# How can I wire in a new light fixture?



## BobStrauss (Aug 2, 2015)

Here is the existing outlet with a set of switches, one three-way and one single pole, correct?: 













But now I need to wire in a new single pole fixture (with a dimmer). If I turn 14/2 romex down to the switch, how can I do this correctly? The current mix of wires (running in series?) is a little confusing. 

Here are a couple of the switches, FWIW:


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## CallMeVilla (Aug 2, 2015)

Its not clear but I sense you are replacing the single pole switch on the right.  Your dimmer has the ability to be used on s 3-way but if you are going 2-way, you would connect the black and solid red wires to the black wires in your box.  The striped red-white wire remains capped.  Of course, you always need to connect the ground wires

Simple.


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## BobStrauss (Aug 3, 2015)

Soooooo....

Tried to get everything in the right position, but something's off. 

My kitchen lights (3-way) are on the left switch. My porch lights (3-way) are on the top right, and my new fixture (single pole) is on the bottom right - which is a combination switch. 

The hot (confirmed with a tester) is wired into the common on the top right of the combination switch. I then ran a wire from the bottom common of the combination switch to the left switch. After flipping the power on, I can confirm that power is going through all of those wires, but none of the switches work. Nothing turns on at all. 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Pics from the left to the right:


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## nealtw (Aug 3, 2015)

Starting over. In you fist picture, post 1 The switch on the right has a black wire coming from the switch on the left, 2 wires on one screw. You need 3 pigtails, 6" black wires conected to the power source with a mar connector. Run each of those pigtails to one side of each switch for the two switches on the right the black wire for each light goes to the other screw on each switch The whites from those two are joined with the white that came with the power source with a mar connector. Get those two lights working first and then work on the three way.


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## slownsteady (Aug 4, 2015)

Instead of running the hot line to a switch and then using jumpers to power the other switches, send the hot line to a wire nut and then provide each switch with it's own hot line pigtailed from there. That should simplify the way you treat each switch.

Did you run new 14/3 for your new 3-way switch?


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## BobStrauss (Aug 5, 2015)

I had a journeyman electrician come over to look at things, and he helped get me there most of the way. After he left, though, I noticed a problem with the three way switch for the porch. 

With it off at the switch inside, and off at the switch in the garage, the lights are ON. 

With it on at the switch inside, and off at the switch in the garage, the lights are OFF. 

With it on at the switch in the garage, it is ON regardless of whether or not it's on at the switch inside. 

Obviously something's wrong. Am I missing a black wire (traveler?) to the three way switch? IIRC, the guy couldn't determine where one of them went to. He may have just capped it together with a few others in the back.


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## bud16415 (Aug 5, 2015)

There is no off and on position to a three way switch. If the light is on flipping ether switch will turn it off if it is off flipping ether switch will turn it on.


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## nealtw (Aug 5, 2015)

Like Bud said, that is the way they are. 
A freind of mine had his bathroom re-done and they installed a door from the bed room as well has the hall, with a three way switch at each door. Two years later he said it was the strangest thing, the  light switch reversed itself , you now have to switch it down to turn on the light. I went in his bedroom and switched that switch correct the one in the hall.


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## BobStrauss (Aug 5, 2015)

I realize there's no "ON" switch necessarily in a three-way, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that if it's "ON" in the garage, the light is on regardless and won't flip off in the kitchen. If it's "OFF" in the garage though, it will flip on and off from the kitchen, but in the traditionally reversed position. 

I'm gonna try to get someone out again to look at it.


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## nealtw (Aug 6, 2015)

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-diagrams-3way-4.html
Note the position of the red wire in these 2 examples.


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## slownsteady (Aug 6, 2015)

sounds like Mr. journeyman wired the switches in series.


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## nealtw (Aug 6, 2015)

They are tricky especially when someone else took it apart, it should have been just changed wire for wire. Now they will likely have to pull the other switch and light to figure out what is what.


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## bud16415 (Aug 6, 2015)

There is nothing complicated about a 3 way switch set up once the light comes on in your head as how it works. Most people get confused at seeing all the wires going every directions and then seeing a picture of how it is supposed to look showing switches and bulbs. 

The first thing to grasp is a regular switch is a SPST single pole single throw or a switch that turns the flow on or off. A 3 way switch is a SPDT single pole double throw or a switch that directs the flow in one of two directions. There is no off or open position it is what people call a AB switch many times. The simplest way to view it in a circuit is in a &#8220;stick&#8221; form layout, where the switch is 3 dots and the one dot is the single pole where power goes and the other 2 dots are the double throw where the power comes out &#8220;A and B&#8221; they just show a line that flips between A and B and that&#8217;s the switch action. 

I looked on line and these 2 pictures show how it works as simple as I could find.

If you look at these for a minute I think the light will come on and once you understand the concept the rest falls into place.


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## nealtw (Aug 7, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> There is nothing complicated about a 3 way switch set up once the light comes on in your head as how it works. Most people get confused at seeing all the wires going every directions and then seeing a picture of how it is supposed to look showing switches and bulbs.
> 
> The first thing to grasp is a regular switch is a SPST single pole single throw or a switch that turns the flow on or off. A 3 way switch is a SPDT single pole double throw or a switch that directs the flow in one of two directions. There is no off or open position it is what people call a AB switch many times. The simplest way to view it in a circuit is in a stick form layout, where the switch is 3 dots and the one dot is the single pole where power goes and the other 2 dots are the double throw where the power comes out A and B they just show a line that flips between A and B and thats the switch action.
> 
> ...



It does get wacked when it isn't quit like the picture, like when the light is between the two switches, he did say something about an extra wire, what if power goes to light first. Your diagram may be right but I am not sure we have enough info.


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## bud16415 (Aug 7, 2015)

nealtw said:


> It does get wacked when it isn't quit like the picture, like when the light is between the two switches, he did say something about an extra wire, what if power goes to light first. Your diagram may be right but I am not sure we have enough info.


 

Yes there are basically 3 ways a 3way can be wired (power-switch-switch-lights) as I showed above, (power-light-switch-switch) and (switch-light/power-switch)

They are all doing the same thing wired slightly differently Mostly to save wire as in the one I showed the light or lights can be located anyplace you want coming off the second switch. 

The example I showed is to convey the concept (logic) of how a 3way works. I have found that with most people having trouble grasping an idea when they see it in its simplest form like the first photo I attached then say &#8220;ok I got it now&#8221;. After that they can look at the other forms and see they are just a variation on the concept. 

Here are 3 pics I found on line that show the possible ways it could be done based around where the power enters. The concept is the same as the simple layout I posted first the only difference is how they use the wires in the cable. The photos are about half way down on this page. 
http://www.how-to-wire-it.com/wiring-a-3-way-switch.html

As a side note one of the best uses of a 3way circuit I have found wasn&#8217;t for home wiring. I used two automotive AB toggle switches to light the dome light in my truck cap (topper). When I open the back of the truck at night I have a switch right there to turn the light on. If I forget and leave it on I have the second switch inside the truck to turn it off. If I&#8217;m in the truck and I want to check to see if my load shifted or something I can turn the dome light in the cap on and off from in the truck. I use the switches all the time and others that see it ask why don&#8217;t they make them that way on all trucks? So 3ways are not just for houses.


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