# House Surge Protector



## Boca (Mar 10, 2016)

In Florida, if you are a FPL customer, do you have to subscribe to their surge protector program or are you free to have a private electrician install your own surge protector? The FPL program looks good but for full protection of appliances and tvs, etc. they are asking $15.00 a month. 
Can you 'do it yourself' or are you stuck with FPL?


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## nealtw (Mar 10, 2016)

I think anything on your side of the meter is your business as long as it meets code.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120604/columnist/120609833


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## Snoonyb (Mar 10, 2016)

Boca said:


> In Florida, if you are a FPL customer, do you have to subscribe to their surge protector program or are you free to have a private electrician install your own surge protector? The FPL program looks good but for full protection of appliances and tvs, etc. they are asking $15.00 a month.
> Can you 'do it yourself' or are you stuck with FPL?



This disclaimer tells a lot;SurgeShield is offered and provided by FPL Energy Services, (FPLES), which is a subsidiary of NextEra Energy, Inc., and an affiliate of Florida Power & Light Company, (FPL). FPLES' products and services are not offered, administered, or backed by FPL. FPLES telemarketing license #TC2770, 6001 Village Blvd., West Palm Beach, FL 33407.

This PDF is broader and answers your question regarding an individual purchase;http://www.fples.com/common/files/faqs.pdf

Pay particular attention to paragraphs addressing lose claims and reimbursement.


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## nealtw (Mar 10, 2016)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019F6X3I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## WyrTwister (Mar 13, 2016)

We have an outside ( rain tight )  loadcenter , feed by our meter base .

     I installed a Sq D unit that is an earlier version of this ;

http://www.homedepot.com/s/sq%20d%20surge?NCNI-5

     I wired it to a spare , 2 pole circuit breaker , in the outdoor loadcenter .

God bless
Wyr


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## CallMeVilla (Mar 14, 2016)

Here are some instructionals ..... if you. are experienced and comfortable working inside a main panel, the best way to go is to install your own

Main panel and surge protector ....  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LjjP4BXFwg[/ame]

Installing at front end ...  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrY4fFSESGw[/ame]

Another ...  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDCUOqeqOc[/ame]


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## KULTULZ (Mar 15, 2016)

CallMeVilla said:


> Here are some instructionals ..... if you. are experienced and comfortable working inside a main panel, the best way to go is to install your own.



But...is the warranty good if not installed by a licensed electrician? Does it require a permit? Home insurer compliance?


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## WyrTwister (Mar 15, 2016)

Warranty never entered my mind .  How are you going to PROVE anything ?

     I installed mine per manufacturer instruction .

     A surge suppressor may not help , but is about all you can do .  Or it may help .

     I have seen them go bad / out .  You assume it took a large hit & self sacrificed .  You figure it did some good & replace it with another one .

God bless
Wyr


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## KULTULZ (Mar 15, 2016)

WyrTwister said:


> Warranty never entered my mind .  How are you going to PROVE anything ?
> 
> I installed mine per manufacturer instruction .
> 
> ...



I am not trying to bust your package here, just trying to point something out to anyone that wants to do his/her/it's own work.

The way to prove it is with proper receipts.

Read the instructions and warranty coverage(s) very carefully. Would be a pain the posterior if a surge took out your fancy electronic display appliances and that curved TV and the manufacturer requests proof of  purchase/proof of proper install.

Also, does local code(s) permit a home owner to do this type of work w/o a license/permit? What does your home insurance policy say about DIY electrical projects? If the house burns and an investigator finds out of code electrical work?

Just saying...


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## Snoonyb (Mar 15, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> I am not trying to bust your package here, just trying to point something out to anyone that wants to do his/her/it's own work.
> 
> The way to prove it is with proper receipts.
> 
> ...



So, why not ask; I have a service which is attached to the cold water system, no other grnd., and I had to replace the main water supply to PVC.

Will a DIY surge suppression device protect my appliances, when installed following the UTUBE video, be effective?


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## KULTULZ (Mar 15, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> So, why not ask; *I have a service which is attached to the cold water system, no other grnd.*, and I had to replace the main water supply to PVC.





Your breaker box is not grounded through two grounding rods?



> Will a DIY surge suppression device protect my appliances, when installed following the UTUBE video, be effective?


If you have a whole house protector at the box *in conjunction* with surge protection receptacles (or surge strips) at all major electronic display appliances and all computer and television outlets (preventing internal house transient surges), you should be OK other than a direct lightning strike.

Read this tech article to start- http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61379.


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## Snoonyb (Mar 15, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> Your breaker box is not grounded through two grounding rods?



Actually the requirement for 2 driven grnd. rods a min of 7' apart was a change directed to the prevalence of 200 amp. services.

My question was primarily directed at the "DIY" and the knowledge of your system, V, having an electrician preform the task.

Regarding the first and second YOU TUBE videos, I found them to be on the verge of ineptitude, in defining the system and full of ASSumptions.

Here in the southern truly left coast there are in excess of 35sq.mi. of dwellings with the potential of having the original A base services and 1st generation ZINSCO panels.


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## KULTULZ (Mar 15, 2016)

I think what you are implying is that the videos offered were not up to speed, correct?

There is a series on YOU TUBE that is done by an experienced electrician and is much more informative. Let me try and find it.

Does this help your question(s) at all- [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQjHFwCYsk0[/ame]

Don't forget you have to protect the cable and telephone incoming lines also.

*ADDENDUM*- [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfu0X8t5H58[/ame]


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## Snoonyb (Mar 15, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> I think what you are implying is that the videos offered were not up to speed, correct?



What I'd like to see, is a video where the grounding is addressed in a initial survey, prior to the installation and none of these accomplish this.

While I am an DIY advocate, there is a learning curve, not limited to knowing what you don't know.

IE., there is a reason the term Dead Front Panel describes the cover on an electrical service which is removed to access its internal connections.

And it may not be because it is steel, and inert. 

Interestingly, in some jurisdictions service grnd. could be attached to metallic NG lines and rigid metal ducting. 




KULTULZ said:


> Don't forget you have to protect the cable and telephone incoming lines also.



For those who still have land lines and the cable grnd. protects against surges through the supply, it also filters static from other sources.



KULTULZ said:


> There is a series on YOU TUBE that is done by an experienced electrician and is much more informative. Let me try and find it.



While these are far more informative, they could have gone further.

 [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQjHFwCYsk0[/ame]

*ADDENDUM*- [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfu0X8t5H58[/ame][/QUOTE]


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## WyrTwister (Mar 16, 2016)

Ground rod or rods .  Or one or the other grounding electrodes per NEC .

God bless
Wyr


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## Snoonyb (Mar 16, 2016)

WyrTwister said:


> Ground rod or rods .  Or one or the other grounding electrodes per NEC .
> 
> God bless
> Wyr



??????????????????


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## WyrTwister (Mar 17, 2016)

I thought some one asked what to do if you found yourself in a situation with a plastic main water service .  And , thus , not useful as a grounding electrode ?

     By the way code does not require 2 ground rods , unless the soil resistance is too high , with just the first ground rod .

     When I upgraded my service from the old , round , 60 amp meter base to a 200 amp service , I drove 1 ground rod & then proceded to test it .  It was fine & I left it at that .  Inspector passed it and the utility tied it in .

God bless
Wyr


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## Snoonyb (Mar 17, 2016)

WyrTwister said:


> I thought some one asked what to do if you found yourself in a situation with a plastic main water service .  And , thus , not useful as a grounding electrode ?



Correct, I did, for the purpose of broadening the discussion.

Because if there is no ground in the system, of what use is the, or any like device, and who is more experienced in determining that.



WyrTwister said:


> By the way code does not require 2 ground rods , unless the soil resistance is too high , with just the first ground rod .



Correct it can be jurisdictional and again, who is more experienced in determining that.




WyrTwister said:


> When I upgraded my service from the old , round , 60 amp meter base to a 200 amp service , I drove 1 ground rod & then proceded to test it .  It was fine & I left it at that .  Inspector passed it and the utility tied it in .



In any of the videos offered, do any of the "pontificators", prior to installing the devices actually determine if there is, let alone discus grounding, its value, or purpose.

Simply assuming, like the average homeowner, who probably does not have any point of reference for the NEC, let alone address the long version of the title NEC, that everything is fine, is good enough.

isn't.


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## WyrTwister (Mar 18, 2016)

National Electrical Code 

     My Sq D  surge suppressor had 3 wires , if I recall correctly .  2 hots / blacks & a white / neutral .  Do not remember a green or bare wire .

     I terminated the white to the neutral bar .   This is in the outdoor , rain tite service entrance loadcenter .  Directly down stream of the meter base .

     However , the neutral is grounded via the grounding electrode system .  Which consists of the ground rod .  My water main is PEX , so no help .  Around here , we are highly discouraged from bonding to the gas line .  No structural steel to bond to .

     By the way , before I started upgrading our house ( built some time in the 1950's ) the inside loadcenter , kitchen wall opposite the old 60 amp round meter base had a bare copper conductor terminated at the neutral bar .  Never found where the other end is terminated .  Did not have a ground rod .  Found no grounding electrode conductor at the gas water heater , which was the traditional spot for the grounding electrode conductor .

     Now , at least , it has a ground rod .

     I may be wrong , but my information is many / most surge suppressors rely , primarily on MOV's ( metal oxide varisters ) .  They have a clamping voltage .  Above that voltage they conduct .  In my case , between the black wires to the neutral .  This is suppose to short " spikes " to the neutral & thus to ground .  When the voltage falls beneath the clamping voltage , all is suppose to go back to normal .

     I have seen surge suppressors blow up / self sacrifice , when hit with a " spike " larger than they could manage .

     Will all this work , ro some or any degree , if there is no grounding electrode system terminated at the service entrance neutral .  I do not know .  My guess is , to some extent .

God bless
Wyr


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## Snoonyb (Mar 18, 2016)

At least you had the inquisitive nature to investigate, where so many do not and rely on a, to me, flawed and incomplete presentation.

The last of those presented does not even mention a grnd. connection for the recep.

He could have installed a 1950's era 2 prong recep. with a NEMA, 2 to 3 adapter.

Somebody needs a shorting bar for inept.


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## KULTULZ (Mar 19, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> At least you had the inquisitive nature to investigate, where so many do not and rely on a, to me, flawed and incomplete presentation.
> 
> The last of those presented does not even mention a grnd. connection for the recep.
> 
> ...



I think what you are saying is that no reference(s) in the presentations was made to ensuring proper ground?

It was assumed that there was proper grounding.


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## Snoonyb (Mar 19, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> I think what you are saying is that no reference(s) in the presentations was made to ensuring proper ground?
> 
> It was assumed that there was proper grounding.



Heavy on the 1st 3 letters.

I'd like to see an introduction, ascertaining the grade of water service, a verification that proper grounding exists, with a short +/- explanation.

The "monthly participation fee" and the "kush-maker warranty", are a whole nuther story.


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