# Dual pole breaker



## tractng (Feb 11, 2016)

I have 2 (30 amp) breakers. The breakers are not tied to each other with the metal/plastic strip. Each breaker can be switched on their own. When my pool pump is running, if I turn one of the breakers off, my pump would stop. Does that mean I have dual pole?  Is this the case where the metal/plastic piece that trips the breakers is missing or some careless individual installed?


----------



## nealtw (Feb 11, 2016)

Yes that is dangerous situation.


----------



## beachguy005 (Feb 11, 2016)

Check your pump.  It will tell you if it's a 120 volt or 240 volt pump.  If it's 240, both breakers would be feeding it.  If it's rated at 120 volts then it's only a single pole breaker feeding it.


----------



## JoeD (Feb 11, 2016)

Does it stop if you turn either one of only if you turn a certain one off?
If either one can turn it off then they need to be tied together.


----------



## tractng (Feb 11, 2016)

JoeD said:


> Does it stop if you turn either one of only if you turn a certain one off?
> If either one can turn it off then they need to be tied together.



Correction.  Each breaker is 20 amps.

JoeD - if either breaker is turned off, then the pump would not run.  The pump is too old and no label to tell me the details. Based on this, most pumps on the market are 230v.

Can I buy the metal piece to tie them in or do I have to buy the whole breaker set?  Edit: Looks like there is an common tie piece I can buy or just yank out from an new breaker set.

We just recently had a new 200 amps panel put in and it passed inspection too.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 12, 2016)

They are not all the same so get the make of the breaker, someone that sells that brand should have them


----------



## tractng (Feb 12, 2016)

nealtw said:


> They are not all the same so get the make of the breaker, someone that sells that brand should have them




I read elsewhere that says I can't tied together using single pole.  It has to be 2 pole breaker since there is internal common trip (some mechanism that force the other breaker to trip in case one fails).  The more I read, the more I am confused.  Best to replace a 2 pole breaker.

reference: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=154201


----------



## slownsteady (Feb 12, 2016)

before you just change the breaker, make sure it's a dedicated line to your pool pump. I had a situation where we had two 20amp circuits (separate single pole each) feeding outlets in the house and then joining together at a J box in the garage to supply 220V for my well pump. If one breaker tripped, the well would stop working becuz it was undercurrent, but it was still getting 110V..........gave the plumber a nasty scare.


----------



## tractng (Feb 12, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> before you just change the breaker, make sure it's a dedicated line to your pool pump. I had a situation where we had two 20amp circuits (separate single pole each) feeding outlets in the house and then joining together at a J box in the garage to supply 220V for my well pump. If one breaker tripped, the well would stop working becuz it was undercurrent, but it was still getting 110V..........gave the plumber a nasty scare.




I know what you are talking about.  My current house, some white wires were hot (drove us crazy troubleshooting).


----------



## speedy petey (Feb 12, 2016)

*"We just recently had a new 200 amps panel put in and it passed inspection too." *

New breakers are not expensive, definitely replace it. In fact, it should have been replaced with the panel change. ESPECIALLY considering the issue at hand.


----------



## speedy petey (Feb 12, 2016)

*"I know what you are talking about. My current house, some white wires were hot (drove us crazy troubleshooting)."* 

It is not at all uncommon to have white wires used as hot in certain situations.


----------



## tractng (Feb 12, 2016)

Can someone confirm this is a Siemen breaker.  I know its not a Square D ones (I remember buying them and it was wrong type).

I am seeing E82615 which represents Siemen.  Looks like this one? at Home Depot

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Murray-20-Amp-Double-Pole-Type-MP-Circuit-Breaker-MP220U/202315523


----------



## havasu (Feb 12, 2016)

Murray is what I see.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 12, 2016)

Last I heard is Murray is made by Siemen.
I would pull it and take it with me.


----------



## bud16415 (Feb 12, 2016)

Do they still allow these?


----------



## havasu (Feb 12, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Last I heard is Murray is made by Siemen.
> I would pull it and take it with me.



They may be but when I went into to Home Depot last week for some Square D's, they were still listed as Murray's.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 12, 2016)

havasu said:


> They may be but when I went into to Home Depot last week for some Square D's, they were still listed as Murray's.



That's why I always pull one.


----------



## tractng (Feb 13, 2016)

Guys,

While I am at replacing the breaker, a lot of pool owners suggested I install a surge protector.  This is what they recommend below.  There are a few ways to install it.  I am looking at installing directly onto the breakers that are used for the pump.  So, I just hook the black wires to the breakers (one wire to each breaker of the 2 pole, the wire will meet up with the hot wire) and the white wire to the neutral bus? 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0052DMIUK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Install docs:

http://download.schneider-electric....p_File_Id=775822409&p_File_Name=8291-0014.pdf


----------



## havasu (Feb 13, 2016)

Having had 3 pools, none had surge protectors, but were all on GFCI. Whether they are unnecessary or not, I don't know, but I've never heard of it.


----------



## speedy petey (Feb 13, 2016)

*"Can someone confirm this is a Siemen breaker. I know its not a Square D ones"*

Those are Siemens. The angled areas where it says ON and OFF are telltale signs.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N5HG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## KULTULZ (Feb 13, 2016)

tractng said:


> Guys,
> 
> While I am at replacing the breaker, a lot of pool owners suggested I install a surge protector. This is what they recommend below. There are a few ways to install it. I am looking at installing directly onto the breakers that are used for the pump. So, I just hook the black wires to the breakers (one wire to each breaker of the 2 pole, the wire will meet up with the hot wire) and the white wire to the neutral bus?
> 
> ...


 
Do you still have the pool pump install instructions or can source on the internet? This will be about your best source for info (manufacturer's recommendations).

You need two levels of protection (IMO), one at the breaker box (lightning strike- utility company surges) and one at the device (akin to surge strips for the Computer/TV) being protected (transient surges).

Go Here For More Info- http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Inte...r-Pool-Pumps-Heat-Pumps-and-Motors/PS3000.htm

Scroll Down To- Intermatic PS3000 Data Sheet


----------



## tractng (Feb 14, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> Do you still have the pool pump install instructions or can source on the internet? This will be about your best source for info (manufacturer's recommendations).
> 
> You need two levels of protection (IMO), one at the breaker box (lightning strike- utility company surges) and one at the device (akin to surge strips for the Computer/TV) being protected (transient surges).
> 
> ...



The pump is so old that I don't know what brand (no label).  I saw the PS3000 when I was searching.  Perhaps a better fit since it can be installed at the device area.  The one I ordered might be to big near at the panel box.


----------

