# How do I cover Rome's coming out of floor?



## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

This will be going in to a sink cabinet. You can see the fish tape sticking out of the conduit. There will be 2 Romex sticking out, that will eventually power a dishwasher, GFCI, and garbage disposal.

Do I need to get some metal conduit for this? Does it just fit loosely over the Romex?

Edit: The title should say "cover Romex" but my phone did an autocorrect.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

It should have been stranded conductors, in EMT, not romex, with the riser high enough to penetrate the floor of the base cabinet and terminated in to a 4" "J" box, where you then distribute for your use.

As previously discussed, powered from the same service buss bar, to avoid an unintentional 240V presence.


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## bud16415 (Dec 19, 2017)

Have you ever tried pulling 2 Romex cables thru a PVC that size and going around corners? 

Again you ask your question after the fact.


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## JoeD (Dec 19, 2017)

You don't need two cables. Just pull one three wire cable and setup a multi wire branch circuit with a shared neutral.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Have you ever tried pulling 2 Romex cables thru a PVC that size and going around corners?
> 
> Again you ask your question after the fact.



Haven't tried pulling yet. But I can see that 2 Romex takes up about half the diameter of the 1" conduit. I have lube. If it doesn't work, I'll find something that does.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

Make it easy on yourself, or learn the hard way.

You cam purchase stranded conductors by the ft.

No pull lube necessary.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Make it easy on yourself, or learn the hard way.
> 
> You cam purchase stranded conductors by the ft.
> 
> No pull lube necessary.



What is the equivalent of a 12-2 with ground Romex if I'm using stranded conductors?


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## bud16415 (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What is the equivalent of a 12-2 with ground Romex if I'm using stranded conductors?



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-12-Black-Stranded-CU-THHN-Wire-22964158/203401696


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## nealtw (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What is the equivalent of a 12-2 with ground Romex if I'm using stranded conductors?



I don't know types of wire but you can get away with red black white and ground, 2 circuits use the same neutral.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

nealtw said:


> I don't know types of wire but you can get away with red black white and ground, 2 circuits use the same neutral.



And the same ground?

In which case, a 12-3 w/ground would work.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-12-Black-Stranded-CU-THHN-Wire-22964158/203401696



Do I buy different colors? I would get awfully confused with 6 black wires.

How many? 4 (2 hot, shared neutral, shared ground)? 6 (2 hot, 2 neutral, 2 ground)?


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What is the equivalent of a 12-2 with ground Romex if I'm using stranded conductors?



Just that, 12ga. Black, 12ga. white and a 14ga. green.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Do I buy different colors? I would get awfully confused with 6 black wires.
> 
> How many? 4 (2 hot, shared neutral, shared ground)? 6 (2 hot, 2 neutral, 2 ground)?



A single grnd. 14ga green.

Decide how many circuits you are going to run.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 19, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> A single grnd. 14ga green.
> 
> Decide how many circuits you are going to run.



2 circuits. Each from a 20 amp breaker.


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## bud16415 (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Do I buy different colors? I would get awfully confused with 6 black wires.
> 
> How many? 4 (2 hot, shared neutral, shared ground)? 6 (2 hot, 2 neutral, 2 ground)?



I have pulled over 100 all red wires thru the same conduit whats to be confused about. Each wire has only two ends.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> I have pulled over 100 all red wires thru the same conduit whats to be confused about. Each wire has only two ends.



All from the same buss bar?


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## Snoonyb (Dec 19, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> 2 circuits. Each from a 20 amp breaker.



!-12ga black, 1-12ga. red, from the same 20A mini breaker, 1-12ga. white and 1-14ga. green.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 20, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> !-12ga black, 1-12ga. red, from the same 20A mini breaker, 1-12ga. white and 1-14ga. green.



What kind of covering does the wire have inside the sink base after it leaves that J box? I don't imagine I can just have wires loose underneath the sink.

Some kind of metal conduit?


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## Snoonyb (Dec 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What kind of covering does the wire have inside the sink base after it leaves that J box? I don't imagine I can just have wires loose underneath the sink.
> 
> Some kind of metal conduit?



Run romex to the individual points of use.


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## nealtw (Dec 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What kind of covering does the wire have inside the sink base after it leaves that J box? I don't imagine I can just have wires loose underneath the sink.
> 
> Some kind of metal conduit?



You will need to run conduit to a box in the cupboard.


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## afjes_2016 (Dec 20, 2017)

Heads up!!

If you do end up using "lube" for any reason be absolutely sure that you spend money for electrical wire pulling lube and not use some other type of lube not specifically formulated for electrical wire.

Reason is that some lubrication on the market is made of petroleum based materials in which over time will deteriorate the protective properties of the insulation around the individual conductors thus causing possible serious issues in the future such as dead shorts which may be hidden within the conduit thus requiring pulling new wire etc. And may also cause over heating of the conductors.

If you use individual wire you can use colored tape on each end of the length pulled indicating that one end of a wire matches the other end of the same wire. Of course mark the wire with the tape prior to pulling. Or if not colored tape use black electrical tape and make rings around the wire. For the hot, do two rings of tape. For the neutral do three rings of tape on each end of the wire. This way you know which is which. But wrap the tape securely around the wire. Don't make little tags with a note on the tag as they can end up being pulled off during the pull and you end up with no tag on the wire and end up having to chime out the wires to figure out which is which.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Dec 20, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Run romex to the individual points of use.



But just loose like this?

https://goo.gl/images/mEuts7

Surely, I need metal conduit.


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## nealtw (Dec 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> But just loose like this?
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/mEuts7
> 
> Surely, I need metal conduit.



You run more conduit to where you can bring it up into the cupboard where you have a junction box or an outlet and then romex from there to where you need it,:hide:


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## Snoonyb (Dec 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> But just loose like this?
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/mEuts7
> 
> Surely, I need metal conduit.



No, you do not need conduit.

That's the principal, neatness counts.

Remember the 1X strapping I had suggested to support the plumbing?


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## nealtw (Dec 20, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> No, you do not need conduit.
> 
> That's the principal, neatness counts.
> 
> Remember the 1X strapping I had suggested to support the plumbing?



You can run single strand wires outside conduit????????????


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## bud16415 (Dec 20, 2017)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-303054953-_-206874157-_-N


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## Snoonyb (Dec 20, 2017)

nealtw said:


> You can run single strand wires outside conduit????????????



Follow the thread.

He needs to terminate the pull in a "J" box, and romex from there.

He will also need 2 recp. in the "J" box, for the respective appliances.


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## nealtw (Dec 20, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Follow the thread.
> 
> He needs to terminate the pull in a "J" box, and romex from there.
> 
> He will also need 2 recp. in the "J" box, for the respective appliances.



I believe that is what I said, that first J box has to be off the floor so more conduit.


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## afjes_2016 (Dec 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> But just loose like this?
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/mEuts7
> 
> Surely, I need metal conduit.



No, I would not run romex like that in an area under the sink especially if it is for a rental property. I would use MC. This will protect the conductors better. Some tenants don't care what they cram into a cabinet which may end up damaging the romex over time and cause "you" more work in the end. You can also use individual conductors between the jbox and connection but you would have to use "greenfield" to protect the individual conductors.

Save yourself a headache in the future and install something that will protect the conductors.

Use 4x4 metal boxes deep enough to handle the count of the conductors and devices (if needed add an extension to the box) then use 1900's covers meant for their specific purposes or a flat cover if just a jbox.


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## Snoonyb (Dec 20, 2017)

nealtw said:


> I believe that is what I said, that first J box has to be off the floor so more conduit.



From post#2;" with the riser high enough to penetrate the floor of the base cabinet and terminated in to a 4" "J" box, where you then distribute for your use."


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## hornetd (Dec 25, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What is the equivalent of a 12-2 with ground Romex if I'm using stranded conductors?


The ones that will be the easiest to find at the Home DeSpot will be THHN/THWN #12 American Wire Gage.  

If you are under the unamended 2017 National Electric Code the circuits may need to be protected by AFCIs.  Since double pole AFCIs are not available do not use a Multi Wire Branch Circuit as someone else suggested unless you are sure that AFCIs are not required there yet.  

You will need 1 white, one black for each circuit if the circuits are required to be Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) protected.   You only need one green wire in the conduit. 

If your area does not require AFCIs as yet then you will need 2 whites, 2 blacks, and one red for the three circuits.  The code specifically forbids using a kitchen counter receptacle circuit to supply any loads other than receptacles.  So you need one circuit for each appliance and one for the receptacle.  That is Three circuits not Two!


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## SidecarBob (Jan 16, 2018)

Yes, you may be able to get your materials at a big box store but if there is an electrical trade supplier that is open when you can get there you are almost always better to go there. Among other things they know what the Code requires and they can tell you the best & most cost efficient way to do it.

When I relocated an outdoor light last summer I went to Sesco for supplies (their prices are about 50% what the Crappy Tire store they are right behind charges) and they told me that The Electrical Code does not allow the use of NMSC (Non Metallic Sheathed Cable, e.g. Romex) inside conduit (this has to do with heat dissipation IIRC). Unfortunately, while they do sell NMSC by the metre they only sell individual wires by the spool so I asked if I could just strip the outer sheath from the NMSC and fish it through the conduit and they said that was perfectly acceptable.

Re NMSC inside the cupboard: ANY electrical cable or wire MUST be protected from mechanical damage. That basically means metallic sheathed cable or conduit for any wires that are not inside a wall (if you absolutely have to run NMSC on the surface it can be protected by a wooden structure built for the purpose).

If you don't understand what the different wire colours mean and what the wires do I would humbly suggest that you not do this job yourself. It is too easy to damage your house, yourself or someone else (if not now perhaps years in the future) if you do it wrong.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 26, 2018)

Should the dishwasher be hardwired or plugged in to an outlet? Or does it matter? The installation manual gives instructions for both. What would an inspector prefer to see?

I pulled those two Romex through no problem with no lube.

Update: I'm connecting it to a receptacle.


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## nealtw (Jan 26, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Should the dishwasher be hardwired or plugged in to an outlet? Or does it matter? The installation manual gives instructions for both. What would an inspector prefer to see?
> 
> I pulled those two Romex through no problem with no lube.
> 
> Update: I'm connecting it to a receptacle.


Ours are always hard wired. I think the outlet is just adding more things than can go wrong. Does that outlet need to be gfci.


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## SidecarBob (Jan 26, 2018)

Ours is hard wired too. I think you would only need a receptacle if you planned on moving it occasionally but then again stoves usually plug in these days too and they don't get moved very often either.

Now that you have established that the wires will fit through the conduit you really should pull them back out, remove the plastic sheathing and pull them back through again (or get individual wires to pull through) because NMSC cable within a conduit does NOT meet the electric code. Then add a junction box at the end of the conduit (the box must be fastened securely to something solid) and run the Romex from the box to what you are powering. 

I don't know if code requires a GFCI in an outlet below a dish washer but I think I would want an outlet located where it could get wet if something fails to be a GFCI....


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## JoeD (Jan 26, 2018)

Plug in makes it easier to replace in the future.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 27, 2018)

SidecarBob said:


> Ours is hard wired too. I think you would only need a receptacle if you planned on moving it occasionally but then again stoves usually plug in these days too and they don't get moved very often either.
> 
> Now that you have established that the wires will fit through the conduit you really should pull them back out, remove the plastic sheathing and pull them back through again (or get individual wires to pull through) because NMSC cable within a conduit does NOT meet the electric code. Then add a junction box at the end of the conduit (the box must be fastened securely to something solid) and run the Romex from the box to what you are powering.
> 
> I don't know if code requires a GFCI in an outlet below a dish washer but I think I would want an outlet located where it could get wet if something fails to be a GFCI....



I did some reading about GFCI's.

Dishwasher should have GFCI. Garbage disposal doesn't need one.


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