# Tips  when dealing with trades workers



## Jungle (Aug 20, 2014)

-Big ego
- Never admit they are wrong
- Always complaining
- always looking to take a smoke break
- hate doing things over.
- always right


How do you deal with these people?


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## Wuzzat? (Aug 20, 2014)

Jungle said:


> -Big ego
> - Never admit they are wrong
> - hate doing things over.
> - always right


These four seem to be cut from the same cloth.  

Ask the person if they believe that they are infallible.  If they say 'Yes' then they should be in the Vatican.

BTW, the people with OCD want to be perfect. . .and the people with narcissistic personality disorders believe that they have achieved perfection and are wondering why they are not showered with admiration & praise.

The good news is that *reality* attacks false beliefs in hundreds of little ways, every single day.


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## Admin (Aug 20, 2014)

I find new people to work with. There are plenty of people looking to make a buck who are talented craftsman. You don't have to tolerate that.


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## gottodo1 (Aug 20, 2014)

Wuzzat, 
        The bad news is that reality doesn't always pierce the veil of self deception in a timely manner. 

Jungle, 
        I try my best to AVOID dealing with those people, on a one on one basis usually I can deal with them, putting them in their place if necessary. I've found that asking absurdly  stupid questions and stroking their ego a bit can usually make them more pliable. Manipulation usually works best.
        The problem comes when I'm surrounded by a horde. I've often been overcome with the feeling that I'm in a locust plague and I now need to go put some blood on my door frame before I lose my son. I have the same problem with union employees due to entitlement, but that's a whole different topic. Sorry I can't be of any constructive help.


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## Chris (Aug 20, 2014)

I just fired three guys with that attitude, you should see how good the others are working now. Only thing I can say is get rid of them sooner than later, I held onto mine too long and it cost me more than what most make in a year.


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## Jungle (Aug 20, 2014)

Probably here, is small town, no immigrants. Also raining all the time i need to get it done. Likely the next guy would be the same or worse.  Paying $30 is painful on my wallet. It is at least $2k in labour to pay him.
Hit's of 80's he want's to listen all day is driving me nuts too. And complains and complains then to mention how great he is.


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## Chris (Aug 20, 2014)

Hate to say it but the guys who make a little more usually do so for a reason. I have found a few cheap guys that work hard but it is rare. To me it is worth the extra buck to have a guy I can trust to do a job right and that doesn't complain. Either that or find someone starting out in the trade that wants to learn, then you will find that good worker but he won't know much. It's a tough one, I have been trying for years to find the right guys, I finally found them a couple years ago but then things got slow and they went on their own ways.


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## Jungle (Aug 20, 2014)

The best labors Chris is the one that speak only a little English. Or none at all.:hide: Maybe you think they will be hard to deal with but if you get around the poor communication you will have a much easier life. I work with a lot of chinese, they were always complete reliable and did not need to be watched. You tell them what to do and they do it, no need to babysit.
The local guys you have to always praise them and build up their inflated egos, so it saps you energy.


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## Chris (Aug 20, 2014)

I have a few foreign employees and you are right they are my better workers. Sad days when there is just no work ethic in this country anymore.


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## inspectorD (Aug 20, 2014)

My motto is.. If I'm sweatin and your not... your not gettin paid for the day.. Makes quick work of those ego's and the slackers pay attention.:trophy:


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## Wuzzat? (Aug 21, 2014)

inspectorD said:


> My motto is.. If I'm sweatin and your not... your not gettin paid for the day.. Makes quick work of those ego's and the slackers pay attention.:trophy:


Was the same with my martial arts teacher.  He'd go around and feel our foreheads.  That's when I found that I could not will myself to sweat.


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## nealtw (Aug 21, 2014)

OK someone has to come to the defence of the contractor. A successful hire depends mostly on the guy hiring.
How much do you know about the job you want done?
Did you have a plan for the job before it got started or do you wait untill to job is half done before you tell him, that is not what you had in mind.
If you are aware of how it should be done, did you discuss that with him earlier. If in fact his understanding is wrong, don't hire him or educate him.

Oftyen we see mistakes in blueprints and take that to the guy paying the bills, 90% of the time the answer is the designer must be write, only after things are built the costomer sees the mistake and think we are greedy for charging for changing it.

In a real world contreactors make mistakes but so do customers.
And the best organized worker never looks like he is busy and hardly ever sweats.


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 21, 2014)

Lessons I've learned working in construction for 20 years. The biggest mistake a homeowner can make is not paying to much for a project, but choosing the wrong contractor to do the job. The biggest mistake trades people make is taking a job we know is going to be a problem. Homeowners don't understand, when I go to a property, evualate a installation and prepare an estimate, they are not just choosing who's going to do the install, I'm deciding if I want to work for these folks. If I don't get a good feel first thing, it usually doesn't get better down the road.


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## Jungle (Aug 21, 2014)

I have to be more manipulative and tell them i am a contractor and not a home owner. Then i would get better results.  Lie to them and tell them i have more jobs, i used to do this in business all the time.
But hey if i want to do that i might as well go back to sales and marketing...


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## inspectorD (Aug 21, 2014)

Jungle said:


> I have to be more manipulative and tell them i am a contractor and not a home owner. Then i would get better results.  Lie to them and tell them i have more jobs, i used to do this in business all the time.
> But hey if i want to do that i might as well go back to sales and marketing...



Yeah... let us know how that works out for ya...with a real contractor.. ;-)

Bottom line is this, Both the Contractor and the homeowner are being interviewed Just as Oldog mentioned... and the end result will reflect who has been the honest one.  
You get what you pay for, If you think I'm expensive.. wait till you hire an Amateur.


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## slownsteady (Aug 21, 2014)

Sometimes it just becomes a pissing contest between the contractor and the homeowner if they can't agree on how the job should be done. The homeowner should ask all the questions before hiring and if he (she) has doubts, he shouldn't hire that contractor. And if the homeowner is not really sure, then the contractor should be left to do it without interference. That's one of the key reasons to be on a forum like this - to know what to expect about a project.


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## bud16415 (Aug 22, 2014)

Quite a few years ago I was planning a large addition to the house and had a rough idea of what I wanted. Maybe even more than a rough idea. I talked to a couple builders and they just heard the first few words out of my mouth pretty much the size of the addition and the side of the house it was on. and then projected their own vision of what it was to be. When I tried to explain what I wanted I got more questions than answers. Things like why would you want that or we can&#8217;t do that. 

I backed up and thought why not design the project myself, write my own specs and then put it out for bids. I had access at that time to computer aided design, long before even this old house was talking about it. So I did the whole thing right down to stud plans, wire plans, plumbing, etc. and then had overall specs dealing with selection of everything in the place and also all the load calculations. I didn&#8217;t really think it was that big of a deal and thought now I will get what I want and it should really help whoever quotes it as to not have to figure everything out. 

I called a guy out and sat down with him and he started looking thru my stuff and tossed back and said forget it. We don&#8217;t work like this. I said what do you mean and he said I have worked with guys like you before and you will be looking over my shoulder telling me the windows are in the wrong place and the pipes are coming down the wrong side of the basement. I assured him I wasn&#8217;t going to be on him on how he framed out a wall but yes I wanted the windows where I wanted them and some areas of the basement I wanted clear head room so there was reasons for some of the plumbing the way it was. He took his stuff and left. 
The second guy was about the same and he said he would do it but couldn&#8217;t quote something all laid out like that and he would build it for cost and materials only paid every other week and if he got it closed in he could walk at any time. 
The third guy I almost didn&#8217;t call because I knew he just finished a 12 million dollar home on the lake. But when I asked him if he did additions he said sure do and it would be nice to work on something normal where he didn&#8217;t have to fly to Italy to look at marble for the front steps etc. He came over and I gave him the plans and he sat there looking at them and asked who did them? Was all interested in the technology etc. he asked to take them home and come back the next day. So he comes back and tells me I just built a 12M house and they didn&#8217;t have this much detail in the plans and the basic construction wasn&#8217;t this good. I laughed and said what made it 12M then and he said well having everything covered with gold had a lot to do with it. He had a quote for me said he only found a few things he would like to change and had good reasons why. He said I didn&#8217;t really need him I should be my own general contractor and I told him I thought about it but he had the connections I didn&#8217;t. Then he wanted to know if I wanted a job designing additions. I declined his offer and told him if I had the time I would build it myself but didn&#8217;t see how one guy wouldn&#8217;t kill himself trying to get it built without weather taking over. He said well you pick how far you want us to go and he would quote it as that. So that&#8217;s what I did. They did the foundation basement put up the shell and finished outside to the weather and I did all the rest and saved at least half. Keep in mind this was in the days before unified building codes and all the red tape there is today. 

Bottom line is I have found that people in all fields and trades come in all types. It&#8217;s up to the homeowner to pick the one that matches them or at least figure out how to work with them. I deal with people every day and one of the first things I learned as a young guy was I&#8217;m not always right and I should be open to ideas and concerns brought up by people that I would assume should be following me not leading. You don&#8217;t always have to agree but you should always hear them out. Building a working relationship makes it all better.


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## Reipoh2ohg (Aug 22, 2014)

I think that making sure that you have a decent contract is the best way to go. I have seen too many slackers who feel as though that at the end of the job, they are going to get paid regardless. I have made it clear before that I am firm but fair, and I would not accept mediocre work. That has worked decently well so far.


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 22, 2014)

Reipoh2ohg said:


> I think that making sure that you have a decent contract is the best way to go.QUOTE]
> 
> Contracts really don't mean as much as you think. They are like locks on a door, the keep the honest ones honest. Try suing someone based on a contract and see what it costs to win a suit. And winning a suit doesn't mean you will ever see a stinking penny of a judgment, but the attorneys get theirs...


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## Jungle (Aug 24, 2014)

How do you deal with screw ups?  Take it out of the wages?

This guy screwed up at least twice. First time no blue seal around the skylight, this is after bragging to me how he has installed so many commercial skylights. So this is the problem he says he knows and convincing me then screws up. Then he argues with me wasting more time which i have to pay for and then is in a bad mood because he has to do it over.
The second time he sprayed the chimney with paint then left the can on the bench and it leaked a big trail down the side. He didn't even notice, i had to notice. Then he thinks he wash it off with water. In the end he replaced the singles and he said he would split the time with me. He used a bunch of end pieces so i would notice the missing bundle but now it looks a bit funny the pattern. of course.
It was 6 hours for the skylights and 1 hours for the paint. Again a problem with his ego. After that he keeps saying 'what ever you want' etc.  
So i had to babysit him all the time which saps you energy, another time i caught him shingle over a small piece without underlay.  
These guys don't care about their health either, i swear he must eaten a couple tubes of tar over the years with his lunch, smokes and coffee breaks..he gets covered in it and the spreads it all over the damn place!


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## Jungle (Aug 24, 2014)

Here's the back, the mistakes are more noticeable. This is after telling me what an expert window and skylight installer he is. 
- Didn't level the space between the skylights
- left skylight is crooked. This is after tell him it was crooked be he insisted it wasn't. It looks straight on the inside i guess i should be happy.
- cut the piece in the middle, it's underpayment not shingle. hope that doesn't show with gutters. Out of the blue he is just there and decided to trim 1/2" I donno know what he was thinking?
Should have used mastic instead of the tar, i can smell tar coming through the skylight. When does that stuff gas off, should i try to seal it with silicon?


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