# Some Input on Stone Veneer Job



## DIYer2015 (Nov 4, 2016)

Hello guys,

I haven't posted in while.  This past year, I had a fireplace installed in our existing house.  Since it involved fire codes, drilling through a radiant floor, bringing in a gas line, and all sorts of work that I would have to hire out, I decided to hire a contractor.  For the most part, I am very satisfied with that call.  I had the stone veneer done by a professional mason, as I wanted it finished by the time the weather turns cold, and I am in the middle of my busy work season.  This is also the center-piece of my home, and I wanted the stone veneer put on by someone with experience.  I was mostly away while the work was being done.  Now that the stone veneer is finished, I am mostly satisfied with the job, but a bit dissatisfied with a few aspects.

1) Mason did not use a scratch coat.  That is not an issue per se, but I attached some photos where I think using a scratch coat might have filled in the joint between the stone/wall and the joint between the stone/floor a bit better.
Q: Would a scratch layer have helped?  Is there any easy way to tuck point or fill in these undesirable joints?

2) Mason spent three partial days on the indoor portion of the project, instead of finishing it in one or two days.  The colored mortar doesn't match well in some spots.  I even provided a $20 veterinary measuring cup so that he wouldn't run into color-matching issues.  Apparently, the mortar was still mixed with a different recipe each day.
Q: Can the lighter mortar be stained darker to match the darker mortar?

3) The box of stone veneer has some generic-looking stones and some interesting unique-looking stones.  There is one large, interesting stone that is used THREE times on the main face of the wall.  This bothers me.
Q: Can one or two of them be airbrushed to give them a darker tone and/or alter their appearance?  Is there any trade that specializes in such a thing?

4) I assumed that when the stone veneer includes corner pieces, that all professional masons would understand that all corners should be covered with a corner piece, and that it is not acceptable to use flats in the corners. I came home during lunch to see how it was going, and noticed two corners with flats, so I told him to fix this as soon as I noticed it.  Though after seeing the job he did on the fix, I told him to leave the other corner as-is.
Q: Am I wrong to assume that flats should not be placed in the corners?

I have not paid for the work yet, only the materials.  I attached pictures so that you can see the details of what I am explaining.


----------



## nealtw (Nov 4, 2016)

If he was going over backer board the scratch coat is not needed.
Random is the hardest pattern to obtain. If I paid for corners I would not be happy with flat corners and all gaps should be full.
I can't comment on colours.


----------



## DIYer2015 (Nov 4, 2016)

No backer board, he used wire lath (mesh) nailed to the plywood.


----------



## bud16415 (Nov 4, 2016)

I will offer my honest opinion as that is what I would want to hear if this was my project. 

I have a different level of expectation and acceptance based around if this was a DIY project or done by a &#8220;professional&#8221;. If you had said this was a DIY I would have said nice work. Even if you had done it yourself and that was your best effort I&#8217;m sure you would feel good about the project and enjoy it for many years to come. 

I feel a pro job should rise to a higher level of acceptance and quality in all things. He came to you with that level of advertised expectations and I don&#8217;t see it in the work. it is not awful but IMHO it should be much better and you have every right to withhold payment until you are happy. I don&#8217;t see your complaints as nit picking in the least and if I did I would tell you so. 

The joints should all be finished and they should all match in color and how they are struck. 
The random pattern should be done in a way that it looks random and having the exact same stone so close to the same piece just draws attention that the stone isn&#8217;t real and it should look more real than that. 

Likewise something should have been done so that the thin side edges in the opening are not shown. This would depend on how the work was explained it would be done in the beginning. On the rare times I hire someone I make it abundantly clear in advance what I expect with these kinds of details. Then there is no question in the end. 

If he is a pro he should be able to fix all the problems you mentioned. The edges exposed will be the one area he might want to get creative with fixing. 

Let&#8217;s see what others have to say.


----------



## nealtw (Nov 4, 2016)

DIYer2015 said:


> No backer board, he used wire lath (mesh) nailed to the plywood.



I don't know , I always see scratch coat over mesh.


----------



## Mastercarpenty (Nov 4, 2016)

I've seen both ways and I've seen cultured stone come off- the stone separates from the rest- so I'm not sure it matters. 

As to appearance, if you didn't specify something it may be a sticking point but a real Pro will re-do it just to make you happy, but if more materials are needed that will be on you. The approach I'd take is to first reject the multicolored mortar and the corners and once that's agreed to be wrong then I'd address the rest. To fix the mortar and the corners will nearly be a complete re-do anyway so the rest will actually make the whole job easier, just demo it all and have at it. If the results are pleasing this time round give the guy a tip to help cover the extra work. 

And next time when you want a specific appearance give the contractor a pic to help avoid misunderstandings. That's something I always ask for when I'm not positive about what my customers want.

Phil


----------



## DIYer2015 (Nov 4, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> I will offer my honest opinion as that is what I would want to hear if this was my project.


I do appreciate it.



bud16415 said:


> I have a different level of expectation and acceptance based around if this was a DIY project or done by a professional. If you had said this was a DIY I would have said nice work. Even if you had done it yourself and that was your best effort Im sure you would feel good about the project and enjoy it for many years to come.


That's the impression I received, but I second-guess myself knowing that he is respected in the area.  It's a rural area, so good-ole boys club rules apply.



bud16415 said:


> I feel a pro job should rise to a higher level of acceptance and quality in all things. He came to you with that level of advertised expectations and I dont see it in the work. it is not awful but IMHO it should be much better and you have every right to withhold payment until you are happy. I dont see your complaints as nit picking in the least and if I did I would tell you so.


This was the first time I hired a contractor to do work for me.  My wife and I bought this house, our first house, two years ago and it was not a fixer-upper.  The only work I've done are things to put our personal touch on it and some relatively-minor home maintenance thus far.  I am not thoroughly experienced in these things, but I learn quickly and inherited my father's attention to detail.  I feel this work would be acceptable for many home-owners, but I agree that it seems sub-par for what is advertised as professional work, which you expect to be better than if you did it yourself.



bud16415 said:


> The joints should all be finished and they should all match in color and how they are struck.
> The random pattern should be done in a way that it looks random and having the exact same stone so close to the same piece just draws attention that the stone isnt real and it should look more real than that.


The company that manufactures the stone is sending me a kit that includes all the pigments for this color pattern and instructions on how to touch-up a stone.  Do you think darkening the tone of the duplicate stone(s) could draw attention away from it?  Or am I wasting my time attempting such a thing, and should just have him knock the section out?



bud16415 said:


> Likewise something should have been done so that the thin side edges in the opening are not shown. This would depend on how the work was explained it would be done in the beginning. On the rare times I hire someone I make it abundantly clear in advance what I expect with these kinds of details. Then there is no question in the end.


I made the mistake of trusting the "expert" and thinking that his years of experience and talent would do the job in a creative and commonly-accepted way.  To be fair, I stopped giving any advice once I sensed that he liked doing things his way.  When I pointed out the error in the corner, it through off their momentum, and I got crappy work out of it.  In the end, I trusted that the "expert" would do an expert job.  Now I'm paying for that decision.  What is the "thin side edge in the opening" that you mention?  Is that the missing joint between the wall/stone and floor/stone, or something different?



bud16415 said:


> If he is a pro he should be able to fix all the problems you mentioned. The edges exposed will be the one area he might want to get creative with fixing. Lets see what others have to say.


As I said, I didn't care for the way he fixed one of the corners, so I'm hesitant to have him come back at all.  I am going to talk with the GC after the weekend, and see how he suggests handling it.  Depending on what he suggests, I might negotiate a discount, opt to fix it myself and save myself some frustration, or hire a different mason to fix it up.


----------



## bud16415 (Nov 5, 2016)

If the work all went thru a GC and the stone work was a sub, by all means yes you should be talking to the GC about this.


----------

