# help w/ finer points on using router starting pin



## rokosz (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi all.  Hope your wood's holding up.  I'd like to ask some for your opinions and any ideas re the following.

I'm preparing, not sure if its the correct term, shoemolding for baseboard.  These pieces have a different profile than traditional (see diagram not to scale): 






The bulk of the lengths are done, here's a pic of two pieces, one ripped and one not ripped yet:





This next shot is the thing that's going to challenge me unmercifully and I'd like your help on how to accomplish it.  I need to put that routed profile on that curve (you can see, on this scrap, that the profile is already cut on the right side):






That curve will be mirrored on the other end  so that the baseboard heater can sit on it like so:





I've puzzled over this and came to some conclusions:
1) This will not feed along a fence (yeah, I know. But I gotta start small...)
2) I'll have to use that little nipple thing that screws into the router table after removing the fence.
3) Watch a few vids of folks demonstrating said nipple use.
4) Be really careful to not lose any fingers.

I took a jig saw to create that curve (I couldn't see using the router to cut away all the excess).  that curved edge will ride against the router bearing.

practice, practice, practice on scraps.  I haven't tried it yet but feel like I'm missing something that could help me control the feeding.  It was hard enough to feed long lengths in straight along the fence with it wanting to try to come off alignment. Can't imagine the hassles doing it "freehand".  The bearing is supposed to help with that "pressure" required to keep the feed going evenly.
The vids I saw talk about using the starting pin as point of first contact and then (gradually?) transferring that contact to the bit bearing.

Any of this correct? No? Where'd I go wrong? What do you suggest?  

Do you think I should use a longer piece so that there is 3-4-5 inches of straight 1 1/4" wide work and that will allow easing into the curve -- rather than bam! start the curve as soon as the wood touches the bit.?

Finally the simpler question (and effort) regarding attching the simple straight pieces to the studs (since there is no baseboard behind the molding). 

What length?  I've got a brad nailer (max is maybe 1 1/2") and assume at this point it can't hold long enough fastenters.  I've been challenged before with using the right length of nail when toenailing 2x4s....
What type o' fastener here and how long to grab the stud? 

And, fasten where?  Parallel to the floor (ie through the "arch" of the molding) or angle the fastener down through the top of the molding into the stud?

I wish I could feel comfortably confident (by looking backwards at what's been done) -- but I keep looking forward and beginning all over again...
thanks for any help


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## nealtw (Mar 15, 2016)

My brad nailers go up to 2" and that is what I would use throw the top part.

The pin you are talking about is just a starter pin. The reason you need it is if you start right at the end of the board and start just a fraction to soon the bit will grab the end of the board and spin it to the right.
The operator seldom feels any pain accept for looking at the piece of wood.
So when you start and you don't want the front end of your wood to swing to the right, have a firm grip so that your end of the board doesn't swing to the left.

The more wood being removed the scarier it get's so lower your bit and do this in three passes.
By time you get to the third pass you will be comfortable with the process.


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## nealtw (Mar 15, 2016)

If that is your starter pin in the photo, change that out for a bolt or something that is 2 or 3 inches high.


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## mako1 (Mar 16, 2016)

I would just clamp the piece to the bench and route it handheld.That way you don't have to start at the small end.


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## rokosz (Mar 16, 2016)

thanks folks.  I'd forgotten the rule of multiple passes given my focus on  "how" to.   

In between the NealTW and Mako1 replies I'd been searching vids of "curves on routers" and was reminded/introduced to templates. and that kind of dovetails with Mako1's idea of free-handing.  

Is this a case of "yes, you can do it either way -- what's your preference?"   maybe I'm overthinking it and just gotta get my hands dusty.

I'll let you know how it goes.

A curiosity aside (esp re: multiple passes) here's a link to a vid I found (cued up at about the appropriate spot). The guy is cutting a circle.  the raw wood "spins" freely over the bit, and then he cuts in one pass.  How did the bit know to "rise" up through the wood?
https://youtu.be/hwKOTSBqrMU?t=174


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## nealtw (Mar 16, 2016)

mako1 said:


> I would just clamp the piece to the bench and route it handheld.That way you don't have to start at the small end.



You haven't used a table router much have you?


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## nealtw (Mar 16, 2016)

In the video he has some set up where or some one else is adjusting the height. Likely a plunge router with something rigged to it.
He could do in one pass if he was using an up twist spiral bit, but you either have to drop the board on live or adjust height live.

I would start with scrap wood and smaller bit and learn how to use it.


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## nealtw (Mar 16, 2016)

If you are routering the end grain remember that it has a good change of splintering the wood at the end, so you want to have another piece of wood behind it. If you are doing it in three cuts do all three cuts on the end grain before you do the long side.


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## rokosz (Mar 16, 2016)

re: the end grain splinter:  I'll keep that in mind for the upcoming -- with the simple straights pieces I'm going to trim them to length.  oops just realized what you're saying -- I'm not going perpendicular to the grain -- but that curve will be crossing the grain at an angle.  aacch, my last practice will be on an actual piece (probably the other end of that scrap in the pictures.)  tx


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## mako1 (Mar 17, 2016)

nealtw said:


> You haven't used a table router much have you?


 Just for 50 years.15 of which I owned a custom furniture and cabinet shop.By using the router hand held he can make a climb cut which will give him less chance of catching the sharp edge.


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2016)

mako1 said:


> Just for 50 years.15 of which I owned a custom furniture and cabinet shop.By using the router hand held he can make a climb cut which will give him less chance of catching the sharp edge.



Not sure what you mean by climb cut.
In my shop the router table was a full day every day, the hand held was for special stuff that wouldn't work on the table. I always figure clamping and re clamping things to a table for hand held was more of a pain and then the dust collector worked good on the table too.


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## rokosz (Mar 17, 2016)

Before settling on a table I'd tried clamping the straight pieces down -- but with the clamps in the way I had _sweep_ the router in on one end and out on the other, and then chop.  The results weren't pretty, but now I realize that may have been mostly due to lack of experience. And who likes chop waste?

me too: what's a climb cut?  I'll probably look forward to that in Routing III.


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## mako1 (Mar 17, 2016)

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/climb-cutting-don’t-believe-the-naysayers.aspx


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2016)

mako1 said:


> Yup, I know that one, it is still easier to see the wheel on the table.


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## rokosz (Apr 2, 2016)

Hi all, 



So i've practice abit with the starter pin and feeding trying to feel comfortable with cutting this curve.



I like the jigsaw idea of pre-cutting, that worked well.

My problem is here:






the bearing is above the board so the board has nothign to stop it flaying itself on the bit.

which leads to destruction:






And I'm UNable to complete the cuts:






how to adjust the bit?  the wood?  do i cut/jig another piece as a guiding block? but how to aatach to piece w/o damaging?


btw, Nealtw now I fully understand your admonition to swap out the stock starter pin for a 3" screw. "why is that?...Ohhhh...ah hah."

thanks all.


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## nealtw (Apr 3, 2016)

Attach a pattern to the back side, You might get away with a real good double sided tape, But that can be scary. It is the back side I would just use screws.
I was happy to see the bolt in your picture.


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## slownsteady (Apr 3, 2016)

You need a different size bit.


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## nealtw (Apr 4, 2016)

Beginners mistake, you always want to limit the height so the wheel has something to run to.
All bits are not equal some have the wheel much closer to the cutting edge.


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2016)

Or you might make the pattern into a box the fits over the wood so you could clamp the box to hold it tight to the side of the wood.


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## rokosz (Apr 26, 2016)

Did it! not perfect but -- and I 'm not sure why, but once its on the floor its not going to be obvious

I cut a template with a skil jigsaw.  and took the excess from the target piece with the jig saw too.  Piloted two holes and drove drywall screws just fart enough in to hold the temp to the practice piece.






took about 5 passes to bring it the bit all the way up






and the complete cut piece:






The imperfection(s) are flat spots on the floor side of the inside curve (its  more obvious in the 3rd shot above).  I noticed it while doing the passes -- and thought it was the blade (or my hands) doing something strange.  I re-did the passes to no avail.
Looking at these pictures, literally just now, I think I figured out that I took  too much excess off the target piece-- and came inside the line with the jig saw.  right?   little too anal on trying to be precise when it probably would've been just fine to leave the target a piece a couple of mm fat.  

Still it was damn satisfying to have it done and to not:  split it with the screws, burn it, rip out the endgrain, or lose any more blood.  (took 5 stitches in my thumb when I was ripping the target piece (touch too much drift when I brought my left hand back past the blade))  New rule! hands never pass the blade pushing or pulling (esp. on skinnier rips).


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## nealtw (Apr 26, 2016)

Well done looks great.:beer:


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## slownsteady (Apr 29, 2016)

just paint it red; nobody will notice the blood.......:beer:

Nice job, really.


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## rokosz (Jun 12, 2016)

Anybody care to see the final install?






What do ya'll use for scribing?  My cheap-axx compass can't bring point and pencil close enough for the gap i need to ablate. I've seen homemades and things that _might've worked...


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2016)

..............


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## slownsteady (Jun 15, 2016)

Nice touch to an otherwise ordinary baseboard heater. It adds a little class.


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