# Which is the best refrigerator?



## Daniel Breiter (Jan 10, 2021)

If you were to have one refrigerator, which are you going to use? Digital inverter or Linear compressor?


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2021)

Welcome to the forum. 

Where I retired from we made refrigerators up to 1958 when the business moved out of town. I retired a couple years ago and there were still units made there running 24-7 keeping the guys lunches cold. Too many to count. 

I know for a fact they were never recharged or worked on in any way during the 43 years I was there. That says a lot for the ability of a sealed piston system. 

As to new units built today your guess is as good as mine.


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## zannej (Jan 10, 2021)

I wish I could help here but I have absolutely no clue. I'm not familiar with those cooling methods. I'm interested to learn more if people have feedback though.


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2021)

zannej said:


> I wish I could help here but I have absolutely no clue. I'm not familiar with those cooling methods. I'm interested to learn more if people have feedback though.


The one old style turns on and off like your furnace. The new ones run at different speeds trying to think ahead. 

Little bit like adding a NEST T-stat it should save energy running more but at a slower rate. 

Everything is getting smarter even the fridge. More to go wrong and more to fix most of the time.


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2021)

I did have my fridge bulb go the other day and I didn't have a fridge bulb so I put in a LED with lower wattage but more lumens. Wow is my fridge bright now. I have no idea if it will last but we will find out.


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## Flyover (Jan 13, 2021)

I was hoping this was going to be about layout: side by side vs. traditional freezer-over-fridge, etc. For whatever it's worth, I am not a fan of side-by-side. It feels like way less fits in them. When they have water/ice dispensers and stuff in the freezer door that apparatus takes up a bunch of freezer space. Frozen pizzas definitely don't fit in them either.


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## rbm328 (Jan 14, 2021)

Stay away from LG and ESPECIALLY Samsung!  Many, Many problems!  
We bought a Whirlpool French Door, *36-inch Wide French Door Refrigerator - 25 cu. ft - WRF555SDFZ*
The ratings on it were excellent, and like Flyover said, a SxS prohibits you from putting in wide items.  This is WIDE AND DEEP!  We especially like
the meat/cheese drawer.  Price wise, its <$2000.
Check it out.  We bought ours at Lowes.  BTW, they're Made in America!!


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 14, 2021)

Prices must be coming down on the 3 door French door fridges... that 3rd door used to add another $1,000 to a $1,000-1500 fridge... yeah, just 'marketing', doesn't really cost that much to do it... 

When I go to a side by side, to avoid the narrowness, I will get the biggest available... a 29 or 30 cubic foot if still available... and likely a Whirlpool since made around here and usually most dependable... but my old Montgomery Wards/Admiral fridge from the 1970's is still working fine... but nowhere's near as efficient as the new ones... but maybe much more reliable... 

In the over/under door models, I think the top freezer is more efficient, since some of the freezer cold just drops down to cool the refrigerator... whereas the bottom freezer models have trouble getting cold to go up... the old 'heat rises'...


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## Flyover (Jan 14, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> In the over/under door models, I think the top freezer is more efficient, since some of the freezer cold just drops down to cool the refrigerator... whereas the bottom freezer models have trouble getting cold to go up... the old 'heat rises'...


That's what I always figured too. Putting the freezer on the bottom seems like an extravagance, fighting an uphill battle against physics. But maybe I'm wrong and it's the other way around, and the cold air "pools" in the freezer so the freezer doesn't have to work as hard?


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## 68bucks (Jan 14, 2021)

We have had a sub-zero for 5 years now, bottom freezer. Love it. It has separate compressors for the freezer and the fridge. It's American made also. They are expensive but great quality. I'm not sure what technology it has relative to the OP.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 14, 2021)

Flyover said:


> the cold air "pools" in the freezer so the freezer doesn't have to work as hard?



That's what I figured was part of the problem with bottom freezer, getting a uniform temp in the fridge part, too warm at the top, freezing things at the bottom...


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 14, 2021)

68bucks said:


> We have had a sub-zero for 5 years now, bottom freezer. Love it. It has separate compressors for the freezer and the fridge. They are expensive



LOL! I rest my case... an overly expensive complicated solution to a simple problem... although I can see shorter people or people with certain health problems preferring the bottom freezer... 

And if the bottom freezer is in the form of a pullout drawer, you get the same problems as a deep freeze chest, food on the bottom is forgotten about or a pain to get to and sits down there for years or even decades... 

In the 2 door over/under models, I'd estimate the top freezer is around 95% or more of sales...


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## 68bucks (Jan 14, 2021)

We had a bottom freezer on the last fridge. We really like the bottom freezer. We are both on the taller side and it always sucked getting on your knees to see what was in the back on the lower shelves. So I guess we like the upper fridge actually. We have a deep freezer so we only have minimal stuff in the fridge freezer. I didn't have any big issues with the last one, it was a Whirlpool French door bottom freezer. 

One thing with the separate compressors is the fridge is controlled separately so you don't get that real cold temp in the fridge compartment. In a standard fridge the freezer controls the compressor and the fridge is managed by directing the cold air flow. That leads to more uneven cooling. It's more of a commercial unit.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 14, 2021)

On my top freezer, the coldest air entering the fridge is directed to the fresh meat drawer to keep it 30-32 degrees and then the rest of the fridge is around 35 degrees to prevent freezing liquids...


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## MrMiz (Jan 14, 2021)

ice makers.... I hate ice makers.... I love ice. I've replace the ice maker components in my currently whirlpool fridge 3 times and this last time it fried something on the main board so now I've got a perfectly fine fridge that can't make ice. (Going on year 5)
The model before I replaced the ice maker twice before it the whole fridge died 3 days before Thanksgiving. It was also a whirlpool. I love the whirlpool fridges but I hate their icemakers. (Was 7 years I think.)


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 14, 2021)

Yeah, I get about a year and a half out of icemakers....


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## Sparky617 (Jan 14, 2021)

The thing I really dislike about SxS, and I've had two of them, is the narrowness of them.  Not the pizza box issue, but in the fridge section stuff is always behind something that you have to move to get at.  Not a problem with the bottom freezer models.  At my first house I bought a French door bottom freezer model, this was in 1985.  I really liked it, at the time they hadn't come up with the drawer concept.  I'm getting ready this year to replace our 21 year old Whirlpool SxS in this house, and I'm looking at a French door, bottom freezer drawer model.  I don't think the physics problem of cold air sinking is really a problem that they haven't engineered around.


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## zannej (Jan 14, 2021)

I prefer the side by side fridges because I have a bad back and hate bending for the drawer. My friend has one with the freezer drawer and I have a hard time getting the drawer to open. It gets stuck sometimes. There is also the bending part. Maybe in the future they will have a kind that opens with a button and raises up for people who have trouble bending.


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## Flyover (Jan 15, 2021)

Kitchens are typically designed with a gap in the counter, or a place along a wall, where the fridge is supposed to go. This kind of forces the people who make fridges to keep making them more or less the way they have been. I imagine there are some potential fridge concepts that would be better for people with back issues and other impairments (or being really tall, for that matter) without sacrificing engineering integrity/simplicity, but those fridges can't be mass-produced because they wouldn't fit into the places where kitchens are currently designed to accommodate fridges.

Same is true for lots of consumer goods unfortunately: we're locked into one format by the other stuff around it.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 15, 2021)

rbm328 said:


> Stay away from LG and ESPECIALLY Samsung!  Many, Many problems!
> We bought a Whirlpool French Door, *36-inch Wide French Door Refrigerator - 25 cu. ft - WRF555SDFZ*
> The ratings on it were excellent, and like Flyover said, a SxS prohibits you from putting in wide items.  This is WIDE AND DEEP!  We especially like
> the meat/cheese drawer.  Price wise, its <$2000.
> Check it out.  We bought ours at Lowes.  BTW, they're Made in America!!



Not defending LG at all, but my LG fridge is the only thing that lasted between that, the washer / dryer and dishwasher (2014). There's a lawsuit for LG fridges, but mine isn't one. 

As far as Whirlpool being made in America, they put them together in America, and put the sticker on in America. It's 100% China. I don't know about the fridge, but I have a Whirlpool Washer / Dryer and Maytag Dishwasher (2020) They are all worthless pieces of garbage. 

Every major brand of appliance is garbage thanks to "Energy Star".


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## Flyover (Jan 15, 2021)

I've got a Whirlpool washer/dryer and at my last house a Whirlpool (or related brand) fridge, dishwasher, and microwave. They were all fine. Currently I have a Samsung dishwasher and although it is amusing because it plays a little song when it finishes, it is confusing to operate and does not clean well.


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## Eddie_T (Jan 15, 2021)

Flyover said:


> Kitchens are typically designed with a gap in the counter, or a place along a wall, where the fridge is supposed to go.


I know what you mean. I built my own house and made the gap (height and width) to fit my fridge, I've replaced it once but had to carry measurements with me.


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## 68bucks (Jan 16, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Not defending LG at all, but my LG fridge is the only thing that lasted between that, the washer / dryer and dishwasher (2014). There's a lawsuit for LG fridges, but mine isn't one.
> 
> As far as Whirlpool being made in America, they put them together in America, and put the sticker on in America. It's 100% China. I don't know about the fridge, but I have a Whirlpool Washer / Dryer and Maytag Dishwasher (2020) They are all worthless pieces of garbage.
> 
> Every major brand of appliance is garbage thanks to "Energy Star".


Whirlpool makes washers at a huge plant in Clyde, OH. They make almost all the parts for them there. It's only an hour or so from my home and I know a couple people that have worked there. I don't know that energy star has cheapened them but I do believe that companies have designed them to be made from a lot more plastic parts to keep the cost down and consequently they don't last 30 years any more. You sell more that way too.


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## Flyover (Jan 16, 2021)

One good thing at least is the mechanical components of these appliances are usually simple enough to DIY repair, and the parts aren't horribly expensive. In my experience the easiest thing to fix is a drying machine, followed perhaps by a dishwasher. I don't have much experience fixing the mechanical components of fridges or washing machines but I can't imagine they're crazy hard. So, if you're willing to spend ~$10 to $80 on parts and follow along to a Youtube video once every several years, the machines can last a long time.


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## Eddie_T (Jan 16, 2021)

I liked the old Whirlpool ( and Kenmore) washing machines. THe most common failure was the wig-wag or a water solenoid. Plus they did a good job of washing and rinsing. I had rather have clean clothes than save water.

I have a Whirlpool double oven that is 47 yrs old. I think I have replaced each element a couple of times. It has timer problems the buzzer has to have a rubber band to hold it off and the automatic timer (which I don't use) has a mind of its own and sometimes takes a week or more to get it to reset and hold. However I do not want an oven with circuit boards as they are prone to failure and expensive repair. I just need to open mine up do a bit of lead clipping and/or rewiring.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 17, 2021)

68bucks said:


> Whirlpool makes washers at a huge plant in Clyde, OH. They make almost all the parts for them there. It's only an hour or so from my home and I know a couple people that have worked there. I don't know that energy star has cheapened them but I do believe that companies have designed them to be made from a lot more plastic parts to keep the cost down and consequently they don't last 30 years any more. You sell more that way too.



I almost refuse to believe that because in my mind I don't believe that Americans could make such absolute utter junk.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 17, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> I liked the old Whirlpool ( and Kenmore) washing machines. THe most common failure was the wig-wag or a water solenoid. Plus they did a good job of washing and rinsing. I had rather have clean clothes than save water.
> 
> I have a Whirlpool double oven that is 47 yrs old. I think I have replaced each element a couple of times. It has timer problems the buzzer has to have a rubber band to hold it off and the automatic timer (which I don't use) has a mind of its own and sometimes takes a week or more to get it to reset and hold. However I do not want an oven with circuit boards as they are prone to failure and expensive repair. I just need to open mine up do a bit of lead clipping and/or rewiring.



i would keep that forever.


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## zannej (Jan 17, 2021)

Flyover, I think they do make some non-standard types but they are incredibly expensive. Viking and SubZero make huge fridges in different styles but I've seen prices over $10k. One model we looked at was $15k. Waaay more than I would want to spend on the entire kitchen much less a single appliance.

I think my current fridge is a Kenmore but I'm not sure. Could be confusing it with the upright freezer. We have a 2nd fridge that I unplugged. I took everything out of it after the hurricane took power out but I never scrubbed all the flies out of it & it was our old fridge we were planning to discard eventually. I might see if I can get it down to the workshop to replace the old fridge down there. I don't think that old fridge is plugged in. It's ugly & brown (came that color) & used to belong to a late friend.


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## Flyover (Jan 17, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> I almost refuse to believe that because in my mind I don't believe that Americans could make such absolute utter junk.


Oh, I can think of some examples where Americans tend to make absolute utter junk compared to other countries. Cars, hummus & felafel, film adaptations of Shakespeare plays...


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## 68bucks (Jan 18, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> I almost refuse to believe that because in my mind I don't believe that Americans could make such absolute utter junk.


I have a Viking wall oven made in Mississippi I believe. It's 5 years old now and has been nothing but trouble, my wife hates it. It wasn't cheap. I also have a Viking range bought at the same time. It's a little better but had trouble with that right out of the box. I doubt I would not buy Viking again. We have been really disappointed with their stuff.


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## Flyover (Jan 18, 2021)

I was thinking more about the washing machine thing...I've never had a washing machine fail to get my clothes clean, whether it was energy efficient or not. The only issue I've ever had with washing machines, be they old or new, foreign or domestic, is from being incorrectly loaded, to where they start thumping and jumping all over the place. (And of course, being the infallible saint that I am, I never was the one who loaded them unevenly, it was always someone else!)


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 18, 2021)

Flyover said:


> The only issue I've ever had with washing machines, be they old or new, foreign or domestic, is from being incorrectly loaded, to where they start thumping and jumping all over the place.



That would be the top loader style with an agitator that can get unbalanced. Front loaders that tumble the clothes supposedly get them cleaner and are gentler on the clothes. Front loaders were popular in early 1900's but after doors popped open/seals leaked/houses/apartments got flooded they disappeared from the market. They weren't so bad when in the basement, but as washing machines moved up into the house and upper floors of apartment buildings, they became Machines Non Grata. 
Now front loaders are back, especially in foreign brands, and as a newer novelty, much higher priced than conventional top loaders... and hopefully have new safeguards against flooding the home...


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 18, 2021)

68bucks said:


> I have a Viking wall oven made in Mississippi I believe. It's 5 years old now and has been nothing but trouble, my wife hates it. It wasn't cheap. I also have a Viking range bought at the same time. It's a little better but had trouble with that right out of the box. I doubt I would not buy Viking again. We have been really disappointed with their stuff.



Never heard of Viking, but thanks for the tip...


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 18, 2021)

68bucks said:


> Whirlpool makes washers at a huge plant in Clyde, OH. It's only an hour or so from my home...



I live about an hour west of Clyde. I bought two of the Whirlpool (under another brand name) 90+% efficiency furnaces for two different houses (at the same time) about, oh, 20-30 years ago. They've been totally dependable and really cut the heat bills down. I picked them because, at the time, they were the only brand with both heat exchangers made out of stainless steel. And also because they use readily available Honeywell controls instead of proprietary controls only available through one high priced source. I see on here that later models have a troublesome 'smart gas valve' with a printed circuit board on it and condensation drips on it damaging it. I also have a troublesome $350 'smart alternator' in my car now. So far, I've avoided the 'smart phones'. But have smart TV and TV projector.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 18, 2021)

Flyover said:


> Oh, I can think of some examples where Americans tend to make absolute utter junk compared to other countries. Cars, hummus & felafel, film adaptations of Shakespeare plays...



American made used to mean something, I remember the same dishwasher as a kid from when I could open my eyes until 5 or 6 years after I moved out of the folks house. I remember it taking about an hour for bone dry dishes, no such thing as "energy star" or chemical rinse aid.  I rented forever and never paid attention, but as a new homeowner in 2014, I got a nice lesson from LG, GE, Samsung, and now Whirlpool / Maytag. 

LG Washer and Dishwasher died, nothing catastrophic, just wouldn't work. It's not LG's belief that dishes can be dirty. Dishwasher wouldn't dry dishes. 

LG Dryer settings never worked, always had to use the time dry function. 

GE Dishwasher didn't dry with both heated dry functions selected. It was a lake inside. With both dry settings, it took 5 hours and 8 minutes to NOT DRY. 

Samsung double oven / range still smells of the chemical coating after 3 years, won't heat to temp, will not heat within 75 degrees with oven divider in, won't light burners half of the time. Display needs replacing. 

Maytag dryer smelled of chemicals for a month. Just for fun, I called tech support. Was told to check the vent for a dead rat. Kids... Had to have it replaced with a Whirlpool after the replacement Maytag also smelled of chemicals, albeit not nearly as bad as the first. 

Whirlpool dryer has a  "touch screen" that doesn't respond half the time, won't dry evenly, takes well over an hour for a few towels. (I clean the vent twice a year).

Whirlpool washer "clean washer" function only cleans the bottom 6th of the tub, as selecting deep water isn't allowed. 

Maytag dishwasher doesn't dry with "long power dry" setting any better than with no dry setting. It's a little less than a lake inside, but was advertised as able to dry without rinse aid. It doesn't have fold down tines, which makes zero sense. 

I had a service call for the Samsung double oven for the temperature issue, the tech said it was useless to use the divider, meaning there's no point in buying a double oven. A fresh pizza, like Papa Murphy's, takes 40 minutes or so. During his visit, I asked him about LG. He said his shop doesn't touch them at all. They flat out refuse. Now, if a repair shop that is getting paid by me or by the warranty simply refuses to touch an entire brand, that says something. 

None of this is common sense "pull your head out" user error situations. It's the "Energy Star" garbage. I asked GE customer service how it saves energy if it takes more than 5 hours compared to my parents that took an hour in the 80's... The rep, probably born in 2000 or so, said the dishwasher "spaced out the energy over the 5 hours instead of concentrating it."

I didn't even argue. I just said "Thank you, goodbye", and then realized we are completely screwed.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 18, 2021)

As to dishwashers, Cascade in green box used to advertise the hell out of their dishwashing soap... but it didn't work... I found lower priced ElectraSol in the white box to work much better... neighbor said his dishwasher was junk, didn't work, and he used the 'proper' soap in the 'green box'... he switched to white box and also got satisfactory results then... 
"Pooling" in bottom of dishwasher sounds like a partially clogged drain screen or uneven leveling... maybe a too long or too high drain hose is causing pumped out water to flow back in after the pumpout pump stops...
Used to use Glamorene carpet shampoo that did a great job and cleaned out everything. But apparently it was outlawed as benzene declared a carcinogen. Now have to buy carpet shampoo plus a half dozen specific additives to get something that kinda works...


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## zannej (Jan 18, 2021)

Keep in mind that if they say "made in America" it can include things made in Saipan by Chinese workers in sweatshop conditions because Saipan is part of a US commonwealth (of northern Marianas islands).
Stuff made within the US now is mostly made by prison inmates because they can force them to work for free or for less than minimum wage. In some cases it's essentially slave labor. They don't have much incentive for quality control. One of the reasons private prisons want to have so many inmates is they not only get paid to have them, they can use them as labor. I need to find the article about it that explained where most of the "American" made stuff was actually manufactured. Kind of sad.

Sorry to hear the Viking brand isn't reliable, but I'm glad I read that because I know to avoid that brand.

I have a dishwasher-- not sure what brand-- but I use it as an island for food prep and as a drying rack. Nothing ever gets clean in it-- probably because of the hard water. I also hate bending because of my back (as I mentioned before) so I don't like dishwashers. If it was higher up and didn't involve bending, it would be fine.

I hope I won't have to replace my fridge for a very very long time.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 19, 2021)

zannej said:


> Keep in mind that if they say "made in America" it can include things made in Saipan by Chinese workers in sweatshop conditions because Saipan is part of a US commonwealth (of northern Marianas islands).
> Stuff made within the US now is mostly made by prison inmates because they can force them to work for free or for less than minimum wage. In some cases it's essentially slave labor. They don't have much incentive for quality control. One of the reasons private prisons want to have so many inmates is they not only get paid to have them, they can use them as labor. I need to find the article about it that explained where most of the "American" made stuff was actually manufactured. Kind of sad.
> 
> Sorry to hear the Viking brand isn't reliable, but I'm glad I read that because I know to avoid that brand.
> ...



Thanks for that info, I didn't know about Saipan. I have commented about Prisons for a long time, there shouldn't be any private ones. 

I have wondered for a long time about Wolf ranges / ovens. I might as well save for one for a few years because they cost as much as a used car, but one thing I will guarantee right now is I'm not buying a new Big Box store appliance ever again. I will kill off the ones I have or repair them, or buy used versions of them, but never new.

I also want one of those commercial dishwashers that is done in 4 minutes that I used as a HS kid at Godfather's. I know there is several brands in the 20-30 minute range, which of course would be fine. I wouldn't even care if they dried that good if they were done that fast. 

I have whole back issues, every bend down threatens to give me a week vacation from doing anything.


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## Daniel Breiter (Jan 19, 2021)

bud16415 said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> Where I retired from we made refrigerators up to 1958 when the business moved out of town. I retired a couple years ago and there were still units made there running 24-7 keeping the guys lunches cold. Too many to count.
> 
> ...


Thank you..

They say Digital inverter refrigerators these days are leading the food preservation and is already a great invention which is cost savings, less noise, reduced carbon footprint and a longer lifespan for the compressor. Until compressor will go against the leakages, radiation load, human, and other appliances.


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## zannej (Jan 19, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Thanks for that info, I didn't know about Saipan. I have commented about Prisons for a long time, there shouldn't be any private ones.
> 
> I have wondered for a long time about Wolf ranges / ovens. I might as well save for one for a few years because they cost as much as a used car, but one thing I will guarantee right now is I'm not buying a new Big Box store appliance ever again. I will kill off the ones I have or repair them, or buy used versions of them, but never new.
> 
> ...


Saipan is a beautiful place- well, it was last time I went there-- which was about 20 years ago. Time flies. Small island. Lots of WWII sites. There used to be a 5minute flight from Saipan to Tinian. My mom went to the casino on Saipan while my dad and I went boonie stomping on Tinian. Found ourselves a midden pile of coke bottles from WWII. We collected a bunch of them.

I've never heard of Wolf ranges before. Never heard of a 4 minute dishwasher either. That would be awesome.

Daniel, thanks for the info on the digital inverters. I'll have to look it up some day. I think my fridge has the older type since it's over 15 years old. I'd love to see a side by side comparison of the different types. Something that works reliably and draws less power would be good.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 20, 2021)

zannej said:


> Saipan is a beautiful place- well, it was last time I went there-- which was about 20 years ago. Time flies. Small island. Lots of WWII sites. There used to be a 5minute flight from Saipan to Tinian. My mom went to the casino on Saipan while my dad and I went boonie stomping on Tinian. Found ourselves a midden pile of coke bottles from WWII. We collected a bunch of them.
> 
> I've never heard of Wolf ranges before. Never heard of a 4 minute dishwasher either. That would be awesome.
> 
> Daniel, thanks for the info on the digital inverters. I'll have to look it up some day. I think my fridge has the older type since it's over 15 years old. I'd love to see a side by side comparison of the different types. Something that works reliably and draws less power would be good.



Cool! One day I want to visit WW1 sites like Argonne and WW2 sites like Normandy. I lived around Civil War battlefields, that all amazes me as a History buff. 

Here's an example of those quick dishwashers. I see a lot of them are 240v, which I didn't know before. Makes it a little more difficult, but I would probably just replace the main panel. 



			https://www.restaurantsupply.com/under-counter-dishwashers


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## Flyover (Jan 20, 2021)

Am I weird? (OK that's probably a separate question. What I mean is...) am I weird that I load my dishwasher throughout the day and then run it at night -- usually hitting the start button is the last thing I do before bed -- so it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as it's under about 8 or 9 hours. Usually it's 2-3.

As such I don't see the point of a 4-minute dishwasher. Not like I'm running a restaurant out of my dining room.


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## 68bucks (Jan 20, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Thanks for that info, I didn't know about Saipan. I have commented about Prisons for a long time, there shouldn't be any private ones.
> 
> I have wondered for a long time about Wolf ranges / ovens. I might as well save for one for a few years because they cost as much as a used car, but one thing I will guarantee right now is I'm not buying a new Big Box store appliance ever again. I will kill off the ones I have or repair them, or buy used versions of them, but never new.
> 
> ...


If I were buying again I would probably go with Wolf. They own Sub-zero and my fridge works great. Also I have a Bosch dishwasher and we love it. It is super quiet which was important to us. We have an open concept house so if it was loud it would suck. It does a great job. Plastic stuff still doesn't come out really super dry but everything else is dry. A cycle is about 2 hours though. Like flyover said we usually start it in the evening after dinner. Our bedroom is like a loft and you can't even hear it up stairs except maybe when it pumps out or if something is moving around it it.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 20, 2021)

zannej said:


> I have a dishwasher-- not sure what brand-- but I use it as an island for food prep and as a drying rack. Nothing ever gets clean in it-- probably because of the hard water. I also hate bending because of my back (as I mentioned before) so I don't like dishwashers. If it was higher up and didn't involve bending, it would be fine.



Maybe you could get a water softener and mount the dishwasher up higher... I assume it's on wheels? Put it on top of a new storage cabinet.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 20, 2021)

Flyover said:


> Am I weird? (OK that's probably a separate question. What I mean is...) am I weird that I load my dishwasher throughout the day and then run it at night -- usually hitting the start button is the last thing I do before bed -- so it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as it's under about 8 or 9 hours. Usually it's 2-3.
> 
> As such I don't see the point of a 4-minute dishwasher. Not like I'm running a restaurant out of my dining room.


My Maytag dishwasher stays on after it's done to display the white light saying it's done. I'll have to do that once with a Kill-A-Watt to see how much electricity it burns. 

My lovely Whirlpool dryer stays on at the end of the cycle and beeps and rotates the drum for 20 seconds every so often to remind me that the cycle is done. No sleeping through that.


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 20, 2021)

68bucks said:


> If I were buying again I would probably go with Wolf. They own Sub-zero and my fridge works great. Also I have a Bosch dishwasher and we love it. It is super quiet which was important to us. We have an open concept house so if it was loud it would suck. It does a great job. Plastic stuff still doesn't come out really super dry but everything else is dry. A cycle is about 2 hours though. Like flyover said we usually start it in the evening after dinner. Our bedroom is like a loft and you can't even hear it up stairs except maybe when it pumps out or if something is moving around it it.


Have you had a Wolf?


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 20, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> My Maytag dishwasher stays on after it's done to display the white light saying it's done. I'll have to do that once with a Kill-A-Watt to see how much electricity it burns.
> 
> My lovely Whirlpool dryer stays on at the end of the cycle and beeps and rotates the drum for 20 seconds every so often to remind me that the cycle is done. No sleeping through that.



If the Maytag white light is an LED the power used is prolly about nothing...

The dryer prolly rotates the drum while cooling down to prevent wrinkles/creases from setting in...


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 20, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> If the Maytag white light is an LED the powered used is prolly about nothing...
> 
> The dryer prolly rotates the drum while cooling down to prevent wrinkles/creases from setting in...



If that's why, it doesn't work. It has a "steam" option that I might hookup, but if I want a shirt to be relatively wrinkle free, I need to do it separate and take it out right away.


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## 68bucks (Jan 20, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Have you had a Wolf?


No, we looked at Wolf when we bought and we liked the form of the Viking a little better. They are similar, more or a commercial product. There aren't a lot of brands in that product space. I wanted try and stay American made.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 21, 2021)

My dishwashers have always cycled through in 45 minutes to and hour, but maybe newer ones have energy saving features that slow them down... I'm still back in the GE PotScrubber days...


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 21, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Cool! One day I want to visit WW1 sites like Argonne and WW2 sites like Normandy. I lived around Civil War battlefields, that all amazes me as a History buff.



I visited Vietnam but it was during the actual war days... Vietnam looks like Hawaii, but kinda stinks because people pee and poop outdoors... strangest thing is trees full of monkeys... and it's 110 degrees 10 months out of the year... the Buddhist people are kind and gentle...


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 21, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> I visited Vietnam but it was during the actual war days... Vietnam looks like Hawaii, but kinda stinks because people pee and poop outdoors... strangest thing is trees full of monkeys... and it's 110 degrees 10 months out of the year... the Buddhist people are kind and gentle...



Baghdad has the same temperature, doesn't drop below 100 during the Summer, no beaches, and also no sewage department or trash collection.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 21, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> Baghdad has the same temperature, doesn't drop below 100 during the Summer, no beaches, and also no sewage department or trash collection.



I lucked out, my first 4 months in Nam were in 80th Group on the beach by DaNang... swam about every day in the hot months... then 4 months on DaNang U. S. Air Force Base... waiting for BushJr. to show up... he never did... LOL! ... then 4 months on Freedom Hill... endured a Typhoon there... (Asian name for a hurricane)


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## Spicoli43 (Jan 21, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> I lucked out, my first 4 months in Nam were in 80th Group on the beach by DaNang... swam about every day in the hot months... then 4 months on DaNang U. S. Air Force Base... waiting for BushJr. to show up... he never did... LOL! ... then 4 months on Freedom Hill... endured a Typhoon there... (Asian name for a hurricane)



I'll take the swimming without stuff biting me... Swam in Uday Hussein's pool a few times, although his castle wasn't fit for any visitors, had some construction issues.

On the main post, there was a nice pool, but the Aussies got it.


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## BuzzLOL (Jan 21, 2021)

Spicoli43 said:


> I'll take the swimming without stuff biting me...



Never been bitten by anything while swimming in Atlantic or Pacific oceans or South China Sea... but bitten by sunfish while swimming in quarries... prolly not much to eat in those deep rock quarries...


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## zannej (Jan 21, 2021)

Flyover, that's a good idea. My dish washing usually involves washing dishes first (bc they had to be washed before being put in the dishwasher bc it NEVER gets stuff off if they aren't pre-washed) loading it up, hooking it up, turning hot water on, turning dishwasher on, leaving. Coming back hours later (never paid attention to time it took to wash) and having to unload and wipe everything down to get the sediment off. That's one of the reasons I hate the dishwasher. Adds extra steps and works better as a drying rack.


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## Flyover (Jan 21, 2021)

@zannej Well, what I had to tell my wife is: it's not a magic box. First, you have to get the actual food off the dishes. (Sauce residue and stuff like that is OK, although for whatever reason I've never met a dishwasher soap that is able to remove stuck-on avocado...avocado oil must have something special about it. So, any avocado residue has to be wiped completely off.) Second, you have to load the dishwasher in a way so that the spinners can spin, so that spray can reach all surfaces, etc. Don't face a dirty dish flat against the wall. That kind of thing. Understand how water flows through the dishwasher and place your dishes so the water can move over them and work with that flow. Every dishwasher owner's manual I've seen actually comes with illustrations of how the dishwasher should ideally be loaded. (I'll bet I'm the only guy alive who studies those illustrations admiringly.) Third, before you run your dishwasher make sure you run your disposal in your sink. If that thing is gunked up then gunk will back up into your dishwasher. And you've gotta clean out your dishwasher's filters and traps once in a while, make sure its spray arms aren't clogged up, etc. You get the idea.

Also, as others have said, you should check and make sure your dishwasher's hooked up properly.


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## zannej (Jan 22, 2021)

My dishwasher is a portable unit so I have a hose I hook to the sink's faucet. It dumps everything out into the sink through that same hose. I don't even know where filters and spray arms are on it. It hurts my back to lean into it. I always tried to position stuff so it would get sprayed. But, it was always more work than just washing stuff and leaving it to dry in the dishwasher. LOL.


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