5 inches from the floor. This one sits at 16.5". A more comfortable height. Again, just happened to be the height that came with the toilet that fit the space.


----------



## akersr

One other update. After the install, all seemed well until the next day when the bathroom floor once again filled with water.  Seemed to be another clog and wax ring fail. This was the exact same scenario that caused me to pull the original toilet in the first place. Aaarghh, and as Yogi Berra once said, "deja vu all over again"!!!

Not only did the bathroom floor fill, but once again water spilled into the sunken floor in the adjacent living room causing furniture removal, etc., etc., etc!!!!

I removed the toilet, but this time snaked the drain line instead of using "chemical" uncloggers(beginners mistake) I ran into a blockage at about 12' and cleared it.  I reset the toilet but used this gizmo instead of wax rings. I was able to cut away some of the foam on one side of the gray extender to correct some of the flange slant discussed previously.

It has been reinstalled since 12/24 and all is well.....knock on wood.

Thanks again for all the help with this project. I really appreciate it.


----------



## nealtw

Thanks for that one, it is a reminder to always check for blockage down stream when you have a leak at the wax ring.


----------



## akersr

Point well taken. When I first pulled the original toilet in October, I poured lye down the pipe to clean out any clogs. 

Well, the bathroom sat un-toileted for nearly 2 months before I was able to start the project. 

I wrongly figured the clog was gone because if I turned on the bathroom sink full blast the water drained with out rising up to floor level at the toilet pipe. 

Surprise , Surprise. Should've snaked it the first time.


----------



## nealtw

We all got distracted by the shinny object. The ugly flange.


----------



## Snoonyb

The new WC is an elongated bowl, right height model.

In public restrooms these are mandatory in handicapped stalls, the difference between residential and commercial, is in commercial the seat must be split.


----------



## bud16415

We all know public toilet seats are U shaped and called a split front, but how many of you know why they are required to be that way? 

No fare asking your smart phone or doing google.


----------



## Snoonyb

They also do not have a seat cover.


----------



## johnjh2o

bud16415 said:


> We all know public toilet seats are U shaped and called a split front, but how many of you know why they are required to be that way?
> 
> No fare asking your smart phone or doing google.



There not called split front there called open front and the round ones are called closed front.


----------



## Snoonyb

The term "open front" is an evolution from the original reference, split front.


----------



## bud16415

you can get them with and without a lid / seat cover. johnjh2o is correct the most common name they go under is open front.


----------



## havasu

Not to divert the OP, but why are these open fronts (split fronts) required in commercial settings? Are they considered better for handicapped?


----------



## bud16415

havasu said:


> Not to divert the OP, but why are these open fronts (split fronts) required in commercial settings? Are they considered better for handicapped?



nope guess again :rofl:


----------



## Snoonyb

It has to do with "draping rods".


----------



## johnjh2o

Snoonyb said:


> The term "open front" is an evolution from the original reference, split front.



That must have been quite some time ago seeing as I have been in the plumbing business since the late 50's  and have always called them open front.


----------



## Snoonyb

We bought our from Goldenwest Pipe and Supply in SoCa and asked split front seats, took the box and installed them, for over 40yrs.

It's terminology.


----------



## nealtw

I googled split front and open front came up, must be a local thing.
https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=cr&ei=kEPrUr33HsyFogSg2IKIDA#q=split+front+toilet+seat


----------



## havasu

I get the obvious benefits of the "U" shaped seat, but if our government feels they are better for commercial applications, why has it not worked in homes? I have never seen a "U" shaped seat in someone's home??


----------



## Snoonyb

There are all kinds of establishments where an "uninformed" owner does their own maintenance, and are unaware of ADA requirements, where the seats are replaced with closed seats.

In residential it's probably a matter of aesthetics, and only accessibility meets ADA.


----------



## slownsteady

So now i have to look up "draping rods" also????


----------



## nealtw

slownsteady said:


> So now i have to look up "draping rods" also????



Then you need to know whether it is the upper or lower one, or the left or right one.


----------



## Snoonyb

Or, just keep them in-hand, so they don't, drape.


----------



## inspectorD

If you must know.. the split seats are so when you positively have to sit..and there is no nesting material..you can remove your socks, and install onto each side of the seat as a cover... honestly, the draper rods had me laughin..:trophy:


----------

