# Pantry won't fit with toe kick



## nike123249 (Mar 12, 2015)

So we had Home Depot build a custom pantry for us. The cabinetry specialist explained that the pantry and the toe kick would come separate and that we just need to lay the toe kick down then lift the pantry on top of it to have it fit uniformly against the wall and ceiling. No problem we thought.

The pantry came and we realized there is 3/4 inch lip on the bottom of the cabinet, essentially making it impossible to put the pantry on the toe kick given the height of the ceiling.

Here are the details:
Ceiling height = 96"
Cabinet height = 91.25"
Toe kick height = 5 and 1/8th"

So that 3/4" lip is the issue. Obviously we could cut down the toe kick, but then the pantry wont reach the ceiling like the rest of the cabinets so we're looking for some suggestions on what to do to make it fit. Thanks!


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## nealtw (Mar 12, 2015)

Welcome to the site. If the kick is the same width as the cupboard and the cuboard is supposed to have the sides held up, cut the bottom of the toe kick to fit.


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## beachguy005 (Mar 12, 2015)

I would bet the the lip is only on the front and 2 sides.  You install the base from the rear of the cabinet.


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## nealtw (Mar 12, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> I would bet the the lip is only on the front and 2 sides.  You install the base from the rear of the cabinet.



No they have given the kick big so it is cut to fit. If the kick dosn't reach both sides fill the space at the bottom with 3/4 stock.


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## JoeD (Mar 12, 2015)

Does the kick have to fit inside the lip on the cabinet? It it does then cut the back lip off and slide on.
The cabinet should not be made to fit tight to the ceiling. There should be some gap to allow for floor deviations and installation. Then add a filler like crown molding to cover it.


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## slownsteady (Mar 13, 2015)

You paid good money at Home Depot - have them fix it.


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## slownsteady (Mar 13, 2015)

Any chance the pantry is upside down?........just askin'


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

The toe kick is made high to be trimmed and scribed to suit the floor. If you look at how it&#8217;s made all the staples are on the one side and just glue at the bottom side to be trimmed. If it was one piece you couldn&#8217;t tip it up into place. Check the floor for level and your wall. Cut the base to create a level platform and then slip the top in place.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> The toe kick is made high to be trimmed and scribed to suit the floor. If you look at how its made all the staples are on the one side and just glue at the bottom side to be trimmed. If it was one piece you couldnt tip it up into place. Check the floor for level and your wall. Cut the base to create a level platform and then slip the top in place.



That works if they fill the void under the cupboard.


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

nealtw said:


> That works if they fill the void under the cupboard.


  I thought thats what the corner blocks did for you.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

Lost me.
Let's do the math, the cupboard is 92 1/4 the ceiling is 96 so the kick should be 3 3/4 but is when put in place the cupboard sits down on the kick it will add up to 95 1/4. so the way to fix that is to fill the void under the cupboard with 3/4 plywood or what have you.
The math will change as the OP wants to match other cupboards also.


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## nike123249 (Mar 13, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Any chance the pantry is upside down?........just askin'



I wish that was the issue 

The pantry currently has the lip on all 4 sides and on the top and bottom of the pantry. Cutting the lip off of the back of the pantry is looking like our best option so we can slide it on


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

nike123249 said:


> I wish that was the issue
> 
> The pantry currently has the lip on all 4 sides and on the top and bottom of the pantry. Cutting the lip off of the back of the pantry is looking like our best option so we can slide it on



That lip is holding the floor in place and cutting it off will weaken it, just cut a apeice of something to fill the void, check you sheves and see if the shipped the filler peice with them.


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## beachguy005 (Mar 13, 2015)

Two questions....one obvious and one not so.
Did you call HD and ask them how it should be installed?
Can you remove the top spacer, lift the cab into place and then slide the spacer back in on top?


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

Filling in the bottom would put the weight of the unit and all the contents on the bottom floor. If yours is anything like mine it has a ton or more of cans in it. I would think the weight is supposed to be carried down thru the sides. 

What is the reason the bottom toe kick can&#8217;t be shortened. If you can tip the pantry on its back and put the toe on its edge below it we can see what&#8217;s under there and you can measure it as a whole.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2015)

you can't stand up a full height cupboard??????????


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

nealtw said:


> you can't stand up a full height cupboard??????????


  I understand you cant build it on the floor  and then tip it up if its overall height is floor to ceiling. I wasnt suggesting that what I was suggesting was they do that so they can see the bottom of the unit and how it is constructed. I would assume when its put into place some clearance has to be left at the top say 1/64 of an inch, so it can slide in. 

  Is there just a toe kick on the front or front and left side? Im assuming the base is the same width as the pantry. 

  On a side note how does the end of the toe kick get finished?


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## nike123249 (Mar 13, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> I understand you cant build it on the floor  and then tip it up if its overall height is floor to ceiling. I wasnt suggesting that what I was suggesting was they do that so they can see the bottom of the unit and how it is constructed. I would assume when its put into place some clearance has to be left at the top say 1/64 of an inch, so it can slide in.
> 
> Is there just a toe kick on the front or front and left side? Im assuming the base is the same width as the pantry.
> 
> On a side note how does the end of the toe kick get finished?





You are right. We can't tip the pantry up because of the clearance with the ceiling.

The toe kick is essentially just a box to place under the pantry then we received finishing pieces to glue/nail onto it so it matches the pantry. The toe kick box is not quite the width of the full pantry when it fits underneath. I'll take another picture tonight to help show more detail.

We'll be screwing the pantry into a stud once it's in place to help support the weight and make sure it doesn't move. So I'm wondering if that will help the issue that was mentioned if we cut off the back part of the lip around the bottom of the pantry. Since no weight will be on that lip anyways once it's mounted on the toe kick.

More pics to come! Thanks everyone for your help!


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## nike123249 (Mar 13, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> Two questions....one obvious and one not so.
> Did you call HD and ask them how it should be installed?
> Can you remove the top spacer, lift the cab into place and then slide the spacer back in on top?



I called Home Depot to speak with the cabinet specialist we originally worked with and he was off until tomorrow. So I'll be following up with him then.

I'm not sure what you mean about the top spacer?


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## beachguy005 (Mar 13, 2015)

Forget the part about the top spacer.....I had a brain fart.


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## bud16415 (Mar 13, 2015)

I still don&#8217;t see why the back flange needs to be cut. Cut the bottom of the toe kick box to the right height and to adjust for any irregularities in the floor and mount it to the floor lift the pantry and slide it right into place and screw it to the wall and the cabinet next to it. You have to leave a small space at the top if it goes floor to ceiling. Don&#8217;t trust your ceilings are 96&#8221; right on the nose measure to see what you have. Then cut trim pieces and cover the exposed ends of toe kick. 

Maybe your photos will show me the problem in the back.


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## slownsteady (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm still not sure that HD is off the hook on this. If the 'specialist' hadn't considered this problem, he should readdress it. He can make sure the unit is not relying on that back lip, and then he can remove it for you.


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## beachguy005 (Mar 13, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> I still dont see why the back flange needs to be cut. Cut the bottom of the toe kick box to the right height and to adjust for any irregularities in the floor and mount it to the floor lift the pantry and slide it right into place and screw it to the wall and the cabinet next to it. You have to leave a small space at the top if it goes floor to ceiling. Dont trust your ceilings are 96 right on the nose measure to see what you have. Then cut trim pieces and cover the exposed ends of toe kick.
> 
> Maybe your photos will show me the problem in the back.



  You don't want to cut it because then it won't match the toe kick height of the other cabinets.  It's probably a 4-1/2" toe kick plus the 3/4" lip.  That's why it's 5-1/8".  Gives you an 1/8" to spare for the top.


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## nike123249 (Mar 16, 2015)

Here are some more pictures showing the bottom of the cabinet and the toe kick they provided.

I don't think there would be any issue cutting off the back lip so the pantry can slide onto the toe kick (box)


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## nealtw (Mar 16, 2015)

I don't get what the problem is. Find a peice of anything that is 3/4" thick and fitting against the floor inside the lip. Then you have a flat bottom on the cupboard. Did you call the salesman? they should supply this spacer.


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## beachguy005 (Mar 17, 2015)

With all due respect.  Why is this even still an issue for you?  Why don't you just go back to HD and have someone, even if it's not the salesperson that handled your order, explain how it's supposed to be installed?  
It's not like you're the first person to install one of these.  If the person there can't answer your question then just camp there until they call the cabinet manufacturer for you.


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## bud16415 (Mar 17, 2015)

That explains to me what I didn&#8217;t understand the box is sized to provide a toe kick in front but also on the side. For me that doesn&#8217;t sound correct. I was assuming the riser was just under the width of the pantry by the thickness of the beauty strip provided to hide the end of the riser. 

Is it common to have a toe kick on the end? I think you got the wrong size riser with your pantry. I could be wrong. the floor of the pantry is not going to hold IMO if you mount it as you are showing with the back cut out. that floor is to take the weight of the items you place in the bottom only. Neal&#8217;s method is better if the piece you fit in gets secured to the sides.


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## nike123249 (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's help! Home Depot wanted us to bring it back in and, since it's 8ft tall and about 200lbs, I was just looking for some other DIY options that would be easier.

It's a stand alone pantry not attached to any other cabinet so they claim the toe kick is correct. Guess we'll find out when we take it in. Thanks!


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## beachguy005 (Mar 17, 2015)

If it's the right base, which appears designed for a toe space on 3 sides, I would question if that 3/4" particle board base in the cabinet is going to support the weight of the cabinet plus the weight of all the material stored in it.  I know some of the weight will be supported when you mount it to the wall.
Most base cabinets are supported by their back and side panels, not the bottom.
With your pictures, is there really a need to haul it back for them to look at?


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> If it's the right base, which appears designed for a toe space on 3 sides, I would question if that 3/4" particle board base in the cabinet is going to support the weight of the cabinet plus the weight of all the material stored in it.  I know some of the weight will be supported when you mount it to the wall.
> Most base cabinets are supported by their back and side panels, not the bottom.
> With your pictures, is there really a need to haul it back for them to look at?



If you do a search of HDs site you will find nothing like this is listed, so it is truely custom, and the saleman likely has never had one like this before.
The fact that he dosn't understand the problem sure explains why he didn't write on the order that the bottom has to be flush for the kick to go under it.
When you talk about the strength of particle board, is your concern is that it will bend or are you questioning its shear strength.
Again I ask, what is the easiest why and the cheapest way to make it flush on the bottom with out tampering with the strength of the cupboard?


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## slownsteady (Mar 17, 2015)

The bottom shelf on the pantry looks like it is slotted into the sides, like a drawer bottom. I can't think of a scenario that I would let that support any weight beyond a sack of potatoes.

If the Op wouldn't mind telling us the brand of cabinet, I'd be curious enough to take a look at the demo cabinets next time I'm in HD


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> The bottom shelf on the pantry looks like it is slotted into the sides, like a drawer bottom. I can't think of a scenario that I would let that support any weight beyond a sack of potatoes.
> 
> If the Op wouldn't mind telling us the brand of cabinet, I'd be curious enough to take a look at the demo cabinets next time I'm in HD



That's pretty common construction,think of a fully loaded book shelf built out of the cheapest grade of this stuff.


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## slownsteady (Mar 17, 2015)

Yeah, as I was writing that i was thinking of how thick the pieces could be. But I still doubt that it's a good support for the pantry on the box....._maybe_ if the weight is at the edges.


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Yeah, as I was writing that i was thinking of how thick the pieces could be. But I still doubt that it's a good support for the pantry on the box....._maybe_ if the weight is at the edges.



Not sure how else you could build it and hide the floor behind finished gables and face frame.
Just for fun take a sheet of paper and place it on a bowl. Poke your finger down the center than ask yourself if this product could bend like that while it is trapped on a dato cut. Then if it can't bend like that you have think about shear strength, I'm thinking if the dato is 1/4 " you will run out of shelf space a long time before you get to critical weight.


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## slownsteady (Mar 17, 2015)

Agreed. As a shelf, it could support all the weight that could fit on it. But as a floor for the entire pantry and it's contents?  I know that's the basis for this whole thread, but as I looked at the construction in the last set of pix, and the size of the pedestal compared to the area (should say volume) of the pantry....well, I just had to comment. I'm also thinking of Ikea quality construction, and that may not be fair.


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2015)

Ikea, would have the whole thing sitting on four adjustable legs. Cupboard would have same type of construction.
Four plastic legs are rated for 1000lbs and I found no ifs or buts about partical board


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## beachguy005 (Mar 17, 2015)

nealtw said:


> If you do a search of HDs site you will find nothing like this is listed, so it is truely custom, and the saleman likely has never had one like this before.
> The fact that he dosn't understand the problem sure explains why he didn't write on the order that the bottom has to be flush for the kick to go under it.
> When you talk about the strength of particle board, is your concern is that it will bend or are you questioning its shear strength.
> Again I ask, what is the easiest why and the cheapest way to make it flush on the bottom with out tampering with the strength of the cupboard?




It wouldn't be on HDs site but rather on the cabinet makers site.  If you look at Kraftmade, which is a brand they sell a lot of, it does tell you that the toe kick base is shipped separately on floor to ceiling cabinets.
I can't believe any kitchen cabinet salesperson hasn't sold these full height cabinets before....unless it was their first day on the job.


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> It wouldn't be on HDs site but rather on the cabinet makers site.  If you look at Kraftmade, which is a brand they sell a lot of, it does tell you that the toe kick base is shipped separately on floor to ceiling cabinets.
> I can't believe any kitchen cabinet salesperson hasn't sold these full height cabinets before....unless it was their first day on the job.



We are talking about a HD sales person, like I said he dosn't unserstand with out seeing it. There might be difference if the order was writtin for 96" or a cupboard to fit tight to ceiling which is 96"


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## Rustedbird (Apr 18, 2015)

I'm thinking the base piece gets trimmed down and then the cabinet is slid onto it and secured to the wall. There has to be a little gap between the top and ceiling as no house  was ever built 100% square, plumb, nor straight. Perhaps a picture of the bottom of the cabinet? 

That might help in seeing just what the issue is in the fit.


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## slownsteady (Apr 20, 2015)

Rustedbird said:


> I'm thinking the base piece gets trimmed down and then the cabinet is slid onto it and secured to the wall. There has to be a little gap between the top and ceiling as no house  was ever built 100% square, plumb, nor straight. Perhaps a picture of the bottom of the cabinet?
> 
> That might help in seeing just what the issue is in the fit.



It's all there at the start of the thread


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## nealtw (Apr 20, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> It's all there at the start of the thread



A lot to do for a five minute fix


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## slownsteady (Apr 26, 2015)

So how was this resolved?????????????????


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## frodo (Apr 27, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> So how was this resolved?????????????????



like this............


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