# Electric Water Heater Not Working - Any Help is Appreciated



## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Trying to use a multimeter to test why my electric water heater isn't working.  It's just not producing any hot water. I think I am either doing something wrong with my multimeter or I need a new multimeter. I took photos of the multimeter and how I have it setup. The black lead in the COM port and the red lead in the V..mA port. The 10ADC port has nothing plugged into it. I have set the dial to 750ACV which I think is what I need to test 240 volts on a household appliance since I only have an option for 200 and 750 in the ACV section as you can see from the photos. 

I first put the multimeter into a normal 120 volt electrical outlet to test it and got about 121 volts or something. So I thought the multimeter was working fine. Then I went and tested the water heater using this guide:

http://www.water-heater-repair-guide...hermostat.html

I posted pictures of my thermostats and everything at various points during my testing, but basically the tests on the upper thermostats and elements were fluctuating between -1 and 1 Volts for some reason. The upper thermostat is supposed to read 240 volts, so I was like excited that I thought I found the problem.

Then I tested the lower element and got a fluctuating reading between -1 and 1 Volts again. Then I tested the lower thermostat and got the correct reading of 120 volts for all the tests on the lower thermostats (supposed to read 120 volts according to the guide). 

I then wanted to test if maybe I hadnt set my multimeter up correctly or was doing something wrong, so I went to my dryer outlet that is working at 240 volts I believe, plugged the multimeter in, and could not get a reading really. Sometimes I would get -1 and most of the time it was just stuck at 0 volts. That dryer outlet works though. I re-tested the multimeter again in a normal 120 volt outlet and got the correct 120 volt reading. 

What am I doing wrong with the multimeter? Or why am I only getting proper readings on 120 volt things, and getting improper readings on the 240 volt things. I even changed the battery on it. If the multimeter is the issue, then I will go and buy another one. I just assumed it was working fine because it was giving correct readings on 120v outlets. That's kind of weird to me.

Also you will notice my reset button on my water heater is popped out, but I cannot push it in. I have pressed it really hard and it wont stay in when pressed. It may be normal for this model, but thought I should mention that since I saw photos of water heaters that seemed to have the button flush and not popped out. 

Thanks again for any help.  Taking cold showers is not the most fun thing to do, hahaha.  I can't wait to get my water heater working again


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## Snoonyb (Aug 1, 2016)

Did you verify that the breaker was not tripped?


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## joecaption (Aug 1, 2016)

http://www.water-heater-repair-guide.com/waterheaterelementtesting.html


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## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Thanks for the responses.  Yes, the breaker is not tripped.   And I had actually already used the guide that joecaption has linked for element testing. But the results were a bit weird so I moved on to testing everything with the power on. 

My questions are more about the reason why I'm not able to get 240 volts to show on my multimeter, but am able to get 120volts to show?  Meaning even if I put my multimeter into a 240volt outlet, it won't show 240 volts.  It shows like -1 or 0 volts or something.  But the multimeter works fine for 120 volt outlets.  It will display like 121 volts.  The multimeter says it can handle 750ACV so it should work fine on 240 volt outlets.  Once I figure that out, I will move on to trying to more accurately diagnose the water heater issue.  

So I guess my main question is am I doing something wrong with the mulitimeter that it's not reading working 240 volt outlets, but it is reading 120 volt outlets?  

Thanks for any advice


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## Snoonyb (Aug 1, 2016)

In a single phase system, when you are attempting to read 240V, and are just reading 0v, you are reading the same 120V leg.

The meter appears to be set up correctly, so try reading from the 240V power source, at the water heater, either across them or individually to ground.

The battery has nothing to do with voltage testing and is controlled by the on/off switch in the resistance mode.


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## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Okay thanks for that response, since my last post I ran to the hardware store and bought another multimeter that was similar to mine, just a different color, in case mine was acting up, and it is also doing the same thing.  

Your comment about me possibly reading the same leg, and thus, getting the 0V reading is something I did not know.  I went back to the a dryer outlet I have in the house, and tried running the tests again, and I am still getting 0V.  On the upper left of the multimeter it will say "HV" and sometimes a line will appear under the HV as if to underline it or reference a negative sign for the voltage reading.  But it still reads 0v.

I'm not sure what the issue is.  I put one lead into one hole in the dryer outlet, I put the other lead into the opposite hole, still get 0v.  I then tried using neutral as you said, and same thing happens.  And this dryer outlet is working fine, since my dryer works when plugged in. 

I don't see an outlet for my water heater to try, but I did try putting in the leads into the screw caps for the wires on the top of the water heater tank, and same thing, 0V.

I'm stumped.  Maybe the brand of multimeters I'm buying are not working as advertised?  Maybe I need to try a different brand?


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## Snoonyb (Aug 1, 2016)

On an old 3 prong dryer;

Ok, at your dryer the slanted notches are each leg of the 240V, and the straight or vertical is the ground,so placing the meter leads in the slanted notches should read 240V.

You may need to wiggle the meter leads slightly to make contact.

Do you have an easily accessible electric service and are you familiar working behind a dead front panel?

It is sounding more and more like you may have a bad circuit breaker.


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## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Yeah, I'll even post a pic of it and show you what I am doing.  It's so weird.  Give me one sec


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## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Okay, I normally use two hands and wiggle each lead around, but for the sake of the photo I was just trying to show what I was doing so I used one hand only and the other hand to take the photo.  And I still get 0 v.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 1, 2016)

Then read each leg to ground and not just the ground notch, but also to a screw on the cover.

The HV is just the meter telling you that the voltage present is above a factory preset level.

In you 1st series of photos, #5 shows the flex for the HW/H either disappearing behind or into a box.

Is this so?


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## amodoko (Aug 1, 2016)

Okay, I just did that and no matter what I do it still gives me 0v.  And that dryer outlet works too, I'm actually drying some laundry right now after I just did the tests you mentioned. I've attached pictures to show you what I did, and all of them showed 0v.  

When you say that the HV indicator on the multimeter means that the voltage present is above a factory preset level, do you mean that the voltage setting of 750VAC (that I have it set to in the pictures) goes a bit above what the meter can actually read?  Like the meter may only be able to read 700 volts even though it's set to a max voltage of 750?  It will say HV even if I don't have the leads touching anything also.  

Do you think I need a better multimeter to get a correct reading of 240 volts?  Or do you possibly know why I keep getting 0 volts for 240 volt measurements on a working dryer outlet?  It's weird since it properly reads 120 volts for normal outlets, etc.

To answer your question, yes, the flex disappears behind into the drywall in that photo you mention.  I will post some more pictures of it for you to see.  

Thanks for your help so far, not sure what is going on with both the water heater and both of my multimeters.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 1, 2016)

Ok. It's uncommon but may be a configuration of the meter, so change the setting back to the 200V range, trying the individual legs and then the 240V.

You won't burn the meter out, just over range limit it.

The meter will have a preset LV range and when the voltage present is above that the HV will indicate.

In photo #5 of the most recent shows a cover with 2 screws, which is the "J" box for the heater. The 240V will distribute from there, so before you venture in, turn the breaker off.


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## kok328 (Aug 2, 2016)

No neutral on a 240v circuit. 
Test at the breaker. Between hits and hits to neutral or ground. 
Should get 240,120,120. 
If not you have a bad breaker. Not uncommon on a water heater circuit.


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## amodoko (Aug 2, 2016)

Okay, I finally got somewhere, thanks for the replies guys.  The reason I could not get the 240v reading from the dryer outlet is because those leads are just not long enough because those plastic handles prevent them from going deepn enough into the outlet.  This multimeter is pretty cheap, so I just pulled the leads a bit and they separated from the plastic handles so they were just wires with metal prongs on the ends. I could then stick those in and I could get readings around 240 volts finally.  So the multimeter setup is correct, it was just those leads were not long enough.

If you look at my original post, the very first one that started this entire thread, I'm assuming my upper thermostat is just bad based on those test results I reported.  I could get 120 volt readings on the lower thermostat, but could not get any voltage readings for the upper thermostat.  So I think I just need a new upper thermostat.  I'm assuming the breaker is okay since I am able to get 120 volt readings from the lower thermostat, that means the water heater is receiving power I would think.  

I think the upper thermostat just needs to be replaced.  I'll pull it off and see the model number of that thermostat and order one then.  Actually, I think I am going to just go to Menard's tomorrow and try to see if this one will work: 

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...4452245333-c-8689.htm?tid=-116731187154853498

Does my assessment of the problem sound correct?  That it looks to be an issue with the upper thermostat?


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## Snoonyb (Aug 2, 2016)

Interesting, the insulators on my meters retract.

The thermostat may also be available locally, from a supplier or even ACE Hdw.


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## jeffmattero76 (Aug 3, 2016)

Have you checked both elements for continuity?


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## CallMeVilla (Aug 3, 2016)

Depending on the setup, some electric hot water heaters have a hard fuse manual disconnect between the main breaker and the heater.  You will read 220VAC at the main but nothing at the heater because the fuse has failed in between.  Look for this service disconnect, turn off breakers at main and the disconnect, remove old fuse with plastic pliers, replace new fuse, turn on disconnect first then main breakers.

You can test for 220VAC at the top of the disconnect before removing the fuse.  Turn off the disconnect first then test where leads from the main come in the box.  If you get good current it is the fuse!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-General...111016?hash=item3f67b8e868:g:g2cAAOSwXeJXfY0W


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## beachguy005 (Aug 3, 2016)

You need to check if you actually have 240 volts to the heater.  You'll have two 120v legs but if you're getting 120 volts to only one stat it may be the power and not the stat.
Did you check if you have 240v in?  Either check at the top of the heater where power comes into it or check the load side of the breaker at the panel and make sure both breakers are each supplying 120v.


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## nealtw (Aug 3, 2016)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlyStHM9Nr0[/ame]


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## amodoko (Aug 3, 2016)

Okay, I did replace the upper thermostat today and unfortunately, that did not fix the problem. I'm a bit confused by this. I am able to get 120 volts on the lower thermostat, which would mean I would think that my water heater is getting power and there is no need to mess with testing anything at the breaker. I am not able to get 240 volt readings at the upper thermostat so I would assume that would mean my upper thermostat is bad. I had done ohms readings on both the upper and lower elements and got 17.3 ohms so I would assume the elements are fine. What is going on? 

I opened up the J-box and noticed a lot of rust in there around the wires. I did try to test the wires in there for 240 volts and could not get a reading.  Maybe something is messed up in there? But still, if something is messed up in there, I would think the lower thermostat would not read 120 volts, correct?  Or as beachguy mentioned above, maybe only one wire is working?  Not really sure since I don't understand electrical stuff at all.  But at least we're getting somewhere now since I am not able to get 240 volts at the two wire nuts in the J box on top of the water heater.

So what do you guys think I should test or do next?


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## nealtw (Aug 3, 2016)

I think you have go step by step thru all the tests in the video.

Understanding the power is easy enough. Power comes in, in two legs, each supply 120 volts when they have a white or neutral wire or if they go to ground.
When you have both the red and black together, that should give you 240. 
If you have other equipment, stove or dryer working  well on 240, then you know both supplies are good from the road.


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## beachguy005 (Aug 3, 2016)

You need to understand that you have to have 240 volts coming into the heater at the j-box.  Each stat works with 120v.  You need to either stick the meter leads into the wirenuts in the j-box, or take the wirenuts off and check that you have 240 volts at the heater.  Read across both connections for 240 volts or each one individually to ground for 120v each. If you're only getting 120v out of one leg and 0 from the other then you can just check at the load side of the breaker and ground in the panel as it might be a bad breaker.  
Obviously you'll be doing it with the power on so be careful.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, thanks for the help.  I went ahead and took off the cover to the j-box and saw that it was really rusty in there.  I've attached photos for you to see.  I then stuck the leads into each wire nut and was unable to get any reading.  I then took off the wire nuts, tested across the wires, and most of the time I got a reading that would fluctuate between -1 and 1, but sometimes I would get readings that would fluctuate between 200 and 450 volts, very weird.  

So then I decided to test each wire individually by putting one lead on one wire, and then the other lead on the metal of the water heater for ground.  On wire 1 (as you can see from the photos), I got 0 volts.  On wire 2 I got 123 volts (fluctuated a bit), on wire 3 I got 40 volts (would fluctuate between 20 and 45 volts), on wire 4 I got 0 volts. 

This is my first time ever doing anything, and I mean anything, related to electrical stuff so bear with me.  But is my next step to redo the wiring in the j-box due to the rust?  Or should I start testing stuff at the breaker?  Or something else?  

Thanks again


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

Turn off the breakers and clean the ends of the wire with steel wool or something and the test again. the two wires coming in from that cable should give you 240 volts.
The wires should have been twisted together with pliers before the wire nuts were installed so you may have just had a bad connection.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, just cleaned off the ends with steel wool and re-tested.  I kind of twisted the black wires together at their ends, and the red wires the same, then tested across them... and got basically -1 to 1 volts.  I then separated them, and tested each wire by placing one lead on the wire and one lead on the metal part of the tank, and basically got 0 volts for each wire except wire 2 (from the photos in the previous post you can see what wire 2 was).  Wire 2 still gives 120 volts, but wire 3 no longer gives the 40 volts it was giving before.  Weird.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

So if you never got 240, you have to check the breaker at the panel. At the screws where the wires hook in you should get 240 between the two screws.

Not sure but I think the 40 was from the same 120 you found but it was going thru the heating element. But that is just a guess.


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

You should have 3 wires coming out of the flex and into the j-box.  2 hot wires, probably a white and a black and also a ground wire. That's where you need to check for voltage, separated from the leads feeding the tank stats.  Each should read 120v to ground and measuring between the white and black should give you 240v.
If you're only getting 120v from 1 wire out of the flex then you need to check at your 2 pole breaker in the panel that feeds your heater.  You may find that one side of the breaker doesn't work.
Just looking at the mess of rust your connections I'm a bit surprised that just cleaning them wasn't the issue.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 4, 2016)

Make sure the breaker is off.

With the "J" box open you should be able to lift the wirenut connections above the heater.

Label the wires, if they are not already distinctive. There should be a pair of reds, blacks, or whites and green. Masking tape, numbered, on two pair should be fine.

Remove the wire nuts and separate the conductors, turn the breaker on and test between the other conductors and ground. Two of them should read 120V and if they do not, you have a faulty breaker. 

If two do, then between them you should read 240V.

If not , post a picture of your electric service panel, before you attempt to enter.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

(Some of my photos are posting sideways, I'm not sure why, but hope you guys can make things out)

Hey guys, thanks again for your replies.  I am finally getting somewhere I think.  I took off the panel at my breaker, I was wearing Salisbury elecrtrical gloves rated at 500 volts for added protection since I'm new to this.  Anyways, from the pictures you can see my panel. I don't believe it has a main panel switch, or at least I don't see one here.

I did some tests on the panel.  I first tested across the two nuts on the dryer's breaker (a breaker I know is working) and could get like 245 volts or something (which is correct).  I then did the same test across the water heater's nuts, and was getting like 149 volts.  I then tested the nut with the black wire on the breaker for the water heater across it and the neutral bar on the far right of the panel, and got like 120 volts.  I then tested the nut with the white wire on the breaker for the water heater across it and the neutral bar on the far right of the panel, and got like 10 volts or something.  

So it looks like I have an issue with the breaker.  My first concern is, do I have to work on this without being able to shut off power?  I don't see a breaker panel switch for the whole panel.  If so, I will have to wear my 500 volt rated electrical gloves the whole time.  

Another issue I realized is when I remove the wires from the actual water heater breaker, and then test across them (see last photos), I also get 0 volts. If I then test each wire to the neutral bar, I also get 0 volts.  If I put the wires back in the breaker, I can get 120 volts from the black wire to the neutral bar.  So I'm worried, if I can't get 240 volts across the wires themselves when they are taken out of the breaker, does that mean I have another power issue besides the breaker?  

My next question is, do I just buy a new breaker and pop it in?  Or is there something else I should do?  Thanks, I'm finally getting somewhere now with this due to your guys' help.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

That is a sub panel, look at the main panel for a set of breakers for this panel.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

The only other panel in my place is a panel for the telephone.  I live in condominiums and we are attached to several other uinits.  So maybe my unit does not have a main panel?  I can't find a panel anywhere else in my place besides the panel for the telephone.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

There will be a main feed coming into the building somewhere, when you find that you will find a breaker or switch for your unit.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, I walked around my building, I think I found the only things that looked like they could be related to that.  I've attached photos of them.  Do any of these look like they could be what you are talking about?

Also, if I'm careful, and wear electrical gloves, shouldn't I be able to be okay without having to shut off all power to my unit?


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

You can change the breaker with the power still on.  You won't get any voltage on the wires at the breaker because the power comes out of the breaker to the wires.  You should also turn the breaker on and off to make sure one pole of the breaker is not tripped.
If you're going to change the breaker yourself...make sure you use the same brand, style and amperage of the existing....make sure the new breaker is off and you've securely attached the wires to it before you install it.  To remove the breaker it just pivots out from the center and then unclips from the tab that's right under the wire lugs and connects to the buss with slots on the other side of the breaker.
To install it, just clip it into the tab and push the breaker in until it's flush with the other breakers.
Make sure your heater is re-wired before you turn the power at the breaker back on.


The black covers near the meters are your mains but you'll need to figure which is yours.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, thanks beachguy.  But one concern before I change the breaker is this:

I realized when I remove the wires from the actual water heater breaker, and then test across the wires themselves, I also get 0 volts. If I then test each wire to the neutral bar, I also get 0 volts. If I put the wires back in the breaker, I can get 120 volts from the black wire to the neutral bar. So I'm worried, if I can't get 240 volts across the wires themselves when they are taken out of the breaker, does that mean I have another power issue besides the breaker?

I think you may have answered that question in your previous post though, that power is coming into the breakers and then into the wires, so the wires themselves shouldn't be showing any voltage unless plugged into the breaker with the breaker switched on, but I could be wrong.


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

Once you take the wires out of the breaker you'll never get voltage to them.  The power comes out of the breaker and to the wire not the other way around.  With the breaker in and turned on did you measure between the two lugs on the breaker?  Did you check each lug individually between the lug and ground?


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay that makes sense then, then it is most likely a bad breaker.  To answer your question, with the breaker in and turned on, when I measure between the two screws (or lugs or whatever they are called) that are on the water heater breaker, I get like 149 volts.  When I touch each screw to the bar off to the far right that has white wires coming out of it, I get 120 volts for the one lug that has the black wire going into it, and I get 0 to 10 volts for the lug with the white wire.


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

Yes...bad breaker.  As I noted, you want an exact replacement.  There should be a brand and part on the breaker.

They're called screw lugs...


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, I'll remove it right now and see if I can find an exact replacement locally.  Hope I don't have to order it online as I want to have it fixed as soon as possible and don't want to wait for it in the mail.  I miss my hot showers lol.    Thanks so much for your help thus far, much appreciated.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 4, 2016)

Shut the breaker off.

Remove the two conductors from the breaker and lift the breaker out by the switch and you will notice that the breaker also hooks or is captured in the panel, at the conductor end.

Insert the new breaker as a reverse action to removal.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Okay, thanks guys.  I decided to take some photos for your guys' viewing pleasure. It was definitely an issue around here.  Look at the breaker, it is burned up on the side that I could not get a reading out of.  There is a bit of burn marks and dust, that I just blew off a bit inside the panel where the breaker was.  I'm not going to touch or attempt to clean that without the panel being turned off.  I just blew it off a bit with some air, and now I'm just going to replace the breaker.  

Also, I looked online, and could not find the exact breaker.   This breaker is very old.  Made by a company called Crouse Hinds.  Apparently, that is now a division of a company called Eaton.  Can't I just buy a 30 Amp double pole Eaton as a replacement?  Or does it need to be the exact same old one, because I don't think I can find a Crouse Hinds double pole 30 Amp breaker.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 4, 2016)

Any of the local hdw. vendors will carry replacements that will fit.

It's a really common breaker.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Perfect!  Going to go get one right now!


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

I would not just install a new breaker without first taking a good look at that buss stab where the breaker attached.  Looks pretty burned.  The other breaker across looks a bit suspect also.  That part of the panel is where the power comes from so if you get into it, keep that in mind.
Appears to be a Challenger Electric load center.


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

beachguy005 said:


> I would not just install a new breaker without first taking a good look at that buss stab where the breaker attached.  Looks pretty burned.  The other breaker across looks a bit suspect also.  That part of the panel is where the power comes from so if you get into it, keep that in mind.
> Appears to be a Challenger Electric load center.



Have you looked at the rust in the box on top of tank.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Hey guys, just saw your posts after I reinstalled the new breaker.  I went to the store, got an Eaton 30 amp double pole breaker and installed it.  I put everything back together, I removed the new thermostat and re-installed the old thermostat (no need to use the new one if the old one wasn't the problem) and the water heater now works!  

That's the good thing at least.  I was also a bit concerned about the kind of burned up part of the panel where the old breaker was before.  I went in there before installing the new breaker and just used compressed air to blow out any debris.  But I'm hoping that is okay and won't need attention.

The thing I am most concerned with is why the circuit breaker went bad.  I noticed my water heater, before it stopped working, had started to very softly whistle a bit for a few months or so.  After turning it back on today, I noticed it is whistling again, but very softly. Can it be that the old thermostat is not shutting off and is continually heating, causing it to whistle, and causing it to burn up the circuit breaker?  Or is it okay that the water heater is whistling?

UPDATE: The water heater stopped whistling


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

Did you make sure both t-stats were working.
the pressure relies valve is on the right and we can't see if that goes into a drain, if it is make sure it isn't spraying water.
I am not sure about a whistle from wiring, maybe some one else will.

So the next time something happens you will check the breakers first and if it gives you trouble you may have to change that part with the knives if you can get the part, if not it may be a new panel


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

BTW for some one with out experience, you did a great job.:thbup:


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## Snoonyb (Aug 4, 2016)

Good job so far.

There could be a problem with the heating element fed thru the thermostat connected to the white conductor or it may have been from a compromised connection in the wirenut.

And by the way, did you twist the conductors together prior to installing the wirenuts?

There is a wraparound meter used to measure current draw in individual conductors, which may tell you the story.

The easiest place is the subpanel.

Does the sound appear to be more prominent from a particular area of the heater, relative to the heating elements?


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

amodoko said:


> Okay, I walked around my building, I think I found the only things that looked like they could be related to that.  I've attached photos of them.  Do any of these look like they could be what you are talking about?
> 
> Also, if I'm careful, and wear electrical gloves, shouldn't I be able to be okay without having to shut off all power to my unit?



There is always a chance of a fire and you should know how to shut it down.
I believe the black cover beside each meter is hiding a switch.
If they are not labeled you can find yours by comparing the reading to your hydro bill.
As all the apartments will have the same set up, talk to your neighbors and save them some pain by shortening their learning curve.


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## amodoko (Aug 4, 2016)

Yep, I tested both thermostats and they seemed to check out fine.  Both were getting proper voltages.  Yeah, the relief valves doesn't seem to be spraying water at all. The whistling sound has stopped also.  Thanks for the kind words neal.

I did try twisting the wires together before using the wire nuts.  I don't think I did the best job since those wires are not easily bent, which is why I think the previous installer didn't bend them.  I tried to bend them, but don't know if it did any good.  

The whistling sound has stopped, but it sounded like it was coming more from the top of the water heater.  I'll have to check again when the sound comes back since it's gone now.  

Okay, thanks neal, I'll have to check the black covers then to see if there are switches in there.  

Thanks guys so much for your help thus far, I haven't had a hot shower in so long and can't wait to finally have one again!  You guys helped me out a ton!  Can't thank you guys enough


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## nealtw (Aug 4, 2016)

And now you have a job for the week end
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54HUTG4kKY[/ame]

While you are there wrap them with black electrical tape too and that will keep any moisture out, maybe.


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## beachguy005 (Aug 4, 2016)

With only 2 solid wires in the wirenut there really is no need to twist them. If you have more than 2, twisting them will help to prevent a wire from pulling out from the wirenut.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 5, 2016)

I twist all gauges from 18 to 10, because the cause of fires in residential, attributed to elec., are the result of loose connections.

As the video linked by neal shows, use lineman's pliers, and grey wirenuts.


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## amodoko (Aug 6, 2016)

Oh, that video makes it look easy.  Okay, sounds good, I will go ahead and do that then.  It was mentioned that I should use grey wirenuts.  What does the grey color designate?  Like, what's the difference between grey or yellow wire nuts?  

And just took a hot shower, finally, last night.  It was amazing!!!


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## jeffmattero76 (Aug 6, 2016)

Yellow are smaller than red. Not sure what grey are.


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## Snoonyb (Aug 6, 2016)

The different color of wirenuts are a simple way of determining the number of conductors which can comfortably be contained and there is an explanation on the pkg.

However, there are "grey" for 22ga wire as well as for 10ga. which you have.

Professionals develope a standard method that allows them to adapt without lugging and entire hardware store with them.


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## amodoko (Aug 12, 2016)

Ahhhh, I see. Okay, thanks for that info.  And once again, thank you all for your help.  I really needed it and I do appreciate it


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## mabloodhound (Aug 16, 2016)

Just an aside....no one mentioned the cause of that bad breaker.  In my limited experience, the burnt leg was caused by arcing.  That means the clips in the breaker were not tight on the spade lug in the panel.  This cause the current to 'jump' from the spade to the breaker clip and created heat hence causing the burning.
Hopefully the new breaker has a tight enough clip on the spade and this won't occur again.   BUT, after a month, pull that new breaker out and take a look at that clip and see if it is getting burnt/black residue from arcing.  If it is, then the panel spade lug needs replacing or a new panel.  If it looks good, then you're fine.  You do not have to disconnect the wires from the breaker to inspect it if there is enough slack in them.
Good job and now you know to always check the breaker first.
Dave Mason


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## amodoko (Aug 16, 2016)

Thank you for that information, I will definitely check it again soon then!


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