# 16 inches on centre



## swimmer_spe (Apr 21, 2017)

I hate that. I wish it were based on spacing between, not where the centre lines up.

So, If I want to draw one mark and line up the edge to it, what would the measurements be?


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## slownsteady (Apr 21, 2017)

If you don't like fractions, you can use the other scale found on most tape measures...............metric.


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## swimmer_spe (Apr 21, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> If you don't like fractions, you can use the other scale found on most tape measures...............metric.



It isn't about the measurement, it is where the measurement is taken.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 21, 2017)

14.5" between them.


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## slownsteady (Apr 21, 2017)

...or 16 inches to the far side of the next one.


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## swimmer_spe (Apr 21, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> 14.5" between them.





slownsteady said:


> ...or 16 inches to the far side of the next one.



Thank you, this helps me greatly.


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## nealtw (Apr 23, 2017)

If you are laying out a wall for studs. Mark one at 15 1/4" from the end and tack a nail there for the tape measure and mark the rest at 16s.


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## swimmer_spe (Apr 24, 2017)

nealtw said:


> If you are laying out a wall for studs. Mark one at 15 1/4" from the end and tack a nail there for the tape measure and mark the rest at 16s.



Thank you. That makes sense.


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## bud16415 (Apr 24, 2017)

Keep in mind the dimension given between studs is for modern 2x4 studs that measure 1.5 x 3.5. Over the years that has changed as studs started out as actually 2x4. That is supposed to be the rough cut dimension and then the finishing takes it down to finished size. They do not take a quarter inch off all 4 sides of a stud. I have found studs in all sizes and shapes in different aged homes. In many 100 plus year old homes studs were spaced by the length of the carpenter&#8217;s hammer.  

Around here if you get the Amish to build you a building and they have a mill the stud sizes will still be 2x4.   Give or take an eight.


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## swimmer_spe (Apr 24, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Keep in mind the dimension given between studs is for modern 2x4 studs that measure 1.5 x 3.5. Over the years that has changed as studs started out as actually 2x4. That is supposed to be the rough cut dimension and then the finishing takes it down to finished size. They do not take a quarter inch off all 4 sides of a stud. I have found studs in all sizes and shapes in different aged homes. In many 100 plus year old homes studs were spaced by the length of the carpenters hammer.
> 
> Around here if you get the Amish to build you a building and they have a mill the stud sizes will still be 2x4.   Give or take an eight.



This is new construction.


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## Sparky617 (Apr 24, 2017)

In the days before 4x8 sheet goods, stud spacing wasn't as critical as it is today.   Hanging your drywall horizontally allows you to adjust better if the stud spacing isn't perfect.  It is much easier to cut drywall on the short axis than the long, and you're not killing the tapered edge if you shorten it by an inch on the 4' dimension.


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## bud16415 (Apr 24, 2017)

Sparky617 said:


> In the days before 4x8 sheet goods, stud spacing wasn't as critical as it is today.   Hanging your drywall horizontally allows you to adjust better if the stud spacing isn't perfect.  It is much easier to cut drywall on the short axis than the long, and you're not killing the tapered edge if you shorten it by an inch on the 4' dimension.



Many now are trying to miss the stud or joist and using a strip called a butt splicer that draws the end joint in and allows for tape and mud and a flat finish without a gradual hump.


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## nealtw (Apr 24, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Many now are trying to miss the stud or joist and using a strip called a butt splicer that draws the end joint in and allows for tape and mud and a flat finish without a gradual hump.



This lay out is for plywood on the outside the drywall never fits.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 24, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Many now are trying to miss the stud or joist and using a strip called a butt splicer that draws the end joint in and allows for tape and mud and a flat finish without a gradual hump.



Or, actually taking the time to learn the trade.


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## bud16415 (Apr 24, 2017)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHcNPyAarQc[/ame]


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## Snoonyb (Apr 24, 2017)

Is there nothing beneath a "jack-leg-laborers" dignity.


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## oldognewtrick (Apr 24, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHcNPyAarQc



The time it took him to do that, he could of cut the sheet and hit the ceiling joists....


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## nealtw (Apr 24, 2017)

oldognewtrick said:


> The time it took him to do that, he could of cut the sheet and hit the ceiling joists....



You missed the point. :nono:


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## Snoonyb (Apr 24, 2017)

oldognewtrick said:


> The time it took him to do that, he could of cut the sheet and hit the ceiling joists....



His tape measure only unreels, when he's facing the camera.


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## Mastercarpenty (Apr 30, 2017)

nealtw said:


> This lay out is for plywood on the outside the drywall never fits.



Yep, you can one or the other but not both. I lay out for the structure- outside sheathing- them trim the drywall as needed. 

There are several shortcuts to doing stud layout, I hook the tape, mark each stud 3/4" back from the 16" marks in the tape,. then set the studs ahead. When I run out of tape length I drive a nail on the mark and mark on the marks from there on. Fast and foolproof.

Phil


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## slownsteady (May 5, 2017)

Notice that they didn't show driving the first few screws on the second sheet? I could see that being a PITA, when you can't reach in to hold the "rocksplicer" down. Also, if I have to to cut the sheet to fit midway,, what's the difference in effort? 105 inches or 115 inches is still a cut.


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## nealtw (May 5, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> Notice that they didn't show driving the first few screws on the second sheet? I could see that being a PITA, when you can't reach in to hold the "rocksplicer" down. Also, if I have to to cut the sheet to fit midway,, what's the difference in effort? 105 inches or 115 inches is still a cut.



He is selling the board called a rock splicer. I have tried it the difference is your standard butt joint or a joint more like an edge joint.


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## Snoonyb (May 5, 2017)

You still end up with a flex-joint in a joist bay.

Conventional wisdom is that unsupported board in excess of 3" from a bering point must be supported by a framing member.


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## nealtw (May 6, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> You still end up with a flex-joint in a joist bay.
> 
> Conventional wisdom is that unsupported board in excess of 3" from a bering point must be supported by a framing member.



"Conventional wisdom" is for people who don't believe in some new idea.:trophy:


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## slownsteady (May 6, 2017)

nealtw said:


> He is selling the board called a rock splicer. I have tried it the difference is your standard butt joint or a joint more like an edge joint.


So are you saying it is a good product? Is it hard to get the screw to grab the rocksplicer. I can imagine it gets pushed away by the screw.


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## nealtw (May 6, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> So are you saying it is a good product? Is it hard to get the screw to grab the rocksplicer. I can imagine it gets pushed away by the screw.



I used a 8" wide piece of 1/2" plywood with a little strip of 1/4" on each side
On the first piece of drywall I just screwed it every 8" and on the second sheet I was a little nervous so I started all the screws and tightened them a little at a time so they would not pull thru.
Afterwards the guy I was helping wished we had done all the but joints like that. You loose the effect at the top or bottom plate but all in all I would do it again.

The guys that have worked in an industry for thirty years seldom come up with new ideas


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## nealtw (May 6, 2017)

Ceiling are 5/8 drywall so I don't know if you would get the same bend on the end.


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## Mastercarpenty (May 6, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The guys that have worked in an industry for thirty years seldom come up with new ideas



That may hold true for most guys, but there are always some like me who aren't afraid to try doing things differently just to see if something better can't happen  I've hung more rock than I've finished, mostly in commercial and industrial firecode work where technique is mandated by the product manufacturer in order for them to be able to certify performance. In that they do limit unsupported edges but in residential work where less impact durability is expected you can somewhat exceed those limits without problems. But there are still practical limits and it's usually easy and cheap to have the needed support so there's little reason to go there. 

I've never tried the butt-splice being discussed here nor do I see much need to as you simply cannot have a perfectly flat sheetrock wall no matter what. The corners will always need to be built out preventing perfect flatness. This is where a really good finisher comes into play as they will keep the joints as flat as possible and feather them out as far as it takes to obtain the best results. Most finishers will not put that much time and effort into it. I've seen a good finisher make a 1" bend in a long wall visually disappear unless you were standing with your face against the wall looking for the break, and even then though you could see it, you couldn't point out exactly where the high point was. That one was feathered out 3 feet to each side and I was amazed at the results.

Though I'm not a good sheetrock finisher (just OK for smoothness and somewhat slow), I've discovered more BS and "old wives tales" in that trade than any other. Even where I show and prove how well my techniques work, the old-timers will not even try them and stick with their old ways. Were I good with smoothness and faster I'd put those guys out to pasture where they belong  But alas, my talents lie elsewhere, so with the small work I take on I'll just keep doing my thing my way and  get done before they'd even have a good start, and for the more extensive work I'll let them have at it their own way since there will be time enough for that.

Phil


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## nealtw (May 6, 2017)

Mastercarpenty said:


> Phil



My experience is about the same as yours but the guy I was helping had never done any drywall work, I gave a little instruction and left it for him. 
Butt joints a very hard for new people and that one joint is the only one that can not be found in his basement.

Pros are amassing at this stuff but most outfits around here have specialists.
Two hangers
two tapers or one with a bazooka
one bead man
two fillers
two finishers
two sanders 

And we try to get the same quality doing it all.


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## Snoonyb (May 6, 2017)

nealtw said:


> "Conventional wisdom" is for people who don't believe in some new idea.:trophy:



Conventional wisdom is the result of the knowledge gained from learning a trade, front to back, and practicing that trade.

Not subordinating to the whim and fancy of some jack-leg-laborer who is so devoid of self esteem he needs to reassure himself of his relevance, in a u-tube video.


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## Mastercarpenty (May 7, 2017)

Conventional wisdom in a trade often relates to how the work is currently done, and if you change an aspect the previous wisdom may no longer be as applicable. Every trade and every structure is a system of many single things working together, so changing one thing can lead to the need to change other things. 

Most trades are rather single-minded about their own work, not really understanding what all the rest is about. Those of us who have experience with all aspects better understand how it all works together and what each trade needs for them to do their own jobs best. And a lot of things we do aren't necessary when they once were, such as the 16" OC stud spacing. Engineering tests have shown that an exterior load bearing one-story wall is strong enough in most conventional homes with studs run 24" OC, and in some places this is allowed by code and done. I expect it will someday become the norm, but not until the rest of the 'trades' get on board with it as everything like insulation, piping, fixtures, and so forth are designed for 16" OC usage. Thus 'conventional wisdom' doesn't always give the optimum results and it should never be blindly accepted as being the best way.

Always question the "why" of how things are done and you'll begin seeing the possibilities of better ways to do those things, but always keep the big picture in mind when the new ideas come along since nothing truly works all alone- it's all part of a system and that is where most of the new ideas fail.

Phil


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## Sparky617 (May 8, 2017)

My first house, a townhouse, was built with 2x6 exterior walls 24" OC, it also had 1" of extruded styrofoam on the outside and 5.5" of fiberglass insulation in the walls.  With only the front, back and roof exposed to the outside, it was pretty cheap to heat and cool.

Builders can be slow to adopt new tech because they have been bitten in the butt by some latest and greatest:  polybutylene plumbing, Masonite siding, aluminum branch wiring.   Some new things are pretty much accepted now and widely used: OSB instead of plywood, roof trusses instead of rafter and joist, floor trusses and I-wood beam floor joists, prehung doors, manufactured stairs, etc.   As trades training has died in this country and labor costs have gone up, products that help a builder build faster with lower skilled employees and subs are readily accepted.


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## MrMiz (May 18, 2017)

Somebody probably already said this but make sure your paying attention to what your laying over the top of the studs. The idea is that 16's on center will allow what ever you lay on top of it to hit the center of the stud... So 4x8 sheets of drywall, osb, plyboard should hit right in the center if you measure that right. So rather than focus on getting 100% accurate 16s focus more on where your drywall is going to go on. I'm not saying to neglect level and plumb, but if your material that goes over the top isn't properly secured it's never going to last/look good. Make sure that your going to have a place to screw it down and you don't have any funny floating seams. Be thinking about how to minimize the cuts and seams. If you can plan that out better you should have better luck when you're Mudding too. Oh and make sure you have all the crown's on one side.


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## nealtw (May 18, 2017)

MrMiz said:


> Somebody probably already said this but make sure your paying attention to what your laying over the top of the studs. The idea is that 16's on center will allow what ever you lay on top of it to hit the center of the stud... So 4x8 sheets of drywall, osb, plyboard should hit right in the center if you measure that right. So rather than focus on getting 100% accurate 16s focus more on where your drywall is going to go on. Make sure that your going to have a place to screw it down and you don't have any funny floating seams. Be thinking about how to minimize he cuts and seams. If you can plan that out better you should have better luck when your Mudding too. Oh and make sure you have all the crown's on one side.



That was covered, I told him the first stud is 15 1/4 from the end of the wall.


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## MrMiz (May 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> That was covered, I told him the first stud is 15 1/4 from the end of the wall.



I thought maybe it was, but I just wanted to point out that if your starting in a corner and there are no studs in a corner your going to be adding a Studs or cutting every sheet of drywall if you only pay attention to 16s.


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## nealtw (May 18, 2017)

MrMiz said:


> I thought maybe it was, but I just wanted to point out that if your starting in a corner and there are no studs in a corner your going to be adding a Studs or cutting every sheet of drywall if you only pay attention to 16s.



There were a few things left out in this discussion and you have noticed one.
There is always one stud missing in the corner for drywall backing and the one wall should be built with two studs in an L shape so when the other wall stands up there is drywall backing.

The other was, all the bottom plates should be cut and drilled and fit in place and duplicated for the top plate and if you are building the wall laying down make sure you mark this side up and remove the bottom plate and build the wall, then it is guaranteed to fit.


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## swimmer_spe (May 18, 2017)

MrMiz said:


> I thought maybe it was, but I just wanted to point out that if your starting in a corner and there are no studs in a corner your going to be adding a Studs or cutting every sheet of drywall if you only pay attention to 16s.



No drywall will be going up as long as I am here.


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## nealtw (May 19, 2017)

swimmer_spe said:


> No drywall will be going up as long as I am here.



It doesn't matter, easy enough to add later anyway.


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