# Ideas for a sloping floor



## eyik66 (Jan 5, 2015)

I purchased a home that has significant settling in the southwest corner which has resulted in sloping floors in half of the house. In that corner room, the floor drops about 3-4 inches in 14 feet. It's my first house, and was all I could really afford. Its a nice place all-in-all. 

I am wondering what my options are. Foundation repairs have been quoted at 18-40k....so that is kind of out of the question for now. 

That leaves two other options from what I've been reading:

One is to lift the floor joists up in that part of the house, and the other is to refloor and level the floor. 

The issue with leveling the floor, is that the room will be 4" shorter on one side, and with 8foot ceilings I'm sure that would be noticed. Has anyone tried something like this? Would a two inch difference in ceiling height be noticed over a 10ft span?

If I raise the floor joists, do you shim the sill plate? what do you use?

I'm sure I'm not even asking the right questions. I would be really interested to hear others experiences in trying to fix a problem like this. Thanks a million ,


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

Welcome to the site and congrats on squeesing into a house of your own.
So what was the repair that need to be done, we need picture of that from inside and out.
If you have a crawl space, is it dry and how much room do you have to work in down there?
We will be looking at jacking that side of the house.


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## eyik66 (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks for the help. The home has a foundation/basement. I'd like to get some of the slope out of the floors, I'll see if I can get some pictures. Can this type of home have the floor joists lifted and shimmed?


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

You didn't say the age of the house but for the most part it should be a platform house where the uptairs wall are sitting on the floor so when you jack up the floor the whole house is up.
There are always some ifs, buts and what abouts but usually it can be done with alot of patience and prep work.
Finished Basement?
How many floor above the basement?


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## eyik66 (Jan 5, 2015)

Thanks again. The home was built in 1964, its a single story home. 

So if the whole house lifts up with the floor, but the foundation stays down, where does the gap form? Its a brick home on the exterior of that matters. 

This was the alternative to jacking the floors up that I read about: http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how-to-level-a-floor/index.html

Like I said that also seems troublesome because the room will be shaped like a funhouse when I'm done unless I do something with the ceilings


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2015)

So is it a wood frame house with brick siding? 
Floor sleepers as in your link is a possibility but for me it would be last choice for the reason you mentioned.
The bricks do add a curve but don't give up to soon.


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

correct. Here are some pictures from the inspection report which kind of shows how the house is built. I can take better pictures tomorrow


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2015)

You said 3-4 inches in 14 ft, is that the front, back driveway side or fireplace side? Is there a center wall in the basement that the floor joists sit on and is it front to back or side to side?


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## beachguy005 (Jan 6, 2015)

I think the first thing you need to address is what is causing, or has caused the sinking, before you start leveling the floors.


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> You said 3-4 inches in 14 ft, is that the front, back driveway side or fireplace side? Is there a center wall in the basement that the floor joists sit on and is it front to back or side to side?



The drop is mostly side to side towards the driveway. The front corner of the home by the driveway is the lowest point. From front to back the house is a little sloped, but not nearly as much as in the side to side direction. 

There is a center wall in the basement, and once you walk past that wall upstairs, that is when you can feel the floor really drop. The floor joists run side-to-side in the home


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> I think the first thing you need to address is what is causing, or has caused the sinking, before you start leveling the floors.




I was told it happened years ago because the gutter was dumping right into the corner of the house.


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2015)

Are there cracks in the foundation and or brickwork?


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Are there cracks in the foundation and or brickwork?



yes. They have been filled with some sort of sealant it looks like. I have some pictures from the inspection. The cracks are on the southwest corner, on each wall. So the front wall of the house has a crack to the right of the stairs, and the right wall by the driveway has a crack about 4 feet in from the corner.


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## slownsteady (Jan 6, 2015)

Looks like the corner sunk. Any info from the inspector on footings? Do you have footings? Any damage visible in the basement walls? I would be removing all the stuff from that corner (rocks, plants, extra soil) to get a good look.
You need to study up on the construction of your house. Not only will it allow you to make educated decisions now, but the knowledge will serve you for as long as you are a homeowner.


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## bud16415 (Jan 6, 2015)

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

You will get quite a few different opinions and mine will just be one of them. Im not a professional contractor so my opinion is coming from a homeowner / handyman perspective for what thats worth. 

In your OP you said you had quotes between 18 & 40k. That in itself is a big range and raises the question to me is what did they find and what are they suggesting the repair to be. Along with these quotes did they have someone in the process that did a study to figure out what the problem is? 

There are two ways this could be going and the fix would be based around what one of the two is the current condition your house is in. First is something happened a long time ago maybe right after it was built and the footings went down on that corner and then took a set. There would have been damage all over the house if it went down 4 inches and then things were repaired and the house has been crooked but stable till now. Thats assuming the whole corner of the house went down. The second way is it is still moving over the years and is still an active problem. Those are the two modes the whole house could have dropped. 

Now a third option could be just the floor pulled away or was built incorrectly and dropped and things were touched up to make it look like it hadnt. 

You can tell a lot by investigation and all you need is a 4 foot level and a tape measure. Inside measure floor to ceiling around the house and tell us if any of the heights change. I know you said 4 inches but do the math with a level or get a string level and do an actual measurement. Outside check the level of the windows and the rows of bricks etc. try and figure out what is off and what was used to cover up what might have been off. Also look for new signs of things moving. 

IMHO I would not attempt jacking up your house as a DIY project as I feel I would be risking more damage than I could do good. 

Post what the quotes were all about and I think we can give you a better feel for what direction to go.


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum.
> 
> You will get quite a few different opinions and mine will just be one of them. I&#8217;m not a professional contractor so my opinion is coming from a homeowner / handyman perspective for what that&#8217;s worth.
> 
> ...





On both quotes, they wanted to dig around the house and install push piers. One company wanted to put piers around the entire home, and the other just wanted to do around the sunken corner. That was the difference between 18k and 40k. 

I've walked around with a level inside an out. If I draw a level chalk line outside, I can see that the bricks slope down. The basement is finished so I'm not sure what the foundation walls look like. I pulled all of the wallpaper off upstairs, and found some large cracks in the drywall that have been repaired. Probably 1" wide cracks from what I can see.


I know that the inspector said that the repairs on the outside look older, and that it hasn't moved since the repairs were made. Not the most reassuring thing I suppose. How does one determine when the home sunk and if it's still sinking? Should I take measurements and wait a year or two to see what happening before I do anything?


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## bud16415 (Jan 6, 2015)

eyik66 said:


> On both quotes, they wanted to dig around the house and install push piers. One company wanted to put piers around the entire home, and the other just wanted to do around the sunken corner. That was the difference between 18k and 40k.
> 
> I've walked around with a level inside an out. If I draw a level chalk line outside, I can see that the bricks slope down. The basement is finished so I'm not sure what the foundation walls look like. I pulled all of the wallpaper off upstairs, and found some large cracks in the drywall that have been repaired. Probably 1" wide cracks from what I can see.




 You said someone suggested the gutter drain had undermined that corner and that does sound logical. Do you have a level of trust about the source of that information? I cant tell from your photos but from the look of your house and the building style it looks to have been built in the 60s maybe. If it was a block basement they went up with 10 blocks and then switched to 8 to make a brick ledge. Your inside walls are stick framed and then the outer skin was full brick? Looks like the outside lower basement wall has been coated with something? Or are your walls poured? 

  I dont think you will have to take too many measurements as if there is still movement it will be showing. Did you get to know the previous owners at all? Have you talked to the neighbors about any work they may have seen done right before the sale? There is always some guy on the block watching what goes on. 

  Do you know where that drain pipe goes now? I would be tempted to change that setup to something that emptied at ground level and away from the house. Those underground setups have never worked out well for me and get clogged with leaves etc. If you shot that water onto the driveway would it go out to the road? Would there be an ice problem with doing that? 

  I personally wouldnt wait a few years to do a floor shimming and I feel thats a DIY project. That is if the clues you are seeing make you feel the repairs done are not brand new and that seems to go along with the inspector told you also. 

  What are your floors in the house? Subfloor and then T&G flooring. What do you want to end up with for floors? If you have nice hardwood and want to keep it in the whole house then you might want to lift it and shim the joists and then relay it. If you are going with a whole new overlay of something then you could level above maybe. I dont think you will notice the change in ceiling height. 

  My house is 1880s and it has a few inches of drop here and there. And the biggest problem is furniture along the walls tipping in and I have shimmed some of it, and we live with some of it. 

  Again Im looking at this from a DIY homeowner view. The pros here may suggest lifting the whole thing. 4 inches seems like a lot and it seems that would run hand in hand with the foundation repair of at least the 20k kind.


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> You said someone suggested the gutter drain had undermined that corner and that does sound logical. Do you have a level of trust about the source of that information? I cant tell from your photos but from the look of your house and the building style it looks to have been built in the 60s maybe. If it was a block basement they went up with 10 blocks and then switched to 8 to make a brick ledge. Your inside walls are stick framed and then the outer skin was full brick? Looks like the outside lower basement wall has been coated with something? Or are your walls poured?



This was what the homeowner told me. It was supposedly and estate sale, and the home originally belonged to the aunt of the seller. The few foundation companies guessed that it was an issue with the gutter. It was built in 1964. The inside walls are stick framed, and the outer skin is full brick from what I can tell. Maybe they coated the lower basement wall with something to hide teh cracks? Maybe I should dig into the wall downstairs and see what the foundation looks like. 



bud16415 said:


> I dont think you will have to take too many measurements as if there is still movement it will be showing. Did you get to know the previous owners at all? Have you talked to the neighbors about any work they may have seen done right before the sale? There is always some guy on the block watching what goes on.


I'll talk to some of the neighbors, that is a great idea. 



bud16415 said:


> Do you know where that drain pipe goes now? I would be tempted to change that setup to something that emptied at ground level and away from the house. Those underground setups have never worked out well for me and get clogged with leaves etc. If you shot that water onto the driveway would it go out to the road? Would there be an ice problem with doing that?



I have an above ground tube that pushes the water onto the driveway. There was a slight issue with ice last week, but nothing I couldn't live with for now. 
  I personally wouldnt wait a few years to do a floor shimming and I feel thats a DIY project. That is if the clues you are seeing make you feel the repairs done are not brand new and that seems to go along with the inspector told you also. 



bud16415 said:


> What are your floors in the house? Subfloor and then T&G flooring. What do you want to end up with for floors? If you have nice hardwood and want to keep it in the whole house then you might want to lift it and shim the joists and then relay it. If you are going with a whole new overlay of something then you could level above maybe. I dont think you will notice the change in ceiling height.



Yes, subfloor and then T&G flooring. I wouldn't be apposed to shimming the floor, but I do worry about making things look funny. Especially around the front windows. I would like to make it so it isn't as noticeable. It doesn't all have to be gone, but I don't want to be asked about my sloping floors every time I have a guest. Maybe I can just shim half of the drop out. 



bud16415 said:


> My house is 1880s and it has a few inches of drop here and there. And the biggest problem is furniture along the walls tipping in and I have shimmed some of it, and we live with some of it.
> 
> Again Im looking at this from a DIY homeowner view. The pros here may suggest lifting the whole thing. 4 inches seems like a lot and it seems that would run hand in hand with the foundation repair of at least the 20k kind.



Thanks for the advice. My goals here is to just learn as much as I can so I can decide how to move forward one day.


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## slownsteady (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't know how long you've been in the house, but if the cracks were filled and have not reopened, that's an indication that the settling has stopped. I've also heard that you can put a strip of sturdy tape across a crack and wait to see if the tape wrinkles over time. Not sure how long to wait for that to happen.

I would also move those stones & stuff from that corner to get a better look. it could be a camouflage job. And as painful as it might seem, I would consider tearing into the basement wall to get a look at the inside of the foundation.
New thought: any signs of moisture or mold in that corner of the basement? An active crack will probably be letting in ground water.


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2015)

I like the idea of finding exactly what is wrong before fixing things.
Can you check if the basement slab floor has a similar slope?
With a hammer if you tap the floor in the basement all over you will find if there are voids under, those areas sound different.

Is the foundation a block wall that has been stuccod or parged?


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## frodo (Jan 6, 2015)

i dont know about your area,  around here.  they dig a hole  approx  4'x4'x4'  on the corners,  and middle

different per house

lift the foundation to level.  then concrete the hole.


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## eyik66 (Jan 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> I like the idea of finding exactly what is wrong before fixing things.
> Can you check if the basement slab floor has a similar slope?
> With a hammer if you tap the floor in the basement all over you will find if there are voids under, those areas sound different.
> 
> Is the foundation a block wall that has been stuccod or parged?



The basement floor definitely has the same slope. Its carpeted, but I can feel it. Maybe this weekend I'll tear into the wall a little and see what the foundation looks like


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2015)

That's likely the best to do to see what's going on.
Water can do a lot of dammage but making a foundation sink isn't usually one of them The footing under the foundation wasn't big enough for the soil condition under it. Today more would have been taken out and back filled with better material.
The brick on the house is a red flag for me as I have not enugh experience with that. From what I have seen The starter coarse is sitting on a lip in the foundation or and angle iron bolted to the foundation. So lifting the house off the foundation leaves a big question on what happens to the brick.
When this sagged it must have left cracks in the brick work, if all that has been repointed, that would stop the brick from moving back to where they belong.


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## frodo (Jan 7, 2015)

have you heard of the cable lock process?  check out this video

this is an advertisement,  ignore that.  ck out the way its done

http://www.olshanfoundation.com/content/about-cable-lock-st-plus


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2015)

frodo said:


> have you heard of the cable lock process?  check out this video
> 
> this is an advertisement,  ignore that.  ck out the way its done
> 
> http://www.olshanfoundation.com/content/about-cable-lock-st-plus



Yes, that is one of many methods that can be very expensive. But first you have to determin the condition of the foundation and footing. In most cases just jacking the house is miles cheaper and is a job that a home owner is able to do for very little money and in some cases a new footing can be added to the inside  to support the house. Stil the question remains with any system that is aplied is the brick work and what it does.


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## frodo (Jan 8, 2015)

on a slab house, its part of the foundation.


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## nealtw (Jan 8, 2015)

frodo said:


> on a slab house, its part of the foundation.
> 
> ]



Yes sometime and youir point is what?
Something has moved up to four inches, now go look at the picture of the house and see if you can see the kind of cracks in the brick that should be there if there was 4 inches of movement.
I think you have made a suggestion here and you think I am wrong about something.
 Let's be clear, I have not made a recommendation and I have not got enough information yet.
A job like this has 20 what ifs that have to be answered and throwing 20 or 30K at a job isn't always the best answer but isn't out of the question


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## frodo (Jan 8, 2015)

nealtw said:


> That's likely the best to do to see what's going on.
> Water can do a lot of dammage but making a foundation sink isn't usually one of them The footing under the foundation wasn't big enough for the soil condition under it. Today more would have been taken out and back filled with better material.
> The brick on the house is a red flag for me as I have not enugh experience with that. From what I have seen The starter coarse is sitting on a lip in the foundation or and angle iron bolted to the foundation. So lifting the house off the foundation leaves a big question on what happens to the brick.
> When this sagged it must have left cracks in the brick work, if all that has been repointed, that would stop the brick from moving back to where they belong.




I thought there was a question as to how the brick is attached to the foundation. the picture i posted address's that.

it sits on the foundation,  and is also tied to the framing with brick ties.

in my opinion,  you can not lift the framing with the brick tied to it.
you need to lift the whole thing,  or risk pulling the brick ties loose
and having the wall fail

your point on the pointing of the bricks,  and going back ti original position is spot on


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## nealtw (Jan 8, 2015)

I have seen brick sitting on top of foundation, sitting on angle iron bolted ot the foundation and iron bolted to house. Any way that it is it can still be lifted with a little work and imagination. And if the foundation isn't good enough to lift it would need to be repaired or replaced, then you have to find a salution.


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## nealtw (Jan 8, 2015)

eyik66 said:


> The basement floor definitely has the same slope. Its carpeted, but I can feel it. Maybe this weekend I'll tear into the wall a little and see what the foundation looks like



Things to look for and take photos of when wall is open.
Does the foundation go all the way up to support the floor or is there a ponywall on top of the foundation. How High?
Water or dampness on the wall, white crystalls on the foundation.
Type of foundation, concrete, concrete block or?
Cracks and movement or signs of previous repairs.

Check for rot at the top plate under the joists and joists or in the ponywall.
Stabing wood with a screwdriver is a pretty good basic test, just compare it with stabbing good wood.


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2015)

frodo said:


> I thought there was a question as to how the brick is attached to the foundation. the picture i posted address's that.
> 
> it sits on the foundation,  and is also tied to the framing with brick ties.
> 
> ...



Check how they saved the brick work on the one house.
http://www.wiebemovers.ca/index_files/Page608.htm


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## frodo (Jan 9, 2015)

that is amazing.   I  hooked up a house in florida that was moved.  it was a slab house.  they picked up the slab and all

they got upset we would only guarantee the copper up to oup couplings.

they wanted us to accept responsibilty for the old copper in the walls.  no no no!!!

anyway,  it was interesting,


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## slownsteady (Jan 9, 2015)

Impressive. And encouraging...anything can be done given enough time, thought, and money.


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2015)

Well, we don't know how high the foundation comes.
First you have to find what the problem is, how bad it is, what needs to be done. And then look for the how to's.


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