# Towing a car Houston Style.



## TxBuilder (Feb 5, 2010)

[ame=http://vimeo.com/9164041]Lethal Weapon: Houston tow truck driver shot at during tow, escapes with his life on Vimeo[/ame]

This is nuts. The tow truck driver gets shot at!


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## inspectorD (Feb 5, 2010)

Thought you guys are able to carry?? He did the right thing.
Yeeeha


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## TxBuilder (Feb 5, 2010)

We are. I don't know if we all do.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 5, 2010)

That's the problem with handguns.  No one has any problem with RESPONSIBLE people carrying weapons.  But these weren't responsible people.  Anyone who pulls out a gun and starts shooting to avoid a $100 towing charge and a $60 impound fee shouldn't have a gun.  They're a danger to society, and giving them a gun only increases the risk they're gonna kill someone.  That person is facing charges now, but he's just lucky he's not looking at 25 years in jail for murder.

I'm Canadian, so it's none of my business what you guys do within your own borders.  I'm just glad there are many fewer handguns in Canada, and the criminals that are shooting, are usually shooting at other criminals.  (and I don't mind that)


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## subzero (Feb 6, 2010)

It's too good he was saved, and is still alive


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## TxBuilder (Feb 8, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> That's the problem with handguns.  No one has any problem with RESPONSIBLE people carrying weapons.  But these weren't responsible people.  Anyone who pulls out a gun and starts shooting to avoid a $100 towing charge and a $60 impound fee shouldn't have a gun.  They're a danger to society, and giving them a gun only increases the risk they're gonna kill someone.  That person is facing charges now, but he's just lucky he's not looking at 25 years in jail for murder.
> 
> I'm Canadian, so it's none of my business what you guys do within your own borders.  I'm just glad there are many fewer handguns in Canada, and the criminals that are shooting, are usually shooting at other criminals.  (and I don't mind that)




If the trow truck driver had one though we might have one more bad guy off the street. when guns are outlawed only out laws will have guns. Then we are up a creek.


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## granite-girl (Feb 9, 2010)

I





> f the trow truck driver had one though we might have one more bad guy off the street. when guns are outlawed only out laws will have guns. Then we are up a creek.



What!  Go Nestor- I'm with you.  Maybe I should move to Canada


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## TxBuilder (Feb 9, 2010)

Don't do that then we would be  country of only gun nuts with the anti gun nuts gone. We would lose our balance. That's why America is great. Balance.


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## TxBuilder (Feb 9, 2010)

Don't forget I'm in Texas. Sometimes I do and forget that not all people are pro firearms.


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## granite-girl (Feb 9, 2010)

How true!  I'd never move to Canada- I don't think there is enough golfing months there for my husband


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 9, 2010)

granite-girl said:


> How true!  I'd never move to Canada- I don't think there is enough golfing months there for my husband



Well, it's true that Canada isn't world renown for it's golf resorts or beaches, but it can't be said that we don't have a sense of humour about our "sun tan challenged" situation.

No coolers needed for frosty alfresco | Winnipeg | News | Winnipeg Sun

Orlando's Seafood Grill (located about 300 yards from where I live) holds an outdoor lunch on January 7th of each year.  That, according to Environment Canada statistics, is the coldest $%^&ing day of the year here.  And, on that day the snobs of Winnipeg Society each pony up $250 a plate to have lunch outdoors at Orlando's.  The restaurant donates the food and service, and all money raised goes to charity.  This year they served ice cream for dessert and no one complained that their wine wasn't properly chilled!  

Truth be told, if it weren't for the white table cloths, those guys would look like a bunch of homeless people at a soup kitchen.

If I'm driving down Corydon I occasionally see all the TV station trucks and camera crews there.  All the newspapers report on it, too.  The people there get a lot of celebrity out of it (it's heart warming to see really rich people shiver) and it's all for a good cause.


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## TxBuilder (Feb 9, 2010)

Making a bunch of cold people colder?


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## granite-girl (Feb 10, 2010)

Hey Nestor
   I heard the Vancouver is having one of there warmest winters on record.  That sucks !  Mother nature never cooperates does she ?  
Even heard some of the events in the lower part (not the mountains) may be affected or they'll be making snow...


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## Wuzzat? (Feb 10, 2010)

Carrying a gun = 

"Social trap is a term used by psychologists to describe a situation in which a group of people act to obtain short-term individual gains, which in the long run leads to a loss for the group as a whole."

There's no solution.  

If no one has a gun and only one person gets one, then everyone needs one.  
And each person is then no better off, relative to each other.

BTW, I own a .38.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 10, 2010)

granite-girl said:


> Hey Nestor
> I heard the Vancouver is having one of there warmest winters on record.  That sucks !  Mother nature never cooperates does she ?
> Even heard some of the events in the lower part (not the mountains) may be affected or they'll be making snow...



Yes, it's Vancouver's luck to be having the warmest winter in decades right before they're supposed to be hosting the 2010 Winter Olympics.  Also, you can only MAKE snow if the temperature is near freezing.  If it's well above freezing, then the water you spray out the nozzles doesn't freeze, and you can't make snow.

What they're doing is trucking snow to the Olympic venues where they can, and air lifting it in by helicopter where they can't.

There'll still be snow on the slopes the athletes will be competing on, but it's going to require that we keep replenishing the snow on those slopes to ensure they aren't bare for the Olympics.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 10, 2010)

Wuzzat? said:


> There's no solution.



I think the best way to look at gun ownership in America is to lump it in with all of the other problems to which there are no GOOD solutions either, like capital punishment, abortion and affirmative action.

(Affirmative Action is where they specify that a certain number of people in a position have to be visible minorities, so what ends up happening is that better qualified people end up being passed over because they're not visible minorities, and the result is that jobs are filled and services rendered by less qualified people than would otherwise be doing those jobs.)


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 11, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I think the best way to look at gun ownership in America is to lump it in with all of the other problems to which there are no GOOD solutions QUOTE]
> 
> Why is gun ownership a problem? The second amendment gives Americans the RIGHT to bear arms. This right wasn't put in the constitution to allow for people to hang a firearm on their hip and walk around like Billy The Kid and shoot the first thing that moved. The founding fathers thought it was necessary to protect the country from a government that takes to much control.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 12, 2010)

Oldog/Newtrick:

     That's exactly correct.  Your country was founded by people who wanted to break away from a domineering monarch, and one of the ways they felt they could guarantee continuation of the principles of freedom and liberty on which your country was founded was to allow everyone to "bear arms".  The population would always outnumber the government's army, and so the government would always be "out gunned" in any public revolt.  That was a clever and effective way of ensuring that the government would always be subservient to the people, and not the other way around.

But, that constitution was written in what, 1776?  Times have changed.  "Arms" are still weapons, but there's little similarity between a musket or a dueling pistol and modern guns.  The Arms that you are guaranteed in your constitution have shrunk in size and increased in power and criminals are now using those arms to rob people, rape women and commit murder and other crimes.  This is something that was never envisioned by your founding fathers.

Really, in my view, turning to the U.S. Constitution to find an answer to a modern problem is the same thing as turning to the Bible to find answers to modern problems.  But, things have changed so much between then and now that answers that worked well back then don't work now.  According to the Bible, there's nothing wrong with slavery, and homosexuals are an "abomination in the eyes of God".  So, we should still have slaves and we should persecute faggots.

I believe modern problems require contemporary and effective solutions based on today's realities, and to say that handguns are protected by the Constitution isn't much different than getting some friends together to go beat the crap out of some gay guy, and claiming that the Bible protects a persons right to hate and persecute homos.

But, I'll be the first one to recognize that guns are an American issue, and it's really none of my business what you guys do within your own borders with the curtains drawn.

Also, I think everyone agrees that responsible gun ownership isn't an issue.  There are lots of people in my country that still use their guns to put food on the dinner table, and it would be wrong to take their guns away.  The problem is the 16 year olds that "wanna be a gangsta" and are young/stupid enough to shoot at someone just like on Snoop Dog's video.  If it weren't for guns falling into the hands of those people, there would be no issue.


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## funetical (Feb 12, 2010)

The American Mentality is unique and not understood on a global level. You really have to live here to understand it.

On the gun note though... Until we can rectify our existence against the world that we live in we will be forever at odds. Nails don't pound themselves into boards. Criminals don't turn themselves in, and no amount of good or happy thinking will bring back the lives of those lost to violence. Violence will exist in our cultures whether we want it to our not. It is a plague of man kind. Guns aren't limited to violent street encounter either. They are written into our constitution as both a defense against others but a defense against those who seek to rule us through fear and oppression. A well armed intelligent populace is a scary thing to those who seek to oppress us through those means. Exercising our right to carry and be armed it tantamount to our right to vote. By exercising both we are demonstrating force, and through force you can make change. This is the nature of the universe. Without force nothing changes. With the application of force we have movement, creation, destruction, and rebirth. I hope to someday live in a culture free of violence, but guns don't equal violence. People equal violence. I think realizing that and addressing that issue should be our primary focus. Guns are a means for violent people to express themselves. Normal people don't turn violent in the presence of guns. They become fearful of it's potential. Addressing the social issue is step one, not how it is presented on the microcosm which is our cultures.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 12, 2010)

Excellent post funetical, wish I could have expressed it myself as you have and where in the heck have you been. Miss your posting.


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## funetical (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm here reading from time to time. Lucky for me I haven't had any home issues recently. You guys seem to be staying busy.


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## TxBuilder (Feb 12, 2010)

I see you in the bottom of the main page. Welcome Back!


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## Wuzzat? (Feb 12, 2010)

funetical said:


> The American Mentality is


. . .fear.

If the defense budget for the whole world is $X, we spend $X/2 on our defense even though we are only 5% of the world's population.

Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt sells a lot of stuff to the public, according to 
Amazon.com: unSpun: Finding Facts in a World of Disinformation (9781400065660): Brooks Jackson, Kathleen Hall Jamieson: Books

We also consume 25% of the world's resources, which would be OK if we did 25% of the world's work.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 12, 2010)

Funetical:



> By exercising both we are demonstrating force, and through force you can make change. This is the nature of the universe. Without force nothing changes. With the application of force we have movement, creation, destruction, and rebirth.



Not sure this guy would agree that you need the force of arms to bring about change...






I agree to disagree.  I like it on this side of the border where only the police and criminals have guns, and you like it on that side where the fear is that without legal gun ownership, only the police and the criminals would have guns.  I still think that it's a problem with no good solution.  If there was a good solution, it woulda been solved by now.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 12, 2010)

NESTOR, you are right. there are no easy answers to the created problems we face. 

But remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. 

Has crime diminished since hand guns were removed?


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## Wuzzat? (Feb 12, 2010)

Game Theory says carry a gun because it is a dominant strategy

"In game theory, dominance (also called strategic dominance) occurs when one strategy is better than another strategy for one player, no matter how that player's opponents may play."

wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(game_theory)


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 13, 2010)

I understand the part about protecting the liberty and freedom of your country.

And I understand that the right to bear arms is carved in stone in your constitution.

But, as long as guns are legal in your country, you're going to keep hearing stories like the one that started this thread:

[ame=http://vimeo.com/9164041]Lethal Weapon: Houston tow truck driver shot at during tow, escapes with his life on Vimeo[/ame]

That tow truck driver in Houston was merely trying to do his job by towing an illegally parked truck.  The owner of the truck pulled out a gun and started shooting at the tow truck driver.  The guy wasn't protecting the liberty and freedom of Americans.  He was trying to kill a guy who was only doing his job.

Anyhow, I think we all agree that guns in the hands of RESPONSIBLE people is not an issue.  It's guns in the hands of the people in this story, that would start shooting and potentially kill someone only to save the cost of a towing fee, that's the problem.

If any off-duty cop pulled out his gun and started shooting at a tow truck driver that was towing his car, he'd be fired and never work as a cop again.  If people with guns can't learn to exercise the self discipline required to use them RESPONSIBLY, then they shouldn't be allowed to have them.  The greater the power you put in a person's hands, the greater the onus on their part to use that power responsibly.  And, it just seems to me that's not happening.  This guy is using that power to shoot and potentially kill someone to save himself a $200 towing fee ?!?!?.

Who here would want to see their son, brother, father or husband shot and killed over $200.

I don't have a problem with RESPONSIBLE gun ownership.  I have a problem with an irresponsible person pulling out his gun and shooting because he's not thinking of the potential consequences of what he's doing.  That is irresponsible gun ownership.

I think it's fine for people to have a gun to protect their own house from burglars, or for store owners to have guns to protect themselves from robbery and things like that.  Those people would only use their guns if they really had to.  They wouldn't start chasing away tow truck drivers with them.


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## funetical (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm going to tackle this one argument at a time. Remember Nestor I'm not arguing with you just your argument.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I understand the part about protecting the liberty and freedom of your country.
> And I understand that the right to bear arms is carved in stone in your constitution.
> But, as long as guns are legal in your country, you're going to keep hearing stories like the one that started this thread:
> Lethal Weapon: Houston tow truck driver shot at during tow, escapes with his life on Vimeo


We are always going to here these stories. The offender had a gun. The offender always has guns. They are easier to procure illegally. People aren't bad because of guns people are bad , people are bad on there own. If not there would be no need for law.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> That tow truck driver in Houston was merely trying to do his job by towing an illegally parked truck.  The owner of the truck pulled out a gun and started shooting at the tow truck driver.  The guy wasn't protecting the liberty and freedom of Americans.  He was trying to kill a guy who was only doing his job.


As are most people who are involved in violent encounters. The gun isn't the issue. The person was the issue. Address the issue.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Anyhow, I think we all agree that guns in the hands of RESPONSIBLE people is not an issue.  It's guns in the hands of the people in this story, that would start shooting and potentially kill someone only to save the cost of a towing fee, that's the problem.


Saying it boils down to a fee is an over simplification. The guy was drunk and felt himself to be defending his property. It was ill founded.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> If any off-duty cop pulled out his gun and started shooting at a tow truck driver that was towing his car, he'd be fired and never work as a cop again.


In Texas he would have been allowed to keep his job and continue working. Bullshit hypocrisy. 


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> If people with guns can't learn to exercise the self discipline required to use them RESPONSIBLY, then they shouldn't be allowed to have them.  The greater the power you put in a person's hands, the greater the onus on their part to use that power responsibly.  And, it just seems to me that's not happening.  This guy is using that power to shoot and potentially kill someone to save himself a $200 towing fee ?!?!?.


You don't learn to do some thing by taking it away and you don't learn to exercise rights by not having any.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> Who here would want to see their son, brother, father or husband shot and killed over $200.


I grew up in law enforcement. My father shot and was shot at many times. He was trained for it and prepared. The only way I knew this as a child was if he came home closed the door and cried to my Mom. My Father is a hard ***. Killing any one isn't easy. Nor is the thought that some one wants to kill you.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I don't have a problem with RESPONSIBLE gun ownership.  I have a problem with an irresponsible person pulling out his gun and shooting because he's not thinking of the potential consequences of what he's doing.  That is irresponsible gun ownership.


By the same logic Alcohol, Candy, Pornography, Food and everything else should be banned or regulated. We can't control the actions of the populace we can only educate them to the responsible use of the things in question. Before they argue these things don't kill people. Yes they do. And they ruin lives.


Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I think it's fine for people to have a gun to protect their own house from burglars, or for store owners to have guns to protect themselves from robbery and things like that.  Those people would only use their guns if they really had to.  They wouldn't start chasing away tow truck drivers with them.


Because that's illegal and immoral. How would it have ended if the tow truck driver was armed. What if he couldn't have got away? One more person that can't go home ever again. The argument is not in gun control. The argument is in assholes. 

As for Gandhi. 
Our attempts to get rid if the British through peaceful resolution didn't work. We tried. We petitioned. We demanded representation. The overwhelmingly oppressive force disagreed. The only way to subjugate us was through violence and because we violently resisted and won the history of the world has changed. That's not America-centric view of things. That's truth. We showed the path to not be oppressed by people who claimed to be our betters. We tried protesting (The Boston Tea Party, amongst others) and it didn't work. The world wants to look down on us because we live little freer. The reality of it though is that freedom and that initiative rest in the heart of violence. It's in understanding violence and using it responsibly that you get positive means. What Gandhi did was amazing, but all thing considered it wad the right time and place. The English occupation of India was Scrutinized by their trading partners the world over. Gandhi didn't accomplish his goals alone. He had the whole world looking at him. Have you ever seen some one starving? It's violent. Just because you don't hurt those who choose to hurt you doesn't mean your not violent. In this case it means you hurt yourself.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 13, 2010)

I am on dial-up so I can't watch the video because it just takes too long to load via a 56K modem.  But, I didn't see anywhere in the text that the owner of the truck being towed was drinking.  It says that someone threw a bottle at the truck and the owner of the truck was verbally abusive, but it doesn't say that the owner had been drinking.

I think the bottom line here is that irresponsible gun ownership is a greater menace to the REAL freedom and liberty of Americans than the risk of being controlled by a tyrannical government.  People in your country also hear the stories about 16 year-olds carrying guns, and are afraid to go out in the evening.  People in certain neighborhoodd in your cities hear gunfire and even see murders being committed but won't report it to the police because they are afraid of retribution.  THAT, in my view, restricts the REAL EVERYDAY freedom and liberty of everyday Americans far more than any tyrannical government your guns are supposed to protect your society from.

Maybe it's because I live in Canada and the only news we hear out of the US is generally about tragedies and bad news.  It's the airplane syndrome.  If you watch enough TV, you'd come to the conclusion that every airplane flight ends in a crash or close call.  The uneventful flights where the plane lands safely go unreported.  

No, I don't take arguments personally.  I don't offend anyone nor do I get offended.  We have different points of view because we're seeing the same situation from different perspectives.  I just see much greater danger in that situation because those glimpses I've gotten have always resulted in a death or close call. (as in the case of the Houston tow truck driver)


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## TxBuilder (Feb 17, 2010)

America is pretty awesome but our media in no way represents us any longer. It has bridged into a new dimension as entertainment. It denies the core of America, which is genuinely good ,hard working people. We didn't get to our place in the world being a blood thirsty global menace.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree that most of the Americans I've ever met/seen seem to be ordinary hard working, intelligent and honest people.

(Ya just wouldn't guess that from watching Jerry Springer or listening to Howard Stern.)


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 17, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> I agree that most of the Americans I've ever met/seen seem to be ordinary hard working, intelligent and honest people.
> 
> (Ya just wouldn't guess that from watching TV.)



and we always thought everyone in Canada lived in an igloo, rode a reindeer to work and their best friend was a moose.


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## inspectorD (Feb 17, 2010)

De unoly Canadiens I ave ever seen eh...wear inda Movie FARGO eh.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 18, 2010)

Anyhow, I vote we let this thread sink into the quicksand below.  It's served it's purpose.


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## inspectorD (Feb 18, 2010)

Where is the video af "towing a car Canadien style"?

And we were having sooo much fun.


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## TxBuilder (Feb 18, 2010)

I was. It's cool Nestor I think what can be said has. Now it's just left to the inevitable jokes that come from serious conversations.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Feb 18, 2010)

No, it's not like I wanted to put an end the conversation.  I just thought that I had made my views known, as had the gun owners in here, and that talking any further about it wasn't necessary and risked becoming an argument (as any thread on any controversial topic could become).  So, that's why I suggested letting the thread sink before other people with much stronger views than mine got involved.

But, I've said my piece.  I'm against irresponsible gun ownership.  But, by the same token I'm  also against irresponsible people behaving irresponsibly in general.  Irresponsible people are what cause unwanted pregnancies.  Irresponsible people are what cause most single parent families.  Irresponsibility is at the root of people letting themselves become addicted to drugs or gambling or whatever and is what causes much of the crime in our countries.  Our continent would be so much better off if people matured more quickly, and reached a higher level of maturity when fully mature.  Maybe monkeying with genetics to cause that to happen isn't such a bad thing.


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## TxBuilder (Feb 19, 2010)

Till we have monkey teenagers then all bets are off.


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