# (entry) door knob question



## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 3, 2017)

We currently have old keyed-entry door knobs on 2 main doors of our house...  They are the turn-button style (to lock and unlock from the inside), and they stay locked even when you try to open from the inside-- which I prefer.  

All keys have been needing extra jiggling to get the main door open as of late.  I bought brand new Schlage door knobs at local hardware store.  Just the right finish, and lo and behold, I actually installed the first one myself.  I was very pleased, until....

I found that the door knob turns/opens from the inside, even when locked-- which I do not like.  I like to check the doors each night before heading to bed by attempting to turn the knob and pulling on the door to ensure that the door is indeed locked.  Plus, although I am not sure, the knob may stay locked, even though you open the door from the inside (which is asking for a lockout with 2 kids in my opinion)

I have looked on the internet, and it is so hard to find the appropriate info when shopping-- does anyone know of a brand and model of turn-button lock (bronze finish) entry door knob that locks and stays locked, even when you turn the knob from the inside?  


thanks
Scott in Arkansas


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## nealtw (Apr 3, 2017)

I think  have a Taymor lock that works like that but I can't find and info on it for model number or anything. I think you have to pull them out of the package and see how they work.


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## nealtw (Apr 3, 2017)

InertiaDriven71 said:


> We currently have old keyed-entry door knobs on 2 main doors of our house...  They are the turn-button style (to lock and unlock from the inside), and they stay locked even when you try to open from the inside-- which I prefer.
> 
> All keys have been needing extra jiggling to get the main door open as of late.  I bought brand new Schlage door knobs at local hardware store.  Just the right finish, and lo and behold, I actually installed the first one myself.  I was very pleased, until....
> 
> ...



Or ask them if they have a model that will do what you need.
http://www.schlage.com/en/home/support/faqs.html.html


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## bud16415 (Apr 4, 2017)

I think what you have is called a &#8220;Quick release&#8221; exterior door knob. The idea is in an emergency panic situation you get out as quickly as possible with just turning the handle. It doesn&#8217;t change your security level it just makes it simpler to operate. You can get other configurations even with a key on both sides if you want. I think all the quick release types cancel the lock when the door is opened. If you want to lock yourself out you would need to turn the thumb knob straight up and down again.  I check mine by looking at it and seeing if the thumb know is up and down.


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## Sparky617 (Apr 4, 2017)

We never use the knob lock on our exterior doors, always the deadbolt.  The front door has a thumb latch that can't be locked so the deadbolt is the only way to lock it.  Once I saw an old next door neighbor of mine open his front door with a credit card faster than I could open it with a key I decided that the knob locks are kind of useless and deadbolts are the only way to slow a thief down.  If someone really wants to get in a door lock isn't going to stop them, though a reinforced deadbolt will probably have them looking to jimmy a window instead.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 4, 2017)

"I found that the door knob turns/opens from the inside, even when locked-- which I do not like. I like to check the doors each night before heading to bed by attempting to turn the knob and pulling on the door to ensure that the door is indeed locked. Plus, although I am not sure, the knob may stay locked, even though you open the door from the inside (which is asking for a lockout with 2 kids in my opinion)"

You may have an easily correctable installation error.

This from the Schlage site; http://www.schlage.com/en/home/faq.html?thumbpress-on-handleset-is-hard-depress


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## joecaption (Apr 4, 2017)

It's that way so if there's a fire someone can still get out.


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## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 4, 2017)

Both doors have glass (9-panes in top half), a dead bolt does no good.  If we are not home, intruders can just break the glass and open it.  Keep in mind, this is a preference issue, not so much reassessing the security setup of my house.   

On knob design, I understand the design of a quick exit, however if you cannot think to turn the lock button to get out (less than 1 second), perhaps the problem isn't the fire.   I.e.-- questionable design IMO.   

The guy at the store where I bought it monkeyed around with it as well, and concluded that this is the design, and likely stuck with it.

I will look at the Schlage links you guys provided, thanks.  I will say that the instructions provided were near worthless, however it was intuitive to install on my own (or so it seemed.


thanks for what has been provided so far


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## nealtw (Apr 4, 2017)

InertiaDriven71 said:


> Both doors have glass (9-panes in top half), a dead bolt does no good.  If we are not home, intruders can just break the glass and open it.  Keep in mind, this is a preference issue, not so much reassessing the security setup of my house.
> 
> On knob design, I understand the design of a quick exit, however if you cannot think to turn the lock button to get out (less than 1 second), perhaps the problem isn't the fire.   I.e.-- questionable design IMO.
> 
> ...



I see in this one they tell you lock type, some are push button and some are turn.
https://www.lowes.ca/door-knobs/gat...k-residential-privacy-door-knob_g1447504.html


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## Snoonyb (Apr 4, 2017)

InertiaDriven71 said:


> Both doors have glass (9-panes in top half), a dead bolt does no good.  If we are not home, intruders can just break the glass and open it.  Keep in mind, this is a preference issue, not so much reassessing the security setup of my house.



This is the classic example where a dbl. cyl. dead bolt is intended for, however it requires that everyone in the dwelling is aware of the keys location, and that it is accessible.

The quick release is generally reserved for interior locks sets such as bathrooms, and commercial applications.


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## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 4, 2017)

Disregard questions and initial post.   Thanks all for the help


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## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 4, 2017)

This really explains it.  

http://garyclarke.us/everyman/warning-schlage-f-series-door-knobs/


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## Sparky617 (Apr 5, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> This is the classic example where a dbl. cyl. dead bolt is intended for, however it requires that everyone in the dwelling is aware of the keys location, and that it is accessible.
> 
> The quick release is generally reserved for interior locks sets such as bathrooms, and commercial applications.



OP has moved on, but I figured I'd add this thought as posts aren't just for the OP.

I keep a key in the two double deadbolts at our house.  We live in a very low-crime area so I'm not really concerned about a break-in.  I'd be more concerned about getting out quickly in the unlikely event of a fire.  Or in the case of my basement door not having a key with me when I want to go out that door.  Most thieves want to get in and get out as quickly and quietly as possible, breaking tempered safety glass isn't quick or quiet.  A surprisingly high percentage of break-ins are actually turning the knob and walk-ins.  People not locking their doors.


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## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 5, 2017)

As previously mentioned, I have no deadbolts.  Here is my setup:
--lockable glass storm door on outside
--wooden door with 9-pane glass on top
--door chain (eye level)
--turn-button lock traditional entry door knob (just a regular-type knob)
--"door guard" like you see at hotels (near bottom of door)

Live in the sticks, off the highway.   I am home most of the year (work from home), armed to the teeth family of 4.   I understand fires can indeed happen.  My point of this is that the doors are the type that "if they want to break in, they will", only by the time they figure it all out we will be ready if they do get in.  Although we are also in a 'low-moderate' theft area.   Thus, I have no desire to put extra money into 3 entire new solid-door setups (no glass) with deadbolts and "any old door knob will do" like these screwy things.   We have always used the entry knobs as the main lock, and the only lock that keeps the door from opening.  I am not sure if that helps with my issue, but thought I would better explain what we have

At night, I close the main door, secure the chain, swivel-close the door guard (google it to see what they look like if you still don't know what I am talking about), and turn the button-lock on the doorknob to up-and-down on the knob to lock.  I then twist the knob to make sure it is indeed locked and pull on the door to make sure it is indeed closed.  This is my preference to make me sleep better at night.   This was with the old doorknobs.

Yesterday, I spent 30 minutes in the hardware store visiting with a guy about it.  Today, I talked to Schlage on the phone for 20 minutes, and I hit a point to where I just got fatigued, and just installed the dang door knobs.  But here is what we have now:

1)  a knob that unlocks when I twist it from the inside because some Einstein thought it was a good design to save literally less than a second to turn the lock before you open the door.  This was either a marketing ploy, and/or I surmise that there was likely a cost-cutting tactic, and they are pushing the "feature" under the guise of protection "in case there is a fire".   It would have been more believable to say they did it for someone with an injured arm, or carrying a gun or phone.  Either way, multiple people (store, Schlage, and here) have said that "they did it because of a possible fire and you get out faster".... when this is not accurate at all--it takes almost no extra time to open the old style doorknob with 2 hands.   Or even with one hand, takes 1 second.   (please no one say "every second counts in a fire", I can feel it coming)       

2)  a knob whose turn-button is backwards from the last one (and all of the others I grew up with)-- with this new doorknob, the button pointing up and down=unlocked, and sideways=LOCKED.   I still think something may have been wrong here...  Even the guy at the store said the directions were worthless.   If there was a solution to this issue via installation, it was certainly not intuitive either.

I had to walk my family through how these backwards knobs work, as there was apparently no hope for finding doorknobs that have the right finish AND have the correct design.  We will just get used to them and hopefully we won't get locked out and I will simply go off a visual cue as to whether the knob is indeed locked every night.  I.e., "the only thing in life that is constant is CHANGE"... We will just get used to them. 

On a positive note, the knobs look very nice, match the other hardware on the door, and are of a high security rating.   The key is a bit rough going in and out, but I assume it will smooth out some over time with wear.  

Perhaps other members can learn from my experience if they perform a search on a similar topic.   Thanks again


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

Ours self unlock like yours but are up and down when locked. I don&#8217;t have any issue with them unlocking and opening at the same time when you said they didn&#8217;t unlock and you could lock yourself out I didn&#8217;t care for that. The only thing you cant do is try the door to see if it is locked. That&#8217;s mostly a habit you will soon change. 

As to the fire thing I&#8217;m mostly with you I could see where a mother with a kid in each arm it might be quicker. For me it would be more like I got the garbage bag in one hand and a bucket full tools in the other and I&#8217;m trying to get the door unlocked.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

I agree with your complaint about the handle or knob pointing the wrong way, when did they change that? And why.

Just to be clear, the door is locked, you can exit and the door stays locked when it closes behind you.

So when a toddler yours or a guest gets up a night and wonders out the door by mistake, he can just freeze on the porch??


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Ours self unlock like yours but are up and down when locked. I dont have any issue with them unlocking and opening at the same time when you said they didnt unlock and you could lock yourself out I didnt care for that. The only thing you cant do is try the door to see if it is locked. Thats mostly a habit you will soon change.
> 
> As to the fire thing Im mostly with you I could see where a mother with a kid in each arm it might be quicker. For me it would be more like I got the garbage bag in one hand and a bucket full tools in the other and Im trying to get the door unlocked.



I think the fire safety idea is crap, every dead bolt has to be unlocked.


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## bud16415 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> I think the fire safety idea is crap, every dead bolt has to be unlocked.



Why do you think they call them dead bolt?


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## InertiaDriven71 (Apr 5, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Just to be clear, the door is locked, you can exit and the door stays locked when it closes behind you.
> 
> So when a toddler yours or a guest gets up a night and wonders out the door by mistake, he can just freeze on the porch??



Actually no (to my relief), when you unlock the door with the turn of the knob, it stays unlocked.  The Schlage rep said that in 2011 they made the new design where turning the knob unlocks the door but it STAYED LOCKED.  The result was repeated lockouts and subsequent complaints.   It was 2014 models where they kept the "turn knob to unlock" feature, but fixed it to where the knob stay unlocked afterwards.   

It is during times like this where I ask "what do companies think when they make changes like this?"   I really do believe that there is such a thing as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".   It seems that companies get overly creative and try to "improve" a product (likely from the marketing people), when really the unintended consequence results in a lesser product, or in this case having to change habits (less convenience).  One recent example is my 2016 F150 with a lockable tailgate.   For an outdoorsman with 40 acres, this is the worst feature forced on truck owners in years.  OK, my soapbox diatribe is complete, thanks for listening


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2017)

InertiaDriven71 said:


> Actually no (to my relief), when you unlock the door with the turn of the knob, it stays unlocked.  The Schlage rep said that in 2011 they made the new design where turning the knob unlocks the door but it STAYED LOCKED.  The result was repeated lockouts and subsequent complaints.   It was 2014 models where they kept the "turn knob to unlock" feature, but fixed it to where the knob stay unlocked afterwards.
> 
> It is during times like this where I ask "what do companies think when they make changes like this?"   I really do believe that there is such a thing as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".   It seems that companies get overly creative and try to "improve" a product (likely from the marketing people), when really the unintended consequence results in a lesser product, or in this case having to change habits (less convenience).  One recent example is my 2016 F150 with a lockable tailgate.   For an outdoorsman with 40 acres, this is the worst feature forced on truck owners in years.  OK, my soapbox diatribe is complete, thanks for listening



I thought door knobs worked pretty good 50 years ago.:thbup:
Crooks won't climb over a tailgate.:rofl:


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## slownsteady (Apr 6, 2017)

> a knob that unlocks when I twist it from the inside because some Einstein thought it was a good design to save literally less than a second to turn the lock before you open the door. This was either a marketing ploy, and/or I surmise that there was likely a cost-cutting tactic, and they are pushing the "feature" under the guise of protection "in case there is a fire". It would have been more believable to say they did it for someone with an injured arm, or carrying a gun or phone.



I'll bet it has more to do with legal liability than marketing. It's a sure bet that someone who experienced a loss will be contacted by a lawyer who want to bring suit against the lock company for preventing a quick escape.


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> I'll bet it has more to do with legal liability than marketing. It's a sure bet that someone who experienced a loss will be contacted by a lawyer who want to bring suit against the lock company for preventing a quick escape.



Nah, it's about making locks that work with a key pad or remote.


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## Sparky617 (Apr 6, 2017)

Schlage locks have worked where the knob turns with the door locked for decades.  My 18 year old Schlage locks do this on my current house.  Qwikset Locks operate where you have to turn the lock mechanism first to turn the knob.  

With the older pushbutton Schlage locks the button would pop out when you turned the knob.


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## Mastercarpenty (Apr 16, 2017)

All push-button knobs release when turned (do they even make those anymore? ain't seen none in years) and some thumb-turn knobs do too. Those which do not release automatically are still made- most cheap locks are like that. This type may not meet egress code in commercial or office use but they are fine in residential homes.

You can't 'credit card' a properly set entry knob. The little piece beside the main plunger is an anti-jimmy device and is not supposed to enter the strike hole with the main plunger when the door closes. If the little piece is held in, once the main plunger extends it cannot be pushed back manually- only turning the knob can then move the plunger. It takes a bit more precise work to get there but you won't credit-card the locks I install, promise 

Someone earlier mentioned 2-keyed deadbolts. Most fire codes no longer allow those anywhere at an egress door since they key could be elsewhere when you need to get out fast. That presents a security issue sometimes so what I do for those (installed after final inspection and move-in) is to tie a string to the key which is just under half the distance to the floor from the lock, then thumbtack the string to the side of the casing where it can't be seen from the outside but can be quickly found in an emergency by feel and can't get lost due to the string and thumbtack, but can quickly be used by feel alone. Still not to the letter of the code but it solves the security problem and meets the intent of the code well enough. 

Phil


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## Sparky617 (Apr 17, 2017)

Mastercarpenty said:


> All push-button knobs release when turned
> 
> You can't 'credit card' a properly set entry knob. The little piece beside the main plunger is an anti-jimmy device and is not supposed to enter the strike hole with the main plunger when the door closes. If the little piece is held in, once the main plunger extends it cannot be pushed back manually- only turning the knob can then move the plunger. It takes a bit more precise work to get there but you won't credit-card the locks I install, promise
> 
> Phil



IF the strike plate opening is small enough to keep the locking plunger depressed when the door is locked it will prevent the latch from being depressed.  I just tested my backdoor and I was able to credit card open it despite the extra plunger on the lock.  If you're depending on the door knob latch to keep your door locked from intruders you're engaging in a lot of wishful thinking.  Even a deadbolt won't stop a determined intruder as most door frames will give way to a large person kicking the door.  A deadbolt with an alarm system sign/sticker whether you have an alarm or not is probably a stronger deterrent.  Thieves want to get in and get out as quietly as possible.  The threat of setting off an alarm system will deter many.


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## Mastercarpenty (Apr 18, 2017)

The strike openings I've seen are all large enough to accommodate both plungers which is why strike adjustment gets tricky. Use a flashlight and look closely at your rear door and you'll find either the small plunger piece enters the hole or the gap is so wide that the little piece isn't being depressed far enough to function. Try it with the door open- depress the small plunger then try to push the large plunger back- it shouldn't go.

The newer door-frames with push-in weatherstripping are tough to get the strike adjusted correctly because slamming the door or using extra force in closing it will allow the small piece to enter the strike hole, which defeats it's function. That also misaligns the deadbolt strike setting causing it to not work. The weatherstripping also deforms and 'takes a set' over time requiring another strike adjustment session to compensate. Hard to get those buggers done right.

Door security is important but any thief with more than half their wits about them will find another way in if they can't get through the door easily enough. Most of the builder-grade entry does are wimpy nowadays so there's only so far it's worth going to secure them. And even the best door is only as strong as the frame/strike set-up which must be solidly shimmed and screwed through to the framing. Even then it's not that tough to get through quickly if you have the right tools.

Phil


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## Sparky617 (Apr 18, 2017)

> Door security is important but any thief with more than half their wits about them will find another way in if they can't get through the door easily enough. Most of the builder-grade entry does are wimpy nowadays so there's only so far it's worth going to secure them. And even the best door is only as strong as the frame/strike set-up which must be solidly shimmed and screwed through to the framing. Even then it's not that tough to get through quickly if you have the right tools.



This is why I use the deadbolt and don't worry about the door knob lock.  Yes, if I hold the extra tab in the lock won't depress.


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## dmiller236 (Apr 19, 2017)

:agree:





bud16415 said:


> I think what you have is called a Quick release exterior door knob. The idea is in an emergency panic situation you get out as quickly as possible with just turning the handle. It doesnt change your security level it just makes it simpler to operate. You can get other configurations even with a key on both sides if you want. I think all the quick release types cancel the lock when the door is opened. If you want to lock yourself out you would need to turn the thumb knob straight up and down again.  I check mine by looking at it and seeing if the thumb know is up and down.



If this is so then Chamberlain 7702CB Quick Release Lock is a good one.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 19, 2017)

dmiller236 said:


> :agree:
> 
> If this is so then Chamberlain 7702CB Quick Release Lock is a good one.



If you are using garage door openers for your entry doors;https://www.chamberlain.com/garage-tools/safety-and-convenience/quick-release-key

And the product is no longer available.


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