# Fuse Box Hygiene



## applebear (Sep 3, 2014)

When I moved into this house, there was this little box in the shower. I didn't think to open it, and honestly I was afraid to for years...it was a bit painted shut, so I didn't try real hard either. 

Finally doing some work in back room that causes a fuse to blow, and we are baffled as we try to fix the problem in the fuse box down in the basement and couldn't find the fuse to get the power back on. We snoop around a bit, "What's in the little box in the shower?" Yeah, that's right...some genius built the shower around the fuse box.

When trying to insure my home, fuse box needs updated to at least 100 amp [it's apparently 60]. 

So it finally looks like I am getting to that point I can do the fuse box, but it's def hasn't been a fun process. I called in MANY electricians for this one because the price quotes have been extremely high....that's not changing. 

Most of them are recommending 100amp and just covering the box in bathroom with something safer...due to how it's setup, there's really no way to move it and they said they really aren't 'suppose' to do it that way, but it's really the only option. The last estimate said they could flip the box to the outside of the house and put it in a weatherproof box and lead it down so it controls from one main breaker. 

My question is, does that sound reasonable? All the others said it had to stay in the shower. Also, should I go for 100 or 200 amp? My house is very small, and right now I really have nothing that requires 200...but would be nice in the case that changed down road. My concerns are of course price...it goes from 1500ish for 100 and then leaps up to 2200 for 200.


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## bud16415 (Sep 3, 2014)

From your other thread your house looks quite small and 100 amp should be good IMO. No way should there be anything remotely like a fuse box of even a connection box located like that. The one flipping it around seems like the only guy to give it any thought. I would think with a proper box rated for outdoors and getting the fuses out of it and just using it as a junction box that would meet code. Pros will be along with other thoughts on that. They will also be able to give you an idea on cost if you tell us the area you live in.


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## applebear (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks again Bud. To me, flipping it out sounds like the best plan and I was a bit surprised none of the others suggested it. 

I am located in Iowa. I am finding out that the wire leading out from my house is bare and out of code. The roofers laid it directly on my house instead of back on the little nub sitting there for it...but it's still out of code even if they placed it 'correctly.' 

I am sadly finding out they have to put a hole in my roof and lead the wire up through a pipe. Which, in the end, is good...just admit, I wasn't keen with another hole.


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## beachguy005 (Sep 3, 2014)

You definitely want a service entrance mast where you feed the house, up off the roof.  As for the box in the shower, flipping it outside is good if you don't mind having the junction box out there.  Consider pulling it out completely and re-running the circuit properly.
As for 100 vs 200 amp service, you need to look down the road a bit.  HVAC, pool, hot tub?  Large load items. Most appliances made nowadays are much more energy efficient.


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## applebear (Sep 3, 2014)

beachguy005 said:


> You definitely want a service entrance mast where you feed the house, up off the roof.  As for the box in the shower, flipping it outside is good if you don't mind having the junction box out there.  Consider pulling it out completely and re-running the circuit properly.
> As for 100 vs 200 amp service, you need to look down the road a bit.  HVAC, pool, hot tub?  Large load items. Most appliances made nowadays are much more energy efficient.



I asked them if they could do something like that and they say there is some reason they can't...maybe they are thinking of expense, I'm not sure. I don't mind the box on outside, as long as I can control everything from the basement and it sounds like that is what they are going to do [I'll be double checking to be sure].

The most I see down the road is in the appliance area...my dryer is old and maybe I'll look at electric when it dies. But those are about the max in items, would be appliance or something I have currently and replace [from gas to electric]. I am putting in a new furnace and central a/c...furnace will be gas, and I am new to central a/c.


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## nealtw (Sep 3, 2014)

I would want to know the cost difference and the reason why 200 amp wouldn't work. Do you have grounded plugs now?


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## beachguy005 (Sep 3, 2014)

As noted above... it's an adder of about $700.00 to go to 200 amp.  I would bite the bullet and go for the 200.  You'll always have it and it's a selling feature.  Most of the additional cost is for the larger size needed for the service wire.


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## applebear (Sep 4, 2014)

200 amp will work, is just quite a jump in price. But, I think Beachguy is right...may be worth it just to bite the bullet and go for it. May have to cut something else out to swing it, we'll see.


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## WyrTwister (Sep 4, 2014)

As to the fuse box in the shower , turning it to the outside & patch the shower ( very water tight ) .

     Ask about the cost for a 150 amp service ?

     The prices you have discussed sound a lot less than we would charge .

     Keep in mind , once you start on an electrical upgrade , it can be sometimes difficult , code wise , finding a place to stop .

     I would try to put all the circuit breakers on the outside in a rain tight loadcenter .  And the meter base .

     What is it about wanting everything in the basement ?  Did I mis-read that ?

God bless
WyrTwister


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## applebear (Sep 4, 2014)

The price is so high because of all they have to do, and yes a lot of city stuff included in that. City has to come to house and approve, etc.. I'll ask about the 150. 

The meter base is all ready on the outside, and they mentioned moving it closer to the ground because it's like 7 feet up. I don't care if they put a box out there and weatherproof it [which is currently the plan], I just want the breaker part itself in the basement and I would like to get away from the two separate spots of control.


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## Wuzzat? (Sep 5, 2014)

applebear said:


> 200 amp will work, is just quite a jump in price. But, I think Beachguy is right...may be worth it just to bite the bullet and go for it. May have to cut something else out to swing it, we'll see.


You may want to call your PoCo.  Your power grid may be able to deliver 200 amp and 240v +/- 5% or 10% to your service only part of the time, perhaps depending on what power your neighbors are pulling.

And you can normalize your bids by dividing the bid price by the amps you are getting.  There might be a minimum, depending on supply and demand in your area.


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## speedy petey (Sep 6, 2014)

Wuzzat? said:


> You may want to call your PoCo.  Your power grid may be able to deliver 200 amp and 240v +/- 5% or 10% to your service only part of the time, perhaps depending on what power your neighbors are pulling.


HUH??? 
And if that were the case they'd do what they needed to correct the problem. 
Also, just because you installed a 200A service that does not mean the load changed AT ALL. Unless of course your service upgrade coincides with major renovations/additions, or the addition of something like an electric whole house insta-hot water heater.




Wuzzat? said:


> And you can normalize your bids by dividing the bid price by the amps you are getting.  There might be a minimum, depending on supply and demand in your area.


Um...no. That is NOT a "normalizing" strategy. You will get skewed numbers.
I typically get around $1700 for a 100A service, but around $210-2200 for a 200A. What does that do to your theory? 
The cost difference is minimal between 100A and 200A in the scope of things. This also places the 150A service squarely in the _"WHY in the world would you bother"_ category.


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## Wuzzat? (Sep 6, 2014)

I thought I'd be hearing from you   It was just a question of, How soon?


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## bud16415 (Sep 6, 2014)

Misapplying math to any problem reduces the overall effectiveness of mathematics. Ratios are great but don't always apply just because you have common know things. If you want to analyze stuff with math then make the factors complex enough to hold truth in the conclusion. 

As to 150 amp box as being useless it's like having 4 sizes of drinks at a fast food place and offering free refills. Or why do we still have 6 cyl cars. 4 or 8 should be enough. There is nothing wrong with a range of things. I personally would say in today's world 150 amp should be the starting box and forget 200 and jump to 300. In its day 60 seemed to be enough for all the experts. I have a 200 amp box and have been looking at hot tubs lately. They want 50 just for a tub. 


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair


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## applebear (Sep 6, 2014)

If it helps any, my house is running off 60 now and I have no issues with power going out or something blowing when I plug a bunch of things in, etc [granted I'm a little out of date myself...don't even have a tv, pretty doubtful I'll ever have a hot tub]. 

100 would probably suffice, but I think I will still be either asking about 150 or just going to 200. If anything, 10 years down the road when insurance and power companies decide to up the codes to 150 amp [we'll probably be charging our battery operated, flying cars by then]...I'm not in some pickle like I was with 60 [which was probably efficient back in it's day].


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## Wuzzat? (Sep 6, 2014)

Since the average U.S. house pulls a kw, the service should be for one kw and the very infrequent 50 kw peak loads would be handled by the flywheel/generator arrangement in your basement.  
It spins at 100,000 RPM and runs in a vacuum chamber with mag bearings.  The axis is vertical so that if the flywheel flies into pieces the only thing destroyed is your basement [GE ran motor tests in the basement with the axes horizontal and so when one of their motors exploded, a large chunk landed on a desk on an upper floor].  :trophy:




applebear said:


> If it helps any, my house is running off 60 now and I have no issues with power going out or something blowing when I plug a bunch of things in, etc [granted I'm a little out of date myself...don't even have a tv, pretty doubtful I'll ever have a hot tub].
> 
> 100 would probably suffice, but I think I will still be either asking about 150 or just going to 200. If anything, 10 years down the road when insurance and power companies decide to up the codes to 150 amp [we'll probably be charging our battery operated, flying cars by then]...I'm not in some pickle like I was with 60 [which was probably efficient back in it's day].



It's an interesting decision problem.  
If you personally are never going to sell then don't upgrade.  
If you are going to sell then what percent of your upgrade investment will you get back on the sale?

As to your 10 year 'investment horizon', half the people move after seven years, and almost all by 14 years.  My two data points, anecdotal and therefore virtually meaningless, are that our dental receptionist has stayed 40 years in her house and we've stayed since '92.



speedy petey said:


> I typically get around $1700 for a 100A service, but around $210-2200 for a 200A. What does that do to your theory?


It says Economy of Scale applies to you.  
I plotted HD string trimmer prices vs. motor amps drawn, and you actually got more amps for less money with the smaller units.  
So, no economy of scale here and so I picked the one next to the cheapest, which their pricing strategy encouraged me to do [assuming I didn't make the common mistake of equating higher price with higher quality].


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## applebear (Sep 6, 2014)

Though I was bullied into this house originally, I really don't like moving and was only looking to do so [currently] to get away from family and into a better living situation. I've been here 10 years, have a for sale sign in my yard as we speak...but it's been on market long time and the more I look out of town for places, the more I saw the living situation wasn't going to improve [houses like mine cost over double what mine does, and need just as much work so...].

Since it now looks like I'll be staying, it has to be upgraded regardless, it's out of date/code [as well as unsafe]...so I guess I'm just looking at it, as 'you never know.' It's unlikely I will move any time soon after doing so much work to my house, but I won't say 'never,' either.


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## speedy petey (Sep 6, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> As to 150 amp box as being useless it's like having 4 sizes of drinks at a fast food place and offering free refills. Or why do we still have 6 cyl cars. 4 or 8 should be enough. There is nothing wrong with a range of things. I personally would say in today's world 150 amp should be the starting box and forget 200 and jump to 300. In its day 60 seemed to be enough for all the experts. I have a 200 amp box and have been looking at hot tubs lately. They want 50 just for a tub.


Thing is, 300A service equipment is not nearly "standard". You will NOT find a 300A panel at a home center, or even most supply houses. 

Residentially 100, 150 and 200A are "standard" sizes. Many new homes are installing 320/400A services. Thing is, these are almost always two 200A panels. Installing one 400A panel is silly because you'll still need sub-panels, and 400A panels are prohibitively expensive.


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## speedy petey (Sep 6, 2014)

Wuzzat? said:


> I thought I'd be hearing from you   It was just a question of, How soon?


Well, I post to this board just like you. Is that a problem?
Thing is, I like to stick to forums I am a professional in. IOW you'll not likely see me posting in the plumbing forum much.


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## Wuzzat? (Sep 6, 2014)

speedy petey said:


> Is that a problem?


Had an officemate like you, once.  He thought he was John Wayne.   

I handled him in the only way he was not prepared to deal with; I didn't speak to him at all.
It took him 18 months to find another officemate.  BTW, within a short time he assaulted the new guy (who was an attorney) but this was covered up by his supervisor.



speedy petey said:


> Thing is, I like to stick to forums I am a professional in. IOW you'll not likely see me posting in the plumbing forum much.


I go on forums where I believe I can help the OP in a general or in a specific way.  
I do not contradict other replies unless they are really off the mark 
http://www.google.com/search?client...ns+but+not+their+own+facts"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
and, as always, it is the OP's choice as to who to believe.

There were only one or two electricians on Mike Holt's Forum who liked me.  Most others were silent and some hated me, I assume out of jealousy.


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## speedy petey (Sep 6, 2014)

Wuzzat? said:


> Had an officemate *like you*, once.  He thought he was John Wayne.
> 
> I handled him in the only way he was not prepared to deal with; I didn't speak to him at all.
> It took him 18 months to find another officemate.  BTW, within a short time he assaulted the new guy (who was an attorney) but this was covered up by his supervisor.


And I find people "like you" funny. You think you know me so well from a few message board posts that you compare me to your former office mate with such accuracy. 
I'll deal with you the way I deal with other people like you: I'll let you think whatever you want, knowing to myself that you are clueless. 
Shhhhh, don't tell yourself. You'll never know. :banana:


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