# Roof / Chimney / leak



## brasilmom (May 11, 2012)

Greetings,

I got a new issue going on. Our roof was replaced in 2009, so it is a brand new roof and got a brand new "flat" roof as well. Last Sunday (5/6) we had a very heavy rain and ended up finding water in the ceiling in our sunroom. After the rain we did a inspection and concluded that it was not coming from the "flat" roof, as the chimney is above that. Today the roof contractor came by and after inspection concluded that there are point in our chimney that are probably to blame. Now, he could be right and could be wrong. In any event, there are some tuck point that needs to be done and I want to ask about doing it ourselves. I am not sure how else to check for the leaks...

Thanks. Be well
Miriam


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## kok328 (May 11, 2012)

Wait for everything to dry out and then take a garden hose up there and water down the areas in question.
Check for a leak before proceeding from one area to the next so you'll know which area generates a leak.


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## BridgeMan (May 12, 2012)

If it were mine, I'd first look at the chimney's flashing and top cap--that's where a majority of roof leaks occur.  Either deteriorated condition, top cap cracked and leaking, or flashing lapped wrong, or sometimes flashing even completely missing.  If tuck pointing is really needed (and causing the leaks), there should be areas where the mortar is almost non-existent.

Miriam is a beautiful name--it's Biblical, isn't it?


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## oldognewtrick (May 12, 2012)

If the roof was just replaced my first suspicion would be the flashing. Since it's been there since 09', I would look at the sides and look for areas where mortar or brick faces have become damaged. Also, what type of cap is on the chimney, metal or mortar?

As KOK stated, if you can't find visible evidence of problems with flashing or brick, then water test it. Start at the bottom and slowly work your way to the top of the chimney. Do one section at a time.


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## joecaption (May 12, 2012)

Post a picture.


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## brasilmom (May 12, 2012)

Thank you for all the replies. Today I was out all day and did not get the chance to make a closer inspections and take pictures. Perhaps tomorrow I will do that. The chimney needs some tuckpoint, but I have doubts that this would have be the problem as there are no chunks of mortar or bricks missing. I will take pictures of the flashing and post here for you to review.

The top cap is mortar and the roof contractor did it as part of the job. It all seems to be in perfect condition, but again, I will take pictures and inspect it all.

The flashing appears to be all in place, but my knowledge is very limited to determine if this is the cause or not. The contractor was fast to say that the problem is the chimney itself, but I doubt to be honest. 

BridgeMan, thank you for the compliment. Indeed my name is an Old Testament name. Miriam was Moses' sister. 

Thanks again for the help and guidance. Be well

Miriam


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

Good morning,

I took another look at it yesterday and also got some pictures. However, I am unable to upload the pictures. I tried first several pics together, it failed. Than I tried only two and also gave me an error message. I will try it a bit later as I need to get ready to school my child.
Thanks. Be well

Miriam


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## oldognewtrick (May 14, 2012)

Did you try to upload pics from the Manage Attachment area on this site or use an outside pic hosting site?


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

I tried from the Manage Attachments area. I was able to select the pictures, but it failed to load them up. What did I do wrong?
Thanks.


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## oldognewtrick (May 14, 2012)

Try again when you get a chance. InspectorD may have been sleeping at the Manage Attachment button.


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

Ooops, the pictures were a bit too big. I resize them and hope that now it will work. I will try to provide explanations on each one of them.


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

First picture shows the front of the fire place. The leak was directly on that side, inside the sunroom.
Second picture just to reflect the "flat roof" as it joins the shingle roof. Notice that there are some cracks on the white material. It is also a bit "springy" for a lack of better word. However the leak occurred in a higher part than that. We do not think it is possible that this was the cause of the leak. Nonetheless the contractor is coming back to repair that.
Third picture a side view of the chimney. And fourth picture is the back view of it. 
There are some areas where tuckpoint will be needed but it is not major stuff. The day we had the leak it was a very heavy, hard rain. 
Thanks for any and all input. Be well
Miriam


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## oldognewtrick (May 14, 2012)

Miriam, I'm sorry, your roofer doesn't have a clue on how to flash a chimney. The "L" flashing on the outside will channel water up under the counter flashing. Any airborne debris, pollen, leaves, dust will only make it worse. Tell him to look at the SMNACA manuel or go to the shingle MFG's website to see how to properly step and counter flash a chimney. If he tells you he's been doing it this way for years, tell him he's been doing it wrong.


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## oldognewtrick (May 14, 2012)

There appears to be effervescence on the side of the chimney, indicating water saturation into the chimney chase. Have him, or you, check the area where the brick steps out at the top for voids. A leak in the chase itself will usually show up in the ceiling around the fireplace.


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

Pardon my ignorance, but I do not understand the effervescencce part of it. If by that you mean the white looking thing, that is something my husband did some time ago as a tuck point. I know it looks awful and I told him so. This is something that I plan on doing and am also looking into a sealant to apply once the tuck point are all done. I would love suggestions on proper material to use.
Thanks. Be well
Miriam



oldog/newtrick said:


> There appears to be effervescence on the side of the chimney, indicating water saturation into the chimney chase. Have him, or you, check the area where the brick steps out at the top for voids. A leak in the chase itself will usually show up in the ceiling around the fireplace.


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Miriam, I'm sorry, your roofer doesn't have a clue on how to flash a chimney. The "L" flashing on the outside will channel water up under the counter flashing. Any airborne debris, pollen, leaves, dust will only make it worse. Tell him to look at the SMNACA manuel or go to the shingle MFG's website to see how to properly step and counter flash a chimney. If he tells you he's been doing it this way for years, tell him he's been doing it wrong.



And when we questioned him that, he said that the flashing we see is just decorative. He did poor for a "decorative" job that's for sure. I do not know what is underneath, but he says that the real flashing is underneath. How can I tell? I know that he is licensed by the manufacturer, and our hopes was that he knew what he was doing. I will, nonetheless look for at the MFG website to find out more.
Thanks. Be well
Miriam


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## nealtw (May 14, 2012)

Oldog: What do think of the join between the roof and the water deverter above the chimney? I would like to see more on the skylight. This will need to be inspected from inside the attic while it is raining. If the ceiling has vapour barrier a leal anywhere will show up where there are hple in the barrier. Lights, chimneys, vents and things like that.
How do the dish cables get into the roof?


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## brasilmom (May 14, 2012)

The are in the attic where the "problem" area is, is hard to access... imagine that. However, I will try to make my way up there and see if I can inspect that a bit more. As for the dish cables, they were installed before us, so with the older roof. We chose not to have it all removed as we may end up with that choice in the future.

And there are two sky lights there. One is to the left of the chimney and the other is directly behind it. I can try to take a picture later when the baby goes for his nap.


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## nealtw (May 14, 2012)

It can be very hard to get around chimneys and skylights and the sort, it can also be dangerous, there is a real danger of falls, the ceiling is unforgiving. I would not recommend you go up there while you are alone in the house.


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## brasilmom (May 15, 2012)

Nealtw, I did not venture up on the attic while alone in the house, however I did today. So, it is virtually impossible to access the chimney from the attic as the location of it is behind a vaulted ceiling which vaults into the attic. I can see just a small bit of the back wall and everything appears dry. We got another round of heavy rain but did not last too long. The rain that brought the leak was a long, heavy, and severe storm. The contractor is supposed to come back to do some "touch ups" on the flat part and he does not seem to be concerned about the water. He says it is the chimney itself. I may remove some of the wall paneling in the sunroom to see what is behind it. 

Can anyone here also give me some instructions, materials, for the tuck point. I know I can do it, but I want to use the correct materials to make it correctly.

I appreciate any and all help. Thanks. Be well

Miriam


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## oldognewtrick (May 15, 2012)

There is nothing decorative or functional about the flashing he fabricated. It took a lot more creative thinking to do it incorrectly than it would of to do it properly. Ever thing that shows will be a problem in the future. Flashing NEVER allows water to flow up under the flashing. Kinda like tucking your raincoat in your pants and wondering why your britches are wet. ( where have I heard that expression before)


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## brasilmom (May 15, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Miriam, I'm sorry, your roofer doesn't have a clue on how to flash a chimney. The "L" flashing on the outside will channel water up under the counter flashing. Any airborne debris, pollen, leaves, dust will only make it worse. Tell him to look at the SMNACA manuel or go to the shingle MFG's website to see how to properly step and counter flash a chimney. If he tells you he's been doing it this way for years, tell him he's been doing it wrong.



So, I am trying to locate something at the GAF website about the flashing but simply cannot. The contractor says that under the showing flashing there is the flashing itself. I have no idea why he would install two sets of flashing to be "decorative". In all honesty, I have no idea what to do about it all. I am not able to verify what he is saying and my husband is too nice to say anything. So, what is the thing for me to do?


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## oldognewtrick (May 15, 2012)

brasilmom said:


> So, I am trying to locate something at the GAF website about the flashing but simply cannot. The contractor says that under the showing flashing there is the flashing itself. I have no idea why he would install two sets of flashing to be "decorative". In all honesty, I have no idea what to do about it all. I am not able to verify what he is saying and my husband is too nice to say anything. So, what is the thing for me to do?



Live close to Nashville? I'd be happy to explain to him how flashing works.


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## oldognewtrick (May 15, 2012)

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,194076,00.html

http://www.gaf.com/Documents/SS-TS-07_Timberline_Series_Chimney_Flashing-_PDF-402-2727-v4.pdf


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## nealtw (May 15, 2012)

It looks to me that you would have to stand on the naibours roof to see this flashing, so I am left with the question. Why did he put it there? If he did a good job of flashing why did he feel the need for a cover up.


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## joecaption (May 16, 2012)

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,194076,00.html


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## brasilmom (May 20, 2012)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Live close to Nashville? I'd be happy to explain to him how flashing works.



Unfortunately not. We are in WI, near Milwaukee. I had the guy come over this week. He brought a mason with him, who said the chimney is much better than he thought. I will do the tuck point myself and am thinking about applying a sealant to it. I have heard about Siloxane spray sealer and want to ask around here if that is the way to go. Also, as for mortar, is there a specific kind I shall look for?

He will be back to look at couple areas, but is totally set on the idea that the problem is being cause by the chimney. I will ask him to remove the "decorative" flashing so we can look beneath it. We ran some water to test it, but could not reproduce the problem. 

It is rather frustrating. I just want to have it checked properly and repaired as needed.

I appreciate the help from all of you. Updates will come.

Thanks again. Be well

Miriam


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## oldognewtrick (May 20, 2012)

Water testing and not being able to replicate a leak is sometimes a result of water saturation in brick and mortar walls. If the leak only shows up after periods of prolonged rain, try repairing the mortar doing the tuck pointing and then seal the chimney with a masonry specific sealer.

As far as the flashing, your roofer needs to learn proper flashing techniques.


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## brasilmom (May 20, 2012)

Thank you Oldog. I will work on the tuck pointing this week or so. Can you recommend an ideal mortar as well as sealant?
Be well
Miriam


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## oldognewtrick (May 20, 2012)

Look in the Yellow pages and find a supply house that deals with masonry contractors. Tell them what you are trying to do and have them recommend products for your chimney. Stay away from the Big Box stores. 

Just my :2cents:


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