# Light Switch Wiring



## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

I was installing a zigbee light switch and it needed all 4 wires  connecting to it.  Then i noticed there were 3 sets of wires coming into  this electrical box that only houses 2 switches.  Then looks like one  black wire is powering the two switches.  Does it make a difference  which neutral wire i connect to the new switch?  Ive attached some  pictures of the wiring.  Any input on why its like this i would  appreciate any feedback.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

I don't know about that switch but I can help with the wires
One wire brings the power into the box. A second wire  takes the power to another location like another switch or outlet.
The third wire is the switch wire with a normal switch  A short black wire (pigtail) would run from the power wire from the group of two black wire. The black of the switch wire goes to the other side of the switch. The white wire would connect to the other two white wires in the back of the box. Unless there are more than one wire in the light box then something else is going on.


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## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

So the bare copper wire in the box would be the ground correct?  In the new switch i have the black wires in the same locations as the old switch.  Then connected one of three bare copper to the ground connection.  Also connected one of the 3 white ones to neutral.  Does it matter which white i connected since there are three of them?  Thanks.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

Normall there is no white wires going to the switch, best you post the instruction.


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## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

These are the instructions.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

Model number?, let's see if we can find the instructions on line.
Do you know how many wire go into the light box?


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## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

http://jascoproducts.com/products/ge-z-wave-wireless-lighting-control-onoff-switch


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

http://jascoproducts.com/sites/default/files/product/manuals/45609-Manual-Eng.pdf
Manual::
So you should have had.  2 black wires with a pig tail nutted toghther with the pig tail running to a screw on the side of the switch with two screws.
A single black wire running to the screw on the switch on the same side. Use the screws not the push in at the back.
A bear ground wire running to what should be a green screw.
The three white wires are wired together and you will need a white pigtail to add to that to run to the screw on the other side of the switch.

The white are common and all have to be joined together as well as the one that goes to the switch.
I hope that this helps . good luck You may need a larger nut for the white wires.


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## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

Ok i think im confused let me see if i got it.  So do the black wires stay the same as they were?  Also the switch came with a white pigtail so do i just add that to the existing white wires and plug that into the switch.  Also the only way the wires go into the switch are holes in the back that you tighten with the screw.  Thanks so much with this.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

That sounds like you have it.


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## texasman (Jan 14, 2015)

One last question.  My wiring is copper and the jumper is aluminum is that safe to connect to one another?  Thanks again.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

No replace it with copper. Check the switch to see if it requires al. Hopefull it has all steel parts the the wire will touch.


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## slownsteady (Jan 15, 2015)

There are specific connectors used to join copper wires with AL wires.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> There are specific connectors used to join copper wires with AL wires.



Is it safer to spend a couple bucks to get a all copper wire?


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## slownsteady (Jan 15, 2015)

If the AL wire jumper is assembled into the switch, you might just want to get a new-all copper- switch. You may be able to bypass the jumper if there is a terminal provided. i did not look at the instructions provided, so I am generalizing here.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

The AL wire is not built into the switch.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

texasman said:


> One last question.  My wiring is copper and the jumper is aluminum is that safe to connect to one another?  Thanks again.



Important: This switch is rated for and intended to only be used
with copper wire.
The homes electrical wires may be attached to the screw terminals
or inserted into the holes in the back of the switch enclosure
and clamped in place by tightening the screw terminals. Always
follow the recommended wire strip lengths when making wiring
connections.

With that I did a little more looking.

Make sure you have the right screws. The single wire from the light (black)
goes to terminal marked load the pig tail from the power wire goes to the line screw. Make sure that the white pig tail goes to the right screw as the forth one is for a three way  and should remain  protected with a warning label from the factory.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

Im sorry but im so confused.  So i should only have one black line going into the switch.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

You need eight inches of a single 14 ga copper wire with a white cover on it. Are you sure they gave you al. or is it tinned with solder, scratch it with a knife and see if it is copper inside.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

texasman said:


> Im sorry but im so confused.  So i should only have one black line going into the switch.



No you have two, but the screws are marked load and line and it is important that you get the right black wire to each. Power is line and light is load.

Frustrating aint it.:hide:


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

Im not 100% positive i do.  I kept it the same way as my old switch was wired.  If its wired correctly would i have power on both cause i tested it with my tester and both had power to them.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

texasman said:


> Im not 100% positive i do.  I kept it the same way as my old switch was wired.  If its wired correctly would i have power on both cause i tested it with my tester and both had power to them.



Ya that's not the point. Power goes thru the switch so if it is turn on the will both have power.
There is nothing to test here. The two black wire each have there own place and them must go in the correct spot.
On the back of the switch it will say line beside one screw and which you need to have the power to.
The other screw will be marked load the black wire from the light goes to it.

The white wire will go the screw marked common.

The forth screw came with a warning sticker on and should not be used.
I suspect that three screws are brass coloured and one is silver coloured and that would be the common screw.
They may have made there wire look silver to help guide you to put it to the silver screw, if you scrape it you may find that it is copper after all.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

nealtw said:


> You need eight inches of a single 14 ga copper wire with a white cover on it. Are you sure they gave you al. or is it tinned with solder, scratch it with a knife and see if it is copper inside.



It is copper covered in solder.  So im safe using that?


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## Kabris (Jan 15, 2015)

Yes it is safe, as long as there is a tight connection with the wire nut. Always give a tug test to make sure. If you can't get it tight, cut the wire back to the beginning of the solder and strip it.


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## Kabris (Jan 15, 2015)

Or use a different wire nut.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

I got it connected and the switch works now.  Thank you all for all your help.  Now another question.  I was wanting to add the same switch to my outdoor flood light.  I pulled the switch out and all it has is a single white cable and a single black cable.  That's all in the entire box.  Why is there only 2 cables.  Thanks.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

The power cable goes to the light first and all you have is a switch leg. I have another look at that.
Glad you got that one, It's so simple once you get it.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

texasman said:


> I got it connected and the switch works now.  Thank you all for all your help.  Now another question.  I was wanting to add the same switch to my outdoor flood light.  I pulled the switch out and all it has is a single white cable and a single black cable.  That's all in the entire box.  Why is there only 2 cables.  Thanks.



As is it simply is not going to work, The only option would be to remove that 2 wire and replace the wire with a three wire. Are you into taking walls apart.

Perhaps they have something different that would to the light instead of the switch.


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## texasman (Jan 15, 2015)

Definetly not tearing down walls.  I got the other one working so im taking the win and leaving it alone.


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## nealtw (Jan 15, 2015)

Found one you would install near the light and would work with your remote but likely wouldn't work from old switch, so you would need a wireless switch too.
http://www.digikey.ca/product-highlights/ca/en/illumra-wireless-3-wire-relay/94
Quit while you are ahead, would be a good idea.


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## slownsteady (Jan 16, 2015)

texasman said:


> I got it connected and the switch works now.  Thank you all for all your help.  Now another question.  I was wanting to add the same switch to my outdoor flood light.  I pulled the switch out and all it has is a single white cable and a single black cable.  That's all in the entire box.  Why is there only 2 cables.  Thanks.



I'm betting that you mean there are two wires in a single jacket. This is the most basic switch setup you can have. Get a basic single pole switch and it is as easy as it gets.
http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/electrical/switches-receptacles/replacing-single-pole-switch/


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## nealtw (Jan 16, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> I'm betting that you mean there are two wires in a single jacket. This is the most basic switch setup you can have. Get a basic single pole switch and it is as easy as it gets.
> http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/electrical/switches-receptacles/replacing-single-pole-switch/



The switch he has for is switching the lights with his phone, it needs it's own neutral.


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## slownsteady (Jan 16, 2015)

nealtw said:


> The switch he has for is switching the lights with his phone, it needs it's own neutral.



Lesson 1: read the manual (my bad).


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## nealtw (Jan 16, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Lesson 1: read the manual (my bad).



They make it clear that it will work with wiring already in place in the home but at no time do they mention that it won't work on a switch leg. If it dosn't say it on the packaging, it's just dumb.


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## slownsteady (Jan 16, 2015)

Not dumb from the manufacturer's point of view. They make the sale, and most people won't return them.


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## Kabris (Jan 17, 2015)

Nowadays most younger electricians always try to bring the feed to the switch banks, so there is a neutral present there.  It is simpler to troubleshoot, and it is better for purposes such as the newer electronic switches, which do call out a neutral.  The old school electricians liked to get creative to save on wire by running 3-wire to share a neutral or send feeds to the lights with a 2-wire to the switch.  This was fine 10-15 years ago, but with the code requiring arc fault protection throughout the house now, there has to be a neutral everywhere now, and not shared either.


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## bud16415 (Jan 17, 2015)

Kabris said:


> Nowadays most younger electricians always try to bring the feed to the switch banks, so there is a neutral present there. It is simpler to troubleshoot, and it is better for purposes such as the newer electronic switches, which do call out a neutral. The old school electricians liked to get creative to save on wire by running 3-wire to share a neutral or send feeds to the lights with a 2-wire to the switch. This was fine 10-15 years ago, but with the code requiring arc fault protection throughout the house now, there has to be a neutral everywhere now, and not shared either.


 

So are you saying that code now disallows power originating at the light? Also are multi wire branch circuits with a shared neutral also now disallowed? 

I was following this thread a little and I also at first missed that this switch was a special device that could be remotely operated. When I figured out what it was I just assumed it wasnt that it needed a neutral so much to work but that it needed its own source of power to keep it active and waiting to be turned on. The attachment is to small for me to really read all of what it says.


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## JoeD (Jan 17, 2015)

Code does not disallow power originating at the fixture. It just requires a neutral at the light switch. That means you need to bring three wires down to the switch instead of just two previously used for switch loops.


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## bud16415 (Jan 18, 2015)

JoeD said:


> Code does not disallow power originating at the fixture. It just requires a neutral at the light switch. That means you need to bring three wires down to the switch instead of just two previously used for switch loops.


 

What do you connect the neutral wire to?


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## JoeD (Jan 18, 2015)

If it is not needed then you just cap it off for possible future use.


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## Kabris (Jan 18, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> So are you saying that code now disallows power originating at the light? Also are multi wire branch circuits with a shared neutral also now disallowed?
> 
> I was following this thread a little and I also at first missed that this switch was a special device that could be remotely operated. When I figured out what it was I just assumed it wasnt that it needed a neutral so much to work but that it needed its own source of power to keep it active and waiting to be turned on. The attachment is to small for me to really read all of what it says.




Code does require arc fault protection throughout the house now, and anyone who has installed those breakers on a multi wire branch circuit with a shared neutral has discovered a lot of nuisance tripping.


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## bud16415 (Jan 18, 2015)

JoeD said:


> If it is not needed then you just cap it off for possible future use.


 

Wow thats new to me. Learn something every day. 

So the wire you run is it the 3 conductor red, black, white with a ground or is there some special wire for these runs? In a single box I cant see what the future use could ever be .


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## bud16415 (Jan 18, 2015)

Kabris said:


> Code does require arc fault protection throughout the house now, and anyone who has installed those breakers on a multi wire branch circuit with a shared neutral has discovered a lot of nuisance tripping.


 

So are most people now not using any multi wire branch circuits for that reason in new construction?


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## JoeD (Jan 18, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> Wow thats new to me. Learn something every day.
> 
> So the wire you run is it the 3 conductor red, black, white with a ground or is there some special wire for these runs? In a single box I cant see what the future use could ever be .



It's part of the new code requiring neutrals at almost all switches. There are a few exceptions. Also your local may not have adopted that part of the code, so it may not be a requirement where you live.


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## Kabris (Jan 19, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> So are most people now not using any multi wire branch circuits for that reason in new construction?




When I worked for a residential electrical contractor about a year or so ago, with new construction we began phasing out the multi wire branch circuits with a shared neutral for anything that was required to be arc fault protected. We also began running regular 3 wire (black, red, white, ground) to switch banks. We were following the 2011 code at that time. The 2014 code now requires the entire house to be arc fault protected.


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## nealtw (Jan 19, 2015)

It should still say something on the label and in the instructions, it's not like everone has or wants to rewire their switch legs.


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## texasman (Jan 30, 2015)

Didn't want to start a new thread for a quick question.  Just bought this outlet with USB built into it.  It doesn't have the normal connections.  My question is do you just group all the black wires together and put a cap on them and the same for the ground and white.  Thanks for any help.


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## nealtw (Jan 30, 2015)

Yes but the question will be the size of the box that you are putting it in. 16cubic inch size?


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## texasman (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm pretty sure it is.  Ive added one of these to another room but someone else put it in.  But he didn't say any problems installing it.


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## slownsteady (Jan 30, 2015)

you could always pull out the other one and see how it's done.


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