# Opening up my kitchen, partially removing wall



## maxdad118 (Aug 12, 2017)

We are wanting to remove some of our kitchen wall to create a more open feel with some bar stool seating and storage cabinets. Pretty sure it's load bearing and have a friend coming by to verify. It will only be about 5 ft of wall removal so my question is this- do I or should I absolutely need to get an engineer involved? It would not be flush installation but drop down the same as the entry way, trying to keep it simple but structurally sound. It would be from the left edge of the range to the opening of entryway. That is a mirror on the wall, not a pass thru opening&#55357;&#56835;


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## Snoonyb (Aug 12, 2017)

If your CJ splice over this wall and/or if there are any roof braces that land on this wall, it's a bearing wall.

From the left side of the range to a framed structural post, between the new opening and the existing.


You should be able to permit this without having to have an eng. involved and the support for the ceilings is quite routine and simple.

How are you going to address the venting of the range?


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## maxdad118 (Aug 12, 2017)

We inherited the house this way and plan on a hood when we remodel the kitchen, too many fish to fry with this 1950's house.


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## maxdad118 (Aug 12, 2017)

CJ splice? Center Joint?&#55357;&#56900;


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## Snoonyb (Aug 12, 2017)

The CJ may or may not be continuous over the wall. If they are continuous, depending upon their dimension, they may be within span standards. as I recall from previous threds, they are 2X6, which have an allowable span of 15'6". If their length to the next bearing point exceeds that, you'll need the 4X6 DF header.

If they are not continuous and splice over this wall, you'll need the same header.

You'll likely find that there is not a stud at the exact point to the left of the range you desire, requiring you to open the wall to the next stud in order to install the trimmer under the header.

Here on the truly left coast you are required to vent gas fired cooking appliances.


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## maxdad118 (Aug 12, 2017)

I'm not hip to the talk...does CJ=center joint and what is DF??


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## maxdad118 (Aug 12, 2017)

I'm aware of the venting of gas appliances..it will be tackled when the remodel happens.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 12, 2017)

maxdad118 said:


> I'm not hip to the talk...does CJ=center joint and what is DF??



CJ is an abbreviation for Ceiling Joists, and DF is for Douglas Fir, the lumber the house is assembled from.

They may take exception to the "eventually" part of the remodel where the venting is concerned.


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## slownsteady (Aug 14, 2017)

Before you stumble upon it, have you considered the kitchen cabinets that will be lost?


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## maxdad118 (Aug 14, 2017)

Yes, actually the 2 above are empty currently and really not functional. My wife can't reach anything except the lower shelf on the one above the range which was spices and such. All that got moved to a rack in our pantry. The one to the right of it is useless! It has a basket on the open shelf which was packed with cooking oils and stuff. Most got moved to the pantry. We plan on a more user friendly and versatil cabinet setup with floor to ceiling unit left of range and better use of space in cabinets to the right of range. I'm hoping we can get a hood unit that won't look to funky mounted to the drop down beam section once we open it up?


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## nealtw (Aug 14, 2017)

Opening a 5 ft opening isn't usually a problem Unless you find a double stud in there which might indicate a point load. Most time a double 63" 2x10 header would do. for insurance you could go double LVLs
If you intend to make the door bigger by 5 ft, that would more serious.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 13, 2018)

Well, we are finally into it and decided to pay a little for a design layout. We hired a contractor to do the work and I&#8217;m glad we did. Aside from some limitations and inconveniences it will be worth it!


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## maxdad118 (Jan 13, 2018)

Heres day 1&2


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2018)

What the heck was that framing of the giant X all about? 

Looks like you are making progress.


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 13, 2018)

bud16415 said:


> What the heck was that framing of the giant X all about?
> 
> Looks like you are making progress.


X marks the spot silly....that's the spot...[emoji735]


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

bud16415 said:


> What the heck was that framing of the giant X all about?
> 
> Looks like you are making progress.



The old form of dia. bracing.

Probably a carryover from ballon framing.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 13, 2018)

I&#8217;m assuming it had something to do with the load bearing? Our exterior wall was the same way. Built in late 1940&#8217;s, early 1950. I&#8217;m no carpenter


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> Heres day 1&2



Clean. What's the header size, and is it Select DF or a glue-lam?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> Im assuming it had something to do with the load bearing? Our exterior wall was the same way. Built in late 1940s, early 1950. Im no carpenter



A predominance of framing carpenters, of the era, were east coast and midwest transplants, and for that matter, most of the building trades.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 14, 2018)

Not sure what the beam is? Doesn&#8217;t look laminated but 1 solid beam? Will there be evidence of it being laminated? When I hear that term I think of 2 or more pieces and seams?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 14, 2018)

They are generally stacked and pressure glued dimensional lumber, and can withstand a lot more stress than dimensional lumber.

I was more curious to see if and how things have/had changed/evolved to meet earthquake standards, because even in the same counties, measures can vary.

The beam is typical of CA, and exactly what I've done in the past.

Does the permit continue through the kitchen remodel?


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> Not sure what the beam is? Doesn&#8217;t look laminated but 1 solid beam? Will there be evidence of it being laminated? When I hear that term I think of 2 or more pieces and seams?


 You are thinking about LVLs but beams come in all kinds of material like micro lams come in all one pieces sizes just like gluelam beams.

Glue lams are 2x?? stacked and glued really popular in the 60s

micro lam are made out of slivers left over from the plywood industry. 

I seem to be having problems with pictures but google them.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 15, 2018)

Well, my contractor said these don&#8217;t need straps where they end. They have joist hangers throughout and are screwed to the post at the ends. My father in law, who is a retired carpenter, and general, said they should have &#8216;end cap support straps&#8217;?? The contractor insists these are for exterior corners and walls? Now I&#8217;m confused. He&#8217;s done a lot of these and even called somebody and they also confirmed it doesn&#8217;t need them


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> Well, my contractor said these dont need straps where they end. They have joist hangers throughout and are screwed to the post at the ends. My father in law, who is a retired carpenter, and general, said they should have end cap support straps?? The contractor insists these are for exterior corners and walls? Now Im confused. Hes done a lot of these and even called somebody and they also confirmed it doesnt need them


Seldom called for on the interior but have seen some goofy things done for seismic needs. 
If it is getting inspected, don't worry about it.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 15, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> Well, my contractor said these dont need straps where they end. They have joist hangers throughout and are screwed to the post at the ends. My father in law, who is a retired carpenter, and general, said they should have end cap support straps?? The contractor insists these are for exterior corners and walls? Now Im confused. Hes done a lot of these and even called somebody and they also confirmed it doesnt need them



You're contractor is correct.

I've only strapped flush headers when they occur in the middle of an wall length, as a continuation of the shear that wall inherently functions as, or if there is a short length over the load bearing point.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 16, 2018)

I feel a bit better now, not sure how to tell my father in law(as I&#8217;m no contractor) but I value all of your input and trust it. I trust my father in law as well and I know he&#8217;s just looking out for us. I trust the contractor as well! &#55357;&#56835; I&#8217;m not going to lose sleep over it. I just want it done correct.


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## nealtw (Jan 16, 2018)

maxdad118 said:


> I feel a bit better now, not sure how to tell my father in law(as Im no contractor) but I value all of your input and trust it. I trust my father in law as well and I know hes just looking out for us. I trust the contractor as well! &#55357;&#56835; Im not going to lose sleep over it. I just want it done correct.


 It is always better to ask, a good contractor wants to get it right, inspectors are looking for mistakes and sometimes that goes the other way.
We had one where the engineer forgot to call for a beam and we just put the biggest one that would fit in the space.  When he did his inspection he said I didn't think the beam was big enough. When he checked the engineered plans he came back and he looked it ever and could see nothing bigger would fit. He just walked away and looked at other stuff.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 16, 2018)

There is a logic that follows the east and midwest transplants where sidings are the norm and the variety of end caps followed thru the species of wood which best fit the environment, as well as the grade of lumber some of the 3 and 4 part headers were composed of.

Stucco, dimensional headers and piece work became an eventuality.

The west coast was in and of itself, it's own "melting pot" in the transition of sidings, lap, clapboard, asbestos and stucco, to name a few.


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## slownsteady (Jan 18, 2018)

bud16415 said:


> What the heck was that framing of the giant X all about?
> 
> Looks like you are making progress.


earthquake country.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 20, 2018)

Moving right along, contractors spent the day prepping the walls, texturing and I had to relocate the gas line running to the attic space for the furnace. Nice to have the heat back! Filter was BAD after running it with all the dust. ACE had a &#8216;buy 2, get 1 free&#8217; deal so I anticipate replacing it again when it&#8217;s all finished. Cabinets are arriving today too!&#55357;&#56397;


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## Snoonyb (Jan 20, 2018)

So, how are you planning to vent your food preparation appliance, or did you switch to electric?


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## maxdad118 (Jan 20, 2018)

Pardon the mess  the table is not where it will be. The range will be about 3-4&#8217; from the corner behind that China cabinet. It will have a microwave vent above and to the outside.


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## maxdad118 (Jan 20, 2018)

Here&#8217;s a look from my living room to the front door


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## maxdad118 (Jan 20, 2018)

I will never do an electric range, cooking with gas!&#55357;&#56397;


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## Snoonyb (Jan 20, 2018)

So, how are you planning on venting it?


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## ClaireWoods (Jan 30, 2018)

You should really look for professional help about venting the kitchen. I recommend xxx for that. They're professional contractors who had help me with remodeling my whole kitchen. They do some of the most amazing work I've ever seen!


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## nealtw (Jan 30, 2018)

ClaireWoods said:


> You should really look for professional help about venting the kitchen. I recommend xxx for that. They're professional contractors who had help me with remodeling my whole kitchen. They do some of the most amazing work I've ever seen!


This is a site for people who want to do the work themselves.


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## bud16415 (Jan 30, 2018)

nealtw said:


> This is a site for people who want to do the work themselves.



Yep they do their work and then take the money they make and give it to XXX and then they do the work for them. It is called cutting in the middle man. New type of DIY.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 30, 2018)

Their toll free # goes directly to an answering service, so they are hiding under their desk.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 30, 2018)

They are lic. in Van Nuys Ca. which is a long way south of the OP.

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/onlineservices/CheckLicenseII/LicenseDetail.aspx?LicNum=985124


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## bud16415 (Jan 30, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> They are lic. in Van Nuys Ca. which is a long way south of the OP.
> 
> https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/onlineservices/CheckLicenseII/LicenseDetail.aspx?LicNum=985124



Sounds kind of spamish to me for a first post.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 30, 2018)

Agreed, because you need to search the Lic. # to find them.

Could be an employee.


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## maxdad118 (Feb 7, 2018)

Here&#8217;s the progress on our kitchen, we should be cooking again tonight. My wife wanted this copper sink and had to order the matching drain and it won&#8217;t be here until Friday so no running water yet(off at angle stops)...


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## tuffy (Feb 9, 2018)

Looks really nice so far


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## maxdad118 (Feb 11, 2018)

So the copper drain piece finally showed up and my contractor came by and installed the disposal and air gap and disposal switch. We now have a fully functioning kitchen again. Here&#8217;s a few pictures of the floor that we need to patch. We got 1 estimate so far and it was like $5300!!! I know it&#8217;s not going to be quick and easy but we got the whole floor done for $4500? Does that seem outrageous? We do, however, want to sand and stain it a bit darker and the quote reflected it. Also add hardwood down the small hallway.


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## nealtw (Feb 12, 2018)

If you want the flooring fixed where that straight line disappears, it is very time consuming. You want to find the guy that is really good at that, faster. And it might be a different contractor to refinish.


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## maxdad118 (Apr 3, 2018)

Floors are all repaired, contractor came back and installed new baseboard and pendant lights over the island. We went darker on the finish for the floors, antique walnut I think.


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## tuffy (Apr 3, 2018)

Very nice looking .I really like the sink ,floors, and pendant lights.oh hell I just love the whole damn thing


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## slownsteady (Apr 12, 2018)

Looks really good! Congrats. What kind of floor did you put in? Hardwood? Vinyl? Pergo?


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## maxdad118 (Apr 12, 2018)

Thank you! What a difference in storage that we needed! We still have empty cabinets haha. Hardwood, I believe red oak?


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