# Identify this substance



## Basbousa (Feb 6, 2014)

I've recently become the proud owner of a 1938 home which needs quite a bit of work.  I am hoping to do most of it myself.

I recently looked under the thin carpet that covers the entry way... and this is what I found.  I eventually want to tile the entry way, but I have no idea what this stuff is, if I need to remove it before tiling or just go over it.  Although it is cracked, the pieces seem to be glued down, and I wasn't able to remove them.

So, what do you think this is?


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## nealtw (Feb 6, 2014)

Vinyl flooring cr, 1970. By the look of the wear the sub floor may need some help, you may be able to tile over as long as it is stuck down good. If you are thinking about taking it up, check out this site, some of this stuff had asbestos in it.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/removing-old-vinyl-flooring-techniques-26745.html


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## Basbousa (Feb 7, 2014)

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I love the vinyl flooring and I'm keeping it.  It's in the kitchen.  The stuff under the carpet is the entry way, which borders the kitchen.  The carpet is barely adhered to that bumpy, cracked... whatever it is.... and it stops where the kitchen starts.  That's what I want to know about.  A friend who saw the same photo as I posted here says it's probably tile mud, but I think it's too thick to be old mud.


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## nealtw (Feb 7, 2014)

Your friend might be right, usually you would be able to see the marks of a v notch trowel or the marking on the back of the tile.


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## bud16415 (Feb 7, 2014)

It looks like floor leveling compound.


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## Basbousa (Feb 7, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> It looks like floor leveling compound.


Oh my.  I have been thinking about using self leveling concrete in the bathroom... I'll bet you're right.  The previous owner did a lot of work himself, and unfortunately, not all of it was done correctly and will end up costing me more.

Hmm.  Can I tile over this?  What about peel and stick vinyl?  Or should I do the real stuff?  Does it matter?


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## nealtw (Feb 7, 2014)

If it is a concrete type product and isn't cracked, to me it says the sub is in good shape for tiling on. Peel and stick would want a smooth base.


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## bud16415 (Feb 7, 2014)

When you get the carpet up see what it looks like. Broom and vacuum it good and if it&#8217;s mostly stuck down good get anything loose out and get a bag of the leveling compound and fix the few bad spots. The peel and sticks are pretty DIY friendly and as Neil pointed out you need a smooth flat surface for best results. If you plan on doing tile I think you then want to look at what you have much closer and there are a few flooring experts here that will offer advice and will want to see some pictures of the whole floor first under the carpet. Floors like laminate and these peel and sticks etc. are more of an easy first timer DIY project and can look nice and last a long time if used carefully. Full tile is a couple steps up IMO and you don&#8217;t want to take a chance with not having a proper base.


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## Basbousa (Feb 9, 2014)

Alright, so I started at the other end (the front door) and peeled back the carpet... and this is what I found.

You can also see that by the door, there's a water pipe coming in, and it's barely covered by whatever flooring/self leveling compound they used.  When I had the house inspected, the inspector said I should tile over it to protect it somewhat from the elements.  There is no difference in height from the front door thresh hold, so if there was a water issue outside, it's gonna come right in.

So, black "tile" or mold?  It felt drafty and colder when I pulled up the carpet.  And what's your opinion on how to handle the pipe?  I have forced hot water for heat.


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## nealtw (Feb 9, 2014)

Is this a wood floor over a crawlspace or basement or is this a concrete slab?


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## inspectorD (Feb 10, 2014)

That there is a concrete floor with some Mastic glue for the old linoleum square tiles. No mold from what I can see of the picture, Looks like you need to get this stuff up before you do any tile work.
I see the holes in the concrete from the carpet tack strips they nailed down.
just my opinion, but that floor is going to be cold with tile on it, my guess is that was why they went with carpeting to get a warmer feel on cold days.

This thread from the Journal of light construction for professionals only should help to explain.

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/...-like-floor-adhesive-off-concrete-effectively

Good luck


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## bud16415 (Feb 10, 2014)

I think you have to decide on what type of flooring you will want and also how big of a project you are willing to get into. The pipe running so close to the top of the floor is quite odd and tends to cry out Previous owner DIY project. That and how the pipes jump up and over the wall framing. Before you bury all that piping in a new expensive floor make sure it is all done correctly as now is the time to do it if it isn&#8217;t. 

Those black tiles, how hard do they come up with a scrapper type tool? I&#8217;m also curious as to Neil&#8217;s question.


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## Basbousa (Feb 10, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Is this a wood floor over a crawlspace or basement or is this a concrete slab?


This part of the house is over a concrete slab.  The rest of the house is basement.


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## Basbousa (Feb 10, 2014)

inspectorD said:


> That there is a concrete floor with some Mastic glue for the old linoleum square tiles. No mold from what I can see of the picture, Looks like you need to get this stuff up before you do any tile work.
> I see the holes in the concrete from the carpet tack strips they nailed down.
> just my opinion, but that floor is going to be cold with tile on it, my guess is that was why they went with carpeting to get a warmer feel on cold days.
> 
> ...


 
That makes perfect sense.  Thanks for the link, that was helpful to read.  Can you explain why I have to remove the black adhesive/mastic?  Will nothing stick to it?  I was thinking peel and stick vinyl for this area since it's just the entry way.


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## Basbousa (Feb 10, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> I think you have to decide on what type of flooring you will want and also how big of a project you are willing to get into. The pipe running so close to the top of the floor is quite odd and tends to cry out Previous owner DIY project. That and how the pipes jump up and over the wall framing. Before you bury all that piping in a new expensive floor make sure it is all done correctly as now is the time to do it if it isnt.
> 
> Those black tiles, how hard do they come up with a scrapper type tool? Im also curious as to Neils question.


 
Yep the previous owner was definitely a DIY'er, but I think he kind of did what he thought was best rather than consult pros or more experienced people like yourselves.

Any suggestions for how to deal with the pipe?


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## nealtw (Feb 10, 2014)

The best way to deal with the pipe is to put it back into the wall which would include some digging up concrete. Starting another thread in plumbing or heating might bring better info. on the size of that job.


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## inspectorD (Feb 10, 2014)

Basbousa said:


> That makes perfect sense.  Thanks for the link, that was helpful to read.  Can you explain why I have to remove the black adhesive/mastic?  Will nothing stick to it?  I was thinking peel and stick vinyl for this area since it's just the entry way.



Well... it may not stick to that mastic... and It may... only trying a piece will let you know for sure. 
Having done this  before, I would do what the other pro's have done in the post I gave you, one even had a link. Go with as much removed as possible, and install some self leveling compound. (Per Chuck)

As for the pipe. leave it. Build a new foot rack, seat or a coat cubby. Get creative behind the door, your not putting a furniture there anyway.

If this was easy, everyone would be doin it.


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## bud16415 (Feb 11, 2014)

As to the pipe if its working and not leaking just leave it alone and do as posted above or just set a plant in front of it. If there is any apparent problem with it my point was now would be the time to fix it. Some people would hate seeing a pipe sticking out like that and others it wouldn&#8217;t bother in the least others might look for a way to hide it. 
As to the floor if you want to do a peel n stick floor or something thin enough to not cause a problem with the door, just patch up the bad spots and clean what&#8217;s there real good and put it right over. There are floating floors that look like tile also . You could do new carpet over what is there. If you want a real tile job my guess is you will want to take up the tile that&#8217;s there and work off the base floor after prepping it. 

Tell us what kind of floor you want and then the right people will hopefully respond.


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## Basbousa (Feb 19, 2014)

My main concern about the exposed pipe wasn't necessarily cosmetic, but whether it would be vulnerable in any way.  If it's only a cosmetic issue, I'm fine with the plant stuck in front 

Here is the tile I think I've decided on[SIZE=+1].  I also have a few peel and stick tiles that I bought as samples for another room, and I could try to see if they will adhere to the floor as a test.

I've torn off the commercial vinyl "baseboard" and found some dead termites glued to the inside.  While I have it all open, should I spray something to prevent them from returning?  I know termite extermination should be professionally done, but I'm hoping these are the remnants of a previous extermination.  The digger we deep, the more we find...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/MS-Inter...l-Tile-1-sq-ft-case-THDW3-T-CAN6X6T/100664275[/SIZE]


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## nealtw (Feb 19, 2014)

I like the stone tiles!! The pipe will be fine as long as no one takes a hammer to it.. It may get very hot when the heat is on. If you could lay your hands on some of the metal that covers the rest of the heat system you could Hide it with out much effort.


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