# Broken Footing Under Sunroom



## JTSomm77 (Apr 1, 2016)

Greetings.

I bought a house in northern Minnesota recently. It was built in 1983 but had a sunroom added about 8 years ago. It looks like they did a nice job overall but one of the footings underneath the beam is broken up, leaving the post very little material to rest on (see photos).

My first question is, is this something I should be concerned about? The home inspector didn't seem to think so and suggested I just leave it alone because he thought there was a steel rod going all the way through the post. (I doubt it). I also noticed that the patio door directly above this does not close squarely. It seems logical to assume this is related. You can also see a spacer on top of this post, which makes me think this might have been adjusted before. (The other posts do not have spacers).

I am considering jacking up the beam a bit, forming a mold around the footing, patching it in with an epoxy cement, and putting in a new post. Does this sound feasible or should the entire footing be dug out and replaced. There is about 2.5 to 3 feet of clearance under the sunroom, so that would not be fun.

I would sincerely appreciate any advice. I consider myself a novice DIYer but will tackle almost anything with enough research and info.

Thank you in advance!
Jeff


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## bud16415 (Apr 1, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. 

I would do just what you suggested. It looks like the damage is just at the top. 

Maybe put a steel ring around it to act like a form and keep the cracking from happening again. Just leave it on after the pour.


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## nealtw (Apr 1, 2016)

The fact that it appears to have moved is a bigger concern.
With a deck people often make a mistake when they dig a whole and shove a tube in it and fill it with concrete and then back fill around it. They would be better off filling the hole with concrete and just use the tube for the top foot so the undisturbed soil can support the post sideways.
Now they have built a building on top so at the bottom of that concrete post there should be a bigger footing to give it a bigger foot print to spread the load.
Depending on where you are the depth of the bottom of that footing should be below frost level. You can just google frost level for you closest city.
The damage on top of the post is usually caused when someone peels the paper off before the concrete is old enough. It looks like there is an adjustment thing on top of the wood posts so that would make me think this is an ongoing problem and should be dug into some more.

The other thing I see is the bottom of the deck appears to be covered with plywood and likely has insulation above that. That should have had vented soffet under there to allow the structure to breath to prevent moisture build up, which will cause mold or rot.


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## beachguy005 (Apr 1, 2016)

The way I see it is this.  They used what appear to be 4x4 posts that just sit on the concrete and jammed under the beam, unattached.  I would dig for larger sonotubes, use 6x6 posts attached to the concrete with stand-offs and brackets nailed to the beam.
As for venting, I wouldn't bother.  Where is any moisture going to come from?

This is what the supports should look like.

https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/27653/how-should-i-build-the-concrete-footings-for-my-deck


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## Sparky617 (Apr 1, 2016)

In Minnesota I'd bet your footers need to be at least 48".   A Dingo with an auger would allow you to install new footers with the limited headroom.

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/detail/1351/0490028/indingoin-auger-head/

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/items/1352/ride-on-skidsteer-loader/


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## joecaption (Apr 1, 2016)

No seeing anything that would have ever passed an inspection in my area.
Would not even pass for a just a deck.
Wrong size post and base.
No way would whatever that thing is at the top of the post resting under the beam pass anyplace on the planet.  
The picture Beachguy posted is what it should have looked like.


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## JTSomm77 (Apr 2, 2016)

A big thank you to all of you for your replies!  This is all not great news but not at all unexpected.  (Good information is always good news!)  We have a frost depth of up to 60" in this part of MN!  I will take a combination of all of your advice and dig new footings in the spring (June in this part of the country), ensure the footings have the proper flare at the bottom, install 6x6 posts with anchors, attach them to the beam and rest assured that the I won't wake up one day to find the sunroom slanting to the north.  The Dingo with auger should work great.  I will be sure to post the project here.

Thanks again!!  I sincerely appreciate all of the input!!
Jeff


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## JTSomm77 (Sep 16, 2016)

I just wanted to follow up on the sunroom footing. (Better late than never!)  
I consulted a few contractors who, in the end, threw their hands up without tearing apart the sunroom.  Since there is not enough clearance under the sunroom to get an auger in to dig deeper footings, one guy suggested pulling the gravel back, laying down thick foam insulation, and replacing the gravel.  The thought was to try to minimize the frost going into the ground in that area.  Not sure how much benefit this would provide as there is already insulation under there. (Someone obviously thought of this before.)
I also noticed that the previous homeowner had the downspouts draining right next to the footings, so I added extensions of at least 10 feet to move water away.  This should help.
I also found out that the sunroom was also a deck in its previous life and the walls and ceiling were added about 7 years ago.  Support footing were added at that time for the additional weight.
Regarding the odd extension piece on top of the post in the photo, it spears that was added after the post heaved up.  They cut the top of the post off and added this piece which allows for adjustment of the height.  Clever, maybe, but not ideal.
In summary, in order to dig the footings deep enough, or use some other method to better anchor them, the sunroom would have to be torn down and re-built.  Since the only issue is that it bobs up and down slightly during freeze/thaw, I re-set the broken  concrete footing to ensure the post does not slip and will leave this for another day.

Thanks to everyone again for your insights and suggestions!!
- Jeff


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## bud16415 (Sep 16, 2016)

JTSomm77 said:


> I just wanted to follow up on the sunroom footing. (Better late than never!)
> I consulted a few contractors who, in the end, threw their hands up without tearing apart the sunroom.  Since there is not enough clearance under the sunroom to get an auger in to dig deeper footings, one guy suggested pulling the gravel back, laying down thick foam insulation, and replacing the gravel.  The thought was to try to minimize the frost going into the ground in that area.  Not sure how much benefit this would provide as there is already insulation under there. (Someone obviously thought of this before.)
> I also noticed that the previous homeowner had the downspouts draining right next to the footings, so I added extensions of at least 10 feet to move water away.  This should help.
> I also found out that the sunroom was also a deck in its previous life and the walls and ceiling were added about 7 years ago.  Support footing were added at that time for the additional weight.
> ...



I had a similar problem with our entry mud room that started life as a little porch that got covered in and heated. The couple bad winters we had raised Cain with the door. I asked an old timer what he thought who had done a lot of building and he said we had to hand dig down and set the footings a good 2 deeper. I asked him wouldnt it be easier to add 2 of dirt on top. He thought about that a few minutes and said I think it will work. Thats what I did and last winter wasnt as cold but didnt see any movement. We will see this year. 

Thanks for posting back most dont and it is nice to find out what happened. Good luck this winter.


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## nealtw (Sep 16, 2016)

You have to love contractors that don't have clue.
I would have cribbed it up and got a tiny back hoe in there and started on the outside and it would dig it out like a trench to the post, rip it out and replace it.
That is after I was sure the post could not be just moved to the ends of the beam.
Bud's idea would work and if you do that wrap the post with a peal and stick first to keep water out of it.
I have crawled under a house with 2' of clearance and dug down four ft to find solid ground to put a footing in for a support post.


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## beachguy005 (Sep 16, 2016)

Any contractor that tells you it can't be done is either lying to you, is too lazy to do it or is just too stupid to figure it out.  You just use temporary bracing a few feet on either side and hand dig it. You can even dig out a larger area next to the post to work from. Say a 3'x3' area down 1' will give you 4' of headroom. Dig around the old footing, drag it out and enlarge the hole for a proper footing.


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