# Concrete basement wall question



## lea44 (Sep 29, 2015)

I'm attempting to finish a basement room sufficiently to be used as a work room. Two of the walls are concrete, one of which has a strange pipe and some sort of leak marks that will not wipe away. I was hoping you guys could tell me the best, most cost effective way to get some paint going in this room to brighten it. Originally I was going to just paint the concrete but I have a host of concerns regarding the holes in the concrete, the paint adhering long term, it looking poorly, etc. I considered sheet rocking it but I do not know what the pipe is or what to do about the metal loops sticking out along the top. Any advice is very much appreciated as we have lived here over a year and could sorely user this space to reduce clutter in the living quarters of our home. Thanks!


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

Welcome to the site. The usuall is to build a 2x4 wall with a 1" gap between the concrete and the wood wall. if that interst you I can help with more details.


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## beachguy005 (Sep 30, 2015)

I remember, years ago in NH, some people I know had a problem with their toilets not draining.  Being in NH and in the middle of winter, someone had the bright idea that the pipe to the septic tank must be clogged or frozen.  So they ran a hose from the water heater in their basement and hosed the clean out.  Of course they got all their water back plus other sewage that was getting dumped into the pipe.  It was in a condo complex and no one thought to check the level of the septic tank. It was full, so all they were doing was flushing the septic into their basement.  Literally knee deep in....well, you get the picture. 
Their clean out access was just like yours.


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## lea44 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks so much for the welcome . Nealtw I would very much appreciate further details on how to create the 2 x 4 wall. I assume it would only be a skeleton to brace the sheetrock on? The lovely incident with the septic tank sounds scary, should I be concerned about blocking the pipe area with a wall? so glad I wore gloves while trying to clean it .


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## Sparky617 (Sep 30, 2015)

Here is a good tutorial to start your project.

http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projects/basement/base_1.htm


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## beachguy005 (Sep 30, 2015)

Unless you know exactly what the pipes are, I wouldn't block them in.
The issue I have with building walls as noted earlier is that for every 2 to 3 feet of wall, you lose a square foot of basement floor space.  Which also extrapolates out to even more loss in cubic feet of space.


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## lea44 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks Sparky617; reading through it now.
Beachguy005, how would I go about figuring out what that pipe is? 
Truth be told I'm quite intimidated since you said it might be septic related. Maybe I'll just hang some super long curtains....


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## Sparky617 (Sep 30, 2015)

Given that there are no Drain, Waste, Vent pipes in the area it is not likely a connection to the sewer.  If you go on the outside of the wall in this area is there a clean out for the sewer between that point on the wall and the connection to the street or if you have a septic tank the tank?  If it were a drain line you'd see a main stack for the DWV lines attached to this point.  It very well could be an opening they put into the wall thinking the DWV was going to connect at this point but it didn't when the house was framed and plumbed.  You can put an access door here as well just to be safe.

For your supply line you can put an access port in the wall to allow access to the shutoff.

Yes, framing the walls out will cut out some floor space but it will make the basement more comfortable and usable than bare concrete walls.  Without framing all your electrical is surface mounted, which is fine for a shop but not very appealing for living space.


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

The black covered pipe with a valve looks like the water main incoming. Some one insulated it probably because it sweats. The pipe is cold and when warm moist air comes in contact with the pipe the moisture condences. Take a close up picture of the valve and post a thread in plumbing for an idea what it is. And Yes what ever it is you just build around it and make an access door.

The wall: when we build these wall, at the top we want no space to travel up between the floor joists. That is for fire stopping so if you ever have a fire in that wall it takes much longer for the fire to transfer upstairs giving time for people to get out of the house.
So we start with a 2x6 or a 2x8 at the top which ever will take you about 4 1/2 inches past the concrete wall. WQe use a quick tie form for concrete which leaves the inside some what less than straight and the inch space usually allows us to sneek by anything really ugly. The important thing is that the wood does not touch the concrete. If you end up to close with a few studs you can scinny the studs or slip a strip of sheet poly between the wood and concrete.
Once you have the top 2x6 or 2x8 in place you can use a plumb bob or a level and straight edge to mark the floor for the bottom plate. Mark the floor at both ends of the wall and use a chauk line to snap a line on the floor.
The bottom plate should not touch the concrete so you can put sheet poly, sill gasket or tar paper under it.
Buy borrow or rent the machine that will shoot nails into concrete, they are the easiest to use. They have differen shot for different material, make sure you get one for concrete. One nail every 3 ft will be plenty to hold the wall in place.
A second top plate is optional and the length of the studs being used often helps with that decission. We like to use pre-cut studs, the one that are a buch of little peices joined together with finger joints, they are lighter, dryer and straighter than 8 ft wets.
You do use wets for the top and bottom plates as they are better and easier to straghten to the line when nailing in place.
We do basements with studs at 24" on center. On the left side of the wall top plate put and x right beside the adjoining wall or top plate. with the end of your tape measure tight to the wall on the left mark a line at 23 1/4  inches and mark an X on the right side of that line. Tack a nail in at that line and stretch your tape out to the right and mark ever 24" with an X in the right of each and just add an X beside the wall on the right side.
For the floor, drop a plumb bob or level down and mark the floor sill,  tack a nail there and do the same as above.
If your floor is like what we get to work with, measure each stud and cut to fit.

Is that enough to get you started?


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## beachguy005 (Sep 30, 2015)

You'll need to have access to that line with the valve so I would just attach a pressure treated 2x4 to the wall on either side, from floor to ceiling. Then just box it in with a hinged cover.
As for the walls.  This is a pretty good video.


"How to Frame Out Basement Walls
This Old House general contractor Tom Silva shows how to fur out concrete basement walls to get them ready for drywall"

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20332381,00.html


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## Snoonyb (Sep 30, 2015)

lea44 said:


> I considered sheet rocking it but I do not know what the pipe is or what to do about the metal loops sticking out along the top. Any advice is very much appreciated as we have lived here over a year and could sorely user this space to reduce clutter in the living quarters of our home. Thanks!



Most paint mfg. have a product formulated for that purpose and you would patch the holes and divots with mortar.

The metal hoops are form ties that weren't cut off.

Shut the valve off and find out what does not turn on in the house.

A 2x4 wall decreases the room size by 5".

A 1-5/8" steel stud wall decreases the room size by 3-1/8" and is less labor.

Steel studs are slightly more expensive, easier to work with and do not rot.

1. Install 2x fire blocks between the floor joist even with the lower edge.
2. Strike a line 2-5/8" away from the wall on a floor joist, at or near both
    ends of the proposed wall.
3. Check the level of the concrete wall and if close to plumb, strike a line 2-
    5/8" out from the wall on the floor and another at the other end of where
    the wall will be, mark both the floor and ceiling joist with a chalk line.
4. Paint the floor with the paint used for the walls, leaving the lie visible.
5. The trac that is used in steel stud framing are a standard 10' length. Using
    a tin snips, cut two pieces the length of the wall.
6, Attach the trac to the bottom of the floor joists with 1-1/4" coarse thred
   drywall screws, every other floor joist.
7. Lay a piece of sisal-kraft or other sutible barrier on the painted floor and
    install the bottom trac using Tapcons, at 24"oc.
8. Cut and install the 25ga steel studs at 16"oc. using a single framing screw
    at both top and bottom trac.
9. Remember to box out for the access door for the valve.

If your next step is drywall, hang the top sheet first using the 1-1/4" screws.


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

I would like to see the moisture test that was shown in the video


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

Snoonyb said:


> Most paint mfg. have a product formulated for that purpose and you would patch the holes and divots with mortar.
> 
> The metal hoops are form ties that weren't cut off.
> 
> ...



We do insulate the wall so to keep the heat  away from the concrete because water will wick to the warm side.

 I like the foam in the video if the concrete is straight enough, it just wouldn't work with the way we do our concrete.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 30, 2015)

nealtw said:


> We do insulate the wall so to keep the heat  away from the concrete because water will wick to the warm side.
> 
> I like the foam in the video if the concrete is straight enough, it just wouldn't work with the way we do our concrete.



Modern subterranean poured in place concrete walls are required to be insulated and emulsion treated.

I only insulate on the interior if the proposed use is living space.


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

Snoonyb said:


> Modern subterranean poured in place concrete walls are required to be insulated and emulsion treated.
> 
> I only insulate on the interior if the proposed use is living space.



our code calls for the outside walls to be built and insulated, vapour bearer and drywall even on unfinshed basements. I have never seen steel studs in a new home, don't know if we could get away with that.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 30, 2015)

nealtw said:


> our code calls for the outside walls to be built and insulated, vapour bearer and drywall even on unfinshed basements. I have never seen steel studs in a new home, don't know if we could get away with that.



We do not have those requirement for non bering interior partitions and furred walls.

Commercial building are made of steel. Interior walls in commercial building are made of steel.

Steel framing is used all over the U.S. for single and multi family residential occupancy.


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

Snoonyb said:


> We do not have those requirement for non bering interior partitions and furred walls.
> 
> Commercial building are made of steel. Interior walls in commercial building are made of steel.
> 
> Steel framing is used all over the U.S. for single and multi family residential occupancy.



Our commercial building are steel studded inside too. I think part of the issue here is the different wiring requirment for steel studs and they are afraid of what home owners do when no one is looking.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 30, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Our commercial building are steel studded inside too. I think part of the issue here is the different wiring requirment for steel studs and they are afraid of what home owners do when no one is looking.



True and that is why we are here, the learning curve.


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## Sparky617 (Oct 1, 2015)

The metal hoops are form ties that weren't cut off.

These are usually scored so they will break off quite easily if smacked with a hammer from the side.


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## lea44 (Oct 4, 2015)

I just want to express my gratitude for all you guys' time to help me figure out how to tackle this problem. Hopefully I can get this done and post after pictures soon! Thank you fellas!


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## stadry (Oct 11, 2015)

thoroseal is good for this application


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