# Should I repair or should I replace?



## Spoonula (Mar 29, 2016)

I have a 3 season vacation place, and despite my best efforts blowing out the pipes, I had a break this winter. I have a series of galvanized fittings connecting everything. On the bottom is a T, out of which on one end is the garden hose and on the other end is cpvc going to the hot water tank. Moving up, I have a pex line in from my holding tank. Moving up again, there is some old flexible rubber-like hose that goes to my cold water fixtures. 

The cpvc is what broke. The threads are stuck in the galvanized T and I cannot extract them. 

Would it be smarter to try to take this apart, or should I just cut the pex and rubber-like pipes, remove the garden hose, and reconnect with new fittings? If the second option is the right one, what type of fittings should I use?


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## Chris (Mar 29, 2016)

Rigid make an extractor for the threads that are broken but might not be worth the cost if you can replace the fitting that they are stuck in.

I like to try and keep my materials the same.


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## frodo (Mar 29, 2016)

if you post a picture, we could see the problem and help you


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## bud16415 (Mar 30, 2016)

I bought an old two story house a couple years ago. Two baths, kitchen, laundry and 3 outside spigots. I messed around 3 days trying to fix water leaks in a mismatched bunch of stuff like you have. After pulling my hair out what is left of it, I cut the pipe off at the water meter and redid the entire house with PEX in one and a half days. Not one leak. Buy or borrow a good cutter and crimp tool. I like the stainless steel band type and do it once and be done. As it is 3 season give yourself good drain points and a place to connect an air compressor to blow the system dry.


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## frodo (Mar 30, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> I bought an old two story house a couple years ago. Two baths, kitchen, laundry and 3 outside spigots. I messed around 3 days trying to fix water leaks in a mismatched bunch of stuff like you have. After pulling my hair out what is left of it, I cut the pipe off at the water meter and redid the entire house with PEX in one and a half days. Not one leak. Buy or borrow a good cutter and crimp tool. I like the stainless steel band type and do it once and be done. As it is 3 season give yourself good drain points and a place to connect an air compressor to blow the system dry.



^^^  thats how I roll:agree:


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## VanMark (Mar 30, 2016)

Is PEX expensive to use?


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## bud16415 (Mar 30, 2016)

VanMark said:


> Is PEX expensive to use?



I think if you count your labor at anything it saves a lot of money. PEX can be run just like wires thru the wall so you have no connectors anywhere to leak. I ran my hot and cold to two manifolds with valves and ran a dedicated line to each location. They call that a home run. The only place I didnt do that was the upstairs bathroom. 

Compared to copper it is less cost.


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## nealtw (Mar 30, 2016)

I would go with pex and any future repairs if needed will only take minutes.


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## frodo (Mar 30, 2016)

I priced out buying pex,  and manifolds, rings and crimp tool

everything for a 2 bath house are around $400.00 from big box orange store


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## bud16415 (Mar 30, 2016)

frodo said:


> I priced out buying pex,  and manifolds, rings and crimp tool
> 
> everything for a 2 bath house are around $400.00 from big box orange store



That sounds about right. The only place the price will take off is if you start using shark bite fittings I used them just a couple places and $$$$$.


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## frodo (Mar 30, 2016)

you save money when you make your own manifolds


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

Here is the manifold I made. They sell a copper manifold and then I added my own ball valves. I stacked mine and offset them and mounted them to a couple boards all on the work bench. Took it down to the basement and selected the angle so that most of the runs came off at a nice angle to run the PEX thru the wall. attached it all to an old panel that was on the wall. 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBit...nifold-22788A/202300060?N=5yc1vZbwo5rZ1z0xnja


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## slownsteady (Mar 31, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> Here is the manifold I made. They sell a copper manifold and then I added my own ball valves. I stacked mine and offset them and mounted them to a couple boards all on the work bench. Took it down to the basement and selected the angle so that most of the runs came off at a nice angle to run the PEX thru the wall. attached it all to an old panel that was on the wall.
> 
> Bud; could you get a better picture of that, maybe a little closer. The shadows make it tough to see clearly. Thanks tho, it looks pretty doable.


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> bud16415 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the manifold I made. They sell a copper manifold and then I added my own ball valves. I stacked mine and offset them and mounted them to a couple boards all on the work bench. Took it down to the basement and selected the angle so that most of the runs came off at a nice angle to run the PEX thru the wall. attached it all to an old panel that was on the wall.
> ...


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## nealtw (Mar 31, 2016)

Bud they now make a frost free for hot and cold.
http://www.moen.ca/pressroom/press-release?id=3006


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## frodo (Mar 31, 2016)

bud..run 3/4 to the shower.  not 1/2''  you want volume at your shower head,  

lav and terlet do not matter,  but the tub shower does

http://screencast.com/t/NVUpUnSrdPzZ

http://screencast.com/t/6bT6cal3B4














look at the ID difference,  between copper and pex
1/2'' pex is damn near 3/8''  in nominal size


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

Better view


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Bud they now make a frost free for hot and cold.
> http://www.moen.ca/pressroom/press-release?id=3006



Nice find. I may have to buy a couple of those.


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

frodo said:


> bud..run 3/4 to the shower.  not 1/2''  you want volume at your shower head,




Looks like i did it right then.


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## nealtw (Mar 31, 2016)

Just to prove, I too can ask dumb questions.
1. Do you get more water from a bigger pipe, if the answer is yes, why.
2. Would 3/4 between the mixer and shower head not be filled enough with 2  1/2" pipes feeding the mixer?

I promise to have more questions no matter the answer.


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## bud16415 (Mar 31, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Just to prove, I too can ask dumb questions.
> 1. Do you get more water from a bigger pipe, if the answer is yes, why.
> 2. Would 3/4 between the mixer and shower head not be filled enough with 2  1/2" pipes feeding the mixer?
> 
> I promise to have more questions no matter the answer.



Flow rate is a function of pressure, length and restriction (size). Smaller pipe like smaller wire has higher resistance. 

Once the larger pipe is full it doesnt matter it will only flow out at the rate you put it in. 

I have city water and very high pressure so in my case the difference in pipe size most likely wouldnt have mattered.


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## nealtw (Mar 31, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> Flow rate is a function of pressure, length and restriction (size). Smaller pipe like smaller wire has higher resistance.
> 
> Once the larger pipe is full it doesn&#8217;t matter it will only flow out at the rate you put it in.
> 
> I have city water and very high pressure so in my case the difference in pipe size most likely wouldn&#8217;t have mattered.



I have been teasing plumbers for years and one house not long ago was all done with 1/2" pex and the home owner had them change to 3/4 for the master shower which had to be home run back to the mechanical room.
Talked the plumber into proving once and for all.

He came back later and said he did the test and told me how much longer it took to fill a 5 gal. pail with the 1/2" shower.
I went into the the bathroom to talk to him and noticed he had replaced the rain head with a hose so it would go directly in the pail. So I asked him if he did that in both bathrooms and he said he didn't have to because that other one has a hand held in it. The handhelds here all have a restrictor in them to save water, so nothing was proved. But he went away happy.:


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## frodo (Mar 31, 2016)

http://screencast.com/t/TPclxXW8Nr8M


first column is based on 2 ft/sec   second column is 4 ft/sec









a gubment mandated water saver shower head for 2016 is 2.5 gpm
as you can see a 1/2'' pex pipe does not have the MINIMUM required gpm to fulful the requirement.

other words.  like a 70 year old man with a bad prostrate piss'n


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## nealtw (Mar 31, 2016)

Careful about how you reference my pee rate
I do understand your thoughts on the pex. if I remove my restrictor, I don't get a better shower.
So if I just look at copper. And I put a 3/4 pipe between the mixer and the shower head the max I can put there is 6.5 gps and if I feed that with 2 1/2" copper pipes each delivering 3.2 gps then I will add those two and feed 6.4 gpm to the shower head.

Will .1 gps be noticeable in the shower?

Back to the pex, how much of that decrease is related to the fittings that are much smaller than the pipe.


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## williamrobin (Apr 20, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I would go with pex and any future repairs if needed will only take minutes.





I too. Both PEX and CPVC cost about the same but Pex has some advantages over CPVC.It is flexible and easy for plumbers to install. It's resistant to breaks in cold weather and as it has fewer joints,it will bring down the expense. I have used PEX in my new house as my plumber suggested.   :agree:


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## KULTULZ (Apr 21, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Back to the pex, how much of that decrease is related to the fittings that are much smaller than the pipe.



Exactly. Has there been a flow rate done on PEX line(s) *including* PEX fittings...


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