# Straw that broke the camels back



## Chris (Aug 10, 2016)

So as most of you know I own a pipeline company in Southern California, we are a small family owned business. I started this company from nothing starting in 2007 when the economy was crashing. I saw the pipeline company I was working for go out of business in 2007 which jump started me working towards my licensing and gathering of tools. He started up another pipeline company immediately that I worked at but I knew it was only a matter of time before that on failed as well. I learned most everything I know about running a company from him right and wrong and I knew where I would do things differently. Well 2008 rolls around and he goes out of business again and this time I did not jump on going back with him for another ride. I was his project manager and my name had been drug through the dirt with him. Somehow I was also a bad person because he could not stop spending or ripping people off.

In early 2009 I officially opened the doors to my business, at the time there was very little work to be had and no one was working. I did whatever I could to pay the bills. I was at rock bottom so there was no place to go but up. Over the next 7 years I grew this company into a multi million dollar company (On Paper). Four years ago my wife and I started a family with our first daughter and two years ago with our second daughter. Life was great! I was providing for my family like most wish they could. I grew up in a very poor household and always wanted to be able to give my kids the life I never had and I was now able to do this.

Over the last couple years I have had more stress and more sleepless nights than anyone should. I was borderline depressed yet I had everything a guy would want. It has gotten worse this year. I have been working long days for over 7 years now and it is dragging me down, my hair is turning white.

For the last year or more my wife and I have been thinking about moving out of state to a slower pace of life (we both grew up in a small town). For the last year I have been noticing more and more of what I don't like about Southern California. We live in a place that has some of the worst traffic in the nation, crime has been rising and we are way too over populated. You can drive 4 hours north and still not pass any empty land. Everyone that lives here only lives here so they can work to keep living here. Most people are on the road or working from sun up to sun down five days a week to only try and catch up with life on the weekend. The cost of living is so high that most people are living at the poverty line and don't even know it, they try to act middle class by going into major debt to make it look as if they are doing great. Very few people have a savings or are even doing ok. Everyone is so busy trying to make a living that no one really gets together with anyone else anymore to do things. (I grew up going to BBQ's and get togethers with friends and family). Here we have to plan a month in advance to go to dinner with a friend. This is not the life I want or want for my children. I am scared of what this place will be in another 20 years when my kids are adults. It seems that our youth is lazy and rude. I don't want my daughters to be 18 years old covered in tattoos and piercings doing drugs because it is legal and not wanting to get ahead in life because there is no need. If I can do anything to slow or stop this I will.

Next is back to running my company and taxes. The state of California makes it very difficult to make a profit here. Between the feds and the state most small business is spending between 55 and 70% of the money brought in in some sort of tax and then at the end of the year if you happened to save any money in the bank you have to write a check for about 37% of that money. Every year my CPA tells me how I need to spend my money or give it away. Says I need to buy equipment or give hefty bonuses. I have done this every year I had money except one where I tried to save and I got hit with a huge penalty for saving and had to give a lot of it away. Essentially every January I am starting over trying to save money to give it away next year. 

Now comes this morning, I came into my office and checked the mail, there was a letter from the county. They are assessing my companies value so that I can pay another tax based on years of saving and building my company. This was the last straw, I am done with this place. I am tired of every week having to cut a check in the thousands to one form of government or another just so that in the end I can make less money than my employees.

It's kind of funny I used to tell people I want to move and they always told me the grass isn't greener on the other side. Over the last few months I tell people I want to go and they just insist I save them a spot when I get there.

This is my story for the day, just felt I should share my views as a small business owner in this state.


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## bud16415 (Aug 10, 2016)

Thanks for sharing Chris. Being a bit older actually a lot older actually I knew this country from a different time till now and people always say about the good old days really weren&#8217;t all that good but I have to say in so many ways they were. Like you I got caught up in the rat race for a few decades and like you it seemed the more you get ahead the more you fall back. I had a turning point a few years ago and relocated to a little town that was more 1966 than 2016. We decided to try the less is more idea and that lead me to finding this forum. We found a 25k house as absurd as that sounds the more amazing part was the total taxes on the house and property are $300 per year. I pretty much worked my butt off for a year rebuilding the place spending maybe another 10-15k on used materials. Monthly now we have water, electric, gas, food & cell phones. We see all the young people spending 90-100% of their income trying to pay for a house and a few new cars and doing nothing but work pay interest and taxes. 

When we first moved here I was amazed no dumbfounded that the school bus would drop kids off and they would run in the house and come out 5 minutes later and ride bikes and play in the yards and everyone in the town seems to jog or ride bikes around town. I joked we moved to Mayberry RFD and Barney Fife the cop will be coming by.

There are places still with more laid back lifestyles, and they are not immune to the troubles of modern life as I would be lying if I didn&#8217;t say we have had a few crazy things happen here. But the thing is they don&#8217;t happen every day or 10 times every day. The cost of living is much lower but so are the cost of most services paid. Some type of work still needs to be done and those people are doing ok. Then there are the old people that sit around and talk about how it was when there were the good jobs in the 60&#8217;s and how the railroad used to employ so many and bring people to town. Our little town once had 22 inn /hotels in the30&#8217;s- 50&#8217;s now we are down to just one and it is a place you go and stay to relive the good old days. 

I have been out your way and it is amazing to see but I wouldn&#8217;t want that lifestyle. 

Good luck man your head is on straight and we all want the best for you and your family.


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 10, 2016)

If you are set on moving, formulate a plan on how to do it and stick to the plan. Relocating isn't easy, I've done it twice and it takes time to get settled. Been in Nashville going on 30 years and don't plan on leaving unless it's in a wood box. Best of luck my friend on what direction you may choose.


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## Chris (Aug 10, 2016)

In two weeks we are flying up to Boise to take a look around and see if it is something we might like. Boise itself offers growth which means I can make money. There is very little crime and it is a slower pace of life but probably not as slow as where Bud is. I would like that but I don't want my kids to grow up and hate me for moving them to Podunk nowhere. My idea would to live a few miles out of town, there is a small town called Horseshoe Bend that looks inviting for my life style, far enough out that it will likely not get over built in my time and I won't be in the middle of the growth. Wherever I go I don't plan on any sort of quick jump and want to plan it out the best I can. My goal would to be able to move and have my new house paid for before I got there, no mortgage takes a lot of stress out of things. It is still a very scary thing to leave everything you know and start over. I have done it on a small scale when I left my small town and moved to the city 18 years ago and that was only 110 miles away. Luckily I am a people person and can make friends anywhere and also love spending time with myself and my family and have enough projects to keep myself busy for a lifetime. I go back and forth all the time but really the only reason I don't want to go is that it is a big jump to make and I am scared of failing. I would kick myself if I moved and left my company behind to only be unhappy later down the road although that is probably not likely. The one big thing I will miss is the ocean, not because I like beaches because I almost never go to them but I like fishing and fishing in Mexico, that will be a tough one.


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## inspectorD (Aug 10, 2016)

Get your plan together, and move is also my advice to you. I've been in CT for all my Life,and I too am starting over this year. This State has been in the toilet for years with Taxes and unfriendly business from the GOVT.. The past 30 years in Business here have given me all I need to know about how to make things work somewhere else.
This is how I am doing it. 
I want to live in a warmer state, one I can be near the ocean, I will also need some connections where I am going.
I will look for a business friendly state, and one with an economy that is moving forward, however small.
I will look for a professional group to join and make connections, and a volunteer organization I can still do community work in the town I choose to live in , I have belonged to the Lions club for 25 years here.

The grass is never greener if you don't make it grow, my 3 choices are Daytona Florida area, Emerald Ilse North Carolina, or Atlanta where I was just offered a Cherry Job.  Atlanta is huge, and growing fast.However, it takes time to get anywhere....so Im leaning towards Florida for Retirement also...soo... many things matter.

Good luck, Ive been to Diego, and no way would I live there..or Cali.

If there was any good work left here, I would stay, I do live in Mayberry, I sit at the same table for Lunch everyday, with the same guys who also own Business in Town. We are a small town, but taxed to death, many are leaving or have left. its a sad day when you leave the comfort and structure of your life behind...but you gotta do for you.


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## inspectorD (Aug 10, 2016)

Time to GIT.....


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 10, 2016)

So, Inspector, who's gonna tend to your cranberry bogs...


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## frodo (Aug 10, 2016)

chris, I do not know if my experience in moving long distance willl help or not. 
what i did was call a realitor,  she sent u listings e might be interested in,  we culled out the trash we were not liking
we flew into Austin tx  met her at her office and went looking for what we wanted.
we picked a place to RENt.  I signed a 6mth lease

flew back out that night,  
 a month later we were moved  from colorado to tx
we looked around in the 6 mths to find a place to buy.
we settled on buying a new house in a new subdivision
land lord was a sweet heart and said staty till your house is ready to move in, do not worry about the lease.

on our move.i got 4 guys from work to load everything up
i spent days boxing everything. when they showed up there was no waiting, everything was boxxed and stacked into the truck in 1 hour
we vacuumed the floor and hit the road

i back your decision 100%  i cant help you physically , but you have a cheering section
you have my number, call anytime you want to hear a southern drawl
if we cant get it figured out we can sure talk it to death


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## frodo (Aug 10, 2016)

inspectorD said:


> Time to GIT.....



 oh oh................


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## HandyOne (Aug 12, 2016)

Good luck Chris.    Make your plan, then work your plan.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

New plan! Win lottery and not care anymore.


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## havasu (Aug 12, 2016)

Just vote for Hillary, quit your job, get unemployment.


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## nealtw (Aug 12, 2016)

Chris said:


> This is my story for the day, just felt I should share my views as a small business owner in this state.



Chris: if you complain in public you leave yourself open to opinion from the public.
People at Harvard business school did a study.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication Files/15-080_493171a8-bc08-4ee7-9dee-bf40ae4b01fa.pdf


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## zannej (Aug 12, 2016)

Chris, that really sucks. It is just ludicrous how expensive things are and how people get taxed so much. The really big corporations do well because of loopholes to pay zero tax and then companies like yours get screwed.

We could use more plumbers around here, but the economy is in the pits and sales tax is 11%. They may even end up raising state income tax.

I've heard Nevada doesn't have state income tax though...


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## bud16415 (Aug 12, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Chris: if you complain in public you leave yourself open to opinion from the public.
> People at Harvard business school did a study.
> http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication Files/15-080_493171a8-bc08-4ee7-9dee-bf40ae4b01fa.pdf



The boys at Harvard could learn a lot from Dizzy Dean.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

I don't mind public opinion. If I stuck with only my opinion how would I know if it was a good one?


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## nealtw (Aug 12, 2016)

Well I don't think it is a good idea to complain about min wage because the company can't afford it and then complain about having to give money away lower to your taxes.
I take it you are up against a higher tax bracket so you actually save money be donating it. I don't know your tax laws but how much time have you invested in learning what other people do.
Like put your kids on the board of directors, They pay the min. tax and let them buy the new family car or boat or save for their education, you control their money.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

That's how you save but I have morals which makes it hard


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## nealtw (Aug 12, 2016)

We like to bitch about the rich and their loopholes but it is your job to take advantage of every loophole you can find. It's called management.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Well I don't think it is a good idea to complain about min wage because the company can't afford it and then complain about having to give money away lower to your taxes.
> I take it you are up against a higher tax bracket so you actually save money be donating it. I don't know your tax laws but how much time have you invested in learning what other people do.
> Like put your kids on the board of directors, They pay the min. tax and let them buy the new family car or boat or save for their education, you control their money.




Problem with donation and any other way to lower taxes is I don't have the money. Quite a bit of money goes through my company but there is still very little that is available for much anything else. I pay myself less than my foreman makes. I really don't know how to change my tax bracket without hurting my company. Say if I donated 20k to a charity I would save about 10k in taxes. People always to just charge more but then I wouldn't be working. It's hard when I am competing against people that don't follow the rules or laws. I do everything how the government tells you to which is what puts my company at risk. The only thing I can think of is that the government wants to keep your head just above water and that is it. It's a tough thing to run your own business.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

nealtw said:


> We like to bitch about the rich and their loopholes but it is your job to take advantage of every loophole you can find. It's called management.




Loopholes are great but I have been audited twice by the irs and I will tell you that isn't fun at all. I did win both.


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## frodo (Aug 12, 2016)

put the company in your wifes name then you will be eligible for minority   deductions

also eligible to bid minority contracts with state or fed


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

Then I become what I don't like.


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## Chris (Aug 12, 2016)

Close corporation, go sole prop with one or two employees. Easier to hide stuff when sole prop plus the state charges a grand a year just to have a Corp.


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## slownsteady (Aug 12, 2016)

The government doesn't know what to do with small companies. In fact, all the stats for small Cos. usually refer to companies with about 100 employees...that's what the gov't considers "small business" If you have twenty people you are expected to manage like you had 100 people. Imagine how it is as a freelancer or a Mom & Pop business.

And small business owners have no safety net: no unemployment if your business folds, no disability unless you insure yourself. And you are still expected to be brave enough to stand on your own feet. The gamble is hardly worth it. They have to hide the hardships behind the glorified name "entrepreneur".


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## frodo (Aug 13, 2016)

i think small mom and pops should run on a flat tax.


that way they can budget and grow


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## nealtw (Aug 13, 2016)

frodo said:


> i think small mom and pops should run on a flat tax.
> 
> 
> that way they can budget and grow



Forecasting a budget is just part of doing business if they can't do that they can't buy inventory or rent a shop or hire people.


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## slownsteady (Aug 13, 2016)

Many ups & downs for a micro business. it's really hard to predict earnings from year to year when the economy is out of your control.


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## Chris (Aug 13, 2016)

Our problem has been we get very busy for 6-8 months and then nothing for a couple months. Over all we do ok. We are not making it rich but we are making a living and the company is growing.


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