# Installing Electric Baseboard Heater in Desperation



## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 19, 2015)

The basement section that houses most of our plumbing a very drafty un-insulated area above a (now below-zero) crawlspace. This has always been the hardest area to hold heat. The renovation plan includes pouring a floor and insulating walls - but with still a few more weeks of freezing temps, one of my furnaces has quit and we awoke to freezing pipes. I have a kerosene heater down there now, and a plug in oil-filled heater as well. I went to all the hardware stores around town and they have all been sold out of space heaters for months. In desperation, I grabbed an electric baseboard heater and I'm going to install it under a window that centers one of the 2 exterior walls.

Heater: 1000w 120v

I have a 20amp circuit available that supports 3 other outlets and the clock on the gas stove. The typical load for these outlets is 2 low wattage lights and our percolator in the mornings. I have been known to plug the shop vac in every so often. 

I plan to use the 14g copper that I have on hand. I understand 12g is better, but believe 14g is sufficient. Is that correct?


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## kok328 (Feb 19, 2015)

If it were me, I would fire up all appliances/lights/etc., outlets are tricky as you never know what's going to be plugged into them, so in this case plug in your shop vac and take an amp reading.
The baseboard heater will pull an additional 8.34 amps.  Add this to your full load amp reading and see what the total amperage is.
Fortunately or unfortunately, you won't find anyone here that will advise you that it is Ok to run 14AWG on a 20 amp breaker.
It's not that 12AWG is better, it is code.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 19, 2015)

Nevermind - my code book just confirmed that the 20a circuit requires 12g.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for the super fast reply, kok. 

I have another circuit available but it's 30amp! It was previously in use by a dishwasher, and is now free for use. I'd have to swap out the breaker for a 20amp, though.

Egads. I just want the pipes to make it the next few weeks.


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## kok328 (Feb 19, 2015)

Any chance you can apply heat tape to the pipes ?


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## joecaption (Feb 19, 2015)

There is no 120 volt circuits that would use 30 amps.
30 would be for a 240 volt circuit.
You not over seas are you?


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm just SW of Baltimore, MD. 

The 20 amp circuit supports the clock on the stove and and 2 outlets, I added an outlet for a total of 3. One of those outlets is behind the stove, totally inaccessible. I assume it's 20 amp for kitchen appliance applications?

There is a 30 amp circuit available, too. It supported the dishwasher, before I pulled it. There is one outlet on that circuit between the box and the kitchen, a ceiling mounted outlet supplying a light for the cellar throne.

There are 4 vulnerable plumbing routes in that basement section. 3 are run along exterior walls, and the one that is on an interior wall drains below the frigid crawl space. 

We are maintaining a kerosene heater in that basement room now, it's keeping things above freezing with the help of 2 oil-filled space heaters at the pipes themselves. 

3 more weeks, right? Why do I get the feeling this winter is going to stick around a bit longer than usual...

Just to set the mood...The original stone house was built in 1809, and today this old house is a giant collaboration of stick frame additions filled with a spiderweb of improvements. My task is to clear it down to what utilities are still in use, and bring that up to code. I am doing this renovation slowly, even slower than a weekend warrior.  I have crazy ideas like filling in that crawl space and running PEX across the footprint for radiant heat, Pellet stove(s) to heat the remainder of the home, daylighting...anyway. These old furnaces have served well, and while it's nice to sell an old place with central air, but I am not a fan of forced air heat and do not plan to replace the dying furnace.

And for the record, I dislike the idea of installing an electric baseboard heater in this house. If I do install this one that I bought in desperation, it would only be in place through winter before I'm done with it. I wonder if it can even handle heating this space. Being so reluctant to install this thing, and being so desperate to keep these pipes above freezing, I am open to any suggestions!!!


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 20, 2015)

Heat tape - I hadn't considered it, but that sounds far more efficient and safer than trying to heat this entire space with baseboards and plug ins.


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## Big Red (Feb 20, 2015)

Also, allow every faucet to drip--that will keep the pipes from freezing, also.


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## kok328 (Feb 20, 2015)

TheIcehouse1809 said:


> Heat tape - I hadn't considered it, but that sounds far more efficient and safer than trying to heat this entire space with baseboards and plug ins.



Yea, that's why the pay me the big bucks - NOT.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 20, 2015)

OK - the local hardware store got a shipment of heat cables this morning, and I bought some of the last remaining. I scored the last 2 utility heaters as well. I picked up the last kerosene jug as well.  There's a weird panic as we novices run out and try to address our emergencies with whatever is left on the shelves.

Here's my new question:

Remember that 30 amp circuit that used to support a dishwasher? It's just supporting an outlet now, which powers the fridge. This outlet is exactly where I need to start these heat cables...but I'd like to hear some thoughts from you pros before I jump on it. Somebody mentioned that the 30 amp breaker could indicate this is a 240v circuit. My meter is reading 120v coming through the outlet. 

Fridge @7 amps, each cable at 5 amps, and ye olde chicken coop heat lamp at 2 amps for a total of 19 amps. There's also a high efficiency bulb that is sometimes used, but I think the draw is negligible.


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## kok328 (Feb 20, 2015)

What gauge wire is used with the 30 amp breaker ?


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 20, 2015)

12 G, it's a short run from the box (<5ft).


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## slownsteady (Feb 21, 2015)

If the fridge is plugged in to it, ......anybody ever see a 240V fridge?


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## nealtw (Feb 21, 2015)

joecaption said:


> There is no 120 volt circuits that would use 30 amps.
> 30 would be for a 240 volt circuit.
> You not over seas are you?



There are breaker, 120 volt 30 amp used for RV outlets and the such. But the wire ( I think) should be 10.


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## kok328 (Feb 21, 2015)

It's either a 30 amp singe pole breaker or is only using one leg of a two pole breaker. Definitely should be 10 awg wire.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 21, 2015)

I love having so many pros at the ready!

It's a single breaker occupying a single space in the box - is that what you mean by using one leg? 

Here's the deal, guys. I am working on an emergency set up, one to get these pipes through the last of this everlasting winter. Before next winter this basement crawlspace will be filled, walls insulated and there will be no icy cold air dancing about inside my home. Except in my whiskey glass.

I don't think I have a use for a 30 amp circuit in the long term, so I'll likely swap it down to a 20 amp breaker. But that's not today's job. Today I want to plug in 2 heat cables, and I really don't want to involve an extension cord if I can avoid it. 

If one of these brand new UL listed devices happens to be faulty, the 30 amp breaker may not trip in time to prevent damage. 

If I run them both from a single surge protector strip, it will trip at an excess of 15 amps, right?


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## slownsteady (Feb 21, 2015)

If you are not running new wire - and you shouldn't have to if it's already 12g - then replacing the breaker is really easier than sweating out all these questions. New 20A breaker and you are all set. I'm no pro, but it seems right.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 21, 2015)

I 100% agree - but don't have a 20 amp spare, and there's a blizzard between me and the hardware store.

These 2 heat cables pull less than 5 amps each. I think the surge protector can handle the load, and trip in case of fault.


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## kok328 (Feb 21, 2015)

"_If I run them both from a single surge protector strip, it will trip at an excess of 15 amps, right? "_

Wrong and if you look closely at your surge protector is will most likely indicated that it is rated for 15 amps only.  A surge protector is to protect against a power surge not against an over current condition therefore, the power strip will burn up before the breaker trips and may catch fire and take your house down with it.


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## TheIcehouse1809 (Feb 21, 2015)

Egads.

I thought for sure that a surge protector would trip over anything above 15 amps. 

Last night we ran the kerosene heater in the basement, our brooder lamp under the basement sink that drains through the crawlspace, and an oil-filled space heater in the bath room upstairs. We also sealed off a few sections of the house. Outside temp went down to 4 degrees, and no frozen pipes. 

Tonight it's expected to get up to 34 (forgot what above freezing looked like!) so I won't be itching to use these heat cables in the short term. 

I'll be picking up a 20 amp breaker on my next trip out.

Getting to know this old house is quite the adventure. Thanks everyone for helping me along!


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## nealtw (Feb 21, 2015)

If all else fails leave water running a little, reset the toilet so it runs a little


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