# Engineered floating-click on plywood questions



## o2284200 (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm  preparing for engineered floating-click installation on three 2nd floor  bedrooms, closets & hallway that have plywood sub-floor.  I have  removed old carpet, tack strips, nails & baseboards and will use  Floor Muffler Ultraseal as underlayment.
I have a few questions, if it's not too much trouble...

1a) Subfloor:  What type of nails or screws would you use to tighten up creeks in the plywood sub-floor?
1b) What else do I have to do to prep the plywood sub-floor?

2)  Acclimating: I have all the cases of wood on the first floor and plan  to do this install on the second floor in stages so I plan to do the 2  guest bedrooms and hallway first due to other work in master bedroom  & bathroom.  That said, where would you stack the planks...in each  room??? ...so they don't get in the way of your install?  And do you  stack on top of the underlayment after it's installed?

3)  Expansion gap & baseboards:  The manufacturer's instructions say I  need to leave a 1/2" expansion gap by the walls.  I'm in a very humid  climate and I found only one baseboard at HD bigger than 1/2" and it was  9/16".  That said, what material would you recommend for the baseboards  and what size to cover the expansion gap?

Thanks


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## nealtw (Nov 15, 2014)

Deck screws work fine, angle or toe nails also stop movement.
For the baseboard a second molding called shoe molding is common. Can be a shoe molding, corner cove, quarter round or any smaller molding that complements the first one.
http://blog.townfloors.com/2011/10/12/shoe-molding-vs-quarter-round/
Are you cutting the bottom of the door frames to allow the hardwood to go under them ?
Not sure about question 2


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## beachguy005 (Nov 15, 2014)

As nealtw said you can use shoe mold at the bottom of the baseboard but if you don't want to do that, you can cut back that existing sheetrock 1/2" up from the floor.  That way you'll have that plus the thickness of the baseboard for expansion. 
I wouldn't be too concerned with storing it in each room.  You just need to acclimate it to inside the house. 
As for prepping the subfloor, you want to be certain that the floor is flat and smooth.  Any bumps or dips can create issues with the new flooring joints.
As an aside....Once you start you can't make any changes so you want to make sure your layout is good. Not just sidewall to sidewall but into closets and doorways.  Measure the width of your room and divide it by the width of you planks.  You may need to rip the first course so you end up with equal planks on both sides.
Buy an inexpensive reciprocating plunge saw for undercutting door jambs and such.


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## o2284200 (Nov 17, 2014)

Thanks!

Sub-floor...
How do you make certain that the floor is flat & smooth?  And perhaps more importantly...straight or not crooked i.e. square corners??

Acclimating... 
My main concern is working smart not hard...I don't want to carry the cases upstairs or move them more than I have to AND don't want them to get in the way of my install.

Expansion gap & baseboards...
I was hoping to avoid shoe molding or quarter round BUT cutting back the  existing plastered walls 1/2" up from the floor sounds like too much  work.  I take it 9/16 is not recommended for a 1/2" gap... If not, where  can I find baseboards larger than 9/16?  And which material would you recommend for the baseboards wood, plastic, MDF?

FWIW,  Yes, I plan on cutting the bottom of the door frames to allow the hardwood to go under them.


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## mako1 (Nov 17, 2014)

Do your layout before moving any flooring into the rooms and place them where they will be laid last.Also opening the boxes and spreading them out will help with acclimation.
 As far as the expansion.You could buy 3/4" poplar 1X4's  for a decent price and use for base adding a piece of trim molding on top.Or routing a profile of your choice.
 If your corners are not square,and they won't be,there is nothing you can do about that now but cut the flooring to fit.Smooth is simple.No nails or bumps or any uneven laps in the subfloor.You can check for flat by running a string line from corner to corner acrossed the floor.Easiest and cheapest way to tell.


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## o2284200 (Nov 18, 2014)

Thanks!


			
				mako1 said:
			
		

> Do your layout before moving any flooring into the rooms and place them where they will be laid last.Also opening the boxes and spreading them out will help with acclimation.


What is a layout and how is a layout done?



			
				mako1 said:
			
		

> As far as the expansion.You could buy 3/4" poplar 1X4's for a decent price and use for base adding a piece of trim molding on top.Or routing a profile of your choice.


Interesting...What about materials other than wood?



			
				mako1 said:
			
		

> If your corners are not square,and they won't be,there is nothing you can do about that now but cut the flooring to fit...


I was thinking, if it's not too far off, I could adjust the spacers a bit as I go and keep an eye on straightness...Or I think I read somewhere about making a chalk line or 2 cross lines to work off...?


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## beachguy005 (Nov 18, 2014)

9/16" or 1/2" really isn't the issue.  It's how that gap translates to your walls.  Your flooring needs to be perfectly straight but your walls won't be.  So a 9/16" gap may be at one end but 3/4" in the center of the room and 1/4" at the other end.  If you try to fudge the gap and then get some shrinkage after you put up the baseboard you'll see any gap.
You don't want to use shoe mold and cutting back the sheet rock is too much work, you could go to product that gets nailed or glued down so you won't have to worry bout an expansion gap.
If you're going to use 3/4 stock for base, I would use 1x4 primed, finger jointed pine.  Get it t HD in 16" lengths. Then cap it with a molding of your choice.  That creates other issues because 3/4 stock will be proud of your door casings so you should also use plinths on the bottoms of them.  More work.


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## bud16415 (Nov 18, 2014)

Along the starting wall if the wall is greatly bowed you might have to trim that edge to the contour of the room and maintain the recommended gap. Along the walls with cut ends they don&#8217;t have to all be in line cut each piece to the proper gap and the saw tooth edge will be under the trim. I&#8217;m a little surprised they tell you to leave that much gap. Most of what I have done .25 inch was more than enough. 

I liked the suggestion of cutting the drywall off at the bottom. With the right tool that would only take a few minutes. I personally don&#8217;t think the trim looks finished without the shoe. 

As to the layout I like to know before I start what my last strip is going to be and if it&#8217;s going to be a sliver I adjust the width of the first piece.


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## o2284200 (Nov 18, 2014)

Thanks!
@beachguy very informative...lots to think about!  

Regarding layout, starting wall and knowing before I start what my last strip is going to be...How do you do a "layout", determine starting wall and last piece?


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## bud16415 (Nov 18, 2014)

Well if you measure your room and say the width is 12&#8217; 3 7/8&#8221; that is 147.875&#8221; if each strip of flooring is 5.371&#8221; wide you divide the room width by the flooring width. And get 27.53 strips of flooring call it 27 and a half strips. If you are ok with a half strip on that wall go at it. I just made up those numbers as an example. Say your answer was 27.1 strips then you would be ending with a sliver of a strip you could then start off with a different width by ripping the first piece by some amount and ending up with a wider piece at the end. 

The other way is what you may have read by finding the center of the room and working out with your layout you have a choice the center of the room could be an edge or it could be down the center of a strip. You calculate both ways and pick the one that leaves the widest piece on the beginning and end rows.


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## beachguy005 (Nov 18, 2014)

You want the flooring to look even and as bud noted you don't want to end up with a sliver on one side of the room.
Using his numbers, if you get 27.53 strips you have 2 options for a balanced layout. 27 full planks in the middle with the leftover .53 plank ripped to .25 for each side. That would give you 2 very narrow strips that won't look that good.  The other option is a layout of 26 full planks and 1.53 planks for the sides.  Those would be about 4" wide and look better.  (5.371" x 1.53 divided 2 = 4" planks)


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2014)

OK I have a wrench to throw in here. He is doing bedrooms hallway and bathroom. All calculations are made in the hall and what happens in the other rooms is lived with.


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## slownsteady (Nov 18, 2014)

You're supposed to start in the biggest, most visible room. And all your problem spots get pushed to the out-of-the-way corners and closets.


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> You're supposed to start in the biggest, most visible room. And all your problem spots get pushed to the out-of-the-way corners and closets.



The most visible space is the hallway.


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## beachguy005 (Nov 18, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> You're supposed to start in the biggest, most visible room. And all your problem spots get pushed to the out-of-the-way corners and closets.




Don't start there.  Start in the smallest, least visible room.  Given that it's your first time installing the flooring you're going to make some mistakes. 
Better that they're in a location that you won't see that often, rather than in a spot you'll look at every day.  After the first room you'll learn what you'll do differently in the rest.


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## bud16415 (Nov 18, 2014)

When I did mine I went into the flooring place with my drawing and I had about 600 sq ft to lay involving five interconnected areas. The guy there told me I had to break the floor in two different arch ways as no one would lay it like I wanted. I told him I was DIY and he said good luck. When I got it down I showed him a few photos and he asked to come over and see it. He did and then offered me a job as an installer. I told him no thanks.

You guys are correct if its a hall you have to get that symmetrical and decide is it going to all be done in one lay or will the rooms have a trim strip. If its one big lay I would still look at each room off it seeing how the far wall will work out in each room. Starting the hall to take best advantage you can.  


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2014)

slownsteady said:


> You're supposed to start in the biggest, most visible room. And all your problem spots get pushed to the out-of-the-way corners and closets.



The most visible space is the hallway.

Most houses that were plasted have a 1x2 nailed the wall at the floor and around the doors and windows to help the craftsman get the wall straight. That 1x2 at the floor can be removed to allow the floor to go under the plaster.

This guy did lam but his video is interesting.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxmOJxaTnH4[/ame]


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## o2284200 (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks!
Especially for the math homework @B & B!
My initial thought was to "practice" by starting to install in guest bedrooms but THAT makes sense about the hallway too. Hmmm?


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## o2284200 (Nov 24, 2014)

Here's a quick sketch I made of the layout&#8230;I am also planning to remove parquet from stairs, sand & re-finish old staircase.  That said...Where would you start?


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## beachguy005 (Nov 24, 2014)

Are you planning running the flooring right out of the rooms and into the halls or will you have an expansion gap and threshold trim at the doors?


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## o2284200 (Nov 24, 2014)

The plan FOR NOW is the for old parquet flooring in the hallways to stay so I assume a transitions are needed between the new flooring in the bedrooms.  And I plan on starting with the guest bedrooms.  I say FOR NOW because I plan on doing the hallway & staircase at a later time...

Ideally I'd do all the new flooring at once.  However, just off the master bedroom there's an exterior deck that needs work.  I also may need to replace the entire master bathroom tile flooring but I don't want to open that can of worms just yet due to an upcoming 4-pt inspection.  

Both the deck & master bathroom jobs would mean walking over and working on & around the new flooring in the master bedroom and main hallway, therefore I'm hesitant to start with either the master bedroom or main hallway for fear of damaging the new flooring working on the deck & master bathroom.

A couple of questions&#8230;
1) If running all the same flooring at once, what is the proper method? A) Running the flooring right out of the rooms and into the halls. or B) Having an expansion gap and threshold trim at the doors.

2) If I did have to work over and around it, what could I do to protect the new engineered flooring in the master bedroom & hallway?


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## beachguy005 (Nov 24, 2014)

There is no "proper" way.  Both work fine.  The issues are the need for expansion joints and personal preference.  Thing is, if you run continuous, you have to be spot on with your layout and there is no margin for error.  If you started top right bedroom, running the long way right to left, by the time you come out of the bedroom door you'll need to run down the hall. If your original starting point is off a bit or the walls aren't parallel, your flooring seams will be off and you won't be able to correct them.  With tile you can adjust a bit with grout spacing.  Not with laminate.  
Doing each room individually with an expansion gap at the doors gives you more room for errors.


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## bud16415 (Nov 24, 2014)

Having done it both ways and not being a professional I would say in your case on the 1 to 10 DIY skill level the all one big lay would put the job at a solid 8 or 9 whereas doing with expansion joints it would be a 4 or 5. For all the reasons beachguy mentioned. The area I did all one piece was 5 areas on the first floor and they were big rooms with wide archways not doors and I didn&#8217;t want to break it up with trim strips. If I was doing an upstairs area such as yours I would want the two halls to be seamless and I would run the grain with the hall coming up the stairs. The rest of the rooms I would do one at a time and might even turn the grain directions to best suit the eye when you enter the room. Would make the logistics of the rest of your work go a lot better also.


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## o2284200 (May 4, 2016)

This is an older thread and I noticed that my flooring sketch is no longer displaying.  Is it better to restart this old thread and re-upload layout or start a new "Where to start installing first flooring planks?" thread?


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## nealtw (May 4, 2016)

I would carry on here.


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## o2284200 (May 10, 2016)

OK, thanks...Here's my flooring sketch again.  I'm doing all 3 bedrooms, closets and hallways.  I'm neither doing bathrooms (May do in 18x18, 3/8" porcelain tile) nor the stairs (Re-finishing) with this hardwood flooring.


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## o2284200 (May 10, 2016)

beachguy005 said:


> ... Your flooring needs to be perfectly straight but your walls won't be. ...


How do I ensure that the flooring is perfectly straight, if the walls are not?


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## nealtw (May 10, 2016)

For a single room you might find center of both end walls and snap a line. then measure back to the wall, that would leave maybe both walls out a little.
Then you would check how that lines up with the door way. sometimes it's better to use the door way to dictate the straight line you want to use.


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