# Installing my dishwasher



## farmerjohn1324

I got the countertop off and now need to install the dishwasher.

Three parts:

1. Drain hose. This is easy. I just cut a hole in the cabinet and hook it up to the garbage disposal.

2. Hot water supply. There is a plastic "tee" coming from the hot water line that I'm assuming should go to the dishwasher. I am having trouble getting it off so I can bring it to Home Depot to find the right tube to connect to the dishwasher. It's the kind that you push and it should come off, but it's not.

3. Electrical. I see the white and black wire on the dishwasher. I need to know my options for connecting to the house. Behind the area where the dishwasher is, there is a section of drywall cut out that exposes two 120 volt wire casings that go to outlets and lights in the kitchen. There is also the 220 volt wire that goes to the range. Can I splice into these 120 volt wires? Also, there are two available outlets if I wanted to use a cord whip (?) [a thing that plugs into the outlet with a frayed wire coming out of it that I could connect to the dishwasher]. I would like to hook directly up to the house wiring if possible, but only if it's going to be safe.

I have another unrelated question about the plumbing below the sink. The hot and cold water each enter from PVC pipe. However, the cold supply also has a copper tube going to a clear tube that enters the cold water supply. What is the need for both?

Unfortunately, I cannot upload pictures at the moment.


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## kok328

Use the cord whip and outlet. 
For hit water supply you'll need a quick connect fitting. 
Push in on the hose and push in on the retaining ring then pull the hose out. 
For faucet you can change those out with one piece supply lines.


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## Snoonyb

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I got the countertop off and now need to install the dishwasher.
> 
> 1. Drain hose. This is easy. I just cut a hole in the cabinet and hook it up to the garbage disposal.



The drain hose should enter the sink cabinet near its base, loop up to just under the counter top and then into the disposal. This is known as the high-loop method.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> 2. Hot water supply. There is a plastic "tee" coming from the hot water line that I'm assuming should go to the dishwasher. I am having trouble getting it off so I can bring it to Home Depot to find the right tube to connect to the dishwasher. It's the kind that you push and it should come off, but it's not.



If you do not have a valve at the sink, you have to shut the water off to the whole house to do repairs.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> 3. Electrical. I see the white and black wire on the dishwasher. I need to know my options for connecting to the house. Behind the area where the dishwasher is, there is a section of drywall cut out that exposes two 120 volt wire casings that go to outlets and lights in the kitchen. There is also the 220 volt wire that goes to the range. Can I splice into these 120 volt wires? Also, there are two available outlets if I wanted to use a cord whip (?) [a thing that plugs into the outlet with a frayed wire coming out of it that I could connect to the dishwasher]. I would like to hook directly up to the house wiring if possible, but only if it's going to be safe.



Use an appliance pigtail and an outlet, so you do not have to run out and shut off a breaker that also feeds other outlets.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> I have another unrelated question about the plumbing below the sink. The hot and cold water each enter from PVC pipe. However, the cold supply also has a copper tube going to a clear tube that enters the cold water supply. What is the need for both?



There should also be shut-off valves, (angle stops), for the sink.


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## KULTULZ

Snoonyb said:


> Use an appliance pigtail and an outlet, so you do not have to run out and shut off a breaker that also feeds other outlets.



Just a thought...

If the home was not originally wired for a DW, or possibly the original circuit (old code) was for the DW, GD and possibly the refrigerator, or if unsure altogether, maybe plot an electrical map to see what circuit(s) you can tie into without overloading that circuit. 

Code now calls for a separate 20A circuit for a DW. Have you checked the new DW specs to see how large of a circuit (15A or 20A) it needs? And also, if a circuit board DW, a surge protection outlet should be considered.

All of the above is *IMO* and yours and others mileage may vary...


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## farmerjohn1324

Do you see the tube that branches off the right of the hot water supply? It goes to a white plastic tee with blue valve. Do I need to replace this? I'm having trouble getting it off so I can bring it to Home Depot. Do you know what size/type of tube it needs? Is this the same diameter tube that will connect to the dishwasher?


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## Snoonyb

DW supply are generally 3/8's and I personally would not use plastic for hot water, instead, copper.

The connection is probably full of calcium and will take some working with.


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## farmerjohn1324

The valve that should stop water going to the plastic tee of the dishwasher will not close. It simply won't turn.

Is this something WD-40 will take care of? I've tried grabbing it with pliers and everything.

I can't replace the plastic tee or put on the new dishwasher line if I can't close this, unless I want to turn off water to the whole house.


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## KULTULZ

farmerjohn1324 said:


> The valve that should stop water going to the plastic tee of the dishwasher will not close. It simply won't turn.
> 
> Is this something WD-40 will take care of? I've tried grabbing it with pliers and everything.
> 
> I can't replace the plastic tee or put on the new dishwasher line if I can't close this, unless I want to turn off water to the whole house.



You really need to take all of that apart, install new shut-off valves and run at the minimum a 3/8" copper tubing to the DW.

You are worrying and working yourself to death (IMO).


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## Snoonyb

The valve is also probably full of calcium, which is more prevalent on the hot water side.

Here is a lesson for the future, open the valve all the way, then back it off 1/4 too 1/2 turn and that way you have two ways to turn the valve, and break the obstruction.

Just under the handle there is a nut, called a packing nut, try loosening that slightly before turning the handle.

If that doesn't work, then replace the valve, and so you know, the are available as a single assembly with both 1/2" and 3/8" in one valve body, threaded and compression.


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## farmerjohn1324

I tried closing the valve with a hammer. I ended up breaking the incoming CPVC. Luckily, my water heater has a shut off because I couldn't find the main shutoff for the house.

Any idea where it might be?

I bought new CPVC and a new valve. I'm just waiting for the PVC cement to dry so I can finish hooking everything up.

Hopefully, I can take it from there.


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## Snoonyb

If you are on city water it should be just before it enters the dwelling.


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> If you are on city water it should be just before it enters the dwelling.



I can only find electric and gas.


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## farmerjohn1324

Dishwasher is hooked up fine. Countertop is back on.

The only problems now are:

1. The hot water sink supply hose started leaking and not from the new seal, from just above the connector. I need to replace this, but Home Depot is closed.

2. There's a 5.25" gap between the dishwasher and the closest cabinet unit. I have some board from what I removed, but I will need to build some kind of supporting structure for it because there is nothing to nail it to. Any ideas?


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## farmerjohn1324

Also unrelated. What is this copper tube/plastic tube that is going into or out of the cold water valve?

I don't understand the purpose of it. The cold water comes in from the PVC in the back and goes to the sink and nowhere else, right? Is this plastic/copper going TO or FROM the valve?

Might it go to my refrigerator ice maker, which is on the other side of the room?


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## Snoonyb

farmerjohn1324 said:


> There's a 5.25" gap between the dishwasher and the closest cabinet unit. I have some board from what I removed, but I will need to build some kind of supporting structure for it because there is nothing to nail it to. Any ideas?



Pull the DW out even with the tile, screw a cleat to the side on the sink base, the screws are driven from inside the sink base, for backing and install you new Face Frame filler to it.


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## Snoonyb

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Might it go to my refrigerator ice maker, which is on the other side of the room?



Probably. It appears to be the right size.

Some where there will be a shut-off valve for the water, could be under the house near an underfloor access, could be in the garage near the overhead door.

There is an alternative and It's a "street key", which is a metal "T" with an upside down "U" welded to it. The "U" will fit the water meter shut-off valve.

You can see an example at "home despersdo".


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> Pull the DW out even with the tile, screw a cleat to the side on the sink base, the screws are driven from inside the sink base, for backing and install you new Face Frame filler to it.



Does a cleat look like the pictures here?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cle...vLvPAhWJ4SYKHRGtDd8Q_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=651

I pulled the dishwasher out, but I can't picture the rest.

What is the purpose of the cleat? Is it so that the dishwasher doesn't tip forward when I open the doors? Because that is what is happening.

The sink is on the left side of the dishwasher and the gap is on the right side.


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## farmerjohn1324

When I pull the dishwasher out, it tips forward? What's the way to fix this? Should I anchor the steel frame to the concrete or screw the tabs on the top to the counter?


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## Snoonyb

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Does a cleat look like the pictures here?
> What is the purpose of the cleat? Is it so that the dishwasher doesn't tip forward when I open the doors? Because that is what is happening.



A "cleat," in this instance, is a carpenters term for "backing", and you actually need it in two places; tight behind the lip of the counter top which will allow you to fasten the DW thru the two triangular top attachments brackets and prevent the appliance from tipping forward.

For this a piece of 1X2 will be sufficient.

Use glue, pilot and countersink the screws ONLY until the heads are flush.

The 2nd is as described previously and because the cabinets are prefab, there will be a lip where the face frame of the sink base extends beyond the cabinet box. Just hold it tight against the lip.


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## Speedbump

Unless your replacing an existing Dishwasher, you may need to knock the plug out of the Garbage Disposal for it to drain.


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## DFBonnett

farmerjohn1324 said:


> When I pull the dishwasher out, it tips forward? What's the way to fix this? Should I anchor the steel frame to the concrete or screw the tabs on the top to the counter?



Those two tabs on top get screwed to the underside of the counter.


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## farmerjohn1324

Awesome. Now I just need to find the best way to put a trim board on the right side.

Also, the countertop is slightly higher than it used to be in one corner, but I honestly don't care. It functions. I can't figure out what is preventing it from going down and being even but after all this, I don't care that much.


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## Snoonyb

With some glue, clamps, screws and finish nails you can replicate the appearance of a factory filler and toekick.


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> With some glue, clamps, screws and finish nails you can replicate the appearance of a factory filler and toekick.



I know how to secure the new trim board to the cabinet unit to the right, but not sure how to attach it to the dishwasher side. Obviously, it shouldn't be attached to the actual dishwasher, but maybe I can attach it to the concrete floor and the underside of the counter. I think it's going to be tricky.


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## Snoonyb

You can use a 1X4 for the cabinet cleat and add 2 or 3 brace or construct a ladder type box to attach the trim and a couple of TAPCONS and a cleat on the floor gives you 3 points of attachment, top, side and bottom.

Do not attach it to the appliance.


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## farmerjohn1324

What does a cleat look like?


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## Snoonyb

Its a piece of wood 3/4" thick and 3-1/2" wide, in the case of a 1X4.


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## farmerjohn1324

And how long?


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## Snoonyb

Home desperado stocks it 2 sections, rough lumber, which may be referred to as furring strips, and they are rough, in 8' lengths.

In the finished lumber section in lengths from 6' too 12'.


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## farmerjohn1324

I can use braces on the right side where the cabinet is.

Are you saying I need to anchor a wooden cleat to the concrete floor? Is that what the TAPCON is for?

That is only 2 points of attachment. What is the third?

Should there be something vertically aligned next to the dishwasher? How would I secure that?


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## Snoonyb

The 3rd is the cleat across the top described previously.

A cleat there allows you to adjust the appliance in and out to afford the aesthetics you may want.

Some folks want the appliance shoved all the way in even with the cabinet face frame plane and don't care that the concrete floor is exposed, while others want the front of the appliance door brought out to the same plane as the cabinet doors.


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## farmerjohn1324

Why is my hot water hose to my sink leaking? It is not leaking from the part that screws on, it is leaking from the part just above that. This was the problem with the old hose, so I just bought a brand new one. Same problem.


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## Snoonyb

Just the luck of the draw.


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## nealtw

The handle is on the stem. just behind the handle there is a nut, inside that nut there is a seal and that is there so the water does not leak at the stem. The seal can be replaced.
Turn off the water at the hot water tank or the main. remove the handle remove the nut and replace the packing inside


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> Just the luck of the draw.



Luck of the draw that I bought a hose that leaks in exactly the same place as the old one?


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## farmerjohn1324

nealtw said:


> The handle is on the stem. just behind the handle there is a nut, inside that nut there is a seal and that is there so the water does not leak at the stem. The seal can be replaced.
> Turn off the water at the hot water tank or the main. remove the handle remove the nut and replace the packing inside



It's leaking from the part just above the nut on the hose. Not from the stem.

Why would the seal need to be replaced on a brand new hose?

There are no leaks going to the dishwasher side of things, so can the problem really be the stem?


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## Snoonyb

We have something in common, if it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any.


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## havasu

Seems you are not seated correctly. Is there an extra washer on it? Are you cinching it down enough? Are you using too much teflon tape?


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## farmerjohn1324

havasu said:


> Seems you are not seated correctly. Is there an extra washer on it? Are you cinching it down enough? Are you using too much teflon tape?



There is a 3/8" nut that screws onto the valve. I think I wrapped the tape around once or twice. It is leaking from between the nut and the part above it, which I don't know what to call. A compression fitting? You can see what I'm talking about in the picture. It had the same exact problem with the old hose and the new hose.


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## nealtw

farmerjohn1324 said:


> It's leaking from the part just above the nut on the hose. Not from the stem.
> 
> Why would the seal need to be replaced on a brand new hose?
> 
> There are no leaks going to the dishwasher side of things, so can the problem really be the stem?



I guess I misunderstood the problem


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## nealtw

farmerjohn1324 said:


> It's leaking from the part just above the nut on the hose. Not from the stem.
> 
> Why would the seal need to be replaced on a brand new hose?
> 
> There are no leaks going to the dishwasher side of things, so can the problem really be the stem?



Braided hose has a washer for a seal, no tape needed.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V08DHGEzpSs[/ame]


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## Snoonyb

It's a factory connection, designed by man, ERGO, it will fail, take it back and get another and better luck next time.


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## slownsteady

Pretty sure your leak starts right here. A compression fitting can't work if the tube is stressed to one side. It needs to be square to the connection. It might mean that your tube is too short and therefore pulled too tight. If you have some slack in there, you might be able to adjust the tube so that it loops more at the bottom; that will take the stress off the compression fitting.

Taking a second look; you might be able to reroute the tube over the top of the other valve, which would give you more slack.


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## nealtw

In this video see the little metal tube that should be inside the end of that plastic pipe at about 150
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrqwfoLHkVk[/ame]


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## farmerjohn1324

One last question.

Why does water pool at the bottom of the dishwasher after use?

It's almost an inch deep.


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## nealtw

farmerjohn1324 said:


> One last question.
> 
> Why does water pool at the bottom of the dishwasher after use?



The drain hose does have to have a high loop under the sink or the water in the hose when the pump stops will drain back to the washer.


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## farmerjohn1324

What looks wrong about the way the drain hose is hooked up?


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## Speedbump

Did you punch out the slug in the dishwasher drain fitting like I mentioned earlier?  If not, the dishwasher will not drain.


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## Snoonyb

See post #3.
high loop dishwasher drain hose;https://www.google.com/search?q=hig..._rwe7PAhUk5IMKHbh1BxsQsAQIXw&biw=1280&bih=575


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## nealtw

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What looks wrong about the way the drain hose is hooked up?



If that hose was tied up under the counter, when the pump stops any remaining water will siphon out of the hose and not run back.


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## Snoonyb

Besides which, the DW is a model that does not have a discharge backflow preventer.


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## slownsteady

Drill a new hole at the top of the cabinet wall as close to the counter top as possible and reroute the drain hose (1) up through that hole. This will give you the high loop that you need _*and*_ make more room in the cabinet. Bonus points if you move the supply tube (2) back to the now-empty hole where the drain used to go. Double Bonus points if you drill a new hole for that one too -  towards the back of the cabinet (much more room, less strain on the tube and less chance that it will get knocked loose by squeezing stuff under there).


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## farmerjohn1324

I should get all the bonus points, however...

There's still a pool of water after the dishwasher runs.


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## slownsteady

Do you mean there is still water in the dishwasher?

Good job on the re-routing, BTW


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## Snoonyb

Did you notice the cabinet entry point of all the examples in the link I sent you? This is the general practice and you pull the discharge hose into the sink cabinet, instead of stuffing it back into the DW cabinet.

The residual backflow you are experiencing may be the result the siphoning from the method you used.


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> Did you notice the cabinet entry point of all the examples in the link I sent you? This is the general practice and you pull the discharge hose into the sink cabinet, instead of stuffing it back into the DW cabinet.
> 
> The residual backflow you are experiencing may be the result the siphoning from the method you used.




I did put in into the sink cabinet.

Maybe next time, there won't be water, magically, but I doubt it.

Any other guesses what it could be if all the piping looks good?

I should watch it in action, but I'm too lazy to do that.


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## beachguy005

"I should watch it in action, but I'm too lazy to do that."

With all these good folks trying to help you out, you should really reconsider that attitude.


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## Mastercarpenty

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I'm too lazy to do that.



Sorry but that is not a problem we can fix. In this world you either do whatever it takes yourself, you pay for someone else to do that for you, or you live with the problem toy;re refusing to address correctly along with all the other ensuing problems that will cause. 

Most of the newer DW's gave the 'high loop' for the drain built in; you can see that where the drain hose is routed on the side of the machine. Adding an even higher loop will create back-pressure it's not designed to deal with. You only want one 'high loop' in that drain and then good drainage downstream from there.

Phil


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## Snoonyb

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I did put in into the sink cabinet.
> 
> Maybe next time, there won't be water, magically, but I doubt it.
> 
> Any other guesses what it could be if all the piping looks good?
> 
> I should watch it in action, but I'm too lazy to do that.



Again, "Did you notice the cabinet entry point of all the examples in the link I sent you?" 

It's in post #49.

They enter at the floor of the sink cabinet, not the top, then are looped, *in an adroit loop,* before attaching to the sink drain.

That adroit loop is the siphon break and prevents backflow.


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## Snoonyb

Mastercarpenty said:


> Sorry but that is not a problem we can fix. In this world you either do whatever it takes yourself, you pay for someone else to do that for you, or you live with the problem toy;re refusing to address correctly along with all the other ensuing problems that will cause.
> 
> Most of the newer DW's gave the 'high loop' for the drain built in; you can see that where the drain hose is routed on the side of the machine. Adding an even higher loop will create back-pressure it's not designed to deal with. You only want one 'high loop' in that drain and then good drainage downstream from there.
> 
> Phil



Some models have both supply and discharge backflow devices, I believe MIELE is one.


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## farmerjohn1324

Snoonyb said:


> Again, "Did you notice the cabinet entry point of all the examples in the link I sent you?"
> 
> It's in post #49.
> 
> They enter at the floor of the sink cabinet, not the top, then are looped, *in an adroit loop,* before attaching to the sink drain.
> 
> That adroit loop is the siphon break and prevents backflow.



That is different from what was said in another post that told me to drill at the top of the cabinet.

I think it serves the same purpose, though.

How do I secure the tube to the top of the cabinet?

I shouldn't have said "too lazy," maybe "too busy."


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## Snoonyb

Which was much later in the thred.

Only in part because in the 1st photo of post #53 shows an almost horizontal section of discharge hose instead of an adroit loop, so all the discharge in that section of hose will siphon back into the DW. What you are experiencing.

The discharge hose is attached with either vinyl or metal plumbers tape, 1 or 2 hole straps and short screws.


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