# Adding switch?



## drmoreau01

Okay guys,  I have this little exhaust fan here and this existing switch (for the overhead light). How hard would it be to add a switch next to the current one and piggyback power off of the existing switch? If this were DC power I would know how to do it,  but I don't know how to do the same with AC power.


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## bud16415

It depends if the ceiling light feed comes from the switch or from the light. You will know where it comes from when you pull out the switch and see how many wires come into the box. 

If the power is in the box they make a double switch and you wouldn&#8217;t need to add another box.


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## nealtw

If you can remove the fan unit and get into that cavity you can run a cable to that box and use a double switch to operate both the light and the fan. It might be tricky if there is a stud in between but not impossible.
The cable will likely be a 14/2 which is 14 gauge wire , one white, one black, and a ground.
Ground goes to ground in both the box and and the fan.
White connects to all the other whites in the box. And to white in the fan.
Black goes to and from the switch and then to the fan.

That is right after you open up the switch and find that there is power there.
If there is only one gable there with both white and black going to the switch, your game is over before it starts.
http://www.rona.ca/en/switch---decorator-double-switch


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## drmoreau01

Ground... haha. House was built in 1947 so no grounds. I will pop it open tomorrow though and see what I've got.  Thanks guys.


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## nealtw

drmoreau01 said:


> Ground... haha. House was built in 1947 so no grounds. I will pop it open tomorrow though and see what I've got.  Thanks guys.



In houses that old with cast iron plumbing steel or cast iron tubs and copper and steel pipes, GFCI outlets are more important to have than in newer houses and yes they do work with out a ground. Just thought I would throw that in.


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## afjes_2016

Not quite sure what your overall goal here is to start with.

I understand that the existing switch now operates the over head lights. You want to add a switch for the fan. So I assume the added switch is for the fan; but what operates the fan now? How does the fan now get its power? How do you turn on and shut off the fan now?

Even if the existing switch is a switch loop there is still power there to tap off of. Regular single pole switches do not require a neutral. You simple take the live wire (be sure the circuit breaker/fuse is off first) and remove it from the switch. Remove the existing switch. Now take the new double switch. Attach the live wire to the hot lead of the switch (follow instructions provided by manufacturer). Then attach the existing wire for the overhead light to the one lead on the switch. You will need to run another romex/cable to where the fan is getting its power. if the fan is presently on another switch in another location you must run that cable from the double switch to that switch location. If the fan has an on board start stop switch the you must by pass that and wire directly to the new double switch. One way or the other you need to run another line to the fan from the double switch.

*BUT*, before you do that take apart the switch (again shut power off). Take pictures of the inside of the box. Make sure we can see all the wires clearly. It is quite possible that since the fan is so close to the switch that if the power goes to switch first and then to the light the switch box may already have a cable going to the fan and feeding that. If that is the case it is just a matter of rearranging the wires in the switch box to get it to work. The only other concern I would have is that the double switches are very deep. Much more so than a normal single pole switch. So let's see how many conductors you have first, let's figure out what goes where and then we go from there. I am just hoping that there will be enough room in the switch box for the new double switch. Before you remove any wires from the existing switch be sure you make a little diagram of how and what wires go to the switch and what screws of the switch. Take pictures for yourself for later reference.


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## nealtw

afjes_2016 said:


> Not quite sure what your overall goal here is to start with.
> 
> I understand that the existing switch now operates the over head lights. You want to add a switch for the fan. So I assume the added switch is for the fan; but what operates the fan now? How does the fan now get its power? How do you turn on and shut off the fan now?
> 
> Even if the existing switch is a switch loop there is still power there to tap off of. Regular single pole switches do not require a neutral. You simple take the live wire (be sure the circuit breaker/fuse is off first) and remove it from the switch. Remove the existing switch. Now take the new double switch. Attach the live wire to the hot lead of the switch (follow instructions provided by manufacturer). Then attach the existing wire for the overhead light to the one lead on the switch. You will need to run another romex/cable to where the fan is getting its power. if the fan is presently on another switch in another location you must run that cable from the double switch to that switch location. If the fan has an on board start stop switch the you must by pass that and wire directly to the new double switch. One way or the other you need to run another line to the fan from the double switch.
> 
> *BUT*, before you do that take apart the switch (again shut power off). Take pictures of the inside of the box. Make sure we can see all the wires clearly. It is quite possible that since the fan is so close to the switch that if the power goes to switch first and then to the light the switch box may already have a cable going to the fan and feeding that. If that is the case it is just a matter of rearranging the wires in the switch box to get it to work. The only other concern I would have is that the double switches are very deep. Much more so than a normal single pole switch. So let's see how many conductors you have first, let's figure out what goes where and then we go from there. I am just hoping that there will be enough room in the switch box for the new double switch. Before you remove any wires from the existing switch be sure you make a little diagram of how and what wires go to the switch and what screws of the switch. Take pictures for yourself for later reference.



One switch turns on light
one switch turns on light and fan?


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## drmoreau01

Current switch has two wires going to it,  one white,  one black,  that is all.  Fan currently has a long cord that runs to an outlet,  just plug it in to turn it on.  I would rather not have to plug it in but rather have it wired to a switch.


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## nealtw

The quick and easy would be to replace the switch to half switch and half outlet. It would only run when the light is on but could be unplugged.


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## afjes_2016

nealtw said:


> The quick and easy would be to replace the switch to half switch and half outlet. It would only run when the light is on but could be unplugged.



This won't work because that switch is a switch loop (one black wire and one white wire). No neutral for a receptacle.

Can't run a line from the fan to the switch either. No power at fan and no neutral in switch box. He would either have to run a line from another source (such as a receptacle or other light switch - if neutral in light switch box) to either the existing switch box or to the fan then vice-versa a line to the fan from the switch box or from the fan to the switch box depending where he ends up getting the neutral from.


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## nealtw

*Plan B*. Install remote control on the light fixture, change how the switch is wired at the light box so the old switch box has black and neutral


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## afjes_2016

nealtw said:


> *Plan B*. Install remote control on the light fixture, change how the switch is wired at the light box so the old switch box has black *(hot)<--inserted* and neutral



That's a good idea however the OP will still need to run a Romex from the light switch box to the fan. Unless with your option you are referring to installing a switch/receptacle combo at the present switch box location; if so he will still have to pug and unplug the fan each time.

Also a side off topic question if I may please. Why are there so many deleted posts in this thread? Just curious. Thanks


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## bud16415

afjes_2016 said:


> That's a good idea however the OP will still need to run a Romex from the light switch box to the fan. Unless with your option you are referring to installing a switch/receptacle combo at the present switch box location; if so he will still have to pug and unplug the fan each time.
> 
> Also a side off topic question if I may please. Why are there so many deleted posts in this thread? Just curious. Thanks



The site has been getting a lot of spam as of late. There are about 5 of us keeping it under control and those are the deleted posts you see. Most of the time they are new threads.


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## afjes_2016

bud16415 said:


> The site has been getting a lot of spam as of late. There are about 5 of us keeping it under control and those are the deleted posts you see. Most of the time they are new threads.



Oh, ok. Got it. I was wondering why the posts were being deleted but now makes perfect sense.
Thanks


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## havasu

On another forum, I came into 360 different spammers or spambots who took over the forum. It took me 3 hours to clean up. We are working hard on fixes!


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## oldognewtrick

havasu said:


> On another forum, I came into 360 different spammers or spambots who took over the forum. It took me 3 hours to clean up. We are working hard on fixes!




We have our best people working on it.....our best.


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## JoeD

bud16415 said:


> The site has been getting a lot of spam as of late. There are about 5 of us keeping it under control and those are the deleted posts you see. Most of the time they are new threads.



You should use the option to remove instead of delete. That way normal users won't even see them. That's what I do on the forums I moderate at. The only time to use delete is if you think you might want to restore after consulting other Mods about content.


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## Snoonyb

I would think that the "delete" would serve users better because were they to observe these spammers on other forums, they instantly recognize them for what they are, and not have too wade through the crap.


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## nealtw

afjes_2016 said:


> That's a good idea however the OP will still need to run a Romex from the light switch box to the fan. Unless with your option you are referring to installing a switch/receptacle combo at the present switch box location; if so he will still have to pug and unplug the fan each time.



Details I left out until we heard back from the OP for his thoughts.


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## bud16415

JoeD said:


> You should use the option to remove instead of delete. That way normal users won't even see them. That's what I do on the forums I moderate at. The only time to use delete is if you think you might want to restore after consulting other Mods about content.



I would if we had an option remove post as spam. We dont have that option in the admin tool box that I have seen. When we do the delete as spam it also bans the user. They are trying all kinds of things to become a new user you have to do but they keep getting around them.


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## havasu

We do have the "delete as spam" function, but something says it no longer permabans the idiot.


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## JoeD

I know we are getting off topic but one last post on the subject.
The forums I am on have a 'spam-o-matic' option. I think it is an add in the admin installed. It deletes the post,bans the user, and reports the user id and IP to stopformspam.com.


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## latelifebiker

nealtw said:


> In houses that old...  GFCI outlets are more important to have than in newer houses and yes they do work with out a ground. Just thought I would throw that in.



That right there is some good information to know and remember.


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