# invention feedback appreciated



## joblake326 (Jul 8, 2010)

Hi,
Just to be clear: I'm not trying to use this forum to sell anything. All I'm looking for is honest feedback about my invention. I'm still in the process of deciding if I want to license it to a manufacturer or to just build them myself. So if you want to check out my video, go to my website at The StudTHUD. Let me know what you think: good or bad. I figure if anyone would be able to rate its potential it would the folks that come to these home repair websites.
Thanks!
John


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## granite-girl (Jul 9, 2010)

I want one ! And jr. too ! 
Great video- really professional looking.


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## Launchpad (Jul 15, 2010)

That is a great, and simple, invention. Those would save me a lot of time, money and cussing. Are they available for sale now?


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## joblake326 (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi Launchpad,
I'm still making them in my garage...looking to start manufacturing asap.  I'm just trying to get a feel from folks like you as to the success I'm going to have selling them


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jul 16, 2010)

I've got a Pentium III with a 56K dial-up modem, so downloading video for me is like watching grass grow.  Can someone describe this invention and why it's better than existing methods?


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## joblake326 (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Nestor,
A 56K dial-up modem?  How do you sleep at night? ; )

What follows is a sale pitch---so pardon the hype.  But maybe it will kind of answer your question.  If you want anymore info feel free to email directly: [email protected].

Okay.  Take a deep breath.  Here it comes....
The StudTHUD® is a product that I started working on almost 2 years
ago.  I do home repairs and was frustrated by all the fancy looking yet disappointing products that were on the market to find wall studs.  I kept buying different ones with the hope that they'd finally get it right.  But I soon concluded that the (electronic) technology used by all of these things, although they look good, would never allow you to know for sure what was on the other side of that wall.  The market is simply flooded with these things.

So I set out to come up with a "better mouse trap", a non-electronic; i.e. magnetic stud finder that would eliminate the guess work that has become synonymous with ALL of these electronic devices.  Folks just buy them because that's all there is.  There are a few obscure simple magnetic ones out there but 95% of what you'll find in the stores are of the electronic variety....meaning that they can only make an educated guess at where there might be a stud.

I know this sounds self serving but the honest truth is that everyone who has tried my StudTHUD® has been blown away as to how simple it is compared to the competition.  They all think that it's a winner.  By their enthusiasm, they've been instrumental in keeping me motivated and have pushed me to get it patented and marketed so they can eventually buy one.

I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago because when you work on something day in and day out,  the novelty wears off and it doesn't seem all that great.  You'll see a couple of those people in my video.  Their reactions are genuine.

As far as the stud finding market in general, there is definitely an equal interest between women and men.  Before I got into this project, I didn't have any idea as to how many people not only know what a stud finder is but actually have one somewhere that they either don't like or can't understand.

A simple, easy to use and 100% accurate product like this, if
effectively marketed, will eventually render the competition obsolete.

Virtually everyone over the age of 16 knows what a stud finder is and each of these people will need to buy one sooner or later.  As it stands now, they won't know what they are going to purchase until they go to the store and buy whatever is carried.

There is none that stands out above the rest.  They all have the same lackluster reputation: they are an exercise in trial and error; a.k.a. frustration.

Not one of them can guarantee that when you drill a hole in the wall that there will really be a stud there.

"There's gotta be a better way!!!"

The StudTHUD®  is the answer.  In the future, when folks think about what they need to find a stud, they will think "StudTHUD®" and won't leave the store with anything else.

Just look at the reviews for what's currently out there and you'll see that folks are looking for a stud finder that finally lives up to its name.

I believe that the StudTHUD® will become the "Kleenex" or "Xerox" of the stud finder world.


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## Launchpad (Jul 16, 2010)

I definitely want some. The one that marks the screw head is what I would buy a bucket full of. I rip so much drywall at work that knowing where I can dig out a screw head to pull full panels would be nothing short of a religious experience for me.

The other one wouldn't really do much for me, or replace my old stud finder when I'm doing a restoration project or some other renovation. I just need a little more accuracy then finding a screw or nail head in some areas.

BUT- I can definitely see a huge market for people looking for a cheap, easy way to hang pictures and the occasional shelf or two. My wife would love them! Plus they are just the right size to lose and make a guy run out to Wal- Mart or Home Depot to buy a few more. It's just a great idea that I wish I would have thought of so I could retire at the ripe old age of 35......

Seriously, as soon as you get enough of them ones that mark the screw heads together, I'm good for a couple of hundred bucks worth of them. Great idea.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 16, 2010)

joblake326 said:


> a non-electronic; i.e. magnetic stud finder that would eliminate the guess work


Unless you have the resources of Zircon-like company this doesn't seem plausible.


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## joblake326 (Jul 16, 2010)

Wuzzat? said:


> Unless you have the resources of Zircon-like company this doesn't seem plausible.



Thanks for the negative feedback.


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## joblake326 (Jul 16, 2010)

Launchpad said:


> Seriously, as soon as you get enough of them....Great idea.


Send me an email.  Maybe I can send you something to eval.
-John


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 16, 2010)

joblake326 said:


> Thanks for the negative feedback.


You're welcome, unless you are being sarcastic.


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## Launchpad (Jul 16, 2010)

joblake326 said:


> Send me an email.  Maybe I can send you something to eval.
> -John



Tried to PM you but your box was full. My email is

[email protected]

The rest of ya'll just ignore that, unless you want to talk dirty about roofing or something....


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jul 16, 2010)

John:

     OK, I have a $5 Stanley magnetic stud finder of the following description:







It's merely a pivoting magnet that points to drywall screws or nails.  One thing I like about it is that it has a large notch right at the pivot point of the magnet.  So, I can move my Stanley stud finder horizontally at various places on my wall to determine the approximate locations of fasteners by noting a response in the magnet and mark that location with a "V" mark.  Then I do an Encore performance for the audience moving the stud finder vertically to find the elevation of the suspected fastener, and mark that elevation.  The two "V" marks should then point to the location of the fastener.  And then I can move the stud finder over that suspected location and confirm it's existance by the unambiguous response of the magnet.

(I also have a Zircon Stud Finder for my gyproc lath plaster walls.)

What can the "Stud Thud" do that my $5 Stanley magnetic stud finder can't do?  This is the central point you need to bring out in your advertising because that's the question each and every one of your potential customers will be asking themselves.  Telling them repeatedly that it's better will fall on deaf ears until you can explain why it's better.  What will the Stud Thud enable me to do that I'm unable to do now with my $5 Stanley Special?  That is, HOW is it superior to other magnetic stud finders?


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## joblake (Jul 24, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> What will the Stud Thud enable me to do that I'm unable to do now with my $5 Stanley Special?  That is, HOW is it superior to other magnetic stud finders?



Hi Nestor,
Sorry for taking so long to respond but the forum banned me "forever" when they thought that I was trying to sell something...I thought I made that clear at the onset. 
Anyway, let me address your questions---which are all valid ones:
The reason that I invented a studfinder that does what the StudTHUD does was because I have used most of the stuff that's out there...from the electronic ones to the magnetic ones.  I'm only going to discuss magnetic ones since the electronic ones are in a _world of their own_ and that's all I have to say about them ; )

My first stud finder was the Stanley that you mention.  It was always my favorite because I knew that when it indicated that it had found a screw, then the chances were good that I was right over a stud.  The problem with it is that it is much too wimpy; i.e. magnet is weak and the mechanism is way too sensitive.  If you're on a wall that has the typical aberations such as little specs of stuff stuck in the paint, they will deflect the pivoted magnet and suggest that it has found a screw...which means that you really have to watch the thing very closely and make sure what it is telling you is correct.  It is also position sensitive which means that it works differently or not at all depending on how it is oriented.  Additionally the head of the magnet is very very small.  Which means that unless you drag it smack dab over a screw, it won't pick it up.  And lastly, due to the magnet's lack of strength, it is limited to sheetrock---you'd be hard pressed to find a screw underneath tile and it would never be able to pick up the presence of the nails in plasterboard or worse, in lath and plaster.

As far as the other magnetic ones out there, the best is the Magic Stud finder.  It is a very clever design.  It uses stronger magnets and its method of indication is unambiguous.  I came up with the approach for the StudTHUD without ever having seen the Magic Studfinder.  According to my IP attorney, although there are similarities between us, there are very fundamental differences that allow us to coexist without infringing on each other's patents.  I tend to think that the Magic Studfinder is limited to finding screws in sheetrock.  It might be able to pick up the screws under tile but beyond that it's not going to work.  

As far as the other magnetic studfinders, they are no more than big magnets that you rub on the wall until you feel the pull of a screw.  They're fine for sheetrock but that's about it.  You can't feel the pull of the nails under plasterboard or lath and plaster.  It's like trying to hold a magnet in your hand to find the North Pole.

So here are the advantages of the StudTHUD over all the other magnetic stud finders that are out there are:
1.  Ease of use: it's so obvious that all you do is ask someone to rub it on the wall to find a stud and wham!  As soon as they ride it over a screw, the magnet plunges forward and whacks the wall.  If you move it away, the magnet returns to its resting position and is ready to "thud" the next screw.  If you just let it go when it's in its "thud" position, it'll just stay attached to the wall showing you where the stud is.  
2.  You don't have to look at it since it can be held in any position and its "thud" will tell you when it's found something.
3.  It will find fasteners in ceilings and floors.   This is useful if you need to find out where the strapping is in the ceiling.  I'm not sure how useful it is for floors---but I guess a more useful variation on this would be to find hidden metal in wood that you're going to plane.  So rather than ruining your planer's blade, the StudTHUD, can be rubbed over the surface of the board and it will thud whenever it finds even the slightest piece of metal.
4.  There are no parts to lose. (Magic Studfinder has those discs) The StudTHUD has everything locked up inside of the housing.
5.  The size and shape.  It is small enough to stick in your pocket but big enough so that you won't lose it.  It feels just right in your hand.
6.  The magnet is 1 inch in diameter.  This makes it very easy to find fasteners since it is scanning such as large area.  Anyone should be able to find a screw in a sheetrocked wall within 10 seconds.  From that point, you just move it straight up to find more and then straight down.  Then move it 16" to the left or right to find fasteners in the adjacent studs and you've got a solid picture of exactly what is going on behind that wall.
7.  There are 3 different flavors to choose from:
The *"Lite"* which, like all the StudTHUDs has a 1" diameter magnet, but it is of a weaker strength.   So it is strong enough to find screws under sheetrock but beyond that you should get the "Pro".
The *"Pro"* has a much stronger magnet and is adjustable.  This makes it capable of finding fasteners in any kind of wall.  From sheetrock to plasterboard to lath and plaster.  To aid in the indication of fasteners, the body is clear so that you will not only hear the thud, but you can also see the magnet move when it is being attracted to metal in the wall.  This comes in real handy when you have no idea how a wall is constructed.  I was pleasantly surprised when I used the "Lite" to find studs in someone's condo and was confused as to how the "Lite" was "thudding" the wall.  It didn't make sense.  So I got out the "Pro" and it became very clear.  They had used steel studs that were mounted sideways!  The Pro, due to its visual and audible indication, allowed me to "see" exactly what was going on because the magnet's amount of movement was greater over a screw than it was over the steel stud!  Very cool.
The *"Mark Too"* has the same strong magnet as the "Pro" although it is not adjustable at this time.  It is unique from the "Lite" and the "Pro" in that it can find studs on either of its ends.  One end works just like the other StudTHUDs where it will "thud" the wall when it finds a screw.  The clever part is that once you determine which screw or screws that you want to mark, you just flip the *"Mark Too"* over and it has another, smaller magnet that will push a pencil tip out as it rides over a screw and will leave a mark directly over the fastener.  You don't need to look at it since it's automatic.

I've just finished up the final versions of the "Lite", the "Pro" and the "Mark Too".  I'm going to work out some packaging because I'm sending these out to be evaluated.  I've posted some pictures at my Studthud site.  So you can check that out to see how things have changed since last Decemeber when I did the video.

So, I hope this kind of answers some of your questions.  I'd be more than happy to send a sample to anyone who would seriously like to try these out.  So drop me a line at [email protected].
Thanks for your time,
John


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 24, 2010)

joblake said:


> Hi Nestor,
> Sorry for taking so long to respond but the forum banned when they "thought" that I was trying to sell something...I thought I made that clear at the onset.  They never responded to why I was banned.
> cool.



Your other screen name is not banned, if you are having trouble signing in contact TxBuilder, site administrator. You were only warned, in a very nice way to not sell your product. I for one think its a pretty good idea, and hope it wworks well for you.

Tom


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## mudmixer (Jul 24, 2010)

Inventor/marketer -

7 comes after 6.

Do you run out of words, ideas or time?

Dick


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 24, 2010)

mudmixer said:


> Inventor/marketer -
> 
> 7 comes after 6.
> 
> ...



Me thinks he ran out of numbers...


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## joblake (Jul 24, 2010)

oldog/newtrick said:


> Your other screen name is not banned.....
> Tom


Yes you are correct sir.  My bad.  I thought it was this site that banned me.  So sorry about that.  You were very nice about it.
Thanks,
John

p.s.
what's this 6 comes before 7 jazz about?


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## joblake (Jul 24, 2010)

Wuzzat? said:


> Unless you have the resources of Zircon-like company this doesn't seem plausible.



I guess that you must be a "glass is half empty" kind of guy.  Why else would you write something like this?


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## joblake (Jul 24, 2010)

mudmixer said:


> Inventor/marketer -
> 
> 7 comes after 6.
> 
> ...



What does that even mean?


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jul 24, 2010)

I don't think it means anything at all.

Cuz it don't make no sense to me neither.


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## joblake326 (Jul 24, 2010)

> Cuz it don't make no sense...


Are you talking about my explanation or the 6 comes before 7 comment?
I'm kidding.
So did my essay about the StudTHUD answer your question?
-John


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## mudmixer (Jul 24, 2010)

Sorry, but I saw your unfinished "essay" that was interrupted and posted before you had time to get around to completing it later. It had a "6" section followed by another "6" section that was probably incomplete although a "7" may have followed if it was important. Most computers have save and post features.

Entering incomplete or partial ideas is a very very bad thing when it is public and especially when it is regarding a patent since you can easily be a "sitting duck" for second and later moves if it works. Don''t sell/peddle before you have everything in order because proper marketing and exposure really mean more than a good idea.

That is the basis behind patents, patent protection and non-disclosure documents that are very basic.

Dick


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jul 25, 2010)

John:

I think you would be best advised to concentrate on the visual response provided by the Stud Thud Pro.

People are comfortable with visual information.  We rely on our eyes for 99.9 percent of the information we process in a day.  Having a magnet smack a wall to provide both an audible and tactile response is also proof of the presence of a screw or nail.  However, I feel that the VISUAL feedback the Stanley tool provides as you use it is an inherant advantage of it's design.  Being able to watch and SEE the magnet point to the same spot on the wall as you move the tool this way and that provides visual proof that there's a screw or nail under that spot, and we simply have more confidence in what our eyes tell us than we do in the information provided by any or our other senses.  We've felied on our eyes to tell us what's happening around us for so long, that we've instinctively come to accept visual information as the most reliable.  As a result, any magnetic stud finder that provides visual proof of the locations of nails and screws is going to be regarded as being more "reliable" and/or "easier to use", and that's simply because we trust what our eyes tell us more than we trust any of our other senses.

In fact, the novelty of "magic" lies ENTIRELY in the fact that our brains can't believe what our eyes are seeing.  There would be little entertainment value in "auditory magic" where we hear a train approaching but it turns out to be a boat.  Magic is where we SEE a train approaching, but it turns out to be a boat.

So, there is an instinctive prejudice to trust visual information as being more reliable, and the Stanley tool provides that visual response.  The only way you can overcome the human prejudice to prefer visual information is by designing a stud finder that logic dictates should work better than competing models of magnetic stud finders, regardless of whether it responds with a noise a movement or in a way we can feel with the tips of our fingers.  Our brains will only trust logic more than visual information.  That's how we know that magic is a trick.

All the rest are just my general thoughts and ramblings...

I think that you need to explain how your Stud Thud works, and why it's operating principle is better than competing studfinders.  I'm not hearing enough of that to convince me that there's a SIGNIFICANT advantage in purchasing the Stud Thud over any other magnetic stud finder.  And, without that, why would I or anyone else buy one?  And, of course, you're not going to get your Stud Thud taking up valuable shelf space in retail stores unless you can convince the store managers of that too.

I now understand how the Magic Studfinder works, and I really don't consider having little magnets stuck to my wall to be a significant advantage over marking the wall with a pencil.  I actually consider the little magnets to be a disadvantage because I can imagine them getting lost and my dog choking on one, and me just ending up using them as fridge magnets.

You're selling point for the Stud Thud were:



> 1. Ease of use: it's so obvious that all you do is ask someone to rub it on the wall to find a stud and wham! As soon as they ride it over a screw, the magnet plunges forward and whacks the wall. If you move it away, the magnet returns to its resting position and is ready to "thud" the next screw. If you just let it go when it's in its "thud" position, it'll just stay attached to the wall showing you where the stud is.



(From this I understand the Stud Thud to simply be a magnet suspended by elastic cords inside an enclosure.)

Sorry, but I just don't see an advantage there.  I see the fact that the visible magnet in the Stanley points to where the stud is as an advantage because if it points to the same spot as you move it over the wall, that's confirmation that there's something magnetic at that spot.  The Stud Thud sticks or doesn't.  It doesn't provide any indication that you're approaching a screw until it thuds.



> 2. You don't have to look at it since it can be held in any position and its "thud" will tell you when it's found something.



But, the user is probably going to be looking at the Stud Thud anyhow simply to see what he/she is doing.  Besides, if you get an audible and tactile response from the Stud Thud saying you've found a screw, you're first respose will be to look at it anyhow.  So, wherein lay the advantage in not looking at it while searching for a stud?



> 3. It will find fasteners in ceilings and floors. This is useful if you need to find out where the strapping is in the ceiling. I'm not sure how useful it is for floors---but I guess a more useful variation on this would be to find hidden metal in wood that you're going to plane. So rather than ruining your planer's blade, the StudTHUD, can be rubbed over the surface of the board and it will thud whenever it finds even the slightest piece of metal.



Well, underlayment is often screwed down, and then the screws will be covered with a cement based floor leveling compound.  So, I can imagine someone using a magnetic stud finder to find out exactly where those screws are and removing them prior to pulling up the underlayment.

But, any magnetic stud finder would be able to do that.



> 4. There are no parts to lose. (Magic Studfinder has those discs) The StudTHUD has everything locked up inside of the housing.


     That's an advantage, but it's not enough of an advantage to convince someone to buy ANOTHER magnetic stud finder.  Besides, the Stanley has everything inside it's housing too.



> 5. The size and shape. It is small enough to stick in your pocket but big enough so that you won't lose it. It feels just right in your hand.



C'mon man.  I'll concede that the Stanley studfinder is uncomfortable to sit on.  But, ergonomics is going to be a hard sell here because you typically only use the tool for a few minutes at a time.  You're not using it all day long, 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year where ergonomics would be important.



> 6. The magnet is 1 inch in diameter. This makes it very easy to find fasteners since it is scanning such as large area. Anyone should be able to find a screw in a sheetrocked wall within 10 seconds.
> 
> From that point, you just move it straight up to find more and then straight down. Then move it 16" to the left or right to find fasteners in the adjacent studs and you've got a solid picture of exactly what is going on behind that wall.



Yes, but even if it takes me a full minute to find that first screw, I've only lost 50 valuable seconds of my life because all the rest of the screws will be found just as quickly using any magnetic stud finder.



> 7. There are 3 different flavors to choose from:



Well, we only get to this point if the customer is convinced that the Stud Thud is better than all the other magnetic stud finders on the market.

I applaud your willingness to promote your product, but unless you can provide people with a compelling reason to reach into their pockets for money to buy the Stud Thud, I can't see any reason why the Stud Thud would be any more popular than the Magic Studfinder.  And, quite honestly, I had never even heard of the Magic Studfinder prior to your starting this thread.

What you might consider is redesigning a magnetic stud finder that has a powerful Earth magnet mounted inside a gimbal:







(or that floats frictionless in a small dish of mercury)

so that you just hold it against the wall and the magnet automatically points to the closest drywall screw or nail.  

That way, you wouldn't even have to search for that first screw or nail to find all the others.


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## joblake (Jul 25, 2010)

mudmixer said:


> Sorry, but I saw your unfinished "essay" that was interrupted and posted before you had time to get around to completing it later....


Hi Dick,
As I was writing my "essay" I was periodically hitting the "save" button not "post".  So I'm not sure if I DID hit post by accident or what happened.  But I did write the whole thing in one sitting.  I didn't post part of it and then come back and post the rest later.
-John


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## joblake (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Nestor,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my essay with your own short story 
Although I disagree with many of your philosophical points about what makes a good stud finder, I certainly can't argue the fact that I have to make a strong case for why anyone would want to get my stud finder instead of any of the other ones out there.
Thanks again,
John

p.s.
no animals, elastic bands, springs or duct tape were used in the making of the StudTHUD 
(and you're kidding about the magnet floating in a bowl of mercury...right?)


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## Nestor_Kelebay (Jul 27, 2010)

> (and you're kidding about the magnet floating in a bowl of mercury...right?)



...maybe an X-ray machine that could x-ray the wall to locate the studs...


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## joblake326 (Jul 27, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> ...maybe an X-ray machine that could x-ray the wall to locate the studs...



hmmmm.  Mercury and X-Rays to find wall studs.  You've really got some healthy ideas about tool design.  Just how "senior" a member are you?
Now I know you've been yanking my chain for sure.


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## SJNServices (Jul 27, 2010)

Why all this talk about finding studs? They're right behind the drywall. Rip out the drywall and you'll find them. It's easy. :beer:


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