# Dumb girl with wet (finished) basement.



## jackria736 (Sep 30, 2015)

Hi all. I'm new so be nice. 
We just had a sales guy here from a basement "solutions" company give us his doomsday speech complete with 800 glossy photos of how disastrous our lives would be if we did not give him a check for 20k on the spot. Now I am depressed and worried and seriously contemplating giving him my life savings. 
I need you to tell me if this is bad idea. 
Here's the poop:
We live in a 110 old house, built amazingly well and beautiful, in upstate NY. We have lived here for 5 years and the prior owners completely rehabbed the house from top to bottom (he was an engineer with his own building company), including partially finishing the basement. 
Our problem is that when there is a rain "event" (read: not a normal rain, but a huge storm where it rains really hard really fast, or it rains nonstop for days at a time) our basement gets some water weeping in from the (stone) foundation. I have lived in these older homes my whole life and had really come to think of an occasionally wet basement as just part of my life, but now that we have a finished space it's seriously cramping my style. 
We have a "waterproof" floating laminate floor laid on top of plastic on top of a poured concrete subfloor that is all relatively new and in great shape, and the walls are done well: set away from the foundation and lined with plastic sheeting. We have never seen evidence of mold although I'm sure there could be some behind the walls. When water does come in, it seems to pool in one spot on the floor and then eventually makes it's way to the "drain" (scary hole in the unfinished part of the basement where vermin no doubt swim.) Last night was one of the worst nights I have ever seen rain-wise: it rained 4 inches and we had a puddle in one corner maybe 1/4 inch deep at it's deepest and this morning it had all drained away via a small trench dug into the subfloor that leads to the drain. 
I need to know what our options are. We have done a lot of sealing up cracks in the driveway and patio that border the house from the outside, and that *might* have helped. We have also run some gutter downspouts farther away from the house (a few feet) and that seems to have helped a little too. The house currently does not have gutters all of the way around, which we plan to remedy, but it does have gutters over the space where we get the most water flowing into the basement. Until we met with Mr. BS (Basement Solution) our approach was to continue to direct water away from the house, adding more gutters and directing the downspouts farther away, grading the mulch beds that butt up to the foundation and possibly adding some drainage (french drain or otherwise) along them. We run dehumidifiers like nobody's business. 
But Mr BS says all of that is a waste of time and we need to have a system that removes the water that WILL GET INSIDE NO MATTER WHAT WE DO. 
Any feedback? Should we just give him our money? Or is it possible to keep a 100+ year old basement *relatively* dry, or at least dry enough to have the finished space useable?


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 30, 2015)

First off  to House Repair Talk!

What did the other contractors have to offer for solutions to the water issues?


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

If he is saying to do something like what is in the photo, he may have the right idea. Never pay up front, get more quotes and think about how much of the work you could do yourselves as it is mostly hard labour.
Perhaps the floor can be taken up and saved.


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## jackria736 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks for the replies and the welcome!
I'm having a hard time finding other contractors that do basement work that are not these corporate outfits, although I am looking. We have had a lot of suggestions about drainage outside, better gutters, etc, all of which we are open to, if they will actually help.
Think they will?


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 30, 2015)

Very possible gutters and proper drainage away from the house will help, but that may not be the only issues.


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

It's always best to waterproof the outside and have a perimeter drain at or below the level of the floor but I don't know enough about that foundation to suggest digging along side it.
One option might be to remove the landscaping for 8 or ten feet around the house, slope that away from the house and have a trench at the outer edge. Cover that area with a heavey poly but a perferated drain pipe in the trench and cover the whole area with gravel. pipe or pump the water from that drain to else about.
That would look after rain water falling near the house but would not help if the problem is high water table.


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## CallMeVilla (Sep 30, 2015)

Welcome to the site and there are no dumb questions here ...  we have all made too many dumb mistakes to pass judgement.  

Two options.  (1) Interior drain system requiring a trench (essentially a french drain with pipes and gravel) along the interior wall leading to a sump pump which shoots any leakage outside.  Neal's pic is the Cadillac because it includes a tough plastic membrane to sheet all water to the floor trench.  I have seen systems which also had no membrane at all, relying on the trench (which is covered with cement) to drain the water into the sump.  This is a least expensive system.  (PIC 1 as an example)

(2) An exterior system using an excavator around the entire perimeter of the house, french drains, plastic sheets applied with a sealant, heavy duty plastic sheeting (per Neal's pic) over top of that.  Again, the water can be directed to a sump.  This is a very expensive option but fool proof.  It also means demolishing your perimeter planting and whatever.  (PIC 2 as an example)


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## jackria736 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thank you! That's super helpful!


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## nealtw (Sep 30, 2015)

jackria736 said:


> Thank you! That's super helpful!



Good luck with all this , there are people that do this work but anyone calling themselves a specialist just charges more and wants you to sign a contract today.


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## beachguy005 (Oct 1, 2015)

Always walk away from a deal that makes you uncomfortable.  Especially if it's coming from someone that comes across as a snake oil salesman.  You can always think about it and anyone that tells you the price is only good for right now, is usually lying to you.


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## bud16415 (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi welcome to the forum and thanks for writing an enjoyable informative read about your problems. 

I have lived in and been around 100 + homes with field stone foundations my whole life. Some are mostly dry and some are never dry and they have made it 100&#8217;s of years that way. Originally they were never intended to be dry living places most had dirt floors and were used to store coal and a furnace to burn the coal and a place to use as a root cellar. Yours sounds to be fairly dry and it also sounds like you understand the limitations of these old buildings. One question I have is are the ceilings down there high enough to make it an actual living space? Do you have plans to expand the living space into the area where the water is collecting? If the previous owner was a contractor it&#8217;s quite likely he finished the dry end of the basement and used flooring he knew could handle any dampness. 

If it was mine and it takes a rain event like you describe to get that amount of water in and it clears as fast as you said I would start simple and save my life savings for now. The point where the water was pooling is the low spot and I would cut the floor in that area and put in a drain channel over to the old drain that you say is working still. I might do a little exploring and see if I could figure out where that drain actually goes but it is working and I would keep it working if I could maybe have a company scope it and auger it even. The type of channel I&#8217;m talking about are plastic with a grate cover and are commonly used in front of garage doors. This will give the water a place to go and the drain takes it away. If the drain stops working I would ten put in a sump and pump at that location if it can&#8217;t be fixed. 

Lastly I would buy a good sized dehumidifier or a couple smaller ones and run them year round or as required. They are a pain to empty all the time so I would get the ones that can be adapted with a hose and send that water to the drain or to the sump and pump. 
These old basements will never be really good living environments unless you really want to spend a lot of cash or enough cash you could build an addition and get the same floor space above ground. You can condition the space down though and have a fairly nice room. I wouldn&#8217;t use it as a bedroom but as a family room or workshop or something they are fine.


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## jackria736 (Oct 1, 2015)

Thanks again. So it sounds like the best option is an interior system of some sort. 
Last question- if we were not in a place financially to do that (yet), are there any other things we should consider that are worthwhile to pursue?
Exterior drainage, gutter work, grading, etc?
Or interior, dry-loc sealing or something like that?


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## nealtw (Oct 1, 2015)

Anything that will move water away from the house is always a good idea.


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## stadry (Oct 11, 2015)

unsure who decided to hang hdpe waffleboard on the inside as no pro would ever do that imp,,, i'm from binghamton - shoot me a pm & i'll help,,, we wtrproof condo's now but i remember how the 'game' works for h/o's be it everdry, b-dry, basement systems, or even gawda'mightydry


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## Sdyess (Oct 12, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> Always walk away from a deal that makes you uncomfortable.  Especially if it's coming from someone that comes across as a snake oil salesman.  You can always think about it and anyone that tells you the price is only good for right now, is usually lying to you.



^ This exactly, and 20K even for the damage described is rather high.


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## stadry (Oct 13, 2015)

you can either waterproof thru full excavation & installation of a WATERPROOF coating OR you can manage the leak(s) by installing an interior sub-floor/open drainage system,,, NEITHER include any type of drylock product which is, impo, wasting time & $$$

your home's been standing for over 110 yrs - a few more won't cause it to fall down


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## nealtw (Oct 13, 2015)

stadry said:


> you can either waterproof thru full excavation & installation of a WATERPROOF coating OR you can manage the leak(s) by installing an interior sub-floor/open drainage system,,, NEITHER include any type of drylock product which is, impo, wasting time & $$$
> 
> your home's been standing for over 110 yrs - a few more won't cause it to fall down



1st you knock the dimper board, then you talk about sub floor over managed water, you're joking?


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## stadry (Oct 14, 2015)

i didn't knock it - only that a pro wouldn't use it inside,,, hdpe waffleboard/DIMPLEboard's primarily for exterior use to protect exterior coatings,,, unsure where you got 'sub floor over managed water' from (i only drink on weekends & that wasn't a w/e post),,, i don't recall if the bsmnt floor's dirt OR conc but, either way, an interior drain wtr management system's certainly faster, much easier, & less expensive than exterior excavation & waterproofing,,, no joke !  :beer:

our masonic lodge bldg in binghamton needs exterior work as the problem's been ignored for years to the point that the bsmnt walls have moved to the interior laterally about 2" over 4',,, that puts structural integrity at risk so dig we must !


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## nealtw (Oct 14, 2015)

stadry said:


> you can either waterproof thru full excavation & installation of a WATERPROOF coating OR you can manage the leak(s) by installing an interior sub-floor/open drainage system,,, NEITHER include any type of drylock product which is, impo, wasting time & $$$
> 
> your home's been standing for over 110 yrs - a few more won't cause it to fall down



So explain what you ment here. I expect you ment an interior drain just inside the foundation that picks up water from a leaky wall.


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## stadry (Oct 14, 2015)

'zactly right  :  whether open or cover'd back up w/conc, as long's the wtr reaches the pipe in the trench & exits the home, all's fine,,, hopefully the op can use gravity drain otherwise sump & pump will be necessary


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## nealtw (Oct 14, 2015)

So are you saying for a leak in the wall that couldn't be controled any other way you would have an open drain at the floor and let the water run down the wall and then finish the room?


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## stadry (Oct 15, 2015)

its obvious the place was never properly waterproofed NOR was the leak managed properly,,, take up floor, take down wall, & do it right OR live w/the consequences,,, it MAY be the water's coming UP thru the conc floor thru hydrostatic pressure,,, this won't 'heal' itself by piling more stuff on top of an mis-engineered or poorly done/insufficient repair


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## nealtw (Oct 15, 2015)

stadry said:


> its obvious the place was never properly waterproofed NOR was the leak managed properly,,, take up floor, take down wall, & do it right OR live w/the consequences,,, it MAY be the water's coming UP thru the conc floor thru hydrostatic pressure,,, this won't 'heal' itself by piling more stuff on top of an mis-engineered or poorly done/insufficient repair



Either the wall or the floor would need a perimeter drain outside first if not inside to a pump. If it is the wall, that is where you hang the dimple board down to the drain before you fix the concrete. That gives the water a good path and keeps the moisture out of the basement And that is how the pros does it. thanks


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## stadry (Oct 22, 2015)

i think so, too,,, exterior work's not that common due to MUCH higher expense,,, alternative's an interior sub-floor perimeter drainage system w/either drainage to daylight OR mechanical (pump),,, sometimes the leak comes UP thru the floor so that would need to be addressed,,, once the leak's managed, waffleboard down INTO the trench & frame up the wall


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