# Concrete / brick patio against siding - how to fix?



## frankstone (Apr 5, 2015)

Hi there! We bought our house a few months back. One of the main things bugs me is how the pool deck sits above the foundation of the house by about 6", right against the bottom piece of wood siding. There is a little piece of old dilapidated flashing between the concrete/brick and the house. The slope of the deck angles slightly towards the house, so it appears water has been getting in there since the deck was built (way back in the late 70s). Why they installed the pool this high I'll never know!

We'd like to replace the pool deck this year. I've talked to several contractors, and they have all said, 'replace the flashing and pour the new deck up against the siding'. I'm not sure I like that idea, as it seems like it will eventually fail and invite termites. I was wondering if part of the deck could be lowered, but there is only 2' between the house and where the pool bond beam starts, so that doesn't look like an option. Maybe a french drain against the house? What's the best way to fix this?

Do y'all have any suggestions? Thanks so much! 

Here are some photos:


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## nealtw (Apr 5, 2015)

Do you have a crawl space where you can inspect the wood from inside.


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## frankstone (Apr 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Do you have a crawl space where you can inspect the wood from inside.



There is no crawl space in this part of the house, it's on a slab. I could take a few bricks out and see what the damage looks like...


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2015)

Removing a little drywall on the inside for inspection would be easeir to fix.


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## bud16415 (Apr 6, 2015)

Just some thoughts. I think I would remove the first row of brick along the house. Remove the bottom course of siding and replace that with PT after making any repairs. Then build a curb out away from the PT to allow drainage of water running down the siding. The curb for water standing on the deck.  A &#8220;Z&#8221; flashing under the old siding and across and down the PT would work I would think.


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## CallMeVilla (Apr 6, 2015)

WHAT were they thinking???  I don't see flashing to protect your siding at all.  Depending on where you live, I doubt the damage between now and later in the year will be substantial,  You need to remove and replace comprehensively to fix this mess.  A bandaid will be of little help because it has to be a BIG bandaid.  

You have both brick and cement against your siding.  Sure, the first course of brick can be pulled and a slit (or slot) drain system can be installed.  Here are some products to do this:
http://www.kkindia.com/drains_2.html

However, a temporary (less expensive) system could be constructed by removing the brick and installing drain tile (covering the gap with light gravel.  

The cement side of your deck is another bag of worms.  It would require saw cutting a comparable section the length of the wall and installing the drain system of your choice.  This would stop the water intrusion and allow for repairs to the siding, proper flashing, and a new deck.


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2015)

Before we demo the house, what level is the floor slab at, you don't step up to the house do you.


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## frankstone (Apr 6, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> Then build a curb out away from the PT to allow drainage of water running down the siding. The curb for water standing on the deck.  A Z flashing under the old siding and across and down the PT would work I would think.



Thanks for the thoughts. I understand what you're saying except where the curb would be? Also would you put the new deck right up against the new Z channel and PT wood? Thanks


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## bud16415 (Apr 6, 2015)

frankstone said:


> Thanks for the thoughts. I understand what you're saying except where the curb would be? Also would you put the new deck right up against the new Z channel and PT wood? Thanks


  I wouldnt put it up tight or even remove the brick unless you want it gone. Im assuming with the brick you are closer to flush with the door bottom. I was suggesting building a small French drain almost like Villa suggested but to have a curb to discourage the water even to start in it. unless that would cause standing water and in that case you need to remove it all to get a grade going on.


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## frankstone (Apr 6, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> WHAT were they thinking???  I don't see flashing to protect your siding at all.  Depending on where you live, I doubt the damage between now and later in the year will be substantial,  You need to remove and replace comprehensively to fix this mess.  A bandaid will be of little help because it has to be a BIG bandaid.
> 
> You have both brick and cement against your siding.  Sure, the first course of brick can be pulled and a slit (or slot) drain system can be installed.  Here are some products to do this:
> http://www.kkindia.com/drains_2.html
> ...



Thank you for your thoughts! 

Yeah I have no idea why they installed the patio like this! The entire pool deck is 6" too high. There is some flashing against the house but it's falling apart. We are planning on replacing the entire deck as it's mostly in bad shape, so we want to do it rightno band aid solution. We're in the Los Angeles area so not much rain, but I am concerned about termites.

I don't believe a new pool deck can be installed any lower than the current oneso would you suggest removing a small section against the house so that the deck is not right up against the wood? That would leave a small channel between the house and deck where the drain could go. Would you install a drain at existing deck level, or at foundation level?

Foundation level seems like it would protect the wood, but I'm worried that a lowered section would be a tripping hazard (since the pool is only 2' from the house). Deck level would look nicest but I don't know if there is a way to do that without compromising the wood?

Thanks again!


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## frankstone (Apr 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Before we demo the house, what level is the floor slab at, you don't step up to the house do you.



The house slab is right at ground level, no step into the house. There is no door right by the pool deck, it's along side of the house with no doors directly attached. The pool deck appears to be 6" above the house foundation.


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2015)

frankstone said:


> The house slab is right at ground level, no step into the house. There is no door right by the pool deck, it's along side of the house with no doors directly attached. The pool deck appears to be 6" above the house foundation.



Then I will agree withh the boys, I would remove 18" wide and dig a drain trench about 1 foot deep, run a perferated pipe out to a french drain in the yard and then run a solid pipe beside that to ipke up the down spout and extend one or two drains out to the midle of the deck so the new deck can be sloped to that or those drains. Remove the bottom two boards ans see my other post and replace the second board and repour the new consrete at the same level.


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## slownsteady (Apr 6, 2015)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tuf-Tite-36-in-Trench-Drain-with-Gray-Grate-TR1-GRAY/203463476

Just a thought. This could be a perimeter drain around the pool deck, installed flush with deck surface.


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tuf-Tite-36-in-Trench-Drain-with-Gray-Grate-TR1-GRAY/203463476
> 
> Just a thought. This could be a perimeter drain around the pool deck, installed flush with deck surface.



To expensive and a pain to get it right,better to just slope to a central drain.


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## frankstone (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks very much for all of the comments. When we re-do the pool deck we'll certainly look into some sort of drain system along the house.


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## CallMeVilla (Apr 7, 2015)

A number of thoughts ...  Ideally, you want a minimum of 2" clearance (3" preferred) between ground level and the siding.

1.  If there is a rain guttering it will divert roof runoff from the patio, so that can be really important.
2.  You need fall line inside the drain system.  So the depth of the system will be dictated by the fall line you need.
3.  The trip hazard is eliminated if you use a slot drain and it also eliminates the need for a lip to catch water running back toward the house.
4.  The slot drain can be connected to a less expensive drain tile system, so the slots can be used in front of doors.


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## slownsteady (Apr 7, 2015)

CMV: what do you mean by "fall line"?


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## CallMeVilla (Apr 7, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> CMV: what do you mean by "fall line"?



You need an 1/8" per foot to guarantee water flow along the drain line whether it is a slot drain or a weeping tile.  The depth of his excavation will be determined by the slope he will need to insure water is removed from the foundation line.


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## nealtw (Apr 7, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> You need an 1/8" per foot to guarantee water flow along the drain line whether it is a slot drain or a weeping tile.  The depth of his excavation will be determined by the slope he will need to insure water is removed from the foundation line.



yup, that sounds like code. some times not practical like a perimeter drain on a 100 ft wall, do you undermine the footing to install the pipe.

There are a few questions I have heard asked inspectors that insist on sloped perimeter.
1. what is the real drop of a 5" pipe that is layed level?
2. if you take a pipe with elbow on one end and lay it level with the elbo turned up and then dump water in the elbo, how much water is left in the pipe because of poor slope.
The usual here is to lay it level except for the last four feet is raised an inch to incourage flow and we do get a lot of water.


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## CallMeVilla (Apr 8, 2015)

Practically, ANY drain system is better in this situation because it removes water from the siding.  Yes, I quoted code but (practically) this job will work if there is at least some slope to get the water away from the foundation ... then it might level out.  The slot would be along the perimeter and I'd like to seem slope there.


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