# Oak floor buckling



## pstew96 (Dec 2, 2011)

I got a toe kick saw from Harbor Freight, then I cut one wall about 3/8 because it was flush up against it, does anyone think I also need to cut a groove between the three rooms to create a 3/8 expansion area under the door thresholds?  What do I cover it with after I cut it? I saw some putty at HD or brass metal strips.  Also, how do I get the buckeled areas to relax back down?


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## oldognewtrick (Dec 2, 2011)

pstew96 said:


> I got a toe kick saw from Harbor Freight, then I cut one wall about 3/8 because it was flush up against it, does anyone think I also need to cut a groove between the three rooms to create a 3/8 expansion area under the door thresholds?  What do I cover it with after I cut it? I saw some putty at HD or brass metal strips.  Also, how do I get the buckeled areas to relax back down?



What type of flooring is it? Is it free floating or nailed down?


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## Rusty (Dec 2, 2011)

Is it hardwood, engineered or laminate?


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## pstew96 (Dec 5, 2011)

So its oak flooring thats been squeezed into three rooms with no space for expansion and where a certain someone left a dog bowel of water in two places is buckling.  I bought a toe kick saw and started cutting between the wall and floor in some places, but now how do I get the floor to utilize the space I just created?  The water was about 3 months ago and I have been running a de-humidifyer since and getting little water collected.  I cannot tell whether its nailed or glued as I fear I will really make a mess if I pull up a plank or two.  Maybe I can put something really heavey on the bulge to get it down?


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## joecaption (Dec 5, 2011)

As we have suggested many times, not going to happen, now that the glue bond is broken or the nails have been pulled there's nothing to hold it down.
If there's traped moisture under the floor mold is going to if it has not already set in.


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## pstew96 (Dec 6, 2011)

what if I use a concrete nail gun just to push the floor down now that I have created space between the wall and floor, or, drill a hole and inject glue then nail it down?  I would like to avoid a big take it apart production.


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## joecaption (Dec 7, 2011)

Ha it's your floor do what you want to, then get back to use and let us know you have given up and are ready to fix it right.


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## EZHangDoor (Dec 7, 2011)

pstew96 said:


> what if I use a concrete nail gun just to push the floor down now that I have created space between the wall and floor, or, drill a hole and inject glue then nail it down?  I would like to avoid a big take it apart production.



Once it's swelled, it's highly unlikely to shrink back. The boards push apart once they expand, the gaps are permanent. If they buckle or curl they won't lay flat again either.


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## pstew96 (Dec 7, 2011)

So, I took my circular saw and tore down the middle of one plank, what I found was, no moisture and that pink paper with particle board base with staple type nails in it from the board I just removed.  My question is, is it possible to force down the twisted oak planks with screws or nails before I replace the one I chopped out?  Also, as it seems like a very tight install, I have in some places I used a toe-kick-saw to releive the presure, but certain spots are difficult to access so I ignored those, rooms are a little irregular. Also, do I attempt to releive presure at the door thresholds as they go accross room to room without a break(as there are small bulges in all the rooms).


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## isola96 (Dec 7, 2011)

This is part 2 from prior thread posted?!?...
Tongue and grove floor bucking up....
The piece(s)s need to be changed out or the section since the ends were cut with no space the dog water dish combination of the 2 things here created this problem.


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## pstew96 (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok, so the now twisted planks need replacing (or can I just nail it down with finishing nails?)and I have created a space between the wall and flooring, there is just one thing, I cannot in some places create an expansion space  because there is either a to narrow area or a heating basebord or sliding glass door, is this ok to ignore?  Also, should I cut an 1/8 or 1/4 space at the threshold between rooms to create expansion space as well? I know if I do I could probably find a peice of moulding to cover it.


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## isola96 (Dec 8, 2011)

pstew96 said:
			
		

> Ok, so the now twisted planks need replacing (or can I just nail it down with finishing nails?)and I have created a space between the wall and flooring, there is just one thing, I cannot in some places create an expansion space  because there is either a to narrow area or a heating basebord or sliding glass door, is this ok to ignore?  Also, should I cut an 1/8 or 1/4 space at the threshold between rooms to create expansion space as well? I know if I do I could probably find a peice of moulding to cover it.



A case that would be quicker resolved if you can post up some photos
The pieces need to be changed out tacking them down wont do it.
The area that will hit the wall needs to be cut to have the space enough for the trim to hide gaps.
If the floor was installed and hitting the above thing you mentioned that was also not done correctly if you can't get to them there really isn't much you can do about it.
The floor should of been installed through out the rooms with no transition so no do not cut between rooms

Post pics!!!!


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## pstew96 (Dec 16, 2011)

I hope these pictures help, Im hoping the bulge is not so bad that I can't simply use some nails to flatten the floor, I'll wait for your opinions. thanks!


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## nealtw (Dec 16, 2011)

Yup! that is one ugly mess. Wood dosn't get longer or shorter, it gets wider and fatter. So the gap at the sides of the room are most important and if you are not lucky enough to have the ends of boards poking under the radiator , cutting a gap in the threshold may be required, but no one wants to suggest that. 
 The cupped board have absorbed moisture from below and have to dry the same way and will likely never lay flat again.
  If you can get repacement boards, get them and leave them in the house for a week before doing anything. After they have been in the house, if you are changing three boards measure the distance between the good boards that will be left and measure the width of three new boards and see how they compare.


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## joecaption (Dec 17, 2011)

In the weeks you have been talking and talking about this it alll could have been removed and replaced with engineered hardwood 5 times.
Stop talking about pounding it down and nailing it, if your going to do it go ahead and try it and get it over with. Once it does not work do as we all have suggested over and over and remove and replace.
My guess is no one told you how to remove that section of flooring without damaging the other pieces on the sides of it. Now you broken off the tongue and gouged up the flooring anyway.


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## isola96 (Dec 17, 2011)

joecaption said:
			
		

> In the weeks you have been talking and talking about this it alll could have been removed and replaced with engineered hardwood 5 times.
> Stop talking about pounding it down and nailing it, if your going to do it go ahead and try it and get it over with. Once it does not work do as we all have suggested over and over and remove and replace.
> My guess is no one told you how to remove that section of flooring without damaging the other pieces on the sides of it. Now you broken off the tongue and gouged up the flooring anyway.



True if your really hesitant about doing in then hire some one you will have to take up a few pieces to get to the really bad one this is for ant type of t&g floor.


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## isola96 (Dec 17, 2011)

Your just not replacing 1 or 2 planks you will need to replace like 5 the least.


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## pstew96 (Apr 17, 2012)

So, after replacing almost a whole bundle of planks, and polyurathaning it, the floor is still raised where the doors touch it, its better, but I'm worried that with summer humidity and some rain storms I may be back to where I started.


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## nealtw (Apr 17, 2012)

How long has this floor been in the house.


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## pstew96 (Apr 18, 2012)

Has been down for at least two years, I think they installed it shortly before I bought the place.


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## nealtw (Apr 18, 2012)

Is the sub floor nailed to concrete slab, no basement, no crawlspace?


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## pstew96 (Apr 19, 2012)

Yes, particle board is nailed to concrete and it had a slight bulge which transfered to the oak I beleive. I'm hoping that water from the surface is what found its way down into the subfloor and not a wicking from below.


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## nealtw (Apr 19, 2012)

If you ever watch Holmes on Homes, he had one that had a wood floor over concrete that had failed twice. It had vapour barrier and all so they spent a bit of time trying to find water coming from where ever and ended up tileing.


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## pstew96 (Apr 20, 2012)

Thats what I fear I will have to do, but I'm going to wait and see what happens. The other thing is, I'm renting out the space and I hope it doesn't become an issue while I'm renting it.


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## nealtw (Apr 20, 2012)

The biggest problem you have is you don't know the condition of the concrete below.


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## pstew96 (Apr 23, 2012)

Well with all the rain we just had, I probably will see what happens next, tile would have been so preferable which is probably what I will end up with.


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## joecaption (Apr 23, 2012)

Partical board never ever should have been used as a subfloor. It will wick up moisture like a sponge, swell up and turn to oatmeal.
Your looking at removing everything down to the slab and starting over for flooring to have a chance, including tile.
Real hard wood over a slab is never a good idea. Engineered floor would have been a better choise if someone wanted real wood looking floors.


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## EZHangDoor (Apr 24, 2012)

joecaption said:


> Partical board never ever should have been used as a subfloor. It will wick up moisture like a sponge, swell up and turn to oatmeal.
> Your looking at removing everything down to the slab and starting over for flooring to have a chance, including tile.
> Real hard wood over a slab is never a good idea. Engineered floor would have been a better choise if someone wanted real wood looking floors.



I agree, real wood is not a good idea below grade over concrete.


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## pstew96 (Apr 24, 2012)

The slab that its on is not below grade, its a kind of situated on a rocky outcropping, in soil and rock but nothing dug in the dirt, its kinda propped up on maybe 1 to 2 layers of cinder block in front and  becoming slab like going towards the back, probably to level it.  I wonder, does partical board dry out?


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## joecaption (Apr 24, 2012)

If it was removed and left outside it would dry out.
But it would be use less once it does.


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## nealtw (Apr 24, 2012)

What you have is slab on grade. In the front the footing is as deep as required to below the deepest frost for your area and the back the foot is at least below the floor by 8". After that work was done the foundation was filled with sand or some other fill. As the whole foundation is below the living space it is not waterproofed and you should have drainage around at or below floor level. If you have a hill behind you, there is nothing stoping water from traveling under the footing and getting into the fill under the floor. Water will wick thru concrete from cold to warm and you have a wet floor. I don't think wood of any kind should be tried here now that you know there is a problem with water.


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## pstew96 (Apr 25, 2012)

I guess I will have to see what happens, if the floor gets to bad the tenant will have to be inconvenienced while I get it tiled, or the tenant could live with it until he moves out at which time I will tile it. Hopefully it will not get any worse!  Thanks for your input!


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