# Can't remove seat bolt from this 10-yr-old Kohler toilet



## ilyaz (Aug 20, 2020)

Have had a variation of *this model* Kohler for 10 years. The seat broke so I thought it would take 5 minutes to replace it. Not so! I can't remove the bolts. They turn freely in either direction after I finally dislodged them with a screwdriver, but I can pull them out or tighten them. They are stuck. Can I remove them without breaking the toilet and then be able to install a new seat? Or do I need a new toilet?? TIA!


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 20, 2020)

Have you tried using a flat head screwdriver under the bolt head and gently prying up as you turn the bolts?


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## ilyaz (Aug 20, 2020)

oldognewtrick said:


> Have you tried using a flat head screwdriver under the bolt head and gently prying up as you turn the bolts?



Yep. Same result. :-(


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## Snoonyb (Aug 20, 2020)

I use a sawzall.


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## ilyaz (Aug 21, 2020)

Snoonyb said:


> I use a sawzall.



To do what? The bottoms of the bolts are somehow stuck in the holes. If I cut off the tops, how would this help me?


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## Snoonyb (Aug 21, 2020)

Cut the tops off.
The holes are a thru hole, just punch them thru.


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## ilyaz (Aug 21, 2020)

Snoonyb said:


> The holes are a thru hole



In this model, they are not. That's the problem. I've never seen a design like this before. All our other toilets have through holes


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## Jeff Handy (Aug 21, 2020)

Typical bs Kohler crazy engineering. 
Here are a few vids that should help you.


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## Jeff Handy (Aug 21, 2020)




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## Jeff Handy (Aug 21, 2020)

If you watch these vids, other similar vids should keep coming up on Youtube. 

The hidden anchor system is ridiculous. 

Some people had luck with prying up with a flat screwdriver under the edges of the anchor, until it got exposed enough to get a pliers or vice grips on it.  

Then wiggling back and forth while pulling up. 

Or follow the Kohler official vid. 

You will need another Kohler anchor bolt kit to install a new seat.


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## ilyaz (Aug 21, 2020)

What an over-engineered clusterf%$#! Thanks. Using a pry bar, I pulled those out.

Here's a crazy idea: can I use some sort of masonry bit to drill through the porcelain to make it like "a normal toilet"? And then find a long enough bolt that will fit. Or will I just break porcelain (or kill the bit)?


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## Jeff Handy (Aug 21, 2020)

You can’t drill the porcelain. 

Just order a new anchor bolt kit from Kohler. 
Call their customer service for help, the toilet info and date of manufacture are molded into the back of the tank wall. 
Models change over the years, so dates matter. 

Next toilet, do not buy Kohler crazy garbage.


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## havasu (Aug 21, 2020)

I have a friend that has one of those new-fangled "one piece" toilets, that constantly has a loose seat. I'd rip that puppy off the floor and toss it out the window.... but that's just me.


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## bud16415 (Aug 21, 2020)

havasu said:


> I have a friend that has one of those new-fangled "one piece" toilets, that constantly has a loose seat. I'd rip that puppy off the floor and toss it out the window.... but that's just me.


I did exactly that to my mothers low profile 30 years ago.



The last toilet I bought I got it home and took a look at the bottom hole before I set it. the pattern mismatch for the hole was so bad that there were two sharp edges that just looked like a clog waiting to happen. I took it back and showed them and they gave me another and I checked it at the store and it wasn’t much better. I looked at 6 of them before I found one that was close to being right. When I got it home I tried to smooth up the rough edges on the opening where paper could snag and using a die grinder I managed to break the sharp edge. It is next to imposable to grind or cut the material it is so hard.



These kinds of features are a solution looking for a problem. Just a stupid idea.



On a side note that doesn’t mean our toilets are perfect. When in Europe I noticed the fill line didn’t enter the bottom of the tank. Instead it came in almost at the top of the tank above the water line. On the other hand in Italy the trap at the bottom is a different shape and no water stays in the bowl. Let me tell you that water in the bowl serves a function and over there you quickly flush.



For a product that hasn’t changed much in the last 100 years there is room for improvement.

Now I only buy Fluid-Master units that quick change and the seats I buy are the slow lower no slams with the quick change connectors. When I clean the toilet I snap the lid and seat off in 2 seconds and clean it in the tub and the bowl then is free of the seat to give it a good cleaning. Plastic bolts and nuts only.


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## Jeff Handy (Aug 21, 2020)

Those Kohler one piece toilets are also harder to set onto the flange, at least for me.

It is hard to grip and lower by yourself, harder to see the bolts to line up, and no option to set just the bowl, if you are having a bad back day.

They also don’t flush that great, the tank guts are crazy and expensive, and the toilets cost about $1,000.00 or more. 
New seats can cost well over $100.00.


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## Spicoli43 (Aug 22, 2020)

Well, thanks to this post, I'm not getting Kohler. In ripping out the toilets to do flooring, I really want to ditch my American Standards, which attract mold on the internal parts, probably because the flapper "platform" is 4 inches tall or so, while other brands don't have a platform. This leaves said 4 inches of water in the tank at all times, creating a chore to manually remove the water every once in a while because it becomes dingy. 

While it isn't as fast, old water in the toilet is the same as stagnant water outside, and an utter failure in American Standard's design, in their effort to be "green".


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## rbm328 (Aug 23, 2020)

interesting this thread just popped up.  we just moved into a new house (to us) and the master bath toilet had an old wooden seat - nasty!  the seat bolts were rusted on, the bolt heads were stripped and I couldn't remove the plastic nuts.  I used my dremel multi max and wound up cutting the plastic nuts off with it.
glad I've gone with the motto: NEW JOB - NEW TOOL!!  I might use tools only once a year, but its nice to have options!!


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## oldognewtrick (Aug 24, 2020)

rbm328 said:


> interesting this thread just popped up.  we just moved into a new house (to us) and the master bath toilet had an old wooden seat - nasty!  the seat bolts were rusted on, the bolt heads were stripped and I couldn't remove the plastic nuts.  I used my dremel multi max and wound up cutting the plastic nuts off with it.
> glad I've gone with the motto: NEW JOB - NEW TOOL!!  I might use tools only once a year, but its nice to have options!!


I never knew I needed a multi-tool till I got one. Now I wonder how I ever fumbled through life without one.


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## ilyaz (Sep 16, 2020)

Jeff Handy said:


> You can’t drill the porcelain.
> 
> Just order a new anchor bolt kit from Kohler.
> Call their customer service for help, the toilet info and date of manufacture are molded into the back of the tank wall.
> ...




Did just that and it took me about 20 minutes end to end. The only difference - used a pry bar instead of their fancy removal tool to pull out the old bolts. 

Thx @Jeff Handy


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## BvilleBound (Feb 24, 2021)

We installed a Kohler one-piece toilet in 2013.  The 'Quiet Close' lid failed so I tried to remove the lid bolts.  No go on one of them; the bolt was frozen.  I finally removed it and found that the anchor nut is made of aluminum, and the bolt of stainless steel.  This is very basic design flaw!  Aluminum fasteners should *NEVER* be used with steel or SS due to bimetallic / galvanic corrosion, which will cause the bolt to freeze on the nut.  I managed to separate them and found clear evidence of bimetallic corrosion.  I sent a complaint to Kohler USA; it will be interesting to see if and how they respond.  Attached is a photo of the frozen bolt after it was removed.  You can see the green annodized anchor which broke -- and the SS bolt.  Also attached is a metal chart that I sent to Kohler which shows compatible metals in green -- and pairs that will cause corrosion in red.  This is engineering 101 stuff.


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## 68bucks (Feb 25, 2021)

BvilleBound said:


> We installed a Kohler one-piece toilet in 2013.  The 'Quiet Close' lid failed so I tried to remove the lid bolts.  No go on one of them; the bolt was frozen.  I finally removed it and found that the anchor nut is made of aluminum, and the bolt of stainless steel.  This is very basic design flaw!  Aluminum fasteners should *NEVER* be used with steel or SS due to bimetallic / galvanic corrosion, which will cause the bolt to freeze on the nut.  I managed to separate them and found clear evidence of bimetallic corrosion.  I sent a complaint to Kohler USA; it will be interesting to see if and how they respond.  Attached is a photo of the frozen bolt after it was removed.  You can see the green annodized anchor which broke -- and the SS bolt.  Also attached is a metal chart that I sent to Kohler which shows compatible metals in green -- and pairs that will cause corrosion in red.  This is engineering 101 stuff.


The chart has aluminum and SS as compatible(green) . We used a ton of SS bolts at work (retired engineer) and we often used dissimilar metal nuts with SS bolts. SS nuts and bolts have a nasty propensity to gall when you tighten them then you can never get them off without cutting them or breaking them off. That's pretty darn hard with a 5/8" or 3/4" bolt. I'm guessing that is why they used different metals for the nut and bolt.


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## ilyaz (Feb 27, 2021)

BvilleBound said:


> We installed a Kohler one-piece toilet in 2013.  The 'Quiet Close' lid failed so I tried to remove the lid bolts.  No go on one of them; the bolt was frozen.  I finally removed it and found that the anchor nut is made of aluminum, and the bolt of stainless steel.  This is very basic design flaw!  Aluminum fasteners should *NEVER* be used with steel or SS due to bimetallic / galvanic corrosion, which will cause the bolt to freeze on the nut.  I managed to separate them and found clear evidence of bimetallic corrosion.  I sent a complaint to Kohler USA; it will be interesting to see if and how they respond.  Attached is a photo of the frozen bolt after it was removed.  You can see the green annodized anchor which broke -- and the SS bolt.  Also attached is a metal chart that I sent to Kohler which shows compatible metals in green -- and pairs that will cause corrosion in red.  This is engineering 101 stuff.



Interesting, thx. Learned something new today!


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## Eddie_T (Feb 27, 2021)

On my one piece Kohler Rochelles the seat bolts have plastic nuts that are accessible in the tank. They were purchased in 1973 and I did hate paying $100 for a replacement seat. However If a toilet can be considered good looking they are the prettiest I have ever seen.


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## BvilleBound (Feb 28, 2021)

68bucks said:


> The chart has aluminum and SS as compatible(green) . We used a ton of SS bolts at work (retired engineer) and we often used dissimilar metal nuts with SS bolts. SS nuts and bolts have a nasty propensity to gall when you tighten them then you can never get them off without cutting them or breaking them off. That's pretty darn hard with a 5/8" or 3/4" bolt. I'm guessing that is why they used different metals for the nut and bolt.



Dear 68Bucks:  It appears that you misread the galvanic / bimetallic chart.  Aluminum and steel / stainless steel are red, indicating that corrosion will occur.  Attached is another copy of the chart with blue arrows highlighting the intersection.  Kohler engineers made a very basic Engineering 101 error.   If you check their website, notes about the seat anchors / bolts talks about corrosive cleaning agents leaking down around the bolt and causing corrosion.  They appear to have misunderstood the problem they created.


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## 68bucks (Feb 28, 2021)

BvilleBound said:


> Dear 68Bucks:  It appears that you misread the galvanic / bimetallic chart.  Aluminum and steel / stainless steel are red, indicating that corrosion will occur.  Attached is another copy of the chart with blue arrows highlighting the intersection.  Kohler engineers made a very basic Engineering 101 error.   If you check their website, notes about the seat anchors / bolts talks about corrosive cleaning agents leaking down around the bolt and causing corrosion.  They appear to have misunderstood the problem they created.


I see what your indicating, this table is sort of strange now that I look at it. I just went down the left side found SS and went down from the top under aluminum to the place I circled.


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## BuzzLOL (Feb 28, 2021)

BvilleBound said:


> the bolt was frozen.  I finally removed it and found that the anchor nut is made of aluminum, and the bolt of stainless steel.  This is very basic design flaw!  Aluminum fasteners should *NEVER* be used with steel or SS due to bimetallic / galvanic corrosion, which will cause the bolt to freeze on the nut.



I would have checked a Kohler seat in the store to see if Kohler did that or a repairperson/installer did that...


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## BuzzLOL (Feb 28, 2021)

68bucks said:


> The chart has aluminum and SS as compatible(green) .



Urine spray makes toilets/seats an extremely corrosive environment... S.S. bolts and S.S. nuts with nylon locking inserts would be fine since you don't have to tighten them much on a toilet...


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## Eddie_T (Feb 28, 2021)

What I hate are those Chinese bolts and lift wires that are aluminum or something else plated to look like brass.


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## BuzzLOL (Mar 1, 2021)

Eddie_T said:


> What I hate are those Chinese bolts and lift wires that are aluminum or something else plated to look like brass.



Hard to believe plated parts can be made for less than simply using the real material...


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## Eddie_T (Mar 1, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> Urine spray makes toilets/seats an extremely corrosive environment... S.S. bolts and S.S. nuts with nylon locking inserts would be fine since you don't have to tighten them much on a toilet...


Now that I have to scrub the toilet I find the sitting position to be best for all functions.


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## 68bucks (Mar 1, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> Hard to believe plated parts can be made for less than simply using the real material...


Know what I hate? Plated plastic parts. Not really plated but they make plastic parts on stuff that has chrome sort of stuff on it.


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## BvilleBound (Mar 5, 2021)

I just received a new 84999 Kohler toilet seat anchor / bolt replacement kit.  I hoped that they fixed the basic problem with an aluminum anchor and stainless steel bolt -- which are never supposed to be used together and cause galvanic corrosion.  Nope!  The new kits have the same problem!  I notified Kohler and sent them all of the info; a PDF copy of the letter with photos is attached below.  No reply yet.  This is a very basic Engineering 101 error.


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