# Extension of drain pipe and sewer pipe connector replacement?



## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

Throw another shrimp on the bar-b...I just got another project. Nevermind, bbq is too expensive right now.

One day in the crawlspace while taking photos of what to do with the infamous heating/air system and water heater issues that I've been trying to solve, I hear the sound of water falling into a puddle. Far away, back under the corner near the kitchen. Nice and tight area about 1.5 ft.

I go down there with a camera and a couple of lights, and I take video and pics when I find this:







No bueno. Nastiness. Old kitchen sink drain pipe. The kitchen sink faces the front of the house. Under the sink is the typical 1" or 1 1/4" pvc drain pipe clamped onto a metal pipe that goes horizontal into the back wall behind the cabinet, then takes a vertical dive into the crawl space because the bricks of the house are on the other side of that wall. It runs all the way from the front of the house to the perpendicular back end of the house. Nearly as far away as it could have gone. Awesome. That pipe (cast iron?) is pretty enormous considering that the actual sink drain is not anywhere near that big. Towards the back end of the house, it joins a much larger sewer pipe that it shares only with the toilet and apparently one other pipe.  This house apparently has more than one sewer pipe. The washing machine drain has its own special sewer pipe that I remember running PVC pipe to (changed the old metal pipe to pvc) probably 15 years ago, which comes  out of the house and goes into a 90 to go underground. Not sure if the hole rusted through or if someone snaked the pipe some years long ago and punched a hole in it. That makes me want to change it for fear of a clog in it further down the pipe, as well.  It looks like virtually all of the water is coming out of the hole.


Oh yeah, so there's a little long pond of sorts that the water has carved. Probably 6 inches or less deep (I hope) and varying in depth to what looks like a few inches.






So right after I made it back outside and just about screamed some incredibly loud, bad words that won't do the situation any good, I determined that I need to fix this. Fairly soon.

I conclude many things from this: I hate spiders and there are way too many right where that pipe is and all over the place down there. That water is bad to have down there in general. The pipe needs to be changed. That duct needs to be replaced and either got wet from the water running down the pipe (which  has a slope, of course) and/or a field mouse or mice at some point tore the duct down. Probably both. Yet the air blows out in the kitchen vent as if the duct is fully connected, so perhaps only the insulation. Not that that makes it any better, of course. Why are there field mice in the crawlspace? Because some blanky decided to put up a homemade plywood door years ago with big cracks on all sides of it and they just waltz right in there. I'm working on changing out that door for a solid, sealed door and changing the crawlspace vents. I'm going to set off Raid Fumigators in the crawlspace.

I trace the drain pipe all the way across and it joins this pipe, which over the past month or so, has wonderfully started its own leak. It looks like it may be one of the joints that happens to be right next to the floor joist. Of all of the joints, it had to be that one. We are not amused. 






I presume that this pipe is leaking probably because it has been so moist over decades in that big hole beneath it that I've been seeking a solution for lately. I've shown the photo to various people who had a bit of plumbing knowledge. A lot of people have told me that a cast iron pipe that size "wouldn't rust all the way through and probably came apart at the joints." 

So I said, "Okay, that looks like a fairly simple pipe. Just a larger pipe for the sewer."


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## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

Had to break this up because it only allows 4 pics at a time.

So right around the area where the pipe disappears behind the duct (which some blanky from the HVAC company WRAPPED the air ducts around), apparently turns into a wye or tee (can't remember which it is).







I'm quite sure (will double check) that the pipe going straight up is  the toilet pipe. The second pipe continues over and branches off into two: 






One of them goes over and does this. I think this is the old bathroom sink drain that is no longer used (they went pvc through the floor probably decades ago).






That second pipe I'll have to figure out where it goes. I don't think it is the tub drain (but that would be the only other thing in the bathroom, obviously). I remember seeing a small drain that I recognized as being the tub (which is over against the back wall a few feet behind and above the sewer pipe). It may be that it somehow turns into this larger pipe. I'll have to check and see.

I definitely need some advice for this. Would I be able to convert all of this to PVC myself? I'm a pretty small guy and can physically crawl over there with little effort where the drain pipe is leaking under the kitchen. I have a one-handed reciprocating saw of moderate size, which I feel pretty confident would  cut through the old cast iron pipe. I have a 9" extreme carbide tipped metal cutting blade for cast iron, alloys and stainless steel. I would cut through the old drain pipe under the  kitchen and basically use rubber clamps (?) to attach pvc to a "good" part of the pipe further back. Then run PVC all  the way over to where it joins the sewer pipe (using metal pipe hanging  material to support it along the way). Apparently I would have to temporarily leave a portion of the smaller pipe where it joins the larger sewer pipe in order to have something to attach the pvc pipe to, until I converted the larger pipes to pvc on another day. I have no idea where I should cut that at to get a good seal. Everything looks rusty. An unreasonable mindset somehow pictures tightening a clamp "too tight" and the big sewer pipe collapsing. That's probably incredibly unrealistic given this hulking cast iron pipe, even at 66 years old. Or, cutting through it and a bunch of sewage coming out. Probably unrealistic, as well.

That would be step one. That drain looks like it  is elevated x inches above where the actual sewer pipe joins the toilet  pipe, but I still wouldn't want anyone using the toilet or kitchen sink  when doing this stuff. Two ladies (family) currently reside in the house, so that's uhm...going to be interesting trying to do all of this in a reasonable time frame without them freaking out over it taking so long. I'm sure a plumber would take a while to do it, as well...only at $100 or more per hour.

I presume that over hopefully a few days, that big puddle of water would eventually just dry up down there once the leak is gone. When I'm doing all of this crawling around, cutting (and blowing dust everywhere with the wind from the recip saw motor), I'll be wearing a half face respirator with P100 filters, covered eyes, etc.. I'm aware of Hantavirus risk from field mice, and pretty sure they are probably scurrying around in the crawlspace at night, so I'd rather not take any chances. However, cases here in Georgia seem to be rare and nearly non-existent based on the data that I could find.

Step two would be changing out the sewer pipe with large PVC, in  a second go on another day. That drain pipe is going to be interesting  to change and a lot of work. That's probably 20-25 feet of pipe from the  leaking area to this point. I don't want any more leaks in that drain pipe since it looks rusty, so I'd rather just go ahead and replace the whole thing with pvc all the way down to the sewer pipe. 

That big sewer pipe is a little intimidating.

My thoughts as a DIYer would be to maybe cut it about here and use a hose clamp to go to large PVC: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





I don't really feel like getting into changing that sewer pipe running  under the ground. Part of my mind wonders, "If I cut this pipe, is that  sewer pipe in the ground going to break somehow?"  It is 66 years old  and obviously the original. That dirt is so hard and packed that it is  like rock, plus that goes under the foundation of the house and out into  the back yard somewhere. I know that a plumber would probably charge  thousands for doing all of this, so I'm trying to make it a DIY project  since I'm about to pay thousands (which my mother doesn't have to pay)  to flip an a/c unit and get it out of that stupid hole. Pretty much with the goal that she can eventually move out of this place and not have to deal with this nonsense anymore.

Think I could do it or am I biting off more than I can chew so to speak?

The toilet pipe itself seems to be leaking from above. As best as I can  tell (will have to look again from the top of the wall), it looks to be  from a joint. They've got that pipe packed in against that joint in a  crazy way. Not to mention the fact that apart from the main toilet pipe, I've got to figure out where these other two "branches" go. One of them  is the unused bathroom sink pipe. I don't think the other one is the  tub, so that's fairly irritating. There's nothing else there. I'll have  to take more pics to see where these each specifically lead to and knock  on the floor or something to get someone else to see what it is under. They used these absurdly large cast iron pipes for little pipes in the house. Seems really dumb.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

Boy, It just gets more fun.
Near the toilet one of those pipes will be a vent that goes out thru the  roof. There should be another pipe vent out somewhere near the kitchen sink, you should be able to see them on the roof..
Frodo should be along for a look see, he can do in an hour what would take me a week to figure out.. It looks like you might have enough drop to run the kitchen pipe along the walls and stay out of the mud.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

If that is a cut floor joist, we can talk about that after or during the plumbing job.


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## frodo (Aug 4, 2016)

first things first


  temporary,  cut the sink drain, put a 20'   2'' pipe on it   with a nu hub clamp,  point it outside any way you can,  so you can wash dish's while working
tie it in correctly later


as far as the water under the house,dig a hole deeper than the river,  so it will all drain into the hole

get that water OUT from under the house.. once you have gotten out what you can.

remove the wet insulation.  REMOVE EVERYTHING that has been contaminated by the sewer water

buy 2  50 lb sacks of LYE,   coat the under side of the house with lye,  make it look like it snowed.

you need to kill the bacteria...it is on the wood, concrete  every where

after you have dusted the underside. layer the dirt with  plastic/ visqueen   this will protect you


buy a few https://www.coverallsdirect.net/dupont-tyvek-coveralls-ty122.html

and a respirator   gloves,   duct tape the arms and leg openings cloesd

your first job is to de funk the bio hazard under the house

after you got that cleaned up,   the rest will be waiting


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## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Boy, It just gets more fun. Near the toilet one of those pipes will be a vent that goes out thru the  roof. There should be another pipe vent out somewhere near the kitchen sink, you should be able to see them on the roof.



Ah, that's right. I forgot about the sewer gas pipe. There is one of those up in the attic, on the back side of the house. It is way over there in my non-favorite side of the attic where the space gets smaller and smaller and you have to crawl on nothing but floor joists. 

As for one for the kitchen sink...the only other vent pipe that I am aware of (there aren't any on the front of the house) is the one that is oddly placed over a bedroom. I've always wondered what that one went to. In the attic, when it comes down towards the roof, it curves towards the kitchen's direction, so that may be it. 








Okay, so one of those is going up to that sewer gas pipe. I've got to connect that one. The other one that used to be for the old sink drain... I need to just figure out a way to cut it/cap it near the floor and will  just have to leave it there. There is all kinds of foam insulation hanging onto that thing in the bathroom wall behind the sink, that I am sure of. Don't want to yank on it and cause any more leaks. I'll just have to try to cut it off as close to the floor as I can to try to keep as much weight off as I can. I can just leave it off when I run the new pipe. No point in connecting it. I just want to make sure that I leave the _right _one off in the process.


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## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

nealtw said:


> If that is a cut floor joist, we can talk about that after or during the plumbing job.



Oh yeah, that's a cut floor joist. Brilliant.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

Post a question in framing about the joist and we can deal with that.
I think first you want to use Frodo to get a handle on the plumbing.
He can help you figure out all the bits and pieces you need.


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## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

frodo said:


> first things first
> 
> 
> temporary,  cut the sink drain, put a 20'   2'' pipe on it   with a nu hub clamp,  point it outside any way you can,  so you can wash dish's while working
> ...




I would be starting the first part of it (the sink drain pipe) early in  the morning time on it's own separate day just to run the length of pipe  itself and tie it in (temporarily) to the sewer pipe. Realistically,  once I get that old sink drain pipe cut off  (probably 4-5 foot long  sections at a time so that I don't have a hundred pounds of pipe trying  to hit me in the head)...I've had considerable experience with PVC. I  can run that entire length of PVC pipe properly in 1-2 hours max, all  the way down far enough to tie into the line. My main concern is just  getting the rubber clamp connection portion on both ends to bridge the  pipe. I don't want any more leaks, of course. That pipe is whole, so of  course I can't measure the diameter properly from inside. The basement  is one of those where you don't really want to go back into the house or  get in the car to go shopping and buy what you need after the fact of  cutting the pipe. I'm pretty paranoid about it, actually. My clothes get  a deep wash in very hot water for a long time when I come back in, even  if I was wearing coveralls.

Could I use some kind of hand-held siphon to get the water out once the pipe has been fixed? That dryer vent over there...I uncovered the vent cover just temporarily to see how close it was. I could run a hose out of that and it would be outside. That's maybe 10-12 feet or less from where the pool of water is.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Drill-Pump-DRP-1/203449537


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## frodo (Aug 4, 2016)

what you need is    Fernco Inc. P3001-22 2-Inch Proflex Coupling For Cast Iron, Plastic Or Steel 





tricks for cutting cast iron

go buy visqueen,  spread it out over the top so you are laying on plastic, not funk

you can use a 4 1/2 '' grinder
you can use a saw zall with a metal blade
yo can use a hammer and crescent wrench

get the boi hazard water out from under the building any way you can.  what ever works for you as long as it is not in your mouth or in your eyes

make sure you have no cuts or scraps visible to it....it is bacteria ridden and will make you sick.

i can not voice this loud enough and often enough

you must use care when dealing with this bio hazard. this is not a joke

get the lye on  it.  kill it


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## frodo (Aug 4, 2016)

after.  you get the bio under control

the picture you showed.  that plumbing needs replacement


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

frodo said:


> after.  you get the bio under control
> 
> the picture you showed.  that plumbing needs replacement



I think his plan is to replace everything below the floor. After he gets this under control, he will need help with the details for the big job.


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## jmr106 (Aug 4, 2016)

I want to change everything down to where the sewer line enters the dirt. I just don't want to have to dig and replace any of that pipe if I can help it. All of that crawlspace dirt is so stiff that it feels like rock. Any ideas on determining what size pvc pipe to use? Some of the drain pipe has huge joints and then the pipe is much smaller. It looks like it varies.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

Here's a chart so you can just measure the outside.
they make fernco fittings to join what ever pipe you have to cast iron
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/cast-iron-soil-pipe-dimensions-d_1751.html


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## jmr106 (Aug 5, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I think his plan is to replace everything below the floor.



It is...but what are the odds of the pipe between the toilet and floor leaking in the near future? The actual leak seems to be coming from that joint right at the bottom of the floor joist, as far as I can tell. The toilet pipe has a somewhat small leak that just runs down and drips a bit with each flush. Compared to the kitchen pipe, which can pour out gallons of water into what is already down there. So I'm trying to get that one out of the way first and get it connected to the sewer pipe temporarily so that when I go to do the sewer pipe, all that I will have to do is bridge the pipes together and focus on that one area.

The base of that pipe is pretty low and easy to get to. The part of the toilet pipe up near the joist requires balancing on the wall. It is just too awkward to try to reach it from the dirt, so I won't be sitting on or standing on the dirt. I'll either be standing on the ground in the large hole or squatting down on top of the wall trying to do the best that I can. I have my "basement boots" that I wear down there...they're similar to the thick rubber knee-high boots used for fishing.


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## nealtw (Aug 5, 2016)

jmr106 said:


> It is...but what are the odds of the pipe between the toilet and floor leaking in the near future? The actual leak seems to be coming from that joint right at the bottom of the floor joist, as far as I can tell. The toilet pipe has a somewhat small leak that just runs down and drips a bit with each flush. Compared to the kitchen pipe, which can pour out gallons of water into what is already down there. So I'm trying to get that one out of the way first and get it connected to the sewer pipe temporarily so that when I go to do the sewer pipe, all that I will have to do is bridge the pipes together and focus on that one area.
> 
> The base of that pipe is pretty low and easy to get to. The part of the toilet pipe up near the joist requires balancing on the wall. It is just too awkward to try to reach it from the dirt, so I won't be sitting on or standing on the dirt. I'll either be standing on the ground in the large hole or squatting down on top of the wall trying to do the best that I can. I have my "basement boots" that I wear down there...they're similar to the thick rubber knee-high boots used for fishing.



I saw the wet spot under the toilet and that's likely a leak in the wax seal under the toilet, I would go after the other one first.. When you do the big job you will want to change the toilet flange to plastic anyway and new wax seal all at the same time.


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## jmr106 (Aug 5, 2016)

frodo said:


> what you need is    Fernco Inc. P3001-22 2-Inch Proflex Coupling For Cast Iron, Plastic Or Steel
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## nealtw (Aug 5, 2016)

That fitting is for 2 pipes the same size, I think.
You will want one that is for 2" cast to 2" pvc, or what ever you are using they are labelled.

To be sure you are cutting square on the pipe, wrap a sheet of paper around the pipe, line up the sides so it overlaps neat tape it there. cut along the edge of the paper.
That's a nice blade and it's new to me, the cheaper metal blades would work too, but I would go for that one. Don't go at full speed, take your time when cutting metal.


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## jmr106 (Aug 5, 2016)

nealtw said:


> I saw the wet spot under the toilet and that's likely a leak in the wax seal under the toilet, I would go after the other one first.. When you do the big job you will want to change the toilet flange to plastic anyway and new wax seal all at the same time.



I vaguely remember a plumber changing out the toilet back when I was a kid. The base underneath the toilet (part that it screws down to) is like this big square plastic (or metal?) piece, I'm not sure. Am I going to need to replace that, as well? Or just the flange part? When I search for bases, I can't find any pictures that look like what I remember seeing. Just the flange and wax ring, right? I've never set those before, but it shouldn't be too bad. I guess I'll just have to wait and see when I get to it.


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## nealtw (Aug 5, 2016)

Don't loose any sleep about that.


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## jmr106 (Aug 5, 2016)

nealtw said:


> That's a nice blade and it's new to me, the cheaper metal blades would work too, but I would go for that one. Don't go at full speed, take your time when cutting metal.



Fortunately, I happened to buy something similar to this a while back. 







I think the one pictured is an older 4amp version. This one is a 7amp. One-handed with dual led lights on either side of the blade. The torque isn't too bad and it cuts pretty clean one-handed. That should come in handy when I need my other hand to grab the pieces of the falling pipe. If I tried to cut it with one of the full-size sawzalls, I'd probably be banging around everywhere, stirring up all kinds of dust, dropping pipe pieces as they were cut, etc. I'm going to use the slower, non-orbital mode. The orbital feature cuts better and more aggressively, but I'd probably cut more of my hand than the pipe.

I'm trying to imagine what kind of stuff I'm dealing with in that water. Drain pipes are nasty in themselves, of course. The sink drain pipe...old food, dirty water, dish water, hands washed with raw meat and such. So I'm assuming there may be E.Coli in that big puddle of water down there. Typhus apparently loves to live in sewer pipes, as well. From what I have read in some places, breathing sewer fumes can potentially give you Typhus fever. That's not exactly comforting. I don't even want to imagine what kind of bacteria has been breeding in that 66 year old sewer pipe. I have been debating whether to use 2-3 layers of smaller gloves (which tend to break) or something like those long blue or green chemical gloves that go up to the elbows for the kitchen sink pipe. I'm a contacts wearer, so I'm probably going to throw some chemical goggles on.


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## nealtw (Aug 5, 2016)

Slide a chunk of 2x10 in there so you can work off that and stay out of the mud.
Pick up a roll of rebar tie wire, a few nails in a joist and a few wraps of wire near the cuts so it doesn't fall down.


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## frodo (Aug 5, 2016)

you need to dig up the sewer outside your house
dig up the sewer under your house
and replace everything from outside  in     

sounds like your place has been patch this patch that for years,  
time to stop patching and remove and replace the plumbing under the house


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## frodo (Aug 5, 2016)

let me know when/ after you get the bio hazard cleaned up

we can start then


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## jmr106 (Aug 5, 2016)

I have a half face respirator. Do you think P100 filters would be sufficient for everything I would encounter?


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## frodo (Aug 5, 2016)

jmr106 said:


> I have a half face respirator. Do you think P100 filters would be sufficient for everything I would encounter?



that will be fine,


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## jmr106 (Aug 6, 2016)

I need to go out and buy everything that I need first. I'm going to see if I have time tomorrow to change out the leaking kitchen drain pipe.  Unfortunately, work hasn't been permitting for pre-purchase. I'm probably going to have to chase some stuff down at a variety of places

First plan is to pump that water out of there before doing anything else. Probably will just go with a cheap drill pump. Seems to be around $5-$10 on average. It will be tossed after it has served its purpose. Not hanging onto anything that I can't disinfect properly (internally) after use. It will (knock on wood) be a nice sunny day outside at 94 degrees, so that water should dry up rather quickly and the sun should help kill any bacteria.

Out of curiosity, is lye the only thing that would work to disinfect it the areas? Do they make anything that I could buy that might do something similar? I'm kind of curious how I'm going to get that much powdered down there and spread out properly without getting it all over me. I'll be using some type of thick plastic material and such so work on and possibly to throw on top of the muddy hole that would then have lye in it. Is it going to eat through that eventually? I'm going to go with the tyvek coveralls, respirators, closed goggles, thick gloves, etc. At the same time, I don't want to get it all over the gloves I'm going to be using to touch the drill, sawzall, pipes, etc. I've never worked with lye and it is apparently pretty caustic. Will it eventually go away or lose its alkalinity when left? Is this something I should put down by hand with thick chemical gloves, shovel it or something else? I'm kind of wondering how (even though I'm not focusing on the sewer pipe just yet) I'm going to get lye onto the floor joists and such without getting it all over me. I could put some in the other area where the toilet pipe is (which I'm not trying to fix as of yet), but it is just going to leak more on top of it until I have this other pipe successfully ran and can actually disinfect it knowing that the sewer pipe will be changed soon.. The toilet pipe leaks in drips. This drain pipe pours out in probably a gallon or two per minute, so I'm trying to fix that since the sink gets so much use. The other reason why I want to change the entire sink drain pipe down to the sewer line is because I think it may still have a clog in it somewhere. It seems like all of the water going down the sink is coming out of the hole. If I had to guess based on what I saw, that hole is somewhere around nickel-sized to quarter-sized.

It appears that Home Depot does in fact carry the nicer reinforced couplings, so I hopefully won't have to be ordering that stuff online. I'll get down there and measure the size of the pipe joining the sewer line (not too hard to get to, compared to going all the way to the other end). Maybe it is just a trick to the eyes, but the kitchen drain pipe that joins the sewer end looks a little "smaller" and different than the size of the pipe where the actual leak is. Maybe it is just an illusion and my eyes.


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## jmr106 (Aug 6, 2016)

frodo said:


> you need to dig up the sewer outside your house
> dig up the sewer under your house
> and replace everything from outside  in
> 
> ...




So I'd eventually have to dig up the part that is going into the dirt and under the house foundation, running out into the back yard? I'm generally all in for doing everything completely, but she's not planning on being here long enough for it to be worthwhile to change the entire length in the yard. Plus, I'm trying to take care of typical stuff at my place on the side, too. Gets a little challenging.


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## frodo (Aug 6, 2016)

if you want to get out cheap

just replace the 2'' line going to the kitchen sink  and lie the ground the cover in plastic.  walk  away



as far as the lye/lime  goes.  it kills and eats bio material.  you can use lime, or lye   your choice  

i suggested before,  get a tyvek suit that i posted a link on

it is a full body suit that zips up

they cost like 8 bucks.,  rubber gloves,  tape the sleeves closed over the gloves


you will get the lye/lime all over you.  that is WHY is said get the suit

take a paper plate, fill it full of lie and throw it all over the place.  

repeat, repeat, repeat till it looks like a blizzard hit the place.  

cover the lye earth with plastic visqueen


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## jmr106 (Aug 6, 2016)

frodo said:


> as far as the lye/lime  goes.  it kills and eats bio material.  you can use lime, or lye   your choice




I don't know much about lye or lime. Any chance that the lime is less caustic? It isn't that I don't want to put something down to disinfect it. I'm just wary of how caustic it is. I don't want anyone getting into it in the future and getting their skin eaten up (even future owners, anyone that they have do repairs, etc.). I know that the plastic will be over it, but it has me thinking about it. I'll be picking up quite a few of those coveralls. I've looked at them previously when exploring my options for the crawlspace. 

Does lime or lye have a smell to it? Will I be able to notice it in the house?


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## frodo (Aug 6, 2016)

you need to kill the bacteria,  do a google search on the msds of lime


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## jmr106 (Aug 6, 2016)

Well, that project definitely wasn't going to happen today given the time after I got everything. As I figured, I had to go to a variety of places to get what I needed. I knew that by the time I got back, it would be too late to start the project anyway. Didn't get a chance to measure the pipe and it wouldn't have done me any good anyway since it was so late. I'll measure that sometime this week and figure out what size I need (pretty sure that's a 2 inch by eyeballing it). The lye/lime, primer/glue, pipes and fittings will be picked up early in the morning on a final run when I get my next off day. 

Checked out the fittings. Home depot has what they called "shielded" fittings for cast iron to pvc, but they look like knockoffs and definitely aren't Fernco. I couldn't even find a brand name on it. Is the quality difference between generic worth it or is Fernco just a general name that many people use to describe that type of fitting? I noticed that the shielded fittings are apparently quite unique in that the pipe clamps themselves are riveted in place on at least one side to keep them in the right spot. It had two clamps on each side and some kind of metal reinforcement between the clamps and the rubber.

Priced the PVC pipe and it seems pretty reasonable (not so for that darned sewer pipe in the next project, it seems). Probably will be picking up about 3 lengths (30 feet) because it is a pretty good distance from the front drain to the back sewer pipe and goes diagonal for a lot of that.

Picked up some P100 filters (old ones weren't good), a few hooded tyvek coveralls just in case something tears or I need more than one, visqueen (they only had 3.5 mil, but 10ft x 25 ft and I could double it over if need be), a few pairs of heavy duty neoprene long gloves (chemical gloves) in case one tears or for the next project, 5GPM drill pump, a cheap sacrificial garden hose to gut and connect to the pump so that I can drain the water a good distance from the house, an extra carbide blade in case I encounter any difficult with cutting, etc.  Anything extra can always be returned later, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

So, I'll be checking back in after I have everything ready to go.

I gotta say, that crawlspace gives me the heebie jeebies every time I look at the video that I shot a while back of the leak and to get better photos (I screen grab from the video and turn it into photos instead of taking a zillion photos trying to get proper lighting down there). I haven't had time to properly seal that crawlspace door or the vents yet, but sometimes I'm tempted to set off those Raid fumigators early considering the endless webs right above where I'm going to be working. Did I say how much I dislike spiders in enclosed spaces?    I should invite The Munsters over for tea...they'd love it down there.







When I go down to measure the drain pipe, I'm going to see if I can get some solid panoramas of the sewer pipe (for the next project) configuration all in one photo. The photos of separate pieces of pipe here and there make it rather confusing.


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## frodo (Aug 6, 2016)

hey man,,, get some plumbers strap  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




before you cut the cast iron,  add a piece of strap on each side of the cut.  so it will not fall on your head turn you into an electrician


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## jmr106 (Aug 6, 2016)

frodo said:


> hey man,,, get some plumbers strap
> before you cut the cast iron,  add a piece of strap on each side of the cut.  so it will not fall on your head turn you into an electrician




I actually have an entire roll of that from a project a long time ago. 100' of 3/4" steel hanger strap. I'll just have to be careful...that stuff sure has some sharp edges that I learned about quickly. Hang it up ahead of time to keep the pipe from falling, slide the pipe out sideways and stick the new pipe on the hanger while I glue it.


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## slownsteady (Aug 6, 2016)

Here's some info you might find interesting...
http://terrylove.com/forums/index.p...-disinfect-the-crawl-space-with-bleach.48069/

Note to some of the old-timers here: guess who provided the long, detailed answer in this thread....Nestor!


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## jmr106 (Aug 7, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Note to some of the old-timers here: guess who provided the long, detailed answer in this thread....Nestor!



Isn't that the guy who passed a while back? I think a little while after I joined here, I saw some of his posts. He locked horns with a few people, from what I remember. haha  But he seemed like a really good guy with a lot of knowledge. The good ones always seem to go early.


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## slownsteady (Aug 7, 2016)

Yep, the same guy, no doubt. That struck me especially significant; that his posts live on.


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## jmr106 (Aug 15, 2016)

Fumigation of the crawlspace completed this morning. Wednesday I'm going to try to pack in everything. Pump out the water, disinfect, cover it with plastic and change out the length of pipe. 

Questions:

I saw a guy cutting a cast iron pipe with a sawzall in a youtube video. It was coming out of the ground and going into the dirt and it was a larger pipe like the sewer pipe that I'm eventually going to do. The guy used WD-40(!) as a lubricant while cutting. Seems like a fire hazard. Obviously, that blade is going to get hot. Should I worry about the blade warping or sparking when I cut the smaller drain pipe? Do I need to lubricate it with anything?

Also, obviously nobody can use the kitchen sink while I work on the drain pipe. That sink drain pipe looks to be maybe half of a foot above the actual sewer line that it branches off from. Should I be concerned about toilet flushes causing water to come up to and out of that level of the sink drain pipe?


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## nealtw (Aug 15, 2016)

I have never thought of using oil or anything just a blade made for metal and cut slowly.
For a pipe that measures less than 2" I would just use a skill saw with a metal cutting disc.
Even with a 4" I would start with the skill saw for one pass and then cut thru to the other side with the sawsall.


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## slownsteady (Aug 15, 2016)

The sawzall should work fine. You will have to work to keep the cut square, though. You can use oil on the cut; it will not burst into flames.
For the record, lye and lime are not the same. Lye is water-soluble, so I *guess* that it will eventually absorb into the soil and no longer be caustic.


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## jmr106 (Aug 16, 2016)

I have these chemical gloves.

Lye is apparently Sodium Hydroxide. 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Long-Cuff-Neoprene-Glove-Large-EB00131-L/203613745

They go about halfway up the arm. They are listed as "Good" protection from Sodium Hydroxide. The only step up is Excellent, which apparently is a vinyl glove of some sort. HD doesn't carry that kind of stuff in the store, however. 

I threw on a simple P100 strapped face mask just for the basic crawling around in the crawlspace today setting off the fumigators. Man, after 5 minutes, I could feel the general humidity and atmosphere down there. It was only about 11am and the sun wasn't even fully up yet. Maybe in the early 80's at most. The air keeps it cooler down there when running, but when off, it is pretty interesting down there. Seemed almost hard to breathe after a bit of time. I'll be taking a lot of periodic breaks. 

I was reading some of the stuff about lye, though...I came across this.

"Caustic lye products pose other dangers to surfaces. They can  dissolve substances to the user's advantage, such as hair clogs in a shower drain, as well as to the user's detriment, such as the adjacent shower  curtain. In fact, these products can damage and corrode paint, metal,  cloth, plastic and especially skin. It can be so reactive that, in its  solid form, it should be kept away from metals, such as aluminum, and  the open air. It usually is non-combustible when dry, but it could  ignite and cause a fire when mixed with water."

Am I going to get a boom if I throw this stuff in powder form in a wet hole? Pretty sure there's a lot of aluminum in that HVAC system...makes me kind of iffy.


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## nealtw (Aug 16, 2016)

http://unionsafe.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Sewage-Spills.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/publications/guidance_flooding.htm


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## jmr106 (Aug 16, 2016)

Is a mixture of bleach water a viable alternative for spraying the ground, pipes, etc., with?


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## nealtw (Aug 16, 2016)

jmr106 said:


> Is a mixture of bleach water a viable alternative to spraying the ground, pipes, etc., with?



You are assuming I read those two posts.
I don't like the idea of lye, and I don't know about lime so I really don't have any usable knowledge. I would ask the people at the city for common practice.


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## mabloodhound (Aug 16, 2016)

Definitely do not use the orbital action of the sawzall.  That's for wood.  The regular action will work fine on cast iron...slow and easy for a nice straight cut.  Not much of a fire hazard from cutting cast iron this way so any lubricant is fine, BUT probably not necessary on that small pipe.  And yes, you could get backup into the sink drain from a toilet flush.
I do not envy your job.

And if you are going to fix that 4" main drain you definitely want to start at the toilet and replace the entire setup with PVC, at least to the part of the main under the house going to the outside.  You'll have to dig up a little bit there to get the rubber connector on.  
And at the toilet, you may have to replace a small potion of the floor sheathing to get the new flange to work at the correct height.
Did I say I don't envy you?

Dave Mason


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## jmr106 (Aug 17, 2016)

mabloodhound said:


> Definitely do not use the orbital action of the sawzall.  That's for wood.  The regular action will work fine on cast iron...slow and easy for a nice straight cut.  Not much of a fire hazard from cutting cast iron this way so any lubricant is fine, BUT probably not necessary on that small pipe.  And yes, you could get backup into the sink drain from a toilet flush. I do not envy your job.
> 
> And if you are going to fix that 4" main drain you definitely want to start at the toilet and replace the entire setup with PVC, at least to the part of the main under the house going to the outside.  You'll have to dig up a little bit there to get the rubber connector on.
> And at the toilet, you may have to replace a small potion of the floor sheathing to get the new flange to work at the correct height.
> ...




I don't envy me, either. Cutting with a one-handed sawzall with a blade for cast iron. The saw seems to keep the torque in check. No orbital will be used. Should be fairly easy to make a clean cut. I wish I could change the whole pipe. The pipe under the sink is smaller diameter pvc clamped onto the metal pipe where it joins the wall and dives into the crawlspace vertically. But nobody can touch the metal pipe going vertical in the wall itself without ripping out everything. That has no leaks, however, so it should be fine.

4" sewer pipe doesn't seem to be leaking as bad lately for some reason. There wasn't even a softball-sized puddle under it in the dug out hole, like there usually is. That's going to be a project on another day. The toilet will come up, new flange, etc. I'm planning to replace down to where the pipe goes into the dirt (will dig up a bit on the inside part of the crawlspace). I'd do it further than that, but since she wants to eventually sell, I don't see a point in going all out. It won't sell for more money either way. Also, I'll have to figure out which of those branch pipes is the old bathroom sink drain pipe. No need to run that one since it goes nowhere. I'll have to figure out which one it is first. Not sure if I can get the stupid thing out of the bathroom wall/floor once I cut it, however. Those bathroom sink water pipes are still galvanized and I don't want to be banging on them.

Should I be trying to get a double clamp shielded coupling? I see single clamps on each side like this. http://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-EPDM-Rubber-Shielded-Coupling-P3001-22/100372290

The shielded ones seem a lot better than these regular ones http://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-x-2-in-DWV-Flexible-PVC-Coupling-P1056-22/100096490

It seems like the shielding keeps it from digging into the rubber.


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## nealtw (Aug 17, 2016)

The kitchen sink pipe  in the wall,, just put a new pipe down thru the floor. But you would still need to have the vent going up.
Either clamping will work and this is temp so you will be taking it out., just make sure it fits the two pipes you are joining.


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## jmr106 (Aug 17, 2016)

nealtw said:


> The kitchen sink pipe  in the wall,, just put a new pipe down thru the floor. But you would still need to have the vent going up.
> Either clamping will work and this is temp so you will be taking it out., just make sure it fits the two pipes you are joining.



I'm planning to just run a new pipe through the floor under the sink. I wonder what the state of Georgia plumbing codes say about that...I'll have to check and see. The bathroom sink pipe runs through the floor. The toilet water supply pipe also has pvc coming up through the floor. Not sure if those are code or were just quick fixes.

I don't like the way the pipe looks under the kitchen sink. I see specifically 1 1/2" pvc pipe clamped onto the old cast iron pipe that goes into the wall. 












That pipe looks absolutely cruddy. I don't want to replace all of the other pipe and have that one start leaking in the wall. Looks like a disaster to try to get that thing out of the wall, too. Thinking of just running my own 1 1/2" pvc through the floor all the way to the sewer line. 

I presume that before they had the pipe converted to pvc (told that a plumber did this, as well), there must have been some leaking under the sink. Some of the wood under the kitchen counter has apparently rotted a little over the years. I think a bit of the floor may be rotten, as well.   It is only in the area immediately under the sink, maybe a 2' x 2' or so area. What's my best bet for that? Get rid of whatever old wood that I can pull up and just put down some plywood over the top (screwed down to joists) and punch a hole through for the pipe? That will be irritating since the water pipes/valves are in the way and I can't just put the wood down over the top of them, of course. The drain pipe...I can probably cut that out with some kind of door knob saw attachment or something. It looks like some of the old flooring is still under there and solid.


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## nealtw (Aug 17, 2016)

The quick fix for the kitchen would be to go up thru the floor for the new drain cap the old pipe and put a tee where the joiner is now and use the old pipe for the vent and leave that pipe removal for another day.
To change the pipe in the wall would be just dig into the wall and cut the pipe above the tee and pull it up thru the roof and drop in a new one, there might be another hub in the attic but I doubt it.
Replacing the floor with plywood yes, good time to change the water feed to pex, if you run them back to where there is copper pipes you could join them there with shark bite, push on fittings, all you need is a crimping tool.


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## jmr106 (Aug 18, 2016)

nealtw said:


> The quick fix for the kitchen would be to go up thru the floor for the new drain cap the old pipe and put a tee where the joiner is now and use the old pipe for the vent and leave that pipe removal for another day.
> To change the pipe in the wall would be just dig into the wall and cut the pipe above the tee and pull it up thru the roof and drop in a new one, there might be another hub in the attic but I doubt it.
> Replacing the floor with plywood yes, good time to change the water feed to pex, if you run them back to where there is copper pipes you could join them there with shark bite, push on fittings, all you need is a crimping tool.



Meh..weekend project coming up. Gosh, the projects at this place always end up having sub-projects to make it a lot longer. 

At first I was wondering what in the heck is going on. 

Got the top connection on the bottom of the sink itself. That could probably use replacing. I see no leaks in it, but it looks kind of whacky.







Then it goes down into the p-trap, which seems normal. However, that top drain pipe coming down from the sink is 1 1/4". Then it goes down into a 1 1/2" p-trap, which then turns into 1 1/4" until it connects to the cast iron pipe. At the cast iron pipe, it steps back up with a connector from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". The cast iron is 1 1/2". We're apparently playing musical chairs with the sizes.







It looks like the bottom pipes may be some kind of older copper pipe. 








Is PEX replacing copper pipes for water now or is it kind of an either/or situation? Will PEX go directly into galvanized (say, if you didn't have time to finish and wanted to do some at a time)?


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## nealtw (Aug 18, 2016)

If the pipe are copper you could just cut them below the floor and join them later with shark bits
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.sharkbite-straight-coupling---12-in.1000791803.html
There are cheap cutters like this.
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.no-104-tubing-cutter-316-in---516-in.1000179459.html

I don't think you want to go to steel pipe you need an adapter to the pipe threads

Pex works with many fittings


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## slownsteady (Aug 18, 2016)

AFAIK, pex is used primarily for supply lines. I got the impression that Neal was talking about replacing them eventually.


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## slownsteady (Aug 18, 2016)

If all the other drain lines go down thru the floor, except for this one that goes into the wall, I'd be concerned that there is a reason for that. Like Maybe there is a tee behind that wall and it is a vent stack. If so, would it be okay to cap that pipe?


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## nealtw (Aug 18, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> If all the other drain lines go down thru the floor, except for this one that goes into the wall, I'd be concerned that there is a reason for that. Like Maybe there is a tee behind that wall and it is a vent stack. If so, would it be okay to cap that pipe?



Cap it below the floor had a tee where it joins now and use the pipe in the wall, it can be changed later.
He need to change the plywood and will disrupt the feed lines, but the are copper, so I suggested shark bits for now.


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## jmr106 (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm sure there's likely a vent. There is an "unknown" pipe on the back of the house over a bedroom. In the past, it had a leaking rubber boot around it and that was changed. It is in line with the kitchen, as well. The only thing is...if that pipe going into the wall under the sink went straight up, it would be in the middle of a window that is about 3 feet up from it right over the sink. So it would have to either bend with some 90 or 45 degree connections to get around the window and then go vertical. It would then 90 over the kitchen ceiling in the rafters, across the kitchen ceiling and all the way to the back side of the house where there is virtually no room in that little side rafter area...then go vertical out of the roof. 

Kind of curious...do all houses have vents on the back only for aesthetic purposes? This house doesn't have a single pipe or vent on the front of the house. Everything is on the back. I've noticed that in the neighborhood here, all houses seem to be like that.

Taken by the owner of the company that did the roof in February:












I think the rusty looking area of the pipe that goes into the wall under the sink is just rust from where they had the leaky old cast iron drain pipe years ago. It probably ran down the drain pipe and got it wet back to where it goes into the wall. If that was leaking in the wall, I'd imagine that it would run down and rust the part of the pipe near the wall in the crawlspace and keep running down. However, that section closer to the wall before the hole in the pipe doesn't really look rusty. I think I'm just going to go with the original plan and cut the pipe back near the wall, running pvc to the sewer line and clamp on temporarily until I tackle the sewer line in the near future. When I thought about cutting and capping the pipe under sink and going through the floor with a new pipe, I wasn't really thinking of a vent for the pipe drain, since the sewer pipe that it runs into has its own vent pipe elsewhere. That's way too much stuff going on. I'm going to change the part that is bad and run it to the sewer line. Change out the other pipes and leave it at that. At some in the near future, I'll do something about the wood under the sink and run the water pipes up with better connections.


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## nealtw (Aug 19, 2016)

I like the idea of leaving well enough alone, some one can finish that up if they rework the kitchen.


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## jmr106 (Aug 19, 2016)

I have had a lot of the "hardware store" type of people tell me to just cut the section of the pipe out with the leak and replace that. However, I have this gut feeling that somewhere in that pipe is a clog. My father developed mental issues that continued to get worse up until we lost him, so my mother has asked me, "Do you think that crazy thing just went down there and punched a hole in the pipe when it was stopped up?" I really couldn't answer that for sure. It is something that he "might" have done to rig it instead of calling a plumber or changing the pipe. That would explain why not much was done to fix the water issues in the crawlspace, too. Or...it could be the other issue that I solved a long time ago. The former owners had the dryer venting into the crawlspace in the front corner of the house, about 10 feet from where this pipe happens to be. Maybe the humidity and moisture got to it. Yet the rest of the pipe doesn't appear to be bad. Just the part that is leaking. So, I suspect a clog further down from the leak and all of the water is likely going out of that hole before the clog.

After I get the drain pipe fixed (I have everything to do it tomorrow morning), I'd like to do something about those pipes and the floor under the sink maybe on Sunday morning or another near-future date. Those are some weird water pipes. They "move" more than I think they should. I can literally pull up on the (copper?) pipes leading down into the floor and they both pull up around many inches up to half of a foot as if mobile. It doesn't break them...it just seems like they freely move. I can't officially locate them in the photos. One reason being that the stove pipe is odd and likely not up to code, either. I'll have to find some pics of it. The heating/air system is on a flex pipe connected to what looks like a very similar galvanized-looking gas pipe. That gas pipe in turn runs across there in a similar area where copper-looking water pipes are. I obviously don't want to mistake those. The gas pipe goes from the galvanized pipe to - as best as I can tell - copper pipe and goes up to the stove. That's probably not code. I won't be touching that one.


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## nealtw (Aug 19, 2016)

Pipes do wear out over time and you will likely find that it is half full of sludge and rust anyway.
The copper pipes moving at the floor just indicates how far away they are tied to the floor joist, first clamp my be 6 or 8 ft from where they go up.
Older gas lines were steel pipe and newer ones are copper, there should be yellow markers on it to indicate a gas line.

You may want to find where you could rent a small auger in a hurry if you need it when you open the pipe


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## nealtw (Aug 19, 2016)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6zMhaQpNU[/ame]


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## jmr106 (Aug 21, 2016)

The drain pipe was successfully ran today. Thanks for the help, guys. No pics of the finished product. I was dying to get out of that crawlspace afterwards. It took about 8 hours. I took a few breaks in between, but I was trying to get it done. I cut about a foot away from the wall and ran pvc from there. The pipe has a little rust on the outside of it there, but was quite solid and took a while to cut.  Then I noticed an interesting problem: the 1 1/2" cast iron to pvc fittings that I bought...the pipe was larger than them. So they had 1 1/4" pvc coming down from the sink going into a 1 1/2" p-trap, then into a 1 1/4" straight piece of pipe which joined the wall pipe with a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" adapter. Well, guess what...that pipe in the crawlspace wasn't 1 1/2" like the pipe that goes into the wall. I'm not sure that it was 2 inches, either. I had to return to the store and buy a 2" Fernco into 1 1/2" pvc to fit the sewer side and wall side of the pipe. It slid right over the top of the pipe with little resistance, so I'm not sure that was quite a 2" pipe, either. Whatever it was, the 2" adapter fit it and I had to tighten it down considerably to get a good connection. 1.75" pipe in the crawlspace, maybe? 

Something that I already figured ahead of time: it is impossible to duplicate the exact place where the original pipe ran and particularly the exact height and such. One of those old cast iron fitting angles was pretty odd. I couldn't match a fitting angle to it and had to do my own thing towards the end. I'm not kidding, that cast iron fitting looked like a 25 degree or 33 degree or something similar to that. I don't know what the heck it was and I have worked with a lot of pvc angles and joints. None of the angles that I had matched it. Maybe some type of pipe angle that they don't use anymore? I thought it was a 45, but it clearly wasn't. So, I ran the pipe a little further back away from the wall and bridged the connections in a custom way. When I change the sewer pipe later, I'll cut that pvc pipe again and just run the several feet around the hole and do a different type of connection so that I can have that water heater put in the back right corner. Right now, that temporary pipe connection is where I eventually want the water heater to go.

It appears that the sewer pipe also joins the tub drain. Not quite sure on the other connection yet. I'll take some better pics of that stuff when I go to change that pipe. It looks like the toilet pipe leak is coming from the pipe up right near the plywood and running down the sewer pipe. So...possibly a flange issue, bad wax seal, etc. 

That "hole" in the pipe of the kitchen sink drain...ah, yes...that was a lovely 1 foot or so long gash in the bottom of the pipe. I assume that just rusted out that way, but I'm puzzled as to why the pipe closer to the wall is very solid. I couldn't even fit the hole in all in the photo (which blurred a bit). As soon as water got to the left portion with the first bit of opening, all of it was simply falling out. The next section of pipe above the puddle...while I was cutting it and got halfway through, the pipe was literally falling apart in that particular area. The pipe further down from that (above the hvac vent) was more solid and so was the portion of the pipe going all the way down to the sewer line. When I made the cut closer to the sewer line to put the coupling on, that was probably the cut that took the longest. That pipe is still strong, albeit it has a ton of rust and crud in it. I was able to cut pretty straight on the pipes for the couplings. That one-handed sawzall is pretty good.















I got rid of a considerable amount of webs down from under there (lots of them are just webs with lint in them from when the dryer used to vent into the crawlspace) and pumped out as much of the water as I could with the drill pump. The pump broke after I got over half of the water pumped out and started leaking drips of water out of the shaft that joins the drill, so I trashed it. I think the sediment in the water probably ate up the seals. The area within about 10 feet of the hole is a little moist and muddy from the puddle being there for so long. All of that is covered in plastic now. Hopefully the little bit of the water that was left in the puddle will go away within a fairly short time now that no more is going down there. 

Found something possibly a bit alarming regarding the water flow into that hole, most of which comes from the back side near the water heater. I'm going to be addressing that/asking some questions in one of my other threads with some pics. I don't currently know what the heck it is.

So, job is done...and for a fit 33 year old who is into weight lifting and very active, I've used a lot of muscles today that I apparently don't use. All of my joints are aching and I feel like an 80 year old. Pretty sure that the respirator has deeply bruised my chin and my face is probably going to hurt tomorrow. I'm probably going to be walking like a cowboy by morning...:rofl:

But...one big project down. :trophy: I don't think I've ever done that much pvc plumbing from guesswork in trying to follow an old pipe.

At the end of all of this, I'm still wondering why in the older days they felt that these huge 4" or so couplings/joints were necessary on a 2" or under pipe. The whole idea just seems really dumb to me. It is like customizing your Honda Accord to use 40" tires with little rims when the regular wheels looked just fine. 

I probably saved a good $2,000 that a plumber would have charged for all of this. Quite happy with the results.


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## nealtw (Aug 22, 2016)

Good job nice to hear you got it done.:thbup:
They didn't have rubber joiners in the old days. They are packed with an oiled stuff they called oakum and covered that with lead, the fitting had to stand up and down when they pored the lead, it was nightmare work.


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## jmr106 (Aug 22, 2016)

Perhaps most disturbing was their fitting angle itself. It had only one actual angle on the pipe, and that was towards the sewer side to make the turn. It wasn't a 45 degree, clearly wasn't a 90 and I had never seen that before. Any idea if they used to work with some kind of weird 25 degree or 33 degree angles in the cast iron? I couldn't match up the cast iron angle with anything in pvc and wound up using a couple of other angles bridging the pipe from the other side to figure out how to get the two to meet in the middle.

Maybe in a week or two I'll tackle the big sewer pipe. At least I can sit on the side of the dirt or wall and do that, and can stand up in the hole when my legs need a break. I can see right now that will be a project to begin at about 8am with all supplies and extra supplies that may be needed. 

Probably one of the most frustrating things for me was getting adequate light. Everywhere you move, you bang your head on a gas pipe, water pipe, floor joist, etc. My flashlight caked over in mud when I dropped it. The stupid incandescent light (one of those work light deals with the light bulb inside of a cage and a hook on it) kept blowing out every time it got a tiny little bump, kept falling off from everything I hooked it to, etc. I went through 5 incandescent light bulbs within about an hour. I fixed that by using an LED light bulb inside of it. That was a project done fairly quickly and I didn't give much thought to the lighting. I'm going to get a good work light for future projects. One of those that sits on the ground with its own stand and can adjust up and down. I've found a 2,500 lumen LED work light that seems pretty good for future projects down there. No more darkness. Plus, the people who end up flipping that heating/air system and doing the near-future water heater install will appreciate the extra light down there.

That and my other concerns such as when I was cutting the pipe about a foot away from an old board that was laying on the dirt. I saw something move/vibrating on the board. Since there are so many spiders down there (even after fumigating - since it isn't closed up with the proper door and vents yet), I figured it was a spider. Nope, mouse droppings. Probably field mice. :hide: I was quite happy that I had my respirator on considering how nasty hantavirus can be. The Tyvek suits worked wonders - I'll be using a lot of those in future projects. Even though the suit had mud all over it, I didn't have anything on my clothes at all when I shed it. They didn't even tear, even on the sharp pebbles in the dirt.


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## nealtw (Aug 22, 2016)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJk_AWYdDw[/ame]


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## frodo (Aug 22, 2016)

........................


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## frodo (Aug 22, 2016)

.......................





jmr106 said:


> I couldn't match a fitting angle to it and had to do my own thing towards the end. I'm not kidding, that cast iron fitting looked like a 25 degree or 33 degree or something similar to that.
> 
> sounds like  a 1/16th bend  which is 22.5 degrees
> 
> ...



http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/...faq=supporting


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## slownsteady (Aug 22, 2016)

> Probably one of the most frustrating things for me was getting adequate light. Everywhere you move, you bang your head on a gas pipe, water pipe, floor joist, etc. My flashlight caked over in mud when I dropped it.



I find a headlamp is a really good investment. It doesn't solve the entire need for light, but it puts light directly where you are looking, and it doesn't tie up a hand, and you don't have to put it down and pick it up repeatedly.


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## nealtw (Aug 22, 2016)

All the plumbers have these and there are cheaper ones.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tasco-10...c-Cage-Light-String-Yellow-08-00190/203534172


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