# Running wires in an old house.



## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

Hello,

I have been looking for a while and cannot find anything to help me thus far on quite a few different sites so I made an account and I am hoping I can learn some stuff on here.

I am looking to run some wire in my house but it is not going as planned. I tried working on it for a good hour tonight but got frustrated and put it all back together after realizing it will not work the way it is set up thus far. I am looking to run cables from my living room through the walls into the bedrooms of my house. I took off the coax cable cover(for the old tv cable) and tried to makeshift snake the new wire along the old wire through the wall to where I could at least reach it downstairs in the half finished basement. It was not working so I investigated further.

I then went ahead and took out the electrical box from the wall and fit my hand through the hole and traced the wire to the nearest vertical stud in the wall only to find out that the hole in the stud is first off, quite small, and second off, angled through the stud at approx 45 degrees and not a straight hole through the stud. There is no way that another wire could fit through the stud hole, especially not the 2 wires that I was looking to put through it. I could also not feel another hole made in the stud at all. 

Now, onto the questions. How would I go about doing what I need to, to run the wires through the wall and into the floor along the path or near the path that the previous cable runs? I am guessing that I would have to break away 5 feet x 5 feet of drywall roughly, drill new stud holes and hope that they run through the floor there, then run them through the floor back to the bedrooms and up through the floor there into the wall through the outlets I am going to use in the bedrooms?

I am just starting to get into home improvement and DIY stuff. I have never done drywall but I am happy to learn whatever I can. I would assume, once I break away the drywall, I will not be able to reuse it and would have to get a new piece, size it, use drywall tape and mud to put it back into place, screw it into the studs deep enough that no screwheads are sticking out, sand it all out, then paint it all? 

If there is an easier way to go about doing it I am really looking for that route but it doesn't seem likely. I was searching downstairs and saw that mainly, all of the stud holes are made to fit the wires that were previously run in the house. It is almost like no one had a hole saw and just used a big enough drill bit to run the wire/wires they needed and no bigger. 

Thanks for the help.


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## beachguy005 (Jan 3, 2015)

Are you running more coax or power cables?  If you have access to the basement, you may be able to just drill through the bottom plate and floor in the wall cavity you stuck your hand in.  Do the same thing in the bedroom.  Cut an opening for an old work box, drill down and feed the wires up.  How easy it is depends on access from the basement.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> Are you running more coax or power cables?  If you have access to the basement, you may be able to just drill through the bottom plate and floor in the wall cavity you stuck your hand in.  Do the same thing in the bedroom.  Cut an opening for an old work box, drill down and feed the wires up.  How easy it is depends on access from the basement.



I am actually trying to run ethernet cables along the same path as the existing coax cable. I have access to the basement but where the existing coax comes through the floor, is the part of the 1/2 finished basement that is done. It already has a ceiling so there is no access to the eves to drill up. I can find the coax where the ceiling ends and I can see into the eve that it travels down, but then it goes through 2 eves then up into the floor. There is no access to where it is in the eves there.


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## hornetd (Jan 3, 2015)

HorribleFixer said:


> I am actually trying to run ethernet cables along the same path as the existing coax cable. I have access to the basement but where the existing coax comes through the floor, is the part of the 1/2 finished basement that is done. It already has a ceiling so there is no access to the eves to drill up. I can find the coax where the ceiling ends and I can see into the eve that it travels down, but then it goes through 2 eves then up into the floor. There is no access to where it is in the eves there.



Since you are trying to  run Ethernet cable you do have more options then you would with cable for power & light.  One technique that may work for you is to remove the base board between the origin and the overhead of the unfinished portion of the basement.  Usually there will be a gap between the bottom of the drywall and the floor but if not you just remove enough drywall to make a channel along the bottom of the drywall, run your cable, and replace the baseboard.  

--  
Tom Horne


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

Tom makes a good point. You don't 'have to' run the ethernet cables within the wall if you can conceal them safely along the base of the wall.
Invest in a fish tape or "fish-sticks" to help run the wires if you decide to go behind the wall. You will find that you don't need to make as big a hole in the drywall to work.
Nobody really wants to make holes too big in wood framing as this will compromise the strength of the studs. So you will usually find just one wire fits in a given hole...maybe two. 
I would take a look at Youtube for some videos on how to run wire in a wall. There is a surprising amount of tutorials there.

Oh, and welcome to the site. Lots of good people here.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

hornetd said:


> Since you are trying to  run Ethernet cable you do have more options then you would with cable for power & light.  One technique that may work for you is to remove the base board between the origin and the overhead of the unfinished portion of the basement.  Usually there will be a gap between the bottom of the drywall and the floor but if not you just remove enough drywall to make a channel along the bottom of the drywall, run your cable, and replace the baseboard.
> 
> --
> Tom Horne



This means that I would have to run it behind the baseboard and follow the wall all the way to the back bedrooms? The problem is that I am running it to 2 bedrooms but skipping one. I guess that I could just route the cable behind the baseboard into the nearest closet and drill a hole through the floor in the back of the closet and hope that I can find the hole in the basement ceiling in the eves.


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## beachguy005 (Jan 3, 2015)

One option is to go wireless, but I'll assume that you considered that.  The other option is, as I noted earlier, Drill down.  You don't need to drill up.  It really depends on the wall layout.  Have you also considered wiring down from the attic?


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> One option is to go wireless, but I'll assume that you considered that.  The other option is, as I noted earlier, Drill down.  You don't need to drill up.  It really depends on the wall layout.  Have you also considered wiring down from the attic?



I have already considered the wireless option but my speeds are greatly reduced over the distance so I figured hooking up ethernet cables would be better for speeds even if it was a pain to do it would pay off in the long run in my personal opinion. The problem with the attic idea is it is a finished attic so there is no access unless I start removing the attic floorboards.


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

If you consider cutting into your walls or removing attic floorboards (we don't know for sure how 'finished' your attic is...) might be worth the thought. Also, be sure that you have picked the best place for your router before you begin wiring. You may find the task is simplified by a better central location. And don't forget the possibility of wireless repeaters to enhance the wireless signal.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> If you consider cutting into your walls or removing attic floorboards (we don't know for sure how 'finished' your attic is...) might be worth the thought. Also, be sure that you have picked the best place for your router before you begin wiring. You may find the task is simplified by a better central location. And don't forget the possibility of wireless repeaters to enhance the wireless signal.



I did give moving the central hub to a more middle area of the house but I would still be wanting to run ethernet throughout the house. I will have to figure out how the ceiling tile in the basement was put up so that I can hopefully remove it. Upon first inspection of it it looks like it is almost all one piece but I think that whoever put it up, painted it after putting it up so now it just looks like there are no slots or anything. Maybe I can snap a picture and get someones opinion on it. if I could somehow take some of it down without taking it all down just to reach the eves, it would be much more simple for me to achieve what I am going for.


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## beachguy005 (Jan 3, 2015)

Well....floors in the attic, ceiling in the basement, walls in the living room.....as they say, if you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.  You want to go from point A to point B through existing walls...welcome to the world of home renovation.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> Well....floors in the attic, ceiling in the basement, walls in the living room.....as they say, if you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.  You want to go from point A to point B through existing walls...welcome to the world of home renovation.



Haha, yes, I know I will have to go about it someway. I will probably peel back the baseboards first and see if I can route it to the closest closet and see if I can drill through the closet into the eves where I can work with it. 

If that doesn't work, I will probably try to disassemble some of the ceiling, possible with this forums help or screwing with it, then drill up where the coax is in hopes that I can work with it that way.


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## frodo (Jan 3, 2015)

pictures would help a lot.  lotta people with a few years worth of tricks

have you thought about running it outside?


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

http://www.indepthinfo.com/frame-wall/anatomy.shtml

Just a primer for what you can visualize behind the walls and a little common language so we all can speak about the same parts


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

Wow, I didn't realize making your own rough sketches could take so long. It is a very rough layout that I made on paint for the last hour or so. Hopefully it makes sense. The first picture should be the layout of the upstairs and the 2nd is downstairs. I am looking to run the ethernet from coax point 1 over to 2 and 3 but you can see where downstairs the ceiling is inaccessible. If more explaining is needed, please let me know.

Upstairs layout



Downstairs layout



Thanks for all of the help thus far guys.


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

I would wire along the baseboard in the LR till you get past the finished ceiling in the basement. Then drop down to basement, turn along the wall and come up in the two bedrooms. I'm not sure how the HVAC gets in the way, but in that space, you can put the wire anyplace - it doesn't have to be as neat.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 3, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> I would wire along the baseboard in the LR till you get past the finished ceiling in the basement. Then drop down to basement, turn along the wall and come up in the two bedrooms. I'm not sure how the HVAC gets in the way, but in that space, you can put the wire anyplace - it doesn't have to be as neat.



Yeah, I was going to wire along the baseboard of the living room into the closest closet then drill down into the eves where I can see in the basement and grab it with a hook or something and pull it to me. Then run it towards the 2 rooms and up through the same cavities as the other coax outlets.

The HVAC gets in the way because for some reason they blocked off the eves with duct ends so there is no way to see into the eves from where I said it was blocked. I do not know why they blocked them off there. The ductwork for it may go toward the coax point 1. Like I said, I have no idea why they are blocked off at all but there is no way to see down those eve's. I just see the coax go right when looking down the first eve, then I lose sight of it because I cannot see due to the duct.


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## beachguy005 (Jan 4, 2015)

One of the other things to consider is that you're trying to extend your wires from that existing location in the living room.  Have you considered splitting off from the cable from a different location that's more accessible?
Splitting it where it comes into the house and running another leg or tapping it inside somewhere else.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 4, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> One of the other things to consider is that you're trying to extend your wires from that existing location in the living room.  Have you considered splitting off from the cable from a different location that's more accessible?
> Splitting it where it comes into the house and running another leg or tapping it inside somewhere else.



I am not trying to extend pre-existing wires. I am adding in a new ethernet cable that runs from the Coax Point 1 where the box is to the Coax Points 2 and 3 so that I can will have a wired ethernet in the back rooms rather than having the weak wifi signal in the back rooms.


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## beachguy005 (Jan 4, 2015)

If you have existing coax in the rooms you can get your internet and tv over just the coax without a need for ethernet cable.
Using something like this.

http://www.mocaisinyourhouse.com/index.htm


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## nealtw (Jan 4, 2015)

The bay between the joists is blocked for the return air to the furnace. If you can see open bays under bedroom one you might be able to remove molding to get into the closet area and down into an open bay and out into the unfinished basement and into the other 2 rooms.


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## frodo (Jan 5, 2015)

does the walls from upstairs line up with the down stairs ?   seems the hall way wall would be load bearing and should. looking at stairs.  they do.  

if it does.    drill up from the basement  in the hall wall,  to the hall wall upstairs

using your tape maesure.  measure from stair opening to hole.

if you wish,,drop a plumb bob down from edge of stair well opening to floor..to make it easier to locate


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

frodo said:


> does the walls from upstairs line up with the down stairs ?   seems the hall way wall would be load bearing and should. looking at stairs.  they do.
> 
> if it does.    drill up from the basement  in the hall wall,  to the hall wall upstairs
> 
> ...



Hvac will likely fill that space.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Hvac will likely fill that space.



Yeah, the HVAC is in the way of the way the guy described. That is why I was going to run it to the closet and drop it down. I might try ripping off the hvac duct and putting it back up after getting things run the way I need. Or, I will be taking pictures of the ceiling downstairs and seeing if you all know how to disassemble it. I do not know if it is tongue and groove or how they were put up. If I could just take a small section, 9 blocks or so out of it, it would be easy to route the ethernet the way I would like to. I know that the ceiling definitely does not just lift up like a drop ceiling. I will probably also grab picture of the downstairs hvac situation where I am having troubles working around so people can get a visual of what I am talking about.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

Are these the cieling tile?
http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...tem-planning-installation-guide-en-WL1004.pdf


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Are these the cieling tile?
> http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...tem-planning-installation-guide-en-WL1004.pdf



They look almost like this but more shallow grooves. 




Picture used from Google Images, not my actual ceiling. It is just an example.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

Usually some kind of crown molding to take down , then you have to figure out where they finished and work backwards from there if you want to save them. But they give no fire protection at all there would be little loss in loosing them and put up a proper cieling.


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## frodo (Jan 5, 2015)

you mean to tell me you can not find  a 1/2"  space in that ceiling  because of duct work,  for a ethernet wire?????????????????

drill a 1 1/4"  hole in the duct,  shove a 1" steel pipe thru it.  seal both ends
 use pipe as a sleeve   .  been there done that!!!!


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Usually some kind of crown molding to take down , then you have to figure out where they finished and work backwards from there if you want to save them. But they give no fire protection at all there would be little loss in loosing them and put up a proper cieling.



Yeah, the edges where the wall meets that isn't finished is held by some nails and I think that is all that is holding up the ceiling on that side for the time being. How much am I looking at for installing a proper ceiling. The basement is the last part of my project for the time being. I may run new electrical throughout the whole house but have not dedicated to it yet. The basement does have a problem of not being level and the previous owner let it get water in it and puddle up so the drywall has been cut 3 feet off of the ground all the way around and the wood throughout the basement has water damage to it that I am pretty sure has been more than just that once. I am sure some are rotten and need to be replaced. I need to level out the floor then seal it all from the inside for now so hopefully there is no more leaking, then I would like to tile most, if not all of it. I have no clue on how exactly I will go about all of this but I am working on one thing at a time.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

frodo said:


> you mean to tell me you can not find  a 1/2"  space in that ceiling  because of duct work,  for a ethernet wire?????????????????



No, what was said is that 3 eves are completely blocked, from where I placed it on the diagram upwards. I cannot see down those eves at all and it happens to be where the coax is heading up.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

Eaves are part of the roof. Bay is the area between floor or ceiling joists.
To seal and waterproff the basement, plan on digging around the outside, inside sealing is mostly a waist of time and need to be done again.
Do you have a return air vent near that spot in the living room.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Eaves are part of the roof. Bay is the area between floor or ceiling joists.
> To seal and waterproff the basement, plan on digging around the outside, inside sealing is mostly a waist of time and need to be done again.
> Do you have a return air vent near that spot in the living room.



I literally just looked at a post, I think by you, when refreshing the page using the term bay area, and I was going to edit my post.  Yes, the return vent is right across the 1st closet closest to the living room. The return vent is right around the kitchen corner in the hallway.

Yes, I have heard that waterproofing is best done from the outside but I was hoping to inside seal it just for good measures then reseal the outside, most likely using a company instead of doing it myself. I do have to level off the floor in the basement before all of this though.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

So you could run back toward the hall drill thru the bottom plate run around the back of the first closet , drill thru the bottom plate into second closet and around until you are over an open bay. Hide all behind molding.

Fix the drainage and waterproofing first as sometimes working outside is impossible and doing it from the inside is required and trenching thru the floor is part of that job.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> So you could run back toward the hall drill thru the bottom plate run around the back of the first closet , drill thru the bottom plate into second closet and around until you are over an open bay. Hide all behind molding.
> 
> Fix the drainage and waterproofing first as sometimes working outside is impossible and doing it from the inside is required and trenching thru the floor is part of that job.



Yeah, it looks like I will be routing it behind the baseboard into the first closet at least. Hopefully drilling through the floor there, I will be able to see something and if not I will have to take another option on doing it.

Estimated cost of basement repair based on what you are saying with someone else doing it? I know that everyones prices are different especially with costs, unforseen things, and size of house of course.


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

Guessing a price is pointless. The trick is to develope your own plan on what needs to be done and then get quotes, that cuts out the BS from slick contractors. 

Now we just need to here how you made out running the wire.


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## HorribleFixer (Jan 5, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Guessing a price is pointless. The trick is to develope your own plan on what needs to be done and then get quotes, that cuts out the BS from slick contractors.
> 
> Now we just need to here how you made out running the wire.



I will be sure to add pictures of what I am doing with the wires and how I will be doing it shortly. I have quite a few projects that I will be asking questions about I am sure.


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