# Possible water coming through siding



## Kid-A (Jun 28, 2014)

I recently discovered that I have moisture in my walls, and I think it might be coming though the aluminum siding, but I can't figure out where. 

Here is a picture showing where the moisture was found on the interior. It was picked up with a moisture meter. 



And here's a close up of the siding. Is it possible that water is coming in through this small gap where the pieces overlap?


Any guidance here would be greatly appreciated. I have a smell throughout the house that I believe is mold from this issue. 

Also, I don't think it's a roof leak because there wasn't much moisture on the upper level. 


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## nealtw (Jun 28, 2014)

I would be more suspect of brick and window. Poor installation of the windows above could be a problem.
Brick will absorb moister and transport it to the inside, there should be a gap between the brick and structure so water can run down and get out thru weep hole left betwen some bricks at the bottom of the wall and over doors and windows.
Can't tell from the photo but if the window trim has been covered with metal, that might be a problem.
Water can travel great distence before it shows up in a house, so nothing is off the plate.


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## mudmixer (Jun 28, 2014)

Looks like a combination of a poor installation of the window and the flashing. The flashing, if any, not being under the primary moisture barrier (if any) over the sheathing and water getting behind the brick.

Aluminum siding is not waterproof, but only sheds some rain with  no wind or pressure/suction. The brick is much better, but still not waterproof.

Dick


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## Kid-A (Jun 28, 2014)

I really appreciate the feedback. 

Regarding window installation, what am I looking for? I didn't notice any gaps where water would get in, but I'll have to take a closer look.

As for the aluminum siding, should I consider replacing with vinyl and getting a proper moisture barrier in there? The house was built in 1940, so that's probably the age of the siding. The windows were replaced by the previous owner, probably cheaply since he was renting the house out. 

Also, here's a pic looking inside one of the air ducts. This is directly below the upstairs window, so directly behind the siding. It's currently dry, but obviously doesn't look good. 





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## Kid-A (Jun 28, 2014)

Also, why is it a concern if the window trim is covered in metal? The windows all have an aluminum frame around them I believe. 


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## mudmixer (Jun 29, 2014)

It is not leaking through the window trim and aluminum, but behind them. there should be flashing under the primary moisture barrier, so the water is directed down until there is a barrier of some sort.
whether aluminum or vinyl, they are just flat pieces of materials that will shed water from rains, but the vertical joints and channels cannot be relied on if there is wind. The lapped vertical joints are there because the siding is not stable and must be allowed to move.

Since it is 1940's construction, I assume you do not have a functioning moisture barrier, so moisture can enter and collect because of the lack of active ventilation. It is possible you also have some minor mold if you look inside the walls.

The headers over the windows could stop the moisture from getting down lower, so it collects there.

Dick


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## Kid-A (Jun 29, 2014)

Ok, I'm learning a lot here, thank you. So, here's what my "flashing" looks like above the windows. The first has concrete filled in and the second is right up against the brick so there's no gap. 




I see now that any drainage that might occur is being blocked. What do I need to do to fix this? I did some research online and I'm thinking maybe I could drill some weeping holes, at least as a temporary improvement?

As for the lower "flashing", it is caulked above the brick. Should it not be?




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## slownsteady (Jun 30, 2014)

> The house was built in 1940, so that's probably the age of the siding.



Not much of a chance that they used AL siding in 1940.....most AL was about to be used by the aircraft makers of WWII

I also see what looks like rust on the strip of metal between the brick and the window frame, so that is not AL. There is a gap above that plate; it isn't big, but it's big enough. That is probably solved with silicone, but prime that metal first.


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## slownsteady (Jun 30, 2014)

I don't think I've ever seen screws through the brick at the bottom of the window before.


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2014)

All siding will let water in in one way or the other. You haven't said weather this is a brick house or wood construction with brick on the face.
What really stops the water from getting in the house is the house wrap or tar paper behind the siding. Both Al and vinyl are good because they are loose and allow airflow. Better or morexpensive siding like hardy or cedar is now installed with spacers to keep it away from the house to allow the airflow. Brick over wood as alway been installed with that gap but there has to be a way for water to get out either at the bottom or above windows and doors.

WINDOWS have always been a problem and every few years they change how they should be installed.
The biggest problem with windows isn't that the water can leak in. It can't get out when it gets there. The old single pain glass may have had a "R" value but it wouldn't be much so the thay had lots of condensation when warm inside air came into contact with the cold window in the winter.
Lots of old house had no problem with windows as the winter heat in the house was not great and the house leaked so much air the water could evaporate and walls would dy out.
Over the years most old houses have been updated with new furnaces walls have been improved and made tighter. As these improvements have been done and the windows still looked good people just ignored them until one day they find a problem like they are rotten.

The problem with contractors that sell window upgrades is.
They quote a price and talk fast but don't worry about what caused the problems. They remove just enough of the old to get a new window to fit in the hole and hide the old framing or wood trim with a metal flashing. What most people don't get is that the best window with double glass is still only about a "R" 5 and the problem of condensation is still there and made worse by the metal trapping the moisture in the woodwork.

When we change windows we don't quote the job there for we only get calls for that after someone else has changed windows and the job has failed.

I think you should pick one window that might be a problem and see if you can remove the metal flashing just to see what they have behind it

It should come down in order top sides and then bottom.


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## Kid-A (Jun 30, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> Not much of a chance that they used AL siding in 1940.....most AL was about to be used by the aircraft makers of WWII




Ok so I'm probably way off on the age of the siding, but it is old nonetheless. 

I'm thinking that since there is so much moisture above the windows, it must be mainly coming in through the siding above. If I were to replace the upper siding and whatever moisture barrier is behind it, wouldn't that likely solve the majority of the problem? 


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2014)

Kid-A said:


> Ok so I'm probably way off on the age of the siding, but it is old nonetheless.
> 
> I'm thinking that since there is so much moisture above the windows, it must be mainly coming in through the siding above. If I were to replace the upper siding and whatever moisture barrier is behind it, wouldn't that likely solve the majority of the problem?
> 
> ...



I would not be thinking siding, with the HDG flashing just above the brick makes it look like they did a good installation. But I do think the windows should be inspected carefully and likely will need to be re-installed with some and maybe much repair to the wood around them which may require removal of the siding.
I can almost garrentee that it is all about the windows


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## Kid-A (Jun 30, 2014)

Are you referring to the upper windows where the siding is? Or the lower windows in the brick? Or both?

There didn't seem to be much moisture around the upper windows, but there was a lot both above and below the lower windows. 

(I think I need to get myself a moisture meter to check everywhere and understand exactly where the water is. I just had an inspector do a quick check.)


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## nealtw (Jun 30, 2014)

I would start by removing the flashing around the window unjder the ladder in the photo and poke at the wood there with a screwdriver and see how soft it is.
The problem is likely one or both of the windows upstairs but there will much to learn from the lower window and what ever the problem is, you can expect much of the same in every window in the house, assuming all were installed with the same proceedure.
This is the news proceedure for installing windows. Along with better flashing above the windows and expecting condensation around the window this gives it a way to get out..
When we change wndows we always find w few windows in need of more extensive repairs to the framing and we seldom see proper installation be those companys selling replacement windows. Especially the guys that add metal trim over the old wooden frames. Most times they are not making it better just hiding things they don't want to fix.
The biggest hint is the chaulking below the window trim, this should have been unchauked to allow water to get out.


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## slownsteady (Jul 3, 2014)

Look into brick sealer. It's a liquid that gets sprayed onto the brick to limit the absorbency of the brick. Brick is a porous material.


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## Kid-A (Aug 2, 2014)

Can someone please tell me if I should remove the caulk under the windows in the 2 locations pointed out in the pictures below?
The first is where the window meets the brick. The second is on the underside of the aluminum window sill where it meets the aluminum siding. 





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## Wuzzat? (Aug 2, 2014)

Spending $30 on a meter may reduce uncertainty and save a lot of labor.

I'd look for small variations in moisture with a meter 
after a dry spell and 
during wind/rain or just rain, and 
try to pin down the location of the incoming moisture before it spreads out in your wall by capillary action (wicking).

Due to wicking, water can even go uphill. The surface tension of water provides the energy to go against gravity.

A dehumidifier in the room may shorten the time it takes you to get ready for the next test.

I don't see how a 1/8" drain hole in the caulking at your arrow locations can hurt.  Packing the hole with some steel wool will prevent insect entry.


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## Kid-A (Aug 2, 2014)

Thanks. I did buy a moisture meter. Unfortunately I realized there's a metal mesh in my walls (plaster) around the windows, and I think that's throwing off the meter. So it's hard to pinpoint if/where there is moisture. So I'm trying to understand if there are issues with the way my windows are installed. 


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