# Help with Framing / Insulation



## Sven (Jul 28, 2006)

I decided that it was time to fix up my house.  I have lived in it for a year now and sought out a heloc.  When I started to rip off the paneling in two of the rooms in my house I soon discovered that my house used to be only a dining room, kitchen, bathroom and bedroom.  The house had a second livingroom and sunroom added on as well through the years.  My house was built in 1950 too.  The problem is that there is only that insulation type board nailed to the cinder blocks.  So there is no frame or insulation.  There is aluminum siding on the outside.  So if anyone has any advise or ideas what would be a good and energy efficient fix action, I am all ears.  I would also like to raise the ceilings too.  The roof used to be flat and then they pitched a new roof over the old one so the flat roof is still there.  I think with the proper supports it can be done.

Thanks,

Sven

http://www.houserepairtalk.com/gallery/files/1562-Remodel055.jpg


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## Square Eye (Jul 28, 2006)

I've just never seen anything like that wall in normal residential construction.
In old downtown construction with brick walls (3 bricks wide with no framing),
We would frame up a wall because the old brick was soft.


If I were you, I'd frame it just like you said in your last post. 
You cold mouse and pest-proof the floor to wall connection and insulate with whatever you wanted.
Reflectix and other foil insulation (I think), is a radiant barrier and not a big insulator. 
Don't those bricks get awfully hot in the summer?
Bricks absorb so much heat and hold it for so long. 
If I remember correctly, one of the first things they teach you in HVAC classes is this.
The Egyptians used to roll a huge rock out into the sun early in the morning,
roll it back in just before dark.
The heat absorbed would then keep the house warm all night long.
Bricks work the same way, insulation is necessary between the brick and the interior walls.

Anyway, Yep, I'd frame it, insulate it, and make sure the vapor barrier is between the framing and the living space.


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## inspectorD (Jul 28, 2006)

Contact a contractor for some ideas. Without a picture its hard to give any solutions......
Then ask what we think of the solutions that were mentioned...

I love pics.

Anyone else?


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## Square Eye (Jul 28, 2006)

Ya gotta' clicky on his linky Brian.


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## inspectorD (Jul 28, 2006)

You could use polystyrene  then strap and sheetrock. 
Or you could do some steel studs,2 1/2 inch and insulate. 
This would be easier for running any new wiring.

The roof looks like it could be modified for a cathedral ceiling. You still need some joist connections or a beam to hold the rafters under the ridge area.This keeps the house walls from spreading in the middle section. Talk to your local building official on where to start with some drawings.


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## inspectorD (Jul 28, 2006)

I swear i'm goin senile......

Add some 2 inch styrofoam insulation and re sheetrock the room. As far as the roof I cannot say without seeing the structure and how it attaches to the walls on top.Do the rafters sit on the flat roof or do they attach at the top block sill plate?

Does that help? Thanks Square Eye.....


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## Sven (Jul 29, 2006)

inspectorD said:
			
		

> I swear i'm goin senile......
> 
> Add some 2 inch styrofoam insulation and re sheetrock the room. As far as the roof I cannot say without seeing the structure and how it attaches to the walls on top.Do the rafters sit on the flat roof or do they attach at the top block sill plate?
> 
> Does that help? Thanks Square Eye.....



First I want to say thanks for a reply. By styrofoam do you mean extruded polystyrene / foarm board??  Do you think that I should frame the room in though so I can wire the room with out having to knock out part of the brick from behind, and also should I leave the old insulation board on??  I put in some roof pics to give an idea.  I have 87" ceilings inside right now.  What do you think of refletix / foil insulation??  Does it work very well?

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2049.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2050.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2048.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2047.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2046.jpg
Looking up at wall start of slope and rafters of the flat roof 
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2041.jpg
I found the old door to the house
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/svenarajala/Remodel project/Remodelday2040.jpg
The new living room was framed and insulated... slight improvement


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## Sven (Aug 7, 2006)

I decided to go and get a building engineer to look at the roof to go with a vaulted ceiling.  He said that he could have it all reinforced with cross ties and gussets and that the job would run about 6000 to have it all framed.  Then I would just have to insulate, run electrical and drywall.  My question is the rafters are only 2x6's so what do you guys think would be the most energy efficient insulation??  I was thinking cellulose.  I forgot to ask the builder, but will see what he says next time we speak.

Thanks,

Sven


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## jdougn (Aug 7, 2006)

Sven said:
			
		

> I decided to go and get a building engineer to look at the roof to go with a vaulted ceiling.  He said that he could have it all reinforced with cross ties and gussets and that the job would run about 6000 to have it all framed.  Then I would just have to insulate, run electrical and drywall.  My question is the rafters are only 2x6's so what do you guys think would be the most energy efficient insulation??  I was thinking cellulose.  I forgot to ask the builder, but will see what he says next time we speak.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sven



Hey Sven, I would recommend spray-on cellulose. Fiberglass insulation just lets too much air move through it to transfer hot/cold. If you want to stop air moving through the insulation then spray-on cellulose is the way to go. It uses a binding agent that keeps it from moving around and settling.
My .o2,
Doug


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## inspectorD (Aug 7, 2006)

Check out www.sprayfoam.org.

This will help you to understand better what we are talkin about.

Don't we have some other threads in the insulation forum? Check those out also.


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## Square Eye (Aug 7, 2006)

Insulation forum?


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## inspectorD (Aug 7, 2006)

Do we need one?


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## inspectorD (Aug 7, 2006)

Check out the floors, walls and ceilings posts. Lots of insulation stuff in there.

Whew. 

Komputur iliterate.


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## Sven (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks again for all the helpful insight oh the insulation.  I am now wondering if paying 6 grand for the framing only is to expensive for what seems to be a little bit of work.  I am doing all the demolition, and all they are going to do is add the strength to the rafters.  So does anyone think I am out in left field in this one??  I am going to also install the electrical, insulation, and drywall.


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## Square Eye (Aug 8, 2006)

Sounds high to me.

Some guys around here will frame an entire house for $4.00 sq ft.

That's $8,000.00 for a 2000sqft house.

The market could be very different there. You need to ask around and don't tell any other bidders how much this guy is charging.

Keep in mind that remodeling is much more expensive than building, but $6000.00 for framing a room or two with some rafter/truss work seems rediculous. Does this include any drawings by engineers or architects?


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## Sven (Aug 8, 2006)

He has a contractors license in another state, but is applying for one here in VA.  He is in the military and does structural engineering for his job.  He and his crew do lots of side work around the area.  He was referred to me by a guy at work. There aren't any drawings.  He said it would be about 3 grand in materials.  I think he is just blowing smoke.  I have made up my mind not to go through with him and to get another contractor.  I can't wait till I get my contractor license!!!


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## inspectorD (Aug 9, 2006)

Don't stop at only one price quote. Get 2 or 3 folks out there, some companies are like apples and oranges.

Don't forget to find out what each one includes such as permits, good lumber,cleanup, insurance and timely fashion.


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