# Thesis Project - Modular wall panels



## kendo31 (Jul 8, 2014)

Hello all.
I'm a graduate student exploring the feasibility and market of producing a modular wall system where the resident mounts proprietary uprights onto the wall structure providing them with the ability to apply a myriad of modules. These modules are used for shelving, hanging, storage, cabinetry, or to apply various materials and finishes. Modules would be interchangeable thus allowing people to easily add, remove, relocate items as needed. 
A draft concept walkthrough is viewable from the link below:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EMfhs_KtzE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EMfhs_KtzE[/ame]
I'd like to gauge people of expertise on their initial impressions. Any questions and comments welcome.
Thanks.


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## havasu (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm a little confused. Is this garage system what you are trying to duplicate?


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## slownsteady (Jul 8, 2014)

Nice idea, but doesn't seem that revolutionary. What  gets left behind when you decide to move a module someplace else? If the wall is "damaged" by the supports, then it's no different than screwing in existing items.


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## kendo31 (Jul 8, 2014)

The application is for anywhere in the home.  When you place a pair of uprights, it's with the intent that some form of module would always exist there. Over time, the desire to add, update, and remove components is much easier than destroying drywall.  In this manner, walls and never destroyed, merely reskinned.  The uprights are regarded as permanent and regular as the structural studs within the walls.

**sidenote** i posted the same inquiry on DIYchatroom.com and 10 min latter I'm completely banned...what's their deal??


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## bud16415 (Jul 8, 2014)

We like to talk to new members a bit before we ban them. 

Actually we get several of this type post per year. It's interesting to watch the replies more than the questions. I'm an inventor and have a few patents and I never say never to new ideas. I actually saw your title and was excited as I thought you were working on walls that could be moved. Myself as you have asked would not be interested in such a product. Maybe a better place for a system would be in office space. But there are already many doing that. Your film was nice but I would want to see detail on how it all works. 


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 8, 2014)

kendo31 said:


> **sidenote** i posted the same inquiry on DIYchatroom.com and 10 min latter I'm completely banned...what's their deal??



Forums like this don't appreciate new members using us for free advertising. Websites like this cost a lot of money to run and are funded by advertisers. First time posters, promoting a product or service usually end up banned. Posting like to other website will get you booted, please re-read the forum rules that you agreed to when you registered.


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## nealtw (Jul 8, 2014)

Great if it gets you a passing grade, but that dog will not hunt.


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## bud16415 (Jul 8, 2014)

I understand this is a project for a class, and some professor suggested you use some sort of method to collect data. 

I once did something similar only in real life and it was a product I was getting a patent on and needed real input before sinking a life savings into. I joined a forum that was quite ingrained in the topic and participated for many months getting a feeling of the members and truly forming friendships. I then asked if they would honestly give me feedback. It worked out great and I still know all the people there. The thing is when you join a place like this with a goal in mind you will miss out on lots of information you didn't even know you would find out.    


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair


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## Jungle (Jul 8, 2014)

" In this manner, walls and never destroyed, merely reskinned."

People in housing are cheap. Like $8 for a sheet of drywall.  That's what your competing against, you can do a lot with dry wall, it's even fireproof. Most people have one kitchen for years and years and years. So i think your overestimating peoples desire to change their decor.  Think cheap like Ikea. People want a shelf they get one for $10 and put it on their wall where they want. If they don't like it they take it down and repair the drywall. Cheap system, why mess with it?


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## kendo31 (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies and not slapping an insta-ban.  

I do realize the feasibility of the proposal is perhaps not the most economic, however there are products and markets which surround my target and I'm merely attempting to address such a sweet spot.  

If I had the time to cultivate realtionships perhaps I would finese my approach here more delicately however time is not so expendable. I still don't understand the hostility of crowd sourcing...I'm not selling anything nor pose to benefit financially at all. The beauty of formus is to pose opinions and discussion...even if theoretical. There's something oddly defensive & territorial about some sites that results in unnecessary backlash. 

I do enjoy reading though the responses and will continue to develop this.  If I'm not banned by then perhaps I'll update.


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## bud16415 (Jul 10, 2014)

Now you are on to an interesting topic to study. The interrelationships formed in cyber space. I have participated in quite a few web forums and even though they are quite different in topics they have some common threads running thru them all. One is there is a bit of family relationship formed between many long time posters and the forum itself is a bit of a house where the family resides. Always a few father figures and some members that come and go and even a weird cousin or two that the family understands even though many in the neighborhood aren&#8217;t so sure. 

Then there are guests that come for a short visit and like in real life make a first impression. I understand that you don&#8217;t have months or years to waste building relationships but you might have 15 minutes over a day or two. 

If I was to approach this from your side I might have come in with a softer approach. Like, Hi my name is Ken and I go to the University of Hard Knocks or UHK as we call it. I have been lurking here a few days and I see there are many of you much older and more experienced than me that I could learn from and I would really like to present an idea I have as a graduate student project needing help, advice and yes even the hard truth good or bad of my idea. I have made a short demo movie as part of my project and I could link it if that was ok. Again I&#8217;m not spam or trying to sell anything I&#8217;m just a student looking for real world advice. If that&#8217;s ok with the mods I will post the information and sit back and see what you all think. 

Looking forward to meeting everyone.
Ken 

When you get into the real world the tool set you bring with you from college is that just a tool set. What truly will make you successful is interpersonal relationships along with what you can do with those tools. Real life isn&#8217;t much different than web forums. I see a dozen new employees a month that I interact with and forming first impressions of them within minutes. Many let those first impressions dictate the level of help and guidance they get and eventually their outcome in the work place.


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## slownsteady (Jul 10, 2014)

> There's something oddly defensive & territorial about some sites that results in unnecessary backlash.



Once you open the door to sales people, it's hard to keep them quiet....or even respectful to the topic. If your 'question' turns out to be soft-sell, well then there's a reason to ban you.


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## nealtw (Jul 10, 2014)

I have no problem with a student coming looking for feed back on an idea. But is has to make sence, I watched the video expecting to see panels being moved and how it worked and what the selction might be, well.
I have a pretty good immagination and I can't see this ever being a good idea for a home owner and may even lower the value of the house.

Now if he suggested it was for changable back drops for TV stations or furnature stores or even the garage. I would have suggested that earier but if you can't come up with the right customers what's the point of building something new.


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## zannej (Jul 11, 2014)

Not to De-rail this, but Bud, what do you have patented? Is it difficult to get a patent?


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## bud16415 (Jul 11, 2014)

zannej said:


> Not to De-rail this, but Bud, what do you have patented? Is it difficult to get a patent?


 

Zannej
Thanks for asking and your question is really not too far off topic. Patent laws in the USA keep changing. They used to be first to invent and most of the world was first to file. We are now first to file. There is also a lot to think about as to public disclosure and posting an invention on the internet is giving the world a good look at what you are inventing and I personally wouldnt do that until I was pretty sure I was safely covered by starting the patent process.    

The process of getting a patent or at least filing for a patent isnt real hard. It will cost you some money though. Several hundred or more to get the ball rolling and then to follow it thru till you are holding a patent with your name on it is maybe $10,000. Its something of great pride and accomplishment for me, but the process and what you learn along the way is quite disillusioning. Once you have an idea before anything starts there is a patent search done. And its something you can do yourself. Almost anything you may think of has many patents already. Im sure the wall hanging modular device this thread is about you will find 100s if not 1000s of similar ideas. Then it becomes an issue of being different in some way. The items that sets your invention apart from the rest are then filed as claims and the broader the claims the more protection you will have in this country. The trouble with narrow claims is if someone wants to copy your invention all they have to do is change it enough to get around your narrow claim and then your patent isnt worth the paper its printed on. The other problem is we live in a global market and countries like China could care less about our laws of patent infringement. And its up to you to try and enforce your patent when the copy shows up in this country. It is very hard and complex to file in all countries and chances of having protection are slim. Keep in mind Im not a lawyer and these are my personal thoughts on the system. 

For me to patent something today it would have to be something really unique with broad claims that would be hard to get around. It would have to be a product thats only practical to build and use in this country, and it would have to be something I would be planning on manufacturing myself or I would have a plan in place with someone to partner with to manufacture. The days of inventing a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door I feel are over for the little guy. Its more like build a better mouse trap show the world how to do it with a patent and they will build a billion of them in China and it will cost you everything you have fighting them and loose unless you can find 25 cent an hour labor and start a company. I watch the shark tank and view it a little different. But it is true if you can find investment money and go global like they do on that show there is fortunes to be made still. Maybe 1 out of 1000 might make a go of it. 

I have several work related patents for process equipment and methods of manufacturing products etc. I also have one patent I did all on my own as much for the experience of doing it as anything. It was a new mechanism to raise and lower a snow plow or similar piece of equipment. The invention allows variable down pressure on the cutting edge from nothing to much more than the weight of the equipment. It also uses a fraction of the power with each cycle up and down of the equipment, thus saving a lot of fuel. I thought the time was right so I pursued it. If I was able to manufacture it at a reasonable cost I think I could have made it go. The people in this market were a really hard sell and would rather wait you out than partner. 

When I grew up innovation was a big part of the American spirit. I remember reading in school about guys like Edison and they were heros. Today not so much IMHO. Capitalism and Free markets are becoming bad words, or at least its a quite different global game now. 

Again thats just my opinion based on the few things I have seen. I would never discourage anyone from being inventive and trying.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 11, 2014)

kendo31 said:


> **sidenote** i posted the same inquiry on DIYchatroom.com and 10 min latter I'm completely banned...what's their deal??


I would have left the name off the video.

Me be gone from that forum because I was tirelessly harassed and defamed by Jim Port.  For a lawsuit to proceed I would have to have shown that people believed his accusations.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 11, 2014)

zannej said:


> Not to De-rail this, but Bud, what do you have patented? Is it difficult to get a patent?


A statutory invention registration is much cheaper & easier.

BTW, I remember reading about this case in the US Patent Quarterly.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1054159.html
IIRC Ms. Gilberto argued that viewers would confuse her with Miss Piggy. 

On the other hand, "Gilberto is an ardent advocate of animal rights.[3]" so this does seem like a contradiction!


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## zannej (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks for the info, Bud and Wazzat. I once did peruse the patent page looking for specific things. I wanted to submit an idea to Corningware/Corelle to make stackable mugs (ones that fit in cup holders) with whatever material they use to make their plates and bowls that are very hard to break. I have dropped them and stepped on them without breaking them-- love those things. I found the patent for the stacking thing and for the ceramic material (or whatever it would be called), but there was no specific patent for the combination of the two and Corningware required that you provide the patent # for the final idea. So I could never submit it. Bummer.

And now I'm hungry for some Baked Lays AND I want to listen to the Girl from Ipanema... I love that song.


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 11, 2014)

I thought you were having icecream? What happened to that?


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 12, 2014)

Try this
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1413305164/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Perpetual motion machines are supposed to be impossible but there is a patent on one.  
There is also supposed to be a machine that, if you plug it in it doesn't weigh anything. But it never lifts off the scale, either.

And IIRC it turns out that some unknown person invented the integrated circuit before the person who is actually credited with this invention.  So, IIRC, the Patent Office changed the wording in their display case for this device (when they were in Crystal City) so that figuring out what was invented by the putative inventor is constructively impossible.  The actual first inventor was not mentioned.


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## zannej (Jul 12, 2014)

I think if people even put forth the idea with some schematics-- whether it works or not-- they can patent it.

Looks like my brother found my ice cream sandwiches.... There are only a few left. He also found my hostess cupcakes and now there are none left.

I wonder if there are different patents for the new refrigerators with the doors that open only the door shelves part if you pull at the right spot or press a button but then open the full door if you hold it at the right spot or hit a button. I saw some of the new fridges with that feature at Best Buy. I forget what brand model-- I think LG- had a 30.6cu ft fridge and I kept playing with the doors. It even had a thing where you could have shelves on the door near the icemaker. The only drawback was it had one of those huge bottom drawers that kill my back if I try to reach in to them. Well, ok, that wasn't the ONLY drawback. There was the price and the fact that every time you shut one of the doors, the other door would pop open a little. I said something to one of the employees who was coming over to see what was up and he said "but it reseals afterward" and I'm thinking "but it still lets quite a bit of cold air out every time you shut one of the doors and that is pretty wasteful.

Of course, I know the doors had been opened and closed about a bajillion times so I don't know if they do that during normal operation when you first get them.

And wow, I'm really going off on a tangent. LOL.

To get back on topic, modular wall panels sound neat, but I don't really know what I would ever use them for.


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## slownsteady (Jul 12, 2014)

Well from a business point of view, it's a great idea to have a built-in system that requires you to purchase the modules from them exclusively. Every time you have a new use or want to redecorate, it's back to the same company. That's the most compelling reason _not_ to buy into the system, but there are plenty of suckers who will.

BTW that demo video showed me nothing about the product and very little about the skill of the animator.:2cents:


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## zannej (Jul 13, 2014)

I couldn't even get the video to load earlier. I'll have to wait until after midnight and see if it will load for me. I wonder what software was used.


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## zannej (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok. I finally got to load it.

Kendo, I think you need a little sound for the video. Perhaps some soft music (nothing boring but nothing annoying/distracting) or a voiceover describing what people are seeing. Even some text popups to describe what people are seeing would help.

I would also suggest that you show a cutaway view of the walls to show this modular system behind the walls. Had you not described what you were trying to show, I would have had no idea that you were trying to demonstrate some sort of modular in-wall system.


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## kendo31 (Jul 16, 2014)

The video was modeled in SketchUp and rendered in Lumion.  This is the first video I've ever made and is in very raw form.  As soon as the model was somewhat showing a decent intent, I wanted to get it out for initial impressions.  Clearly there is much addtional information that has to be conveyed which I continue to work on.  

My advisor gave similar suggestions as discussed here such as narration, floating text, cutting portions, etc will give insight and focus to the stoic walkthrough.  These were already intentions I had to add and develop later.  I'll be working on an actual animation to illustrate the system's construction.  I'll be attempting to learn Navisworks for the model animation, that should clarify the systems ease of use and flexibility.

As a business model, surely a patent on this would be ideal but I would want to license the connections between the structure and the modules to others for thier innovative ideas.  There would be first-party wall accessories but licensing the expertise to other companies, say Apple, would provide a way to extend their brand experience.  

*A floor to ceiling white gossy device stand/charger with speakers would be neat IMO*


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## carnuck (Jul 16, 2014)

A friend of mine makes SIP panel homes with a foam like product sandwiched between panelling. Her own house is made of them.


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## nealtw (Jul 16, 2014)

carnuck said:


> A friend of mine makes SIP panel homes with a foam like product sandwiched between panelling. Her own house is made of them.



Lots of hipe about twenty years ago, never seen one built.


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## zannej (Jul 17, 2014)

Good luck with that, kendo. Hopefully you will have fun with the project. I've used sketchup, but am still a novice at it. I'm trying to figure out how to export things to Milkshape 3D and then make more detailed models then reimport the models as .skp files to use in sketchup. But the home repair projects are taking precedent over that. I'll have to look in to some of the stuff you mentioned and eventually play around with it since I have a fascination with graphics.

Since you might need licenses to use certain songs, you might just want to add in some sound effects or something when panning. Not sure on the exact ones. There is a show called "Income Property" where they use some sort of software to show how they will change a space and they add little sound effects along with some narration from the host.


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## mako1 (Jul 28, 2014)

the main problem that I have with your thesis is that you have no understanding of the structure of the items your hanging off of a couple studs.In order to use a design like this we would have to restructure every piece we have in our homes to make them usable.They would have to have enough structural strength to hang off 2 rails on the wal in place of 4 legs on the floor.What are we gaining?Four inches of unusable space  under cabinetwork that would cost much more to build.Do you know how much weight a dresser full will take and how much load it will put on a wall hanging off of 2 studs spaced at 16" OC?
 As far as the lighter items like frames and boards.It's not even a consideration.Thousands of ways to hang them and move them anytime you want.
 Do you know what a French cleat is?They have been around for centuries.


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## slownsteady (Jul 28, 2014)

Well the fact is that we don't know how much engineering went into this thesis because Kendo hasn't told us. I imagine he's working with hypotheticals here. But yes a deep, fully filled dresser will exert lots of forces on the the uprights. 

Kendo, what keeps the wall from getting scuffed and such by a particular unit and how does that get covered up when the new unit is smaller?


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## Ditchmonkey (Apr 15, 2015)

oops posted to wrong place


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