# addition in gaarge



## Will (Jun 10, 2006)

Hey
 I hope this is not only for "diy" this forum. I'm not diy I'm a professional carpenter. I do work for other people. I only post here because I need 'refreshers." T any rate heres a few questions but bear in mind I have quite a bit of experience, been doing it for 6 years on my own.
           Customer has garage attaches to house. Stairs go from house floor level down into garage, about 3 or 4 foot drop. foundation wall is visible, is side of garage, right under house floor level. She wnats stairs moved and new house level floor built out about 11 feet, 2 rooms built on top of this new floor, walls going all the way up to cieling of garage. stairs will enter one of the rooms on the side.
         Is this in all respects the dsame framing Id use for an ordinary outdoor deck? I'd have rim joists haning on 4 by 4 posts rather than wrapping arounf to make corner edege to sheet rock to easitly. (by the way should it be green rock in a garage?). Also what is the fire code for garages?  
                Whats the recommendation for how to attach framing ( whatever I use ) to existing concrete floor? L brakcets and lag screws into drilled concrete? rebar or other bar up into post? adhesive?
         Can I get a refresher on what the maximum lengthe for a joist to run before being supported is? I beleive 8 feet. In this case I assume Id have to go with a beam at about 5 .5 feet in the middle of the deck/floor framing. The ledger board is going to have to bolt into concrete which is kind of a hassle. I assume this would just be drilling into the concrete and attaching with lag screws.
       When you talk about a "fire wall" ( she was mentioning this term) you simply mean fire retardent sheet rock, right?
       There is big steel beam dressed in sheet rock at one edge on the garage ceiling, she wants the oputer wall of theis little 2 room suite to be right up against that. If I can't find a joist to attch to right ther ( for example to attach studs to, corner studs) what would be the recommendation for attaching to this steal beam? Maybe again drilling into it if possible and bolting or screwing? Adhesive?
        I might have a few more refresher questions later.

                                                              Thanks a lot,
                                                                              Will
                                                             Thanks a lot


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## Square Eye (Jun 11, 2006)

Firewall; 5/8 drywall.

I don't waste green board in a garage.

4x4 posts are fine if you nail a 2x6 vertically to catch both rim joists in the corners and the rim joists on the outer walls. I NEVER hang a floor on nails.

Attaching to a drywall covered steel beam? I'd rather see it before I reply, but adhesive will make a bond strong enough for a drywall joint. To support a ceiling, you will need to use a substantial fastener. 

Attaching posts to the floor. I have done all of the things you have mentioned. Drill a post and use rebar for a workbench anchor. Use L brackets for floor framing. 

A girder beam in the center of an 11' wide room?
What size lumber are you using for floor joists? There are rooms in houses all over the country that have a clear span ceiling wider than 11' under an upstairs floor.

I've been doing this since I was 3 or so, carrying tools to Dad. I'm 40 now and I still learn new things regularly. So, 37 years of 2x4s and nails, plywood and tools, trim and paint, lights and wiring, still leave me humbled when I can't make a closet door slide when I thought I was good enough that I didn't need the instructions. We all are slaves to progress, we must be willing to adapt and learn as much as we can to keep up. 

OR

be left behind


InspectorD, what have you got?


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## inspectorD (Jun 11, 2006)

No beam is needed. Floor joists 2x10 can run the 12 feet you need. You said you are 3 or 4 steps off the floor ,you have tons of room. 
Attach the ledger board into the concrete using lead sleeves and 1/2 inch lag bolts . Like this  : . ' . ' . ' :  staggered with 2 on the ends every 16 inchs.I would post down at the ends and center with a 2x4 PT.
At the other end you will  not need a beam. A 2x10 rim joist with a wall under it will work fine. 

Don't use posts, you would need a 2 foot by 12" deep concrete pad under each one.

Sheetrock all walls that separate the house and garage with 5/8 rock on the garage side. Do the fire rated door also. NO openings between the garage and house. None...zip...nada.... 

Steel beam, shoot some hilti steel nails into the wood and some PL4oo glue. The nails will penetrate the beam...no drilling required. Do it all the time. Talk to the sales person about the red loads. 

Get yourself the codecheck books that SQuare Eye talked about...for refreshing your skills on code.

And Will...check out www,JLConline.com. Great info on building for contractors.Also keeps you up to date.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2006)

Hey thanks guys,

          coupla questions. Square eye says 4x4 posts are fine, inspector says they need footings or pads so forget them. Hmmmm. Inspector when you say a 2x10 rim joist with a wall under it, you mean just a 2x4 wall, lining up flush with the edge of the rim joist? So I'd frame out a little short (i.e. short in height long in length) wall 16 on center and simply place it under the rim joist, and do the same thing on the sides? That would sure save some hassle. no need for the rebar and posts and all that crap, just screw the 2x4 bottom plate down with masonry screws and a little adhesive.
       Also the quote:  "Sheetrock all walls that separate the house and garage with 5/8 rock on the garage side. Do the fire rated door also. NO openings between the garage and house. None...zip...nada...." I'm scrtaching my head a little about that. you mean 5/8 drywall on the studs of the wall that connects to the house? but if I have studs going up on that side there will necessaarily be a space between the rooms and house - the studs up against the house wall will be there and then the 5/8 on the wall of the room, the inner side, thats being built. Or do you just mean OPEN spaces? of course the whole thing will be enclosed and connected to the house. You dont mean I should just try to put sheet rock up against the concrete and sheetrock walls theyve already got there do you? or just leave it bare and not even do a stud wall there at all since theres already the house wall?
    That's cool that I don't need to do a beam in the middle.
    Also inspectopr you said youd "post down" the ledger strip with pt 2x4s. does this mean that anything that goes to the floor of the garage should be PT? ie whatever posts and those 2x4 walls you were talking about?
         What are hilti nails? never heard of them.
         Square eye, you say all a fire wall is is 5/8 drywall as opposed to 1/2 or 3/8?
         Is a fire door just basically a metal door as opposed to a wooden one?
         I'm glad I ran into you guys, you're helping me get back up to speed ( I've been in school and *stuff*, not really thinking about it that much). I'll check out that link too.

                                                         Thanks again,
                                                                      Will


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## Square Eye (Jun 15, 2006)

5/8 drywall on the garage side of the wall. From floor to ceiling. No openings for ventilation, plumbing, electrical, or open gaps in the drywall joints. That makes it (by code) a firewall.

There's another thread on this same subject;

http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=695

I hope this helps.


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## inspectorD (Jun 15, 2006)

Check out www.Hilti.com for power fasteners.You can also check to see if you can rent a power fastener gun.
Yes PT wood at areas which contact concrete.
The rest you already answered .Build your walls and joists for the floors. 
As Cramer would say....
Giddiup....


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## Will (Jun 17, 2006)

cool, thanks. Yeah the job is shaping up. Im making some drawings and things.


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## Will (Jun 18, 2006)

"And Will...check out www,JLConline.com. Great info on building for contractors.Also keeps you up to date. 
06-11-2006 06:15 AM "


 Is that comma supposed to be there? www.JlConline. No I guess it isn't. Just tried and it gave me page cannot be displayed. Tried it with the period and it gave me something about sports or golf or some _stuff_. Are you sure you sent me the right link? I'd like to check out the page youre talking about but it doesnt seem to get me to anything related, that link.


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## inspectorD (Jun 18, 2006)

Ok ...www.jlconline.com then also look at www.buildingscience.com both great sites.


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