# Neighbour trespasses every day



## Jungle (May 31, 2013)

The way the property line is that she parts her car with the wheel about 1" from the property line. Obviously every time she gets out of the car she is on my side of the property. (there is no fence yet.)
The next thing is their shed is also on the property line and the overhang is about 6" over my property.

At first i thought it was a sort of honest mistake, but now i see these people are very cheap and sneaky. It is just plain rude. They park their cars in the drive way then use my drive way to get into their backyard!  The problem is they will have to width their own drive way, is not my problem.
I should to talk to them, but it is not like they don't know what they are doing is wrong... I have a good mind to build a fence and send them the bill before cutting down the roof of their shed. The previous owner also complained about these people. Guess what they are jehovas, i guess love their neighbour has a different meaning for them. More like take from they neighbour.


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## WindowsonWashington (May 31, 2013)

Rules are rules.

If you were to ask the county, I am sure they could make them move or remove the shed.

I would try talking to them first.


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## nealtw (May 31, 2013)

You would likely win every fight if you're right, but there is nothing worse than living beside someone you're fighting with. The trick is to find the right tone when you start the disscusion.
First trick is to make absolutely sure you are right. you would hat to start something just to find you were wrong about where the line was. Even if you have corner pins for your lot, they can be moved or bent, you need a site plan for the neighbourhood so you can check them too. Once you have that proved run a tight bright coloured string along that side or do the whole lot so it doen't look like you were looking for a fight. After a few days just go and tell the you were thinking about a fence and the shed seems to be a problem and judge their mood from there.
If you do build a fence, you had to do this work anyway.


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## CallMeVilla (May 31, 2013)

Check with the city or county about set-back requirements for permanent structures.  This would determine if their shed is in violation or not.  I like Neal's approach because it is subtle but clear.

In law, remember that abandoning your property by creating a pattern and practice of them using it could be a problem ...


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## neilorrick (Jun 1, 2013)

Yes you first check out the rules about permanent structures and find out their shed is illegal or not. After that you inform them about the situation if they didn't agree to remove then take the legal action because it's your right.

new homes melbourne


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## Frank0 (Jun 1, 2013)

Perhaps they need a good talking to, perhaps a bit more...


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## JoeD (Jun 1, 2013)

I would not like to live next door to you. The shed is obviously a problem but complaining because the walk on your property when they exit their car, Get over it.


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## Speedbump (Jun 1, 2013)

Way back when, my Dad's neighbors built a garage right on the property line with the overhang over the line.  The setback was three feet back then.  He didn't pursue it and now, the Township won't do anything about it because it's been there so long.  It has been a lot of years now and the garage looks like it could fall down in a slight wind.


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## oldognewtrick (Jun 1, 2013)

JoeD said:
			
		

> I would not like to live next door to you. The shed is obviously a problem but complaining because the walk on your property when they exit their car, Get over it.



Agreed. My neighbor even cuts the strip of grass between my driveway and lot line if he cuts first.


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## oldognewtrick (Jun 1, 2013)

Speedbump said:
			
		

> Way back when, my Dad's neighbors built a garage right on the property line with the overhang over the line.  The setback was three feet back then.  He didn't pursue it and now, the Township won't do anything about it because it's been there so long.  It has been a lot of years now and the garage looks like it could fall down in a slight wind.



Maybe it might need a lil persuasion in the middle of some windy nite.


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## Jungle (Jun 2, 2013)

Well i put a couple of 2x6's along the proposed fence line. Now she parks her car about 10" away from it but still must step over it to get out of her car. I guess it is fence time.

I'm going to put some poly on the side of the shed and the new fence, that should cause it to rot pretty quickly.
What do you think about these composite stuff for the fence? Will it fade to pink? I was going to frame it with wood.






 Another option is some metal roofing i found on kijij, looks a bit strange profile for a fence. Probably better no?




I'd like it look like this:


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## Blue Jay (Jun 2, 2013)

I would check to make sure you can put the fence right on the property line. Also how are you going to put the finished side of the fence to them without being on their property?


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## luckywinks (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm in the same boat as you and feel similarly.  I recently converted my ugly lawn to a conservation garden though a program with the city.  I didn't mind so much then but when they park their cars and big trucks and step out into my garden, now I'm angry,  They simply need to be more mindful of their space and provide enough room for their vehicles and passenger's exit.  I never granted them an easement over my front lawn! 

My solution is to build a 3-4' cinderblock wall along the driveway which is very customary for our area -- many homes have this type of separation.  Our city allows this height at this area and I plan to have this done as soon as I can afford.  In the meantime I've thought about stacking a few of these blocks  in the area where the "issue" is really a problem to put them on a visual notice a wall is coming soon.  In this way they will see the beginning of some planned construction and take notice and hopefully begin to make some adjustments.    I'd like to see how it might look anyhow and live with it before it's permanent fixed into place.

I see my neighbors from time to time and have light chit chat and have had to ask them previously about moving their trash cans off our shared property line outside my bedroom window and to move behind a gate.  They seem to enjoy leaving their trash in street view all week long and it smells of dog feces as well.  They were kind enough to move but refused to relocate behind a gate, thus continuing to violate a local code.  I don't want any trouble with these neighbors but I do want live among people who follow the laws and are generally thoughtful and respectable folk.

I hope you can find a way to create a boundary that respects each other's properties in a friendly manner.  I also sunk 2 x 4 posts in concrete every few feet and installed plants and have plans to attach some trellis at a future point on this same neighbor side. I may also add cinderblock here but am not certain just yet but this also puts them on notice.  This is where they used to park their trash bins back towards the gate.  .


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## Jungle (Jul 1, 2013)

Part of the problem is that i have big pine tree in front of the house, so you need a tent or something pine sap will hit your car etc.  Which i have for my car.
So if put the fence there she will be forced to park in the front under the tree as well.


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## nealtw (Jul 2, 2013)

Where I live they would be allowed to trim any of the tree that was over their property.


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## mudmixer (Jul 2, 2013)

If you are building a spite fence, make sure you know exactly where the property line is and that may require a survey unless undisturbed iron pins are found.

Do not place the fence directly on the property line since the other side then owns half of the fence. - Offset the fence slightly.

Keep it on your property and do not disturb the adjoining property and you may not be allowed to maintain the other side, so treat it with stain/preservative before erection.

Check with your local municipality to determine which side should be exposed ("good neighbor policy").

When is comes to local disputes, the property line can affect what can be done without penalty.

Also, keep your volume down on the music.

Dick


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## Jungle (Jul 4, 2013)

Well i put sinder block and old wood on top of it to make a mini fence. A bunch came over on the weekend and they use my drive and front of my house as they like. I figure this is the best way since it is not permanent yet. I also wonder if i put the fence if they would damage it some how with their truck doors. So i think this is a good start.
The property line is not hard to see because they built a fence themselves in the backyard and it follows the other neighbours, i also have the property map.


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## Jungle (Jul 5, 2013)

This is getting stranger.
 I talked to the women's daughter and she is claiming some like 30 years ago there was garage there etc.
So i decided to measure the distance between the houses, she is already getting 2 extra feet. Is it fair to assume the property line might have been right between the two house equal distance? Well that was my thought so i measured the frontage, we both have 50ft. This is maybe the best way is to measure our frontage? 
From what i can tell the property line is over even further, the shed is maybe 1ft over the property line.
It looks the back neighbour8  is losing 1-2 ft too.  I think the best thing is complain to the city and have them look  into the shed and decide where the property lines is.  They will order the building removed, that would be the only way unless she agrees. That way it will be settled.
See 384, then 8 the fence continue the same line. I was going by 8's fence, so in conclusion the property line must be in the exact middle of the driveways.


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## mudmixer (Jul 5, 2013)

Jungle -

I suggest you get a survey to determine the actual property corners.

Since the neighbor knows there was a garage there in the 1970's, you could have lost the property under the shed (and possibly more) based on the concept of "Eminent Domain" if it was allowed to exist long enough without being contested. All it could take is a photo with some background identification as evidence the garage existed

My mother found out her lake home was about 5' on the neighbors property for years. The neighbor found out his was about 6' on his other neighbors property, and so on down the lake shore (some with multiple lots). The problem came from assuming the dividing property lines were perpendicular to the pins on the road, but all the lots on that side of the lake had the same problem. Since about 15 of the 20 landowners there relatives they had a new survey to be done and everyone agreed and signed with what the surveyor suggested as a common solution. Everyone was worried about the complications  when someone tried to sell or people started dying and the kids could inherit a big mess and a lot of hard feelings.

Dick


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## nealtw (Jul 5, 2013)

"Eminent Domain" ussually only counts when the owner was aware and took no steps to stop it. Just saw that some guy has to remove his inground pool that a preveouse owner installed and the new neighbour wants his land back.
The city won't resolve this they will just tell you to get a survey then if it is on your property, they will tell you to settle it your self or go to court.
The distance between houses can't be trusted, the code would tell you the min. distance the house can be from the line, if you new what the code was at the time the houses were built and even then they could be out an inch.
You will need a (certified survey) before you get to excited about anything. evan the pins if you could find them, can't be trusted.


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 5, 2013)

Are you truly ready for the fight that is brewing??

Actually, "eminent domain" is an act by government to take your property.  What y'all are discussing "adverse possession."  This is where title to another's real property can be acquired without compensation, by holding the property in a way that conflicts with the true owner's rights for a specified period. That specified time is set by State law.  An example might be "squatter's rights" or the use of your property for many years without you taking action.

You can identify the property line by locating the surveyor's marker which is usually placed near the sidewalk by the street to identify the property line.


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## mudmixer (Jul 5, 2013)

Villa -

You are absolutely correct as "Adverse Possession" being the correct term and I just grabbed the wrong term and started it all.

That portion of the law depends on the individual state.

In my mother's case the corner pins on the road were generally found or could be re-set. The new survey was the surveyors attempt to define the individual lot lines reflecting the owners feelings that were shown by the location of homes and used the established identified pins as a starting point. As I recall, lake lots in that state included a slice of land going to the center of of the lake, so the historic high water is points to use for general reference and no legal points were set. - Especially for locating docks, lifts, etc. that are temporary structures.

Property gets very complicated when dealing the the old "metes and bounds" method that describes a parcel by things like trees, large rocks and streams that could be destroyed over the years and also including compass bearings that get warped locally by some rock formations.

Dick


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## Jungle (Jul 5, 2013)

What i understand in this province there is nothing like that. The property line is what it is. 

 I think if i contact the city they check it out and order take down of the shed if over the property line. Like any illegal structure built without permit. What i can tell it maybe just the 5" overhand this over, not the actual shed.
Anyways i measured the front and back of both our lots because they are the same size, 50' x 150'. I figured this is fairly accurate and fair? 50' of frontage. I checked three times sure enough 50' checked from both the other neighbours property fences along the tarmac. The 50' lands right in the middle of their drive way. Another 1' over as seen in the picture. So how can anyone argue with that?


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## nealtw (Jul 5, 2013)

I agree that the city might tell them to remove the overhang but the set backs maybe different than the set back for houses but they will require a survey and they won't pay for it. If they make a ruling in your favor it will still be up to you to inforce it legally. Call the city.


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## Jungle (Jul 7, 2013)

I talk to the old guy at 386. He says that two brother got the land and spilt in half and built the houses. The same family build all these cord wood houses start with 8 in 1943, then 386, 388, then me 387 in 1949. So there was a garage before where the shed is now that was built there by the two brothers presumably to facilitate construction of the houses.


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## nealtw (Jul 7, 2013)

If a building was there when the property was divided, it might be on the city survey drawing.


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## elbo (Jul 7, 2013)

In favor of getting a new survey is a reason no one has mentioned yet "liability " If your neighbor gets hurt on your property, even if she is trespassing, you are liable for her damages. If I were in your shoes, I would get a new survey and install a fence, preferably by a ligitimate fencing company, that will be knowledgeable of all the rules. I would further check with your insurance company


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## Drywallinfo (Jul 7, 2013)

I own a narrow strip of land across the highway - it butts up to my neighbor's land. I could camp out on it or insist my neighbor not use it, but all it would do is create a lot of misery for me in the long run. 

If they are not damaging your property, my advice would be to let it go. You might consider living in country, but as I have found out, these kind of things still can happen.


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## mudmixer (Jul 7, 2013)

Nothing more entertaining than a spite fence or disputed property line when all the background is not revealed.

Dick


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 7, 2013)

To purchase the house today, a title search must be conducted which would include a complete parcel map.  THAT map is available from any title insurance company for a fee.  It might be a confusing situation or it might be quite simple.

The main point is that abandoning the land by letting your nrighbors "squat" on it for years could mean you have lost your rights to it.  Get your facts FIRST.  Then formulate a plan that will guarantee ownership and a clear title.


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## elbo (Jul 8, 2013)

gosh villa, if you were that close to my house to take a photo, why didn't you stop in for a beer ?


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 8, 2013)

elbo said:


> gosh villa, if you were that close to my house to take a photo, why didn't you stop in for a beer ?



I love how you've fixed the place up...:banana:


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## elbo (Jul 9, 2013)

the house looks like it was designed by Salvatore Dali, It does have good ventilation though


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## homemylife (Jul 12, 2013)

Having neighbors walking on your property doesn't sound like a huge problem. Good luck talking to your neighbors about it without sounding like a pain in the ***.


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## Jungle (Jul 29, 2013)

Well the red neck son came along yesterday and knocked down the temp fence. I went out and had a few words with him which was a bad idea because he just looks violent, he drives a big truck which is the problem, 'i come here to pick up my kids and i can't even get out of my truck!'
Fortunately i know how to deal with these guys in my liberal way.  But he was getting aggressive, i think he some issues. They haven't done any maintenance on their house in years. 
So i guess i will have to get the survey done. I don't see why it is necessary when you can see the metal stakes at least at the neighbours lots and measure from there? Plus the property maps should be enough. Seems like a waste of $500. I guess it will be worth it, i wonder if they will move their shed if get the survey? You can see why i need a fence with their animal son roaming around. I can tell they are all just waiting to sell the house when the old women passes on. Someone came out and put the fence back up hour later.


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## floatr (Aug 3, 2013)

This isnt as major but still a factor ,id Set up some security cameras in open obvious spots...or at least dummy cameras,signs,etc you'd be surprised  how it hold back attempts if one feels they are being recorded..you property/your right for safety.
Especially after a new fence is up on your property..
Fences are great-got a 45 panel vinyl one!


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## scoachby (Dec 14, 2013)

Hello,

If you were to ask the county, I am sure they could make them move or remove the shed.

I would try talking to them first.


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## Wuzzat? (Dec 14, 2013)

I used a rental metal detector to find the iron posts at my property corners, which after 50 years were 2" below the surface.  Look by power poles which feed two adjacent houses.
BTW, the county had two surveys for my property and only one was right.  The one given us with the deed was wrong.

IIRC, the books on Neighbor Law say, send your neighbors a letter explaining your position and asking them to make this right, return receipt requested.

Our neighbors to the east are jerks so we put up a fence so the east surface of the fence is just inside our property line.


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## BridgeMan (Dec 14, 2013)

One of the worst things about having neighbors (neighbours) is that we can't pick them.

But here's an ice-breaker to try on the bully son:  "Is it true that guys with big trucks always have little weenies?"


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## Jungle (Mar 13, 2014)

Well it turned out it was the grandson who stole the new survey pins. I caught him dumping snow on my driveway. Looks like the situation is cleared up because the sister didn't know about it....basically they are scammers.
The real situation is that the property line goes beside their house, they have no drive way. But Stan was a nice *dumb* guy 30 years ago and allowed them to share the drive way for years, then 5-10 years ago they build a fence 'for their dogs' and a 'little shed where the garage used to be.' The problem is the shed now is legal squat, 5 feet over! If it wasn't for the shed i would get the land. So they say Stan 'gave them property.' 
At least we all understand that have already stolen 5' of driveway, so much that i can't use the driveway beside my house - but they can! As with most things stan did to this house it was done wrong, like giving away his driveway.

I still have to put the fence up in the spring. It ill be interesting because part of it will be 3 inches on the side of their wood shed, which will cause problem with snow and run off in few years - too bad. I will have to put a metal fence because they are likely to damage a wooden one.
I wonder if the shed rots away in 5 years and they sell the property, i can slide the fence over again and the new owners will be clueless.


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## slownsteady (Mar 13, 2014)

So who's paying the property tax on that "overlapping" land?


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## zannej (Dec 26, 2014)

Here's the thing about squatter's rights-- they only apply if the property is abandoned and you are not paying taxes on it. If Stan is the guy who sold you the property and you were charged the full value and are paying taxes on that part of the property as it is legally divided in the city's records, then it should still be yours. At least that is my understanding of it. This is an issue where a lawyer or some sort of legal advice about property disputes would come in handy.

My question is, do you really need the land that badly that its worth causing so much grief? Are the neighbors generally rude enough to you that you would want to make things harder for them?

You mentioned that someone put the knocked over fence back up-- that sounds like someone on their end was being respectful to you. Perhaps you could open up a polite dialog with them about it. 

I could be wrong, but I don't know if their claim that this Stan person just gave them some property is legal or can hold up in court.

I know you've already posted another thread that the city ignored your concerns about the shed and instead are now going after you because the neighbors claimed you were doing some illegal construction. That is just one of the problems that comes with antagonizing neighbors.

I guess this is a cautionary tale about what happens when you start disputes with your neighbors.


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## frodo (Dec 26, 2014)

to keep a car off your property,  this is the type of fence you need to install



only,  change it up.   install 1 [one]  rail of fence  18"  off the ground
 if he parks close to it,  he cant open door.   but,  it is short enough not to block your view



  shed caught on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!  call 911 quick!!!!


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## beachguy005 (Dec 26, 2014)

Squatters rights....aka, Adverse Possession, isn't about abandoned property.  It's about someone using it in an open and continuous manner for a length of time. For example, if your neighbor parked their car or had a fence or a shed on piece of property, and used that property continually for a certain amount of time, which varies by State, and it turns out to be yours, they can file to claim that property by adverse possession.  
It doesn't matter what your deed says or if you paid the taxes on it.
You may think that your property rights are absolute but they're not.  Consider that if your house was partially built on your neighbors property 20 years ago and his survey revealed the error, would you want him demanding you move your house?  In that case the law protects you.
You can't just plant a flag or a fence, say this is my property and you can't cross it.  Your deed could be wrong.  Your neighbors could force the issue into court or your threat of bringing it to court may just loosen their grip.  You need an actual survey first.  If you don't want to fight in court an agreement, in writing, with the neighbors, for them to continue to use it until the existing owner dies, they sell the property or move.  Then it reverts back to your complete control.


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## CallMeVilla (Dec 26, 2014)

OK, this is getting deep in the weeds ... but you need to take overt steps to claim the property to counteract adverse possession.  A fence is only one way.  A NO TRESPASSING sign on the legal property line can also establish fair warning to the trespasser.  If they then reoccupy the land it can be termed a "hostile" , "open" and "notorious" taking of your land.  Review this writeup in a respect legal site.  You might need an attorney to simply send a letter to the neighbor (which would be cheap).

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/adverse-possession-trespassers-become-owners-46934.html

Can't wait the see this food fight!


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## frodo (Dec 27, 2014)

Jungle said:


> Well the red neck son came along yesterday and knocked down the temp fence. I went out and had a few words with him which was a bad idea because he just looks violent, he drives a big truck which is the problem, 'i come here to pick up my kids and i can't even get out of my truck!'
> Fortunately i know how to deal with these guys in my liberal way.  But he was getting aggressive, i think he some issues. They haven't done any maintenance on their house in years.
> So i guess i will have to get the survey done. I don't see why it is necessary when you can see the metal stakes at least at the neighbours lots and measure from there? Plus the property maps should be enough. Seems like a waste of $500. I guess it will be worth it, i wonder if they will move their shed if get the survey? You can see why i need a fence with their animal son roaming around. I can tell they are all just waiting to sell the house when the old women passes on. Someone came out and put the fence back up hour later.






SO?????  whatever happened on this?  

in an answer to this old post.

Brother are you naive !    you get a certified survey.  because property pins can move in the middle of the night.  

a certified survey stops all the BS  he said she said, mom said and grand pa had a verbal deal.

in the real world,  if it is not wrote down  and witnessed,  it did not happen


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## zannej (Dec 27, 2014)

CallMeVilla, I see in your link that it referenced property tax being paid on the land. One of the main reasons that adverse possession exists is to make sure that the government gets paid the property tax by someone.

I do wonder if the property can be taken back over by Jungle because it was originally the land owned by the seller-- that is IF the neighbors didn't ever file paperwork to legally claim the land. It seems to me that one of the things appeared to be that they had to have filed paperwork on it. I think this would be a time for pre-emptive strike where Jungle would have to beat them to the court to claim the land somehow and have a lawyer inform them that they need to move their shed and such (after an official survey is done to show the true property line).


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## beachguy005 (Dec 27, 2014)

Adverse possession really has nothing to do with taxes being collected.  Historically it was because Governments believed that land was better off being used rather than sitting unused. That's about the opposite of today's thinking, where they want open space.
The laws vary state to state.  They used to close and clear everyone off of the Boston Common one day a year to prevent the "continuous" use aspect of that law. 
Just posting a no trespass sign is irrelevant if the neighbor has already met the standards for a legitimate claim.


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## frodo (Dec 27, 2014)

I dont think believe a building overhang will qualify for adverse possession.  in reality he is not 

using the land.   his eve of the building is over it.

what he needs to do,  is get the land surveyed.    then go from their.

right now.  this is all just he said she said till its surveyed


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