# Breaker keeps tripping



## Dennisrl (Feb 6, 2017)

In the past few months a breaker keeps tripping in my house. The house is only about 4 1/2 years old and the breaker covers my entire office the laundry room outlet (not the washer and dryer) as well as a garage outlet that is only used when I am working in the garage.

I used a receptacle tester today and found that all of the outlets are working properly. I removed outlet covers and don't see any moisture or water or signs of such (wet baseboards, drywall, etc).

The circuit typically has a light / fan (wired to the outlet switch), LED TV,  desktop printer, AT&T internet and cable box and modem and XBOX One video game system on one power strip, work laptop, desktop printer, small paper shredder, desktop computer monitor on a 2nd power strip. Occasionally there might be a AA battery charger or rechargeable flashlight plugged in temporarily. I wouldn't think this could overload the system.

The problem has been occurring for about 4-5 weeks. I am 99.9% certain that every time it has tripped I was playing video games on the XBOX ONE. The problem also seems to have started around the same time I switched to AT%T and they installed the box / modem AND I moved the XBOX from the living room. I did call AT&T, they came, replaced the box and said the problem was not their equipment.

I have taken a power strip and run in to the adjacent bathroom that utilizes a different breaker, played video games all night and had no problems. 

What are my options? Is the easiest thing to just replace the power unit for the XBOX?

I am slightly worried now that they breaker has tripped probably upwards of 30 times since it has been occurring. I understand that this could be putting large stress on the circuit itself. The employee at Lowes told me not to waste my money replacing the circuit because he says it is obvious the problem is the XBOX.


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## nealtw (Feb 6, 2017)

Add up all the watts that everything is drawing that are on when the breaker trips. Divide that number by 120 and that is the number of amps you are drawing.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 6, 2017)

Which should not exceed 80% of the breaker rating.

Where is the room you are "playing" in, in the general house layout?

Is there a basement?

Are all the recep. in the room on the same breaker?


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## JoeD (Feb 6, 2017)

> Which should not exceed 80% of the breaker rating.


Which has totally no effect on if the breaker is tripping and does not apply by code for the loads specified.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 6, 2017)

JoeD said:


> Which has totally no effect on if the breaker is tripping and does not apply by code for the loads specified.



So, if the breaker is a 20AMP and the calculated load is only 19.5amps, yet upon a surge, the breaker fails, it wouldn't be prudent too, in practice, to have limited the max. load to 16amps, which is general practice?


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## DFBonnett (Feb 6, 2017)

FWIW, I had the same problem some years back at my mother's house. 
Vacuum cleaner would trip one circuit but not another. A new breaker was the fix.


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## kok328 (Feb 6, 2017)

first, if this circuit includes an outlet in garage then there has to be a GFIC somewhere in the mix (though not relevant here, just saying).
I realize all the equipment on one circuit but, would assume rarely if ever are ALL these appliances running at the same time.
Moving the Xbox to a different circuit was a good idea and has revealed a possible source of frustration but, don't let coincidence lead you to the incorrect conclusion.
Although maybe the xbox is the proverbial straw that is breaking the camels back.
So, if your comfortable working in a breaker panel, do this:
turn off the main breaker
remove the wire (not the breaker) from the offending breaker and swap it with another breaker of same amp rating, turn you main back on, move the xbox back to where it originally was and see what happens. and post back the results if you do this.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 7, 2017)

One "key" question please. You say "breaker". Do you know if it is a regular breaker or does it have a test button one it? It could be a GFCI breaker since it does feed an outside receptacle; thus there is a ground fault in that outside box. Also it could be an AFCI breaker. I don't think it is one of the things you are plugging in like the xbox etc. I think it is more like an issue with a receptacle. One thing to remember is that if it is a AFCI or GFCI breaker the breaker monitors everything from the breaker on down; either AFCI for combination series and parallel faults and GFCI for ground faults (this includes all the connections, romex, everything).

Since this is a moderately new house and this is an office space I would almost bet it is an AFCI breaker (and if it is not it should have been) and something is tripping it. Cheap power strips due tend to trip these types of breakers.


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## Dennisrl (Feb 7, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Which should not exceed 80% of the breaker rating.
> 
> Where is the room you are "playing" in, in the general house layout?
> 
> ...


 

It is against the garage and shares a wall with another bedroom. There is no basement (I'm in FL).


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## Dennisrl (Feb 7, 2017)

It is not a GFCI breaker. They are not "cheap" power strips. They are pretty fairly priced good quality ones recommended by an IT buddy. They are not the big industrial bricks, but also not the cheap tool store ones. I have also replaced them thinking that was potentially the issue.

The receptacles themselves do not have a TEST on them. I don't know if it is an AFCI. I'll have to look when I get home.



afjes_2016 said:


> One "key" question please. You say "breaker". Do you know if it is a regular breaker or does it have a test button one it? It could be a GFCI breaker since it does feed an outside receptacle; thus there is a ground fault in that outside box. Also it could be an AFCI breaker. I don't think it is one of the things you are plugging in like the xbox etc. I think it is more like an issue with a receptacle. One thing to remember is that if it is a AFCI or GFCI breaker the breaker monitors everything from the breaker on down; either AFCI for combination series and parallel faults and GFCI for ground faults (this includes all the connections, romex, everything).
> 
> Since this is a moderately new house and this is an office space I would almost bet it is an AFCI breaker (and if it is not it should have been) and something is tripping it. Cheap power strips due tend to trip these types of breakers.


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## nealtw (Feb 7, 2017)

Look to see in the next room same wall if you happen to have an outlet on a different circuit.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks.

Is the adjacent room on the same breaker and are there a back to back receptacles?


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 8, 2017)

Dennisrl said:


> ...
> The receptacles themselves do not have a TEST on them. I don't know if it is an AFCI. I'll have to look when I get home.



You would not be looking for a tripped receptacle either AFCI or GFCI. That could be the case if the circuit was dead but the breaker did not trip. Your breaker is tripping hence there is a fault somewhere in the circuit. Ground, Arch, short, overheat. You know the breaker is not a GFCI breaker but don't know if it is an AFCI breaker. Both no matter which one would have a test button on the breaker. It could even be a combination GFCI/AFCI breaker since it services the office and an outside receptacle. If it happens to be a GFCI or AFCI breaker the simple test to see if it is a ground fault or arc fault causing the breaker to trip then (if you are comfortable with this) take the conductor off the breaker in question and move it to a non-grfi or afci breaker. If it stays on then more than likely that is your issue. Let's start at the beginning first before you go pulling out receptacles. Even if it is a regular breaker you may want to try switching the conductor to another breaker and see if it still happens. This way you rule out the breaker causing the issue.



Dennisrl said:


> ...
> The employee at Lowes told me not to waste my money replacing the circuit because he says it is obvious the problem is the XBOX.



Also, don't be so quick to believe what these employees say that work the electrical department. For all you know you got someone working there while the regular person is out at lunch and that person working there that you asked normally works in the paint department. They may know a bit but sometimes enough to be very dangerous. This also applies to Home Depot. I was on chat with one person from HD. I asked about upgrading my electric heater from 120v to 240v (in wall heater tied directly to my panel), this person told me since I was doubling my voltage I had to double my breaker from 15amp to 30amp, and since I was using 14 gauge wire that is good up to 600voltes, this person also told me that watts has nothing to do with it; REALLY!!?? You would not believe some of the junk that comes out of their mouths. Sometimes they have to just say "I don't know".


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## Snoonyb (Feb 8, 2017)

Before you attempt this procedure;"Let's start at the beginning first before you go pulling out receptacles. Even if it is a regular breaker you may want to try switching the conductor to another breaker and see if it still happens."

Sounds simple, doesn't it.
Have you worked behind the dead front panel of an electrical service before?

If not, post a photo and you'll be told what you can safely touch.

Or hire an electrical contractor, your life could depend on it.


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## kok328 (Feb 8, 2017)

afjes_2016 said:


> You would not be looking for a tripped receptacle either AFCI or GFCI. That could be the case if the circuit was dead but the breaker did not trip. Your breaker is tripping hence there is a fault somewhere in the circuit. Ground, Arch, short, overheat. You know the breaker is not a GFCI breaker but don't know if it is an AFCI breaker. Both no matter which one would have a test button on the breaker. It could even be a combination GFCI/AFCI breaker since it services the office and an outside receptacle. If it happens to be a GFCI or AFCI breaker the simple test to see if it is a ground fault or arc fault causing the breaker to trip then (if you are comfortable with this) take the conductor off the breaker in question and move it to a non-grfi or afci breaker. If it stays on then more than likely that is your issue. Let's start at the beginning first before you go pulling out receptacles. Even if it is a regular breaker you may want to try switching the conductor to another breaker and see if it still happens. This way you rule out the breaker causing the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, don't be so quick to believe what these employees say that work the electrical department. For all you know you got someone working there while the regular person is out at lunch and that person working there that you asked normally works in the paint department. They may know a bit but sometimes enough to be very dangerous. This also applies to Home Depot. I was on chat with one person from HD. I asked about upgrading my electric heater from 120v to 240v (in wall heater tied directly to my panel), this person told me since I was doubling my voltage I had to double my breaker from 15amp to 30amp, and since I was using 14 gauge wire that is good up to 600voltes, this person also told me that watts has nothing to do with it; REALLY!!?? You would not believe some of the junk that comes out of their mouths. Sometimes they have to just say "I don't know".



That's hilarious but, NOT. :nono:
I wonder if they assume liability for their advice?

Your approach of swapping wires with another breaker was also my advice but, I guess he wasn't comfortable working in an open panel.


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## afjes_2016 (Feb 9, 2017)

kok328 said:


> That's hilarious but, NOT. :nono:
> I wonder if they assume liability for their advice?


I don't know but the chat sessions do have transcripts. So they are on record but for how long I don't know. I even had a chat rep advise me to plug a 1500 watt space heater into a power strip; she said the type of power strip she was suggesting was high quality so I could plug in two space heaters in the strip and it would be safe. Urgh!! <Don't ever do this people!!>



kok328 said:


> Your approach of swapping wires with another breaker was also my advice but, I guess he wasn't comfortable working in an open panel.


So I must have not seen your suggestion. Sometimes there is just too much to read and I tend to miss something sometimes.

Yes, sometime the OP has to be honest and say up front if there is a suggestion that the OP is not comfortable performing that they have to say something. Or, there should be a warning somewhere as they first post advising them of this. But you will get those that think they can and may not realize until they actually go and attempt something that they have reached their ability and comfort zone; hopefully. You can get "nailed" in many other ways than just working in the panel.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 9, 2017)

Or, heaven forbid, the people offering the advice should take the responsibility to caution the poster about the potential hazard, instead of, just for expediency sake, assuming the poster is of equal knowledge and/or experience.

After all, they came here for advice. Provide it!


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## markfothebeast (Feb 27, 2017)

If you can borrow an AC clamp meter you can monitor the amperage draw of the circuit. I do this near the breaker while there's a load on the circuit. 

I found that our 20 amp kitchen circuit was drawing around 22 amps with the coffee pot, microwave, and toaster operating. This did not trip the breaker. 

The breaker may either have a defect or there is a fault in a circuit such as an internally damaged outlet, drywall screw through a wire, etc.

A 20 amp breaker is cheap to replace if you suspect a breaker issue (around $5) . Or quite possibly there's another unkown outlet on the circuit such as a microwave or refrigerator that's drawing too many amps.


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## slownsteady (Feb 27, 2017)

OP hasn't responded in three weeks, but just as an exercise in troubleshooting: 
The OP didn't say that the breaker tripped when he turned on his Xbox, but he did say it tripped while he was playing. So I would think that there is something else on the circuit that draws power intermittently - most times below the max draw, but not enough head room when the Xbox is on. I know this isn't the solution but an indication what to look for. 
Thoughts?


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## JoeD (Feb 27, 2017)

> I found that our 20 amp kitchen circuit was drawing around 22 amps with the coffee pot, microwave, and toaster operating. This did not trip the breaker.


Not unusual. A breaker does not trip as soon as it hits 20 amps. There is a time delay. The higher the amps the shorter the delay. It  would not be abnormal for a 20 amp breaker to hold 22 amps for 5 minutes.

If you look at the following trip you will see that the breaker can hold 2 times its rated current for 1 minute.


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