# Dealing with wire without ground



## Mark_D_Haag (Dec 19, 2012)

Aside from rewiring the house with wire with a ground, what are the hazards of rewiring the receptacles with new ones with a ground?   This will allow me to use appliances with ground connections.


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## nealtw (Dec 19, 2012)

Use a GFI plug and mark the out side "no ground". The GFI will work and protect you from getting a shock.


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## Mark_D_Haag (Dec 19, 2012)

nealtw said:
			
		

> Use a GFI plug and mark the out side "no ground". The GFI will work and protect you from getting a shock.



So are you saying start every circuit with a GFCI?


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## nealtw (Dec 19, 2012)

That is the cheap way to get some safety without re-wiring.


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## JoeD (Dec 19, 2012)

The GFCI solution is the only one that is code compliant and safe. One GFCI at the beginning of the circuit or GFCI receptacles at each point are both valid options.


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## Wuzzat? (Dec 20, 2012)

I understood that ground wires do not have to be insulated and 
I could not find anything prohibiting running ground wires from the new receptacle under quarter round, baseboards, or wherever, down to where you can find the metal inlet cold water pipe.

Does anyone have a code cite that could be interpreted in such a way as to contradict this?  "Speak now, or . . ."


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## dthornton (Dec 20, 2012)

Not a pro, but just my 2 cents' worth ... if your wiring is so old that it has no ground, I would think you probably would want to rewire anyway. Anyone disagree?


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## nealtw (Dec 20, 2012)

I will dissagree. 1. House not worth spending alot but OP wants to make somewhat safe on a budget.
                        2. OP wants to remodel the whole house while living in and wants to make it safe while he devalopes the plan.
                         3. People are still finding it tough to make a living and just can't afford everything at one time.
                           4. Should I go on.


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## Mark_D_Haag (Dec 20, 2012)

I have read some additional articles and what I believe I understand is that a GFCI will protect you from electrocution but in the event of an electrical surge! It will not protect the electrical components?

Am I understanding this correctly?

If this  is true, Is there any way to protect the equipment without rewiring?  I do understand that there are surge protectors designed for ungrounded plugs but they are very expensive.  Where would I find one to price out and what would I look up?


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## nealtw (Dec 21, 2012)

Whole house " might " get you there but then you likely need to change panel


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## JoeD (Dec 21, 2012)

Most surge protector require a ground to shunt the surge. So a surge protector on an ungrounded will in most cases be useless.


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## Wuzzat? (Dec 21, 2012)

Mark_D_Haag said:


> I have read some additional articles and what I believe I understand is that a GFCI will protect you from electrocution but in the event of an electrical surge! It will not protect the electrical components?
> 
> Am I understanding this correctly?
> 
> If this  is true, Is there any way to protect the equipment without rewiring?  I do understand that there are surge protectors designed for ungrounded plugs but they are very expensive.  Where would I find one to price out and what would I look up?


Unless you live in FL or the Ozarks it may not be worth it.
[ame]http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=isokeraunic&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8[/ame]

The ungrounded protectors should be cheaper since they cannot protect against line to ground surges.  Post some links.


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## dthornton (Dec 21, 2012)

Neal, I agree with you, and I can relate to all you said. 1. We bought an old (1890) house that even after fixing up won't bring a lot in this economy. 2. My wife and I are rehabbing the house while we live in it, and are doing most of the work ourselves. 3. I struggle with the finances. If I had the money, I'd pay someone else to do the work on this house (It has become a much bigger project than we ever imagined!)   4. Nope - No need to go on - I got your point. In my house, I've found that some of the knob-and-tube is bare. I'm thinking that's not a good scenario. Lowe's has a 1000' roll of 12/2 with ground for about $380. If Mark's wire is sound, though, adding some GFCI's would be a lot easier and less money.


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## CallMeVilla (Dec 22, 2012)

Want a HORROR STORY??  When I was first beginning, I did run a ground wire through the baseboard, through the adjoining wall and into the space containing the water heater and the connections to the bathroom.  My plan was to use a clamp for the ground to the cold water pipe.

Simple?  Sure.

So, I found a pipe and clamped the wire.  Job done  . . . Driving away, I mentally reviewed the work and to my horror, I realized I had NOT connected the ground to the water pipe  . . .  (wait for it) ...

I had grounded to the gas line!

Squealing my u-turn and breaking every traffic law, I raced back to the house before the people could use the receptacle.  They were oblivious to my terror  ...  I changed the connection and got out of there.  Lesson learned:  DOUBLE CHECK all electrical work before, during and after.


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## JoeD (Dec 22, 2012)

In Ontario gas line are required to bonded to the metal water lines.


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