# Basement Leaking at Front Door Location



## aanieze (Nov 18, 2015)

I've got a pretty good basement leak that only occurs when it's raining and blowing towards the front of the house. In the basement, it leaks right at the top of the foundation and pours down the wall.

My father-in-law works on houses and mentioned a few troublesome areas on the outside of the house that may be causing this, but even after caulking those there's still a leak.

Below is an image of the basement's leaking area. It'll soak that ruined insulation first and then slowly start streaming down. You can also see some wood damage going on over there. Judging by how the concrete around the leak is bubbling, this leak has been here a long time. This area is almost directly under the front door.







Here's an image of my front door/patio. Most of the original caulking/sealing looks good to me (but then again, I'm not a pro).






The actual front doors seal up really well and no water gets in between here, or anywhere on the first floor for that matter.






Any ideas? I don't want to redo all of the sealing on the outside of house if the leak is a different fundamental issue with the home (which is about 60 years old). We've only been here a couple years, but as you can see from that basement photo, that leak has been here for a long time.

Thanks for taking a look at my problem. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated!


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2015)

Sooner or later you are in for a fair sized repair.
The concrete front porch is up against the wood framing for the floor and  water is getting in there..
We have been looking at simular  problems at this thread.
http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=19420
The concrete bubbles are just that, not damage but the wood in there is subject to rot, remove all that insulation, bag it and get it out and at least let the wood dry between storms for now.


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## slownsteady (Nov 18, 2015)

Could be coming in behind the stone facing, or at the seam between the porch and the wall, or maybe even higher.  Either way, its going to work it's way down the wall to the basement before it reveals itself. I agree with Neal, remove the insulation; you'll get a clearer look at the damage.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

aanieze said:


> I've got a pretty good basement leak that only occurs when it's raining and blowing towards the front of the house. In the basement, it leaks right at the top of the foundation and pours down the wall.
> 
> My father-in-law works on houses and mentioned a few troublesome areas on the outside of the house that may be causing this, but even after caulking those there's still a leak.
> 
> ...



So that was the bad news, I do have a few questions,
Looking at the porch we can see either the step or the sidewalk has moved.
The poarch should slope away from the house, can you put a level on it and see if that is the case? Or just pore some water on it does it run to the house or off the front.
You do want to solve this before it effects that oak floor, that would be real money to fix.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

Seeing as how the leak appears to be at the top of the basement wall, I'd first direct any investigation toward the door threshold. Easy enough to do. Get a hose and start water testing. Start at the bottom and slowly move up the area.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

oldognewtrick said:


> Seeing as how the leak appears to be at the top of the basement wall, I'd first direct any investigation toward the door threshold. Easy enough to do. Get a hose and start water testing. Start at the bottom and slowly move up the area.



No, there is no evidence of moisture under the hardwood but a hole could be found with a hose. To soon to go for that.


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## aanieze (Nov 19, 2015)

> The poarch should slope away from the house, can you put a level on it and see if that is the case?


Thanks for getting back to me on this. I put a level on the porch/step and they were darn near perfectly level. The sidewalk slopes away from the porch also. When it rains, the water usually just sits and doesn't run off.



> Get a hose and start water testing.


I gave this a try... I sprayed around the base of the door and sure enough it leaked as it usually does, but I'm still not exactly sure where the problem area is as water tends to go off the edges of the patio. I'm thinking of spraying separate areas at different times, but I still don't think I'd be able to diagnose the issue.

Thanks for your help!


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

Can you post a pic of the front of the house looking at the door and steps?


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

I can..............


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

I am waiting for the OP to come back for more information but I think there are fixes here without distroying the house.


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## oldognewtrick (Nov 19, 2015)

I was hoping for a pic of the whole door, not just the bottom half.


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## aanieze (Nov 19, 2015)

> I am waiting for the OP to come back for more information



Hi Neal, I made reply a little bit ago answering your questions, I'm not sure if you saw it. Let me know if you need anything else.



> I was hoping for a pic of the whole door, not just the bottom half.



Oldognewtrick, it's pitch black outside now, but I'll take another picture first thing tomorrow and post it. Thanks for your help.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

aanieze said:


> Hi Neal, I made reply earlier here answering your questions, I'm not sure if you saw it.



Sorry I missed that. We can see some of the things done to the outside.
Oldog would like to know if there is any evedance of water damage on the main floor, the floor the ceiling the walls around the door. We can see the floor s still in good shape, so I am not hinking it is a high leak but time will tell.

What i want is first get that insulation out of there, so bag it carefull, it might be full of mold, a mask and floves would be a good idea. Then there is an inspection of the wood below the door that needs to done with a screwdriver just to see how soft the wood is compared what we know is good wood near there area.
On top of the concrete there is a 2x4 or 2x6 on the flat and a floor joist on the outside edge standing on edge right under the outside wall.If there is damage there(soft wood) map it out like how high on the joist how wide is the damage and location compared to the door.


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## aanieze (Nov 19, 2015)

There's no damage or signs of anything on the main floor. It might be worth pointing out that the wood flooring around the front door was redone when we bought it. It used to be an old section of tile, so somebody came in and pulled it out and matched our flooring.

Way back when:






I've also taken a hose to just the base of the outside door to make it leak, so I suppose that could rule out a high leak for now.

I just removed the insulation - here's a few photos of that:
















I'm thinking now that the insulation is gone (not sure why I didn't remove it sooner) I should hit the patio with some water again and see if I can spot a more direct leak, if that would help.

Now for the screwdriver test, is this for the wood in the basement? Or wood on the outside (behind the trim, patio, etc)? Sorry, I'm a little confused on this.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2015)

If water was getting between the hard wood and subfloor the hard wood would have buckeld up in the first few hours.
The wood I would like inspected is all the wood in the area of your last 3 photos, where the insulation was. All the wood above the concrete as fare as you can go on each side of the door as water can travel great distance it could be coming from else about.. We can see some water staining in the photos, check away fromm the door and see if that is a constant along that wall.


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## aanieze (Nov 20, 2015)

I decided to hit the patio with some water now that I got that insulation out. I only sprayed the top of the patio where it meets the house and it started leaking in the basement within a few seconds.

I took some photos of exactly where it was leaking. The water came in from that rotted gap where that wood (the 2x6 you were talking about?) meets the concrete basement:






I took a look behind the clean insulation, but the water staining only appears to be for the length of the front patio. The water came in disturbingly easy with just 30 seconds of spraying.






I poked around with a screw driver, but the wood seemed good (except for the obvious rotting in the images above). Hopefully this sheds a little more light on the issue. Thanks again for your help through this!


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## nealtw (Nov 20, 2015)

Let's start with the easy stuff first. All that rotted stuff wants to be removed, best with a shop vac. Chip away as much rotted wood that you can and then treat all the wood in that area with a copper based treatment.
Lumber yards carry an end treatment for end cuts on treated lumber. That will stop any mold growth. Cheap paint brush and rubber gloves, it paints like water.

The problem as I see it is masonry used for siding should have weep holes at the bottom, because it absorbs water and weeps to the inside and drains down between the house and masonry and drains out the problem.
So for starters we want to give water a place to go.
I need some measements. The exact hight if the floor joists and the thickness of the floor. You might find info be looking in heat vent at the floor or laying a straght edge on the floor sticking out oer the stairs and mease down to the bottom of the floor joist, would give you total thickness of everything.
Then what is the distance from the bottom of the door sill to the deck?


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## aanieze (Nov 20, 2015)

For the measurements: the door sill is 6 inches from the top of the concrete patio (4.5 inches from the bottom of that little piece of wood). The floor joists are 7 inches tall and from the top of the floor to the bottom of the floor joist was 9 inches. Measuring everything together was a little tricky, so if 9 inches seems off, let me know.

So, what you're thinking is the masonry needs weep holes? Or has them and that's the issue?


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## nealtw (Nov 20, 2015)

I am thinking water is traped beween the rock and the foundation, well I am hoping anyway.

There is a gap at the top of the foundation wall it is 1 1/2 inches high and 3/4 inches deep. On both sides of the deck I would like yopu to drill some holes, maybe 1/2" or as big as you can with whateer drill you have.
I would like those holes to be drill so you hit that gap space..
So if you total floor is 9", I would have expected  8 1/2 but there might be plywood in there too. So 9" plus the 1 1/2" for the rotted 2x6 and plus 3/4" to get in the gap.
Drill holes 11 1/4" below the door frame or 6 3/4" below the level of the deck on both sides and hopefully you find water there, either way, do your test with water again and cross your fingers for luck.

Check my math.


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## slownsteady (Nov 20, 2015)

> The problem as I see it is masonry used for siding should have weep holes at the bottom, because it absorbs water and weeps to the inside and drains down between the house and masonry and drains out the problem.
> So for starters we want to give water a place to go.


The OP had stated that the water was directed down at the concrete landing and that the leak was immediate. That seems pretty clear that the siding isn't involved.


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## nealtw (Nov 22, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> The OP had stated that the water was directed down at the concrete landing and that the leak was immediate. That seems pretty clear that the siding isn't involved.



It is clear now that the wood wasn't protected from the concrete with steel or it has rusted thru. and there should hae been drains above the step for possible water around the door.. I suspect the steps hae moved slightly taking away the slope that should have been there and trapping the water against the house,

With the wood rotted away the water should be falling into the pore strip area and finding it's way out. Hopefully the hole on each side will help that and we can look at the fix.


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## nealtw (Nov 25, 2015)

aanieze said:


> For the measurements: the door sill is 6 inches from the top of the concrete patio (4.5 inches from the bottom of that little piece of wood). The floor joists are 7 inches tall and from the top of the floor to the bottom of the floor joist was 9 inches. Measuring everything together was a little tricky, so if 9 inches seems off, let me know.
> 
> So, what you're thinking is the masonry needs weep holes? Or has them and that's the issue?



How did you make out?


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