# Chris



## frodo

oh where oh where has Chris gone, oh where oh where could he be.

I looked all over la,  he loaded a van and POOF he was gone


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## havasu

He is currently in Idaho playing rancher for his 2,000 head of potatoes.


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## frodo

guess we need to start call him spud


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## Chris

I'm alive. Been counting potatoes all week.


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## havasu

Hello Spud!


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## Chris

I've also been enjoying my visit to America. It's like being in a different country from California.  Went to the dmv and there were seven chairs and one person ahead of me. And the people were happy.


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## havasu

No kidding? I hear the Idaho driving test consists of placing two potatoes on the counter and if you answer "two", you get your license?


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## Chris

I wish it were that easy. I had to count to three


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## havasu

That is why you have a zipper, right?


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## Chris

Yup...............


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## havasu

Chris said:


> Yup...............



Damn, he even now sounds like an Idahoan rancher.:rofl:


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## oldognewtrick

Life in the fly over is pretty nice isn't it Chris. Don't tell anyone though...,,


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## Chris

oldognewtrick said:


> Life in the fly over is pretty nice isn't it Chris. Don't tell anyone though...,,



Loving every second of it. But if anyone asks it's a horrible place to be.

I'm heading back to california in the morning. Really don't want to go or have anything to do with that state anymore. Need to figure out what I am going to do with my company. I'm not happy with the guy I hired to help in the office. Have a few houses to sell there as well. If I closed my company and sold most of my real estate I could buy about five rentals here which would give me enough income to live comfortably. Then I could find a government job with a good pension and benefits. Or start something up here? All week I have ignored my company and it has been stress free and a good feeling.


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## frodo

wait till your cable goes out,  while your on the phone reporting the problem
the cable guy pulls up in the drive.  

they have nothing to do,,so service is great.


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## frodo

Chris said:


> Loving every second of it. But if anyone asks it's a horrible place to be.
> 
> I'm heading back to california in the morning. Really don't want to go or have anything to do with that state anymore. Need to figure out what I am going to do with my company. I'm not happy with the guy I hired to help in the office. Have a few houses to sell there as well. If I closed my company and sold most of my real estate I could buy about five rentals here which would give me enough income to live comfortably. Then I could find a government job with a good pension and benefits. Or start something up here? All week I have ignored my company and it has been stress free and a good feeling.



sell everything, except

dump truck, trailer, hoe,  d 6 or smaller dozer

1 man in a rural area can make a damn good living hauling gravel and clearing pads for houses


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## Chris

Guess I need to look into a dozer. I'm not sure what I want to do but I am leaning more into closing down the company I have as it is just a bunch of stress in California. I am looking into if I can incorperate in Idaho and move my assets.


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## havasu

I do know you seem much happier when you are not dealing with business worries. Money will come and go, but you only have one healthy body. What does your wife say? What about her employment?


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## frodo

Havasu is right,  refer to the boss,,

short story.

when I transferred To Texas from Colorado to do the Johnson building. 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Robert+E.+Johnson+Building,+105+E+15th+St,+Austin,+TX+78701/@30.2776217,-97.7383023,3a,75y,141h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soRZCPmxSszU9UMVhybKg8g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DoRZCPmxSszU9UMVhybKg8g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D141.20464%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x37bd8e5143541513!8m2!3d30.2771677!4d-97.7383962!6m1!1e1

We arrived in Austin during a 100 day drought and over 100degreees
I was used to cool breeze 80 degree weather.
the fist day at work I spent on a metal deck, getting it ready to pour concrete. at 2am.  the deck cooked me like  bacon in a skillet.
when i got home,  I told my wife.
stop unpacking and put that **** back in the box !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chris

Wife is quitting her job at the end of the year. She wants the move as much as I do. This place is no comparison to california when it comes to places to raise your kids. This is what I imagine people were like a long time ago, everyone is polite, nice, and genuine, you don't find much of that in california. Oh well, hitting the road now to head back to california, be there in about 16 hours


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## frodo

Chris said:


> Wife is quitting her job at the end of the year. She wants the move as much as I do. This place is no comparison to california when it comes to places to raise your kids. This is what I imagine people were like a long time ago, everyone is polite, nice, and genuine, you don't find much of that in california. Oh well, hitting the road now to head back to california, be there in about 16 hours




I am happy, that you guys are happy....:thbup::thbup::thbup::thbup:


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## Speedbump

It's a great feeling and a huge load off your mind.  When I moved from Michigan where I was born and Drilled Wells in the Tundra for too many years freezing my toosh off.  We moved to Florida and never looked back.  I can still remember the weight that was lifted off me.  A great feeling.  I have never been to Idaho, but have been told I was conceived there.


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## Chris

Idaho is beautiful, it gets cold but not arctic cold. This is in Oregon on the way home. 

View attachment 1480259481481.jpg


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## frodo

buy 2 --90 lb sacks of concrete,
  or,,  get an 18 wheeler inner tube, cut it in half,  wire the end closed and fill with sand, 
you will need them in your truck, during the winter for traction .

put in the bed over the axles


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## Chris

I have 4 wheel drive in both my trucks so hopefully that is all I need. I grew up in the snow so that helps. 

View attachment 1480267242532.jpg


View attachment 1480267264266.jpg


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## havasu

Did the kids go with you? How do you keep them calm for that grueling 16 hour drive?


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## HandyOne

Chris, I hope your drive to California is safe and not too many headaches.   Do ditch your company and go to Idaho and LIVE.     

I've walked away from something sorta like that once, and went down in income severely, but I don't regret not having to pay the high price to have the $$$ that many covet.   I always ask someone that wants to be rich in money, if they are willing to pay the price.  They just don't get it.     You are about to ditch the high price and LIVE.

Best wishes to leaving the extreme rat race.


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## Chris

havasu said:


> Did the kids go with you? How do you keep them calm for that grueling 16 hour drive?



They have been doing road trips since born so they are used to it. They sing and play and count and watch a movie on occasion, we just got the portable DVD as we have been pretty against electronics babysitting.


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## Chris

Angie said:


> Chris, I hope your drive to California is safe and not too many headaches.   Do ditch your company and go to Idaho and LIVE.
> 
> I've walked away from something sorta like that once, and went down in income severely, but I don't regret not having to pay the high price to have the $$$ that many covet.   I always ask someone that wants to be rich in money, if they are willing to pay the price.  They just don't get it.     You are about to ditch the high price and LIVE.
> 
> Best wishes to leaving the extreme rat race.



I'm the same way, people think I'm crazy for wanting to walk away. They don't know how I can walk away from a great living. For me it's easy, money doesn't mean much to me and wealth is not cash.


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## Chris

Made it home. 900 miles in 16 hours 11 minutes with two kids in the truck towing my 25k backhoe trailer. 

View attachment 1480305678144.jpg


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## chrisn

Chris said:


> I've also been enjoying my visit to America. It's like being in a different country from California.  Went to the dmv and there were seven chairs and one person ahead of me. And the people were happy.



Welcome to the real world


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## Chris

As I sit here in my driveway getting ready to go to one of my job sites I find myself torn. I no longer want to be stressed and run this business but I also like to earn a wage. I think I am most afraid of starting over. I have worked very hard to get my company to where it is today.

I could try and keep my company going from another state but then I am really not getting away and I'm sure the stress will follow. 

I could close it down and then start a new one up there?

Or when I sell a couple houses I have here I will have a good size chunk of change, I could buy a few rentals and not worry about my mortgage at all or I can take that money and try my luck at flipping some homes which is what I would like to do but scared of loosing my wad.

What would you do?


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## nealtw

You don't think you could sell the business?


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## oldognewtrick

Chris said:


> As I sit here in my driveway getting ready to go to one of my job sites I find myself torn. I no longer want to be stressed and run this business but I also like to earn a wage. I think I am most afraid of starting over. I have worked very hard to get my company to where it is today.
> 
> *I could try and keep my company going from another state but then I am really not getting away and I'm sure the stress will follow. *
> I could close it down and then start a new one up there?
> 
> Or when I sell a couple houses I have here I will have a good size chunk of change, I could buy a few rentals and not worry about my mortgage at all or I can take that money and try my luck at flipping some homes which is what I would like to do but scared of loosing my wad.
> 
> What would you do?



I'd advise against this. Long distance romances seldom work. Starting over takes time, I've done it twice.


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## Speedbump

Me too, starting over isn't that bad if your young.  
I sold my business and thought it would never happen.  I guess stranger things have happened.  There are several free on line sites that will let you list your business.  Give it a try and see what happens.  You can even list it on Craigslist.  Believe it or not, that's how I sold mine.


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## nealtw

If you can't sell the business, a competitor might be interested in phone numbers and customer list, for a price.


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## Chris

I would really like to keep the assets I have over a million dollars worth of equipment. I guess I could sell the name and number and contacts?


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## nealtw

Chris said:


> I would really like to keep the assets I have over a million dollars worth of equipment. I guess I could sell the name and number and contacts?



You increase that value to that sometimes if you contract to work for the new guy for a short period as salesman to promote the new guy or introduce his salesman to your customers and don't forget that some of your employees may add value, promote them to the new outfit.
New outfit may be a slightly different business and may need some equipment.
Anything sold at fair market value can be replaced with out the cost of moving it.


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## frodo

Chris said:


> They have been doing road trips since born so they are used to it. They sing and play and count and watch a movie on occasion, we just got the portable DVD as we have been pretty against electronics babysitting.



we used to play slug bug
every time you saw a vw bug,,you said slug bug and hit your sister on the arm

i mean,,,you both watch for the bug..lol


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## slownsteady

We used to call it 'punch buggy'


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## Chris

So I did it, I got the ball rolling. I am starting up a new sole prop business here in CA to keep doing small jobs. I am stopping all work with the corporation at the beginning of the year and keeping it open one more year just to close everything out and get paid from some of these contractors. I am taking most all my equipment up to Idaho except a couple pieces for my foreman and one guy to use. My plan is to sell two of my homes here and take that money and flip a few homes, if that goes well my next chapter in life will be flipping homes and doing tractor and dump truck work. I am pretty excited about this and really think I will do well with it.


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## slownsteady

It sounds like a plan. best of luck with your new ventures.


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## havasu

Good for you Chris. Get my bunk room finished so I have a place to stay after towing stuff up to the new ranch.


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## Chris

Guest room is already set up. Anytime you want to visit come on up. 

I'm looking forward to less stress in my life and a slower pace of life. Hopefully I am making a good decision. Everyone thinks I am crazy for throwing away a successful career.


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## havasu

I watched you work your *** off for what 5-6 years? Even my g/f says you are "one of a kind" who turned rags to riches just on your hard work and dedication. We both have no doubt you will find your special niche up there and once again make boatloads of money. It is in your genes to succeed. Never look back!


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## Chris

I started my company almost 9 years ago. Started it with a 3k tax return and some elbow grease. Hopefully I can do it again. Thanks for the good wishes.


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## Chris

My brain is wrecked this morning. Couldn't sleep wondering if I am making the right decisions. I am pretty much throwing away a successful career and stable life in California. All in the hopes of having less stress and spending more time with my family and raising my kids.


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## Speedbump

Don't second guess yourself.  You will do just fine.  The only problem I would have with your move is the temperatures.  I hear it gets below 80° in Idaho sometimes.


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## HandyOne

Chris, I think you will look back and wonder what took you so long to do it.


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## Chris

Speedbump said:


> Don't second guess yourself.  You will do just fine.  The only problem I would have with your move is the temperatures.  I hear it gets below 80° in Idaho sometimes.



It's the 100+ that bothers me. I here the inversions can suck in the winter time, hopefully I am far enough out of town that it wont bother me.


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## Chris

Angie said:


> Chris, I think you will look back and wonder what took you so long to do it.



I am hoping so.


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## frodo

IMO..Right decision.

move all assets to spudville,  leave California,  COMPLETELY,  your idea of starting a tractor company and flipping houses is a sound decision.
keep it family,  hire your wife to do your books and answer the phone.

i do not know about there. but here,  the local hardware store has a bulletin board,  the locals put there business cards on
and the store points customers to the board


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## Chris

It's the same way there with the bulletin board.


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## Chris

I'm telling my office staff today that I am closing things down soon. Merry Christmas I guess.


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## oldognewtrick

Be sure and let them know that the favorable business climate is responsible for your decision.


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## Chris

They still won't get it, they think I just sit back and count my money while they are under paid and over worked. I have one guy on salary that takes more time off than works and still complains if I ask him to do anything after 3pm and wants to get paid some sort of overtime.


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## havasu

I told you I could be hired to help you on the jobs, but for some strange reason, you don't want me showing up in my sequinned G string. Your loss!


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## Chris

I'm not sure if that would hurt business or help it at this point.


Speaking of my salary guy it's 8:15 and he is nowhere to be found. I wonder what his excuse will be today? He used to call or text me to see when I would be coming into the office just so he could show up just before me. I caught onto that and started telling him I would be in at 9 and show up at 8 or say I would be there at 7 and show up at 10. that pissed him off. I am giving him his notice today so I don't really care anymore. Can only waste so much of the companies money before I get mad.


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## inspectorD

Glad to hear your moving on.. The business was built once, and can always be done again.. never second guess yourself, its gotten you this far. 
I just did the same thing, and im busy as all get out, not much time for anything else at the moment. 
Good luck, and I look forward to following your journey, sounds like a nice change.


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## Chris

inspectorD said:


> Glad to hear your moving on.. The business was built once, and can always be done again.. never second guess yourself, its gotten you this far.
> I just did the same thing, and im busy as all get out, not much time for anything else at the moment.
> Good luck, and I look forward to following your journey, sounds like a nice change.



I can't wait for the slow down in life. Right now I work 12+ hours a day and can't walk away from my phone. I pay more money in taxes and insurances in this state than anywhere else in the country and everyone is greedy.

On another note I just told my late office guy that I am shutting things down, told him I would give him two weeks and he wants a months pay.


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## oldognewtrick

Chris said:


> I can't wait for the slow down in life. Right now I work 12+ hours a day and can't walk away from my phone. I pay more money in taxes and insurances in this state than anywhere else in the country and everyone is greedy.
> 
> On another note I just told my late office guy that I am shutting things down, told him I would give him two weeks and he wants a months pay.



Ask him how one week sounds...


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## Chris

I sent him to the courthouse to pay one of my lucky California revenue making commercial driving fines and he was done within an hour and told me he was going to go home for a while since I don't need him for anything today. I am thinking of giving him a day. Why waste the money.


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## Chris

This guy just doesn't get it. I was giving him a month before I let him go until today when he showed up at 10 and then took and hour and a half lunch and the left at 3. What is up with people's mentality?


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## Speedbump

You have to remember, they will only take as much as you allow them to have.  You have apparently been too lenient with this guy.  Being the boss is the loneliest job; and it is that way because you can't become friends with your employees.  They take too much for granted, then don't know how to act when you try to rein them in.


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## bud16415

When you get to your new town stop and get to know the farmers. Most of the time in the winter they are doing equipment repairs and such. Give them your card and chew the fat a few minutes and tell them you are starting up and what you will be offering. Another contact on the excavation side is any golf courses around. 

These kind of guys will pass along contacts to you and also build a word of mouth business. Out in the real world that&#8217;s still the way it is done. They want someone that can respond to a problem and get it done quick and right.


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## Chris

I already do golf course work so that should be easy.


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## slownsteady

If you are in an area that doesn't have city sewers, septic fields are a regular business. And there is always the occasional french drain to install.
And remember not to try to do it all; or you will just be bringing the stress along with you


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## bud16415

Around here we have septic systems and then septic systems. You will find this in most of rural America. Many homes had a leach pipe run out back and after about 20 years they would plug and they would ditch a new one a few feet over and start new. Cost about 500 bucks. Now they have rules and perk testing and regulations and a mound system costs about 10 grand. People just cant afford it a lot of the time and we have this one guy doing the midnight special they call it. He is in and out in the middle of the night and takes about 3 hours max. Everyone looks the other way and to be honest they seem to work just fine. I doubt you could get away with that on the left coast. my point is be ready for a different culture.


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## Speedbump

> Everyone looks the other way and to be honest they seem to work just fine. I doubt you could get away with that on the left coast. my point is be ready for a different culture.


Probably as good or better than a berm system.  And you have no pump to worry about.


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## KULTULZ

Chris said:


> I sent him to the courthouse to pay one of my lucky California revenue making commercial driving fines and he was done within an hour and told me he was going to go home for a while since I don't need him for anything today. I am thinking of giving him a day. Why waste the money.



I would give him a layoff notice and call it a day. The man doesn't want to work, plain and simple. What is the ruling for firing in CA?

How does it work in CA when you shut down a business and have a large layoff?


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## frodo

bud16415 said:


> Around here we have septic systems and then septic systems. You will find this in most of rural America. Many homes had a leach pipe run out back and after about 20 years they would plug and they would ditch a new one a few feet over and start new. Cost about 500 bucks. Now they have rules and perk testing and regulations and a mound system costs about 10 grand. People just cant afford it a lot of the time and we have this one guy doing the midnight special they call it. He is in and out in the middle of the night and takes about 3 hours max. Everyone looks the other way and to be honest they seem to work just fine. I doubt you could get away with that on the left coast. my point is be ready for a different culture.



that is true
around here, you run your leach field out.  leave the pipe open on the end
and day light the end of the pipe


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## bud16415

frodo said:


> that is true
> around here, you run your leach field out.  leave the pipe open on the end
> and day light the end of the pipe



Around here you can do that also and if the county, state guy catches you. You are in big trouble. New construction forget it has to be passed ten ways from Sunday. I know a builder that was buying small homes in good location and doing a remod that was tearing down 99.9% of the house and building a new house. What he really  wanted was the well and septic grandfather in. one house he left one block in the foundation. 

Repairs are a tough call if you cant do it yourself. Most contractors dont want to stick their neck out so they quote it by the book and then dont get the job because some fly by the seat of the pants comes along and daylights a pipe. I rented a backhoe and did my own the way I wanted and so far so good.


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## Chris

So I told my office guy I was letting him go and since it was Christmas time I would give him til the 15th. Well I haven't gotten more than a few hours per day out of him since then. He is on salary so there is not much I can do about that. I came in today to tell him I don't need his milking anymore and to stop the bleeding and I found a request for the day off that he gave me last month. I just can't get rid of him. All I need from him is to fill out some paperwork and he can kick rocks.


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## Chris

So he is officially fired as of 20 minutes ago. He tried to keep my gas card and toll transponder. He filled up his personal car three times in the last week and ran up almost 40 bucks in tolls yesterday. He didn't want to come by my office because he said he was looking for a job, he forgot that I had already paid him through the 15th and that he was on my time. He was pissed at me because of all this. I told him he would still be here if he would have just showed up to work. I told him I should call the cops for all the theft.


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## frodo

sounds like a do------bag,
you are better off with out him


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## slownsteady

It's customary & usual around here to let a guy go immediately and give him two week severance. That way he has no access to anything that you don't want to share. The two-week notice thing is more about an employee giving notice.


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## Chris

slownsteady said:


> It's customary & usual around here to let a guy go immediately and give him two week severance. That way he has no access to anything that you don't want to share. The two-week notice thing is more about an employee giving notice.



Same here, I was just trying to be a nice guy around the holidays.


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## oldognewtrick

How's that working out?


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## slownsteady

As an employee, i would think that two weeks pay without having to come in would be better than having to come in with knowing you are counting the days. 2 weeks pay while you have a chance to update your résume and start job hunting. It always sucks to be notified before the holidays, but that would depend on your schedule for moving and closing things out.


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## Chris

As an employee 52 weeks pay for no work sounds great. As a business owner I like to feel I got something for my money. It's really not normal to get any severance pay but normally just let go


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## nealtw

Do you have to pay annual vacation and days like Xmas?


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## Chris

No law requires it. If I offer vacation pay than I have to pay personal time but there is nothing saying I have to pay any time off. California is an at will state which means you can quit or be fired at any time with or without reason.


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## Chris

California is funny in how the employment laws work. They force a lot if you offer anything but if you don't offer anything than you are exempt from most. Kind of forces you to either offer the world or give nothing. I have been trying for years to give my guys health insurance but the policy alone is over 5k a month and then they all have to pay the same or more than they would getting insurance on their own. It's a failed system that will probably never get better


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## nealtw

Chris said:


> No law requires it. If I offer vacation pay than I have to pay personal time but there is nothing saying I have to pay any time off. California is an at will state which means you can quit or be fired at any time with or without reason.



Hhm 4% vacation pay, 6 after 5 years and 8 after ten and so on.

10 paid long weekends ,Xmas etc.

severance
After three months  one week
After 12 months  two weeks
After three years  one week for each completed year of employment, to a maximum of eight weeks

Want to fire someone only after 1 verbal warning
1 written warning


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## Chris

Sure does protect the employee.  What protection does the employer have say like in my case.

Employee is on month two, starts showing up late, taking long lunches and arguing when I ask why. Leaves early almost every day. Then starts stealing, filling personal car from company gas card, tolls are run up on employees day off and petty cash turns up missing. What is the employer allowed to do or are they still forced to give money to this person?


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## nealtw

Steeling if you can prove it, gone today, he still gets paid time earned and vacation pay but that is all, and he is not going to get UI either.

Hourly  employees needs two warnings for late lunch and so on, still gets paid earned time and vacation, no UI or severance.

Not sure how they deal with salaried people, that might be trickier, might need a contract or some writtin understanding of performance when hired. 

My ex wife wanted to keep company cards when she left. I just reported the cards stolen, end of story.


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## Chris

He stole and didn't even try to hide it. On my gas cards you have to put in a code then mileage and the system keeps track of everything from MPG to oil changes. He was filling his car at 11 gallons each time instead of the 30 it took in the truck. He was filling on the weekends when the truck was in the shop and he was also putting in his mileage from his car. Filled it up monday when I was driving his work truck. Then the toll transponder kept getting used on his days off. I just went to his computer and he left his internet open and the pages that are up are Facebook, A dating site and his payment invoices for supervised visitation. A real winner.


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## oldognewtrick

You should of had some fun with his facebook page...


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## Chris

I still can but not that kind of guy.


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## Mastercarpenty

I hate having to let someone go but if they've screwed up that badly then I do what I must. SC is also an "At Will" state and without a written work contract naming specifics, on firing they are due only wages earned up to that point. If you've promised something you can be sued in civil court to recover that, but the burden of adequate proof is on the plaintiff, it will take them at least a year to get the case heard, and they have to pay lawyers and legal fees out-of-pocket (recovered only on a win) so it's usually not worth doing.

The technique here is to not tell the employee why they're being terminated on firing, only saying "You're not needed here anymore." If you say any more they can challenge the dismissal in court based on that. What has happened prior to that (warnings or punishments) is a separate matter as long as you say nothing to link it to the dismissal. 

Subcontractors have legal protections here unless they are notified that they are working "At Will" by the Contractor. The usual dismissal of them is done officially as "quality of work unacceptable" unless you have another mire solid specific to go by, and as subcontract is easier to deal with back in the office than employee most folks in construction work here are subcontracted instead of  employed.

_Every place is different with different laws and employment rules which as an employer you should know_.

I'm forgiving and pretty flexible as long as the work gets done and the customer stays happy, but I've got my 'sticking points' that I make very clear from the start. Quality has to be there- no excuses ever. Customer relations is my department but if the customer is unhappy with something you're going to hear a lot worse about that from me- no excuses ever. You will deliver what you say you will- if you can't do it don't say you can. Not much else bothers me as long as he job gets done like it should.

Sorry you're having to go through the crap Chris- I feel for you. Maybe you should consider a different approach on employment conditions, ask your Lawyer about that. And I hope the next guy turns out to be the ideal 'employee'- those guys are out there but they're rare.

Phil


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## frodo

Chris,  Next time you are by the steel yard,  Buy you some 3/8" ar 500 steel

when you shoot it,  you can hear it 100 yards away...  DING !! awsome sound,


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## slownsteady

what about ricochets from that thing?


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## havasu

Except an AR 10 or AR 15 will dent the hell out of it.


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## nealtw

slownsteady said:


> what about ricochets from that thing?



You watch to many movies.:hide:


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## havasu

We shoot steel targets all the time and have a rule. No shooting at steel unless 25' is between us and the steel, because it can and will ricochet back and get ya good.


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## nealtw

havasu said:


> We shoot steel targets all the time and have a rule. No shooting at steel unless 25' is between us and the steel, because it can and will ricochet back and get ya good.



Just like having live target practice.


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## nealtw

http://www.letargets.com/content/the-science-behind-steel-targets.asp


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## Chris

I have a bunch of 10" blind flanges. They are about an inch thick and 16" round. Was gonna scrap them but I think I will shoot them instead.


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## frodo

lean em at 20 degrees, to stop the ricochet


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## Chris

That and hanging them from a chain helps. They always hit the ground right below.


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## nealtw

....................


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## Chris

Sounds like our government.


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## slownsteady

Sounds like our lives.


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## Chris

Hate to say it but as I sit here almost 70 degrees in January bbqing some Carne asada on my back patio watching the city lights below me that I am going to miss this place


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## nealtw

More snow.


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## Chris

Nothing wrong with snow. Just taking advantage of 70 in January


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