# I wanted to put new drywall on my bedroom walls but now I might have a problem



## RipTheJacker

I took off a tiny piece of drywall in my room and behind it there seems to be  tiny boards one on top of the other running horizontally. I was hoping there would be regular 2x4s holding the wall. This house is kind of old so maybe it was built differently but does this affect how I will attach drywall? I need help pleas. Thanks

and this is my first post. What's up!


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## RipTheJacker

and i only took off a piece so maybe there are 2x4s there but i have no idea


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## mikemeier

Can you send a picture?


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## RipTheJacker

Sure will. Hold up


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## RipTheJacker

thats a tv cable coming out of the wall and to the right you can barely see the wooden paneling that was over the drywall.


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## glennjanie

Welcome RipTheJacker:
The wall is typical old fashoned lath and plaster. Yes, the little small boards are probably attached to studs maybe on 2' centers. New drywall can be applied over the old provided you shim the places where the plaster is missing to level it up. You will need to locate the studs so you can attach the new drywall to them, especially at the joints.
Thanks for the pictures and We wish you the best with the project.
Glenn


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## RipTheJacker

wow didn't expect this much help! THANKS! and if anybody has anymore input please provide it.


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## RipTheJacker

so can I just remove these boards and then attach drywall to the studs like newer houses?


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## hondadrv24

yeah you can if you want to go to all that work.  I probably would but Glenn had an idea to just overlay.  if your doing exterior walls I would definitely suggest ripping it all down and re-insulating as the insulation in those old houses tends to not be the best.  If you are only going to do 1 or 2 walls i would get a small hand grinder with a cutting wheel to cut the corners before you rip the plaster and lathe off so that you don't rip the plaster off of the wall that you want to save.  Be sure to wear a respirator and if you are going to cut with the hand grinder using a shop vac right with it cuts down on the dust immensely.
Welcome to the forum
Justin


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## RipTheJacker

oh no i do just wanna lay dry wall over I thought if i took off these horizontal boards it would look like the structure of newer houses. So how would i go about(in detail) replacing these walls the easiest way?


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## RipTheJacker

I really need to start on this project soon since it's already getting cold in the midwest. I need all the input, advice, and instructions I can get. I still need to tear off this paneling to reveal the drywall. I could take pictures and post them if needed. How can i tell when drywall needs to be replaced and not just repaired with mud or tape? And does anyone have a link on how to put drywall on lath and plaster walls? I need as much detail in the instructions as possible. I really want to get a person to do this for me but rather not spend the money on labor. I just need them to put up the drywall. I can do the mud and tape work myself. Does anyone know how much they should charge for an average size bedroom? and all the walls wont need to be replaced and I can tell the ceiling is fine.


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## RipTheJacker

Thanks for the help guys <_<


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## inspectorD

Jack, you should post a picture of what you have after you take out the paneling.
Sheetrock is easy to hang, you screw it to the studs. I would take all the plaster off, wood lath and fix or update anything you need to inside the walls.
That is all pure labor and a dust mask and dumpster. 
Then you get to do everything right, and if you have an issue some day you are not messin around with all the stuff you buried. Besids that, going over plaster makes your trim work harder. You need to remove the baseboard and window trim to do that anyway.
Go to the library for a free book on remodeling and sheetrock, that way you know the advice is good and handy. 
There are plenty of sites for sheetrockin, just google it.
Let us know what else you need. And remember, have some fun with the demo, I usually cut a persons lifesize cuttout into the plaster and show the customer. It always gets a chuckle.


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## Square Eye

Just a lil something more...
Use screws to fasten the drywall over plaster. Pounding in nails can loosen the old plaster and cause it to fall off in pieces behind the drywall. This will cause lumps and bumps that will make it hard to finish and generally ruin your day. The best route is to strip all of the old plaster off then drywall but if you decide to leave the plaster, Try to not disturb it any more than necessary.

Stud detectors are less effective through layers of drywall and plaster and wood lath but they still might help. The best way to locate studs is to break away the plaster near the floor a few inches wide all the way around the room and mark their location on the floor. 

Like InspectorD said, You'll have to put up a lot more effort to do this right but only you can decide what's worth doing and what's best left alone.


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## RipTheJacker

So are you telling me to just remove the drywall. Then leave the lath but remove the plaster entirely? or leave the lath and leave ONLY the plaster that may be sticking out causing trouble for new drywall i might put over it?


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## inspectorD

If this where my house, I would remove all old drywall and plaster and wood lath to start over from scratch. This way I can see all areas to improve upon.
This is a little more labor type of work, but like I said before, you will find it easier in the long run, and you will learn plenty.
We are here to help you along when you need it, but only you get to decide what is good for you.


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## mikemeier

Was there water damage? It kind of looks like there were some watermarks. If so, I would tear it out and replace it. Just make sure you figure out where the water is coming from and fix that before you put up new drywall.


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## RipTheJacker

Good eye you have there. There is a window just above this area to the right of the pic that you can not see. And i have an AC unit in the window. It sometimes drips water so that's where that water mark is most likely from. I hope to start tearing down this drywall within the next 2 weeks and I'll try to post pictures.


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## RipTheJacker

I just got through removing the paneling. It looks like most walls possibly all will have to be redone. Some started crumbling when I removed the paneling. I'd post pics right now but all my furniture is still obstructing the view of the walls. I've gotten an estimate from a friend when he seen the walls with the paneling still on and he said that it would cost around five or six hundred dollars. I'm willing to spend this much but I would also like to do it myself and save some money. I've done some mud work with my father on drywall so I know I could definitely do that. Just looking at these walls I'm thinking I could do this myself but once I remove the drywall I might think differently. I am probably going to need insulation and I don't know how I get that behind the lath and plaster(someone tell me). I hope the insulation isn't expensive. I'm going to get a few estimates from family friends that do this type of work.


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## Scorask

Hi Rip the Jacker, I have an older house too, built in 1925. I've been remodeling a room at a time and I would recommend removing all the old plaster and slat boards and starting fresh. Its hard work but its definitley worth it IMO.


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## Scorask

RipTheJacker said:


> I just got through removing the paneling. It looks like most walls possibly all will have to be redone. Some started crumbling when I removed the paneling. I'd post pics right now but all my furniture is still obstructing the view of the walls. I've gotten an estimate from a friend when he seen the walls with the paneling still on and he said that it would cost around five or six hundred dollars. I'm willing to spend this much but I would also like to do it myself and save some money. I've done some mud work with my father on drywall so I know I could definitely do that. Just looking at these walls I'm thinking I could do this myself but once I remove the drywall I might think differently. I am probably going to need insulation and I don't know how I get that behind the lath and plaster(someone tell me). I hope the insulation isn't expensive. I'm going to get a few estimates from family friends that do this type of work.



That old plaster will just continue to crumble, its really hard to patch. If you look closley at the old plaster you will see hairs in it, they call it Horse Hair Plaster, at least where I come from they do. The hardest part will be removing the old plaster and slat boards, it just makes a mess. and forget about getting insulation behind the slat boards, it not going to work, just start fresh.


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## RipTheJacker

Are you referring to the drywall as plaster?  Because the drywall  was crumbling not the plaster


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## RipTheJacker

and does anyone have a picture of what a house frame looks like when you remove the lath boards?


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## RipTheJacker

And can someone tell me why they built houses this way. what are the benefits of lath and plaster as opposed to 2x4s? also why is removing lath and plaster so frowned upon? is it just because it's messy?


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## inspectorD

Just plain messy, get a good 3m filter cartridge respirator. Put a fan in the window and blow all the dust out.
Just take it all down to the bare studs, this will be your best way to go about insulating and sheet rocking and any other issues you may not be aware of.
Going over plaster is like putting on a bandage without cleaning out the wound. Start fresh, trust us, this results in less headaches. Many folks can insulate and Sheetrock themselves, these are the easiest of the DIY trades besides painting.
GO to the library for a FREE book on old construction if you are worried.
I have been doing it for 25 years, we can get you through this.


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## RipTheJacker

Thank you. I really feel like i can do this if you guys guide me through. Im only 18 so im a total novice but at least I have youth on my side. You guys could be like my mentors. Being a novice I need EVERY SINGLE STEP AND INSTRUCTION AS DETAILED AS POSSIBLE. Even a list of all I would need would be great. I'm going to box up all the electronics in my room and remove them. Plus my bed and furniture and then I will remove this lath and plaster once i get a respirator. Of course me posting pictures will help you guys help me.

Edit: I was just reading the lath and plaster article on wikipedia and it said after the last coat of plaster was applied and dried that the walls were ready to be painted 0_o??? You mean people just painted over this stuff? It had to look atrocious.

and can somebody tell me which one of these respirators if any is suitable for this type of work?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=186091-429-95090-80000&
detail=&lpage=none

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=83346-429-95115-80025&lpage=none

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=75490-429-99485-80000&lpage=none

I'm hoping the second one is appropriate because it looks cool.


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## inspectorD

The first one looks fine, and is very reusable for other projects.
By the way, everyone needs to start somewhere. Just look at Square Eye...he started when he was 4 years old, probably hiting his dads table with a hammer. 
Sorry I couldn't help it. He's good.


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## Square Eye

I have the second one myself. Actually, I have 2 of them. The thing you have to remember to do with that type of respirator is to wipe them dry before you store them. I usually remove the filter cartridges and wash mine after a job. You don't want anything growing in there where you put your face! Inside the mask, there's a layer of thin vinyl, it's folded over inside to make the seal to your face, you need to make sure you wipe that out every time you wear it. 

As for whacking my dad's table... I don't remember doing that, but I do remember, he would *not* hold a nail while I tried to whack it with a hammer


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## RipTheJacker

I just got back from Home Depot. I got a regular white respirator for when I remove the drywall and the more expensive multi purpose respirator for when I remove the lath and plaster. Does this sound like a good idea or should I just use the multi purpose one for both? I also got some nice work gloves. With that said now I need tips or directions for removing this the drywall and lath and plaster if anyone would be so kind. More so the lath and plaster because I assume drywall is pretty straight forward.


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## T88M3

As far as the respirator goes.  It's your body.  If you don't mind coughing up plaster later on, then you can skimp.


As far as removing the laths and plaster..  HAMMER TIME!!








And maybe a wonder bar for the nails.


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## Square Eye

*Safety Glasses*, a hammer and a pry bar. 
Break the plaster dead center between the studs and pry the strips off or pull the nails. Be careful to not punch through and break the plaster on the other side of the wall.
A scoop shovel and a stiff broom will help with the clean-up.


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## RipTheJacker

I'm tearing down one wall right now. Oddly there's one area that doesn't seem to have lath and plaster it's just like a gap and then the lath and plaster starts again. Maybe this wouldn't seem odd to someone who knows more about this. I'll try to post pics tonight to show my progress.


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## Square Eye

There could be a lot of reasons for that, Maybe someone removed a door, maybe InspectorD was there cutting out human forms lol... Either way, it sounds like a patch or something was covered. 
Carry on


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## inspectorD

The first time I did that joke, the lady told all her freinds and laughed for a week. Best job ever. 

Things are always changing in homes, keep going, you should be fine.
You can add a few pieces of wood later to catch the new sheetrock where it is missing.


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## RipTheJacker

I just got through with that wall. Wow. So much work. And that's just one wall. Is it ok for the outlets that were in the wall to just be hanging? Also, will I be able to change where these outlets come out of the wall? I would like an outlet in my room to be higher. Sorry I can't post pics. I'm too exhausted.


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## Square Eye

Your outlets should be ok as long as you don't break the insulation. Treat them gently and when you set them in their final positions, fasten the wire so it doesn't get a screw through it.
This is your best opportunity to do any electrical upgrades you want. Grounded circuits, new switches, wall sconce lighting, whatever... Now is the time


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## RipTheJacker

Someone suggested i get the wiring done. I just want this room done. NOTHING ELSE. I dont want a electician to be pushy and try to do my entire house. I don't have the money for that. Also, I left a couple lath up still because I'm trying to decide the best way to remove them. They are right at the point where the wall meets the ceiling and the ceiling doesn't need to be redone so I don't want to damage it. I guess I will just carefully wiggle them out. It's just hard because I didn't know where the wall stops and the ceiling starts Also you mentioned insulation. If you're talking about about wall insulation these walls had none so I'm definitely installing some. If you're talking about something else, sorry.


edit....This wall has my bedroom door on it. Now my door doesn't close completely. I was doing a lot of banging around the door. Maybe I moved the frame or something.......... :/


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## Square Eye

The wiring has insulated conductors, the jacket that the wire is in. Make sure it doesn't get damaged


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## RipTheJacker

oh ok...the jacket that looks almost like a metal pipe


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## RipTheJacker

I'm averaging a little more than a wall a day so i should be done with the demolition by Thursday.


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## Square Eye

That's actually pretty good progress, especially for a first timer! 
Glad to hear that you're still making progress. You have taken on a pretty big job for one person. Don't get discouraged now. I have actually learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work by doing demo and paying attention to what I find. It's kind of like doing an autopsy of a home when you open up the walls and look at what's inside there.. interesting.. or not lol


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## RipTheJacker

Thanks for the kind words Square Eye. The wall I removed today was an exterior wall and it didn't even have insulation!! Now I expected this because I read this is just how they did things back then. So when I do put insulation do you think it'll make my room a lot warmer in the winter? Because winter sucks when you have a penny squeezing parent who doesn't let you touch the thermostat.


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## RipTheJacker

I took down practically all the drywall and lath and plaster except for the area around my fuse box which happens to be in my room. What should I do about that? Also how do you know when studs need to be replaced? My studs change in color. From light brown which are probably new to dark brown. Is it easy to do and how do you do it?







What Should I do?


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## inspectorD

You could get an electrician. 
This is most likely a sub-panel, and can be shut off at the main panel to work around it. But if you have no experience with electrical, get someone who does.
The stud color is fine, as long as it is not deteriorated, it can be purple with no issues. 
This will be a tricky spot and you will need to secure it as soon as possible when you remove the old plaster. 
Don't worry, your going to be OK. Just a small, but unsafe hurdle.


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## RipTheJacker

Do you know what's holding the fuse box in mid air? Also I'm pretty sure this is the only panel in the box and it controls the lights in every room so is this the main panel? I don't know where the main one could be in this house if this isn't it. So what do I do? Leave it alone? Would a electrician be willing to remove the lath and plaster around it when he comes. I don't know if that's part of his job.


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## inspectorD

Do you have a basement or somewhere the wires come into the house?
If you know nothing about electrical, get an electrician or someone else you know who is knowledgeable about a fuse box. 
You need to shut off the power around the box, then remove the plaster yourself. The box will be screwed to the studs(hopefully) and you will only need to remove the front cover. Then put a piece of sheetrock around the panel and turn the power back on.

It is not hard to do, just not safe if you do not know what to do.
It will take someone with experience about 30 minutes to complete this part of the job. Just continue on with other demo and figuring out what will be next besides this. 
I see wire lath in the corner, having fun yet? 
This stuff is nasty, wear good gloves. 
Just start asking around your neighbors or Friends.


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## RipTheJacker

> I see wire lath in the corner, having fun yet?


LOL. That literally made me laugh out loud. It was annoying removing that until I got annoyed and just yanked it out in one piece. I got some cuts on my arms now though. Do studs have to have the exact same depth(is that the right word?) Some  come out of the wall a little more than others. not much just centimeters.


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## RipTheJacker

Have another question.
Here's a picture of my floor. 




This is taken near where the floor meets the lath and stud. Once I remove this piece of a lath there will be a sizable gap. This lath is obstructing how I plan to hang my dry wall. I was thinking just buying the thickest drywall and then putting framing where the floor meets the wall(sorry don't know the exact term) which would hopefully cover the gap. I'm going to sand and finish my floor too. I can't wait to do that. It'll be effortless compared to what I'm doing now and it'll beautify the floor.


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## inspectorD

The gap will go away with adding some of the old wood lath you saved to the stud or some other pieces of wood. You can add some to each stud to fir it out to about a half inch to the floor. You will also be installing baseboard trim which will cover 3/4 and a small base shoe molding will add to the cover if you need it. Shoe molding is a small trim added at the floor and baseboard connection.

Looks like balloon framing you have there, just make sure you cannot see through to the basement. Buy some fire caulk and seal any openings , for larger openings use a scrap piece of wood screwed in with additional firecaulk to fill the gaps.

Keep up the good job.


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## RipTheJacker

Had a contractor come by and look at my room because I could tell some studs need to be sistered. He said he'd do the whole room with drywall insulation and  install new windows for 1000 dollars minus the materials. I don't know If I'm going to have him do it yet.


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## RipTheJacker

Ok i refuse to pay some guy 1000 dollars to do something I know I can do with effort(a lot of it). I'm going to post pics of areas i don't know what to do at. Pardon the furniture in some of the pictures.






Right here this stud is coming away from the frame. I can't hammer it back because of the nails in the way so should I just remove it and replace it with a stud of exact size? Explain what places to nail stud to if so.







Here tthe bottom stud in the first column is missing a piece. I don't know if it is intentional or not. And the stud in the second column is slanting as it gets to the bottom. What should I do here? A tutorial on how to sister or replace studs would be nice. I can't find one by searching google.






I'm afraid to take of the most upper pieces of lath from the all my walls because I'm afraid of damaging the ceiling? Should I just try to wiggle it loose as carefully as possible?

inspectord or anyone willing to help please be as detailed as possible. I suck at this


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## inspectorD

What did you dooo??? No problem, you can fix it. 
This looks just like a typical old frame job. No issues, exept that porcelain knob and tube wiring. You need an electrician to remove it and install new wiring in those areas you can get to for now. 
The framing, you can remove the loose stud, it is a nailer for the plaster or Sheetrock. Remove the nails and reattach it. Simple.
The stud that is short , add one on to the leg and attach it with more nails. Usually two 16 penny nails every 16 inches will do. Your not rebuilding the framing, just shoring up what is there a bit. 
The plaster at the ceiling can be cut out with a grinder, or a chisel and hammer. It has the wire lath in it also. Just get it so it is straight then fir ir out to the thickness of the plaster,then the Sheetrock will get cut to fit, then add some mud and tape. 

Someone framed in a window and covered it up. Not a big deal, just make sure nothing is falling down , or not supported, then add some 2x4s to give it support where needed.

I think you need to take a minute and go to the library for a free book on old ballon framing. Just to get the basics down. It will help in the long run.

That and some more experience. Which you are getting all the time.

Anyone else want to help the guy out? 

Share.


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## spaz2965

A lot of the old time framing is done that way. Like the inspector said the studs that don't go the whole way to the floor sister a stud next to it. As for the wireing looks like house has already been re-wired so I would let the old porcaline tubing there but would get rid of the wire as it looks like that has already been done. Are you gutting the whole house, or just your exterior walls so that you can get insutation in them? You may go over the pr-existing interior walls with 1/4 drywall and it will save you alot of mess, you may also do this to your exterior walls, and to insulate drill 2"-3" holes at the top between each cavity, the go to lowes and rent the machine and blow in insulation between cavities. If you buy 15 things of insulation you get the machine for free, you will still give deposit but get that back when you return, Note: if you don't uses all 15 bags of insulation return them after you return machine. Hope some of this helped an other questions you may send me a personal message and I will help further.

Joe~~


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## spaz2965

Question to you Jack. How did you post your pictures? New member here do I not have enough post so I can't?


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## RipTheJacker

Spaz, I posted my pictures by uploading them to a site called photobucket.com. Just register and upload your pictures there and the site will provide you with a link to post here that will display your pictures. 


Also, I'm having a friend who knows a lot more about this to help me with my room so I should be done in a couple weeks


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## inspectorD

That's what real freinds are for. 
Just some advice, do as much work as you can yourself, that way you stay freinds. 

Good luck, we'll still be here.


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## RipTheJacker

some studs are 3 1/2 inches thick which is fine but some one wall has studs that are 4 1/2 inches thick. Do they sell insulation 4 1/2 inches thick? Does insulation expand to fit the space?


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## inspectorD

They sell 2x6 studs you can rip down to 4 1/2 inches.
The insulation will be ok as long as you do not compress it.Compressed fiberglass looses insulating R value when it gets squished. Basically it uses air trapped in the fibers to insulate the wall. Fiberglass will expand to the 4 1/2 inches if you buy for 3 1/2 inch wall.
Good luck.


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## RipTheJacker

Just bought the drywall today. Carrying it is exhausting. Before I buy the insulation I just want to clarify what you said inspectorD. You said I can get the insulation that is 3 1/2 inches thick and place it in between all of my studs because it will expand? I also have a few more areas of concern. The spaces between my studs vary drastically. Some gaps between studs are as big as 23 inches and the smallest gap is probably around 7 inches. Will there be a wide enough strip of insulation(Batts I believe they're called) to fill this gap or is it ok to put 2 batts together to make it wide enough? Actually after searching I see the batts do come wide enough but it will be difficult choosing what size I get them in since the spaces between my wall studs varies so much. I might have to buy two different sizes so I don't have too much left over insulation. Should I get faced or unfaced batts? what's the difference? Thanks


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## inspectorD

You have it all figured out. 
Just as you said, you have different widths of insulation. Some for walls where the studs are 16 inches apart, and others for 24 inches apart. Count what you need and go buy it. 
The fiberglass will only expand slightly, and you need to buy the thickness deep enough for the wall. If you have 4 1/2 inch thich walls , go for the next size down always. That would be for a 3 1/2 inch wall. Don't buy insulation that is thicker than the wall.
As far as the vapor barrier goes, get the stuff with Kraft faced paper.
Basically any insulation with the facing on it will be fine. The facing always goes toward the heated space where you are. So it will be on the inside.

As far as the rest, cut to fit. Use a board to set on the insulation as you cut it, follow the board. Buy a good utility knife and change the razor blade as you need to.

I always wear long sleeves and gloves. Also a pair of goggles and paper respirator will help.
Use some fabric softerner to remove the fiberglass on you when you are done, and yes, take a cold shower first, so your pores do not open and let the fiberglass under your skin.

Have fun, no one likes insulation.


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