# Termites coming from dirt between floor and wall



## Shakeyray

Hello all...have an old solid brick home.  I pulled the paneling in a room to prep it for a nursery to find a 1/4 inch gab and termites coming up the furring strips.  Odd thing is all the interior walls had pt sill plates but not the exterior.  I stuck a tool down the crack and it went down about 6 inches and smelled lik dirt.

My plan is to pull the bad wood, clean it up, pour boric acid and salt in the cracks, caulk with something(something for concrete cracks?) and put pt wood all around exterior sill sound good?


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## nealtw

So do you have a crawlspace and you have landscaping up high on the outside.


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## Shakeyray

No crawlspace....it's a concrete foundation but appears to have been done in multiple pours.  I'm guessing the footer followed by the floor.  And yes, the previous owner had a ton of  vegetation  EVERYWHERE that I have removed this past year.


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## joecaption

Time to call a real exterminating company, not some little spot DIY fix.
If you do call one and they suggest just using bait stations, tell them thanks but no thanks.


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## Shakeyray

How about for the floor?  It's solid masonry walls....should I replace just the bottom piece or all the wall strips as well with pressure treated?  And the floor is concrete...no crawlspace.


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## JoeD

Not sure the salt is a good idea.


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## bud16415

Not my cup of tea as I live in the north and we hardly ever hear about them nothing is built on grade here except garages and pole barns and they are all PT at the soil level. 

I do know a pro in your area is who you should talk to and don&#8217;t pick a name out of the phone book. If people still use phone books that is. Talk to the neighbors they will know who is good. 

It was a good thing you opened the wall now don&#8217;t move ahead until the problems below are solved. 

We do have a few Fla members and the deep south. They will be around with the local advice.


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## Snoonyb

By treating just this area, you are just spot treating. How about the rest of the dwelling.

PT is interesting, in that when you inspect a freshly cut piece you find that the agent does not penetrate all the way through, so any cut leaves untreated lumber exposed to infestation.


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## Shakeyray

Yeah....I read somewhere you can soak cotton balls in saltwater and use this to kill them....I'm only doing this as a future preventative.  I am also fixing drainage around the outside perimeter.  I have identified them as subterranean termites....so I just need the best way to fix the inside perimeter and the crack.....it extends all around the bedroom about quarter inch as said.

I am pulling paneling all over....doing a full perimeter check....living room has been replaced few years ago ( no termites then)...don't get me wrong, if this were a newer brick veneer or frame home they would already be out tenting.


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## Snoonyb

Termites need to return to earths moisture each 24hr. So as suggested, you'll need an extermination.


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## nealtw

So you have brick wall built on the foundation and a concrete floor that isn't sealed the the foundation. So the only wood is the 1x4 nailed to the wall.
Is the foundation solid concrete or a block?


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## nealtw

After you have solved the termite problem you can use foam cord to plug the crack and seal it with something like this.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZiIEjwoso[/ame]


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## joecaption

Post a picture so we can see what your seeing.


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## Shakeyray

Keep in mind...I have removed the bottom 1x cause it was comoletely ate through.  I broke it all off with my bare handa.  I have this post for the floor and another for the electrical.  I thought it would be better to keep them separate but there is some overlap.  Neal and bud have come up with some good comments on the other post.  I'm wondering if it's better to do a 2x4 wall for moisture or was the crack the reason I was getting moisture?


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## nealtw

Up here we have would framed building often with brick on the outside as siding. It is always placed away from the build with a gap behind it because the brick will absorb moisture and it will wick thru to the back side and we have a space down the back and bleed holes at the bottom for the water to get out.
So when the same thing happens at your house the water runs down between the drywall and the brick and down that crack and that is all the termites need.
For your house it would seal the crack build the 2x4 wall with insulation and vapour barrier or glue up foam insulation board thick enough so you could hide conduit in it.


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## Shakeyray

Okay..I'm tracking...but if I do a 2x4 wall(to get the wood off the brick) and do foam sheets(with tube foam to close the gaps), will the moisture between the foam and brick cause problems?  Will it simply dissipate back through the brick?  I don't have holes for it to breathe....but I know brick is porous both ways.


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## nealtw

Shakeyray said:


> Okay..I'm tracking...but if I do a 2x4 wall(to get the wood off the brick) and do foam sheets(with tube foam to close the gaps), will the moisture between the foam and brick cause problems?  Will it simply dissipate back through the brick?  I don't have holes for it to breathe....but I know brick is porous both ways.



Yeah it does have other things to think about.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/insulating-old-brick-buildings


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## Shakeyray

Okay neal....and everyone else....I decided to strip everything.....I dyed the floor...filled the crack with boric acid, then round rubber seal, then self leveling caulk...it's looking nice.  I ultimately decided on putting the foam and then the 2x4 walls...I want the capability to have deep outlets for those new usb and other goodies.

Anyhow, I have one last problem.  I thoroughly read everything and spoke to a local builder.  He said in this area they put that foam up(reflective side out), 3/4 polyiso, and put 1 inch furring over it.  I was just going to glue it up and use my 2x4 for the structure to hold it. BUT (wouldn't be fair without an exception) the darn pdf instructions of the RMAX r matte  states you can put furring under or over....this wouldnt be a problem but my local guy said the furring goes on top in this area.  The installation says if you leave an airgap on the reflective side it ups the r value.....??....so, glue it to the wall and be done or leave the gap?  I'm guessing if they don't install it with it under in this area it would be a no go?


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## nealtw

Reflective side, what do they think will be reflected. If you build a 2x4 wall in front if the foam you will have 3 1/2" gap in most of it.


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## Shakeyray

Yeah....I will have the gap from the 2x4s but apparently they install the reflective side toward the sun cause this is florida.  However, it seems like a lot of value is being lost placing it right next to the brick versus a gap...it is a lot easier for me to just place the foam up on the brick.  I already purchased pt furring but think I will take them back.


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## nealtw

So heat rays from the sun go thru brick and warm stuff on the other side. O K 
I don't know what I don't know but let's look at what we do know. Termites were tracking water and came up the crack. So we know water was coming thru the brick and running down behind your wall.
What is going to happens to water after you have installed foam.
I am not sure I have enough info to make good suggestion. 

BTW foam board joints just need red TUCK tape at the joints and a caulk that is made for it around the edges.

Perhaps you could look at breathable sealer for the outside of the brick.


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## Snoonyb

Spotting the adhesive will leave a slight gap needed for moisture wicking through the brick, and instead of 2X4's, I would use 2X3 steel studs and eliminates the termite food source.

Yes it's a little more expensive in material, which is more than offset in the labor savings.

Remember, termites need to return to earth's moisture ever 24hrs, so whether or not there may be moisture wicking through the brick, it does not happen consistently enough to preclude that fact of nature.

And you do have subterranean termites.


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## Shakeyray

Sorry snoonyb, I want to make sure I'm understanding your first paragraph.  The adhesive will already leave a small gap and  work good with the foam?

I completelt agree with the metal.  I'm definitely considering metal studs as I go through the rest of the exterior walls.

I stopped the moisture from the crack, got the boards off the wall, and am hauling dirt around the perimeter with drainage pipe.....the house has a good slope  but never had gutters so it's developed a pocket all the way around.....I'm very confident this will fix it.


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## Snoonyb

If you dollop the adhesive as opposed to troweling or crosshatching with a caulking gun, you'll be more inclined to provide an ability for excessive moisture to find it's way down the wall.

There are specific metal boxes designed for steel stud construction, that easily clamp on and are held in place with a tech screw.


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## nealtw

Snoonyb said:


> If you dollop the adhesive as opposed to troweling or crosshatching with a caulking gun, you'll be more inclined to provide an ability for excessive moisture to find it's way down the wall.
> 
> There are specific metal boxes designed for steel stud construction, that easily clamp on and are held in place with a tech screw.



Where do expect water to go when it gets t the bottom?

Metal studs are a pain in the *** when it comes to wiring.


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## Snoonyb

nealtw said:


> Where do expect water to go when it gets t the bottom?
> 
> Metal studs are a pain in the *** when it comes to wiring.



In the OP's climate zone the odds are that there will, seldom if ever, be sufficient moisture migration through the brick for that phenomenon to occur.

I always found wiring in steel stud framing to be a relief from romex.


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## nealtw

Snoonyb said:


> In the OP's climate zone the odds are that there will, seldom if ever, be sufficient moisture migration through the brick for that phenomenon to occur.
> 
> I always found wiring in steel stud framing to be a relief from romex.



You might be right about the water, I would like to here from someone in the area that actually knows.

As long as the OP knows the difference in the wiring for metal studs,


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## nealtw

http://www.eden-lime-mortar.co.uk/html/eden_lime_insulation.html
I asked Stuart what they do in England with these house, it appears they attempt to insulate but leave the wall breathable.


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## nealtw

Shakeyray said:


> How about for the floor?  It's solid masonry walls....should I replace just the bottom piece or all the wall strips as well with pressure treated?  And the floor is concrete...no crawlspace.



Can you figure out how your walls are built. How many layers thick and if two is there a space between them?


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## Snoonyb

In post #14 do you see any evidence of the migration you are concerned with?

Certainly, the OP should be able to avail himself of all the necessary advice needed to accomplish metal stud wiring, here-in, shouldn't he?

Here you can see the difference in the latitude of the UK, yours an the OP's;http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/imageg.htm


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## Shakeyray

have solid Norwegian brick.  They are all facing one way similar to the first pic.  They have tiny little holes but ate mostly solid and one course...no double....almost 12 inches long and about 5 or 6 inches wide.  I have been told that there is very little problem with these drawing moisure.....I think it was from that crack (50 years of settling)  and the perimeter sitting in water.  Regardless, I made sure I got all the wood out between the foam and brick just in case.

Nonetheless, I have caulked the boards with PL foam board adhesive and taped them.  I have about a 1/4 to 1/2 gap by default.....I wasn't going to take a concrete sander to the walls.  I'm putting up the 2x4 wall now.

I'm going to look into that compound....I would feel better knowing the walls were completely fireproof.  I guess UK would be quite a bit north from here latitudinally.I suppose Florida would be closer to north africa.....still, I think something like that is better than these sheets.  Probably need a PE stamp in this area.


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## pbesong

If you have subterrainian termites, you will need an exterminator. If you treat the area where they're coming in, they'll just find a new route. They can be VERY destructive. I had them in my house in PA and they did a lot of damage to the sill plates and floor joists especially. An exterminator will shoot a pesticide into your soil about ever foot around your house and will go to your basement and drill holes in the floor and walls to shoot the pesticide into the soil from there as well. This creates a barrier to prevent them from entering your house from anywhere. The colony will eventually die off from lack of wood to feed on. It cost us about $1200 to have the house treated back in 1994. Don't know what they charge these days. I think you can buy those bait traps, but I'm not sure how effective they are. Supposed to kill the colony due to the termites bringing poison back to the rest of them.


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