# OK to cap ceiling or better to gut, replace?



## gnostic19 (Sep 25, 2010)

i have a 70 yr old house pier and beam with some terrible cracked popcorn ceiling in the living/dining/kitchen rooms. My house has moderate foundation issues, though it has more or less settled, though it does its seasonal shifting.

Anyways, the ceiling has cracks up to 10 ft long at every corner. Up in the attic i have some old nasty insulation, though there's not alot of it. It could probably be covered with some good insulation...at least the stuff that i can't bag myself. I want to replace the ceiling, but the thought of clearing out the half the house and having the ceiling and insulation crash down all over the place doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather cap the ceiling if possible with sheetrock. Only thing is, i know not all the ceiling is level, so i would have to have someone who had a clue about how to do this, right? Is this even a method used by people, or does it dd too much weight and risk crashing down after a while?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Sep 25, 2010)

How tall is you ceiling height and how much room do you have between the top of the windows and the ceiling?


----------



## gnostic19 (Sep 25, 2010)

8ft tall, 14" from celing to top of window molding.


----------



## budro (Sep 26, 2010)

you can put sheetrock up over an old ceiling. make sure you glue and screw it. nails will help here and there. a little sag causing it to not be level shouldn't be an issue since rock is a little flexible. if you have crown molding try to take it down easy and reuse it as it is probably characteristic of the house. new will be fine if that is the best thing to do. if you are hiring this out and trust your people, use their advice. you might want to consider 3/8th over 1/2 inch since it weighs less and also is easy to handle. it will probably cost a little more since 1/2 inch is industry standard. use your best judgement and you will be fine. thanks, budro


----------



## budro (Sep 26, 2010)

also make sure those screws penetrate through your current ceiling INTO the joists. thanks, budro


----------



## GBR (Sep 26, 2010)

Check the size, span and on center spacing of the ceiling joists. If the ceiling material is original to the house it is probably plaster and lath. This weighs 8# per square foot, plus the insulation above; cellulose weighs 1# per 7&#8221; thick. So if the joists are 2x4 original, max. span = 7&#8217;2&#8221; if 24&#8221;o.c. with a 10# live load. 

Gary


----------



## gnostic19 (Sep 27, 2010)

would there be a need to nail/screw up support-type  1x4 or 2x4 pieces of wood across the old sheetrock throughout the who ceiling and screw the new sheetrock over this, the old sheetrock and the beams in case the old sheetrock ever cracks and fails on to new sheetrock and weigh it down?

One guy told me they could go directly in to the old sheetrock and into the beams. That seems kind of rinky-dink to me. Don't you want to put some more support/bracing up there to hold up the old sheetrock?


----------



## budro (Sep 28, 2010)

you said my suggestion sounds rinky dink? i have screwed rock over other rock dozens of times and guess what? no call backs or complaints on any of them. your deal may be different though. if you don't know, get someone out who does. they will probably take a ladder, go up it and lightly push up at certain spots in your ceiling and determine how bad the situation is. they may want to take a look in the attic. is the sag between the old rock (or plaster) and the joists? or is the joists and rock sagging together? is this sagging lumber "relaxing" over years of playing a supportive role?  is it carrying a load you don't know about? or is it simply there to hold your ceiling? someone who knows what they are doing would be a good move i think. unlike many of my counterparts in the construction industry i have never done anything to any customer i wouldn't do in my own house. after 40 years in this business i have been blessed financially and my phone number is in the book.  if you do not know what application is best, then call a pro. at least get his advice on which way to go. if you do screw rock over other rock make sure you use screws long enough to penetrate well into the wood above the old rock. you can actually hold the old rock up with this new rock and be fine with correct application. if this "old" rock is plaster, the cracks can look worse than they are but sheer weight may be a big factor in determining which way to go. there may be a reason to not use my method, but it is not rinky dink. thanks budro


----------



## gnostic19 (Oct 6, 2010)

budro said:


> you said my suggestion sounds rinky dink? i have screwed rock over other rock dozens of times and guess what? no call backs or complaints on any of them. your deal may be different though. if you don't know, get someone out who does. they will probably take a ladder, go up it and lightly push up at certain spots in your ceiling and determine how bad the situation is. they may want to take a look in the attic. is the sag between the old rock (or plaster) and the joists? or is the joists and rock sagging together? is this sagging lumber "relaxing" over years of playing a supportive role?  is it carrying a load you don't know about? or is it simply there to hold your ceiling? someone who knows what they are doing would be a good move i think. unlike many of my counterparts in the construction industry i have never done anything to any customer i wouldn't do in my own house. after 40 years in this business i have been blessed financially and my phone number is in the book.  if you do not know what application is best, then call a pro. at least get his advice on which way to go. if you do screw rock over other rock make sure you use screws long enough to penetrate well into the wood above the old rock. you can actually hold the old rock up with this new rock and be fine with correct application. if this "old" rock is plaster, the cracks can look worse than they are but sheer weight may be a big factor in determining which way to go. there may be a reason to not use my method, but it is not rinky dink. thanks budro



Don't take it personal, pal, just saying what i think. Your follow up eases my mind. 
The ceiling has popcorn on it and some like 1/8"-1/4" plaster over the sheetrock. There some parts with gaping holes with 4x4" chunk cracked off. I covered it with 2 ash planks. It's right where the living room meets the dining room, so has kin da worked. Just shows how bad the ceiling is.

I think the joists are fine...it's just that my house has moved alot over the years(in TX) and it's probably the original sheetrock, right? House built in the 40s.


----------



## gnostic19 (Oct 6, 2010)

GBR said:


> Check the size, span and on center spacing of the ceiling joists. If the ceiling material is original to the house it is probably plaster and lath. This weighs 8# per square foot, plus the insulation above; cellulose weighs 1# per 7 thick. So if the joists are 2x4 original, max. span = 72 if 24o.c. with a 10# live load.
> 
> Gary



greek to me.


----------



## GBR (Oct 6, 2010)

Measure the span of the ceiling joists, measure the spacing. Plaster is heavy, adding more drywall may all crash down or at least sag, especially if water-based texturing it. Did you go into the attic for this information yet? Older houses had plaster and lath which weighs 8 pounds per square foot, depending on the framing material and the span with the on center spacing (how far apart each one is), one can calculate the load for the lumber. 

Gary


----------



## gnostic19 (Oct 7, 2010)

i rolld out some insulation last month and think the joists were 16", cause the rolls fit snugly between each joist. Well ,come to think of it, maybe they were 24". I'll have to check it out t be sure.


----------



## binahweb (Oct 13, 2010)

IMHO-- You can screw new over old, but you really don't know where to screw.. You have no studs to go by.., You could screw into a wire or a pipe, and then it would be a possible disaster..

Its a few hundred dollars more to pull the old stuff off and start with clean studs.. You can see the framing and see if there are other problems when you have it open.. 

For taping its all the same, but usually there is less _waviness _to the ceiling when its new drywall. If there is waves or humps your taper will end up by spending more time and using more materials to make it flat. Better to start right, rather than doing a cover job.


----------



## nealtw (Nov 30, 2010)

It's not productive to say a plan is rinky dink when some one is taking time to help you. It sounds to me like he has the knowledge and I to have done this in the past. I think I would regret calling him pal after he came back the second time. It's your job to understand or ask more questions, not get pissy.
Just saying.


----------

