# HVAC duct and Outlet box in same wall cavity???



## latelifebiker (Mar 13, 2014)

For a kitchen renovation I have to relocate both an existing HVAC wall vent and an existing 110v duplex outlet.  The cabinet that I plan to install on that wall will cover both existing items.
It's not a long wall and there's ALREADY a duplex outlet in the middle of it but facing into the adjacent dining room on the other side of the wall. 
I'm rapidly running out of stud bays for containing the necessary fixtures.
Can I put the HVAC duct and vent in the same cavity with the DINING ROOM outlet box.  It's a plastic box nailed to a stud.
Thanks.  -llb


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## kok328 (Mar 13, 2014)

_"Can I put the HVAC duct and vent in the same cavity with the DINING ROOM outlet box."_ *No.*
Also, you can not install a cabinet over an electrical circuit such as a box where the outlet has been removed and the wires capped off.  You will have to pull that wire back to it's source (breaker panel or branch circuit junction).


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## latelifebiker (Mar 13, 2014)

kok328 said:


> _"Can I put the HVAC duct and vent in the same cavity with the DINING ROOM outlet box."_ *No.*
> Also, you can not install a cabinet over an electrical circuit such as a box where the outlet has been removed and the wires capped off.  You will have to pull that wire back to it's source (breaker panel or branch circuit junction).



As unhappy as I am with your answer, I appreciate your prompt reply.
I won't be capping the electric wiring; as stated, I'm "moving" the outlet.
Thanks for the guidance.  -llb


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## bud16415 (Mar 14, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-RdBAFbzg


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## latelifebiker (Mar 14, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-RdBAFbzg



Thanks for the link, bud.  I'm sure there's something in that video you wanted me to see, but I watched the whole thing and just got confused.
Maybe I should clarify that the stud bay/wall cavity I'm concerned about is not a plenum.  It's a plain, old void between two non-bearing, partition wall studs, enclosed on both sides by sheet rock.  This one happens to have an electrical outlet box nailed to a stud on one side.  The stud bay is the typical 14.5 inches wide.  The outlet box takes up 2.5 inches of that width, leaving 12 unoccupied inches of the with, and in that space I would like to bring up through the floor plate a very short, fully enclosed, rectangular, sheet metal, 4 X 10 air duct, topped with a  10 X 6 rectangular stack head, which will vent into the kitchen at a point seven inches above the floor.  The duct in the stud bay will occupy only the bottom 13 inches of the wall cavity.  The dining room electric outlet is 10 inches off the floor and its plastic enclosure box would be two inches from the side wall of the duct at the very top of the stack head.  This is not a return duct but rather supplies heat and a/c to a wall vent directed into the kitchen.  No plenums.  No contact. And correspondents on other forums say No Problem.  What do you say?
Thanks.  -llb


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## Wuzzat? (Mar 14, 2014)

For those who know the code, is it possible that remodelers can paint themselves into a corner 
where they cannot comply with code unless they scrap their whole plan and several alternate plans?

In which case the code is, in effect, telling them how to remodel or how not to remodel?


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## bud16415 (Mar 14, 2014)

I understood pretty much from your first post that it was just the space between two studs and IMHO I see nothing wrong with using the lower part of the bay for the heat / AC and the above area for relocating your outlet box given the wires are long enough to reach. I&#8217;m sure you know you can&#8217;t splice the wires in the wall and kok328 pointed out you can&#8217;t terminate them or extend them from the old box unless you have access to it and putting a cabinet in front would rule that out unless you had the box come thru and then I&#8217;m not sure how code would view that. 

The vid points out what is a plenum is and isn&#8217;t and what is and isn&#8217;t conditioning air space. Yours is neither as I see it. Mike Holt&#8217;s explanation of the code is confusing but it&#8217;s fairly clear compared to reading it and comprehending it. Those vids are helpful in hearing someone explain what they believe the code is saying and that&#8217;s why I offered it. I am not an electrician and I believe some of the others that replied are and maybe I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m talking about or maybe they thought you wanted to run the wire thru the air return or something. That I don&#8217;t know but from what I see I think you are fine sharing the space as long as the wire isn&#8217;t in or passing thru the air passageway or you are not running the wire where air is drawn from such that an electrical fire would be fanned by the movement of air. 

I&#8217;m sure you will get more pro advice.


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## nealtw (Mar 14, 2014)

I think it might be against code or even common sence. If it is just a bay used for return air you have dust with air movement and if it is duct work, do you really want a power line where it might come in contact.


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## kok328 (Mar 14, 2014)

latelifebiker said:


> Thanks for the link, bud.  I'm sure there's something in that video you wanted me to see, but I watched the whole thing and just got confused.
> Maybe I should clarify that the stud bay/wall cavity I'm concerned about is not a plenum.  It's a plain, old void between two non-bearing, partition wall studs, enclosed on both sides by sheet rock.  This one happens to have an electrical outlet box nailed to a stud on one side.  The stud bay is the typical 14.5 inches wide.  The outlet box takes up 2.5 inches of that width, leaving 12 unoccupied inches of the with, and in that space I would like to bring up through the floor plate a very short, fully enclosed, rectangular, sheet metal, 4 X 10 air duct, topped with a  10 X 6 rectangular stack head, which will vent into the kitchen at a point seven inches above the floor.  The duct in the stud bay will occupy only the bottom 13 inches of the wall cavity.  The dining room electric outlet is 10 inches off the floor and its plastic enclosure box would be two inches from the side wall of the duct at the very top of the stack head.  This is not a return duct but rather supplies heat and a/c to a wall vent directed into the kitchen.  No plenums.  No contact. And correspondents on other forums say No Problem.  What do you say?
> Thanks.  -llb



Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I thought the electrical box and wall cavity/return duct were in the same bay.  However, having the supply duct and the electrical outlet in the same wall cavity is acceptable in this case because you have a physically constructed plenum or duct that is separate from the wall cavity in an active environmental air space.

Again, to move the outlet, if you have to extend the wires with a splice in a junction box; that box must be accessible and not covered with a cabinet.  To dodge this code requirement and not "paint yourself into a corner", you would cut out an opening in the back of the cabinet to expose the junction box cover.


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