# Anybody have specs for a sump pump?



## Wuzzat? (May 15, 2014)

It's an Expert submersible sump pump, models 116-122.  They were at North Paulina St. in Chicago.  No name plate that I could see on this thing.  It's from before 1992.

A humming noise, then silence, in our basement was the pump trying to start.  Since it didn't and since we had very heavy rain a while ago I'm now wondering if we ever needed a pump in this 1964 house, built on clay.

With my sump basin size, a measuring stick indicates a one gallon change and with flooding coming tonight I will be able to figure the GPM into the sump so I can size the pump.  A reading every hour or so should be enough.  My 5 gal. bucket rain gauge will tell how many inches we got.

I figure I can plug the basin with a square gasketed plate and a weight on the plate, if need be.  

If the groundwater rises above the level of the top surface of the basement floor slab with the opening plugged, at what levels relative to the basement floor slab may I expect trouble?

Should the pump I haven't gotten yet be set to turn on at the lower surface of the slab or the upper surface?

Facts, opinions and hearsay welcome. . .


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## Wuzzat? (May 15, 2014)

So far my rain gauge shows a 0.8" increase and the sump level hasn't moved so it may be a day or so before this all seeps down.


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## kok328 (May 15, 2014)

You can't hold back water with a gasket and weight.
So expect trouble right at floor level.
Get your self a pump with an adjustable float and set it where you need it based on your crock depth and pump style.
I prefer to set the have them empty the crock as much as possible without sucking air.  I have them come on right about at the bottom of the drain pipe so water doesn't back up through the pipes.


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## Wuzzat? (May 15, 2014)

kok328 said:


> You can't hold back water with a gasket and weight.
> So expect trouble right at floor level.
> Get your self a pump with an adjustable float and set it where you need it based on your crock depth and pump style.
> I prefer to set the have them empty the crock as much as possible without sucking air.  I have them come on right about at the bottom of the drain pipe so water doesn't back up through the pipes.


Thanks for your reply.

I figure a >25 lb weight should keep a clamp on what wants to be 6" of water in my basement.  1" of water, >4 lbs.  Worst case, I run a 2x4 from the lid up to the joists.

0.8" in my basin is 0.4 gallons so if the level increases by this much in an hour I need a tiny pump, 0.4 gallons/hr into a 7' head, plus friction loss.
http://abe-research.illinois.edu/pubs/factsheets/SumpPumps.pdf 

I should have kept track of the sump levels when the pump was working or at least measured the amp draw.  
The pump motor was about 5" dia by 3" high so I guess I can guesstimate how much hp it put out.  For sure it rapid-cycled.

It seems to me that if the ground is saturated from days of rain, so that the water level is 3" below our floor surface, and the weather people are calling for >3" of rain, I need to get a pump within hours of that forecast.


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## nealtw (May 15, 2014)

If the water get to the level of the top of the slab, look for water where ever the slab meets walls , exterior and bairing interior walls, there is no stopping it.


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## Wuzzat? (May 15, 2014)

nealtw said:


> If the water get to the level of the top of the slab, look for water where ever the slab meets walls , exterior and bairing interior walls, there is no stopping it.


Then plugging the hole is futile.  I guess I assumed that the joint between the walls and the floor was watertight.

To get the max GPM for the pump I may try putting water into the basin at a rate such that the water level stays just below the floor surface.  Then I measure the flow rate into the sump using a watch and a 5 gal. bucket.


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## Blue Jay (May 15, 2014)

Trying to cap off the top of the crock might be good for America's Funniest Home Video's but that is about all. With what you stated about the size of the current one and the forcast I would just go get a 1/3HP it will move a lot of water unless you have a very tall head to discharge to.

Since my perimeter drain goes into my crock I have a 1/3HP pump and it takes care of it very well I also have a 12V backup pump because I am on AEP (another empty promise) and I have an extra pump ready to set in place if the first one fails.


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## nealtw (May 15, 2014)

You should have venturi pump for when the power is out or your pump breaks down. When I was a kid we had two pumps set at two levels so when the second one started it turned on a light up stairs and we new the first one was dead and from time to time we still used the one with the garden hose.
http://www.aquamerik.com/catalogue/produits.cgi?category=pompes_asuccion&lg=eng


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## nealtw (May 16, 2014)

Anybody have specs for a sump pump?

Unless the writing is realy small, reg, glasses should work


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## kok328 (May 16, 2014)

You can't hold back water, period, I don't care if you put a 2500 lb. weight on it, you can't hold back water.  Hydraulics is an amazing thing, so much so that they use it in everyday applications where mechanical means would not be strong enough.
Don't over think this, it's not rocket science.  Buy a 1/3hp pump, drop it in the crock and move on to the next project.


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## Wuzzat? (May 16, 2014)

By popular demand  I pulled 1 gallon out of the sump and timed the refill.  One minute.  A 40w pond pump can keep up with this fill rate but this 
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/fl...=88930365325&gclid=CL-_tqi-sb4CFYGhOgod2UoA1A
is cheaper.

I probably won't need a check valve.
Now to find a water level switch.

After 24 hours the sump water level rose 2" out of the 4" rain we got.  Even with the remaining two inches the floor will not flood.  I doubt now that we ever needed a sump or a sump pump but I will gamble $100 + labor that I'm wrong.  Of course, to find this out I needed a hole in the basement floor, a failed pump and heavy rain that caused road & school closures.


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## nealtw (May 16, 2014)

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/sum...08A1g&ef_id=Uub2zgAABCjoeu0W:20140516224215:s


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## Wuzzat? (May 16, 2014)

nealtw said:


> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/sum...08A1g&ef_id=Uub2zgAABCjoeu0W:20140516224215:s


" sump basins with 14 in. and larger diameters. "
My 11-1/4 sq. basin has a diagonal of ~16".  It may work.


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## Wuzzat? (May 18, 2014)

Pulled the trigger on Flotec, UPC 022315100022, $83 + tax at HD.  
The box says it needs a 5/8" ID output hose but the inside literature says 3/4" ID.

Plugged it in and it did make a noise like it runs and air came out of the output port.  So far, so good.

Then I ran a hose to a drain and plugged this thing into extension cord and tried to drain the sump but water came out of everywhere since I didn't use Teflon tape on any of the fittings.  
By this time there was water and 120v everywhere and I was close to qualifying for a Darwin Award and I was so drunk that doorframes went out of their way to hit me.  Fug, yes!  

So I stopped.

In the days to come I will build my own float switch from Microswitches from my basement junkbox and plastic pill containers.  This float assembly will be detachable for ease of testing.  
Since it's way more important that the pump runs when it should than
 when it's off when it should be, I may put two switches in parallel.  

You would be surprised at how complicated this electro-mechanical-hydraulic system is.

I occasionally need hot water outside in the winter so I can use the PVC pipe that runs through the basement wall from the existing setup to snake a garden hose through the pipe from the water heater, the same one that I will snake the output hose for this pump.

Being more or less portable since the output is a flexible, detachable garden hose, this pump can be used for other things.  
It's a win-win.   Fug, yes!


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## bud16415 (May 19, 2014)

Years ago in my younger days I built my own float switch setup to run a sump pump that I got from a missionary they were tearing down. It was not a submersible pump and I used a toilet ball float and some all thread rod screwed into it and guided it by putting the all thread thru some plastic pipe guides. I used a regular light switch that I drilled a hole thru the flipper and tied two strings one to flip the switch on and another to flip it off. I had a little over travel due to the lag in when it would turn on and when it would actually start lowering the water and I added a spring to the strings to take care of that. Amazingly this setup worked for 20 years and cycled frequently as it had a washing machine also sharing the sump. It finally died of rust and gunk and I thought for a few seconds about building a new one but it seemed with age I had more money and less time for such tinkering and I bought a tether ball float and dropped it in the sump one zip tie and plugged it in. I doubt it will last 20 years but I hope to be around to find out. It&#8217;s been going about 10 so far.


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## Wuzzat? (May 19, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> Years ago in my younger days I built my own float switch setup to run a sump pump that I got from a missionary they were tearing down. It was not a submersible pump and I used a toilet ball float and some all thread rod screwed into it and guided it by putting the all thread thru some plastic pipe guides. I used a regular light switch that I drilled a hole thru the flipper and tied two strings one to flip the switch on and another to flip it off. I had a little over travel due to the lag in when it would turn on and when it would actually start lowering the water and I added a spring to the strings to take care of that. Amazingly this setup worked for 20 years and cycled frequently as it had a washing machine also sharing the sump. It finally died of rust and gunk and I thought for a few seconds about building a new one but it seemed with age I had more money and less time for such tinkering and I bought a tether ball float and dropped it in the sump one zip tie and plugged it in. I doubt it will last 20 years but I hope to be around to find out. Its been going about 10 so far.




I also looked into two switches with a relay but this sump project is on hold because the house is at 63F so I have to reassemble the furnace ductwork.  I've started too many projects at one time.


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## Wuzzat? (Jun 21, 2014)

Found a 15A rated Microswitch in my junkbox which ought to be able to reliably switch a pump that pulls a measured 5.3A.  Had two smaller 5A Microswitches but this is a motor load.

Half of a pillbottle displaces enough water weight to operate this switch.  My idea is that the whole switch assembly sits on top of the sump and is removeable for checking the float for leaks and proper operation.  

An open-bottom flapper valve did not displace enough water but maybe resists chlorine better than a pillbottle.

120v will be on this switch and it's only a half-inch or so above the floor surface so I'll have a loop of grounded wire so if there is a flood that the pump can't handle (unlikely) the lion's share of current will go to this "ground loop" and not into the basement flood water.

A record rainfall for my area is 8" and we had 4" some time ago which gave a 2" rise in my sump water level, so with 8" it still will not flood the basement unless it goes over several days.

Maybe I can scrounge up an 120v audible alarm wired in parallel with the pump so I know what's happening, until I'm comfortable with this setup.


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## bud16415 (Jun 22, 2014)

I like to run the source of switched power to a duplex outlet and plug the pump into it. I take the other half of the outlet and plug an old clock into it. Set it to 12 and the clock will run when the pump runs. Easy way to keep track of pump run time and how much water you are moving. 


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