# Glass Block Window for shower/exterior wall



## zannej (Mar 13, 2017)

I know that having a window in a shower is not the best of ideas-- but I've found some direct-to-stud surround kits that are designed to allow windows (& have coordinating trim kits). And mother dearest is adamant that we not lose that window or cover it up but she is ok with putting a tub/shower combo in that spot (and nowhere else- I've tried discussing other alternatives).

I have a looong thread on that bathroom reno discussion already, but I wanted to make a new thread to discuss this specific aspect so it doesn't get totally lost in the other thread.

I currently have an old single-hung metal window that sucks (it doesn't operate properly and it has horrible R value).

It is an odd size and I haven't been able to find any replacements that are the right size-- much less having the bottom panel be in tempered glass (IIRC, the glass must be tempered up to 60" from the floor)-- window starts at around 47" from floor. So, I was thinking I could use a glass block window with a hopper vent.

The window (with the wood framing around it) is approximately 22.75Wx34.75H. 

I'm trying to decide on what is the most economical of my options:

1. Go with a pre-made Redi2Set window (Rough Opening: 22-in x 36-in; Actual: 21.25-in x 34.75-in) for $181.22 +10% tax. Jamb depth 3.125". 
2. Make my own window using the Provantage system that consists of a 40 in. horizontal spacer, an 8 in. vertical spacer and  either an anchor and expansion strip or a 4 in. wide Seves brand  U-shaped perimeter channel. Spacer are positioned between each glass  block and held in place with REDI2BOND glass block silicone. 
3. Make my own window using Redi2Set system and blocks. These blocks are slimmer (approximately 3" instead of 4") but I think they might be more expensive and I don't know if the system is as detailed as the Provantage one (unless they are both the same thing using different sized blocks).

#1 is frameless & needs to have the top and bottom parts cut to fit while sides may need to be filled in a little) and it is supposed to be set with mortar on all sides (and I will need to put down wall ties to make the mortar stick to the wood). I will have to ask the manufacturer if I can use the Redi2Set glass block framing channel & spacer kit instead of mortar. I need to research to find out if the spacers go under the bottom, edge, and top rows or if the blocks are put straight in to the framing channels.

#2 only works with the Seves 4" wide block. Silicone joints are not recommended for wet wall projects so I will probably have to use caulk. I will have to find out if I can use it with the Seves 8"x16"  hopper vent. But, with the block sizes available, it will have to be wider-- with about 24"W x36"H rough opening. For the very top row and bottom two rows I would use three 8"x8" blocks (actual size is slightly smaller), two 8"x4" blocks sandwiching an 8"x16" hopper vent. My concern with this one is that it is fairly thick (and very heavy) and I'm concerned about the silicone being said to not be ideal.

#3 appears to have most of the same parts-- channels, spacers, caulk/grout, etc but I would have to see the pricing. I would use the same size blocks. I don't know if specific blocks are required and I think the kit is not available at HD but at Lowes (where things tend to be more expensive and it's farther away than HD). Also, it looks like I would have to build it in place and not just make a frame to fit inside and then slide it in (although, that might be better because a finished kit might be too heavy).

I wonder if any of these would require the expansion strips.

Has anyone here ever made a glass block window before?

Any tips?

Should I just stick with a pre-made window?

Not counting nails, grout, and tax, the second option would come to around $150. Tax would be an additional $15 or more. So, that is cheaper than the pre-made window, but the pre-made window would still need channels and mortar.

Is there an alternative to grout that is easier to use? It says I need "Acrylic polymer modified cement based grout", grout sealer, and #6 x 1" Flat Head Galvanized Screws. 

Also, it looks like with the 8" blocks the rough opening is only 31-7/8. So, it is wider than the existing window but not as tall.


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## oldognewtrick (Mar 13, 2017)

I don't have a suggestion about a window option, but I would strongly look into a flashing system similar to the attached video which ever way you go.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLVpQreNPeI[/ame]


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## zannej (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks, oldog. I'm hoping to not have to mess with the exterior part at all (although I might have to). I was hoping that I could tackle everything from the inside, but I don't know if that will be possible.

And I would definitely have to get someone else to do the stuff that involves using the peel and stick flashing stuff because I think a monkey with Parkinson's has better coordination when it comes to stickers and stuff like that. I always get stuff stuck to itself or to me or get it all out of whack. LOL.

I'm currently reading through this tutorial on the Provantage system.

From what I read in the official installation guide, I may end up having to widen the sides and buff up the top and bottom on the inside part and then cover up any differences on the outside.

I'm still trying to figure out what grout to get (or if I actually need grout). I'm hoping there is some substitute allowed that I could use that comes out of a tube.

And I'm going to have to search for the galvanized screws-- looked on HD and only saw zinc plated. I know that galvanized is zinc plating-- but it's thicker. So maybe I need stainless steel screws.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2017)

Just a few things to think about.
Any wood frame exposed to the shower side will be doomed.
The peel and stick Oldog posted will want to cover the gap from inside the tub to outside the wall.
The bathtub will want to have a flat surface to cut out for window, many have built in shapes


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## zannej (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks, Neal. I was reading over the instructions on the installation and it looks like they used a peel and stick thing over all of the wood. I wish I could just paint it with redguard or spray it with flex seal. LOL.

And even though it might cost more, I'm wondering if the pre-made window would be better if the mfr says I can use a spacer and channel system with anchors or something.


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## nealtw (Mar 13, 2017)

zannej said:


> Thanks, Neal. I was reading over the instructions on the installation and it looks like they used a peel and stick thing over all of the wood. I wish I could just paint it with redguard or spray it with flex seal. LOL.
> 
> And even though it might cost more, I'm wondering if the pre-made window would be better if the mfr says I can use a spacer and channel system with anchors or something.



I haven't work much with glass block,,, Safety glass??
Can't find a video on how to finish one on the bathroom side.

I think you have to start with a tub that fits and has a flat back, flat bigger than the hole you will cut for the window.

I would be looking at a double hung vinyl and tile tub surround.


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

My mother absolutely loathes tile. She doesn't want it anywhere in the house. She had tile in her house while growing up and for some reason she developed a hatred of it. 

I'm planning to get the Sterling Advantage tub and wall kit. The tub has a flange that is nailed or screwed directly to the studs and the 3-piece walls will lock in to place on the tub with a caulkless design. Although, I believe the perimeter will need to be caulked around the finished bathroom walls.

I would do the window before putting the shower walls in place.

I just found a website advertising a "protect all" window that is a pre-fab version of the Provantage glass block system. It uses vinyl spacers and silicone and the windows. They even do custom sizes, colors, and layouts and they come in slimmer blocks and can have frames with nailing flanges put on them.

I'm finding that I'm confused about some of the window terms-- I don't know what a "sash" is. So, I need to familiarize myself with the building terms for a window.

The company apparently does the window installations for people, but I'm almost certain that my home is outside their installation area. But, if I can figure out what size and frame I need, I could get it shipped with installation instructions. I just need to find out the costs. Nowhere on their site did they say anything about their prices-- which is usually a red flag that they charge and arm and a leg.


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

Adding some photos:
I went and examined the windows as best as I could (I had to climb up on a stepstool).
Here is the window from the inside:






I've been measuring the cutout opening in the wall panel to get the dimensions-- which is what was throwing me off. For the first time, I noticed that the window sinks in and has metal rods to slide up and down on.





I pulled back the wall panel to look at the wood around the window (is it called the frame?)




Looks like it's got that pink/purple treatment.

I then went outside and tried to take photos of the window from the outside but my screen protector sucks & makes my screen go completely black when the sun hits it so I couldn't see anything. I just pointed my phone in the general direction and tried to hit where I thought the photo taking button was (couldn't see it so I couldn't tell). Fewer pictures showed up on the phone than I'd thought so I must have missed the button a few times. Didn't get a usable pic of the window I wanted, but got the adjacent window that is identical.





I measured the metal part (not counting the vinyl trim) and it was 24"W x36"H. Is that the rough opening?


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## nealtw (Mar 14, 2017)

So that is a very standard sized window, normally writtin as 2' 0" x 3' 0" followed by all the discriptions on how it is built and or how it works.

I would do awning over fixed which would be divided in the middle. The bottom would be safety glass and obscure and the upper hinged at the top with clear glass.
All vinyl construction.

You can find all kinds of video on how to re and re a window and non of them get to where you want to be with a wall protected from getting wet.

http://extremehowto.com/adding-a-pvc-jamb-extension/


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

nealtw said:


> So that is a very standard sized window, normally writtin as 2' 0" x 3' 0" followed by all the discriptions on how it is built and or how it works.
> 
> I would do awning over fixed which would be divided in the middle. The bottom would be safety glass and obscure and the upper hinged at the top with clear glass.
> All vinyl construction.
> ...



By "safety glass" you mean tempered glass? Because any glass 60" and below needs to be tempered. Window starts around 46" high (I think that would be sans jamb).

I'm not sure what you mean by an awning-- I'm picturing one of those decorative things overhanging a window on the outside to keep water away.

I asked a local glass shop (which only seems to have one employee who interacts with customers) about tempered glass and she didn't know.

Do they sell pre-made vinyl windows with safety glass in the bottom?

I hit the thing to post too soon. LOL. I wanted to say that I really like the idea of the pvc jamb extension kit. Now I know what those are called and can look for them.

Edit: By awning window, you mean the kind that opens outward from the bottom? I couldn't seem to find any in the right size range when I looked- and the ones on HD were like $600!

2nd edit: I found a single hung window that is about the right size that I could probably use to replace the windows in 3 rooms (because I think they are all this size but will have to doublecheck). Probably better than the craptastic metal windows I have right now. It's $88 which isn't bad for vinyl windows in my area.


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## nealtw (Mar 14, 2017)

Awning window is a crank out window that hinges at the top
http://www.lormac.ca/awning.html

With a divider in the window so the bottom is fixed and obscure and tempered if needed. 

Big box stores only stock the most common sizes and types any thing else is special order. Most times the buy buy there window from a local producer and most times that guy would be happy to sell to you.

The jam extension is just a pvc board cut to fit and would replace the unpainted wood against your window now.


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## slownsteady (Mar 14, 2017)

http://www.hgtv.com/remodel/interior-remodel/the-anatomy-of-a-window. I'm sure there are other sites with similar info
The rough dimensions are the measurements to the 2x4 framing. That is a key measurement to know.
If you make your rough opening bigger to accommodate a bigger window, it will affect your siding...you'll have to cut it back most likely. But you can frame a smaller opening to accept the next smallest stock size. Cheaper this way than a custom window, but then you will still have to be creative on the exterior to make it fit with your siding.
My daughter's house has a block window with the hopper vent. I don't have any problem with the glass blocks, but the vinyl hopper seems flimsy and provides almost no real ventilation from a hot steamy shower.


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks, Neal. There are no reliable window makers in the area. I'll spare you the details, but my friend went to a local glass place for some window glass and they didn't even remotely come close to the right size. They totally botched the job (which they did without his permission), compromised the safety of his home, and ruined the window.

I wouldn't even know where to look to get the right size awning window.

So, it's just pvc boards? Hmm.. I wonder if they carry those at big box stores. I could replace the wooden jamb & stool with PVC? 

The window pretty much sits flush against the exterior wall so there isn't much of a visible sill on the outside.

I saw a bunch of PVC sill plates but don't know how they would fit in (although I gather they go on the window sill).

Thanks, Slownsteady. I also googled "parts of a window" and looked at images where everything is labeled. Hmm.. I wonder if the Seves hopper vent is decent quality. I've read that some of them are absolute garbage. I don't expect mine would be opened much, but I want it to be an option. The existing window hasn't been opened in years and I don't know if it can. Most of the windows like that in our house either don't open or won't stay open-- they drop like guillotines.


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## nealtw (Mar 14, 2017)

zannej said:


> Thanks, Neal. There are no reliable window makers in the area. I'll spare you the details, but my friend went to a local glass place for some window glass and they didn't even remotely come close to the right size. They totally botched the job (which they did without his permission), compromised the safety of his home, and ruined the window.
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to look to get the right size awning window.
> 
> ...



Google Jeld-wen windows, find their site closest to you and send me the link.

Your window has a flange behind the siding.


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Google Jeld-wen windows, find their site closest to you and send me the link.
> 
> Your window has a flange behind the siding.



HD & Lowes sell the Jeld-wen windows although some of them had terrible reviews. They are in Alexandria about an hour away from where I live.

This one is 23.5x35.5 and costs $143.96.

Looks like there is a small place in Ville Platte (about 30 miles away) called Doug Ashy Building Materials Inc. I'm not very familiar with that area since I've gone there maybe once in the past 15 years.

I can't remember if I mentioned that I found this Redi2Set premade window that is the right size for $183.43. Still waiting to hear back from the manufacturer about it's construction and if I can use a different method of setting it in place.


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## slownsteady (Mar 14, 2017)

I have no real idea, but caulk sounds like a terrible idea for mounting a block window


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## zannej (Mar 14, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> I have no real idea, but caulk sounds like a terrible idea for mounting a block window


Caulk wasn't the right word. It is a specific Redi2Bond adhesive designed specifically for bonding the glass blocks with vinyl. 

In Provantage I installation, the adhesive is used in 1/4" beads along the bottom channel and blocks are placed directly on top into the channel. The sides of the blocks get two beads of adhesive on the outer edge and then a vertical spacer is put in and then next block is prepared with adhesive and set in place.

In Provantage II installation, in lieu of a channel, they use anchors, spacers, and expansion thingamabobs. In this system, they insert the end of the anchor in to the opening in the side of the horizontal spacer and put the first spacer below the first row of blocks (in lieu of using a channel). The visible part of the anchor is screwed to the side wall/frame and covered with an expansion piece before placing the first block. Anchors are used on both sides. Then anchors are used for each additional row. 

One of the "how to" things I looked at actually used both systems-- where they had the channels but used the anchors as well just to make sure it was extra sturdy.

So, what I was thinking was if I could find the right size spacer, anchor, and channel (although from what I understand, I could cut the channel to the right size), I might be able to essentially create a sort of frame and use the anchors and spacers to secure the edges. The problem is, I'm not sure if I could find the right sizes or if the manufacturer would say that it would work. 

Meanwhile, in case I do make my own, I'm trying to find the right grout. I found a sanded caulk that is supposed to match grout but I don't know if it is any good.


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## zannej (Mar 16, 2017)

I heard back from the Redi2Set mfrs and they said it absolutely has to be set in mortar.

Meanwhile, Neal has my back and is trying to find out info about custom windows from places in my general area.

If that doesn't pan out-- I'm seriously wondering how difficult it is to use mortar and if I could practice with it first. It doesn't _look _like it would be that hard, but I've heard that it is best left to people who know what they are doing. And for some reason I keep thinking about how they determined that the mortar used on the Great Wall of China was mixed using ricewater (essentially the water rice was cooked in) and that is what might have made it stronger.


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2017)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9VGut3HuZE[/ame]


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## zannej (Mar 17, 2017)

Thanks, Neal.
I asked at HD if they could custom order a window with tempered glass and I told them the rough opening size. They said only window they could do with tempered glass in that size is an American Craftsman single hung window. I didn't see them on the HD website, but the price was around $186 (I think that is what she said-- I had a very hard time hearing her).
But if I can get that window you linked me from that other website with tempered glass, I'll go with it instead. I submitted an info request via their contact form and am waiting to hear from them. They were already closed when I was going to call.
Hell, at the price they are selling those windows, I might buy the one with tempered and four more without tempered (if I find that all 5 of the smaller windows are that size).


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## nealtw (Mar 17, 2017)

zannej said:


> Thanks, Neal.
> I asked at HD if they could custom order a window with tempered glass and I told them the rough opening size. They said only window they could do with tempered glass in that size is an American Craftsman single hung window. I didn't see them on the HD website, but the price was around $186 (I think that is what she said-- I had a very hard time hearing her).
> But if I can get that window you linked me from that other website with tempered glass, I'll go with it instead. I submitted an info request via their contact form and am waiting to hear from them. They were already closed when I was going to call.
> Hell, at the price they are selling those windows, I might buy the one with tempered and four more without tempered (if I find that all 5 of the smaller windows are that size).



That outfit looked like outfits around here that make windows for new houses and get stuck with returns and mistakes. So anything that isn't listed there will be regular price but I like their prices.


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## zannej (Mar 18, 2017)

nealtw said:


> That outfit looked like outfits around here that make windows for new houses and get stuck with returns and mistakes. So anything that isn't listed there will be regular price but I like their prices.


Ah.Well, it is still better than the HD price, even with tax. The HD price didn't factor in tax yet.

I went outside before it got dark and took pics and measured windows as best as I could. My measuring tape didn't want to stay still at the top so I think I'm a bit off.

I'm lazy so I put them all in a Tumblr post.

I discovered that the wood underneath my sliding glass door is badly rotted.


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## zannej (Mar 20, 2017)

I stopped by Home Depot in person after dropping my brother off at the airport. Turns out I was given bad information on the phone. The window guy was puzzled about why I was told the window was American Craftsman and would cost $186. He said that it was PlyGem windows and American Craftsman was one of their lines. The 500 series vinyl windows can have tempered glass added for about $9 to $10. Base model is $91. If I get it with grids it goes up $15. And the exterior screen for the window is $5.78. With the screen on the plain window with safety glass it would be $106. With the grids it would be $121. I *think* the grids are between the panes (the windows are double-glazed and have argon).

This is the plain window: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ply-Gem-23-5-in-x-35-5-in-Single-Hung-Vinyl-Window-White-510/204293170

This is the one with grids: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ply-Gem-23-5-in-x-35-5-in-Single-Hung-Vinyl-Window-White-510/204293186

I asked the sales guy for windows that will work as replacements-- although the website says these are for "new construction". I wonder if that makes much of a difference. The only customer review said that the homeowner was able to install the window himself. He didn't specify if it was new construction or old though.

The installation instructions for the window mentions using weather resistant barrier OR pan flashing. I don't know which of those I would use or which would be better. But apparently it affects the caulking.

If I go up there again when the sales guy is less frazzled (he had just cut his finger and bled all over the floor before he came back from cleaning it up and getting a bandaid), I might find out if other brands of the vinyl windows can have the tempered glass and price them out.

The Plygem ones seemed fairly decent-- but I wonder if the tilt-in for cleaning thing is a good idea for a shower. Also, some of the windows in the store appeared to have some sort of felt or furry material that helped the windows slide up and down. I'm concerned this might be a trap for moisture and build up mildew & mold- or that the material could be damaged by moisture.


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## slownsteady (Mar 22, 2017)

The felt strip is mainly for draft protection. And it's a good question if that stuff can suffer in a steamy bathroom. The tilt-in option shouldn't be a problem and definitely helps in cleaning.


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## zannej (Mar 22, 2017)

Thanks. I will have to see if I can get in touch with the manufacturer to find out if the felt can survive inside of a shower. 
Granted, I still plan to put up a little vinyl curtain over the opening to protect the window from direct spray, but I know heat and moisture will still reach it.

I think the most challenging part now will be the installation (once I get it ordered and make sure it is not broken). I think I will go back to the store and look at the windows again and see how they do on opening and closing.

I'm also trying to figure out if I can fix my kitchen window. It won't stay open-- just drops. I think it was installed in the late 1980s, but I'm not certain. Mom said something about that being a "new" window.


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## slownsteady (Mar 23, 2017)

I know that you are getting tempered glass for the bathroom. you may also want to find out if a textured or frosted glass is available.


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## zannej (Mar 23, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> I know that you are getting tempered glass for the bathroom. you may also want to find out if a textured or frosted glass is available.


I thought about that, but I'm sure it would cost more and since I already plan to use a little curtain, I can get a frosted one. I don't want to complicate the order more than I have to. With my luck, I've decided it is best to just get the simplest one (with tempered glass). The more special stuff I want to add, the more chances of them screwing things up.

Edit because I posted stuff in the wrong thread.


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## frodo (Mar 29, 2017)

in my opinion.  do not put a window in a wet area

if you want more lite in your bathroom, put in a sun roof


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## frodo (Mar 29, 2017)

zannej said:


> Thanks. I will have to see if I can get in touch with the manufacturer to find out if the felt can survive inside of a shower.
> Granted, I still plan to put up a little vinyl curtain over the opening to protect the window from direct spray, but I know heat and moisture will still reach it.
> 
> I think the most challenging part now will be the installation (once I get it ordered and make sure it is not broken). I think I will go back to the store and look at the windows again and see how they do on opening and closing.
> ...



broom stick handle,  fixed,  next ?


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## zannej (Mar 30, 2017)

frodo said:


> broom stick handle,  fixed,  next ?


I usually prop it open with a bottle of Dawn. Although, I don't like opening it much since we had that full on nest of black widows behind the screen. Dad made liberal use of the RAID on that. LOL.

I actually think spiders are cool, but black widows and brown recluses need to die.


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## zannej (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Ply Gem manufacturers but I heard from Jeld-wen-- they said the windows can't be in direct continuous water spray from either outside or inside (so no spraying the windows with a garden hose to clean them). Since I plan to put a curtain over the window from the inside it shouldn't be an issue-- but I don't like the no hose thing-- is that normal for windows these days?

I wonder if Ply Gem has the same rules for their windows.


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## nealtw (Apr 2, 2017)

zannej said:


> I'm still waiting to hear back from the Ply Gem manufacturers but I heard from Jeld-wen-- they said the windows can't be in direct continuous water spray from either outside or inside (so no spraying the windows with a garden hose to clean them). Since I plan to put a curtain over the window from the inside it shouldn't be an issue-- but I don't like the no hose thing-- is that normal for windows these days?
> 
> I wonder if Ply Gem has the same rules for their windows.



I have never heard of that.


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## slownsteady (Apr 3, 2017)

Spraying with a garden hose is not considered "continuous". I think it means "do not install in Car Wash"


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## zannej (Apr 3, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> Spraying with a garden hose is not considered "continuous". I think it means "do not install in Car Wash"


Except that the instructions/maintenance/care for the Jeld-wen specifically said not to spray the windows with a garden hose.

I get not pressure spraying them so they don't break, but they said that spraying with a hose would let water leak in to the walls.

Been too sick to call Ply Gem to ask them, but I don't recall seeing anything in their stuff about no hosing.


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