# Clueless Girl's Basement Overhead Light Not working



## shannongirl (Feb 18, 2017)

Hey guys,
This must seem like a silly question.  Basement light went out.  It hanging on the ceiling wood, switch activated (no chain). Changed the light bulb but didn't work.  Attached to the light fixture is a box for "5VA 10W Nutone Scovill 515-N." from google I found this seems to be a box for the front door doorbell which is still working fine.  There is a thick black electrical wire attached to lighting fixture which, OMG, doesn't plug into anything but just goes up the wall.  Not sure how to fix this.  Any clue please?  Txs- Shannon


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## Snoonyb (Feb 18, 2017)

That fixture will have a black and white wire connected to it by screw terminals, so with the switch off loosen the 2 screws holding the fixture to the box and rotate it counterclockwise so it comes loose from the screws. Pull it down enough to see if the wires are still connected, and if not the loose connection is further up the line, yet most likley in that box.


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## JoeD (Feb 18, 2017)

Not just with the switch off. Turn the breaker off. If you don't know which one, keep trying until the doorbell stops working.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

First of all  to the forum.

Yes, I agree with JoeD. Since the doorbell transformer is connected to the fixture box it would lead me to believe that the switch is a switch loop and by turning off just the switch some of the conductors in the fixture box in the ceiling will still be hot. Flipping off each breaker and testing the door bell will let you know once the door bell does not work that you have turned off the proper breaker. If you feel comfortable enough taking off the light bulb fixture by unscrewing the screws and then twisting the light fixture (don't grab the fixture by the bulb, it may break off in your hand and cut you. Grab the fixture and twist it gently once you loosen the screws), then once the fixture separates from the box take a few clear pictures so we can see the conductors (wires) in the box. Again, keep the breaker off while the fixture is disconnected from the box.


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## DFBonnett (Feb 19, 2017)

Could that small hole in the fixture for a pull chain that broke off and snapped up inside? Since there is a transformer attached it would seem unlikely that the power to the light is switched from elsewhere. Another possibility is that the new bulb is NG also.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

DFBonnett said:


> Could that small hole in the fixture for a pull chain that broke off and snapped up inside? Since there is a transformer attached it would seem unlikely that the power to the light is switched from elsewhere. Another possibility is that the new bulb is NG also.



Yes, it is possible that the little hole (hard to see) could be where a string was once attached in the past. The OP states that there is switch that controls this light. Of course if this fixture did have at one time a string to turn on and off the light it then in order for the switch to control it the string would have had to be pulled to be sure the light fixture is in the on position so that when the switch is used the light fixture will function correctly.

We have to go according to what the OP has stated so far and that is they use the switch to turn it on and off. But if there was a string on this fixture up until recently and someone tugged on it and broke the string it is possible that even using an existing switch the fixture will not turn the bulb on because the string control is in the off position.

Even though there is a bell transformer in the box you can still have constant power at the box to feed the door bell but at the same time a switch loop to the switch to control the light fixture. 

It is hard to tell if there are any other cables going to that fixture box.

shannongirl: other than the large fat black cable and the smaller wire connected to the door bell transformer are there any other cables going to this light fixture? You said you used a switch to turn it on and off. But was there a string or chain hanging from it at one time in the near past?


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## Kabris (Feb 19, 2017)

Yes that is a pull chain pendant light. Either the pull chain has been removed and bypassed, or it is broken. Either way the OP needs to kill power and open it up. The problem is probably something simple and even if the socket failed, those pendants are really inexpensive to replace.


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## bud16415 (Feb 19, 2017)

That fixture is the old porcelain type that have been around 100 years. They make a plastic one that looks just about the same. For a couple bucks more. 

I would kill the power as described pull the fixture down check for voltage after turning the power back on at the two screws on the back. when you see you have voltage that goes on and off with the switch, turn power off again and replace it with the plastic lamp base fixture and throw the old one out.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

Kabris said:


> Yes that is a pull chain pendant light. Either the pull chain has been removed and bypassed, or it is broken. Either way the OP needs to kill power and open it up. The problem is probably something simple and even if the socket failed, those pendants are really inexpensive to replace.



Ok, could not tell from picture if it was a hole for a pull chain as my eyes (even with glasses) are not so good.

Yes agreed the fixtures are cheap to replace. We just need to know how it is wired first before the OP takes it apart to replace it.

Some people do have these fixtures in the basement. They may have two, three four or more depending on the size of the basement and some basements have different rooms. One switch at the top of the stairs may turn on all the lights in the basement but sometimes a home owner may not want all of them on at one time so the pull chain allows them to have only a few on at a time to maybe illuminate the stairs going to the basement and the area just around the stairs. This way they are not burning all the lights if not being used at the time.


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## shannongirl (Feb 19, 2017)

Thank you every one for your quick and kind replies.  I do appreciate it.


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## shannongirl (Feb 19, 2017)

Thank you, bud16415.  Sorry to not understand but...how do I check the voltage?  Also, I don't mind buying a new fixture but....(1) what about the box connected to it for the doorbell?  and  (2) there is a thick black wire going into it that god only knows where it goes to, its not like a regular plug cord- will that connect to a new fixture?


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## shannongirl (Feb 19, 2017)

afjes_2016 said:


> First of all  to the forum.
> 
> Thank you!


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

shannongirl said:


> Thank you.  Sorry to not understand but...how do I check the voltage?  Also, I don't mind buying a new fixture but....(1) what about the box connected to it for the doorbell?  and  (2) there is a thick black wire going into it that god only knows where it goes to, its not like a regular plug cord- will that connect to a new fixture?



We will guide you step by step if you would like but if at any time you feel uncomfortable doing something you have to let us know.

*Before you follow these steps please go to the circuit breaker panel in the home, open the door of it (the door should just open easily without having to remove any screws) and take a clear picture of the panel. Also let us know if you know if there is more than one panel in the home.*

The first thing you need to do is find out what circuit breaker that light fixture is on. Before you do anything with it you must shut off the power to that light box. Since you said the door bell works what I suggest and a few others is to shut off one breaker at a time. While that breaker is in the "off" position try ringing the door bell. If it rings, then put that breaker back on and go to the next one. 

Once we have determined and verified that the power is off to that light fixture box we can go from there. Do not attempt to remove the light fixture at this point until the power is disconnected. Turning the switch to the "off" position may not disconnect all power in the light fixture box.


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## shannongirl (Feb 19, 2017)

Thank you afjes_2016 for your many replies.  You are so helpful.

So to answer some things- I've never had a chain on the light.  I don't really see where there would have been one (there's two little holes on either side but being that there is two seems like they are not for chains?).  

This is the laundry room and there is a light switch as you come into the room that turns it on which also has two sockets in it- and if you plug into them- they still provide power. 

Could it be the switch itself just isn't working (even though the plug sockets are)?

I can try to unscrew the fixture tomorrow (need power down there today) and take a photo- so it would be a photo in the box-thing that controls the doorbell?

Is it easier to replace the light fixture (?) but.....hmmmmm....  
The doorbell box thing is connected to the light fixture so is there a certain kind in need?  
Also it has this thick wire going into the fixture that I don't know where it goes so will i be able to connect that to any new fixture?  oh boy, i really am useless at these things


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

We will answer the other questions once you have made sure the power if off to that box. In order to answer some of the questions you have we need to see how the light operates first. Again, do not take off the light fixture until you are told to do so. If you can not shut off power until tomorrow that is fine but if you can at least take a picture of the circuit breaker panel and post that it would be helpful to us. Please remember, in order to open the door of the panel it should just swing open, you do not nor should you have to remove any screws on the panel to open the door.


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## Kabris (Feb 19, 2017)

It could be the switch yes, but I would start at the light (with the power off). You shouldn't need to touch the doorbell transformer, looks like it is properly nippled to the box. No need to take the box down, just unscrew the mounting screws on the light fixture. Don't even take the screws all the way out, just loosen and rotate the fixture counterclockwise to remove.


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## Kabris (Feb 19, 2017)

And like afjes_2016 said, pictures are very helpful, the more the better.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 19, 2017)

shannongirl said:


> Thank you, bud16415.  Sorry to not understand but...how do I check the voltage?  Also, I don't mind buying a new fixture but....



What bud's talking about is using a VOM, (VOLT, OHM Meter), to check for the presence of voltage at the fixture and possibly at the switch, so before you start spending money on speculation, there is an orderly process of elimination, some of which may seem redundant, but is a process.

You can purchase a VOM from any hdwr. store and you don't need anything expensive.

There are also non-contact or proximity testers which will be useless in this quest, because they only indicate the presence of voltage and not the value or exact location.  



shannongirl said:


> (1) what about the box connected to it for the doorbell?



Thats actually not a box, but a transformer that is powered from the same circuit the lights are and is connected inside that light box. 

[/quote] 





shannongirl said:


> (2) there is a thick black wire going into it that god only knows where it goes to, its not like a regular plug cord- will that connect to a new fixture?



Its trade neme is ROMEX and is standard house wiring conductor.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 19, 2017)

shannongirl: When you would flip the light switch so this light would come on in the past when it was working did other lights come on in the basement also or do you just have this one light that comes on with the switch when it was working.


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## bud16415 (Feb 19, 2017)

I will only speak for myself here and others might want to continue to help. This is on a scale of 1-10 as a DIY electrical project is a 2. There are certain basic tools and principals required to trouble shoot an electrical problem and you must be able to grasp them to do this safely. As I applaud your wanting to tackle the repair I question if you are ready to even be walked thru it alone. The last thing I ever want to hear is that someone was hurt by the information or encouragement we provided. 

I suggest you seek out a friend or family member or neighbor that has a few basic DIY electrical skill to give you a hand. You will need a helper to push the doorbell anyway. Tell them you want to learn and not just have them do it and allow them to read what we have told you on here. 

The other method is self education and you can go to one of the builder centers box stores and buy a $15 - 20 multi-meter and a $10 basic home wiring book and read it for the basics. At that point come back here and ask all the specific questions you have. You will need a few basic tools and supplies to tackle DIY home wiring problems also like a screw driver, wire cutter, striper, a few wire nuts etc. The book will show you what these things are and how to use them. 

For me I&#8217;m sorry but right now I don&#8217;t feel you are yet ready to start checking 120V lines.


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## DFBonnett (Feb 19, 2017)

OP,
Have you verified that bulb #2 isn't defective by trying a third bulb or trying this bulb in a different fixture?


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## nealtw (Feb 19, 2017)

I haven't read everything but those fixtures often have a problem with the center tab on touching to contact on the bulb.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 20, 2017)

I honestly think that shannongirl should follow Bud's advice and take a step back on this and ask assistance from a friend or neighbor who may have a bit more basic knowledge of electrical.


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## shannongirl (Feb 20, 2017)

Hey Thanks everybody for the replies.  You are all so nice to spend your own time helping someone else. :trophy:

So to answer a question- I've tried 3 bulbs and they all work in other fixtures. 

I was able to located the fuse and turn off power and test with the doorbell chime to make sure power was off.  I took photos of both the switch and the light fixture.  I'll send them in two different posts because i'm not sure how many i can add to one post.

I wonder if I just buy a new switch part (just the switch part that i took photo of) and also a new light part would it fix it.  Only I don't understand if I buy a new light part.....will i be able to add the BOX with the Nutone chime to it?


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## shannongirl (Feb 20, 2017)

Here are photos of the switch.  Everything "looks" connected and OK.  Thanks!


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## shannongirl (Feb 20, 2017)

Here's the light wires.  They all look solid and connected.  Thanks for taking the time to look at these.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 20, 2017)

shannongirl said:


> Hey Thanks everybody for the replies.  You are all so nice to spend your own time helping someone else. :trophy:
> 
> So to answer a question- I've tried 3 bulbs and they all work in other fixtures.
> 
> ...



See post #18 Note #1.

When you have purchased the VOM, read the instructions and still need direction, it will be provided.

Can you post a photo of the side of the switch the red conductor is attached too?


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## Kabris (Feb 20, 2017)

Everything does look connected. You probably have a failed component, whether it be the light socket or the switch.


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## Kabris (Feb 20, 2017)

You wouldn't need to touch the box or the chime transformer, just the part the red and white wires is connected to.


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## JoeD (Feb 20, 2017)

A simple test would be to take the two wires (red and black)off the switch and join them with a wire nut. If the light comes on when the fuse is installed then the switch was bad. If the light does not come on then the light socket is bad.

Can you take the bulb out of the socket and post a close up of the socket showing the inside.


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## shannongirl (Feb 20, 2017)

It works!
The fixture was only $1.49 and the switch .88 cents so I bought both.  Replaced the fixture putting it just the way it the old one was.  Easy.  Couldn't have done it without your brainstorming and help.  What a bunch of selfless and helpful guys!  Wow!  Real men help others in need!  THank you so much.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 20, 2017)

Congratulations, we love happy endings!


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## Kabris (Feb 20, 2017)

Glad to help, good job!


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