# Pump Basement Natural Spring in to City Sewer?



## markfothebeast (Jan 24, 2017)

I've read about it being illegal to have a sump pump routed to a city sewer drain in the home but how about a natural spring in the basement? 

Yes, this basement has a 55 gallon plastic drum with the bottom cut out embeded in the concrete that fills with spring water. I've never seen anything like this before. It fills up and the pump kicks on. It than enters a plastic bin on the other end of the basement where the water evaporates over time. 

I'd like to eliminate this long pump hose running across the basement as well as the plastic bin that the water evaporates in. I'd like to run it to directly to PVC pipe and drain it into the home drainage where the water will go to the city sewer. It only appears to be 10-15 gallons over a period of a few days or so in the spring time. Most other times it doesn't get too high where it floods the basement or bin.

This is my buddy's place that I'm doing a bit of work on. It's a late 1800's home. There's even a big tunnel that a woodchuck dug in to a basement dirt wall to access the spring water! I had to giggle when I heard that. I'm always on lookout for a woodchuck coming out of there.


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## bud16415 (Jan 24, 2017)

In most towns, it is not allowed. I have seen many hooked up that way and it is not allowed.


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## jmr106 (Jan 24, 2017)

A lot of people still do it anyway, but as far as I know, that is illegal in all states of the USA and probably in Canada, too. The reason why we're so sure is because the cities have figured out people were rigging their sump pumps to drain into the city sewers. When it is already coming a pouring rain and you get untold thousands of people in a city with sump pumps coming on every few minutes and regular rain water plus the waste water all headed for the treatment plant, that's a severe overload. Can you do it? Lots of people still do it even though it is against the law, just like so many other things. At least, until they get caught.

If he goes to sell that place later or requires an inspection for some reason and the inspector sees that, there will probably be a massive fine and a mandate for it to be changed. The bottom of a plastic 55 gallon drum, eh? That's original. I have a crappy setup too, but its in the crawlspace. Way, way more water flow than that. I wish they would let me pump directly to the sewer, but I have to discharge out into the yard. In the city of 20,000 or so that I'm in (and that's a small city for here), the sewers already have trouble keeping up with the water. I'd imagine that's the case in most of the country given how "rigged" virtually everything is nowadays from what people did in the old days. Honestly, with that little bit of water in your case, I'd probably put a little drywell further out in the yard somewhere and just pipe to it underground so that it isn't a yard obstacle to trip over. If it is only during the summer when you get water in it, then worrying about the pump discharge pipe freezing in the ground wouldn't really be an issue.


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## nealtw (Jan 24, 2017)

markfothebeast said:


> I've read about it being illegal to have a sump pump routed to a city sewer drain in the home but how about a natural spring in the basement?
> 
> Yes, this basement has a 55 gallon plastic drum with the bottom cut out embeded in the concrete that fills with spring water. I've never seen anything like this before. It fills up and the pump kicks on. It than enters a plastic bin on the other end of the basement where the water evaporates over time.
> 
> ...



Is there a storm system or open drainage ditches?
Or what would happen if you just dumped it out in the yard, away from the house.


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## Gary (Jan 24, 2017)

Odd thing when we first moved here (the town was much smaller) it was encouraged to dump rain run off into the sewer to keep it moving. There was a large pond north of town, sarcastically called "Flushing Bay" that served as the treatment plant. Since then "Flushing Bay" has been abandoned & a modern water treatment facility has been built so that's no longer allowed here anymore either. We do have storm sewers here that you can dump your sump water in however, (strictly rain water) but that's a different deal than the sewer system. We have very sandy soil here. If you just drain it away from the house, it will find it's way back through the sand as fast as you can pump it out.


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## slownsteady (Jan 24, 2017)

Has he had the water tested? An artesian well in the basement could be a big plus if you can route the water to usable location.


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## markfothebeast (Jan 24, 2017)

The reason I started doing work on this basement is because the city water is so hard that it ruined the water heater, toilet, and copper plumbing lines. It began as a toilet and water heater replacement job but I noticed there was no expansion tank and thus a 4 year old water heater was destroyed. 

I considered that he possibly use the spring water but he said that the city would not allow it. I'm not sure why but I think it may run dry real fast.

There is a run off ditch about half an acre behind the house but nothing on the roadside. The house is near the peak of a hill so the water has a tendency to run into the basement.

The drain had been run outside in the summer However, the basement WAS uninsulated around the rim joists and caused the pipes to freeze about 3 weeks ago. So I've been insulating the rim joists and sealing the leaks. The drain pipe is about 40' long and was run out the basement window. That isn't an option in sub zero temps.

I did ask today about tee'ing the pump into a drain pipe and he agreed that it would be ideal and that it isn't a legal concern as it is simply spring water.


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## markfothebeast (Jan 24, 2017)

I wish I'd had photos of the spring. I call this house "A Nightmare on Maple Street".


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## nealtw (Jan 24, 2017)

http://www.joneakes.com/jons-fixit-...p-a-shallow-Sump-drain-from-freezing-outdoors


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## markfothebeast (Jan 26, 2017)

How would you go about plumbing in a drain for the pump without a floor drain?

I can tap in to one of several 1-1/2" PVC drain pipes that are running horizontally to the main drain. All drains as well as the main are at least 4' above basement floor level. 

*Tapping into drain pipe*
Sanitary tee->90 elbow->p trap-> (sealed or air gap between pump drain tube?)

Do I need an air gap or can I make a direct sealed connection to the pump? The pump is 5'+ below the drain pipe height. I'd prefer to have it sealed if possible. I don't want any water splashing around near the ceiling. Ceiling height is about 5'.


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## slownsteady (Jan 26, 2017)

First make sure the pump can handle the rise (vertical push). Second, make sure you have a check valve in the setup.


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## nealtw (Jan 26, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> First make sure the pump can handle the rise (vertical push). Second, make sure you have a check valve in the setup.



If he has a check valve that holds water he wouldn't need a trap would he?


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## slownsteady (Jan 26, 2017)

As far as I know, that would be true. my softener discharge has only a check valve. I don't think a trap would work as siphoning would defeat the trap.


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## markfothebeast (Feb 6, 2017)

Do pumps usually have a check valve built in? I read that these do but I have no idea. The current pump has a 40' corrugated 1-1/2" plastic line that pumps straight upward for about 5' and turns with three 90s and finally to a barrel where the water eventually evaporates. 

Here's the spring barrel.


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## nealtw (Feb 6, 2017)

No the check valve is plumbed into the pipe. Evaporating in the house is a bad idea.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=sump...ved=0ahUKEwjIlr_p8vzRAhUX_mMKHXhBA54Q_AUIBygC


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## slownsteady (Feb 7, 2017)

three 90º bends? That's 270º and you're getting close to a full circle.

Some pumps have a built-in check valve.


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