# Pour patio slab, footer and short wall at same time?



## Todd-Beaulieu (Apr 27, 2015)

Hello,

I'm planning to build a 14' x 14' patio in front of the barn using 4,000 PSI concrete. My plan is to include short (2 ft high?) x 10" or so walls around the perimeter and one or two steps (this is a ground level patio, but there might be a step up due to driveway slope).

I intend to build the form myself, have a local company deliver the concrete and I'll do the screeding. I'm a homeowner but I'm not afraid to try to do this myself. I'll be applying stone veneer to the wall and tile to the slab afterward. Sure, I can build the wall with blocks after the slab is dry, but can I do it all in one shot with a single pour?

Trying to figure out how much of the form I can pre-build and get filled in one delivery ($100 delivery fee for small orders). It seems that it's common to build and fill stairs in one operation, telling me the concrete is firm enough to fill the upper form without running down into the lower areas and overflowing. Therefore I assume I can pour the slab and a slightly deeper footing on the outer edges and the short wall all in one fill by building taller forms around the outer edge.

Does this sound right? I haven't yet found any write-ups on this concept.

Thank you!


----------



## slownsteady (Apr 27, 2015)

Slab and footer should be no problem, unless there needs to be a break between the two -  but I have my doubts about the short wall. One of the pros should be along shortly.

You may find some answers in this post: http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=18056


----------



## nealtw (Apr 27, 2015)

You can do the slab and the wall at the same time but the forms take a lot of bracing and you shpae the inside with damp sand so so you control how thick the wall is. You can do stairs at the same time, but it becomes very difficult to keep everything straight with bracing.


----------



## Todd-Beaulieu (Apr 28, 2015)

I just started drafting the idea in sketchup and realized that, despite the potential for a "pure" one piece pour that I could brag about it just makes sense to use blocks for the walls. I'm not good enough to take on something so complicated and going the traditional route would allow me to take my time and get it right the old fashioned way.

After some reading I believe I want the slab to be 6" thick. Do you think I should add rigid mesh to it, or would it be overkill and a waste of time/money for a simple patio?

Thank you.


----------



## bud16415 (Apr 28, 2015)

Steel reinforcement is not overkill at all given you live in the north. How good is the drainage in the area you plan on building this. How much top soil will you be removing and backfilling with gravel for drainage. If your short wall with stone facing wants to stay without cracks you will need to get down below the frost line. Where I live in northern Pa that is 4 foot. You will need a way to score the slab to provide lines for cracks to follow and the mesh or bars will tie it all together. 

All the problems with soil movement around here is what makes such a market for precast products, pavers and wall blocks. Those are much more DIY friendly products.


----------



## Todd-Beaulieu (Apr 28, 2015)

Darn it. Now you're making me question my plan.

I was thinking of floating the entire structure. And because I want to cover the slab with tile I couldn't figure out how crack lines would work into that.

Basically, I figured I'd EITHER make footings for the walls and use gravel/sand/pavers for the patio OR pour a slab over the gravel with walls on top of it. I was thinking that a slab would make it much easier and I could then use almost any outdoor tile I wanted, having a nice flat surface to adhere to.

Do you think I'd be better off going with block footing/walls around the perimeter and gravel/sand/paver for the floor?

Thanks again.


----------



## nealtw (Apr 28, 2015)

I think you have a good spot for allan block wall or stairs and patio stone.


----------



## bud16415 (Apr 28, 2015)

Last winter was the coldest I remember and lots of footings lifted around here. Lots of road damage also as the roads came up several inches and where drain culverts crossed didn&#8217;t and the roads are a mess. The same action works on everything. The places I had pavers lifted up and came right back down and show no signs of damage. The poured stuff that wasn&#8217;t below the frost line or wasn&#8217;t sectioned is all cracked up. 
You could form and pour the walls first if you don&#8217;t want the block look.


----------



## nealtw (Apr 28, 2015)

What ever is done, drainage is the most important part of the job.
http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=19027


----------

