# Help with type of concrete



## azsxdcfv (Apr 6, 2016)

I been trying my best to research this.  But having no luck.  I'm looking to do my own stamped curbing for my landscaping.   But I'm unsure of the type of concrete to use for this project.    I'm also gonna mold my own rocks from molds to make a retainer wall.     Yes I do know it's gonna be one hell of a job.  But I love the hard work.  Any one help with the type of concrete I should use?   Remember.  The curbing I am gonna stamp with a roller. Thanks


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## nealtw (Apr 6, 2016)

I don't think it is anything special. For stamped pads or driveway they either start with colored concrete or trowel color on the surface then they add a release agent and wait for a certain hardness and stamp it.


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## Snoonyb (Apr 6, 2016)

Trial and error!

Consistency of mix, small aggregate, dimensions, length of form.

Over 2'6" is considered retaining, under is generally referred to as a garden wall.

Will you or have you considered an interlock method, if retaining?

Instead of allowing the pour to slump are you envisioning a 2 step process.

Architectural rocks are generally hollow and formed around a mesh.


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 6, 2016)

The rocks I will be molding are about 2.5 inches high 6 inch wide and 11.5 inch long.  Gonna stack them interlocking.  Thought about trying out a more sand mixture.  Like a mason concrete for that.    As far as the curbing.  I never tried it. But I thought about mixing one bag regular cheap concrete and one bag mason mix to give it more sandy mixture.     Some people freak out when I say that.   But I'm up to see what it produces. And if it don't turn out.  I'm out what $10?   Lol


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## Snoonyb (Apr 6, 2016)

There are a couple of schools of thought regarding premixed and site mixed. Premixed is generally common cement and unless you also use a vinyl add-mix, will discolor from moisture exposure, where site mixed can use red label cement which is water resistant and slightly more plastic.

Using a key is a good Idea, however be cognizant of the height verses the width of the rocks, because you can come to a point where you reach overturning moment, caused by the pressure you are retaining.

Don't forget to firmly address hydrology either.

Also for the curbing, consider the ladder reinforcing used in glass block wall assembly.


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## mudmixer (Apr 6, 2016)

Snoonyb-

I think your "pre-mixed" is generally referred to as "Ready-mix" in the construction industry.

Ready-mix does not use common cement, but uses any one of the types of Portland cement (Type I, Type II, Type III and Type IV and the most common types). Ready mix is delivered to the site by the supplier and anything added to it within the truck should be noted on the delivery ticket.

There is no such thing as "red label cement", but bagged cement is is available in many different types or colors of bags. Colors have noting to do with "water resistant"properties since they are determined by the mix design, aggregate gradations and placement practices.

The key is common with all segmental retaining wall units (SRWs by specification), but it a part of the SRW units to provided shear resistance. From a structural standpoint a low wall is a gravity wall and the failure is a shear failure. That is the reason all SRWs have a designed lateral resistance in the form of shear keys or pins. - that usually adequate up to the common codes requirements that state that the wall must be engineered is it is over 4' or 5'.

I won't address the reference to ladder reinforcement, but you might be alluding to something like "geogrid" that is used for soil reinforcement by engineers.

Dick


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## Snoonyb (Apr 6, 2016)

mudmixer said:


> I think your "pre-mixed" is generally referred to as "Ready-mix" in the construction industry.



Premixed is a bagged product, mechanically filled by an off site vendor.



mudmixer said:


> Ready-mix does not use common cement, but uses any one of the types of Portland cement (Type I, Type II, Type III and Type IV and the most common types). Ready mix is delivered to the site by the supplier and anything added to it within the truck should be noted on the delivery ticket.



Ready mix, as you are referring to it, is transit mixed, industry wide.



mudmixer said:


> There is no such thing as "red label cement", but bagged cement is is available in many different types or colors of bags. Colors have noting to do with "water resistant"properties since they are determined by the mix design, aggregate gradations and placement practices.



Colton plastic cement is packaged in a red labeled and lettered bag and is used for stucco applications because of its moisture resistant properties, as is hi-early.



mudmixer said:


> The key is common with all segmental retaining wall units (SRWs by specification), but it a part of the SRW units to provided shear resistance. From a structural standpoint a low wall is a gravity wall and the failure is a shear failure. That is the reason all SRWs have a designed lateral resistance in the form of shear keys or pins. - that usually adequate up to the common codes requirements that state that the wall must be engineered is it is over 4' or 5'.



If the OP wishes to retain a 1/1 slope behind a 4' wall without eng., I won't be standing next to him on the down side during a heavy prolonged rain storm.



mudmixer said:


> I won't address the reference to ladder reinforcement, but you might be alluding to something like "geogrid" that is used for soil reinforcement by engineers.



Glass block walls use reinforcing rods in a ladder shape or single strands, similar to pencil rods.


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## Chris (Apr 6, 2016)

I didn't read all the replies but my old boss owned a landscape curbing company. We would mix up pretty much mortar. Sand, cement, lime and a handful of fiberglass strands to help hold it together. Then we could shape it, stamp it or whatever else we wanted to do to it.


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 7, 2016)

mudmixer said:


> Snoonyb-
> 
> I think your "pre-mixed" is generally referred to as "Ready-mix" in the construction industry.
> 
> ...





I'm only going to make the wall of a max 2 feet.  And it's only to build up going around the corner of the house for the current landscaping that is already in there.     Thanks


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 7, 2016)

Chris said:


> I didn't read all the replies but my old boss owned a landscape curbing company. We would mix up pretty much mortar. Sand, cement, lime and a handful of fiberglass strands to help hold it together. Then we could shape it, stamp it or whatever else we wanted to do to it.




Thanks for the straight forward easy reply.  Thought about this.  Cause Quickrete has it in there mix in the red bag.  But I don't want the large rocks in there.    But I will do a test run of a couple feet with this.  And give it a shot.   Thanks


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## Snoonyb (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks, clarification goes a long way.


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## slownsteady (Apr 7, 2016)

OP: I'm curious, aside from the challenge of DIY'ing your own "rocks", why you're choosing to go that route. Do you have a particular finish on the face that you want to achieve? In which case I would like to see the end result. And I would like to know what method of "interlocking" you're going to use for the blocks (I assume you mean blocks instead of rocks cuz' rocks are usually irregular shapes).


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 7, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> OP: I'm curious, aside from the challenge of DIY'ing your own "rocks", why you're choosing to go that route. Do you have a particular finish on the face that you want to achieve? In which case I would like to see the end result. And I would like to know what method of "interlocking" you're going to use for the blocks (I assume you mean blocks instead of rocks cuz' rocks are usually irregular shapes).




I have a greater sense of accomplishment when I choose to do things from scratch.   I've bought prefab concrete decrative stone to landscape my last house.   It was fun.   But now I want to learn a new skill, I love to learn how things are done and see what I can come up with.  I'm 31 years old.   And I am always looking for a new challenge with my hands and a new skill to learn.     And my new house landscaping just looks like someone through it together to get it over with.  They got river Rock with no way to keep it from going into the yard.  Just absolutely looks horrible and irritates me to know end.    I have included a photo of the rock retaining wall I hope to mold out of concrete.    Given I live I Ohio &#128580;  Gonna be a few weeks before I start cause winter and summer keep fighting it out on the same day lol.


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## Chris (Apr 7, 2016)

But bags of concrete, stack wall and soak. Soak for about a week then disassemble and take paper off and restack.


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 7, 2016)

Interesting.   But not what I'm going for there.   I also plan on using a coloring agent in the concrete


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## Chris (Apr 7, 2016)

try acid staining after you are done, the colors come out much better looking. you get several variations of the color instead of just the one color from mixing it in.


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## Chris (Apr 7, 2016)

I have stacked broken concrete to make retaining walls then acid stain it, looks pretty cool.


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## luciano70 (Apr 18, 2016)

Try not to put too much water and avoid bigger rocks in concrete mixture.


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 20, 2016)

luciano70 said:


> Try not to put too much water and avoid bigger rocks in concrete mixture.



Think I have decided to go wth a motar core fill mix.   It's Portland concrete with sand.  And I'm gonna add in some fiber glass fibers.


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## slownsteady (Apr 20, 2016)

Let us know the results (and some pics, too!)


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## luciano70 (Apr 26, 2016)

You have chosen the right mixture, however you can skip fiber glass. My personal opinion is that fiber glass is waste of money for projects like this.


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## azsxdcfv (Apr 27, 2016)

luciano70 said:


> You have chosen the right mixture, however you can skip fiber glass. My personal opinion is that fiber glass is waste of money for projects like this.





$7 lb.   can't really go wrong.   About 25 grams per 80lbs bag.   I'm ones who tends to over strength things &#128580;


Also guys will be a few weeks before I start this project before I start posting pics. Got side tracked with a couple other things.  But I will show my steps and finished product


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