# Should I replace my kitchen subfloor?



## jim bean (Aug 2, 2006)

Our resilent [vinyl] floor is to be replaced under a manufacturers warrenty, but the warranty does not cover replacing a subfloor [1/4 plywood, whatever].
The warranty covers other labor and materials.

The flooring retailer whom we have contacted to do the work states that our subfloor must be removed, that they do not do such work and it is not covered by the manufacturer's warranty. They have advised us to get a contractor to make the floor read for the vinyl replacement.

Our dishwasher was replaced and we were told that it had a leak. The seven year old vinyl began showing stains near the washer which we assume was the cause of the stains. The people who say we must replace the
have not cut into the old vinly nor made a moisture test. They have walked over it stating that it seems squashy, etc. The original people who did the work are out of business.

Should we accept the conclusion about the need for replacing plywood subfloor, or would you recommend that we contact another vinyl retailer?


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## manhattan42 (Aug 2, 2006)

The only thing that should need to be replaced is the 1/4" _underlayment _, not the structural plywood subfloor.

You might not even need the underlayment to be replaced. Instead, you may get away with simply fastening a new underlayment over the old without replacement.

I would consider myself lucky, if I were you, to be getting _anything_ from your insurance/manufacturer's warranty since the problem appears to be entirely your responsibility by way of the leaking dishwasher...and not taking any steps to correct it...

What you have been offered seems more than reasonable given the causes and challenging the decisions of the appraisers will probably net you less than you have been generously offered..


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## glennjanie (Aug 2, 2006)

Hello Jim and Welcome to the Forum:
Sorry my friend but Manhattan is correct. I would take up the 1/4" underlayment if I were you. The vinyl has a good bond to the existing underlayment and, if you try to just strip off the vinyl it will leave a surface too rough for the new vinyl and, If you try to add another layer of underlayment, it will show some little humps and bumps from the rough surface. The old vinyl has to come up so, you can get it up in 1 square foot pieces (if you're lucky) or you can bring the underlayment up with it and get pieces more like 4'X8'. When you lay the new undrelayment you should go to the floor specialists and see what they recommend. They will tell you what material to use, how to nail it and how to fill and smooth the cracks. 
Its a hard pill to take but I think you will be happy for a long time if you follow their directions.
Glenn


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## jim bean (Aug 5, 2006)

There is no fuss or problem between myself and the manufacturer. From day one they said they would replace the vinyl and underlayment and pay the labor. After walking over the floor the local flooring retailer said that I would have to get a contractor to remove the vinyl, underlayment and replace the entire sub-floor before they would lay the vinyl as they did not do sub-floors. Also, they said they would not send a workman out to remove the old vinyl [covered by warranty] then arrive at a determination of how much sub-flooring needed replacing by another contractor. They wanted me to have all this done and just have a new sub-floor ready for their application of underlayment and vinyl.  All sanded, etc. ready for them to lay the new vinyl.

I'm going to look around and try and find another vinyl installer that is willing to come out and remove the vinyl, then if needed let me pay for whatever sub-flooring is needed [all or part], then proceed to install new vinyl with new underlayment. I feel like the local flooring company just doesn't want to fool with this job where they will have no mark up on it other than the labor mark up.

As to the leak in the dish washer. I never new it was leaking until it was replaced because of a breakdown that made it not worth fixing. I had my clothes washer checked. It had a small leak, but no visual damage to the old vinyl and I doubt this leak got under the vinyl as the clothes washer is installed over the vinyl while the dishwasher was under the cabinet and it's leakage had a path to get under the vinyl and that is where the discoloration of the vinyl appeared.  The dicoloration is limited to just in front of the dish washer.

We were told by the vinyl manufacture that water damage was covered this time, but that if there was a second circumstance of water damage there would be no coverage. So, we purchased a new dishwasher and clothes washer, for correction of the source of our problem  and a new refrigerator and clothes dryer for visual purposes. I just don't want to contract for an entire sub-floor without having the opportunity of examining the sub-floor. So, again I am going to look for someone who is willing to withhold judgement on an entire subfloor until after the old vinyl has been removed which should be at the expense of the vinyl manufacturer. They offered that to me, I didn't ask for it. The local flooring people just said they wern't going to send their men out to remove the old vinyl then come back at a later date after the sub-floor has been replaced to do only  the laying of the new vinyl. Someone has suggested that removal of the old vinyl might take three men one half of a day. This would be at my expense per the local flooring installers.

The way this thing is going our kitchen will be out of commission far to long in the unnecessary complexity of the matter.


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## jim bean (Aug 8, 2006)

Things are improving. Talked to another retailer of the manufacturer who suggested I work directly with their sub-contractor who would remove the vinyl and underlayment and install replacement underlayment as required. Manufacturer advised me that they considered the underlayment the 1/4" plywood. The sub-floor would be previous layers of vinyl, the real wood floor, etc. which they would not be responsible for cost of removal or replacement]. There is a place in their proposal form for cost of handling required underlayment.

Manufacturer said they would have no problem with my directly using the installing sub-contractor their retailer uses. So, I see the this sub-contractor completing the manufactures requirement for pre-approved labor rates, removing the vinyl as underlayment as required and replacing the the same all in one trip.

I'll say this manufacturer has been most flexible and you people have helped me understand the task ahead. I talked to another flooring man earlier who would have been able to remove the vinyl and plywood. He opined that he sensed softness only near the location of the old dishwasher, not the entire floor. [I am assuming that there is plywood under the vinyl, but for all I know maybe the present vinyl was placed directly on top of an old vinyl floor, and I'm hoping the softness near the dishwasher is underlayment and not the old vinyl floor. I'll know soon enough.

I am really not excited about the original retailer that I talked to who at best suggested that I just call them when the old vinyl was removed, new plywood properly sanded was down, then they would install the vinyl that would then have to be ordered. Now, we will have the vinyl here and ready for the man I will meet with tomorrow who will handle the entire job.

Thanks to all of you and the cooperation of the manufacturer things are beginning to move.


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## inspectorD (Aug 9, 2006)

I did not help you personally, but that's what we are all here for.And thank you for participating and makin everyone feel good about helpin folks like yourself.

Stick around....maybe you can help someone next.


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