# Replacing exterior doors with rotted sills



## zannej (Jun 6, 2017)

I've mentioned this before in other threads, but I need some help with installing a replacement exterior door.

The house is wood with vinyl siding put on years after the door was installed so I don't know the situation with any flashing or house wrap (although I vaguely recall that when the new siding was put on it was some sort of pink stuff).

The previous steel door had been stolen by the tenants (who claimed it was broken) and it was replaced with a very crappy wood door. Because the parquet flooring had been destroyed, the level of the floor was lowered and thus they cut the frame short and lowered the door (so low that it scrapes the substrate/floor when it swings in). It tore the linoleum up and it's now just plywood or something there.

There were huge gaps so we filled them with expanding foam (which I think was a mistake bc it may have warped something so the door won't stay shut properly anymore and I have to prop something against it).

I know I will need to cut out the top filler part when the new door is put in. We got this prehung door on sale. So it will be about a 36x80 door. It came with narrow trim for the exterior (current exterior trim is crappy 4" wide planks with peeling paint). The jamb depth is 4-9/16".

I think fixing the top part and getting the door plumb is not difficult to figure out-- but, I'm trying to figure out what to do about the sill and floor part. The exterior sill is in bad shape and there is some sort of wood between the sill and the threshold that is rotted. I'm trying to figure out the best way to fix it. 

I want to raise the door back up to allow for higher finished floor should we ever choose to get vinyl plank or thicker flooring material. 

So, I need advice on what to do about the rotted wood, installation, and moisture prevention.

I am leaning toward getting some sort of PVC material so it won't rot since I live in a very humid climate and even treated lumber rots here.

I saw a few Suresill sloped PVC door sill "complete packs" and assume I need 4-9/16"D sill pan pack(end caps, sill, and pvc glue & applicator). I will probably still need some flashing tape or something. There is also a head flashing kit but it is 1-3/8"D. 

Additionally, I have a sliding door with rotted wood (almost identical-- if not worse-- to the rotting on the swinging door). So I am wondering about getting a Suresill specifically for vinyl sliding doors (if we ever get a vinyl sliding door-- I will need to measure the jamb depth, which might be tricky because the track got bent and the door is difficult to open for measuring purposes). The sliding door ones only come in 3-1/4"D but replacement sliding doors are over 4" thick.

My questions are:
1. Is it worth getting the Suresill sill pan and having to notch the pre-installed exterior trim that came with the door? (It's around $23 for the pack)
2. Is it worth getting the header pack?
3. How do I deal with/replace the rotted pieces under the existing threshold?
4. If it is not worth it to get the packs, what should I get instead?
5. What is the piece of wood under the threshold called? (It looks too thick to be subfloor).
6. Since the moisture is getting in (despite the door being under eaves that extend out over 1'), should I do this asap or wait until I'm replacing the entire subfloor in the area?
7. Any suggestions/advice?
BONUS: Could anyone please recommend a good lockset with deadbolt that can easily be rekeyed to use existing keys? (Mother would like it in polished brass).
Here are some pictures of what I'm dealing with. Let me know if anyone needs more pictures.

Rotted sill & whatever that piece is under the threshold along with peeling rotting door (cinderblocks will hopefully be replaced with real steps eventually). Could that be just the edge of the subfloor and substrate that has bloated and separated from moisture damage?






Interior view (the edge under the threshold has been rotting and sinking)





Closeups of the exterior rot/damage









Notes:
* I have not yet picked a replacement sliding door (I believe the current one is 72x80) so I am not ready to replace it yet, but it has the same type of damage to the sill-- I will have to get pictures later.
* I am considering building a small platform just outside the door so there is more space when stepping out, but I will need to figure out how to do that and make sure it will not rot, warp, or break. I will need to figure out just how large to make it. Maybe something like this only not as deep (and somehow allowing access to the water faucet just just outside on the left).


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## nealtw (Jun 6, 2017)

Last question first. Newer key sets have the ability for you to change the keys yourself so with the help of a good apron they might find you one that uses the same key blank you have and then you could re key it to match your other doors.
Your old door has flat wood trim around it and the new door should have brick mold attached, After you have installed the door, remove the brick mold and replace it with new wood that fits the gap.
I have not seen a sill pan up close but yeas you want something we use the blueskin just like the windows. Water can and will get behind the frame of windows and doors and need a way out so we start at the floor with blueskin and then protect the framing with house wrap or something so water runs down and not into the wood.

On the inside can you measure the framing of the house and make sure the hole is 38" wide and from the subfloor where the cat is standing to the top framing is 82"

Jobs like this often goes sideways when a home owner gets into it so make sure you have enough plywood to cover the hole if you don't get it done in one day.
The head flashing looks great but siding will have to be removed for that so let's get more info first or buy it and a length of Z flashing so a decision can be made at the time.
Z flashing should be able to slide in with out removing siding and adjusting the top trim size. The picture does not show the ends turned up so wind doesn't drive water sideways.


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## zannej (Jun 7, 2017)

I just typed up a long message but somehow it got eaten... 2nd attempt...

The sill pan kit I was looking at is a PVC bottom frame that sits under the threshold. It is supposed to be cut a little shy of the width of the rough opening so the end caps can be secured with PVC glue. It would go over existing house wrap or flashing-- so I could use something similar to that blue tape stuff you mentioned underneath.





The instructions recommend peeling back the siding just around the edges a bit-- although I wonder if that will be fully necessary if I just take off the old 4" trim. I plan to replace the old trim with something that won't rot- painted PVC or something. I need to measure the trim that came with the new door and see how much of a gap there is between the vinyl siding and the new trim. I think the new stuff is only about 3" or so, but I'll have to take a look when I go down there.

The exterior top of the door has the same flat wood trim as the sides. I managed to find a picture I forgot that I'd taken.





Bottom of the door doesn't look good





Top from the inside





I'll just link additional pics since I'm only allowed 4 per post. I wanted to get more exterior shots today but it was raining hard. We did manage to find a brief window of light rain to get the doors in to the barn.

Fuzzy wide shot of the door from interior (note how crooked it is).

Exterior shot of top of jamb with door closed.

Interior shot of the knob-- more sunlight coming in.

And here you can see the weather stripping from the interior with door open.

I don't know if the new door has weather stripping since we weren't able to open the ones they had at the store.

NOTE TO SELF: Z Flashing.

I think we've figured out what lever/lockset to get. I think we will move the lever from the front door to the back door (since it was just the lever we replaced and the key does not match the one for the deadbolt). We will then replace the deadbolt and lever on the front door with something sturdier. I'm thinking Schlage flair lever with standard trim & a deadbolt. I was told by customer service that if we take the lockset to the key cutting area after purchase, they will rekey it to match an existing key.

The Kwikset had some sort of smart key thing that let you rekey it yourself BUT, the ones we were looking at in the same price range as the Schlage had bad reviews-- finish peeling off, plastic parts, jamming and having to be cut out, breaking off, etc. Schlage has thicker screws and a better design to prevent someone from breaking in. We aren't worried about people breaking in, but longevity is something we want-- and it has a lifetime warranty. If the finish wears off, it is covered under the warranty.

I need to wait for a nice dry that isn't too hot to go out and take a peek under the threshold to see what I'm dealing with and if I should just replace the entire floor at once. I already have several sheets of plywood in my workshop, although I'm wondering if I should get the kind that has grooves to click together that is specifically designed for floors.

The good news is, once Mom found out about the military discount and I showed her pictures, I actually got her excited about renovating and getting things fixed up (plus I told her I will pay for the laundry room/bathroom reno myself). Once she saw how bad the back door looked she realized how important it is to get it fixed. All that moisture and heat keeps coming in. We have a thick curtain between the kitchen and that hallway to keep the heat out.

Would it be better for me to do the painting on the door and trim before installation? It's all primed right now-- and I was thinking of painting some of the pieces that will be hidden once is installed-- just to make sure it is sealed against moisture.

And I'm guessing that if I measure first and make sure I have enough plywood of the right thickness on hand before I start, I could do the floor first and make sure it is more level. I'll just have to hope for dry weather corresponding with clear schedules for my friends. I'm going to help my friend when he fixes up his burned house so he's happy to help me.

I can probably get more info on the flooring forum about the subfloor stuff though.

So, should I wait for the floors for the whole area to be fixed before I mess with the door? Or should I just fix the area where the door will sit first and then fix the rest later? 

Is there anything I forgot to address? Sorry this is so scattered. I'm exhausted today.


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## nealtw (Jun 7, 2017)

zannej; I will try to put a set of instruction together for you to follow. 

I want to slow it down and get the right information in the right order.

First the measurements I asked for  the rough framing measurement from stud to stud on each side of the door.
And from the floor inside to the 2x4 on flat above the door frame.


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## nealtw (Jun 7, 2017)

Does the subfloor need more repairs other than the below the threshold.


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## nealtw (Jun 7, 2017)

That sill pan is better than blueskin if there is room for it. We will see when you get the measurements of the opening.


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## zannej (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks, Neal. I wish I could remember where I wrote the measurements down. I did measure the studs around before. And I need a better measurement of the framing-- I think it was under 6" but more than 4" (but that was including the exterior trim).

The subfloor and substrate are showing signs of water damage all the way under the house where the shower stall is. It spans over two joists at least. The plan was to tear it all out and replace it with something more durable and moisture resistant. 





The damage in the laundry room extends to the top layer of floor as well-- although that could have been from a hose leak while the tenants lived here. The guy who installed the crappy sheet vinyl poured some white powder and added water to it to try to fix the damage, but the stuff broke apart when we moved the washer and dryer. I don't have to mess with the flooring for the part that will be the bathroom just yet. I'd like to get the area closest to the door fixed up and I plan to knock out a wall.

I'm just debating whether or not I should just do the one section first to have it fixed for the door and prevent more moisture from coming in and then do the rest. I will have to tear out the wall before I do more of the work on the floor.


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## zannej (Jun 7, 2017)

I just measured-- stud span (not including some large shims) around the door is approximately 39 inches.

When I measured the floor to header it was about 81" on one side and 82" on the other. The header looks like some of the wood has split and the vertical boards on top of it don't go all the way up to the boards above. I *think* that I could probably shim it back up again-- but it explains the big gap above the knob side of the door. 

Upon looking at the pictures of the door threshold more closely, I think it looks like two layers of plywood.

I'll wait until daylight (and rain cessation) to measure the jamb depth again.


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## nealtw (Jun 7, 2017)

zannej said:


> I just measured-- stud span (not including some large shims) around the door is approximately 39 inches.
> 
> When I measured the floor to header it was about 81" on one side and 82" on the other. The header looks like some of the wood has split and the vertical boards on top of it don't go all the way up to the boards above. I *think* that I could probably shim it back up again-- but it explains the big gap above the knob side of the door.
> 
> ...



I think I have figured out why the door sill is lower that the floor.

The original old door was only 78" high, standard when the house was built.

When the door was changed to an 80" they went down instead of up.

There is some changes that can be made before the door is pulled out.


Can you pull the insulation in this area and maybe step on a ladder and get some pictures of detail there of wiring and framing


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## zannej (Jun 7, 2017)

I didn't have the ladder handy but I got up on a chair.
The insulation was somewhat stuck on the foam, but I found that the electrical runs from the top and probably in to the attic and then to the left because the electrical box is directly next to the door on the left.

I will need to replace that nasty insulation with something better.

I'm not sure if these photos are very good. I might need to get more.





Left side-- cobwebs got in the way. The gap between the 2x4 & the next horizontal piece looked larger from down low.









I apparently forgot to get one of the ride side.

Wiring for the external light-- probably not kosher to have the insulation sitting on it like this with no fire protection.





I was afraid that if I pulled the insulation all the way out that it wouldn't go back in.

Are these good enough or do I need to completely remove the insulation and get wider shots?

I have a friend who has installed doors numerous times so he will be helping me. I have the appropriate cutting tools needed for pulling out the stuff above the header and cutting it more evenly so that I could prop it up more. I'm seriously considering moving the whole header up even more so that the finished floor can be higher (and thus bring the threshold up a bit more). The new door came with a threshold so I will have to examine it to see what kind it is (I think it is vinyl top rather than saddle but am not certain).

I'm thinking of getting this tool (not sure if it would help with this project though). https://www.wish.com/c/58e5aa80ab271831a48c90d1

And I wonder if the door hanger kit would actually help. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Express-Products-Quick-Door-Hanger-Single-Bag-201/202366685

Edit: they have instructions on how to do exterior door installation. http://thequickdoorhanger.com/installing-exterior-door/

And this for shims if the hanger kit doesn't work for exterior doors. http://www.homedepot.com/p/8-in-Composite-Shim-Bundle-of-12-SHM1-12-TW/202807695
(some of this is to remind myself what stuff to get)

Also, I used a level and the floor slopes downward to the left (while facing the door from the inside). I think it could be the whole area slanting- perhaps from a bad build or from settling.


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## nealtw (Jun 8, 2017)

The friend you have to help you, does he have a sawzall type saw?

The wire coming down from the attic, can you get a good look at that and see if it is in the middle of the 2x4 or closer to the inside or the out side?

Are the 2x4 actually 2x4 or are they 1 1/2 x 3 1/2?


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## zannej (Jun 9, 2017)

I'm guessing they are not fully 2x4. I know they make them slightly smaller than the listed measurements. I can't check right now because I borked my ankle. My brother's dog tripped me and while I was trying to catch myself I managed to turn my foot so I stepped down on the side of it instead of the bottom. Got it wrapped with an ice pack and elevated. 

I think I have a sawzall. If not, I think my friend does.

When I'm back on my feet again I'll have a look at the wire to see if I can trace it's path.

I'm going to need new insulation-- thinking of getting a combination of Roxul rock wool (fire and moisture resistant) and Reflectix radiant barrier. I'd put the Roxul against the exterior and have the Reflectix on the interior-- hopefully it would help hold the Roxul in place-- although I might just tack some nails in so they stick out enough to hold the Roxul in place. Radiant barrier on top of it might be overkill. But, maybe it will be worth it if it keeps the area cool in summer and warm in winter.

Someone suggested a storm door would help, but I don't know what to get that wouldn't block the cat door. They have some with built-in pet doors but it would conflict with the existing pet door. So, I'm thinking maybe a screen door with a cutout-- letting them through to the pet door. I saw a screen door that is covered on the lower part but I could probably cut a hole for the pets. There was another screen door that has a pet door on it although it is more expensive than the back door we bought and has some negative reviews about the sturdiness. 
There was also a storm door with pet door but it was a bit too high in price.

I know I'm getting ahead of things. I know I first need to deal with the header-- figuring out how to move the electrical box up without screwing with the remains of the fixture on the outside.

Does it make much of a difference if the 2x4s are really like 1.75 x 3.75 instead? I could have sworn they do 1/4" smaller rather than half but I could be wrong. And it was done a long time ago so materials may have changed.

I need to figure out just how much higher to move it and thus how high the threshold will be compared to the subfloor. I'm seriously considering just having sheet vinyl for the finished floor and then using some sort of ramp to bridge the height gap from the threshold.


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## nealtw (Jun 9, 2017)

Sorry about the foot. Hope you never broke anything.

The electrical box in the picture is for an inside light, the one facing outside must be just above that.

I am hoping we can make the change without touching the siding or light out side.

Up here, we always put the header at the top of the wall, so adjusting height for a door is much easier.

So my plan

Remove about 8" of the top of the two 2x4s above the header.
Make a new header out of full length 2x6 with plywood spacer between to allow wire to fit between them  Hopefully
Install that in the top of the wall and add tight blocks between new and old headers.

After the door is removed cut the old header straight up beside the studs under it on both sides and remove it.

Replace it with a 2x4 .then cut the extra outside sheeting that would be below the new 2x4

So if the old header is 3 1/2" the new sill would be 2" higher.


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## slownsteady (Jun 9, 2017)

Zannej: the door you picked appears to be steel clad. It has only one hole bored so you will either have to bore another hole for the deadbolt or skip it. Also, your new door has no pet entrance...also hard to cut in a steel door. Think this through very carefully before you do anything, or you will be without a door for days.
You can probably download instructions from either the Lowes site or the Masonite site. Don't think of this as a patch job or you will end up with that as a result. Make sure the rough opening is solid and to spec.


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## zannej (Jun 10, 2017)

Neal, the box may be for an interior light, but it was used for an exterior light. The builders did a lot of things wrong-- like that toilet in the 23" alcove. Do you have any sketches of what you're talking about? I'm trying to visualize it but my brain doesn't want to work. Maybe it's because I'm tired.

Slownsteady, the new lockset will be for the front door (which is wood and already has holes for things). We are going to take just the lever from the front door and move it to the back door and then replace the front lockset so the keys match. Currently the deadbolt for the front door does not match the lever in terms of keying. We had a cheap knob that came with the deadbolt and the knob broke off so I replaced it with a lever.

I'm going to look in to the best methods for cutting through the steel and I will make sure to use the template for the pet door and doublecheck before any cutting starts. When I asked at the store if the door could be cut for a pet door they said "Yes".

I plan to put the pet door on before installing the door. That way I can cut the hole, prime it, paint the whole setup and then put in the pet door (with some door & window silicone around and behind it). Then I'll fix the header & such as per Neal's instructions & install the door. Might need to do more about the floor first though.


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## nealtw (Jun 11, 2017)

door & window *caulk* is not silicone

cut the cat door hole with a jig saw with a metal blade after drilling a hole.

The light detail is what i wanted to see with out insulation.

Did you understand how to replace the header.


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## zannej (Jun 12, 2017)

nealtw said:


> door & window *caulk* is not silicone
> 
> cut the cat door hole with a jig saw with a metal blade after drilling a hole.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I've got a jig saw. Just need to get the right blade and the right drill bits for the metal.

My ankle is feeling better so I can walk on it. It's doing much better than the time I broke / dislocated my other ankle. It took me 2 years to be able to walk without a limp on that one. I still can't jump or do anything too strenuous on that ankle. And this one has healed much faster,  but I'm sick as hell with some kind of stomach bug. Can't even drink water without it hurting my stomach. It was kind of funny because I had the chills last night and I muttered something about being cold and my cat (who was sitting on a shelf near the door) reached up and pulled down the switch to turn off the ceiling fan. Pretty sure it was a coincidence though. LOL. Right now I'm waiting for my bro to get up so I can give him money and send him to the store to get some medicine for me. 

But, back on topic, when I'm feeling better I'll try to get better pics of that light with the insulation moved out of the way. I think I already know what insulation to put in it's place, I just have to order it.

I think I understood what you were saying about the header but am not certain.  Are there any youtube videos you've found that are good examples?


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## nealtw (Jun 12, 2017)

OK  Well this guy didn't need a header and didn't need the 2  2x4 but you would have to go up to the to[ of the wall with blocks below from the old header to the new.

With the wire there you will not be able to pre build it. you will have to put in the 2 pieces separately with a space between to give room for the wire.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx1uwkzz6YI[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3jnDDSjQ2c[/ame]


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

I installed one of those cat doors that have a collar tag to open, they have a kit that reaches thru the exterior wall. I put it under a window, I thought that was better than cutting into a door.


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## zannej (Jun 13, 2017)

nealtw said:


> I installed one of those cat doors that have a collar tag to open, they have a kit that reaches thru the exterior wall. I put it under a window, I thought that was better than cutting into a door.


We just don't have any places on the walls where we could put a cat door. The exterior wall surface is pretty much covered with cabinets or is in rooms the cats aren't supposed to be in.

I saw this video on making a header. Is this what you were talking about?
How thick is that plywood?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kev6L7oRX9M[/ame]

And then there was talk of an "engineered" header
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwoA5wiVR5M[/ame]


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

If the plywood is 1/2" thick as a spacer  there will be room to run the wire between the 2x6 hopefully the wire is in the center of the top plates of the wall.


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## zannej (Jun 13, 2017)

I just checked and the wire runs through the 2x4s sideways rather than in to the attic-- and it passes through the light fixture to the adjacent wall to the useless bathroom.






It goes up to the left and through the studs all the way to the left wall to the nearby circuit box.





The other wire that goes up from the blue box then diverts to the right and passes through the studs and around the corner and down to the light switch.





I think I've shown the wider shot with the light switch before. Now I need to figure out which breaker it is attached to and shut it off so I can shut it off and disconnect it. I wonder if I could cut the vertical pieces above the header while they are in place and make them short enough to jam a new header in (after removing that light and moving the wires out of the way). I definitely want to caulk the seams on the exterior wall- looks like there are some gaps on those boards.

Not sure when my friend will be able to help-- his grandmother just got rushed to the hospital last night with heart failure and they transferred her to a crappy hospital instead of to a good one (not sure if the family had a choice).

Edit: I can see that the black wires come out the blue box at the top and exit through the wood above the blue box-- so I could probably flip the box upsidedown so it is well out of the way of the header.


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

To find the breaker. You need some cheap fixture, if nothing else pick up one of those plastic things that look like the old white porcelain ones.

Turn off all the breakers, hook up the fixture and turn on breakers one at a time until that light comes on and you have the breaker in question.

If the wires go sideways, the header gets easier, just 2 2x6s nailed together no plywood and a block on each side to hold it up.. Just pre dril the blocks for the wire to go thru.


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

zannej, moving on to the floor. This is going to be a bit of a bear to figure out, with out crawling around under there and poking at things.

Can you figure the direction of the floor joists in that area. I would think they go side ways toward the bathroom?


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## zannej (Jun 13, 2017)

nealtw said:


> To find the breaker. You need some cheap fixture, if nothing else pick up one of those plastic things that look like the old white porcelain ones.
> 
> Turn off all the breakers, hook up the fixture and turn on breakers one at a time until that light comes on and you have the breaker in question.
> 
> If the wires go sideways, the header gets easier, just 2 2x6s nailed together no plywood and a block on each side to hold it up.. Just pre dril the blocks for the wire to go thru.


I could probably just flip all of the breakers off to be safe and figure out which one it's on later. I do have a little tool that is supposed to detect electricity to tell me if a wire is live, but it also lights up when it is near metal so I don't think it works all that well.
I really do need to organize the breaker box and make sure everything is more clearly marked. Some of the magnets with the identifiers have slipped and I'm not sure which breakers they are supposed to indicate.
So, the 2x6s would be put together side by side and I would put it on top of extension blocks to raise it up a bit more?

I think I'll find a cardboard box and make a template where I can figure out where things would go when level so I can figure out just how much to cut and how much to buff up. And I have a spare piece of 2x4 just lying on the floor in the area for some reason.
I'll have to check the workshop for 2x6s. If we don't have any I can hit the local hardware store later.


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

zannej said:


> I could probably just flip all of the breakers off to be safe and figure out which one it's on later. I do have a little tool that is supposed to detect electricity to tell me if a wire is live, but it also lights up when it is near metal so I don't think it works all that well.
> I really do need to organize the breaker box and make sure everything is more clearly marked. Some of the magnets with the identifiers have slipped and I'm not sure which breakers they are supposed to indicate.
> So, the 2x6s would be put together side by side and I would put it on top of extension blocks to raise it up a bit more?
> 
> ...



Your indicator might be good enough to tell if power is on and then when it is turned off.

The old header goes right over the studs on both sides. the blocks would be a tight fit from old to new header.


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## nealtw (Jun 13, 2017)

The sub floor we can see by the back door looks to be plywood. 
In this picture we can see boards. these board could be any thickness from 3/4 inch to 1 1/2 inch, the plywood could be any thickness from 1/4" to 3/4" and there could be more layers in between. 

Is there any holes thru the floor where you might get a look at what you have?


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## zannej (Jun 14, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The sub floor we can see by the back door looks to be plywood.
> In this picture we can see boards. these board could be any thickness from 3/4 inch to 1 1/2 inch, the plywood could be any thickness from 1/4" to 3/4" and there could be more layers in between.
> 
> Is there any holes thru the floor where you might get a look at what you have?



Not currently. And there is no guarantee that what the floor looks like in one spot will match in another. This was a mickey mouse job.

The back door seemed to show two layers of plywood under the threshold but it's difficult to tell the thickness.

I convinced my mother to let me tear out the west wall of the bathroom so I might be able to see through there, but am not certain. I don't want to mess with the floor until I'm steadier on both feet and know that I will have help-- and I don't know how my friend's grandmother is doing. She apparently had another heart attack at the hospital and had to get a heart catheter test. She's basically a mother to him since his birth mother was a meth addict and wasn't around. If she doesn't pull through he's going to be devastated and in no shape to help out. I think my friend actually has my prybar and some of my tools.

Edit: Maybe if I can clear enough space to get at the drain for the lav that broke, I might be able to remove it and get a look. But I'm not going to be able to climb under there anytime soon.


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## nealtw (Jun 14, 2017)

Before you crawl under there, we need a plan for what else you can look at an maybe poke at and take pictures.

If you have a hole saw you might cut a hole near by and the the plug would show what you have.


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## zannej (Jun 17, 2017)

I forgot to comment on joist direction. Joists seem to run east to west. Load bearing walls are north to south. None of the walls I'm planning to cut are load-bearing fortunately.

My friend's grandmother is doing better. My old cardiologist (whom I really miss) treated her when she was transferred. He basically found a polite way to say the doctors back here are idiots and got her sorted out. So, my friend came out to give my Mom the monthly loan payment (zero interest and so he wouldn't have to go to those stupid payday loan places that are guilty of usery). I showed him the header and talked to him about it. He said he can help me with it when things settle down and I get feeling better. Still got a stomach bug that isn't responding to medicine. If it doesn't clear up by Monday I'm calling the doctor.

But at least he knows what needs to be done and knows how to do it.

I can't remember if we decided on something-- Do I just need to make sure that the new header is at 82" and level? Or should I bump it up higher than that?

Also, I need to figure out how high the built-in threshold is for the prehung door. Right now I can walk on level ground, but the ground to the workshop is sloped and bumpy so I am going to wait until my ankle is a little more recovered before going down there.

Once this stomach bug passes I will see if I can find one of the hole cutting attachments. I should have one in the workshop somewhere. I remember my dad drilled a hole and the wood got stuck in the cutter and wouldn't come out. LOL. It might still be down there with the wood in it.

Cutting a hole would probably help me see if there is a joist underneath the little wall part that I plan to leave intact when I do the renovation.


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## nealtw (Jun 18, 2017)

I would put the new header right up to the top of the wall just under the top plates witha block on each side down to the old header. 
That can be done before the door is re moved. Then anything we need can be worked out with out a problem.

I like the east west answer but do we expect the floor joist to run in the same direction as the wall with the door?

It is going to be hard to figure out exactly what has to be done before digging in there. 

Cutting a hole where to the tub will go later might help.

Does this house have and exterior foundation or it is sitting on piers.


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## zannej (Jun 20, 2017)

Oops. Forgot to clarify that the wall with the exterior door runs north to south. I'm currently working on an improved sketch of the layout.

Ok, so I think if we put the header at the top, I won't have to move the electrical box for the back light. That would work better.

And I just got totally distracted because one of my cats is chasing his own tail and making a lot of noise in the process... WTF? Cats. LOL.


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## nealtw (Jun 21, 2017)

That short wall beside the door. The bottom plate of that wall is sitting on the sub floor. That 2x4 is 1 1/2 inches thick, that might help you figure out how much wood is on top of the sub floor.


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## zannej (Jun 21, 2017)

nealtw said:


> That short wall beside the door. The bottom plate of that wall is sitting on the sub floor. That 2x4 is 1 1/2 inches thick, that might help you figure out how much wood is on top of the sub floor.


Good idea. I'll have to take a look at it-- and I'll have to see if that wall actually rests on a joist. Some of my walls don't even have bottom plates or any floor under them in spots.


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## nealtw (Jun 21, 2017)

zannej said:


> Good idea. I'll have to take a look at it-- and I'll have to see if that wall actually rests on a joist. Some of my walls don't even have bottom plates or any floor under them in spots.



most times those walls don't need to line up with a floor joist. With enough layers of flooring the bottom plate could be below surface.


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## zannej (Jun 22, 2017)

nealtw said:


> most times those walls don't need to line up with a floor joist. With enough layers of flooring the bottom plate could be below surface.


I've since sealed it up, but I discovered a few spots inside walls where there was no floor at all underneath parts of the wall. Just gaping holes and a flashlight let me see the dirt on the ground below. LOL.
I'm going to wait til this tropical storm blows through and tackle that wall (once i get my prybar back) to get it out of the way so I can get a better look at the floor.

Flooring forum people recommended having two layers of subfloor to reduce problems from movement.


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## nealtw (Jun 22, 2017)

zannej said:


> Flooring forum people recommended having two layers of subfloor to reduce problems from movement.



Yeah they say that. 
A friend of mine had a squeaky floor and I said we could just build a pony wall in the crawlspace but the flooring salesman convinced her that all she needs is another layer of plywood and then lino.

The floor still squeaked so they came back and added more staples leveling compound and more lino. It still squeaks and they say they can't be responsible for the structure of the house.

Looking under your house we see possible problems with cut joists. More plywood would never fix it. But that might have been what happened.
Where you could see thru might have been where a repair was done by someone with out the experience to do it right.

You need to train your cat to carry your phone and take a movie down there of the floor from below.:thbup:


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## mabloodhound (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm late to the party, but yes, you definitely want flashing under that door.  A pan is good.  I use lead sheet (roll) and make my own flashing.  But something is needed to keep the water out and prevent rot.


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## zannej (Jul 17, 2017)

mabloodhound said:


> I'm late to the party, but yes, you definitely want flashing under that door.  A pan is good.  I use lead sheet (roll) and make my own flashing.  But something is needed to keep the water out and prevent rot.


Thanks! I still need to buy the wood for the header and get that put in. I'm very bad about procrastinating.


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## zannej (Sep 3, 2017)

I read on some blog somewhere that someone used a 4x4 post instead of sandwiching boards together for a header. Do you think that would work? Or should I have a 4x6 like this? http://www.homedepot.com/p/WeatherS...ft-2-Pressure-Treated-Timber-260430/100062638

(I may consider getting one or two of those to strengthen the joists-- I think they ran the plywood parallel to the joists rather than perpendicular-- but since I'm going to gut it, I might do it differently, although I'm not having much luck finding the tongue and groove plywood that is actually available in my area).


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## mabloodhound (Sep 3, 2017)

First, there is no reason to use PT lumber on an interior wall.  I build all my headers using 2x8 with plywood sandwich glued up and nailed...much stronger than a single 4x4 post.
As for tongue & groove plywood on a wall...it's not needed.  I only use T&G on floors.  And yes, plywood on a wall should be run horizontally for the best strength over 8'....less joints...unless you're just doing a patch.

Dave Mason


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## zannej (Sep 4, 2017)

mabloodhound said:


> First, there is no reason to use PT lumber on an interior wall.  I build all my headers using 2x8 with plywood sandwich glued up and nailed...much stronger than a single 4x4 post.
> As for tongue & groove plywood on a wall...it's not needed.  I only use T&G on floors.  And yes, plywood on a wall should be run horizontally for the best strength over 8'....less joints...unless you're just doing a patch.
> 
> Dave Mason


The header is on an exterior wall and I live in an area with extremely high humidity. 

The tongue and groove was intended for the floor-- not the walls. I plan to re-use some old wall panels for the wall material. 

When I was talking about the direction of the plywood, I meant for the floor as well. Hence the mention of joists instead of studs. 

I think my joists are 24" apart but they might not be a standard distance-- I won't know until I measure them and the weather hasn't been agreeable for doing so. I want to reinforce the floor under where I want to put a bathtub and the washer and dryer. I want to make sure it has sufficient support. I was thinking of the PT post for box joists under those areas.


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## zannej (Jul 7, 2019)

I'm still procrastinating on this one. Since my last post a few things have happened. My friend's father & grandmother both passed away. He's working 2 jobs & works 6 days a week. On his 1 day off, he often gets roped in to fixing things for family members or friends so he doesn't get much rest.

The back door has deteriorated more & the pet door fell apart & fell out of it. I purchased an 40"x40" awning to go over the door on the outside. It's got metal brackets with clear ABS for the "roof" part. It will allow light in but should deflect the rain. I'll just need to find a good way to anchor it & figure out the best way to put it up. But, I really need to replace the back door & may have to do it before replacing the subfloor. I'm wondering if I can just cut out the part where the threshold will be & put in some new lumber or composite material & install a plastic sill over some flashing tape (I want to make sure no water gets in). I am actually thinking of seeing if I can install a new header & adjust the cripples & king studs to make the top part level without removing the existing door so that I can get the awning up.

When I do work on the floor, I'm thinking of using 1-1/8" cat PSI-9 tongue & groove plywood. It is supposed to work as a single layer subfloor. It will be heavy since it is so thick, but I will only need 4 sheets & won't have to worry about staggering the seams as much. I will probably have to sister the joists to make them level.


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## nealtw (Jul 8, 2019)

If you do the door first and change the floor under it put 2x4 block on the flat under the seam to the old floor


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## zannej (Jul 9, 2019)

Thanks, Neal! It's been too long since we've chatted. As always, I appreciate your help. 
A 2x4 sounds like a good idea. When I cut away the rotted part it should also let me see how thick the subfloor is. I really wish I hadn't procrastinated on this so long because prices for some things have gone way up.


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## nealtw (Jul 9, 2019)

zannej said:


> Thanks, Neal! It's been too long since we've chatted. As always, I appreciate your help.
> A 2x4 sounds like a good idea. When I cut away the rotted part it should also let me see how thick the subfloor is. I really wish I hadn't procrastinated on this so long because prices for some things have gone way up.


I would use two layers of plywood, when you cut out the old one with a circular, it keeps you 1 1/2" off the wall so you add the 2x4 blocks between the joists to make the connection with plywood the same thickness and then you cover both with the next one.
On the side where you are going in the same direction as the joist, you need blocks to go from joist to the joist under the wall every 16" and then fill the gaps with the same 2x4 blocks.
If the blue line is the old floor the red blocks are the 2x4s


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## zannej (Jul 17, 2019)

I was actually thinking of using some 2x6s as reinforcement on the edge that will have the laundry appliances and bathtub. I may have to sister at least some of the joists to get the floor level because I know it slopes.


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## zannej (Nov 17, 2019)

I'm still procrastinating & trying to get my thoughts in order. I was looking at the pictures again & I'm not very happy with the king studs (I think those are the ones that support the header). I was thinking of removing them but that would be a pain so I might sister up next to them & have new king studs that go all the way up tight to the bottom of the new top-header.

I'm almost wondering if I can get away with just patching the floor where it is damaged instead of replacing it entirely (bc holy crap the price of plywood has gone up!) but I'll have to see about that when I have more demo done (and major cleanup bc that area has turned into a junk bin). I need to tackle the weeds that are clawing at the back door & starting to grow through the hole where the cat door used to be. Worst case scenario, I can make adjustments to door height a 2nd time if I end up having to replace the entire floor & I can use transition strips between threshold & flooring if new floor ends up lower or I can trim a little more if new floor ends up higher. I may be able to add a 1/4 plywood underlayment over things after taking care of the door area but before putting in finished floor. (If it wasn't so expensive, removing all of the floor would be good to gain access for plumbing-- but if I cut holes large enough to climb through or at least reach through, I might be able to have access to plumbing. If it comes down to it, my beloved friend has admitted he owes us both of his kidneys at this point & would be willing to crawl under the house to places my fat behind won't fit. 

The awning I got can be either 40" wide or 80" wide so I can put up 40" width and then expand to 80" later.

My plan thus far:

Find where tf I put the new cat door & take it to the workshop
Drill & cut hole in new door for cat door
Paint new door (maybe w/ Behr one-coat exterior paint-- my sister's house has Behr paint & it's great)
Prime & paint awning brackets
Check floor for level diagonally, perpendicular, and parallel to door (make sure floor doesn't slope up to be scraped when door swings)
Remove old threshold & cut away rotted floor to find thickness of floor and patch w/ 2x4 or 2x6 (or whatever size is needed to fill the gap)
Use leveling compound if there is too much slope (I've figured out how to make smaller batches that are easier to manage)
Create new header with two 2x6s sandwiched together (glue & nails?)
Remove hinge pins on old door to get it out of the way & make it easier to remove old framing
Use a piece of vinyl plank to gauge height needed for new door for clearance (1/4" or 3/8" gap above finished floor sufficient?)
Remove old door trim, jamb, sill, etc (some may already be done from previous step)
Replace any rotted wood if necessary
Install sill pan & wrap with self adhering flashing, & caulk
W/ correct heights known, cut new king studs to proper length & sister to outsides of old king studs (or just set them next without tethering)
Remove cripples & old 2x4 header (or at least loosen cripples so they are not in the way-- wiring may make this a pain; might need to just measurex2, mark, & cut cripples in place)
Install new header on top of king studs
Adjust old header to give 82" clearance from threshold top & use shims to make it level
Cut cripples to fit tightly between top of 2x4 & bottom of header & jam them in (tethering method nails at an angle? Glue? both?)
Add internal blocking for awning support (I think they need to be spaced 40" apart-- can awning be screwed in to the header from the outside?)
Figure out desired height and position of awning (Note to self: find specs for awning to determine height of brackets where they meet the wall)
Create support frame for awning (it has two long PVC bracket/side supports & a translucent plastic panel for the top that is held in when the brackets are secured in place so putting them on a frame to get it together might help and then frame can be screwed to blocking &/or header)
Install z-flashing and/or head flashing on top of door frame
Install new door & cat door- caulk around edges
Replace old exterior door trim w/ PVC or something waterproof
Measure & mark floor for cuts for plumbing rough-in & electrical (if any goes through floor-- might go through walls instead)
Remove old wall paneling & add insulation
Get whole house surge protector installed & make sure there is a proper grounding rod (add 1 if necessary)
Replace old wall paneling & install new wall paneling over bare areas around door
Replace exterior light that broke during hurricane (probably will be underneath awning)
Remove cinderblock steps, level ground, & install proper concrete steps OR build small landing (can be done later after steps replaced)

I hope I didn't miss anything.
I'm still trying to make sure I'm clear on exactly where the sill pan would go (below the threshold & finished floor?)
I'm also trying to figure out what is available for me to use as a finished door sill beyond the threshold so the threshold won't wobble like the one at the front door.
What is the best paint for coating smooth PVC (I will sand it to rough it up & probably use primer-- want to have it be satin or gloss white)?
For the header: Wood glue or construction adhesive to bind the pieces?
100% silicone or door & window caulk?

I'll have to come up with some sketches of my plans to lay things out better. It has been very cold coming from that back area now that the weather has dropped to the 30° range so this needs to be addressed before it gets colder.

Any thoughts (other than to get my *** in gear?) My friend only has 2 free days a week but he's also having issues bc his ex has been giving him problems w/ custody & the other friend moved out of state so he won't be helping. 1st friend has promised to make time to help when he can though.


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2019)

Did you buy a prehung exterior door with a threshold?
Did you check the total  height of the door jam and compare that to what room you have. 
Silicone, is saved for bathrooms, not to be used in most places. There are other paintable caulks 
Hard to say what is going on with the floor until you get into it. 
Not a good winter job. The door and door jam should be pulled and floor ripped open a little. 
At that point decisions will have to be made and maybe more supplies, that might leave the house open for a few days. You would just nail up temp plywood but that does nothing for your heat or lack of heat.


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## nealtw (Nov 18, 2019)

This picture leaves lots of questions about the floor.






And this would be the normal


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## zannej (Nov 18, 2019)

nealtw said:


> Did you buy a prehung exterior door with a threshold?
> Did you check the total  height of the door jam and compare that to what room you have.
> Silicone, is saved for bathrooms, not to be used in most places. There are other paintable caulks
> Hard to say what is going on with the floor until you get into it.
> ...



The prehung door came with a threshold.
Do you mean the existing door jamb or the new one? I measured from the top of the floor inside the door to what passes for a header- it was uneven (I think one side something like 81" and the other side 82" but I noted that the floor sloped downward to the left while facing the outside). I haven't measured that mess under the threshold yet.
The picture you re-posted of mine is one of the things that troubled me. I highly doubt any sort of flashing was used. I'm not even sure if that door was original to the house or if someone added it later. I will check to make sure I have the proper lumber available before any cutting & I will patch the floor asap. If I have to take the door out for more than a day I will hang up a moving blanket in the doorway (so the cats can still get in & out). I believe I have a clear plastic tarp I can put on the outside part to protect it from rain as well.

I definitely want to work on at least some of this before it gets colder. I'll have to talk to my friend about his schedule & see when he can come help me.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2019)

zannej said:


> The prehung door came with a threshold.
> Do you mean the existing door jamb or the new one? I measured from the top of the floor inside the door to what passes for a header- it was uneven (I think one side something like 81" and the other side 82" but I noted that the floor sloped downward to the left while facing the outside). I haven't measured that mess under the threshold yet.
> The picture you re-posted of mine is one of the things that troubled me. I highly doubt any sort of flashing was used. I'm not even sure if that door was original to the house or if someone added it later. I will check to make sure I have the proper lumber available before any cutting & I will patch the floor asap. If I have to take the door out for more than a day I will hang up a moving blanket in the doorway (so the cats can still get in & out). I believe I have a clear plastic tarp I can put on the outside part to protect it from rain as well.
> 
> I definitely want to work on at least some of this before it gets colder. I'll have to talk to my friend about his schedule & see when he can come help me.


A repair to the floor should be under the threshold too. It has been a while and boy that is a lot of reading to get the memory back.


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## zannej (Nov 19, 2019)

I found the pet door! Now I need to get my mother to pick paint she likes for the door. We were going to go to the store today but I kept getting woken up last night & early this morning. Might go in a bit. I need to get my jigsaw back from my friend (who is currently working on my brother's truck).

I'll probably have to drill inside behind the threshold to see what condition the wood is in. Pretty sure all that mess & the sill will need to be cut out and replaced.

There is a sill that extends out a little bit below the height of the threshold (and obviously it has rotted). I need to measure the depth of that to determine what width board I will need to replace it- although I will try to see if I can find something waterproof. Would that go under the sill pan? Or in front of it sort of? Whatever is underneath it I intend to cover with flashing.

When I was talking about the door not being original I meant doorway. I know this door wasn't there when we left & it's clear the tenants screwed it up when they replaced the steel door that was there with a crappy wood one. But it doesn't have a proper header so I'm guessing it was a modification done later (although I haven't examined the other doors in the house to see if they have headers).

I'm going to try to do this in manageable steps but I'm trying to keep in mind that I want it done before December.


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## nealtw (Nov 19, 2019)

The door threshold should sit on the sub floor. So when you measure for the new door fit you should be measuring from the floor inside to the header, your new door is likely more than 82" high.


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## zannej (Nov 20, 2019)

The door width (including the jamb) is 37.5" and the height is 81.625" so I agree it would probably need to be a little over 82" to fit properly once the finished floor is in. I'm halfway tempted to use housewrap on the floor underneath the vinyl planks, but I don't think it is designed for floor applications.
I purchased the paint for the awning & my mother picked a color she liked for door but it was from a Glidden brand paint & we want to use Behr. Not sure if Behr will color match a Glidden chip. HomeDepot says their paint coloring machine has many options and can use a spectrographic analyzer on samples brought in. I'm hoping this would work for Behr's single coat exterior satin paint. 

But, cutting for the pet door takes priority. I need to find a time when my friend is free to help me because it's too heavy for me to lift it on my own & my brother whines too much when I ask for his help. Unfortunately, my friend injured his back at work & is spending his next day off going to the doctor for an MRI. I suppose I could see if I can maneuver the door by myself tomorrow. I plan to pop the hinge pins out & put the door on the work table.

I need to stop procrastinating!

I'm also thinking about my bathroom floor & just now realized a ratio for the floor leveling mix that might be easier to manage. I should try to get my tools back from my friend tomorrow. Forgot the last time I was over.

Note to self: Stop procrastinating!!!


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## zannej (Nov 25, 2019)

This is a crappy sketch of the doorway & sill from two different angles. On the top there's a metal threshold, underneath that are two layers of plywood (which are cracked & splitting apart horizontally & vertically). The door sill is below the 2 layers out in front (not sure what it's sitting on). Vinyl siding covers whatever is under the sill. From eyeballing the plywood my guess is that it's at least 1-1/2" thick- possibly 2".


Is it normal for the exterior sill to be that much lower than the threshold? (I'm pretty sure it's NOT normal for the plywood under the threshold to be exposed like that)
When I do repairs, should I bring the sill up higher so the back is level with the plywood (or whatever substrate I use under the threshold) and slope it downward toward the outside?
When I install the flooring, should the new flooring run under the threshold or should I cut it to go around the threshold? (or should I have some sort of filler under the threshold?)
If I used a Suresill pan, how far back should it go & how far should it protrude out (if at all)?
Can I overlap flashing on the top of the plywood under the threshold (so long as it is hidden)?

I think I know the answers but I'm second-guessing myself & want to be sure.



I tried to post the other day but it's been raining so much my internet went out & it never posted.


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## nealtw (Nov 25, 2019)

zannej said:


> This is a crappy sketch of the doorway & sill from two different angles. On the top there's a metal threshold, underneath that are two layers of plywood (which are cracked & splitting apart horizontally & vertically). The door sill is below the 2 layers out in front (not sure what it's sitting on). Vinyl siding covers whatever is under the sill. From eyeballing the plywood my guess is that it's at least 1-1/2" thick- possibly 2".
> 
> 
> Is it normal for the exterior sill to be that much lower than the threshold? (I'm pretty sure it's NOT normal for the plywood under the threshold to be exposed like that)
> ...


This is the normal 





Soo if you have layers of plywood on the floor and you are leaving them there they should be extended out under the door, so it looks more like my picture with just a much thicker subfloor. 
It sounds like you have an out swing door so some cheating could be done but the ugly bits of plywood on the edge would have to be replaced with something that would look nice and match your finished floor. 
Confirm that the door is out swing.


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## zannej (Nov 26, 2019)

Thanks, Neal. 
I'm not sure what exactly happened with how they cut things for the doorway. Maybe the subfloor used to go out further & got cut off, but it's hard to tell.
The door is an INswing. The new door is also an inswing.
When I take things apart I'm going to see what the situation is under the existing sill. I really think whoever installed the doorway in the first place didn't know what they were doing.

I'm *still* waiting to get my tools from my friend. Every time I ask about it he changes the subject. I think one of his recent houseguests who was kicked out for stealing (as well as other issues) may have stolen my tools and he's afraid to tell me. I noticed my bag of tools wasn't where I left it & my box of Matrix attachments hasn't been seen in months. I haven't seen my compressor or nail gun even though he kept telling me it was in a specific room, but when I looked in that room, it wasn't there. I'm going to have to confront him about it & make sure he understands I'm not mad at him if the stuff did get stolen but that I need to know so I can get replacements. If they haven't been stolen, I want to bring all my tools back home so I don't have to worry about them getting stolen because he is not good at judging character on people and keeps letting moochers & thieves crash on his couch for weeks on end.


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## nealtw (Nov 27, 2019)

The measurement of the door you said was 81?high, inswing doors prehung with threshold are usually close to 83" high.


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## zannej (Nov 28, 2019)

The door description says its an "entry" door 
*Common: *36-in x 80-in; Actual: 37.5-in x 81.625"
*Rough Opening Width (Inches)* 38.25"
*Rough Opening Height (Inches)* 82.125"

I'm glad you asked about that. I'll have to make sure the header is higher than that. This is the door: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Masonite-D...-x-80-in-Actual-37-5-in-x-81-625-in/999918544


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## nealtw (Nov 28, 2019)

zannej said:


> The door description says its an "entry" door
> *Common: *36-in x 80-in; Actual: 37.5-in x 81.625"
> *Rough Opening Width (Inches)* 38.25"
> *Rough Opening Height (Inches)* 82.125"
> ...


That should sit on the inside floor level so you new floor buts into the threshold.


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## zannej (Nov 29, 2019)

Thanks. I'm also considering getting https://www.lowes.com/pd/Royal-Buil...n-x-5-5-in-x-8-ft-Common-PVC-Board/1000443069 for the door sill. Mfr said it's OK to use as a sill. It's meant for exterior use & I can probably paint it if need be to protect it from the sun. I'll have to measure to see if I need to raise the sill up more. Time to make dinner though.


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## nealtw (Nov 30, 2019)




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## nealtw (Nov 30, 2019)




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## zannej (Dec 2, 2019)

Thanks, Neal! I watched the first video and was bugged that they didn't use the pvc glue on the lip going up to seal it (it probably wasn't necessary, but I would have done it to make it stay together).

I'm watching the 2nd video now and got a chuckle out of "John checks his notes for jokes... No jokes". Ok, The narrator for that video is great. Make sure you're using an actual drill while the guy in the video is saying "Make sure you're not just making noises with your mouth." I love when humor is incorporated.

I noticed there was a metal sill for that door that seemed to have come with it, but I'm not sure. I will have to look to see if my exterior door came with that type of threshold/sill. If not, I can still go with the PVC and paint it.

I'm leaning toward using the SureSill because it slopes to direct the water. I found that blue flashing stuff on amazon (the stuff you talked about way earlier in the thread). I'm probably going to have to nag my brother to help me on his days off because my friend just tore a muscle between his shoulder and back all the way up to his neck & the doctor said he's out of commission for the next 6 weeks.

I believe the door frame I got splits in half down the middle so worst case scenario, I can take the door hinges out to remove the door, then move the frame & put them both in my truck to take up to the back of the house and see if I can lift things in by myself. Need to find my steel-toed boots in case I drop something on my foot.


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## nealtw (Dec 2, 2019)

Non of these guys do every step but this will give you an idea of actually setting the door in.


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## zannej (Dec 3, 2019)

Thanks!
I saw comments on the video saying they should hide the screws behind the weather-stripping but I'm not sure if it makes that much of a difference. I would just putty over the screws & paint so they wouldn't be visible.

I'll use spray foam instead of fiberglass insulation though-- compressing the insulation the way he did doesn't make it very useful. Gonna see if my brother will help me with the door sometime today (to get it up on the work table).


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## zannej (Dec 4, 2019)

I found out that the "solid core" of my door is actually some kind of foam. I pre-drilled holes in 4 corners for the pet door to make it easier to use the jigsaw. After I cut I discovered that the blade was just shy of being long enough to go all the way through (and they don't sell longer blades). So I flipped the door over and had to cut on the other side. The steel started to peel back and tear instead of cutting off though and my battery got low on me. Need to go get my charger and get the battery back up to full power to see if it helps with the cutting. I should have cut the hole just a little larger than I did because now it's going to be a royal pain to get it cut right. The pet door did not come with templates or written instructions. Just drawings which I tried to follow- except the swinging door part didn't want to come out for me to trace. Apparently the hole needs to be a little larger for the inner side frame. I also managed to get the cut slightly crooked so the frame warps just a tad and the outside piece wont fit inside it but they both sit flush against the door well enough. I don't like the jagged steel & the foam just being exposed like that so I'm going to get some kind of tape (maybe flashing tape) to put on the inside. Instructions didn't say what size hole I'm going to need for the screws & they don't seem to be self-tapping. Worst case scenario if the pet door doesn't line up perfectly, I can use caulk. I plan to caulk around the outside perimeter anyway-- think I'll use clear caulk since the door will be painted blue. Or paintable caulk that I can paint blue afterward.
I'm about to head in to pick up mail and get my charger. I'll update after I charge my battery and see if that helps with the cutting. I may have to break out a dremel tool to trim just the steel part enough so it won't be peeling & tearing.


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## zannej (Dec 8, 2019)

I had to get a new mandrel for my Dremel tool but the battery went out on me. I tried charging it but I used an outlet that needs to be replaced so it didn't charge during the daytime. I got it fully charged last night & I'm about to go out and see if it will work now. It's not strong enough to just cut straight down in to the steel but I found if I cut in from the edge it actually starts to do some cutting. I got a little teeny bit trimmed before the battery went out. My friend suggested rolling the steel inward somewhat. I might try a grinding wheel on the edge a little. I'm trying to figure out what type of tape would be the best to use on the edges to cover the foam & hold the steel against it. Once I have it taped I'll get the paint & paint the door. I'm wondering if there's anything I can use to smooth out some of the dents it got on the outside, but they aren't major. Maybe the paint will cover it up.
My mother was saying I should do like in some TV commercial and build a frame for the pet door but I have no idea what commercial she's talking about & it sounds like it would be a royal pain to do. I'll update after I take another crack at things with the dremel tool in a few minutes.


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## zannej (Dec 8, 2019)

Been too long to edit my post so I'm updating. The dremel tool managed to trim the steel enough that I could fit the inside panel of the pet door in snugly. I was trying to make it stay tight & marked the screw holes. Then I realized something: The screws are meant to anchor in to wood. Being that the inside of the door is foam, it wouldn't hold the screws very well. So I'm going to have to see if I can find bolts of the same diameter & head size to run all the way through & then use nuts on the inside to hold them on. It won't look pretty but it should hold stuff on.
I still need to flip the door over & work on the other side a little to make sure the outside panel fits snugly, but the battery ran out on the dremel again. I have it charging & am trying to get my mother up to go pick paint colors at HD. Hardware stores in town are closed today so I'd have to go to one of the big box stores to get stuff. The pet door did come with doublesided sticky tape, but I don't trust that to be secure enough. I want to make sure this thing stays on.


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## nealtw (Dec 8, 2019)

zannej said:


> Been too long to edit my post so I'm updating. The dremel tool managed to trim the steel enough that I could fit the inside panel of the pet door in snugly. I was trying to make it stay tight & marked the screw holes. Then I realized something: The screws are meant to anchor in to wood. Being that the inside of the door is foam, it wouldn't hold the screws very well. So I'm going to have to see if I can find bolts of the same diameter & head size to run all the way through & then use nuts on the inside to hold them on. It won't look pretty but it should hold stuff on.
> I still need to flip the door over & work on the other side a little to make sure the outside panel fits snugly, but the battery ran out on the dremel again. I have it charging & am trying to get my mother up to go pick paint colors at HD. Hardware stores in town are closed today so I'd have to go to one of the big box stores to get stuff. The pet door did come with doublesided sticky tape, but I don't trust that to be secure enough. I want to make sure this thing stays on.


If you drill a small hole, sheet metal screws will work good for that.


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## zannej (Dec 10, 2019)

Tape didn't want to stick to the foam very well so I decided to nix it after several attempts (I'm a total monkey with anything adhesive-- the tape stuck to itself several times & got stuck to my hand a few other times). I got both pieces fitting together and used some #6-32 bolts. Can't remember if they came with nuts or if I misplaced them somewhere, but I can't seem to find them. I tried the #8-32 but they were too large. Unfortunately, the longest length they had in the 6-32 was 2" and I think I need 2-1/2" which would have to be special ordered. I had to do some adjusting and drill a little more to get the bolts to line up and go through properly but they did go through. Now I need the nuts to see if they can go on. If there isn't enough room I will have to special order the longer bolts. I've been trying to get my mother to go with me to the store to get the paint (because I can't get the 10% discount without her there & the paint is expensive). I think I may have to still use the tape on the deeper frame to hold it in place and then slip the smaller one inside & bolt it down. It's sort of weird, the deeper frame goes on the inside of the house but goes around the outdoor part goes inside of it. I was typing up inside and outside frames but realized that would be confusing. LOL. I want to get the door painted before I secure the frame fully. I also want to pre-paint the trim & jamb then do touch-ups once it's installed. Right now its just primed. I plan to touch-up the primer on the door before doing the paint. The door got some scratches & dings and I'm hoping the primer will help disguise that.

Mom likes the Deep River paint color, which I think they can mix up in the store if they don't have it in stock.

I haven't taken more pics  yet since I didn't take my phone back down to the workshop, but I took a pic after I drilled the holes & then after I cut the piece out--  you can see how the steel snagged & tore instead of cutting at the top. I think it was because the battery started going out but I didn't notice until it was too late because I was determined to get that thing cut. LOL. 



I had to recut that curved edge on the left so it didn't stick in as much.


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## zannej (Dec 11, 2019)

The 2" bolts barely went through so they are too short but I found some #6-32 in 3" at the local hardware store & got 6 of them (2 extras in case of stripping, breaking, or loss). Good thing because I misplaced one of them. The shorter bolts did come with nuts though.

I tested to make sure the bolts went all the way through the holes without the pet door pieces. Then I tried to fit them together but they wouldn't line up. Redrilled, enlarged the holes, etc & tried again. The bolts will slide right in to the inner pet door half from the other side but I have to use a screwdriver to get them to go through the outer half (and I start from the outer half). I was having a hell of a time with it. I had to flip the door over again & I've decided to nix the idea of painting the door and then putting the pet door on because that will be a royal pain & I will probably scratch the paint while trying. So, once I get both halves on and secured they are staying there. I'm going to caulk around the pet door & then use painter's tape to cover the pet door & paint the door. I'm hoping that some primer might help hide some of the scrapes on the door from flipping it over & moving it around. The door came primed already but I want to use primer over where it got scraped off.

I did end up using some of the white duct tape I got to seal up some corners and hold the steel tighter to the foam. When I was drilling out the holes in the square corners the foam started eroding a bit too much & I could see the bolts but there is still steel holding them in place. I reinforced the corners with tape. When I get the inner frame in place permanently, I'm going to put tape inside & wrap it around the steel edge on the other side to seal it up & hold it tight before putting the outer half on. It's going to be tricky to make sure everything lines up.

Right now I have it set in place with the bolts going through just the holes (without the other half) and through the inner ring to make sure it lines up enough. When I put the two halves together without the door in between the holes line up. The bolts slide through the holes in the door relatively easily now so I'm thinking of screwing them in to the outer frame so they stick out far enough to go through the holes in the door & stick out the other side enough that I can make sure they line up with the other half, then tape the bejeezus out of the inner frame to lock it in place, and finish screwing in the bolts & securing them with the nuts. I can trim off any excess that sticks out too far from the door frame & I'll hit them with white paint. The nuts are too large to fit inside the holes meant to hide the screws.

It was cold and rainy today & it was dark, cold, and rainy when I left the workshop. I have one more picture I didn't upload (my computer isn't reading my phone so I have to send it to myself via FB messenger & download). I did upload a few more photos though. I have the urge to go back down there to work on it now but not in this rain & with it being so dark. LOL.

This is the threshold that came with the door & frame (floor needs to be re-sealed):


This is the frame from afar with the door on the work table. The ladder behind goes up to the little loft area over an insulated room (there is a tropical poster on the door to the room): 


Outer pet door piece in place: 


I traced around the pet door with pencil in the hopes it would help me line it up again when I go to put it back on. There were only 2 lights on in the workshop but they are LEDs and they are *very* bright so they lit up the whole room. The old fluorescent lights sucked. I had the paintbrush on the door to sweep away debris after drilling & cutting. I had to crack out the dremel to smooth out the steel where the drill bit poked out and pushed it out a bit & then I used a hammer to flatten things even more.


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## nealtw (Dec 12, 2019)

This is what you should have had.  Screw and barrel nut.


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## zannej (Dec 14, 2019)

My problem is getting the bolts to go through both halves of the pet door. I had to adjust holes on the door multiple times to try to get them to line up. I got it so that the bolts would go all the way through one piece & through the door but when I tried to fit the other piece on it didn't want to line up. So then I tried with putting the inside piece on and just sliding the bolts through the holes on the opposite side & putting the nuts on to see if it would sit snug-- it did. But when I tried with the other half the bolts didn't want to fit through the holes the same way. I had to walk away bc I got frustrated & didn't want to break something. Bc I got to the point where I tried to pound them through with a mallet. The inside piece kept pushing out when I tried to put outside piece on so I flipped the door so that part was on top but then the bolts kept falling out & I didn't have a good way to maneuver when I was trying to hold the other piece on. That was about the point that I walked away. I thought about it and decided to try again where I put the bolts through the door & through the inside half & secure it with the nuts. I then taped the crap out of it (covering the rough metal & exposed foam) to secure it better. Then I flipped the door over but propped it at an angle so I could see underneath. I took note of which bolts went through which holes and then pushed the top piece down and tried to push bolts through. Some went through most of the way, one went through all of the way. I unlocked the flap so it would open enough for me to put in clamps but that still didn't help bc the plastic corner of the inner half kept pushing out anyway. I now have two of the bolts through and secured with nuts (top left bolt and bottom right bolt) but the other two don't want to go through. I might go to the store and grab more bolts that aren't bent on Monday to see if that would help any. It would probably be easier if my friend hadn't lost my screwdriver heads for my Matrix. I can't find a single one of them in my Matrix kit (and I'd had several) or in the little notch on the tool itself where a two-headed bit is supposed to go. I'll have to see if it's in my tool bag that is at his house. The little handheld skinny screwdriver doesn't give much grip for turning and takes forever. Worst case I'll drill holes through the inside piece & use washers to secure the nuts if the holes are too large.


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## nealtw (Dec 15, 2019)

The big hole in the door should be big enough so you have a little wiggle room to help things line up.


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## zannej (Dec 16, 2019)

It was just a problem of getting the bolts to line up. If the door had been wood or solid inside, the bolts would have gone straight through-- but the foam deteriorated and allowed the bolts too much wiggle room before they reached the end. I took another crack at it. I brought a flashlight so I could see if there were any obstructions, wallowed out the plastic a little bit to allow the bolt to slide better. I had pushed the bolt through the 3rd hole all the way & started turning it with the screwdriver. It pushed the plastic on the other end enough that I could see where it was coming out & adjust the angle of the bolt in the opposite direction so it would meet the hole. That seemed to do the trick. The last hole was the biggest problem because its the one I had to redrill more than once so the foam inside was pretty much gone & let it move too much. I had to find a bolt that hadn't been bent and play around with the flashlight. I stuck drill bits (not attached to the drill) through the hole to test the movement and clear debris. I drilled to enlarge the hole in the steel a little more. I enlarged the hole in the plastic a little with the drill. I managed to get the bolt to go through the opposite direction just fine but when I tried to push it back the other way it didn't want to cooperate. I got it to the point where I had the door on it's side so I could reach through the opening of the pet door and push the bolt through while looking at the hole to see the end of it. I got it right to the opening but it wouldn't go through. When I tried turning it with a screwdriver it slipped out of alignment & wouldn't go. I finally got it so it was lined up & tapped it with a mallet (I used the mallet a few times to get things to go through) & it worked. So now I have all 4 bolts in. I got some washers I'm going to use on the inner half and then I'm going to trim off the ends of the bolts that stick out too far. I got some door & window caulk to put around it-- supposed to be ready to paint within 20 minutes but I'll let it sit for a few hours & put primer on it just in case.

I still need to buy some primer. I need something that I can lay on thick enough to cover some of the scrapes & dings on the door. It got pretty beat up before I got the moving blanket in there.

I'll take some pictures & post them later.


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## zannej (Dec 17, 2019)

I got the washers on-- made sure to secure the pet door with clamps so I wouldn't have any problems with stuff popping out.
The door got some nasty scratches but I think I can use filler primer on it (This is the inside half):





The bolts stuck out quite a bit once they were through and secured with washers so I trimmed them with the Dremel



I put white tape over them


I got 3 of the caps on the outer side with no problems but the last cap (the one that was the hardest to get a bolt through) was really giving me trouble. I ended up having to lay the door flat & tap the last one in with a mallet. I then tapped all of them for good measure to make sure they were tight. Killed 2 more wasps in the room while I was at it (still not sure where they are getting in, but they are very slow & there are a bunch of dead ones so something is killing them in there).


Next step is the caulk. It was already cold and dark by the time I finished so I wanted to wait for it to be a little warmer before I applied the DAP door & window caulk. I'll have to pick up some filler primer for the deeper scratches & maybe some regular primer to touch-up the surface scratches. I've been told the filler primer I want is rather thin so hopefully it will go on smoothly without any problems. The store doesn't have the paint I want in stock but Behr's reps said I can have it mixed in the store-- just said to tell them which base and which color pigment to add.


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## nealtw (Dec 17, 2019)

With a steel door they fill dents with automotive bondo.


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## zannej (Dec 17, 2019)

nealtw said:


> With a steel door they fill dents with automotive bondo.


Like this: It doesn't say "automotive" but Rustoleum's answers to questions say it is for automotive. It's similar to bondo in spray can form. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Automotive-11-oz-Gray-Filler-Primer-Spray-249279/202097276
They are mostly light scratches but there are some that could use a little bit of build-up from the filler. It can be "wet sanded" as well as dry sanded.


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## nealtw (Dec 18, 2019)

I don't know,.  bondo would be more for dents, it's like fixing drywall.


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## zannej (Dec 18, 2019)

Yeah, It doesn't really seem to have dents so much as scratches. Worst case I can spray it on and if it doesn't work I sand it off and try something else. I got the caulk put around both sides. I'll have to check it tomorrow to see if it cracked overnight. It should have dried before it got cold.


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## zannej (Jan 3, 2020)

No pictures, but I put 2 coats of the filler primer on now-- waited 24 hours in between. 1st coat went on dark but was so light when I checked on it that it didn't even hide the discoloration on the door. I'm going to have to do some sanding on it today to see if it helps. I'll need a better mask though since I don't have good ventilation and the stuff is strong. I sprayed some a little too thick so it pooled & I tried to wipe it away & it just smeared-- but it covered some of the scratches better. I'm going to see how it looks after sanding. I'll probably put the door down flat instead of upright & use a brush or roller to spread the stuff for the next coat. Worst case if it doesn't hide stuff, the door is steel clad so I can put a decorative magnetic sticker over the biggest scratches. LOL. Maybe I can pull the whiteboard sticker off the side of the fridge & my brother & I can leave each other notes.


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## zannej (Jan 8, 2020)

Just sanded the last coat of filler primer and sprayed on the white primer. For some reason the white primer came out inconsistently & was very splotchy. I'll take pictures probably tomorrow. I'm going to go over everything with a tack cloth before I do the top coat. I'm not really concerned about the primer being splotchy because there is primer underneath (that I lightly sanded and wiped off prior to adding more coats). At one point a bug somehow got in and landed on the fresh paint so I had to remove it and it messed up the smoothness of the primer, but it's on the side that will face the outside & I don't really care much. From videos and pictures I've seen, the Behr Marquee can cover flaws somewhat decently anyway. I just wanted to make sure the color underneath didn't have too much contrast between gray & white. Hopefully I'll only need one coat of the Behr paint.
I'm thinking I might actually do the paint on the door frame before I do the paint on the door or I might do them both the same day. I just need to grab another cardboard box to put underneath the threshold. The drop cloth I got from Walmart was friggin' useless because they somehow glue it to itself so it wouldn't unfold. Not sure how they did it but it is more like a tube that can go around something & won't come apart to fold out & wasn't even a full 10" wide.
The tougher thicker weeds in my yard have dried up more so I can snap them off & other weeds have died (although the blackberry bushes are still just as thorny as ever).


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## zannej (Jan 9, 2020)

Since I'm forcing myself to not procrastinate as much, I fought the urge to wait until tomorrow & made myself go down to the workshop to take some pictures & do the topcoat on the side of the door that dried for 48 hours. There were a few mishaps- random hair got on the paint, a bug landed on it, & at one point the moving blanket (in a plastic bag) that I used to protect the door from the sander (which is too heavy for me to move) fell on top of the fresh paint so I had to fix it. I never used a foam roller before so there was a bit of a learning curve. I didn't have the best prep area so I dripped a little on the floor & some plastic boxes but it doesn't bother me. I got out a new paintbrush, unwrapped it from plastic, then set it down and have no idea where I put it, so I'll have to do touchups tomorrow. The color is very nice & I'm OK with how it turned out with the 1st coat.
I showed pics to my mother but only thing she noticed was that I missed a spot on the side. I pointed out that I'd get that later.
BEFORE



AFTER


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## piper27 (Jan 10, 2020)

Have been following this thread. It's been a long haul for you, but you've done a great job!


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## zannej (Jan 10, 2020)

Thanks, Piper. It feels good to actually be making progress. It's slow, but at least it's progress.


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## Jeff Handy (Jan 10, 2020)

Hope you don’t get birds flying into that door, thinking it’s the sky. 

Just kidding, very nice blue color!


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## zannej (Jan 10, 2020)

Thanks, Jeff!
I went down and painted the other side, but I will have to do a 2nd coat on the first side. I'm still trying to work out the best technique with the roller. Hopefully a 2nd coat will make it look better. I didn't get around to painting the frame yet-- I want to make sure there was no wet blue paint in the area to contaminate the white because I'm a monkey. I'll need another painting pan as well.


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## zannej (Jan 16, 2020)

I forgot to get pictures before doing the 2nd coat on the inside half of the door but it looks great after drying. I did get pictures of the other side with just 1 coat on. It doesn't look as bad as the other side, but you can still see the color is uneven. I should have flipped over the cardboard I used because it had dirt that stuck to the door (will probably wipe off with a damp cloth). Had the same situation with something that stuck to the wet paint pulling paint off when I plucked it off so I did a tiny bit of touch-up (after I took photos). I also found that the cardboard on the other end slipped and let something metal scratch the paint a bit but I touched it up. I'm going to wait for it to dry before doing the full coat tomorrow.
I got pics of the mold or whatever the schmutz is on the door frame. Tried to spray it with Killz but at first it wouldn't come out and then it dripped from the sprayer all over my hand while I was spraying & didn't spray evenly. Either I just suck with spray cans or I've been having bad luck with the sprayer nozzles. I've sprayed stuff in the past and not had these problems but they are different types of nozzles on these ones.
Mold or whatever it is on the door frame: 




1st coat of paint after drying: 





2nd coat on the other side after drying: 



If the tape comes off of the nuts & bolts I will spray them with the metal primer & then paint over them with the same paint I'm using for the door trim (a semi-gloss white).

Any suggestions on how long I should wait to remove the painter's tape? I don't want to pull it too soon and have it peel paint off but also don't want to leave it too long and have it mess things up.


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## Jeff Handy (Jan 16, 2020)

Kilz has a mold killing primer, FYI.
You might do just as well with a wipe down with Tilex, or bleach and water, careful not to wipe anything that will show later. 

Ace Hardware near me in Chicago suburbs carries it. 
I think it cost me about $15.00 for a quart.


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## zannej (Jan 17, 2020)

Yeah, I've used the can type of mold-destroying Killz before. I used it liberally in my bathroom after some plumbing leaks. I used to have a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff-- used it on my friend's kitchen in the house that eventually burned. I may go grab some of the paint on Killz prime for mold since the spray kind is wonky. I believe we painted the entire workshop in Killz before.
There's no Ace Hardware in my area but Walmart tends to carry Killz. I can try some clorox wipes on the mold as well.


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## zannej (Jan 27, 2020)

Last time I went down to the workshop I did another coat on the exterior side of the door but accidentally scratched the inside part which had been finished (I was trying to flip the door over on it's side and it slipped and fell and hit something-- scraping paint off). I'm going to get my 2nd moving blanket and carefully wrap the door in it before I try flipping it again. Some of the paint peeled off when I removed the tape from the pet door so I did some touch-ups. I used the white paint over the dremel marks on the pet door. I'll probably paint the exterior pet door white as well just to protect the plastic from the sun. It's been cold and rainy so I haven't gone back down to the workshop. Got a bit of a virus my brother brought home from work & have been trying to stay hydrated. I've been cleaning up inside the house instead, but I really need to get to the back door area. 

Looking at the pictures I realized I don't have enough room to sister up new king studs like I wanted. 





So, I'm wondering if I need to replace the existing ones entirely or if I can build up on top of them using 2x4 blocks.
Question: Do the king studs have to go all the way up to the header uninterrupted or can I have a 2x4 brace for the top of the door frame sandwiched in between? So, I'd have it like the current situation where the king studs go up to the 2x4 but then I'd have another 2x4 on top going up to two 2x6s sandwiched together as the header.


or should I slightly notch the king studs (less than halfway through) to fit the 2x4 in- creating a large dado)?



Or should I just make the header wider and trim the studs that currently go all the way to the ceiling to put the header in?

If I do the first one, I will sister the king studs to the main studs that support the ceiling since they are right next to one another.


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## nealtw (Jan 27, 2020)

zannej said:


> Last time I went down to the workshop I did another coat on the exterior side of the door but accidentally scratched the inside part which had been finished (I was trying to flip the door over on it's side and it slipped and fell and hit something-- scraping paint off). I'm going to get my 2nd moving blanket and carefully wrap the door in it before I try flipping it again. Some of the paint peeled off when I removed the tape from the pet door so I did some touch-ups. I used the white paint over the dremel marks on the pet door. I'll probably paint the exterior pet door white as well just to protect the plastic from the sun. It's been cold and rainy so I haven't gone back down to the workshop. Got a bit of a virus my brother brought home from work & have been trying to stay hydrated. I've been cleaning up inside the house instead, but I really need to get to the back door area.
> 
> Looking at the pictures I realized I don't have enough room to sister up new king studs like I wanted.
> The new threshold will sit on the subfloor, not like the old one.
> ...


This will work fine and there is something goofy about that light box too.
BTW, the king studs are the tall ones on each side and the ones supporting the header are jack studs.


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## zannej (Jan 27, 2020)

nealtw said:


> This will work fine and there is something goofy about that light box too.
> BTW, the king studs are the tall ones on each side and the ones supporting the header are jack studs.


Oops. I've been using the wrong term. Thanks! King studs for all the way to ceiling-- jack studs for the header. I'll try to remember that.

Goofy? Reminds me of an off color joke about Mickey Mouse divorcing Minnie Mouse. LOL. It's a DIY job. I'm not sure what sort of box should be there. Worst case scenario, I can replace it with a different type of box. I'm going to have to bump it up a bit for the 2x4 to be adjusted.
I need to measure again to see if both of the jack studs are too short or if it's just one of them.


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2020)

zannej said:


> Oops. I've been using the wrong term. Thanks! King studs for all the way to ceiling-- jack studs for the header. I'll try to remember that.
> 
> Goofy? Reminds me of an off color joke about Mickey Mouse divorcing Minnie Mouse. LOL. It's a DIY job. I'm not sure what sort of box should be there. Worst case scenario, I can replace it with a different type of box. I'm going to have to bump it up a bit for the 2x4 to be adjusted.
> I need to measure again to see if both of the jack studs are too short or if it's just one of them.


Don't start on the header, you may have things to fix at the floor that would or could change measurements for the door.

Goofy light boxes. It is facing in but looks like it is for an outside light.
For the outside you drill a 4" hole just thru the siding and use a flat box and drill a hole thru the plywood for the wires and clamp.


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2020)

https://www.menards.com/main/buying...trical-boxes-buying-guide/c-1459706409557.htm


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## zannej (Jan 28, 2020)

Neal, Ah, Ok. I thought the box being plastic was a problem. The light that used to be there was fine but it got destroyed by flying debris during a hurricane. Never got around to replacing it. I'm seriously thinking of just replacing it with a solar powered light instead. 

Good point about working on the floor first. I really need to replace the light bulb in the fixture in that area so I can see better and work on clearing out the crap in the hallway. I really need to suck it up and stop procrastinating on that front.. It involves a lot of bending and I won't have any help on it-- and it's mostly my brother's stuff. I need to see what to throw away, what to wash & either store in bins or donate. Unfortunately, I won't have any help on it, which is frustrating.


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## nealtw (Jan 28, 2020)

zannej said:


> Neal, Ah, Ok. I thought the box being plastic was a problem. The light that used to be there was fine but it got destroyed by flying debris during a hurricane. Never got around to replacing it. I'm seriously thinking of just replacing it with a solar powered light instead.
> 
> Good point about working on the floor first. I really need to replace the light bulb in the fixture in that area so I can see better and work on clearing out the crap in the hallway. I really need to suck it up and stop procrastinating on that front.. It involves a lot of bending and I won't have any help on it-- and it's mostly my brother's stuff. I need to see what to throw away, what to wash & either store in bins or donate. Unfortunately, I won't have any help on it, which is frustrating.


A plastic box is okay there too, just don't see them very often.


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## zannej (Jan 6, 2022)

I'm thinking about this again because Mom has been nagging me about getting it done. Still have to get my brother's crap out of the way, get some working lights in the area to see, demo walls on the adjacent bathroom (no plumbing in the walls now to worry about but the room is filled up with stuff so it will have to be relocated. I still need to repair/replace subfloor, but I should not have put it off for so long because plywood prices have more than tripled (in some cases quadrupled) in my area and it's only expected to go up more. Still need to install a proper header, put in blocks for the awning, put in proper supports for the back light, etc.

It may cost more, but I'm thinking of being lazy & using Suresill header and sill pans to redirect water. I never did measure the brickmold on the door frame. I'll have to bridge the gap between the brickmold and the J-channel around the current door trim. The PVC boards went way up in price too, but I think I can get some to put in that spot. I'll likely have to paint them to protect them from sunlight though. Which is fine. I have exterior paint. It won't look the prettiest but it will function, hopefully.

I recently learned about something called J-block for installing a backplate for exterior lights on vinyl trim. I can get one like this https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ply-Gem-8-...ain-Vinyl-Universal-Mounting-Block/1000047167  and drill a hole or get one with a pre-drilled hole (although the one with predrilled hole at Lowes was $30+). https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ply-Gem-8-54-in-x-7-52-in-White-Vinyl-Universal-Mounting-Block/50142084

Amazon has this: https://www.amazon.com/Exteriors-MBLOCKR-PW-J-Block-Mounting/dp/B001AY503M/
and this: https://www.amazon.com/Arlington-Plastic-Surface-Vertical-Mounting/dp/B00VX5CX2E/

I'll have to make sure whatever I get fits the base of the light fixture. I'm trying to figure out the best thing to use to bump out the awning a bit more as well. Some PVC boards maybe. Or even some wood boards completely sealed up and painted white.

I'm also debating whether I should just patch the floor near the door, fix the header, install the door, and then worry about demo and leveling the rest of the floor later. I will need to bring one of the vinyl planks up to make sure the door will clear it. I just hope the walls don't lean inward- which would cause the door to tilt. I suppose worst case I could trim and hide any bumpouts from putting the door plumb/level even if the walls aren't. My 4' level disappeared so I'll have to get a new one.

I'm going to have to use the magnetic whiteboard on a part of the door inside because someone went in to the workshop without my knowledge and put the paint buckets and other metal stuff on top of the door, chipping the paint and denting it more. I don't know if it was my brother or a former friend who was hired to do yardwork & ended up just stealing stuff and leaving and refusing to do more work or repay the $.

As an aside, I'm going to use the Behr Deep River paint on the front door once I get it cleaned up enough. Gonna have to scrub it down, sand it, clean it again, prime it, etc first. It will have to be painted while still on the frame though so I'll have to put down plastic to keep paint off the carpet & threshold. I hope the bugs stay away from it long enough for it to dry.


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## zannej (Jan 7, 2022)

I went out and took some pics of the back door today to show how much worse it is now:


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 7, 2022)

zannej said:


> I went out and took some pics of the back door today to show how much worse it is now:
> View attachment 27296
> View attachment 27297


I think it may be time to do something about the door.


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## zannej (Jan 8, 2022)

oldognewtrick said:


> I think it may be time to do something about the door.


I agree. It's just getting people to help me with it is the problem. If its warm enough tomorrow I'm going to see about cutting the weeds (blackberry bushes) at the back. Need some sturdy gloves to block the thorns though. And I should probably get another wheelbarrow or something to put the cut-off parts in. Can't put them in a bag bc of all the damn thorns.


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## slownsteady (Jan 11, 2022)

Zannie, Zannie, Zannie, I love that you're game to do all the stuff on your list. But maybe it's time to get some help. Between all the projects you have and that boat anchor you call a brother hanging around your neck you may never catch up to the rate of deterioration that every house suffers from. With the knowledge you have, you should be able to weed out the bad contractors and find someone that can do you justice. Be your own general contractor!


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## zannej (Jan 12, 2022)

I can't even get any contractors to come out for an estimate. They are too busy working on jobs in own where the roads don't suck. They are still fixing up houses from the hurricanes.


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## slownsteady (Jan 13, 2022)

I suppose that's all the case. Oh well, hang in there!


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## Guzzle (Jan 13, 2022)

That door was proly meant for inside use only.

IDK of a solution when your inbox is filling up faster than your outbox.
The best you can do is set priorities & expect them to shift by the day.

#1 priority: make sure your place doesn't get condemned by the AHJ.

And. . .your brother needs an AHJ.









						Joe Btfsplk - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## zannej (Jan 13, 2022)

LOL. Some things are on hold for a bit. I'm exhibiting Omicron symptoms & my friend just tested positive today. If I get worse or keep feeing sick I'll go get tested, but I'm quarantining for now.

I suppose I can do some stuff outside tomorrow- if its not raining. I need to cut those damn weeds but sun is already starting to go down.


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## Eddie_T (Jan 13, 2022)

If replacement of that door can't be immediate I would recommend picking up a half sheet of thin OSB to cover the lower half if there's anything solid to tack it to. A temporary repair might kick it down the road for a year.

In my area the Habitat for Humanity has a thrift store where one can often find cheap doors and stuff. Also Lowes and Home Depot occasionally have damaged goods marked down (sometimes you have to ask).


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## zannej (Jan 13, 2022)

Eddie, the hole in the door was where a pet door used to be. The dogs and cats still go through the hole. I would have to make sure they were all inside before any boarding up and then I would have them locked in & they would go nuts.

Hoping to get myself up early enough tomorrow to cut those blackberry bushes (once I find my gloves).


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## zannej (Jan 14, 2022)

Today I went outside to try to cut some of the weeds with my mini chainsaw. I got a few down but started feeling overheated. I have to grab each individual blackberry branch and hold it to cut. Wasn't working out so well. I need a cutter that will power through multiple ones at a time. I'll have to see if I can find any. Guy who was hired to do he work took off with all of my weedeating/edging tools.

Anyone know a good non-gaspowered tool type for cutting dry blackberry bushes? They are like wood right now and they move around when cut and get stuck on my sleeves and pants.


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## Eddie_T (Jan 14, 2022)

I use a hand pruner or a two handled pruner for small limbs and tough stuff.


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## zannej (Jan 14, 2022)

I'm thinking of getting some sort of lawnmower to mow the weeds down low.

Am I imagining things, or were there some posts here that disappeared?


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