# why there are white lime trangle lines on walls aroud my chimney?



## peter101 (May 1, 2011)

After winter I found there are white triangle lines on both side walls around my brick chimney. After raining for 1-2 hours, the brick wall on both side of the chimney will have a deep color triangle area larger and lower than white triangle lines. But, I have touched the deep color area and did not fell water on the brick after rainning lightly several hours. 

When it does not rain, the deep color triangle area is fading out and can only see it 50 meter away. Till now, we have rain every week.

The saddle has no counter flash on top. And the chimney side flush is a long piece of metal, not stap flash. All seals are ok.

Please help me to find possible reasons?

Thank you.


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## itsreallyconc (May 7, 2011)

*appears to be efflorescence & is probably caused by moisture behind the brickwork*


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## peter101 (May 8, 2011)

Thank you for reply. Recently, I found one of my two downspouts was blocked at the bottom. I don't know if this is the reason to make water enter my brickwork around my chimney. The chimney is in the middle of my two downspouts.


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## oldognewtrick (May 9, 2011)

Doubtful, the gutter is probably 16" away from the wall. Missing mortar, improper wall flashing or failure of the crown of the chimney are my guess.


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## nealtw (May 10, 2011)

Check for wet insulation around the chimney in the attic.


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## peter101 (May 11, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Doubtful, the gutter is probably 16" away from the wall. Missing mortar, improper wall flashing or failure of the crown of the chimney are my guess.



The outmost wall of my chimney is next the gutter. This part of wall will suck water if the gutter is full during the rain.

Before a rain, I have coverd the chimney from top to buttom with plastic, but I still get the dark color area on my side wall during the rain. One day After the rain, I open the plastic cover and found water on the chimney wall and plastic and the part which is 1 to 2 feet above the gutter has more water. I am sure that no rain enters the chimney during the rain.


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## peter101 (May 11, 2011)

nealtw said:


> Check for wet insulation around the chimney in the attic.



After winter, I found some small gaps between the saddle and chimney wall. I patched the gaps with roof cement and seal all chimney flashs and the roof singles around the chimney. I still get the dark color area during the rain. 

Then, in a sunny day I run tap water from the end point of the saddle to simulate a mild rain and keep water around the chimney in an area not more than 1 foot away the chimney. I did it 4 hours, but I can not reproduce the dark color area.


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## peter101 (May 11, 2011)

I have asked 5 contractors to check my problem. No body point out where is the problem. But, every one gives the same suggestion: cut the chimney under the roof and redo the roof. The chimney is for oil furnace and I changed to electric furnace 7 years ago.

But, my roof is only 15 years old and it is still ok even I have repaired 4 square feet blowing away singles. My roof size: 30 feet x 30 feet with slope.


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## oldognewtrick (May 11, 2011)

Finding the source of water leaks is sometimes, at best, frustrating. My suggestion is to first rule out the obvious.

-Is the chimney properly step and counter flashed into the mortar joints?

-Do you have a "cricket" behind the chimney to divert water around the chimney chase?

-Are there any missing mud joints in the brick and if you run your finger along the joint does it release a lot of sand?

-Is the mud cap/crown/mortar cap in-tack without any cracks or voids?

From what I'm seeing you are getting water migration through the chimney above the gutter. The effervescences is all along the wall from the soffit down. The gutter is to far away from the wall to be the main issue. 

I would try sealing the chase from the top down with a masonary sealer before you start tearing down structure. Fill in any cracks or voids because sealers won't bridge gaps.


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## peter101 (May 12, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Finding the source of water leaks is sometimes, at best, frustrating. My suggestion is to first rule out the obvious.
> 
> -Is the chimney properly step and counter flashed into the mortar joints?
> 
> ...




I will try to cover the chimney again before a rain to make sure it is not chimney.


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## nealtw (May 18, 2011)

Did you get the part about the cricket, that is the roof shape behind the chimney to devert the water.


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## peter101 (May 19, 2011)

nealtw said:


> Did you get the part about the cricket, that is the roof shape behind the chimney to devert the water.



Yes, I have cricket (or: chimney saddle) behind the chimney and I found two 1" gaps between it and the chimney wall after winter and sealed it. Now, I have covered the whole chimney and the seals of chimney flashs with plastic, but I still has the deep color area after rain. The color is light than before I don't know if it is due to after one week of sunny day the water inside the wall has evaporated a lot or the covering the chimney.


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## oldognewtrick (May 19, 2011)

Peter, are you seeing any water spotting on the ceiling of the room inside the house?


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## nealtw (May 19, 2011)

When you have the chimney wrapped up, put a sprinkler at the peak, you may just have a roof leak. Lately we have been working on a church that had a little roof leak last year and replaced that part of the roof. Someone noticed the stucco was a little discoloured so they checked it out and found some soft walls and hired a siding outfit to re and re the siding. The roof had been leaking for years and never showed inside.
We have been changing whole sections of walls that were held up with stucco and drywall. The best or I should say worsed was a 6"x48" beam 80 ft long the side has rotted in 1 1/2" all without showing inside. I am sure the engineers will tell us what to do with the beam right after the hart attack. We found ware the water was getting in and it traveled 40ft along the beam.


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## oldognewtrick (May 19, 2011)

Neal makes a good recommendation to water test the area. Start by running water in the gutter, look for leak signs. Then move higher until you see evidence of water migration. Start low and slowly work your way up the chimney chase. I'd suggest using a hose with no nozzle instead of a sprinkler so you can localize the water flow...and be very careful on wet roof slopes or ladders.

Also, looking at the pic, i'll bet there is no flashing between the gutter and the backside of the chimney or kick-out flashing at the bottom of the brick sides. Can you get whoever tarped the chimney to take some pics from elevation?


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## peter101 (May 20, 2011)

nealtw said:


> Check for wet insulation around the chimney in the attic.



Now, I realize that I don't know what is wet insulation around the chimney because I thought the wet insulation was ice memberance stick around the chimney base and roof sheathing and now I think maybe I am wroung.

Could you please tell me in details about  what is wet insulation around the chimney and how to verify it is good or not ?


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## peter101 (May 20, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Peter, are you seeing any water spotting on the ceiling of the room inside the house?



I did not find any water spot on ceillings inside the house and not under roof sheathing insdie the attic during rain (mild rain).

The roof only has plain roofing paper under the single and no ice memberance in the first 3 feet even I am located in very cold area.


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## nealtw (May 20, 2011)

You do need to check your attic insulation over that wall and around your chimney for water. You need to check it for twenty feet.


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## peter101 (May 26, 2011)

nealtw said:


> You do need to check your attic insulation over that wall and around your chimney for water. You need to check it for twenty feet.



Do you mean a water insulation and twenty feet horizontally?

What is the water insulation over the wall? If the wall is under my roof, does it have water insulation?

My house layers are as following: inside wall, air gap,black paper, wood fram, black paper, air gap, outside brick wall.

My bick chimney starts from my outside brick wall and I can not see the chimney and my outside brick wall inside the attic. I think either the chimney and the wall are outside my attic or their parts inside attic are short than the thermal insulation thickness.


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## oldognewtrick (May 26, 2011)

Peter, what Neal was referring to was the insulation in the attic, if it is wet or if it has been wet it will have a crusty texture to it. Check on the horizontal, both side of the chimney. You will have to crawl over to the edge to check because of the slope of the roof. Also, can you see any water staining on the bottom of the roof decking where the chimney is located on the outside wall?


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## peter101 (May 27, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Peter, what Neal was referring to was the insulation in the attic, if it is wet or if it has been wet it will have a crusty texture to it. Check on the horizontal, both side of the chimney. You will have to crawl over to the edge to check because of the slope of the roof. Also, can you see any water staining on the bottom of the roof decking where the chimney is located on the outside wall?



Thank you for your explaination. I have checked the thermal insulation in attic are dry and has no water mark. The roof boards are dry. But, because the slope of the roof, the bottom of the roof is hard to reach and also filled with thermal insulation material. I did not check it and I will try now based on your suggestion.


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## nealtw (May 27, 2011)

When you do get in there for this inspection, take a close look at the chimey while you are there. You may want to use a peice of plywood to slide out there.


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## peter101 (May 30, 2011)

nealtw said:


> When you do get in there for this inspection, take a close look at the chimey while you are there. You may want to use a peice of plywood to slide out there.



Thanks for suggestion. What is the reason to slide out a peice of plywood and what should I look for?


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## nealtw (May 30, 2011)

The plywood just gives you something to lay on while you do your inspection. You are looking for wet insulation. Insulation that looks like it might have been wet. Look at the lumber for signs of water. Check around the chimney and while you are there check that air can get thru from the soffet vents. If in doubt take photos.
I am thinking that you may have had an ice dam in the winter and water worked its way in and drained between the wall and the brick.


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