# Raising the ceiling in an old house?



## zannej (Mar 1, 2017)

Some of you have probably read some of my posts where I mention my friend who had his house burn in a fire. A lot of the drywall was destroyed and he's pretty much gutting the insides and taking out anything that isn't load-bearing.

The ceiling burned up pretty badly too so he is considering trying to raise it up. Currently it is low enough that a ceiling hugger ceiling fan almost hits people in the head. I think it's 7' or lower.

The house is single story wood frame. I will have to look at the ceiling to see how it is constructed-- I *think* it might have shiplap or something like that-- not sure. Next time I'm there I'll try to get pics.

So my questions are:
1. How difficult is it to raise a ceiling and how would one proceed with this?
2. Can my friend just drywall up on the A-frame of the roof from the underside?
(I sort of suspect "no" for the second one, but would like to be able to explain to him why).

I told him he would probably need to have a little bit of airflow space and then have a roof vent so that maybe if he does the ceiling at a slightly different pitch it might work.

Any idea of the costs involved and what would be the least expensive method?


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## nealtw (Mar 1, 2017)

The ceiling joist is also called a rafter tie. A rafter tie holds the two outside walls from spreading out.
The rafter tie can be on top of the wall or anywhere in the bottom third if the rafter.

So as long as he has rafters and joists and not trusses he could just remove one ceiling joist at a time cut it to fit and nail it to the rafters say 18" higher..
That would leave him with a slope on both sides where the rafters are exposed adding to the rafters in that area to allow insulation and an air space.
So yes can be done.


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## zannej (Mar 2, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The ceiling joist is also called a rafter tie. A rafter tie holds the two outside walls from spreading out.
> The rafter tie can be on top of the wall or anywhere in the bottom third if the rafter.
> 
> So as long as he has rafters and joists and not trusses he could just remove one ceiling joist at a time cut it to fit and nail it to the rafters say 18" higher..
> ...


Thank you, neal!
I didn't think he could just take out the rafters entirely. I'm guessing that the rafters can't go too much higher or else they would not offer enough support?

I wonder if the rafters could just be left exposed and then somewhere below the roof level it could be drywalled. My workshop has a similar setup-- although the underside of the roof just has some sort of insulation covered by a cloth tarp and no drywall anywhere inside. But then, he wouldn't be able to have ceiling fans unless he added special supports for them and the wiring would be ugly. LOL. But, I think he cares more about function than looks. He doesn't ever intend to sell the house.


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## nealtw (Mar 2, 2017)

zannej said:


> Thank you, neal!
> I didn't think he could just take out the rafters entirely. I'm guessing that the rafters can't go too much higher or else they would not offer enough support?
> 
> I wonder if the rafters could just be left exposed and then somewhere below the roof level it could be drywalled. My workshop has a similar setup-- although the underside of the roof just has some sort of insulation covered by a cloth tarp and no drywall anywhere inside. But then, he wouldn't be able to have ceiling fans unless he added special supports for them and the wiring would be ugly. LOL. But, I think he cares more about function than looks. He doesn't ever intend to sell the house.



We are talking about the ties or joists not the rafters  Rafters are the pieces under the roof sheeting.
He can go up 1/3 of the height of the attic and everything is still fine.

As the lumber is salvageable the cost would be near nothing  but nails and a few boards.


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## zannej (Mar 2, 2017)

nealtw said:


> We are talking about the ties or joists not the rafters  Rafters are the pieces under the roof sheeting.
> He can go up 1/3 of the height of the attic and everything is still fine.
> 
> As the lumber is salvageable the cost would be near nothing  but nails and a few boards.


Excellent! 

Oops. Got my terms mixed up.

In terms of insulation and so forth, is it bad to put insulation up in the rafters? Is that an area that needs air circulation? I know very little about roofs, but I've heard vaguely about air circulation and the need for roof vents so moisture doesn't accumulate in the attic space.

Now I just have to wait for a decent hour to tell my friend. I discovered that all the time I was messaging him on FB at weird hours, it was making his phone ding and sometimes waking him up (which makes me wonder why he doesn't just mute his phone or turn it off while he's sleeping). For me, I keep Facebook closed and then check it on my PC so I don't see the messages until I load it and look. It never occurred to me that I was "blowing up" his phone. LOL.

Maybe I should just google stuff about proper roof construction...
Save​


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## nealtw (Mar 2, 2017)

zannej said:


> Excellent!
> 
> Oops. Got my terms mixed up.
> 
> ...



The area of the eaves need vent and vents near the peak of the roof gives it ventilation so the trick is to insulate and leave room for that air flow.

So when we build stuff like that the rafter are made out of 2x10 to have enough space. So if your friend raises his ceiling the sloped area would just need some extra on the rafters
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-7q2J1mqo[/ame]


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## Gary (Mar 2, 2017)

When I raised our living room ceiling I vaulted it by basically building a second set of rafters under the existing rafters about 18" lower. I ran a ridge pole under the existing ridge pole and used plywood gussets to tie the two together. Supported it in the wall on one end and on the brick fireplace on the other end. Then ran the rafters down to the wall studs parallel with the existing rafters and tied those together with gussets. One obstacle I had was keeping the outside wall from bowing out as that wall was held plumb by the ceiling joists I had to remove. I put temporary joists in above the ceiling to hold everything plumb. I built soffits on the sides of the room that hid a header laying flat on the outside wall, tied into the rafters & wall studs.  That supports the wall from bowing and doubles as a race for indirect lighting. I sistered 2''x6'' Studs against the original studs on the outside wall to even out the wall. That part of the house is 100+ yrs. old & the rough cut 2'x4's were all over the place.
The other side I built the header above the new rafters to support the the wall. then boxed in an arch under that just for cosmetic reasons. That wall is a transition wall for an addition. I jacked the header up under the top plate. Added a soffit to mirror the header soffit on the opposite wall. The 18" gap gave me plenty of room for insulation and venting. Been 20 years now & that part of the house didn't even have drywall cracks after the EF3 tornado we had a year & a half ago. 
The room had a 9' ceiling before. Now the soffits are at 8' and the peak of the vault is 12', so It made a huge difference in the look of the room.


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## nealtw (Mar 2, 2017)

Gary said:


> When I raised our living room ceiling I vaulted it by basically building a second set of rafters under the existing rafters about 18" lower. I ran a ridge pole under the existing ridge pole and used plywood gussets to tie the two together. Supported it in the wall on one end and on the brick fireplace on the other end. Then ran the rafters down to the wall studs parallel with the existing rafters and tied those together with gussets. One obstacle I had was keeping the outside wall from bowing out as that wall was held plumb by the ceiling joists I had to remove. I put temporary joists in above the ceiling to hold everything plumb. I built soffits on the sides of the room that hid a header laying flat on the outside wall, tied into the rafters & wall studs.  That supports the wall from bowing and doubles as a race for indirect lighting. I sistered 2''x6'' Studs against the original studs on the outside wall to even out the wall. That part of the house is 100+ yrs. old & the rough cut 2'x4's were all over the place.
> The other side I built the header above the new rafters to support the the wall. then boxed in an arch under that just for cosmetic reasons. That wall is a transition wall for an addition. I jacked the header up under the top plate. Added a soffit to mirror the header soffit on the opposite wall. The 18" gap gave me plenty of room for insulation and venting. Been 20 years now & that part of the house didn't even have drywall cracks after the EF3 tornado we had a year & a half ago.
> The room had a 9' ceiling before. Now the soffits are at 8' and the peak of the vault is 12', so It made a huge difference in the look of the room.



You have a few things working in your favor that might not be in other houses so with out knowing exactly why your roof works, I would not suggest others copy it.

1. you supported the ridge.
2 you converted rafters to trusses
3 you have a shelf where the ceiling used to be.


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## zannej (Mar 2, 2017)

Neal, thanks for the video. I sent it to my friend and he liked it. 

Gary, that is a beautiful job on that ceiling-- I really love the detail with the curved top masonry thing with the clock in it. That is very cool and unique.

The shelf at former roof level is awesome too.

My friend's house is old wood and tin roof. Nothing very fancy.


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## Forlorn (Aug 2, 2021)

Well, it depends, actually. If your friend has rafters and joists and not trusses, he could remove one ceiling joist at a time. In this case, he can do it, and this is actually the most straightforward example. I have also wanted to raise the ceiling in my living room, however, I do not have rafters and the constructors told me that it would cost me way more, and they would have to destroy some walls.


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## Forlorn (Aug 6, 2021)

Forlorn said:


> Well, it depends, actually. If your friend has rafters and joists and not trusses, he could remove one ceiling joist at a time. In this case, he can do it, and this is actually the most straightforward example. I have also wanted to raise the ceiling in my living room, however, I do not have rafters and the constructors told me that it would cost me way more, and they would have to destroy some walls.


Thankfully I haven't done that, as it would cause some terrible headaches to me, as I am a very undecided person. I mean, I am trying to buy online best house signs, and I cannot decide myself over which one I should take, as I like all of them.


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