# Deck Question



## RockyMtnBlue (Feb 26, 2012)

Do I need to use mending plates?


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## RockyMtnBlue (Feb 26, 2012)

I will attach the two beams with two 1/2 bolts (a total of 4 bolts).  Do I also need mending plates?


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## nealtw (Feb 26, 2012)

No the bolts are plenty.


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## siriuschaos (Feb 27, 2012)

Maybe a little construction adhesive if you have an open tube, on the ends of of the 2ply beams where they will meet. Will help keep the entire joint water tight. A few screws with the glue will eliminate the need for bolts


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## RockyMtnBlue (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks... No mending plates and construction adhesive.


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## inspectorD (Feb 29, 2012)

siriuschaos said:


> Maybe a little construction adhesive if you have an open tube, on the ends of of the 2ply beams where they will meet. Will help keep the entire joint water tight. A few screws with the glue will eliminate the need for bolts



Sorry, but I would keep the bolts. Screws have no shear strength and can snap under load. I know it's easier, just no where near as good.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh yes, did not mean to imply that I won't be using bolts.... Bolts and construction adhesive, no mending plates.


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## GBR (Feb 29, 2012)

Bolts will bring you up to minimum Code, as will post bases; http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf  Use some Grace I&W shield on the post bearing area, p.t. wood is not waterproof: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code

You need stand-off post bases for the capillary break they provide. Nails, not screws, for the sistering- as said. Use the I&W on the built-up beams top under the joists above for less water intrusion, or at least a bead of caulk- top only to drain below. Run a bead under the outside edge of the house ledger for a drip edge to stop water from working back to the house. 

Gary


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## BridgeMan (Mar 1, 2012)

Well-spoken, Gary.  And if it were mine, there'd be a sistered PT vertical 2 x 4 on the back of every chopped up support post, extending below the break point.  Just to minimize the damage when the little lady of the household smacks the deck with the garden tractor at full speed.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback ... I'm learning something for every post.  Question about my beams.. I'm attaching (sistering?) two 2x10s.  The book says screws about 24" apart.  From comments here, I gather that I should use construction adhesive and nails.   I read that I should use 3 nails every 16".   Comments?


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 2, 2012)

Ledgers:  ok to bolt ledges directly to concrete?  Should I fill the gap between the concrete and the ledger?   Silicone chalk?


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 2, 2012)

Securing posts to piers:

I plan to use concrete expansion bolts and angle brackets with a single 1/2" bolt.  Comments?





The beams will be secured to the posts with two 1/2 bolts in each beam.


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## nealtw (Mar 2, 2012)

You don't need chaulk or anything between concrete and treated wood and your bolt down is fine.


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## inspectorD (Mar 2, 2012)

Sounds good to me, However there is One last thing I would add. I would seal all cuts I make with a waterproof sealer such as anchorseal. Most of the PT wood is fine, but sometimes the preservative doe s not make it all the way through the new PT. 
Have fun, and post pics when yer done!


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## BridgeMan (Mar 3, 2012)

If it were mine, I wouldn't try to attach the spliced beam ends to the 4 x 4 posts with 4 bolts.  What you're proposing doesn't leave enough "meat" between the edges of holes and ends of members, and actually creates weak points at both the beam ends and the back-side 4 x 4 posts.  Wouldn't be an issue if you had used 6 x 6 posts, as the IRC requires.  A much stronger connection for your situation would be to use 6 through-bolts, 2 longest drilled into the gap between beam ends (with mender plates), and also going through a centered rim scab on the outside; the other 4 shorter ones could then be located farther away from the beam ends, going through them and the outside scab, but not connected to the vertical post.  Posts and beam ends would be much stronger doing it that way, and wouldn't be likely to fail when you load the deck with 15 tons of people.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 3, 2012)

BridgeMan, a 6x6 is possible, but I don't know what a "rim scab" is...


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 3, 2012)

Is this an acceptable alternative?  Or another 4x6 sistered with 1/2" through bolts, since I already have additional 4x6s.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 3, 2012)

Disregard (can't figure out how to delete a post from iPhone app..)


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## GBR (Mar 3, 2012)

Code requires 6x6 *or* have your local inspector pass the 4x4's as they are so short, see the "notes" at the end of this Code Book: http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

Two bolts on each end of beams are required on a bearing post, notice the picture and placement Tables. 

Concrete is a porous material that stores/wicks moisture and water like a sponge. Capillary action will wet the wood if drier than the porch concrete---- pressure treated or not, and soon start rot.The pressure treatment is against bugs and decay rot, not water. As said, treat the p.t. with a water-proof, the whole thing. I would use some Grace I&W shield on the side against the concrete and install it on stand-off washers for water drainage. 

Screws are not acceptable other than on decking unless rated special as Simpson hangers/etc. Nails are called out on the Deck Code link stated. As are bolt placements, spans, piers, stairs, treads, risers, handrails, etc. It would answer any questions you may have though you need to read it first. Nice picture contrast and placement, BTW.

Gary


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 3, 2012)

Gary and other, thanks for the feedback.  My first project this big.    I used the online deck planner from Lowes and I guess I expected more from the city  permit process when I turned in my plans.   After getting city "approval", I discovered the AFPA doc you have referenced and have adopted many of those standards... With a few exceptions.  Up until now, I've been thinking that since the city accepted my plans and all the decks I see built all around my area within the last year or two are 4x4 posts and 2x6 framing  that my plan met their standards and the AFPA was a stricter standard.   Thus, I have been thinking that my post size 4x6 is better than what my plan calls for (4x4) and what I see on decks just built on new houses.  

Now, I'm thinking that I better check with the inspector before going any further.   I'll be doing that Monday.

Roger


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## BridgeMan (Mar 3, 2012)

A rim scab in your case is a sistered 2 x 10, about 3' long (minimum), centered and installed on the outside of the existing 2 x 10 beam ends.  Using the 6 (2 different length) through-bolts that I suggested earlier.  I started using rim scabs after observing way too many splintered beam ends and/or posts, caused by inadequate hole clearances to member ends/edges.  Many deck builders overhang their decking planks anyway, making the ends flush with a partial-depth trim joist on the outside to provide some visual relief.  The notched 2 x 6s you added to your posts are better than nothing, but I think just using 6 x 6s would be preferable.

Are your 2 x 10s pressure treated?  They look rather light in color to be treated. Also, have you applied preservative treatment to all of the post ends you've cut or notched?  It's required by the IRC, although most AHJ inspectors won't catch it.  The notched posts in your pix look "naked" (untreated).  I prefer copper napthanate, the dark green stuff you thin with Stoddard solvent, and it eventually turns a nice uniform brown.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 4, 2012)

BridgeMan,

I think i understand your "Rim Scab", i see how it adds strength.  Does this look like what you're saying?  Pardon my pencil sketch; it's not to scale.





Yes, the 2x10 beams are PT.  it's been suggest in this thread that I use Anchorseal for all cut ends.  I plan to treat the posts over all surfaces with Anchorseal.  I believe that will do the same as what you suggest.  Do you agree?

Roger


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## BridgeMan (Mar 4, 2012)

Yup, your sketch depicts what I described.  Assuming you're using 4 each of the shorter through-bolts, instead of just the 2 shown in the sketch.  I'd offset them from each other, and from a vertical plane.  I don't know anything about Anchorseal, but if you've researched it adequately and are happy with it, I am too.  In 50 years, it won't make any difference, right?  

The "catchy" fact about copper napthanate is that it is the strongest form of wood preservative that can be applied by any layman, without requiring a license to do so.  And it's also mentioned by name in the IRC deck reference.  

As an aside, how are you going to orient your deck planking?  The boring way (perpendicular to the joists), or the flashy way (angled at 45 degrees to the joists)?


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 4, 2012)

I will use 4 smaller bolt; i was planning to vertically aligned, but your idea of offsetting them vertically sounds good.

I'll do some research on Archonseal vs copper napthanate.  

As far as decking orientation.. have not decided... wil probably lay it out several ways and my wife and i will decide.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 13, 2012)

FYI - Using anchorseal....


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## joecaption (Mar 13, 2012)

I would have used on of these to set my base on, http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ABW.asp
With the post being indirect contact with the concrete in the Sonotube it can wick up moisture and rot out the post.
I would have avoided butting two rim joist, at a post. Instead there should have been one soild one and the other one could have been butted. With two joining there you will have made a pivit point where the rim can sag or bounce on each side of the post.
All an inspector is going to be looking for is the bare min. that code calls for.
By using 6 X 6's you would have had far more bearing suface to suppot the rim joist and not split out when bolted.
For any joist run over 6' I would have gone with 2 X 8's for joist and 2 X 10's for rim joist.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2012)

How meny ways can we say OVERKILL, this deck is at least 8" off the ground. Are we sure we don't need cross bracing on the posts or some other non sence.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 18, 2012)

Suggestions for "sealing" double 2x10 beam?





Should I seal the joint along the top between the 2x10?  If so, with Construction Adhesive?

Thanks in advance,
Roger


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 18, 2012)

Ps... All cuts are sealed with Anchorseal 2


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## joecaption (Mar 18, 2012)

Just attach some 30 lb. roofing paper to the tops of the joist.


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 18, 2012)

Ah, roofing paper... Nice inexpensive solution... That sounds good.  Thanks


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## RockyMtnBlue (Mar 18, 2012)

Post and beam detail
Roofing paper going in this week


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