# Used Hot Tub/Spa - Help figuring out what size breaker and GFCI to use



## jayrod (Dec 14, 2014)

Its a Vita Spa LC500 series. I believe around a 2002 model. Has 2 4 HP pumps and one small .06 HP pump. Big ones are 2 speed pumps. The label that I believe stated what size breaker to sue has faded away and I cant read it. How can I figure out what size breaker I need? Im thinking 50 amp would do. The owners manual online doesn't say either.

The wiring from the panel inside the house to the GFCI will only be about a 12 foot run, and then only about another 12 feet to the hot tub. So what size wire could I get away with on 50 amps? Thanks everyone.


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## Kabris (Dec 15, 2014)

It most likely is not over 50 AMPS, but you do not, however, want to oversize the circuit either.  I would say to try to call the manufacturer and get their recommendation.  You could calculate the size overcurrent protection in the NEC, but the code also states that the installer shall abide by the manufacturer's specs. So to be on the safe side I'd call the manufacturer.


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

I tried to loo for the number, but apparently you cant contact Vita spa


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## nealtw (Dec 15, 2014)

they do have a dealer locater
http://vitaspa.com/dealer-locator-2/


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## beachguy005 (Dec 15, 2014)

Have you tried contacting a local dealer through their website?

http://vitaspa.com/dealer-locator-2/


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

Ok Ill try the dealer then. Not getting my hopes up that they will even know. But yeah, my biggest fear now is over sizing the circuit.


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

Ok they said 50 amp. They also said use 6 gauge wire. I was hoping I could get away with 8 gauge on this short 12 foot or so run because theres already 8 gauge coming from the panel inside the house, and ends at the exact point I wanted to install the GFCI. It was for a dryer that is no longer there.

 Can I get away with 8 gauge on that short run? It looks like it will be a major major pain running new wire through all of the walls and brick Id have to go through.

Now from the GFCI to the spa I can use 6 gauge easily. Cost wont be much different since its such a short run I suppose.


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## nealtw (Dec 15, 2014)

( I think) 8 wire must have no more than 40 amp breaker.


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## JoeD (Dec 15, 2014)

#8 is only good for 40 amps. You need to use the #6.


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

I also read that short runs at 50 amp are good for 8 gauge. It seems some people say the length also plays a factor. I want to be safe, but man running it through the walls into the house is gonna be the hardest part of any of this by far.


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## hornetd (Dec 15, 2014)

jayrod said:


> I also read that short runs at 50 amp are good for 8 gauge. It seems some people say the length also plays a factor. I want to be safe, but man running it through the walls into the house is gonna be the hardest part of any of this by far.



If the run is too difficult to install inside the home then consider running it as an underground branch circuit.  A two feet deep trench and a run of underground feeder cable is all you need to accomplish this without fishing through the interior of the building.  

If you are looking for permission to install a fifty ampere breaker to protect a run of Number Eight American Wire Gage cable I'm sure that if you ask enough times someone will tell you that is just fine and that the code is excessive and whatever else you want to see as a reply.  Just keep in mind that they will not be living in your house.  Since the cable run is to be concealed you may want to consider if you want it to overheat, degrade, and eventually fault out inside your home's ceilings or walls.  Your the one who may have to wake up to the smell of smoke or not wake up at all.

I am an electrician by craft and a firefighter by avocation.  Which set of work clothes would you rather see me wearing when I'm at your home?  I would think that you would want the sticker on my helmet to read "International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers" rather than "National Volunteer Fire Council."

--
Tom


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

Going underground will be even harder than through the walls. Its all concrete even outside leading to the hot tub. Ill have to go through the walls then. Ill have to tear them out.


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## hornetd (Dec 15, 2014)

jayrod said:


> Going underground will be even harder than through the walls. Its all concrete even outside leading to the hot tub. Ill have to go through the walls then. Ill have to tear them out.



Post a picture of the hot tub's location and I may be able to come up with an easier solution.  A surface run of one inch conduit might be easier to do then ripping out walls.  

--  
Tom Horne


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

Ok heres my attempt at making reference pics. The red line is the wire and where it will be ran (inside the wall on the first pic inside the house). When the wire goes outside, ran along the brick I guess I will need PVC or something to run it in. But you can see its a very short run. Notice the main breaker panel in the first pic. The water heater is right in my way!!

edit - First pic cut off my wording. Should say "wire will exit this wall"

I should not the spa will be located recessed in the deck that's not really visible. Not under the stairs in all that junk (that I will be cleaning up prior to install).


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## hornetd (Dec 15, 2014)

jayrod said:


> Ok heres my attempt at making reference pics. The red line is the wire and where it will be ran (inside the wall on the first pic inside the house). When the wire goes outside, ran along the brick I guess I will need PVC or something to run it in. But you can see its a very short run. Notice the main breaker panel in the first pic. The water heater is right in my way!!
> 
> edit - First pic cut off my wording. Should say "wire will exit this wall"
> 
> I should not the spa will be located recessed in the deck that's not really visible. Not under the stairs in all that junk (that I will be cleaning up prior to install).



Go up rather than down.  Depending on how the overhead joists run you may be able to fish the cable to a hole drilled through the wall between the joists.  Once you are at the outside wall you run thin wall conduit under the overhead above and back down to the location of the hot tubs disconnect.  

--
Tom


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## Kabris (Dec 15, 2014)

That's a tough fish job, once you exit the brick wall it might be your best bet to run conduit the rest of the way.  You could also surface mount the wire, but it'll have to be transitioned to conduit once you get outside anyway. If you try to fish it you're most likely going to cause some damage and a lot of frustration.  As far as getting out of your utility room, see if you can go up inside the wall and get to the exterior wall. If you can, drill through the brick high and run the conduit along the ceiling...if possible.  Keep in mind if you run #6 through conduit, I would use at least 1 inch and make sure there's less than or equal to 360 degrees of bends in the run.  Not an easy undertaking but that's how I would try to do it.


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## jayrod (Dec 15, 2014)

Will I be fine reusing the 8 gauge ground (the one thats already been ran inside the walls) from the main breaker to GFCI or does it need to be a single insulated ground? Then have my new run, white, red, and black be 6 gauge.


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## hornetd (Dec 16, 2014)

jayrod said:


> Will I be fine reusing the 8 gauge ground (the one thats already been ran inside the walls) from the main breaker to GFCI or does it need to be a single insulated ground? Then have my new run, white, red, and black be 6 gauge.



As long as all four conductors run in conduit you could use the existing #8 AWG ground.  The National Electric Code requires that all conductors of any given circuit run in the same trench, raceway, or cable.  Individual conductors, that are not listed as cables, may not be run without the additional protection of raceway such as conduit.

--  
Tom Horne


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