# Thermostat clicks but nothing happens



## o2284200

Hello all!

A/C has been running fine until last night.  The thermostat clicks but nothing happens; neither the  outside fan nor inside fan turn on.   Fans will also not turn on, if  switched to "On", instead of "Auto".     I checked breaker, still on...I turned it off, waited 30 seconds, turned it back on, which did not help.  FWIW, I also put fresh batteries in and  cleaned connections about one month ago.  

Your thoughts are greatly  appreciated, thanks!


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## doechsli

I would say a starter cap, but I believe the furnace/air handler fan would run regardless of a cap failure.  I just had one of these failures this year.

Another question is the "light switch" to control power to the furnace/air handler.  My three year old grandson turned that off once unknown to my son.  Typically around here they are mounted on the furnace/air handler.

Just guesses......good luck.


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## o2284200

What is a "starter cap"?   How does one troubleshoot it?

The only "light switch", other than the breaker is behind the unit and not accessible.   I  checked the breaker, it was still on...I turned it off, waited 30 seconds, turned  it back on, which did not help.


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## doechsli

The cap is located on the outside unit.  Troubleshooting is problematic unless you have the correct meter however the caps are fairly inexpensive (20-40 bucks) and not too difficult to change.  That said, if you don't know your way around electricity either find a competent friend or hire a pro.

Google AC starter cap and I bet a video pops up.....

Again, I have some doubt that is your issue since the inside fan is not working.

I'd start at the thermostat.......

Someone with more knowledge than I will jump in here soon.....

edit----I see you are in south Florida and may not have the combo of furnace/AC that I am used to seeing.....so my answers are subject to being totally off base.


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## kok328

Problem is not the cap, symptoms don't lead to that. 
You have to trouble shoot your way through but I'm putting my money on a blown control board fuse. 
Check that first. If it is good then post pics and find your volt meter.


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## o2284200

Thanks!
How do I check for a blown control board fuse?  
Here are some pics:

Air handler wiring


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## o2284200

I found one large purple fuse, inside air handler, which looks OK 
FWIW... I   have one of those cheap 7 function digital multimeter from HF as well as   a Milwaukee pen style digital multimeter.


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## overkill

First ,check and see if its a bad thermostat,by bypassing it. 
Take the thermostat cover off, then take the red,and yellow wire and connect the two. no need to turn the power off,its only 24volts and will not harm you.. did the system start ? if yes, then replace your Tstat. If not,then connect the wires back as they were,then procede with the following. 

3 things you can do yourself , and for your situation, I would turn off your power to the outside unit. Open the panel and look at the capacitor. Is it swollen on top ? if yes,its a bad cap. ,if not swollen, I would take a multimeter and check voltage to the contactor, on the terminals L1 and L2 ( that's the power coming from the outside units power panel) from the house . Check L1 L2 and make sure you have 240 V. ,next you could take an insulated screwdriver and wear heavy rubber gloves,and press down on the contacts for a second and see if it all starts up.. If it does then its a bad coil not pulling the contacts down on its own.. Be carefull  around the electrical part,get someone to do this if your not comfortable..  A capacitor and a contactor both cost about $25-35..  you'll save a ton if you can do this


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## overkill

Here is my capacitor I just changed last week. The new one is on the left, and bad one on the right.. You see how the top is swollen ? That's a sure sign you can look for... If you find it bad. Note,your wiring.. Brown = Fan .. Yellow = C (common) and Blue = Herm (that's the compressor) ..
Power off on the outside unit, drain the capacitor by touching a screwdriver across the terminals on the cap . They can hold enough power to shock you even when disconnected,so play it safe and drain the cap before handling..


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## kok328

Fuse is good. 
Start with line power to the unit. 
Check the control board for flashing light code & reference code the legend on back of cover panel. 
Check for 24volts on the secondary side of the transformer. 
Check for 24vokts at the tstat. 
Post back findings.


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## o2284200

kok328 said:


> Fuse is good.
> Start with line power to the unit.
> Check the control board for flashing light code & reference code the legend on back of cover panel.
> Check for 24volts on the secondary side of the transformer.
> Check for 24vokts at the tstat.
> Post back findings.


Forgive my ignorance but how do I do these, exactly?


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> Forgive my ignorance but how do I do these, exactly?



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Manual-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-MS8301A/206177756


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## o2284200

How about one of these?
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> How about one of these?
> http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html



Same but different.:thbup:


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> Same but different.:thbup:



Great, thanks! How do I do these tests with it?


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> Great, thanks! How do I do these tests with it?



Some one that knows this stuff will help you with that part.


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## kok328

If not comfortable using a DMM or don't know how to check for voltage then probably better to call a tech.


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## o2284200

kok328 said:


> If not comfortable using a DMM or don't know how to check for voltage then probably better to call a tech.


Newbie but comfortable with proper direction.


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## kok328

Ok you can't check power at the tstat cause you don't have a common wire "C" terminal. 
Start with Line power. 
Open the cabinet and find where power comes in from the service switch. 
Check for power between the unit and the switch. 
If you have power there then move onto the transformer. 
Post a clear pic of internals if you need help on that part. 
Any flashing LED light on any control boards?


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## o2284200

kok328 said:


> Ok you can't check power at the tstat cause you don't have a common wire "C" terminal.
> Start with Line power.
> Open the cabinet and find where power comes in from the service switch.
> Check for power between the unit and the switch.
> If you have power there then move onto the transformer.
> Post a clear pic of internals if you need help on that part.
> Any flashing LED light on any control boards?


I have not noticed any flashing LED light on any control boards but I do have the service switch turned off.   I believe the power comes in from the service switch with the 2 black & 1 green wires on the top right, which lead to a breaker in the top center.  If correct, how do I use my multi meter to check for power between the unit and the switch?


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## kok328

I didn't realize we were talking about an electric heater with A/C.
That 60 amp breaker is not for the A/C.
Turn on power to the air handler and see if it is flashing diagnostics codes.


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## WyrTwister

One thing I noticed about the photo of the circuit breaker , the lugs where the 2 large black wires terminate , show corrosion .

     With the circuit breaker in your panel turned on .  Be CAREFUL !  

     If you have a volt meter & wearing leather or rubber gloves , test to see if you have 240 VAC at the 2 black wires / lugs   

     If good , test at the 2 lugs at the opposite end of the circuit breaker .  Where the small black & small red  wires are located .

God bless
Wyr


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## o2284200

kok328 said:


> I didn't realize we were talking about an electric heater with A/C...


Neither did I...Hmm?  


			
				kok328 said:
			
		

> Turn on power to the air handler and see if it is flashing diagnostics codes.


 Power on to air handler...
No flashing codes or lights.


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## nealtw

Does this unit have a switch on the door and has it been checked?


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> Does this unit have a switch on the door and has it been checked?


 I do not see a switch on the door, as you describe.   
FWIW, the wiring diagram is available here in PDF.


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> I do not see a switch on the door, as you describe.
> FWIW, the wiring diagram is available here in PDF.



Just a hopeful shot in the dark.


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> Just a hopeful shot in the dark.


Thanks!  
Hoping someone more knowledgeable than I might be able to look further at the wiring diagram to see if there are provisions for a panel or door safety switch.


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> Thanks!
> Hoping someone more knowledgeable than I might be able to look further at the wiring diagram to see if there are provisions for a panel or door safety switch.



try this
http://www.selfhelpforums.com/showt...tent-heat-problem-with-Rheem-electric-furnace


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## WyrTwister

Did not see a door switch in the wiring diagram .

     Can not remember the correct name , but the diagram looks like this may be a variable speed motor ?

God bless
Wyr


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## o2284200

WyrTwister said:


> Did not see a door switch in the wiring diagram .
> 
> Can not remember the correct name , but the diagram looks like this may be a variable speed motor ?
> 
> God bless
> Wyr


Great, thanks!

If no door switch, we're back to:
Power on to air handler...
No flashing codes or lights.     

FWIW, as for the motor, others have told me the following:





> the unit has a X-13 constant torque motor which is tricky for some  Pros and  hard for a DIYer to troubleshoot...  It uses a low voltage signal from  the circuit board to energize the  motor. Has no capacitor and is not a  PSC motor.  You need a flow chart and some electrical experience and test meter and  to follow the chart steps to check it, not easy to do over the net.


Here's a pic of wiring diagram for ez viewing:


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## nealtw

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFyxOigkh9c[/ame]


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFyxOigkh9c


Thanks!
My connectors appear to be individual wires plugged into a non-removable panel on the motor, rather than the high voltage plug and low voltage plug,  which he disconnects, beginning @4:54.


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## nealtw

So the connections should be labeled for you to figure out which to pull out and check


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> So the connections should be labeled for you to figure out which to pull out and check


Labelled where?


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> Labelled where?



I would think the white block the wires are plugged into, they maybe just raised letters and hard to see.

Or perhaps on that diagram


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## nealtw

this will help understand some of the wiring but right at the end he talks about a flood switch that turns everything off if the water isn't draining
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCgPskm9aHs[/ame]


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## o2284200

nealtw said:


> this will help understand some of the wiring but right at the end he talks about a flood switch that turns everything off if the water isn't draining
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCgPskm9aHs


Thanks!
I need to watch that several more times but I DO have a flood safety switch like that:


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## nealtw

That would be easy to bypass to prove it isn't a problem.


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## kok328

nealtw said:


> That would be easy to bypass to prove it isn't a problem.



Neal, where are we with this one?

What's not working and what has been tested?


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## nealtw

kok328 said:


> Neal, where are we with this one?
> 
> What's not working and what has been tested?



Givin the location of the motor and individual plugs on it it will be hard to test for power there. So before he gets into that I just want to make sure it isn't some other switch like the float or something. But as usual, I am over my head.
We will need a better picture of the wiring diagram and maybe by feel he can find the other ends of the wires to test them.:hide:


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## kok328

o2284200 said:


> Thanks!
> Hoping someone more knowledgeable than I might be able to look further at the wiring diagram to see if there are provisions for a panel or door safety switch.



Nothing in this diagram, it's very basic.  Are there any others on the unit?


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## kok328

BE CAREFUL!!
Turn power on to unit.
Put your volt meter leads on L1 & L2 on the TBI in your diagram.
240Volts?
Now put your leads on the orange and black wires leading to the CT control transformer.
Still 240Volts?
Now put your leads on the brown and read wires on the CT.
24Volts?


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## o2284200

kok328 said:


> BE CAREFUL!!
> Turn power on to unit.
> Put your volt meter leads on L1 & L2 on the TBI in your diagram.
> 240Volts?
> Now put your leads on the orange and black wires leading to the CT control transformer.
> Still 240Volts?
> Now put your leads on the brown and read wires on the CT.
> 24Volts?


Thanks!
A bit confused and preparing to call ac tech but here's what I checked:

 1) Pulled purple fuse partially out, just enough so that I can get my  multi meter probe to make contact with the "blade" on the fuse.  
READINGS:
Touched the red probe to one side of the fuse and got no reading: 0.
Touched the red probe to the other side of the fuse and got no reading: 0.






2) Checked for 24vac, as follows....   
Power on...Meter to 200vac...The probes fit in bottom of top terminals (red and brown), where arrows were added to pic... 
NO  READING: 0

3) Checked for 240vac, as follows.... 
Power off...Slid the bottom terminals (orange and black) down slightly  to expose the metal blades of the transformer.  
Power on...Meter to  750vac...Placed one probe on orange and the other on black...
 READING: As high as 4 (four).


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## o2284200

OK, I bit the bullet and called in a tech for a service call.  He came out and first checked the thermostat and then went right for the breaker inside the air handler, at top...Power coming in...No power going out.  Then he went outside to the condenser and found a wire burnt out, at the top.  
$89 for diagnostics OR $350 for repair (replace breaker & repair top of wire).  
What would you do?


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## o2284200

I replaced the breaker ($59 at local electric supply store) and repaired the wire, in the condenser, as recommended...I now have  a/c!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Total out of pocket $123 ($64 diagnostics + $59 breaker) vs. quote of  $350 = SAVINGS of $227!  Thanks to all, who helped along the way!


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## WyrTwister

The 2nd photo looks like a contactor ?

     Glad you got it repaired .   :-_)

God bless
Wyr


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## slownsteady

I would be watching that wire. If the cause of the burn out wasn't corrected, it could happen again.


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## WyrTwister

Strip back enough insulation to expose shiny copper .  Clean / wire brush the screw / contact point .  Tighten securely .

     Often caused by insufficient " tightness " or vibration loosening the fastener .

God bless
Wyr


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## o2284200

slownsteady said:
			
		

> I would be watching that wire. If the cause of the burn out wasn't corrected, it could happen again.



Thanks!
Definitely, will keep an eye on, in future, now that I know.   One issue, if it happens again is, I won't have enough wire to reach contact.


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## nealtw

o2284200 said:


> Thanks!
> Definitely, will keep an eye on, in future, now that I know.   One issue, if it happens again is, I won't have enough wire to reach contact.



I think inside there you can just add a pigtail.


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