# Are you required to use water resistant sheetrock in a kitchen?



## merk (Jul 15, 2016)

Hi All,

In a dispute with my crappy contractor who is now resorting to threatening me with cease and desist letters if i dont remove my reviews of them.

One of the things his lawyer mentioned was that there is no industry standard that would require them to use water resistant sheetrock around the sink in the kitchen.

Ironically, they DID use water resistant sheetrock the first time they put up sheetrock. But they had to tear it all down since they did all that work without any permits or inspections. I also don't think they put any insulation in the walls which i think they were also required to do.

Oh, and this is in california, daly city.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 15, 2016)

No!,no!,no!


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## Sparky617 (Jul 15, 2016)

Not required.  It is probably not the best thing to do, getting into an online urination contest with someone STILL working on your house.   Exterior walls need to be insulated even in a mild climate like Daly City, CA.  You still dip down to freezing there.


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## nealtw (Jul 15, 2016)

If he has come back because he is fixing a permit problem, I would take down the review or at least state that he is working on it. Everything goes better when the war is cooled a little.


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 15, 2016)

Knucklehead.  Take a deep breath and agree to work together amicably.  If he is eating the re-work cost, just make sure it is done properly without harassment.  If he has a lawyer involved, things have already gone from bad to worse.  Find a qualified inspector to review the job as a 3rd party.  You need an advocate in case this goes to court.


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## merk (Jul 15, 2016)

I'm not a knuclehead, you guys are assuming things.

Work is finished. I've filed a complaint with the CSLB. These are the type of contractors that make other contractors look bad. I am not the only person they have done this to. I've been contacted by several other people since posting my review. There is no way I would let anyone from that company back in my house. I want to make sure no one else gets ripped off by these guys, but i also, unlike them, want to be honest. So if regular sheetrock is all that is required then I'll correct my statements.

So water resistant sheetrock isn't required around the sink?


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## nealtw (Jul 15, 2016)

It's not code in kitchens where I live.


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## zannej (Jul 15, 2016)

Would the IRC (International Residential Code) stipulate required building materials for kitchens?

I've never heard of waterproof sheetrock being required. Now, as a consumer, you have the right to request water resistant sheetrock at your own expense. Otherwise, once the sheetrock is up, some good water resistant / waterproof paint or some other covering can be put over it. Many people use tile backsplashes, but you can do all sorts of things as a wall treatment over the sheetrock. My family used a textured gypsum board that looks like tile.

If water resistant sheetrock was stipulated in the contract and the work had to be redone because of their failure to get permits, then they should use water resistant sheetrock in the re-do. If they charged you for the materials and you had to pay for them, you should get those materials. They should just have to eat the cost. (Which is why good contractors get permits and try not to screw things up).

If the permits were not pulled and the insulation was not put in the walls, then that can cause heat and cold loss in the house and will make your heating and cooling bills go up. IIRC, insulation is required in exterior walls pretty much everywhere.

Unless your statements about them are untrue, they don't really have grounds for "harassment" if you post reviews of them online. You are entitled to your opinion of the quality of their work, but you need to have factual evidence behind any claims of wrongdoing in terms of code violation.

Other than the sheetrock and suspected insulation issue, did you have any other problems with the contractor?

A detailed description with dates and times listing what happened and what led to your dissatisfaction could help paint a better picture.

It is important to always have the details of what you expect them to do listed explicitly in the contract. Always get an itemized bill if possible. Basically, if they charged you for the materials and had to buy more to redo it at their own expense, they are obligated to use the same materials for which they charged you (at least, that is my understanding) and not use cheaper materials than you paid for. 

Now, if you requested changes that required them to have to redo things and it wasn't because of their own failure to do something right, then you would have to eat the cost. But if they just screwed up, it's on them to eat it.

Disclaimer: I am not a contractor or a lawyer so I don't know the laws for certain. This is just my understanding of how things work.


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## slownsteady (Jul 15, 2016)

Whether the lawyer has any grounds to stand on is dependent on what you wrote in your online review. I would hope you stuck to facts and verified your suspicions before you posted ( sounds like you may not have, from what you wrote here). Zannej seems to hit all the key points. A negative review is not subject to a cease & desist order.
I wonder if this contractor has had issues before. He obviously has a quick finger on the dial for his lawyer.


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## merk (Jul 15, 2016)

As far as i know, the only thing i was incorrect on was a subcontractors permit being expired instead of revoked (he does have a pending bond payment that needs to be resolved though) and possibly the drywall.

Ironically, the first time they put up the sheetrock they used water resistant sheetrock. They had to tear all that down though since they did it all without permits.

You can read the full account here - www.everlast-construction-sucks.com


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## slownsteady (Jul 15, 2016)

Quite a story there. And it sounds as if you have every right to be pissed at them. However, since you have a website with their name on it, their lawyer may have a case for a cease & desist order. You may consider getting your own attorney if you plan to keep up this fight. Or you may want to contact a local TV station that has a consumer advocate reporter. You're going to need an ally or two. These guys have a business plan that includes attorney threats.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 15, 2016)

Reminds me of a story about a hummingbird, an alligator, and a fundamental orface.


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## slownsteady (Jul 15, 2016)

Would you like to recount the story for the benefit of those not familiar with it?


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

It goes something like; "Don't let you alligator mouth, overload your hummingbird ***."

Anybody recall anywhere in the OP's diatribe, where he visited the DALY City building Dept. and made this inquiry, asked about the prevailing building code, where he could purchase a copy or done anything on his own behalf, to broaden his knowledge of building practices, exercised any self-improvement.


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## slownsteady (Jul 16, 2016)

Granted, the OP could have done a much better job of shopping for a contractor; "let the buyer beware" and all that crap. But based on what we see here, there are many contractors that know how to *get* a job and not how to *do* it. Seems pretty clear to me that their business plan is based on running roughshod over the customer, with the attorney practically part of the crew. IMHO, if i were you, I would not want to defend these guys too quickly.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

Perhaps you could show me something I've missed;"Anybody recall anywhere in the OP's diatribe, where he visited the DALY City building Dept. and made this inquiry, asked about the prevailing building code, where he could purchase a copy or done anything on his own behalf, to broaden his knowledge of building practices, exercised any self-improvement." The part where I'm defending the contractor?


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## KULTULZ (Jul 16, 2016)

CallMeVilla said:


> Knucklehead.  Take a deep breath and agree to work together amicably.  If he is eating the re-work cost, just make sure it is done properly without harassment.  If he has a lawyer involved, things have already gone from bad to worse.  Find a qualified inspector to review the job as a 3rd party.  You need an advocate in case this goes to court.





Why do you feel the OP is a knucklehead?

Consumers are taken everyday by shady/unqualified _contractors_.

If water resistant drywall was installed originally and non-treated was re-installed to correct/cover work not complying with code, it is further evidence of his incompetence/dishonesty. And I surely wouldn't want him doing any further work as his incompetency has clearly been shown.

If the average consumer had the wherewithal to be able to understand and comply with code(s), he wouldn't need a contractor. He would sub-contract. He is paying (out the a$$ most likely) for all of this to be done for him correctly, not having to stand over the contractor constantly watching the work.

And equating one's self to Bob Villa is not a smart thing as he is as dumb as a box of rocks... :down:.


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## zannej (Jul 16, 2016)

Ok, I read the review and that makes a lot of sense. 
It was a representation of what happened and how the OP felt about how they were treated. 
Merk, were the threats to put a lien on your property sent to you in writing? If so, you could go to court and mention that they are attempting to blackmail you in a way. You could show that in court and state that you gave your honest assessment of their performance on the job.

and I know it is hindsight-- and it seems you have quite a bit of that in this situation, but for others who might be thinking of hiring a contractor, it is important to get the details of what you want done -- plans for what you want the layout to be and so forth-- BEFORE any demo takes place. That should be stipulated. It sounds like you had to do a lot of work to make sure things got done, and that was something the contractor should have done and not been left up to you.

Personally, if I were in your situation, I would consider consulting another contractor about getting that one electrical outlet uncovered and getting the right sheetrock put in and so forth and sue the original contractor for the cost because they screwed the job up. Make sure to get all of the reports from inspectors in writing in case you ever have to go to court-- and stipulate that you want them to pay your legal fees as well as reimbursing you for repairs to make things the way they should have been.

This sounds like one of those cases that would end up on Holmes Inspection or Holmes on Homes. People get screwed over by contractors all the time. It makes it hard for the genuinely good contractors out there.

Again, if you had water resistant sheetrock installed originally, then that is what you paid for and that is what should have been put back in when it was redone.

I hope that you can get things sorted out with this.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> Why do you feel the OP is a knucklehead?



He'll probably respond but it's more than likely that the OP "elected" to negotiate on social media, without first educating himself on common building, OR, common business practices.



KULTULZ said:


> Consumers are taken everyday by shady/unqualified _contractors_.



A mind is a terrible thing to waste, and when you "elect" to subordinate good sense, to a flowery sales pitch that agrees with your "want" and not your need, you have only yourself to blame.



KULTULZ said:


> If water resistant drywall was installed originally and non-treated was re-installed to correct/cover work not complying with code, it is further evidence of his incompetence/dishonesty. And I surely wouldn't want him doing any further work as his incompetency has clearly been shown.



It is neither incompetent nor dishonest to use material you have on hand, and is actually prudent business practice to reduce stored material inventory.Either regular drywall or WR board will satisfy the fire rating of the wall.



KULTULZ said:


> If the average consumer had the wherewithal to be able to understand and comply with code(s), he wouldn't need a contractor. He would sub-contract. He is paying (out the a$$ most likely) for all of this to be done for him correctly, not having to stand over the contractor constantly watching the work.



Everyone has the "ability", however they elect to subordinate to a "professional" 
as a matter of convenience, or they simply do not want to take the time to educate themselves.



KULTULZ said:


> And equating one's self to Bob Villa is not a smart thing as he is as dumb as a box of rocks... :down:.



Would that be an example of an actionable opinion?


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

zannej said:


> Ok, I read the review and that makes a lot of sense.
> It was a representation of what happened and how the OP felt about how they were treated.



As long as it remains just an opinion, it's not actionable and a lawyer letter, is not free.



zannej said:


> Merk, were the threats to put a lien on your property sent to you in writing? If so, you could go to court and mention that they are attempting to blackmail you in a way. You could show that in court and state that you gave your honest assessment of their performance on the job.



BOLOGNA



zannej said:


> Personally, if I were in your situation, I would consider consulting another contractor about getting that one electrical outlet uncovered and getting the right sheetrock put in and so forth and sue the original contractor for the cost because they screwed the job up. Make sure to get all of the reports from inspectors in writing in case you ever have to go to court-- and stipulate that you want them to pay your legal fees as well as reimbursing you for repairs to make things the way they should have been.



Why wasn't the building inspector made aware of and addressed the covered outlet?

After all, there was a permit.

All correction notices are in writing and become part of the addresses permanent record.



zannej said:


> Again, if you had water resistant sheetrock installed originally, then that is what you paid for and that is what should have been put back in when it was redone.



BOLOGNA


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## zannej (Jul 16, 2016)

Snoopyb, I didn't say the person could win if they went to court, but they could at least present it in court for consideration. Whether or not it would change anything depends on the judge. It would be more prudent to get letters from the inspector as well as other contractors to assess the mistakes and try to prove that the job was not done properly though. If a person actually goes to the court hearing they can contest the lien. Whether or not they succeed, is again up to their evidence and the judge.

While I am not a lawyer or a contractor, I would like to know why you think it is "bologna" that the contractor would not have to use the material that the OP agreed upon using and was charged for? 

I know that as a homeowner, if I paid for specific materials to be used and the contractor screwed up, I would expect them to use the same materials I had already paid for to replace it. If the job had been done right in the first place, the homeowner would still have the material they wanted and paid for.


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## merk (Jul 16, 2016)

Snoopyb, I don't think I've met anyone before who can so quickly condemn someone for not being as perfect as you must be. 

I assume you do your own dentistry since it would just be lazy to hire someone else to do that for you right? 

As to some of the other more constructive comments...

CBS is coming over next week to interview me about this. 

The letter that was sent was just a notice. It hasn't been recorded yet.  Based on this guys behavior,  I don't think he'll do anything that actually leads us to court because his goal at this point is to hide what he does. I'm not the only person they have done this to.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

zannic said:


> Snoopyb, I didn't say the person could win if they went to court, but they could at least present it in court for consideration.



Which has nothing to do with reality and would be unnecessarily burdensome.



zannic said:


> Whether or not it would change anything depends on the judge. It would be more prudent to get letters from the inspector as well as other contractors to assess the mistakes and try to prove that the job was not done properly though.



To what end? 

The project is already finished, so the OP should further fiscally encumber himself?

Contractors charge for this service, both as an independent or under an attny. umbrella.

You pay a visit to the Daly Cith Dept. of Building and Safety and ask for copies of the record and you'll be lucky if they provide them free.



zannic said:


> If a person actually goes to the court hearing they can contest the lien. Whether or not they succeed, is again up to their evidence and the judge.



And the filing party can defend or wave it.



zannic said:


> While I am not a lawyer or a contractor, I would like to know why you think it is "bologna" that the contractor would not have to use the material that the OP agreed upon using and was charged for?



Show me the contract, where it specifically varies from "in accordance with standard building practices". 



zannic said:


> I know that as a homeowner, if I paid for specific materials to be used and the contractor screwed up, I would expect them to use the same materials I had already paid for to replace it. If the job had been done right in the first place, the homeowner would still have the material they wanted and paid for.



Up to the moment the final cheque has been cashed, you haven't paid for anything, all you have is an agreement to preform.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

merkel said:


> Snoopyb, I don't think I've met anyone before who can so quickly condemn someone for not being as perfect as you must be.



I took it upon myself to visit the building department and the planning department. I purchased the code manuals, and still use them for reference. when I was at the building dept. I availed myself of the free hand outs for residential construction.

I studied the lien law.

I am "cursorily" familiar with the business and professional code.

I was interested enough in my self-preservation, without depending upon others.

I advise others on a methodology to achieve their goal, satisfactory completion of their project.

Few feel so lonely and insulted by their naivety being revealed that they demand their 2 seconds of social media fame. 

You are apparently unaware aware, that the government you elect to do everything for you, you simultaneously elect, to take everything from you.


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## zannej (Jul 16, 2016)

Oops, misread your name as Snoopy. LOL. Sorry.

I applaud your efforts in taking initiative, but a lot of homeowners really don't even know where to begin and just trust contractors. Maybe that is naive, but not everyone has the time, inclination, or aptitude to do what you did.

Yes, homeowners should be careful about who they hire and such, but at the same time, the contractors are the ones who are being hired and who have the responsibility to do the right things when doing work.

Some people make mistakes and get taken advantage of, and I don't think it is right to ridicule them so harshly when they realize they were ripped off or had bad work done and they want to let others know. They are basically serving as a warning to others that they should be more careful. Without people sharing their experiences, people wouldn't know about these things happening.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks, I've never been afraid of ruffling a few feathers, or standing on someones desk.

People should realize that "I'm from the government and Im here to help" is a dangerous phrase, and they should define there own equity.

The resources are all there, just don't get sucked in.


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## slownsteady (Jul 16, 2016)

So Snoonby, since you have all this knowledge, would you like to help Merk figure out his next steps, or are you going to label him "sucker" and walk away?


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

Do you have a back-quote for the "sucker" comment, or are you protracting.

Having read the thread through, the question, his statement that it's been resolved, his statement that he has already filed a complaint with The Department of Consumer Affairs, State Contractors License Board, published on social media and contacted CBS news for his 2sec. of fame, all without availing himself of the resources available to him.

He seems unwilling to share the unedited version of events, so he's pretty much set his own coarse.

Where was the OP when he was contemplating the project, when advice may actually had some effect?


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## slownsteady (Jul 16, 2016)

OP isn't blameless. There were many points where he could have stopped the madness. But we're here to help (most of us anyway) so help if you can, or drop the thread if you can't (or won't).
And yes, I was not so much protracting, as surmising from your attitude.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 16, 2016)

So, how many erroneous assumptions are you, as a moderator, allowed in each post?

By the way, post #2 is the answer to the question that this thread is the subject of and no other requests for assistance have been requested.

Ask and answered.

Because thats 3.

Why don't you, as a moderator, take the time to search the internet and list all the occasions that I have actually referred to someone as a "sucker", instead of perceiving yourself as a mind reader with intuitive powers, beyond the realm of reality.


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## zannej (Jul 17, 2016)

Just out of curiosity, what resources should the OP have availed himself of? What do you think the proper recourse was in this situation?

I realize that you probably might not picture yourself in that situation since you would have handled things differently from the get-go, but just for the sake of a fun exercise, let's do a hypothetical situation. Pretend you were in his place and had gotten screwed over by the contractor the way he feels he was. What would you have done instead?

You may think that the person is out for fame. I don't know if that is the case or if he just wants some help from outside sources and to raise awareness to help other people avoid the same mistakes. The media can be a useful tool in getting things done when other methods fail. I don't know if I would have gone to the media in this situation, but I'm not the one in the situation.

Yes, the OP probably should have sought advice beforehand-- but hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure he's learned his lesson in that area. And I do know that sometimes there are people who do seek advice and either get bad advice or don't get answers before starting a project. 

I'm still not quite sure what the government has to do with all of this though. I admit that I don't get why you keep mentioning it. Maybe I just missed something.

And in case my tone is not clear in text, I'm not angry or upset. I'm just curious and a bit confused.


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## KULTULZ (Jul 17, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> He'll probably respond but it's more than likely that the OP "elected" to negotiate on social media, without first educating himself on common building, OR, common business practices.



He most likely ran into a brick wall (did you actually read the page he set up - review the shoddy work?) as there is no true resort to a situation as this other than civil court which is costly and the most that will be likely awarded is a judgement which will never be paid.

It is better (IMO) to fire the contractor and start with another.



> It is neither incompetent nor dishonest to use material you have on hand, and is actually prudent business practice to reduce stored material inventory.Either regular drywall or WR board will satisfy the fire rating of the wall.


It is if the contract called for a certain type of drywall as there was concern on somebody's' part about possible water damage depending on the back-splash design/materials selected.

He hung a water resistant and then patched over his mistake with regular drywall. Where does fire code come into this?



> Everyone has the "ability", however they elect to subordinate to a "professional" as a matter of convenience, or they simply do not want to take the time to educate themselves.


When you go in for your cancer treatment, be sure to get your medical degree so you can tell the surgeon how to proceed in your particular case.

When you go to a restaurant, be sure you go into the kitchen and advise/oversee the preparation of your meal.

I think you need to read the webpage before going any further or it is most likely you condone this business practice.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 17, 2016)

zannej said:


> Just out of curiosity, what resources should the OP have availed himself of? What do you think the proper recourse was in this situation?
> 
> Pretend you were in his place and had gotten screwed over by the contractor the way he feels he was. What would you have done instead?



I would have quietly hired a construction attny.

I would not have elected social media as my default source for venting, until the gavel has sounded.



zannej said:


> You may think that the person is out for fame. I don't know if that is the case or if he just wants some help from outside sources and to raise awareness to help other people avoid the same mistakes. The media can be a useful tool in getting things done when other methods fail. I don't know if I would have gone to the media in this situation, but I'm not the one in the situation.



The right can be negotiated and can have a monetary value above a salutary one.



zannej said:


> Yes, the OP probably should have sought advice beforehand-- but hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure he's learned his lesson in that area. And I do know that sometimes there are people who do seek advice and either get bad advice or don't get answers before starting a project.



Anyone who has bought anything or listened to any media source in CA should be aware of the 72hr. rescission period. 



zannej said:


> I'm still not quite sure what the government has to do with all of this though. I admit that I don't get why you keep mentioning it. Maybe I just missed something.



The Calif. State Contractors License Board will arbitrate on the injured parties behalf, however, it has been my experience that any monetary fees levied, are on their behalf, not the injured parties, and they have subpoena powers.

That's what attny's are for.

There is an order to the process.

Also in his diatribe there is no mention of the rescission period , if they were asked and agreed to waive it, the structure of the payment schedule or a start and completion date.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 17, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> He most likely ran into a brick wall (did you actually read the page he set up - review the shoddy work?) as there is no true resort to a situation as this other than civil court which is costly and the most that will be likely awarded is a judgement which will never be paid.



Is you opinion based upon a here-to-for undisclosed knowledge of how the business is held or not understanding CA. Contractors License law.



KULTULZ said:


> It is better (IMO) to fire the contractor and start with another.



The process can also require attny's and months of delays.



KULTULZ said:


> It is if the contract called for a certain type of drywall as there was concern on somebody's' part about possible water damage depending on the back-splash design/materials selected.



The OP has not furnished any evidensce that that was the case or that there were any specifications list that denoted anything other than what appears in a standard form contract, "standard building materials".



KULTULZ said:


> He hung a water resistant and then patched over his mistake with regular drywall. Where does fire code come into this?



You may not understand that every wall has, based upon their composition, a fire rating.



KULTULZ said:


> I think you need to read the webpage before going any further or it is most likely you condone this business practice.



So, because I read where at first there wasn't a plan, and then there was, I was reading from something else?

There is a curious phenomenon that occurs when callout an OP continuing down an erroneous path.

You are ASSumed to be advocating for the "edited" illegitimate acts of another.

When in fact, that "edited" version is far from the true story.


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## zannej (Jul 17, 2016)

Ah. Thank you for answering. I haven't been to California for a very long time and I'm not up-to-date on the laws. To be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that there even was such a thing as a construction attorney. It makes sense now that I hear about it, though.

It's possible that the OP wasn't aware of that either. And it's possible that he was also unaware of the 72hr rescission period.

To make sure I understand what you're saying, contacting the licensing board and getting the government involved gets money for the government in forms of fees/fines but usually is not beneficial to the complainant, right? An attorney would be necessary to seek restitution for alleged damages as there would not be such satisfaction from the government?

I'm not judging the OP, but I admit I was baffled that any work was started without a clear plan going forward. Maybe it's just me, but I would think some sort of plan would be required before demo began so they would know what did and did not need demo. I personally would want a very clear plan of what needed to be done (with allowances for hidden surprises behind the walls that might require modification). But then, I have a fascination with construction and would want to know about everything that was going on. 

I know there are people who feel like they wouldn't ever be able to understand the intricacies of construction so they leave it up to the contractors. Usually it's people who have never been screwed over or who are trusting who don't ask questions or who go forward. 

Anyway, I hope the OP gives an update on how this worked out (or if it doesn't work out).


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## Snoonyb (Jul 17, 2016)

zannej said:


> To be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that there even was such a thing as a construction attorney. It makes sense now that I hear about it, though.



It's a tongue-cheek specialty and is actually a general practice attny with an in-depth knowledge of the Business and Professional Code, which every state has.



zannej said:


> It's possible that the OP wasn't aware of that either. And it's possible that he was also unaware of the 72hr rescission period.



It's one of the responsibilities of the contractor to have that notice available at the time the contract is presented for signature, which the customer must sign as acceptance of it having been present and explained and/or the decision to waive.



zannej said:


> To make sure I understand what you're saying, contacting the licensing board and getting the government involved gets money for the government in forms of fees/fines but usually is not beneficial to the complainant, right?



Yes, it's been my experience, however, they also denote and list the violations which have been found and need to be corrected. The contractor can be present or not. They are notified of the finding and the action that will be taken.



zannej said:


> An attorney would be necessary to seek restitution for alleged damages as there would not be such satisfaction from the government?



There comes a point where the choice of compensation can factor into the decision to file with the state or take the money, however, if the violation are sufficiently egregious to warrant the suspension of the license and the factoring of their construction bond. 



zannej said:


> I'm not judging the OP, but I admit I was baffled that any work was started without a clear plan going forward. Maybe it's just me, but I would think some sort of plan would be required before demo began so they would know what did and did not need demo. I personally would want a very clear plan of what needed to be done (with allowances for hidden surprises behind the walls that might require modification). But then, I have a fascination with construction and would want to know about everything that was going on.



There are so many wrongs in this entire escapade, it's astounding.



zannej said:


> I know there are people who feel like they wouldn't ever be able to understand the intricacies of construction so they leave it up to the contractors. Usually it's people who have never been screwed over or who are trusting who don't ask questions or who go forward.



When I'm referred to a prospective customer I have numerous questions of them, before I even agree to work for them. 



zannej said:


> Anyway, I hope the OP gives an update on how this worked out (or if it doesn't work out).



Someday.


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## nealtw (Jul 18, 2016)

merk said:


> Hi All,
> 
> In a dispute with my crappy contractor who is now resorting to threatening me with cease and desist letters if i dont remove my reviews of them.
> 
> ...


 I just went back and read some of your earlier threads and it is too bad that we didn't get that, this was an ongoing mess all under one contract.
At this point all we can do is cheer lead for you and let you vent.
I think the best advice we could have given was stop the work and deal with whatever happens after that. And it sounds like you are there already so good luck and keep us posted.:hide:


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## merk (Jul 18, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> Do you have a back-quote for the "sucker" comment, or are you protracting.
> 
> Having read the thread through, the question, his statement that it's been resolved, his statement that he has already filed a complaint with The Department of Consumer Affairs, State Contractors License Board, published on social media and contacted CBS news for his 2sec. of fame, all without availing himself of the resources available to him.
> 
> ...



there's a difference between ruffling feathers and just being rude - and you are rude. 

I'm not looking for 2 seconds of fame. I'd be much happier not having my name or face appear anywhere. I just dont want these guys to keep scamming other people. 

As for sharing an unedited version of events - how is my version edited? How would you know if it's edited if you didn't know what the full version of events are? Did you read what I posted on that site? Tell me what about it makes you think it's edited it some way?

And a mod should feel free to lock this thread at this point since it's basically devolving into personal attacks at this point i think. I appreciate the advice given from others.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 18, 2016)

merk said:


> there's a difference between ruffling feathers and just being rude - and you are rude.



The way I've addressed this, is the same way I speak in person and had you taken the time to read through my posts, you would know the course of action to achieve the greatest recovery.



merk said:


> I'm not looking for 2 seconds of fame. I'd be much happier not having my name or face appear anywhere. I just dont want these guys to keep scamming other people.



I've outlined the method. 



merk said:


> As for sharing an unedited version of events - how is my version edited?



Where's the contract documents?



merk said:


> How would you know if it's edited if you didn't know what the full version of events are?



Asked and answered.



merk said:


> Did you read what I posted on that site?



Yes.



merk said:


> Tell me what about it makes you think it's edited it some way?



Where's the contract documents, plans and specifications.



merk said:


> And a mod should feel free to lock this thread at this point since it's basically devolving into personal attacks at this point i think. I appreciate the advice given from others.



If you were actually looking to evolve your experience into an instructional experience for others, that could have been stated in post #1, but it, sadly, wasn't.


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## merk (Jul 18, 2016)

The contract isn't going to add anything of substance to this, unless of course you think i am lying. The only thing in the contract that really comes into play is the payment schedule and completion date. 

The contract itself is very poorly written - something the CSLB has cited them on. So even if i do post it, a lot of it would be hard to read.

And the plans and spec - again, no relevance to anything i said, other than the island being 4 inches shorter than what it was supposed to be. 

Although I don't think it can hurt to make those documents publically available so I'll upload them to the site later today. 

I honestly don't know if you think are you are being helpful or if you are trolling people. So you might want to reconsider how you approach people - even if your words are informative, if you are insulting people and turning them away, then your words are mostly wasted. 

And I'm going to unsubscribe from getting notifications on this thread since I don't really think anything productive will come from continuing to discuss this with you (snoonyb) and it's largely off topic at this point.


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## slownsteady (Jul 18, 2016)

Merk; don't post the documents. You have a vulture...errr, I mean lawyer circling you and you don't want to give him/her any more ammunition.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 18, 2016)

merk said:


> The contract isn't going to add anything of substance to this, unless of course you think i am lying. The only thing in the contract that really comes into play is the payment schedule and completion date.



As well as the start date and the rescissionary notice.

So you've been to the License Board site and you know how this business is held, if there are any disciplinary actions pending, and under what conditions a deposit can be demanded, and you were advised of your right to have payments directed from an escrow account. 



merk said:


> And the plans and spec - again, no relevance to anything i said, other than the island being 4 inches shorter than what it was supposed to be.



Everything about a project gone bad is a learning experience. 



merk said:


> Although I don't think it can hurt to make those documents publically available so I'll upload them to the site later today.



Be sure and redact your information. 



merk said:


> I honestly don't know if you think are you are being helpful or if you are trolling people.



I've been at it over 35yrs, and warranty my work as long as that customer resides in that dwelling. 



merk said:


> So you might want to reconsider how you approach people - even if your words are informative, if you are insulting people and turning them away, then your words are mostly wasted.



Not a one have asked for absolution for making bad decisions, because all I ever ask is the true whole story. 



merk said:


> And I'm going to unsubscribe from getting notifications on this thread since I don't really think anything productive will come from continuing to discuss this with you (snoonyb) and it's largely off topic at this point.



That's your choice, or, you could consider the last statement from my last answer,
for the edification of others.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 18, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Merk; don't post the documents. You have a vulture...errr, I mean lawyer circling you and you don't want to give him/her any more ammunition.



So, why don't you share the name of the contractors law firm?

Unless of course, it's just another spurious, unfounded, erroneous assumption.


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## slownsteady (Jul 19, 2016)

Whaaaaat?????? Are you just swinging at everybody now? You are so defensive about this, that I wonder if you are involved.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 19, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Whaaaaat?????? Are you just swinging at everybody now? You are so defensive about this, that I wonder if you are involved.



So, I was correct,  just another spurious, unfounded, erroneous assumption.


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 23, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> Why do you feel the OP is a knucklehead?
> 
> Consumers are taken everyday by shady/unqualified _contractors_.
> 
> ...


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## havasu (Jul 23, 2016)

Sometimes I feel certain folks in here become quite defensive as if they are one of these shyster contractors themselves. I had an active situation regarding a contractor, which is still quite active, but I won't post anything in here because I don't want to deal with certain defensive members.


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## GBR (Jul 23, 2016)

------------ Welcome to the forums!----------

      Green board is not required in a kitchen- unless local amendments stipulate; *2509*; http://premiumaccess.iccsafe.org/document/code/373/6564107

Gary


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## Snoonyb (Jul 24, 2016)

havasu said:


> Sometimes I feel certain folks in here become quite defensive as if they are one of these shyster contractors themselves. I had an active situation regarding a contractor, which is still quite active, but I won't post anything in here because I don't want to deal with certain defensive members.



Well stated, from someone who has little to no knowledge of residential construction other than to, rely upon the government, by default, as the solution to all ills.

At the expense of personal responsibility.


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## Chris (Jul 24, 2016)

I see all this as an a homeowner that did not do any homework and signed into a contract with no plans or specs on the project with a bad contractor.

Even once begun the homeowner still kept giving money for items not done yet. That is the leverage a homeowner has. One would have to be proactive in that regard and tell the contractor to clean up his mess before payment or verify things are done first.

Homeowner should have never gotten involved with inspection process and managing subs. With a proper inspection it makes sure things are done to code.

For things like a window replaced not in contract. Simply refuse to pay for it. There is no contract. As a contractor you can't just show up and work and send a bill. Have to have things in writing.

This project was just a mess from day one on both sides.

I doubt I would let someone tear out my kitchen and rip off my porch before we even agreed on what we were going to do with them.


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## zannej (Jul 24, 2016)

Good point, Chris. 
I think he's learned his lesson and won't be repeating the mistake.
Meanwhile, the contractor will continue to do this to people so long as they are unaware of his practices-- if he keeps his license.

Even if he loses his license, there is no telling if that will stop the contractor. The lack of a license didn't stop him from starting on this project.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 24, 2016)

The difficulty in both pursuing these unscrupulous individuals legally, and via the state licensing bureaus, is that the very next day they can reappear and continue their illicit operation.

While pontificating on social media will have some salutary appeal, it won't get your project completed, it won't get any of the contractor failings corrected or cured and it won't get any of your monies returned.You may have alerted some folks about that business enterprise.

What it does accomplish, is to reduce your negotiating position.

The state board may or may not factor the license, may or may not suspend the license bond, may or may not compile a list of corrective actions.

With any action taken by the state board, including suspension, once the contractor has complied and not committed any additional infractions, full reinstatement can be granted.

Unbeknownst to this OP and another, there is a process that is dictated by the results you wish to obtain, based upon the legitimate loses that have been realized, and having something other then a rudimentary knowledge of the system, helps.


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## Chris (Jul 25, 2016)

I agree, the way the HO went about it is not helping the situation in anything except he will feel a little better. In all reality the only thing that is going to get items fixed properly is an inspector and holding money until things are done especially in CA. I see that the contractor was licenses somewhere around 2013 so he at least has a couple years under his belt. Problem is that in CA it is far too easy to get a license and far too easy to jump around and keep or get new licensing.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 25, 2016)

While the license board in every state can access fees, ON THEIR BEHALF, not the injured party, an attny. can and will negotiate for a financial recovery both from insurance and personal, and depending upon the nature of the action may penetrate a corporate vail.

Pursuit to that depth will seldom happen via the state board, in residential, in other words, it's not worth their time.

Here is a resource available in every state;http://www.thebluebook.com Search term;Lawyer.


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## Chris (Jul 25, 2016)

There is no debtors prison for the private sector.

I have been burned by contractors myself and also property owners. Never have I seen a dime from any of it. It's cheaper to just not fight it. Only people getting rich are lawyers.


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## slownsteady (Jul 25, 2016)

I think the Op's other motive was to shout loudly about this guy. This thread will also serve as a warning - to anyone who reads it - about being cautious when hiring.


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## Snoonyb (Jul 25, 2016)

There are no dumb questions and because you don't know, what you don't know, asking will broaden your understanding.


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