# Ceramic Tile over Vinyl flooring



## Kitty (Nov 20, 2006)

We'll be updating our kitchen from vinyl flooring to ceramic tile.  Do we really need to pull up the vinyl flooring?  Can we just lay the tile over the top of the vinyl?

BTW - Great site!


----------



## glennjanie (Nov 20, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum Kitty;
I would not lay ceramic tile over vinyl for several reasons;
1. it won't stick and your tile will be comming up in several places
2. the vinyl is ever-so-lightly spongy which will break the grout lines
3. we don't know what the former owner covered up with the vinyl
4. stripping to the subfloor and starting back with cementious board will give 
    a lasting, proven backing for the tile.
5. If you do the whole thing by the numbers you will have a job you can be 
    proud of.
I'm sure I will think of some other reasons by tomorrow but, for now, you have enough bad news to deal with. Let us know how it turns out and post some picutres if possible.
Glenn


----------



## TileGuy (Nov 20, 2006)

Tiling over vinyl is a huge "no no".
If you use unmodified thinset under the CBU and use screws rather then nails... I doubt youll ever have a problem in this life time. If it were my house...Id pull it up. BUT, if it was asbestos I would leave it and CBU over it and still never have a worry.
Find out if its asbestos and if it is either have someone remove it for ya or lay your cement board over it and use screws.


----------



## Kitty (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks everyone!  

We built this house 15 years ago so I'm sure their isn't asbestos in the floor, and I know it's plywood underneath.  We're a huge believer in doing a job right the first time, so we'll rip up the vinyl.  I hadn't thought of laying the CBU over the vinyl...      That would definitely save a lot of time and mess.

We're picking out carpet for the adjoining rooms tonight, so we'll be able to make a final decision about the tile soon.


----------



## Bud Cline (Nov 21, 2006)

For the benefit of Kitty (hope she returns) and the well being of her tile project and with the indulgence of the tile pros that are here Please let me offer this information on this subject:

http://www.thefloorpro.com/articles/tile_over_vinyl_flooring.php


----------



## Kitty (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks Bud!  I guess we'll be ripping up the vinyl for sure.  

Ugh.  This job is gonna suck.


----------



## Bud Cline (Nov 22, 2006)

The vinyl itself isn't always necessarily the main problem.  It's the 1/4" underlayment under the vinyl that is the real troublemaker. Check it out.


----------



## TileGuy (Nov 22, 2006)

The majority of vinyl tear outs that Ive done turned out to be simple. I always dread doing them because of the possible headache it can be but it usually goes well. Good luck and lets us know how it goes.


----------



## Kitty (Nov 25, 2006)

We pulled up the carpet that butts up against the vinyl flooring and confirmed there is a 1/4" hardboard underneath.  There isn't plywood underneath that, I guess it's the "large chunk" particle board.

Are you saying we need to rip up the 1/4" hardboard?  Is that particle board stuff ok, or do we have to replace that too?


----------



## TileGuy (Nov 25, 2006)

Kitty said:


> We pulled up the carpet that butts up against the vinyl flooring and confirmed there is a 1/4" hardboard underneath.  There isn't plywood underneath that, I guess it's the "large chunk" particle board.
> 
> Are you saying we need to rip up the 1/4" hardboard?  Is that particle board stuff ok, or do we have to replace that too?




Replace it      Post a pic if you can

1/4 inch sub isnt enough for tile, 3/4 is the right way to go about it.


----------



## Kitty (Nov 26, 2006)

OK, we'll rip up that 1/4" hardboard.  

That particle board that's underneath is 3/4".  Is that ok?  Should we lay something over the top of the 3/4" particle board?

I'll post up pics tomorrow.

BTW - you guys ROCK!  I'm so appreciative of the help!


----------



## TileGuy (Nov 26, 2006)

yup, use unmodified thinset with a small v notch trowel, then screw it down 5 rows of screws 8 inches apart per 3x5 board. Use fiberglass joint tape with thinset just like spackeling drywall seams. Next step is tile !


----------



## Kitty (Nov 26, 2006)

Thanks TileGuy.  We'll do that.  

Pics to follow shortly...

My tile project will be on hold for a little bit as I seemed to have strained my back and now have muscle spasms.  This is some kind of pain! 

We're also putting down hardwood flooring and replacing the carpet.  We're converting our formal dining room into an office, ripping up the carpet and replacing it with hardwood (no laminate).  My husband is getting that floor prepped right now.


----------



## glennjanie (Nov 26, 2006)

Hello Kitty:
It sounds like you and your husband are very busy with your home. We look forward to the pictures.
Glenn


----------



## Kitty (Dec 26, 2006)

Update:
Vinyl flooring and subfloor are ripped up and gone.  We're down to 5/8" plywood; put down underlayment and have finished the tiling in the laundry room!

The kitchen is done, and will be ready to seal the grout tomorrow, which means I'll have appliances again!

The last of the tiling is being done in the foyer.  We're doing that room on the diagonal so there are lots of cuts.

I've got photos to post up but they need to be resized because the files are too big.

I just wanted to give y'all an update!  You guys rock!


----------



## TileGuy (Dec 27, 2006)

Kitty said:


> Update:
> I've got photos to post up but they need to be resized because the files are too big.
> 
> I just wanted to give y'all an update!  You guys rock!




Cant wait to see em !


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

Before:  Kitchen/Eating area with vinyl flooring removed


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

Thinset spread, tile laid out with 1/4" spacers....dry, dry, dry


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

The drill that gave its life while mixing thinset.  My hubby was real upset to have to buy a new Dewalt


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

Could it be.....done?
YEAH!  Just have the foyer, bathroom and closet to go!


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

Working on the foyer...with the finished kitchen/eating area in the background.  Finished laundry room is on the right.


----------



## Kitty (Dec 28, 2006)

Stove, dishwasher, center island, table & chairs have now been put back in the kitchen.  Just waiting on the refrigerator!  It's starting to feel like home again.  

More photos to come...after the tile is done we move on to hardwood flooring!


----------



## TileGuy (Dec 29, 2006)

Lookin good !!!!!!!!!

thx for the pics


Is that detra I see?


----------



## Kitty (Dec 29, 2006)

Detra ... are you referring to the orange stuff?


----------



## Bud Cline (Dec 29, 2006)

Yes he is referring to the orange stuff - DITRA.

Lookin' Good Kitty.


----------



## Kitty (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes!  We used Ditra.  It was a little more expensive than cement board, but it was soooo much easier to work with! By the time we factored in our sweat and possible doctor co-pays, we decided to go with this stuff.

It's been very easy to work with and has done it's job.  Without it, the tile would have been an easy 1/2" higher than the rest of the surrounding flooring.

Tile is a lot of work, but definitely worth the outcome.  We plan to finish laying it out today so we can finish grouting tomorrow.


----------



## Kitty (Dec 30, 2006)

The kitchen heat vent is a problem.  We can grout right up to it, but then that eliminates any way of removing it easily.  We cant cut out an opening above it and raise it as it's already as high as it can go.  The only thing we can think of is to look for a smaller vent register, or cut one to fit.

Anyone ran into this before?


----------



## Bud Cline (Jan 4, 2007)

I can't really see the vent style but don't trap it in there please.

You can take it to a welding shop or machine shop and have it cut down maybe.  They may have to cut both the top and bottom flange so as to save the mechanism but I'm sure it can be done successfully.


----------



## glennjanie (Jan 5, 2007)

Hey Kitty, that looks like a 4" X 12" standard floor register. There is a 2" X 12"  toe space register available which works great for kitchens. I think it would solve your problem.
Glenn


----------



## Kitty (Jan 9, 2007)

We decided to put grout in front of it.  We've never had to remove it in the 16 years we've lived in the house so probably won't have to take it out.  If we have to, we can remove the grout and it will come right out.


----------

