# Who else is watching Obammie's State of the Union Address?



## havasu (Jan 12, 2016)

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, .......

Yeah, I'm watching Obammie as well.


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 12, 2016)

Watching reruns of Mayberry RFD


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## mudmixer (Jan 12, 2016)

I missed it and was lucky so I watched the Travel Channel and the History Channel. - Now, I can plead ignorance tomorrow morning at my local breakfast/coffee stop.

I suspect, I will be haunted by the commentators and "talking heads" for a day or two until everyone forgets.

When it comes to politics, I lean toward looking at accomplishments and results and take plans and promises with a grain salt.

Dick


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## bud16415 (Jan 12, 2016)

I watched a movie and when I got done I looked out the window and we got 18&#8221; of snow in 2 hours. So I went out fired up the old GMC and the radio was on NPR uggg. So I plowed like a crazy man listening to him.


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## CallMeVilla (Jan 12, 2016)

Been to it  ....  seen it  .... he only lies when his mouth moves


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## havasu (Jan 12, 2016)

The Republican rebuttal was great however.


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## nealtw (Jan 12, 2016)

They were both talking about Trump


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## slownsteady (Jan 12, 2016)

The president could give each of you a million dollars and you'd still hate him. Sure, he has liberal viewpoints. But I think he's a guy sincerely looking to reach above politics and pull us all up with him. Problem is he can't dig himself out.


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## havasu (Jan 12, 2016)

I guess ostriches aren't the only ones with their head in the sand for the last 7 years?   :rofl:


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## nealtw (Jan 12, 2016)

havasu said:


> I guess ostriches aren't the only ones with their head in the sand for the last 7 years?   :rofl:



That does seem to be the American way


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## slownsteady (Jan 12, 2016)

We each choose our own pile of sand.


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> The president could give each of you a million dollars and you'd still hate him. Sure, he has liberal viewpoints. But I think he's a guy sincerely looking to reach above politics and pull us all up with him. Problem is he can't dig himself out.




By pulling up you mean the 20k I spent last year on healthcare before my copay was met? It was met in the middle of December, have to start over now. 5 years ago I spent 80 a month on health care with a 10 dollar copay. Now I spend a grand a month and 100% until my 8k copay is met. My health insurance paid absolutely nothing last year towards my medical yet I spent as much on the insurance as I did on my mortgage.

I am part of the working middle class who gets screwed with all these new laws and projects. That is the reason I am not happy with our president.

I own a business, I employ 7 people and pay them enough to support their families while I struggle working 14 hour days sometimes not making enough to pay my own bills. All this while I have a buddy that has a girlfriend and a kid on government assistance with no jobs living the same life style as me except they are eating name brand food while I eat generic. 

It almost seems that under his rule I am being punished for trying to succeed.


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## havasu (Jan 13, 2016)

I bet your buddy also has a few Obammie phones in their pockets as well?


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## KULTULZ (Jan 13, 2016)

I can't stand to watch or listen to him. I am an equal opportunity hater as I could not stand GW or Clinton either.

The *Ayatollah of Hate and Disinformation* is not smart enough to come up with most of this left wing lunacy. He was put there by a political machine and has done more to destroy America than either Hitler, Stalin or Tojo ever dreamt of.

Our government is the best money can buy. It is corrupt and inept. 

And the next eight years is going to be complete hell.

My next post will tell you how I really feel...


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## beachguy005 (Jan 13, 2016)

The issue I have when I hear him is his condescending, self righteousness that he spits out at anyone that refuses to drink his Kool-Aid.  "You can keep your doctor"....when we knew we wouldn't be able to.  "They're afraid of women and orphan refugees"...when we saw the majority of them were battle age men. They talk about Trump being a divider but Obama has been one for the last 7 years. The big difference is that Trump's honest about it.


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2016)

mudmixer said:


> .
> 
> When it comes to politics, I lean toward looking at accomplishments and results and take plans and promises with a grain salt.
> 
> Dick



My one take away from this thread is Mudmixers quote. Accomplishments is a very good way to put it. I actually am convinced he has accomplished a lot of his true goals over the last 7 years. 

Chriss post is a great example of an accomplishment. Wealth redistribution. Chris may well be in the middle class and a working man and I doubt he is in the evil 1% I keep hearing about and maybe hes in the top 5% and for sure the top 10% and thats just assuming wealth in the USA worldwide most of us fall into the top couple percent.  I saw a report someplace if you took the total wealth of the world and divided it by the population of the world that would be very fair right. Dont work and make your own wealth just everyone gets the same piece of the pie. No evil corporations with wealthy guys running them just equality. Everyone could take their share and spend it as they like until it ran out. How could it ever run out there is so much wealth that these fat cats making the jobs have we could all live forever on the wealth of the world right? Well the number you get is something around $30,000 keep in mind if you have more than 30k you arent getting nothing you have to give some up in order to have equal distribution. 

There are people in government that think this is better. The method of redistribution can be different but the effect is the same. We are all paying more for health coverage or getting less coverage or a combination of both because of what happened in the plan of redistribution. If the single payer plan could have made it thru we wouldnt be complaining about healthcare costs we would be complaining about taxes and poor services or our country going more in debt to other countries with loans. 

Thats only one item of one accomplishment he achieved the list goes on. The plans and promises Mudmixer talked about are the smoke screen to cover the rest. It is all talk and double talk and as long as 50% of the voters take the smoke screen to heart and even see it as Well thats what he wanted to do but never had the support of the other side. Then we will keep getting more of the last 7 years. 

Thats my rant of 2016 check me off the list oldog. We still get 3 right before we get the boot.  :help:


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

Here is a good example of my reality.

Yesterday I was sitting in my office opening my mail, I got a letter letting me know that although I have already paid my portion of the FUTA (Federal Unemployment Tax Act) that is normally .6% of taxable wages paid, the state of California had depleted their funds and had to borrow money through a federal loan account. The state of California failed to repay this loan in 2015 so it is the responsibility of employers to pay a greater tax amount. My new tax is an extra $1,586.00 which will be auto debited on January 22nd. No option for payments or extensions.


This is a prime example of government failure.


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2016)

Yep that&#8217;s 1500 bucks you could have paid an employee he would have made money and you would have made money on his labor and both of you would have paid taxes on the greater amount of money. Call it trickle down if you like but that&#8217;s how it works. 

Everyone in business expects rules and regulations it would be like a football game without rules or referees. Pretty soon players would be showing up with switchblades and AK47 if there was just reward but no rules to winning. So everyone expects rules and regulations, and you can chose to get into a business based around the rules and if you can make money. It&#8217;s when you keep changing the rules as the game goes on it is not fair. The team is first and 10 and runs the ball 11 yards and the ref goes wait that just got changed you need 12 now for a first down. That&#8217;s what they are doing to every industry and utility and any other industry they want to win or lose. Team A you need 12 yards for a first down team B you also need 12 yards we want to be fair now,oh but by the way team B gets an incentive of 3 yards per play because we want that team to win.


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## havasu (Jan 13, 2016)

Chris, just do what most Californians have learned to do. Quit your job, collect unemployment, get free medical, get Section 8 housing, Food stamps, EBT cards, free phones and don't pay taxes. 

I heard on the news yesterday that the local Homeless Coalition is now demanding $2 Billion (with a B!) dollars to provide free homes for our local bums. It just keeps getting better and better for these Obama voters!


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

I heard about that too, they are trying to build large apartment complex's for them. I don't think that will fix any problem but will definitely create a bunch of new ones. Could you imagine the crime in them?


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## havasu (Jan 13, 2016)

Kinda reminds me of Nickerson Gardens, right?

http://homicide.latimes.com/post/nickerson-gardens-wall/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickerson_Gardens

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/nickerson-gardens-housing-project

http://www.streetgangs.com/bloods/losangeles/bountyhunters

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf82cqJvaZU[/ame]


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## nealtw (Jan 13, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> Yep thats 1500 bucks you could have paid an employee he would have made money and you would have made money on his labor and both of you would have paid taxes on the greater amount of money. Call it trickle down if you like but thats how it works.
> 
> Everyone in business expects rules and regulations it would be like a football game without rules or referees. Pretty soon players would be showing up with switchblades and AK47 if there was just reward but no rules to winning. So everyone expects rules and regulations, and you can chose to get into a business based around the rules and if you can make money. Its when you keep changing the rules as the game goes on it is not fair. The team is first and 10 and runs the ball 11 yards and the ref goes wait that just got changed you need 12 now for a first down. Thats what they are doing to every industry and utility and any other industry they want to win or lose. Team A you need 12 yards for a first down team B you also need 12 yards we want to be fair now,oh but by the way team B gets an incentive of 3 yards per play because we want that team to win.



That implies he is in a game against his employees or the government, and that is wrong. He is in a game with his competetors and the ground rules are the same evan when those rules are changing. When competing there few rules. 
The problem in any small business is one question, *when can I pass this on to the customer and can I add a little extra for me and what and when will the competitors do*

After that there few rules for him, he can have a small crew and work them every day or he could hire five crews and spend more time on sales and bill collecting. Every size of small business will have their own set of complaints.

There are some things we never talk about while we are complaining like the perks. We don't talk about the odd tank of a gas in the wifes car on the company card, or having the crew come over and install the new septic system. We don't write a personal check when we have the boys over to help us move from house to house. And we likely wouldn't know how or want to figure out with all of this to actually know what persentage we actually paid out.


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

My problem is I try to run thing by the book. If I have guys work at my house I pay them from money from my checks. My truck gets filled with money from my paycheck. I also have a work truck that on occasion I do use for personal use but it is a work truck with no luxuries so it is not often. I don't ever get paid in cash since I do commercial work so there is no hiding anything for me. It is actually cheaper to pay my guys from my check than to pay them from the company because after taxes and work comp that 25 bucks an hour turns into 43 bucks an hour. I am on payroll and an employee just like all my employee's. I don't want to be that guy with no social security or other benefits because of the way I paid myself. 

It is truly a real struggle to get ahead, my company brings in good money but at the end of the day there is not much left. My foreman makes more than I do and that shouldn't be. Last year I paid more money in required insurances and taxes than anything else I spent money on.

By all means I still feel like a success and still feel I am getting ahead but it just knocks me back a little when people can do nothing and be at the same level as me. I am only banking on a better retirement and being able to leave something to my kids so that their struggle can be a little less than mine.

I am still a believer and proof that in America you can be anything you want to be and make as much money as you want if you try, but you have to try. Problem is most people don't try or won't work for it and our society is teaching them that hand outs are the way to go.


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## nealtw (Jan 13, 2016)

I think ours costs more, we have 10 paid days off for Canada day and Labour day and such, Two weeks holiday a year, 3 after three and 4 after five and 5 after 7. But anyone that wants to keep long tirm good employees has the same problem. But all my competitors would have the same complaint.
Even if some new gov. could figure out how to lower all these expences, you would still have a problem, do you lower your prices or make more money and the biggest question is still what does the compeditor do. And of coarse the employees also would know about your what would look like a winfall and would expect their share. 

You are also breaking the rules when you pay cash to your employees, or you would be up here. They will not likely report these earnings so you a party to tax evasion and you are working with people that are not covered by WCB. The proper way to do it is to pay with company money and you pay the company at cost. Of coarse non of you compeditors are doing that.


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

I pay guys cash when they work at my house, it is then up to them to report the earnings, not me. I never pay cash for work done at work. It would be the same as you hiring a guy to work on your lawn, it is not your responsibility to make sure he does the right thing.

If I wanted to I could pay cash to my guys at work to as long as I report it. I don't because a payroll company is much easier.

I don't pay my guys for any holidays at the moment, I would like to but there is not enough extra money to do so. If I charge more for jobs than I would just not get the jobs. Its a tough business to be in.


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2016)

Of course you are in business against your competitors but the rules are different for different people. Say you sell energy. Coal is bad very bad. Natural gas is pretty bad. Oil is bad. Wind is real good. Solar is really really good. If your company cant make a profit and will never make a profit but the government likes what you are doing they give you help. You get in that business not to make anything just for the help. If you built a business with a set of rules and the government doesn&#8217;t like what you are doing they slap you with a carbon tax. If you are a non union auto company headquarter  over seas and making every single part of the car in the USA with American workers you get no help. If you are an American car company with a big union and get 90% of your parts overseas you get bailed out. The last 7 years has been picking winners and losers based around elections and who helped who. 

Government isn&#8217;t the solution they are the problem. 

Chris has a friend that&#8217;s on the dole. If we took all the freebies away would he die? Would he sit around a little bit and say I better get my butt in gear and do something?


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## havasu (Jan 13, 2016)

I just came from a local area (Mountain Ave and the 10 Fwy) and saw 7 panhandlers, all vying to take money from you as you drive by. Every one of those guys were able bodied and it amazes me how many motorists just toss them money left and right. Funny thing is about 300 yards away is a car wash that always has a sign un which says "Help Needed." Do you think it is just easier to sit on your arse and collect money than to work for it? Well, these last 7 years prove exactly my point.


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## Chris (Jan 13, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> Of course you are in business against your competitors but the rules are different for different people. Say you sell energy. Coal is bad very bad. Natural gas is pretty bad. Oil is bad. Wind is real good. Solar is really really good. If your company cant make a profit and will never make a profit but the government likes what you are doing they give you help. You get in that business not to make anything just for the help. If you built a business with a set of rules and the government doesnt like what you are doing they slap you with a carbon tax. If you are a non union auto company headquarter  over seas and making every single part of the car in the USA with American workers you get no help. If you are an American car company with a big union and get 90% of your parts overseas you get bailed out. The last 7 years has been picking winners and losers based around elections and who helped who.
> 
> Government isnt the solution they are the problem.
> 
> Chris has a friend thats on the dole. If we took all the freebies away would he die? Would he sit around a little bit and say I better get my butt in gear and do something?



My buddy was a very hard working person, worked two and three jobs at a time. He did great until he got a taste of the easy life, as soon as he got one form of assistance that same government office told him how to collect another and another. 

I agree 100%, its all about who you support now. Has nothing to do with what the plan is or how good it is.


Havasu, I see that all the time around here, we have one offramp that has the same few guys who rotate to collect money. I've seen the same guy for a couple years now, always the same sign, unemployed vet trying to feed family.


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2016)

One advantage of living where we have 4 or 5 months of blizzards per year. Those guys never make it around here they get on the first bus to Southern California.


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## Chris (Jan 14, 2016)

havasu said:


> Kinda reminds me of Nickerson Gardens, right?
> 
> http://homicide.latimes.com/post/nickerson-gardens-wall/
> 
> ...



I am pretty certain that it would be the exact same thing. You can't build a 1000 unit apartment and throw all the homeless in it and expect things to be civil. If you have ever been to downtown you would know these are not normal people that are homeless, these are the kind of homeless that will shank you for your shoes.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2016)

havasu ;Chris, Which one of you won the money.


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## Chris (Jan 14, 2016)

Must have been Havasu, I lost more than I would like to admit.


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## havasu (Jan 14, 2016)

I called my bartender/bookie today. When he answered the phone, I knew at that point it wasn't me who won....however I did win $2 on a $10 ticket! Whoo hoo, I only lost $8!


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2016)

When they first put the readers in the stores here, the one that check you ticket, they just said you are a winner, not how much. One of the girls that worked for me checked her ticket and when it said you are a winner, she yelled and sreamed and kissed half the people in the store and made wild promises to people working there before should found out she had won $1.


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## bud16415 (Jan 15, 2016)

We bought 25 tickets at work between 8 people for the last go around. We won the power ball 4 whole bucks. My cut was 50 cents. I told the guy that went for the tickets to keep it for gas.


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## Chris (Jan 15, 2016)

I won 12 bucks but sadly spent more than ten times that.

I tossed 40 bucks on our super lotto because no one else was playing it so my odds would be better, I was wrong.

I rarely play the lotto so every now and again I don't mind throwing some money at it. You can't win if you don't play.


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## slownsteady (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm not posting this to continue the discussion above, as that would be futile. And I'm not even dissing conservatism, everyone has a right to their opinions, and not everything is wrong just because you're on the other side of the red/blue line. 
But I thought  I would bring up this subject because as the race tightens, I wish common sense would start to take over:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/o...ald-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

Yep, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Even Peter Weiner....what a name to live with!


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 17, 2016)

I think the reason we are seeing Trumps popularity is people are sick and tired of the BS that professional politicians spew to get elected , then become elitist and forget why they were sent there. It doesn't mater what party you support, there's really little difference. Trump brings a different solution for the problem of big government. Am I a Trump supporter, no. Am I glad he entered the race, you bet. About time someone shook things up in Washington. 

I sincerely hope someone can gain traction and become a leader that will bring unity, have fiscal responsibility and restore our role of leadership in this troubled world.


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

Well said Tom.


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## bud16415 (Jan 17, 2016)

I agree with quite a bit Peter Weiner said in that article actually. The one part I wouldn&#8217;t is that Trump would be the least qualified person to ever hold the job. I truly see the current president as the least qualified and on my measuring tape I would give Trumps age, real world experience and education points above Obama&#8217;s public and private record. It is the way it&#8217;s done to build a resume before running for office these days. Not a natural progression of public service its more like you pick a state you can win like NY move there and run for senator then get in a close primary race and get a job as secretary of state as second place to punch that card and be in line for next time around. So now you have a resume. 

Bill Clinton and I never thought I would say this wasn&#8217;t that bad of a president. He could have been but he got stymied very much like Obama did with a republican congress. Clinton was smart enough to realize he had to work with Gingrich or get nothing and he triangulated on a lot of issues and things improved. I personally see Hillary not doing that and being more of an Obama type clone. Bill was to me more of a liberal and she is much more of a progressive. 

As to Trump I will be quite surprised if he actually makes it to be the nominee These polls mean nothing and when you are as bombastic as he is the media pics up on all that BS and everyone knows him to start with and you ask a bunch of people who they like they and 25% of them say Trump its not surprising to me. 

We just watched a 140 wild ideas that never happened and those were stated after the guy was elected. He was even making wilder ones when he was at the point Trump is at now. Actually saying some down right scary things. No one wants to hear a bean counter explain how the economy works and how he is going to fix it. They want to hear all these big bold plans without any details and believe them like they might really happen.


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

Just adding my two cents, I am just surprised that with all these brilliant people in the United States, we only get to choose the listed buffoons. I could easily cross party lines IF the right person was willing to volunteer his time to make America great again.


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## frodo (Jan 17, 2016)

oldognewtrick said:


> Watching reruns of Mayberry RFD




i bought my wife the complete set of andy for christmas

90 cd's i think.


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## slownsteady (Jan 17, 2016)

I missed the republican debate when it was live, and only saw it last night. As the real voting gets closer, I am more surprised that Trump is still center stage.And I dislike the fact that until now the media has been thinning the field by displaying only a few candidates (less each time) and by giving center stage to Trump each time. It makes me feel like I'm watching "The Bachelor" or the NCAA playoffs, instead of something that I will be participating in.
I will give Trump credit for bringing attention to the race, but now I worry that time is running short and that the grown-ups should be getting more attention.
I'd like to hear what you guys think of the other candidates....


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## Chris (Jan 17, 2016)

I personally like Rubio. He doesn't seem to be bought as much as the others.


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

Ben Carson would have my vote if he would just learn to speak up and not talk like a kid who was just caught masterbating in a school classroom. 


Wow, where did that come from? :hide:  He is a brilliant man if he didn't seem scared of his own shadow.


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## slownsteady (Jan 17, 2016)

> Just adding my two cents, I am just surprised that with all these brilliant people in the United States, we only get to choose the listed buffoons. I could easily cross party lines IF the right person was willing to volunteer his time to make America great again.


Anybody who is _really_ smart, wouldn't take the job. I think ego is the biggest factor at this point.


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

at least the job has some good looking aids to make the day go by faster. Just ask Clinton.


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## Chris (Jan 17, 2016)

I agree about Ben. If he wasn't such a wussy I'd like him more. He also seems like he is fibbing to fit in but that could be his childish talk making me think that.


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## Chris (Jan 17, 2016)

I want someone who is not afraid of confrontation or being put on the spot


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## havasu (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm listening to the democrap debate currently and just heard Hillary say that she demands that all police officers carry Narcon on them to provide to anyone suffering from a heroin overdose. Does she not understand that incorrect dosage or administration of that drug will kill someone much faster that the heroin overdose itself?


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## nealtw (Jan 17, 2016)

havasu said:


> I'm listening to the democrap debate currently and just heard Hillary say that she demands that all police officers carry Narcon on them to provide to anyone suffering from a heroin overdose. Does she not understand that incorrect dosage or administration of that drug will kill someone much faster that the heroin overdose itself?



I suspect that would come with training.


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## havasu (Jan 18, 2016)

Problem is today it is narcan. Tomorrow, it is pills for the fat folks. Next week we will trade in our guns for blood pressure equipment. Good gawd, let cops do cop stuff and let the paramedics do their thing. Are paramedics now going to carry guns?


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## slownsteady (Jan 18, 2016)

Chris said:


> I want someone who is not afraid of confrontation or being put on the spot



That's a prerequisite..........isn't it?


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## slownsteady (Jan 18, 2016)

havasu said:


> Problem is today it is narcan. Tomorrow, it is pills for the fat folks. Next week we will trade in our guns for blood pressure equipment. Good gawd, let cops do cop stuff and let the paramedics do their thing. Are paramedics now going to carry guns?



I think you're right here. Cops carry enough crap, and have enough to think (and train) about.


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## frodo (Jan 18, 2016)

A cops job is to call the emt, the emt's job is to administer care.


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## bud16415 (Jan 18, 2016)

I like Rand Paul actually, fiscally conservative socially more liberal.


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## havasu (Jan 18, 2016)

I watched the Democrat debates last night and honestly like the guy standing next to Hillary and that old white dude. I don't know him name though.


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## nealtw (Jan 18, 2016)

havasu said:


> I watched the Democrat debates last night and honestly like the guy standing next to Hillary and that old white dude. I don't know him name though.



Martin O'Malley?


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## havasu (Jan 18, 2016)

Yep. He was the only one that wasn't annoying to listen to. Hillary and Sanders both are similar to fingernails on a chalkboard.


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## nealtw (Jan 18, 2016)

If you beleive that anyone will keep there promise of getting rid of Obamacare, you are drinking cool aid, Burnie is the only one talking about how to fix it. The other two do have some plans for it. The other side just BS about it.
If the people on the right beleive it will be overturned, no one asks how it will be fixed. Nothing more tha we will replace it with something better. What would that be?


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## Chris (Jan 18, 2016)

I think better would be what we had 10-20 years ago.

 That would be better for me at least. 

The year 2000 I used to pay under 100 bucks a month for health insurance and a 10 dollar copay per visit and never had anything denied ever.

The year 2015 I paid Twenty thousand dollars for my premium before my deductible was met, once met my copay was 50 dollars. Many item are not covered or are now only from a specialist who I have to pay another copay. Let me repeat that I paid *$20,000* for absolutely nothing this year except to be able to say I had insurance. I could have bought and paid off a brand new car.

The part that frustrates me is that I would love to have my wife be a stay at home mother but healthcare and healthcare alone is what makes it not possible. We have to pay 1,400 a month for daycare for the two kids and 400 a month in fuel for her to go to work to make enough money to cover health insurance and daycare. It costs me about 500 a month for her to go to work but it saves me about 700 a month in what it would cost for the health insurance.

I am blaming Obama for Obamacare, I understand is is not all him but just like if one of my guys screws up at work the blame comes to me. He put his name on it so therefore it is his fault. I truly do understand that it is probably helping millions that cannot or will not help themselves but it is coming at the cost of of every person who is trying to work hard and make a good life for themselves and their families. Once again being punished for working hard and doing well.


If I ran my company like the government runs anything I would have been out of business a long time ago.


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## nealtw (Jan 18, 2016)

So who do think is taking advantage?  ACA was writtin for these guys. But you wouldn't want to regulate them would you?
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=ANTM+Interactive#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}


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## Chris (Jan 18, 2016)

I can't get your link to do anything.

I think every bit of the government is taking advantage. Problem is how to fix it? Can't start over. Too many hands in the pot to even get any change out of it.


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## nealtw (Jan 19, 2016)

It was just the stock chart for an insurance company,
It will work just copy and paste the address in that place where you put those things.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

Yup they are taking advantage of the situation as well. They are doing better than they ever have. Go tell the rest of the country that they have to put in pipeline in every house and I can guarantee my company will be worth a whole lot more too. They re a business so we already know what they are in business for and that is to make money. Our government is supposed to be for helping its citizens.


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## frodo (Jan 19, 2016)

that old white dude wants you to give up 90% of your money to tax's,   he is a socialist 

personally, i am for less gubment intrusion. not more


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## nealtw (Jan 19, 2016)

Chris said:


> Yup they are taking advantage of the situation as well. They are doing better than they ever have. Go tell the rest of the country that they have to put in pipeline in every house and I can guarantee my company will be worth a whole lot more too. They re a business so we already know what they are in business for and that is to make money. Our government is supposed to be for helping its citizens.



I have heard alot about , we will do away with it and do something better, my question is, better for who. 

So when some one comes up with a real plan, you will let me know.


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## slownsteady (Jan 19, 2016)

Chris said:


> I think better would be what we had 10-20 years ago.
> 
> That would be better for me at least.
> 
> ...



Just to be fair, I bet what you were paying in 2000 is not what you were paying in 2013, just before the ACA went into effect. 
If the ACA was to be dismantled now, do you think that the insurance companies would lower their rates? I wonder if those guys had it rigged from the start so that it would fail after they got all new sign-ups.


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## slownsteady (Jan 19, 2016)

If all health insurance was left to the open *retail market*...not allowed to be part of your job or your benefits...I think the insurance companies would have to compete for Joe Six-pack. it would make a total difference in how they package their product.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

There is no real plan or good plan.

I feel we need to help those with disabilities, the elderly and children but every able bodied person should have to find a way to pay for it just like I do. I don't believe you should get a discount because you don't want to get a better job or a second job. I only speak from personal experiences and what I see in my life and what I see are a bunch of people taking advantage of a system because they can.

My brother was given disability a few years back and they thought he was a goner. Well he ended up getting better but he still gets his permanent disability. A few months ago I offered him a job at 20 bucks an hour with a company truck. He declined because he would loose his free money. 

I see this all around me on a daily basis. I really wish that anyone that doesn't believe this attitude is more common than not to spend any amount of time in the city of Los Angeles or any surrounding city. It truly makes you want to give in and join them.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Just to be fair, I bet what you were paying in 2000 is not what you were paying in 2013, just before the ACA went into effect.
> 
> If the ACA was to be dismantled now, do you think that the insurance companies would lower their rates? I wonder if those guys had it rigged from the start so that it would fail after they got all new sign-ups.




In 2013 I was paying 89 bucks a month for coverage with a 1900 deductible. Not as good as 2001 but nowhere near now.


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## slownsteady (Jan 19, 2016)

Chris said:


> In 2013 I was paying 89 bucks a month for coverage with a 1900 deductible. Not as good as 2001 but nowhere near now.



In that case, I sympathize.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> If all health insurance was left to the open *retail market*...not allowed to be part of your job or your benefits...I think the insurance companies would have to compete for Joe Six-pack. it would make a total difference in how they package their product.




I agree. I don't have company supplied healthcare. That would be great if everyone had to purchase their own coverage. Including all government employees from all levels. That would make it a true fair system.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

We all have to buy our own car insurance and home insurance, life insurance and the like. None of those give discounts based on income level


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## nealtw (Jan 19, 2016)

Like I said , that arguement is over. You will let me know when you hear of a plan.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

I guess you will never hear from me because there will never be a plan from anyone.

I am not voting for someone based on  empty promises anyway. I try and listen to everything they say and then look for the lesser of the evils.


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## bud16415 (Jan 19, 2016)

If you want to know where Obamacare came from do a search on Robert Creamer and Jonathan Gruber add in the word Obamacare for good measure. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...was-passed-by-exploiting-political-ignorance/


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

I still blame the guy who put his name all over it.

It's a tough situation, you make health care equal and fair and the poor start screaming that we are excluding them because they can not afford it. If you make healthcare free or cheap for the poor than the rest have to pay more to accomplish that and then they are screaming that they don't want to pay more. Where do we draw the line? Another question is why is it a law that you have to have health care? Why is there fines in place for those who don't qualify for cheap heath care yet can't afford health care? I went years as a cash paying person and saved a bunch of money. Why can't we have just catastrophic insurance that doesn't cover check ups and things like colds, common broken bones and the like? 

I would be ok with paying say 40-50% of my income to taxes if all these promises were going to be kept and I had no worries about schooling, jobs, healthcare or any of these other things but in reality this is America and that will never work with all the greed and corruption we have in our government. We would get to be like Norway and then some politician would need more money so then taxes would go up again.


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## frodo (Jan 19, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> If all health insurance was left to the open *retail market*...not allowed to be part of your job or your benefits...I think the insurance companies would have to compete for Joe Six-pack. it would make a total difference in how they package their product.




exactly,  my wifes obama care went from  $35.00 a month to $145.33  with no change in circumstance

how is an unemployed person supposed to pay that? thought it was called  "Affordable Health care"

she was FORCED to go on medicaid,


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## slownsteady (Jan 19, 2016)

> I still blame the guy who put his name all over it.



Again, trying to be fair and adult in a conversation; Obama did not name the ACA "Obamacare".

 Jeanne Schulte Scott argued for the trade journal Healthcare Financial Management in March 2007 that then-President Bush had "put all his eggs into his 'privatization' basket" in his 2007 State of the Union address; nevertheless, he made health care the "issue du jour" for the 2008 presidential race. "Health care is hot!" she wrote, and then made a prediction that seems so quaint given all that's passed in the last four-and-a-half years:

The many would-be candidates for president in 2008 are falling over themselves offering their own proposals. We will soon see a "Giuliani-care" and "Obama-care" to go along with "McCain-care," "Edwards-care," and a totally revamped and remodeled "Hillary-care" from the 1990s.

That's the first real reference to Obamacare in LexisNexis (some stories are incorrectly dated). Andy Martin wrote on his blog Contrarian Commentary, "In a 'bid 'em high' contest with Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, Obama proposes free health care for everyone: Obamacare." Martin's post is dated one day before Healthcare Financial Management's issue date, but magazines typically post-date their issues so they look fresher on the newsstands. The March issue likely came out in early February.


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## bud16415 (Jan 19, 2016)

That&#8217;s all well in good and who cares who named it he indorsed the name in so many words more than once in speeches and is proud of the nickname for the ACA. 

Everyone seems to think this is still about healthcare when it is a smokescreen for a transformation freedom. Most people given the choice of giving up a freedom for having a desired service will willingly give away their freedom. 

The government can charge you for the privilege of driving a car but they can&#8217;t force you to drive or pay for that privilege if you don&#8217;t care to drive. 

I know it seems cruel to say someone without insurance can&#8217;t get services but it&#8217;s  equally as cruel to tell someone with insurance that&#8217;s had insurance their whole life and paid for it themselves they can&#8217;t get a treatment because it&#8217;s not covered in their plan. That&#8217;s just the way life is and that&#8217;s why good people die every day with insurance. Life is not fair. I pay much more and my services I receive are much less just the same as Chris. The reason being we want even distribution of all wealth and services instead of letting the rich people make wealth and redistribute it as they see fit in making jobs.


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## Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

You are correct! I often see myself caught up in the smoke and mirrors and forget the big picture of what is going on.


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## slownsteady (Jan 20, 2016)

> I know it seems cruel to say someone without insurance can&#8217;t get services but it&#8217;s equally as cruel to tell someone with insurance that&#8217;s had insurance their whole life and paid for it themselves they can&#8217;t get a treatment because it&#8217;s not covered in their plan.



Don't forget that the insurance company still calls the shots on each plan and still offers a variety of plans at different levels.

And yes, it is cruel, IMHO. And not equally.


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