# foundation sank



## buffalo (Apr 1, 2015)

Foundation on my garage sank , I'd guess 4-6" . It put step cracks in the a concrete block wall. I want to fix it cheap as its only a storage area mainly , and I have alot of repairs elsewhere. My first step is putting in exterior drain tile as it was needed , water was entering the Garage and I believe this was the cause of the faliure (And a 7' snow srorm)I'm digging out the foundation to below the footer and installing corrigated pipe and stone. Once that's completed I'm thinking about removing half the block wall and redoing it , it has some bad blocks pushed in due to freeze thaw . Looking for advise on block repair.






This is a garage , built behind a garage at some time , 2.5' lower , so a stepped down foundation.










The roof has a poor pitch , 2x6 rafters on a 24"oc with a 20' span. Most of them cracked or


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## buffalo (Apr 1, 2015)

broke. They have been sistered with 2x8s  and shored in the center. I have a structural engineer involved for the house At this point. 











This is 1 pollack , 1 shovel , 2 days : The main pita was shoveling 2' of snow/ice. The dirt remaining agianst the structure is frozen solid for the first foot. I think 1 more day I can get the fo7ndation.






Broken foundation , crack through slab.

[


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## buffalo (Apr 1, 2015)

IMG]http://cdn.houserepairtalk.com/images/3/2/3/2/7/thumb2_2015-04-01-175624-1276.jpg[/IMG]

Block pushing IN from freez/thaw






Step crack due to sinking foundation.

My plan is to excavate and install drain tile on both sides of this garage. I'm looking for advise , if I fix this drainage , should it stop any sinking? If so I'm fine with the slab as is , it's only a storage garage. 

My main objective on this post is what would you do to repair the block?


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## nealtw (Apr 1, 2015)

That's ugly enough. The drain usually can sit on the footing and you should never have to worry about freezing below the footing because it should be below frost level.
So first question, is the footing below frost level. The footing will require some repair.


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## nealtw (Apr 2, 2015)

I suspect you will have to under pin the footing. You will have to dig down in sections to solid ground and below frost level.
This is a good video on how it is down althoiugh he is doing a drop basement floor but you would be doing the same process on the outside.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYYOvAmPhJg[/ame]


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## buffalo (Apr 2, 2015)

all of the ground next to the garage is frozen solid so that's holding me up a bit. I'm guessing the footing is at 3' . Is this sufficient?I'll know more when I can get more done. A pic axe is just blasting ice into my face lol. I do t mind shoveling dirt , what ticks me off is shoveling the snow off the dirt first! It's 60f and sunny today though so maybe that will help.

If I'm understanding the video , they have dug below the foundation to add concrete? Some of the pics look like thier next to it but not under neath it?  It looks like thier making a basement?  I'm hoping I wouldn't have to do the entire length of wall like they are?


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## nealtw (Apr 2, 2015)

If the ground is still frozen it wouldn't sink. I think the footing is on mud that sank under the weight of the snow. Some of it will have to be below the mud and the rest has to be below frost level.
Hopefully you find a footing.


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

I've been reading a bunch on underpining and I don't see any intructions on how to decide how deep to go? The soil is clay which expands and contracts from what I've read.


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

this is where the front garage meets the back garage. The footing is 3'6" from the bottom of the 4"slab , to the bottom of the footing. right when I dug below the footer water came out rather quick from under it. I should probably dig below that level for a drain Tile then? What about reconditioning the block? 

The second garage behind , is 2'7" lower than the main garage , so I'm hoping this footer steps down also.its Deffinatly lower , but I'm not sure by how much yet.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

Any time we do any of that. there is a geo- tec engineer on site to poke the soil with rod and that is about all I know about it. They have a steel rod about 1/2" by 3ft rounded on one end handle on other and it is a matter of how easy they can push it in the ground and then they look at soil types too. On houses, I have seen them dig out 16 ft deep and re-fill with gravel or some times it's a wider deeper footing.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

Evan the worst conditions can be made better with drainage


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

After I dug a small deep hole at the end of the second garage , I found that that footer is even deeper. But I think I'm deciding to demo the structure. I push on the block wall lightly to get out of the pit and it swayed. By gently pushing it I can make it wobble a good inch. I went to the oppizite block wall , same thing. I know with one real good push , I could collapse the wall.

The roof is shot , it's poorly designed even if fixed. The block  walls are shot , the foundation is shot. It sucks to loose space but with all my other projects it has to go. I sank 300$ into it with sistering , I'm willing to cut my losses here.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

Maybe you could save the front half???????


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

This raises more questions. I have a poured pad sitting there , but do I have to demo that or bury it agianst the garage to keep the garage footer deep enough?


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Maybe you could save the front half???????



What are you thinking?


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

I think you are right about keeping the footing deep enough. you would be back to under pinning.


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

Which now has me thinking , the inlaw setup has a walkout basement . I just covered it up with some paneling that way laying around. Boarded up the door with plywood and insulation. is there a footer appropriately deep here? 

Looking at the basement I see some separation of the blocks I have never noticed before , and some cracks on the floor. Nothing nearly as bad as the garage. Could snow load have done this??


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

If it was done properly the footing would be deep in that area, but if it started out as a garage the may not be any foundation there.


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## slownsteady (Apr 7, 2015)

> I'm guessing the footing is at 3' . Is this sufficient?



Frost line here in north NJ is 42". I imagine it would have to be even deeper in Buffalo. Your local building office will have that answer for you.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

If you want to close up that end I do know where you can get the block cheap.:banana:


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

nealtw said:


> If it was done properly the footing would be deep in that area, but if it started out as a garage the may not be any foundation there.



Neil , you been a HUGE help , but I have to say , Im kinda sick of you being right. So it dint take long to find out , the block is on a 4" pad which is on another 4" pad , so it looks to me anyway. I hate to get rid of the "walk out"  , even if I did would back filling be sufficient?  I'd guess no matter what this needs a footer?  What are the odds the rest of the basement has a footer? 

And how did you know this?


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

I suspect the lower four inch part is the footing, does it stick out past the upper slab?


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## buffalo (Apr 7, 2015)

Seems like both pads are flush with one another. The block is set back a bit.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

If it works , what the h***. The house hasn't fallen down but I think I would do away with the door, at least by about 4 ft, waterproof the crap out of it add drainage and back fill. I was temped to say you were lucky as this could have been bad this year, but luck dosn't sound right for you.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

That wouldn't stop yopu from going back and changing it when you have nothing else to think about.


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## slownsteady (Apr 7, 2015)

I think losing the walk-out option on your basement is a big loss. And I suspect you would still need shore up the foundation anyway, so why do it?


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> I think losing the walk-out option on your basement is a big loss. And I suspect you would still need shore up the foundation anyway, so why do it?



An eight inch footing is plenty but after seeing the garage, that could happen here, he could under pin a section and a staircase up to a higher level or under pin the whole area but he just won't have time nor money for it this year.
As he is already working on a new second floor and new roof.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

They use hay to protect fresh concrete from freezing perhaps a dozen bails would protect it for a winter


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## slownsteady (Apr 7, 2015)

nealtw said:


> An eight inch footing is plenty but after seeing the garage, that could happen here, he could under pin a section and a staircase up to a higher level or under pin the whole area but he just won't have time nor money for it this year.
> As he is already working on a new second floor and new roof.



So I have to ask; don't you take care of the foundation first? I can understand a new roof of course. Maybe i just haven't got a grip on the whole story.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> So I have to ask; don't you take care of the foundation first? I can understand a new roof of course. Maybe i just haven't got a grip on the whole story.



No apparent new damage, has done the job for 30 or 40 years. Only checked out of fear. Any repairs or improvement either perm. or temp can be left until just before winter. Normally I would agree foundations come first, but on every job the priorities have to be put in order.


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