# Why is my house so Hot!?!



## 269afemur (May 13, 2011)

Hey guys, I am new here and this is my first post.

I was hoping someone here would be able to tell me why our house is so hot in the warmer months, not just in the summer. We have no shade trees, and most of the windows are on the North or South walls. We seem to get very little amount of breeze, maybe because we are in town and other houses are close by.

It is typically much warmer inside our house than it is outside. The other day it was 65 outside but the thermostat said 75, and that was with the windows open. Of course the furnace is turned down to 55, but somedays it feels like it is still running because it is so hot inside. Even the basement feels hot when it gets really warm outside. We do have one ceiling fan that does seem to help a little.

The house is about 900 square feet with no upper level, and was built probably in the forties or fifties. The overhangs are very small and there are no vents in them. There are three gable ends to the roof, and two have a vent in it. The vents are small, probably about 8x13 maybe. There are no roof vents. I am not sure how much insulation is in the attic. We do get some pretty big icicles in the winter. 

I am wondering if the attic needs to be vented better, and possibly more insulation? I know that would help with utilitiy bills and the icicles, but would it help with the heat inside the house in the warmer weather too?   
What about an attic fan, or some kind of radiant barrier? 
Thanks for your help.


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## oldognewtrick (May 13, 2011)

Welcome to House Repair Talk. Yes you need to install ventilation and probably insulation. Ventilation will work as intake at the lowest point on the roof and exhaust at the highest. Call a couple roofing contractors and get a professional opinion of what will be required to provide a proper ventilation system.


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## 269afemur (May 13, 2011)

Thats kind of what I was thinking. I am just wondering how to put vents in at the bottom of the roof when the soffit is so small. It's only about 5 to 6 inches. The weird angle and as close as it is to the house will make getting a saw or drill in there pretty challenging. 
Thanks for the input. Getting some professional advice is also a good idea since their estimates will be free.


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## joecaption (May 14, 2011)

Recommended Levels of Insulation : ENERGY STAR

There needs to be soffit and ridge vents. No good way to tell you what needs to be done without a picture of what you have now.
That whole area that you say is only about 5 or 6" could have been vented with vinyl soffit vents and coil stock on the fashias to hold it up.


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## nealtw (May 14, 2011)

If you remove the gutter you can get to the 1x6 soffit and change that to perfferated soffit and replace the gutter, put roof vents on one side of the peak and close the gable vents.


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## joecaption (May 15, 2011)

Not sure where nealtw is getting his info, but removing the gutters will do nothing, the gutters are mounted to the fashia not the soffit. The vents need to go in the soffit area.
Rooftop, Soffit, and Gable Vents
There's bunch of differant way to get venting into that area. If it's an old house with soild wood or plywood then using a self feeding auger bit that's 3 or 4" in diam. using a right angle 1/2 drill, you could just pop in some round vents in between each rafter bay. But you must make sure there's no insulation out over the soffit area in the attic that will block the flow of air.


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## nealtw (May 15, 2011)

removing the gutter just gives you room to work without wrecking the gutter.


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## 269afemur (May 15, 2011)

What would be the best type of vent to put in the top of the roof? Ridge vents or the old style vents that are about 12 by 12. I would think ridge vent, but we are on a bgudget, and the old kind would be cheaper, and maybe quicker.

Currently we have about 5 inches of blown in insulation in the attic. How much should there be? I was thinking of going with another 7-8 inches. Will the insulation help with the heat inside the house during the summer, or is that more what the vents will help with? Or maybe we need both to keep the house cooler in the warmer months.

I was just thinkning to help with the budget, to do the venting now, and wait until fall to add in the insulation.


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## nealtw (May 15, 2011)

Cutting holes or removing soffit board will not help if every bay is full of blown in insulation unless you add airflow shoots and bats to hold back the blown in which would help with ice in the winter. For summer heat adding roof vents may help a little only if you move the gable vents to the lowest corners of the gables and create some crossflow.


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## 269afemur (May 16, 2011)

I called a contractor today and he suggested a fan for one of the gable vents. He said these work well in situations where you have little venting in the attic, and will help to keep airflow moving and the attic much cooler. 
Does anyone have an opinion on this type of fan? Would it be a good way to go, or would the money be better spent on putting in actual vents.

I should add that I am not even sure if I can put in soffit vents it's a very small over hang and it's all covered in aluminum coil so I can't see what I am going to be going through.


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## oldognewtrick (May 16, 2011)

Do a search for Lomanco, Inc., Ventilation, Ventilators, Vents, Whirlybirds, Intake Vents, Exhaust Vents, Foundation Vents, Attic ventilation or http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/index.shtml they both mfg a drip edge vent made for the introduction of air into attics with little or no soffit area.


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## nealtw (May 16, 2011)

Broan: Attic Ventilation


check this out, the have solar powered fans.


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## oldognewtrick (May 16, 2011)

Neal, any power vent system will cavatate if you do not have adequate intake ventilation along the soffit.


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## nealtw (May 16, 2011)

I kinda think this is one of those houses built without a soffit board and actually has blocking between the rafters. I'm not sure there is a good answer for a tight budget.


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## oldognewtrick (May 17, 2011)

If the house has open rafters at the wall, the are vents that are installed between the courses of shingles above the wall. Smart Vent makes a product for just this application.

SmartVent by DCI - The #1 Choice for Attic Intake Ventilation


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## nealtw (May 17, 2011)

I like that one!


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## inspectorD (May 17, 2011)

Ok, my 2cents,
A few things to look for with the Smartvent to prevent serious trouble from icedamns.
make sure that there is enough room at the framing of the bottom of the rafter for enough insulation.Do not pack it in.
The other is make sure the venting at the top is good and open.

I would remove any gable vents from the equation also.


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## UnequivocallyM (May 18, 2011)

inspectorD said:


> ..
> make sure that there is enough room at the framing of the bottom of the rafter for enough insulation. Do not pack it in.
> The other is make sure the venting at the top is good and open.



I second this, one of the problems we've run into in our home as well as a family member's home was having the insulation jammed right down the rafters to the soffits, which was causing all kinds of trouble. 

Check to make sure none of the soffits have been boarded over (seen this in older homes before) from the attic side -- if they have you can either elect to remove the boards or drill ventilation through them. As a rule of thumb you should be able to see some daylight from your soffits inside the attic.


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## Perry525 (May 23, 2011)

Lets look at this a different way!

Your home is hot during the warmer months and cold during the winter because of the way it was built.

I would guess that it is a typical light weight American home with a wooden frame that is joined to the roof and walls on one side and the comfort zone on the other.

When the sun shines on the roof and walls the heat is conducted straight into the home.

In the heating season the warm air in the rooms is conducted to the outside via the wood frame.

I suggest you buy a Infrared temperature gun gauge and use it to read the temperature of the roof and walls. All you do is point it at whatever you want to measure and squeeze the trigger, the temperature shows instantly.

Go round the outside of your home reading the temperatures, then do the same on the inside, this will pinpoint the places where the heat is arriving.

Once you know the problem, the solution is simple.

Either take off the outside of your home, roof and sidings, fit about five inches of polystyrene sheet over the frame and replace the roof and sidings, or take off the dry wall, install the polystyrene on the inside and replace the drywall.

Either of the procedures will solve your problem, the outside solution is more work and will change the look of your home, the inside solution is less work, uses less material and will be cheaper and quicker and it will save you more money when heating or cooling your home.


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## 269afemur (May 24, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> If the house has open rafters at the wall, the are vents that are installed between the courses of shingles above the wall. Smart Vent makes a product for just this application.
> 
> SmartVent by DCI - The #1 Choice for Attic Intake Ventilation



I like the smartvent, but I am hoping not to have to put a roof on this house before we sell it.

I have been thinking of a powervent. Has anyone used one of these?


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## oldognewtrick (May 24, 2011)

Power vents work well when they are working, but they have a tendency to burn the motors out after 6-8 years. Ventilation is a 2 part equation and exhaust vents will only be functional if you have intake ventilation to support it.


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## Perry525 (May 25, 2011)

I wonder why the fixation on the roof ventilation?

Yes you can replace the hot air in the attic with more hot air from outside, yes if you stand in the path of blown air, because it removes the moisture/sweat from your skin you feel cooler, but this does not effect/lower the heat that is conducted and radiated from the outside through the frame and into your home.

Wood doesn't have feelings, it doesn't feel cooler because hot air is blowing past, like we do!

If you want an exhaust fan to cool, it must be pulling colder air from somewhere, and how will it find cold air when the source is roof height?

And....what effect does an exhaust fan in the roof have on the heat arriving through your walls? Will it be pulling cooler air from inside the home, that will be replaced by hotter air from outside.

To get the desired effect, you  must block the sun, grow some shade, paint the roof silver or white to reflect the radiation, insulate.

To have a miner effect the cold air source must at least arrive from the shaded part of the home, preferably at ground level.

Powerful exhaust fans cost a lot to buy, they cost a lot to run and if the replacement  air supply into the roof space is not easily available, constricted supply, then they are always struggling to pull outside air into the roof and they quickly burn out.


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## oldognewtrick (May 25, 2011)

Perry, I agree with you. Fixation on ventilation is about replacing very hot air with less hot air. I've been in attics that have been in the 130's and it takes your breath away to crawl through them. If you allow the very hot air to escape and replace it with outside air you can decrease the temperature in the attic and reduce the convection into the house. Vent MFG's recommend setting the fans at about 112'. 

I am a roofing contractor by trade and have had men working on non-ventilated roof decks that have had structural failure from heat, not water. Extremely high temps will cause the wood structure to dry out to the point of being brittle. Plywood will de-laminate and turn into cardboard. Rafters will crack and split. Wood may not have feelings but it sure doesn't like a hot/dry environment to live in. 

Is ventilation a perfect solution for reducing heat transfer into a structure? NO. Can the average homeowner afford to retrofit their homes to near perfect conditions. Probably not. Sometimes,_ better_ is the best we can hope for.


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## nealtw (May 27, 2011)

In extreme heat of the attic the lumber drys out and with out venting it stays in the attic air untill the weather changes and all that moisture is deposited back on surface of the insulation and lowers its R value. When your in an attic at 130 degrees that hot air from out feels pretty cool. Lumber was a living thing and it will live a long time if it is treated like it has feelings.


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## Perry525 (May 28, 2011)

nealtw said:


> In extreme heat of the attic the lumber drys out and with out venting it stays in the attic air until the weather changes and all that moisture is deposited back on surface of the insulation and lowers its R value. When your in an attic at 130 degrees that hot air from out feels pretty cool. Lumber was a living thing and it will live a long time if it is treated like it has feelings.


========================

I agree that timber gets hot, whether or not it dries is down to the relative humidity at the time.

From the time the timber leaves the kiln it starts to adapt to the average relative humidity where it is, this means increased water content during the winter/rain season and drier during the summer/dry season, obviously while the amount of water in the air varies every 24 hours between the hottest day periods and the coldest nights and the high water vapor/relative humidity levels during the night and the lows during the day there is a general drift towards drier or wetter.

I think you are writing that the moisture from the wood, stays in the attic until the weather changes with the arrival of winter or summer?

I regret to write that I disagree your comments.

This is not possible. As relative humidity levels move as day changes to night and night to day with the changes in temperature. 

The way water vapor/moisture works is that it always moves towards a colder place or surface or an area of lower pressure.

The surface temperature of the insulation in the attic will be at the same temperature as the air in the attic, most of the time.

You only get condensation, when warm wet air arrives from inside the home or from outside and the timber in the attic is cold and the surface of the insulation is cold.

Cold meaning below the Dew Point of the incoming air. Then condensation or frost is likely to form.

Most of the year, when the temperature of the attic is not below the Dew Point of the incoming warm wet air, water vapor leaves the attic and moves outside, where it is almost always cooler, and if the wind is blowing it will be at a lower air pressure, as the wind always creates an area of low pressure to the lee of a building.

The problem with fiberglass and cellulose, so called insulation, is that warm wet/humid air leaves the home, rising through the insulation, and as it does so it freezes, later the ice melts, makes the insulation wet and useless, and this provides an express route out for your expensive heat, as water is 4,000 times better at conduction heat from your home than is dry air.

This is why closed cell insulation's like Styrofoam/Blueboard/polystyrene etc are so much better in real life as they do not get wet inside, they can be covered in ice and yet they still do their job of insulating your home.


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## oldognewtrick (May 28, 2011)

Perry, I'm thinking Neal and I are saying warm, moist air from the house in the winter months collects in the attic and condenses the insulation. I personally like the idea of having a ventilated attic area. I think I understand the problems associated with fiberglass insulation. I'm not yet on the bandwagon with spray foam on the underside of the roof deck and creating conditioned area in the attic. My concern is if the roof leaks the homeowner will never know it until major damage has occurred to structure. As you have said, foam does not allow for transfer of moisture.

So, why does every application of spray foam have application to roof deck and not to the area in between the ceiling joists? It shouldn't be that difficult to fabricate a hatch to have access into the attic that seals. When we do flat roof installations, we sometimes add poly-ISO board and flat roofs are not usually vented. With a shingle roof you would basically have a structure over a flat roof if you sprayed in between the ceiling joists.


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## nealtw (May 29, 2011)

Perry your absolutly right about moister moving outside, If the roof is venting properly. I believe the house should be treated as a living, breathing beast. When they get hot with no air they swet just like people in mine shaft. If you could completely seal of an area like an attic with out air the whole top of the house would be shot in about five years. But that,s just me!!


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## ConcreteTreat (Jun 1, 2011)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Welcome to House Repair Talk. Yes you need to install ventilation and probably insulation. Ventilation will work as intake at the lowest point on the roof and exhaust at the highest. Call a couple roofing contractors and get a professional opinion of what will be required to provide a proper ventilation system.



Forgive me if I'm making a fool out of myself...

BUT.

Ventilation AND Insulation?  If you have an insulated box that's ventilated, it would no longer have value as an insulated box.  How is this different with a house?


-----

Gale
Concrete Treat:  Concrete Sealer


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## nealtw (Jun 1, 2011)

Concrete Treat, The venting is out side of the insulation so the box or attic has freash air and the house is still an insulated box.


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## ConcreteTreat (Jun 1, 2011)

nealtw said:


> Concrete Treat, The venting is out side of the insulation so the box or attic has freash air and the house is still an insulated box.



OH!  I understand now.  Thank you!

And call me Gale.


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## 269afemur (Jun 6, 2011)

After a lot of research and figuring prices, it appears that this project is a little out of our budget at this time even if we do it ourselves. 

What would happen if I just added some insulation to the attic? Would that help with keeping the house cooler? The house has survived 50 years with only two gable vents, and 5 inches of blown-in insulation, would more blown-in insulation help the problem of keeping the house cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter? Or is it the venting that will actually keep the house cooler?

Just curious, Thanks.


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## nealtw (Jun 6, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with dividing the job up to what you have time for and what you have money for. The big concern is the heat in the attic for all these years it has traveled down to the house and if you stop it there, and it has no place to go, it could over heat the roofing on the outside. I would check the temp. inside at the peak before and after insulating so you no whether to be concerned.


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## 269afemur (Jun 7, 2011)

Is there a temperature that the peak should be at?


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## nealtw (Jun 7, 2011)

I don't know what the limits would be. You are going to change the dynamics of the attic so I would think you would want to know if the temp there changed a lot, on a day with simular temp outside.


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