# Hole Drilling in top plate from attic



## thapranksta (May 28, 2016)

I am planning to fish some cat5e ethernet cables through the same wall cavity where coaxial cables are distributed throughout my home.  The coaxials start on the first floor and run up to the attic.  I found the hole where the coaxials exit but it is not large enough to accept more wires so I thought I would drill another hole or two to run the roughly 13 cables. 

I successfully drilled a 3/8'' hole through a double top plate and fished a wire about a foot into the cavity.  So I grabbed a spade bit and started drilling a 3/4'' hole in the exact same spot and probably made it through most, if not all, of the uppermost top plate when the battery on my drill died.  

I started to think more about the spacing and the structural integrity.  A view looking down on the hole I drilled is below.  I am wondering if I have compromised the structural integrity at all with what I have done thus far and if I should stop drilling in the 3/4'' hole to the bottom left of the hole with all the wires.  Those 2 holes are about an inch apart.  I also want to know what is the maximum size hole I can drill and what distance apart?  Would two or three 1'' holes be ok? Could I go with larger holes?  Am I too close to the edge of the top plate? Thanks.


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## Snoonyb (May 28, 2016)

The National Electrical Code requires holes containing non-metallic cable (often called Romex) or flexible metal-clad cable (the type you buy with the wires already in it) be set back 1-1/4 in. or more from the edge of a stud (Fig. A) to protect the wires from nails and screws. (The 1-1/4-in. screws and nails used to secure 1/2-in. drywall penetrate the studs about 3/4 in.) Most electricians keep their inspector happy by drilling 3/4-in. holes dead center on a 3-1/2 in. wide stud.

Spacing the holes 1-1/2" apart, centered, will be just fine.


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## thapranksta (May 28, 2016)

Could I just patch the hole up with putty since I am sure it is less than an inch from the edge?  Or maybe I just don't use that hole and leave it as is?


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## oldognewtrick (May 29, 2016)

Don't worry about the structural integrity of the plate with the few holes you're drilling. Just use the spacing that Snoonyb recommended.


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## Snoonyb (May 29, 2016)

Plugging the isn't necessary, just remember not to place any electrical conductors through it.


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## KULTULZ (May 29, 2016)

Hut you do want to spray foam the holes (possibly fire rated caulk) to prevent heat loss and drafts.


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## thapranksta (May 29, 2016)

Ok.  Makes sense. I will make sure to fire caulk it up when finished.  Any advice for fishing wire through a finished insulated wall although that time has not come quite yet?

Edit: I do have the advantage of having the bottom two feet of the wall open right now but the rest of the wall is covered in drywall.


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## havasu (May 29, 2016)

If you spray foam in the hole next to the wires, you will never be able to remove the added wires, if it is the expanding type foam.


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## Snoonyb (May 29, 2016)

Elec. suppliers and some of the big boxes carry flexible fiberglass rods for the exact purpose.


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## havasu (May 29, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> Elec. suppliers and some of the big boxes carry flexible fiberglass rods for the exact purpose.



Well, there is that option. I have a few. They are pretty pricy though.


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## Snoonyb (May 29, 2016)

We'd set several plaster ring per room, before drywall, or the data folks would install there own afterset rings.

And then the phone co. would staple just above the base, what a bunch of sissy's.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

Well I got one of the holes completely drilled and went to fish the wire through and it would not go lower than the 2nd floor.  It was hard for me to get my eyes in there but from my camera it looks like the spray foam was added in the cavity the coaxials were snaked through.  Not sure if rods will help me or not.  I may have to rethink my plans of having all cables centralized on 1st floor.


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## Snoonyb (May 30, 2016)

There will be a sil or bottom plate on the 2nd story wall and below the floor joists will be another set of double top plates for the 1st floor walls.

Unless the dwelling is of the age to have been ballon framed, in which case there may be fire blocking.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

I was afraid that is the case.  So if I were to go through with this, I would likely have to open up a wall on the 2nd floor AND the subfloor?


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## Snoonyb (May 30, 2016)

Yep, the best laid plans of mice and men.

How dedicated are you to this method, for this project?

Transitioning into the floor joist system is the least of the tasks, determining whats in there is another story.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

I am pretty dedicated to this method to run the wire as I need to run wire to places on the first and second floor.  I have also purchased a good bit of resources for it already.  It seems if I don't do it here in existing wire channels I will still have to do it on some other wall where it may be more difficult.  With that said, I am still open to better suggestions.

I made a pumpkin cut in the wall in a coat closet under a stairwell on the first floor - the place that I am running all the wire from.  All the coaxials already originate from there and there is a GE smart connection center there but I do not plan to use it for my network wiring.  I have room to cut higher up the wall but here is a picture of what's there when you look up in the first floor wall.  I am able to stick my hand up and feel some type of "fuzzy" insulation.


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## Snoonyb (May 30, 2016)

Then you'll define the enormity of the project by the number of locations.

Our contribution may be limited to the method of accessing, to reduce the difficulty of returning the dwelling to satisfactory habitability.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

That's cool.  That's the part I likely will need the most help with.   I've cut the bottom of a wall open on the second floor and am able to access the bottom plate.  I can see the route the wires are taking.  I plan to drill two 1'' diameter holes centered at 1.5'' apart the same as the attic.  

You could probably guess that I'm trying to avoid opening the subfloor as that will get super messy and I would have to remove carpet.  The insulation in the top plate on the first floor looks like it is soft enough for wire to be snaked beside it but I guess I'll have to see.


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## Snoonyb (May 30, 2016)

In your case it's likely better for you to cut center to center of the studs.

I cut only the height of an angle cordless drill and a spade bit. Both the top and bottom cuts are chamfered so the the inner dimension is shorter than the surface dimension so that when you replace the, retained, piece, you butter both edges of the chamfer and screw the piece back in place, a little trowel work, prime and paint.

The problem with not folding the carpet back, finding the center of the floor joist and opening a narrow area, is that you don't know if the holes you drilled in the bottom plate will fall in the same joist bay, or if there is plumbing piping in the joist bay, or if there is elec. as well.

The alternative is a long bit, and hope.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

I tried the long bit and hope approach.  That didn't work.    I went ahead and broke out the circular saw and opened up the subfloor.  My wife is seething right now.

At any rate, I found out why the long bit approach didn't work.  Apparently I am drilling directly down into an I-joist instead of a cavity.  The coaxial cables actually come out the side of the top of the I-joist which looks very odd and then it exits at the bottom in a precut area.  Pictures are attached.  Now I'm wondering if I should try the same approach as far as exiting out of the corner of the top of the I-joist.

Top of I-joist (Entry from attic)





Bottom of I-joist (Exit to 1st floor)


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

I saw this document which seems to suggest that this approach to cutting in I-joists should not have been taken on page 7.  

http://www.bc.com/content/uploads/bc-resources/west_spec_complete.pdf


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## nealtw (May 30, 2016)

Can we believe that the I beam is sitting on the top plate of the wall, we hope.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

Yes, it is sitting on a double top plate.  Of course, the double top plate is precut (or I guess "notched" is the better word) as well in order for the exiting wire to continue its route.


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## nealtw (May 30, 2016)

That will not be a problem.


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## thapranksta (May 30, 2016)

Ok, so would I be able to do the same thing done at the top of the joistswith the existing wires to get the new wires through?  It seems my other option would be to drill holes in the bottom plate off center so they clear the top of the joist but that would violate code.


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## nealtw (May 30, 2016)

You are not violating code when you are over the wall, there is very little room between that joist and the 1" thick boxer facing the stair case.
When you install that system they tell you exactly where to put each joist and sometimes you need an extra to give spacing for toilets or such we just borrowed the one over the wall and used scrapes to fill that space.
Engineers and inspectors saw it and never failed it. Plumbers and Hvac people just cut thru the whole mess to get to the next floor. Hopefully your framers were nice enough to line up the studs from one floor to the next. When they are not lined up you might worry a little but you have not cut the web, so I would not worry.


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## Snoonyb (May 30, 2016)

thapranksta said:


> I tried the long bit and hope approach.  That didn't work.    I went ahead and broke out the circular saw and opened up the subfloor.



Now that your done with that cut, here's my method; Locate the center of the I joist and scribe a 12" line, set the depth of cut at about 1" and cut 1-1/2" away from the base between the center lines, reset the depth of cut to 3/4" and at 12" away from the first cut, make another, cut the scribed lines, use a chisel to finish the cuts at the corners. Retain the piece.

To repair, cut 2 tight fitting pieces of 2x3 or 2x4 and insert them on the flat leaving an inch or so exposed and set 3 or 4, 1-5/8" deck screws thru the floor sheating into the block, attach the block to the I joist with 3" deck screws (a pilot hole will prevent splitting), you could also add some panel adhesive,.

Replace the floor sheating, fold back the carpet and rent a knee-kicker to strech it back in place.  



thapranksta said:


> My wife is seething right now.



That's will only last as long as it takes for you to convince her how much faster her amazon experience will be.:trophy:



thapranksta said:


> At any rate, I found out why the long bit approach didn't work.  Apparently I am drilling directly down into an I-joist instead of a cavity.  The coaxial cables actually come out the side of the top of the I-joist which looks very odd and then it exits at the bottom in a precut area.  Pictures are attached.  Now I'm wondering if I should try the same approach as far as exiting out of the corner of the top of the I-joist.



I'm not a big fan of notching any lumber, so instead I would drill a number of precise holes.


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## thapranksta (May 31, 2016)

I ended up drilling an angled hole under the subfloor and into the base plate to avoid drilling through the I-joist.  I think I was fortunate to get the right angle using a spade bit.  I'm not sure if I'll have the same level of success if I create another hole but my original plan was to run 13 cat5e cables and I doubt all would fit well together in a single 1'' hole.

I did drop 3 cables into my bonus room which had an insulated wall.  I ran some but not all parts of the cable behind the insulation as it is difficult without opening most of the wall and removing the insulation to get it all behind.  I plan to run 2 each to 4 bedrooms and 1 or 2 more to the ceiling in the bonus room just because I don't want to have to rip all this stuff back open and there may be a need to connect some overhead gear to our network in the future.


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## thapranksta (Jun 3, 2016)

Small update...so far so good.  Dropped cables to two additional rooms on 2nd floor using techniques discussed here.  Will have to drill new holes for additional cables for one more room.  Also will have to figure out how to run cables to one room downstairs.


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## thapranksta (Jun 3, 2016)

So I have run into the dreaded but necessary obstacle that people seem to face when running wires - a fireblock.  Question is would I need to caulk the hole up if I drilled through it?  I have a pretty good angle just looking from the floor up into the wall cavity where I can fit a spade bit with drill extension but if I must seal the fireblock hole, that is a no-go.


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## nealtw (Jun 3, 2016)

I wouldn't worry about it but if you really worry about it drill a hole in a chunk of plywood and slip the wire thru it and when you pull the wire in you can foam the hole glue the plywood and pull the wire up snug until the glue drys.


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## Snoonyb (Jun 3, 2016)

thapranksta said:


> So I have run into the dreaded but necessary obstacle that people seem to face when running wires - a fireblock.  Question is would I need to caulk the hole up if I drilled through it?  I have a pretty good angle just looking from the floor up into the wall cavity where I can fit a spade bit with drill extension but if I must seal the fireblock hole, that is a no-go.



Actually, it makes little difference if you could caulk, because your cable is likely non rated.

Drill a hole just larger than the cable/s you are pulling, so that when you pull, you are not causing and deformation of the cabling, yet are able to replace if necessary.


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## thapranksta (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks for the tips guys.  Today was largely unsuccessful but I will try to tackle the fireblock tomorrow.  The other issue I had is that the second wall I tried to wire had a bathtub on the other side which means the wall had a huge pvc pipe and other unexpected stuff in the same cavity the coaxial is located.  

Edit: And to top it all off, I lost my 1/2'' spade bit in that bathtub wall.


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## Snoonyb (Jun 4, 2016)

I dig it.:beer:


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## CallMeVilla (Jun 4, 2016)

My question is the interaction of fire foam with wiring insulation.  We recently pulled some poly hose thru a wall and added fire foam for insurance.  Wouldn't you know it, the foam ate holes in the poly hose.

Has anyone used fire foam directly on cat 5 cabling and did it eat the insulation?


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