# Faucet leaking under sink...



## Calman (Jun 4, 2014)

Hi folks,

 I have a problem detecting a leak from our kitchen faucet this past week and wonder if some kind soul could lend their expertise?

 To give you some background to the problem, we were carrying out countertop renos, so the faucet had to be removed (worked perfectly at this point).  After 2 weeks or so, we refitted the faucet, only to detect an issue with the water pressure.  So, I removed the spout foil head and found some debris which I removed (very small pieces of hard black plastic).  This cured the water pressure, but now the hot water tap didn't completely shut off - remained a thin trickle on the off position.  Doing some research on our Peerless kitchen faucet, I clued myself up on removing the cartridge and checking the seats/springs.   Both seats looked identically worn (shiny and flat on the top) ... so I went ahead and replaced the hot supply and now they both successfully shut off without a single drip!!

However, I am still experiencing dripping under the sink after this repair.  I have checked the water supply lines, which are tight and don't appear to be the source of the dripping.   If it helps, I have since learned that the dripping only occurs when the water has actively been used.   With both hot & cold valves turned on underneath the sink, the area stays dry and I can't see a single bead of water from the lock nuts on the underside of the faucet.   If I started washing dishes, using both hot and cold, frequent dripping would then occur under the sink and I would have to shut off both valves.

 Can I now assume that the cartridge(s) could be at fault? .. (of course, replacing the seats/springs alone was hopeful and easier on the wallet).

Any insight would me most welcome, as this is now becoming a "tiring problem".

 Kind Regards,
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 4, 2014)

Welcome to the site. Do you have a pull out faucet with a flexable hose? I have seen a simular problem with the fitting going to the hand hold part.


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## Calman (Jun 4, 2014)

Hi Neal!

 This is our faucet (or a model similar model number that "visually" looks identical).  We installed it approx. 2 years ago ... and as mentioned above, the problems only occurred after re-fitting it a couple of days ago.

http://www.peerlessfaucet.com/custo...tinued=discontinued&function=two-handle&group=

 All the best,
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 4, 2014)

Hopefully someone that knows more about it will come along.


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## havasu (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm going to guess you disturbed one of your drain lines during the re-installation.


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## Calman (Jun 4, 2014)

Sorry, but no, it's not related to the drain lines.

 The leak from underneath the sink, appears to be seeping through the particle board directly to the front of the faucet lock nuts.  So, I would assume that it's coming from the base (internal workings) of the faucet.

 The problem is, I don't know exactly what's causing it? ... O-Ring, Cartridge or some other issue.  

 Having replaced the faulty (hot supply) seat/springs - as it didn't completely shut off, I feel I should also replace the cold supply, just to rule it out and give piece of mind? 

 All I know at this point, is that the valves and water supply nuts are not the source of the problem.

 All the best,
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 4, 2014)

Call Peerless, should be under warrentee.


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 4, 2014)

Let's try to be systematic.  The drips usually show up on the underside of a supply line or the drain piping.  The water, obviously, came from up above somewhere.  You need to wedge yourself under the sink with a flashlight while the water is running.  Look carefully at the connection point under the faucet.  Wipe the area with a rag then look for water accumulation.

You should be able to isolate the source area.

If it is the faucet, you might need to put a bead of plumber's putty under the beauty plate which sits across the top of the sink up above.  You will need a basin wrench to tighten the nuts ... This could be difficult which explains why faucets are mounted to the sinks BEFORE the sink is dropped in the counter top.

Single handle (cartridge) faucets feed their hot and cold upward and the connections are made 1/2 way, transitioning from the flexible supply lines to the more rigid copper lines which got up and into the faucet.  Those connections can be leaking too.  You will need Teflon tape and two wrenches to make these connections water tight.

Sometimes, it is the supply line to the hand wand.  This is rare but you should look closely anyway.  The connection is the same as the hot/cold.

Plumbing is not magical but it does require focus and tenacity.  Remember:  You are smarter than the pipe!


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## nealtw (Jun 4, 2014)

Villa, this is the older style, two handle, no pull out, see the link in post 3


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## Calman (Jun 4, 2014)

Hi CallMeVilla,

 Yup indeed, I have done the "under sink crawl" many times in the last few days (initially to re-brace the sink, before discovering this faucet issue).   As mentioned above, the leak is definitely appearing above the valve and water supply connections, so basically where you tighten the locknuts underneath the faucet, water is dripping just outside this area.  It's difficult to see an actual stream direction, as the whole area gets wet, so looking up at it with a torch, I can only see frequent beads of water build up and drip.

 To update you slightly from my report above.  I concluded that no leak was present with both valves turned on and taps left off for 4 hours. Wiped everything dry and nothing to report.   After which, I decided to run the cold tap and let it run for a while, giving the spout a swing left/right a few times at the same time - still no drips/beads and all dry underneath.

 So .... unless something inconsistent is going on, I am now "assuming" that the problem is focused on the hot supply (O Ring/Seat/Cartridge).  

Thanks for your valuable opinion.  I will update you when I move onto the next step (ruling out each area "bit by bit").

 BTW - I saw one of the pipes wink at me, when my hours of frustration were at an all time high - so not sure if the pipe has a higher IQ than me??

 All the best,
 Cal


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 4, 2014)

AH, my bad.   Thanks Neal ... This means two cartridges or valves which can leak and the mixing crossover which feeds the faucet head.

Nonetheless, the supply lines will connect to the individual valves and if a leak is coming from there, it would be readily visible.  Dry the highest spot with the water running into the valve.  Wait, observe, shout "GOT YOU!" if it is leaking.  If not, move to the next connection, repeat process.

If the o-ring of the faucet is leaking, then the "drop point" should be near the center of the unit ...  Causing another shout out ...

This is all about systematic observation with a strong flashlight and some padding under your back.  Sucks to be under the sink, but somebody has to do it!


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## nealtw (Jun 5, 2014)

If I may, if all else fails pull it out and hook up the water and run it into a bucket so you can really see what going on.


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## Calman (Jun 5, 2014)

Many thanks for your assist folks - super appreciated!!!!!!!!

 Now then, I thought progress was being made in Godzilla sized boots, then without changing anything, I decided to do some dishes only using the cold supply (although the valve was turned on for hot, just didn't turn on the actual hot tap at any point).    Looked under the sink (which I now have a resident square basin in place, drip, Drip, DRIP ... which appears to be dropping on BOTH outer (front of sink as you approach it) sections of the locknut fixings. 

 Now then, I decided to turn my attention to the spout base.  The "chrome dome" was only hand tight, so I took it off and had a look at things under the hood.   Now, I am an amateur plumber, so not qualified to review a worn O-Ring, but to me, they looked okay.    However ......... I will upload a photo in my next post, as something doesn't sit well with me (although it could be perfectly normal, when viewed by you folks with genuine plumbing skills).  

 Stay tuned ...


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## Calman (Jun 5, 2014)

Oh!!! .. also Neal, my tiny amateur mind had that VERY idea.  As I am also doing tiling on the kitchen backsplash, the faucet will have to come out again (working or not) ... so I will "Attempt" to hook it up to the water supply flex lines, without travelling up through the countertop and report my findings on that test also.

 All the best,
 Cal


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## Calman (Jun 5, 2014)

Okay friends, here are three shots of the faucet, namely the base of the central spout.   Can anyone confirm the "scuffs" on either side of the brass fitting ... are they part of the sculpture or is something seriously wrong here???


















 All the best,
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 5, 2014)

They have done that so it fits in a jig tight when they drill the hole for the spout. My guess now is the lower O ring I would change them both.


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## Calman (Jun 5, 2014)

Interesting Neal!

 So, is it save to assume that what you detect, is a flattening Abrasion on the outer edge of the O-Rings? (particularly the lower one).

 I guess common sense would tell me that the reason I am not seeing any leaks above the base fitting (from spout base or tap handles etc) ... is maybe due to the fact that the white seal ring (my word for it lol) ... is creating a watertight area, but if the O-rings are failing, water is making it's way into the faucet base and down into the underside of the sink?

 Sorry, I like to think aloud, as it helps me learn.

 Anyway, thanks as always for the feedback - the faucet will be removed today, as I continue my kitchen tiling, but will certainly look at these O-rings, when I can re-focus on the faucet issue.

 Many thanks again!
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 5, 2014)

Water will take the easy route. Push it's way past the white seal or just fall down, which would you choose.  :banana:


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## Calman (Jun 5, 2014)

So true!!! ...

 Maybe one day very soon, I can start rehearsing my Banana Dance and the "faucet failure" will be a distant memory! lol

 So, time for some Scrambled Eggs on Toast, then it's time to remove the Faucet (for now) and crack on with Tiling.   Hmm, maybe "crack on" was not the best choice of terms back there??? lol lol







 All the best,
 Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 5, 2014)

I just stole your egg man and I will use it.


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## Calman (Jun 12, 2014)

Hi again Folks,

 Just to update you on the kitchen tap saga .... I've been busy tiling, so not had much of an opportunity to address the situation further.  However, we discovered a guy who works for a plumbing company in the street below us - so he came to take a look.   In his opinion, he 'thinks' it may be a fault with the spout (possible crack?) .... but in all honestly, with respect to his assessment, I would like a second opinion.   

 I would still like to try and hook it up under the sink, to see if I can learn anything new.  Also, for the small cost of replacing the O-Rings in the spout base, I would also be keen to rule that out too (although he thought the O-Rings looked okay).   At the point of replacing both seats/springs and O-rings in the spout base, I would be willing to give up on it, if a leak was still present after that time.

 All the best,
 Cal


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## Calman (Jun 14, 2014)

Update:

 Hi again folks!

 Okay, so I had a few chores and running around to deal with today, so took the "famous faucet" along with me.  I had a local plumbing related outfit take a look at it and they reckon it may just have "dried out".   Although they say that the O-rings in the spout base look slightly flattened, they feel they are still in good working order.   So ... perhaps, with the faucet sitting out for 1 month or so, the O-rings have dried out?? ... they had me purchase Plumber's Grease, so I guess I need to address that tomorrow.

 Here comes the obvious question ... do I have to remove the O-rings and "fully" rub grease into them?

 Thanks in advance!
 Cal


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 15, 2014)

Just replaced O-ring on a faucet ... had to slip it under the top nut because the neck would not easily detach ... Managed nicely, tightened the nut and BINGO!  No leaks.


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## Calman (Jun 15, 2014)

Well, if I try this Plumber's Grease and the existing O-Rings don't settle down, I think we will just call it a day and purchase a Moan at some point.

 All the best.


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## Mallot999 (Jun 17, 2014)

Check the aerator if it has one!  I have seen loose aerators/aerators with bad gaskets leak at the top of the aerator, down the INSIDE of faucet body, and out the counter-top cut outs to the cabinet below!  I often see this in bathroom faucets.  
     I usually check the aerator if I can't see an obvious leak!  That often does it!


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## Calman (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks for the tip Mallo ... but I don't see any issues there.

 Following up from my last post, I "finally" found some more time to look at this issue (between guests staying and other home renos).  

 So, I carefully took off the spout base O-Rings and rubbed them with Plumber's Grease and popped them back on.   The question is, should I leave them for a while to "work in" or replace the faucet immediately and let things "Settle in" naturally?? 

 A local plumber suggested trying the grease approach and if the O-rings were simply dried out (having had the faucet uninstalled for a good 1-2 months) ... then this "could" be the primary reason for the dripping underneath the sink.

 What would you suggest folks?

 All the best,
 Cal


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## bud16415 (Jun 24, 2014)

I don&#8217;t think O rings dry out like that and I don&#8217;t think grease will rejuvenate them in that way if they are dried out. If there was any question they were worn I would have just changed them in conjunction with the grease. To me the grease helps ease the assembly and avoid pinches etc. and then it might last a while helping with friction when parts move past them. Worn is worn IMHO.

In the old days with leather seals and packing valves and such there was more stuff swelling up and sealing and maybe grease would soften seals.


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## Calman (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback bud!

 In all honesty, I am a complete novice on plumbing, so trusting (to some degree) what others with potential knowledge are suggesting.  I'm really at the point of trying anything from feedback received.    

 Could I ask if you could please look back at my faucet photos from earlier pages? ... I know it's no guarantee, but would value your input on the "visual" condition of the spout base O-rings on our faulty faucet.

All the best,
 Cal


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## bud16415 (Jun 24, 2014)

I had been following your thread and agree with Neal in post 16. They look to be flat on the sides. New rings will do the trick I think. The tool to get them out looks like a dull dental pick but you can use anything similar to lift them out. Just be careful not to cut them. The new ones will roll right in. Take them out so you can size the new ones correctly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair


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## oldognewtrick (Jun 24, 2014)

Have you tried the trouble shooting Peerless page?

http://www.peerlessfaucet.com/customer-support/faq/leaks/index.html


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## Calman (Jun 24, 2014)

Well folks ... I think I FINALLY have a conclusive find!!!!!!!!!!!

 Not sure if it was clever or lucky, but I replaced the O-rings with a rub of grease, but swapping the top and bottom over.   Now, having rigged it all up again, making sure everything is nice and tight, I can clearly witness beads of water leaking from the chrome screw on dome at the base of the faucet (roughly a bead runs down every 4-5 seconds) .. so it is leaking and finding a way out on the front and back of that screw on dome, no matter if it's hand tight or wrench tightened. 

 So... would it be a clear deduction, that swapping over the O-rings is now showing me the failing O-ring from above, rather than water finding it's way down inside the base of the faucet previously, then seeping down into the cabinet below??

 Either way, It looks like it's time to take the O-rings walkabout and "hopefully" find the exact replacement parts for this faucet model.  It always makes me nervous when certain suppliers use the term "generic" .. so I will do my best to avoid that.    

 Anyway, thanks for everyone's quality feedback - I feel that I can finally move forward on this saga, although the ultimate reward will be to come back here and report NO LEAK!!!!  *fingers crossed*

 All the best,
 Cal


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## Calman (Jun 24, 2014)

Slight follow-up ...

Apparently, looking up the Peerless Part No *RP2055*.  I need these Delta compatible replacement O-rings (our spout base only requires two of course, which I would assume are the two beefier ones in this pack?).

http://www.deltafaucet.ca/repairparts/details/rp2055.html

All the best,
Cal


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## nealtw (Jun 24, 2014)

Once you have that figured out, we will just consider you as the Peerless expert.:banana:


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