# What do they call this part for the shower



## afjes_2016 (Sep 3, 2021)

Now it is time for me to do my next plumbing job.
It is the tub water system. The cold water squeels like hell and the knob here and there free turns when you shut it off or on and I have to tighten everything down each time. Long story of a person that owned this house (fixer upper) before me.

I have to cut access to the assembly of the hot/cold faucet and tub spout. This I will be doing this weekend sometime since it is a long weekend.

So I can order this part online this weekend what I need to know please is the name of the assembly that contains the hot and cold water knobs and tub spout and the show feed. I plan on using PEX to connect it to the existing copper pipes in the shower area and then down into the crawl space below.  I may just connect the PEX to this assembly and then run the water lines down into the crawl space then into the basement area into where the PEX feeds it and connect from there and eliminate the copper piping.

Is there any specific type of this assembly (once you give me the name of it) that I should look for in the way of one is better than the other? Brand etc? To match the holes in the wall already I have three - hot cold and tub spout so it would have to match.

Thanks


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## Snoonyb (Sep 3, 2021)

Search three handle tub shower valves, and from their open the selected make, model etc to see if they match the dimensions of your existing.

Also because you are eliminating the hard pipe risers, you may need to install some additional blocking, to stabilize.

Just so you know, there are escutcheon plates that address converting from your existing, to single lever.


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## joecaption (Sep 4, 2021)

Whenever possible while doing this I add ball valves, so you do not have to shut the whole house down to work on it.
Any local hardware store, Lowes or HD will have these right on the shelf, why order one?


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 4, 2021)

Thanks snoonyb and joe

Yes, from what I remembered during a few renovations I did electrical in the plumbers did block up that area to help support the valve. Once I open this wall up I will see what I am faced with.

Yes, I like to add ball valves where ever I can. Not that much money and is very convenient so you don't have the shut all the water off.

I guess I will open up the wall. See what I have to work with, take a few pictures and then take a trip to HDepot. I did not realize they have them on the shelves. Great, I may be able to get this done this weekend then. I prefer to go to HDepot than Amazon in this case. I can ask the associate what other parts I will need and also be able to hold it in my hand. Something about holding it before buying it makes me feel better knowing what I am getting.

Well, let's see how I do. I did ok with running the water line for the fridge ice maker etc.

Only have one bathroom so I have to make sure I have all the parts I need first. HDepot is 25 miles on direction and local hardware store has limited parts.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 4, 2021)

Ok, so I cut the sheet rock behind the tub faucet valve. You can see first of all it is down low and right behind a radiator. Also the tub wall where the valve is was built out towards the inside of the tub. You can see they ended up right behind a stud so instead of framing it out properly so they can mount the valve in the cavity they build out the wall and to boot leave no access.

The radiator was put in after I moved in. When we put in the radiator I disconnected the receptacle and put wire nuts on and put a blank plate on..  After I cut out the sheet rock and looked down into the cavity I see the romex going from this box goes down and to the right and crosses over the stud so it is between the stud and sheetrock. Urgh!!  The house that jack built. Good thing I did not cut down further with the oscillator, the line is live.

This is going to be tricky. The right was for me to replace it is to rip out the tub and start all over again but that can't happen. So instead I am going to have to cut further down on the right side of the radiator and hope I will be able to pull the valve out. I'll cut the copper water pipes with a pipe cutter and the 3/4" PVC shower line with my PVC cutter about 9" up from the valve to leave me room to connect a sharkbite.

The connectors that go from the valve hot and cold water to the copper pipes do they normally come with the valve assembly or do I have to get those. I will be connecting PEX to them.

I am hoping I can cut those two metal straps around the valve with my oscillator.

I don't think I will be able to do this over this weekend. Won't have the time to do all this extra work. I would really want to pull the radiator out first. That would make the job much easier. I have to find someone with two large wrenches though. Which way do I turn the nut at the valve to loosen it and take it off. I realize the nut back away from the radiator and towards the valve but I just don't know which way to turn the nut.


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## Snoonyb (Sep 4, 2021)

Looks like fun.

Your oscillator should come with 2 alternative blades which will cut the straps and as for the radiator, hold the nut on the left and pull up on the one on the right.

On 2nd thought, hold the valve and pull up on the nut.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 5, 2021)

snoonyb: yes I have a separate blade just for metal. The one I use for sheet rock and wood I never use on metal to keep it sharp.

Thanks for the info on the radiator nut.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 21, 2021)

.

A little behind schedule here as I have had other things to do first.

I want to get this plumbing done before the cold weather sets in and I have to use the radiator.

The first pic is of the assembly for the tub faucet and the white pipe is 3/4" PVC going up to the shower head.
The second picture is the 3/4" PVC connected to the assembly (arrow pointing to PVC pipe).
The third pic is the pipe coming out of the wall and going to the shower head. 

I am going to replace everything with PEX along with the assembly as I stated prior but I don't know what to do with the 3/4" PVC going to the shower head. When I first thought about doing this I figured I would use PEX with a sharkbite and then just recently realized I can't use a sharkbite with 3/4" PVC. DUH!!

Maybe it would be best to just replace this shower head PVC. I don't really know what to do here guys.  Remember this is the house that Jack Built and this guy used everything other than the correct materials to do everything.

My other concern is how do I deal with the tub spigot? I have no idea what parts to buy for this.

Right now I am turning the cold water on and off with a wrench because the knob for it does not work.

Any help would be great. Thanks!!











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## afjes_2016 (Sep 28, 2021)

.

I figured since I have not had any replies to this thread for awhile that maybe the photos I provided did not give enough detail/information so I opened the wall up all the way. The radiator and electrical has been removed and I have access to the assembly right on up to the shower head.

First pic shows the entire view from bottom to top where the shower head is.
Second pic shows the faucet assembly
Third is where the PVC goes into the shower area where the shower head goes through the wall of the shower
Forth pic shows the shower head pipe coming thru the wall into the shower area.

I will be purchasing all new parts. I will be replacing the hot/cold water copper pipes with PEX. I will also replace the assembly of the faucet and tub spigot. The PVC going to the shower head I will also replace with PEX. I have the clamps, crimping tool, PEX lines, etc for the job I just need to know what parts to purchase.

Again, the shower/tub components in this setup was installed from the front/inside of the shower area building inward more towards the shower area instead of from behind the shower assembly area as normal.

I have no idea what parts to purchase for any of this except for the PEX going to the cold/hot water lines. I don't know what to get in the way of the adapter from the tub assembly to the cold water PEX line. I guess maybe a reducer. I don't know. Also the connector from the assembly running uyp to the shower head. I assume the connector from the shower assembly to I would think 3/4" PEX to the shower head needs to be purchased and does not come with the shower assembly.

I am not going to pull all of this old stuff out until I know for sure I have all the parts on hand and ready to go. Local hardware store has some parts but not a large selection. HDepot is 25 miles away. Once I start this I can't stop as this is the only bathing bathroom in the house.

Thanks for the help, guidance and suggestions.

.


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## bud16415 (Sep 29, 2021)

I think .5” PEX to everything is fine. You may need .5-.5 shark bites where you change from the old copper to the PEX and then the rest will be PEX-Threaded adapters using Teflon tape on the threads.

If it were mine and I was doing the whole job I would get rid of the two handle setup and go with a mixer single handle valve with a ball cartridge inside that is easy to replace if it acts up down the road. The trouble is you might have to change the hole spacing etc. I did one of mine that way and I used the one hole and made a cover for the other. You can mock it all up before ripping the old out so you will know you are not short any parts.


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## bud16415 (Sep 29, 2021)

In my old house I had just one bath room and was worried when remodeling not having a working shower and I bought what they call a plastic hunting camp shower and put it in the basement and ran the drain to the sump and the supplies I put Y connectors on the washing machine and ran hoses to the hot and cold. It was supposed to be temporary and I liked it so much for cleaning up when working in the yard or garage I used it for 20 years. The kit came with everything and was under a 100 bucks, looks like they went up a little. 





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						Mustee Durastall 74.75 H X 32 in. W X 32 in. L White Shower Stall - Ace Hardware
					

The model 68 Durastall Shower Stall is 32 in. W x 32 in. D x by 75 in. high. It is designed as a knock-down shower and comes in a box that is 32 in. x 5 in. x 74 in. The box can be easily taken through doorways or up and down stairs. The 68 Durastall must be assembled on sight and fastened...




					www.acehardware.com


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## Fireguy5674 (Sep 29, 2021)

They make a cover plate which will cover the holes where your faucets are now and allow you to install a single handle valve.  I think someone mentioned that earlier.  If you go to a single handle valve the instructions will tell you NOT to use pex as a supply line to the shower head.  Follow their specs for distance from valve to tub spigot as well or things don't work right when your done.

I like Bud's suggestion of putting in a temporary shower of some sort so you can have the time to fix this right.  If I was doing it, I would cut it all out and start from scratch.  Even if it meant replacing some tile etc.  Your in there, cut it off at the supplies and start over.  JMO.


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## BuzzLOL (Sep 29, 2021)

Note: A single handle shower valve may have the hot and cold supplied from the opposite sides as your old unit depending on brand and design...


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## Ron Van (Sep 29, 2021)

Boy, that is one ugly shower. You shoulda tore that out a long time ago. Anyway, a single handle, either pressure regulated or thermostatically controlled faucet like a Hansgrohe is the way to go. Turn the knob to the position you normally have it (your wife may have a different spot) and the temperature is always just right. I put this one in our old house and am planning on installing one in our new house soon. Pex works with it well.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 30, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, much appreciated!!

I am going with PEX water lines (taking all  copper out) and connecting the water lines down into the basement water lines that are already PEX, so no copper at all. Won't need to sharkbites in this case.

The temp shower is a good idea but would be hard for me to set up in my basement. The drain of the shower would be much lower than the sewer line so I would need a pump I would think. Also don't have the height of the ceiling to work with it, that shower is tall. Also the basement floor is not finished and it has a slope to it so I would have to level it all out etc. A lot of work.

I am going to stick with the three hole setup for now. Yes, the bathroom/tub needs to be ripped out and redone but that is not a priority at this time. I'm not married so I don't have that to worry about.  I don't want to add work to this job in the way of time and also making it more difficult for me to do as I have never done this before.  The 3 hole setup seems more basic to me. Redoing the bathroom would be nice but expensive as the whole thing would need to be torn out. I don't have the funds now. I just put $20,000 into my roof.

Before I rip out the old i am going to put together including PEX the entire assembly outside of the wall, on the floor. I don't care if I waste some pex as the pex I will connect to the valves are only going to be about 5" long. I just want to make sure I will have all the parts. I'll take off the 5" pieces of course when I am ready to install it. Once the prototype is done and I see I have everything then I will rip out the old.

The main problem I see here is that the valve assembly was put in from the inside of the shower and then the wall built outward towards the other end of the tub. So the assembly you see now is behind the stud. I am hoping that I will have enough room between the stud and the wall of the shower so I will be able to pull the assembly out towards me. If there is not enough room to get that assembly out then I'm screwed. There are only a few inches between the back of the assembly and the face of the stud.  What I may do is build a box. Put a 2x4 across and connect it to the two other outer studs above the assembly. Place two 2x4 pieces next to the stud on the right and left and then place the horizonal one on top of the two 2x4 and screw it it really good. Then I can cut that stud that is blocking the assembly out (small section) , this way I will be able to pull the assembly back towards me enough to pull it out of the holes in the shower side. That wall I believe is a load bearing. It was once the exterior wall but the bathroom was built out from the wall. I don't think a small cutout will do any damage as long as I build it up first before cutting out the stud section.

I really wish my old plumber was around. We used to work on renovations together. He is really good and could do this job in a few hours and would not charge me that much for labor. I have done electrical work for him in the past really cheap.

Will someone please provide me with a link to the part (threaded connector) which will connect the pex to either the hot or cold water on the assembly. I just want to see what it looks like and what I will be looking for. I know there are probably a lot out there but I just want an idea.

I could go to my local plumbing supply store in town but I think they will charge me like 5 times more than what home depot would for all the parts.


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## bud16415 (Sep 30, 2021)

afjes_2016 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone, much appreciated!!
> 
> I am going with PEX water lines (taking all  copper out) and connecting the water lines down into the basement water lines that are already PEX, so no copper at all. Won't need to sharkbites in this case.
> 
> ...


Using the PEX to run up to the showerhead is ok but you will have to figure a way to clamp the pipe stem to the wall. The only adapters you will need unless you can find a PEX ready valve setup is ether .50 PEX to .50 NPT ether male or female depending on what the valve you get has. You can get them in straight or 90s. I just use the straights and bend the PEX around a big bend. The benefit of the straight is down the road you could unscrew the adapters off without undoing the PEX. When clamped they will turn and keep a seal. At least within reason. It is handy if you get a little leak at the threads you can tighten it up. In the basement where you tap into the PEX I would put a T fitting followed by a quarter turn valve you can buy them with PEX fittings on both ends.


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## afjes_2016 (Sep 30, 2021)

.

If I do a search of .5 PEX to .5 NPT on the Home Depot site I get nothing even close to what I would think I need.

I know their site is not really good with the search function.

Yes, I realize I will need to secure the line to the shower head.


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## Ron Van (Oct 2, 2021)

Home depot has a ton of them.


Try searching for 1/2" Pex to 1/2"NPT instead of .5"

I can't wait to get rid of my 3 hole shower faucets in favor of a thermostatic mixer. I have to do the kitchen first though.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 2, 2021)

Thanks Ron - that helped.

I'm not ;putting more money into this than just basic at this point. 2 handle and tub spout, nothing fancy at all.

I think what I am going to do is go to the Home Depot and get someone who knows plumbing and have this person set me up from the valve assembly right on up to the shower head and all the fittings needed. Not taking chances on ordering off Amazon or HDepot site and not getting the proper parts.


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## bud16415 (Oct 3, 2021)

afjes_2016 said:


> Thanks Ron - that helped.
> 
> I'm not ;putting more money into this than just basic at this point. 2 handle and tub spout, nothing fancy at all.
> 
> I think what I am going to do is go to the Home Depot and get someone who knows plumbing and have this person set me up from the valve assembly right on up to the shower head and all the fittings needed. Not taking chances on ordering off Amazon or HDepot site and not getting the proper parts.


That’s the way to do it. Have your dimensions hole to hole for the valve and start there. Know what you want to do to get thru the wall and secure the shower head.



Then the trick is finding someone at the big store that actually knows something. I have spent hours there pulling out bins and saying nope not that one. Always try and work it out so you need the least amount of fittings. Lay the parts out on the cart or a wagon so you can visualize everything.

The beauty of PEX is you can mount everything and then connect it like you are doing wiring and the PEX is the wire. Once you get familiar with all the parts out there for PEX it becomes a lot clearer what you will need for other jobs.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 4, 2021)

Yes, what I like about PEX compared to copper piping is that I can before actually installing everything and finding I am missing a part or something is not connected properly I can do a dry-run on a complete assembly right there on the floor. Even using some PEX and then cutting it all off before I install it for real I am not wasting that much material. Even a few clamps that I use etc are no big deal to use and then remove from the test assembly.

Yes, we both know sometime at the big box stores trying to find someone in the department that knows what they are doing is no easy task. I could end up asking an associate in the plumbing department questions and then find out half way thru he/she really does not know as they are just covering the associate on lunch from that department and they are normally in the paint department. That happens a lot there and the worst part is they will normally not tell you that when you ask them questions. You kind of have to figure it out for yourself. Even in the electrical department if I can't find something and ask an associate where it is that is working the department and they have no clue what I am talking about gets very frustrating. Then I have to go searching the shelves for what I want/need.

I think if I can't find someone in plumbing that seems to know what they are talking about I will go to customer service and ask for a plumbing associate, maybe that will be better.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 9, 2021)

Update:
Ok, first step is accomplished. I went to the HDepot today and within 2 minutes in the plumbing section an associate came up to me and asked me if I needed assistance. Wow!! That has to be a first.

First question to him was how familiar he is with bathtub faucet/shower assemblies. His response was not a problem.  I explained to him quickly what my challenge was, he laughed and said follow me. First we went to the wall of tub faucet assemblies - all the different complete sets that are displayed on the wall. I picked out a Moen as I know they are good quality and I did not want to spend too much more than I had to for now.

We spent 15 minutes with him giving me adapters etc which I may need as backup. It is a 25 mile one way trip to the HDepot so I wanted him to give me things that he even thought I may need. Anything I did not need at the end I could return.

So I guess you can say I got lucky with first of all even finding someone and second, someone who knew what they were talking about.

I have a few other projects in the works now before I tackle this. So it may be a few weeks before I get to it. Can't wait too long as I will have to install the steam radiator again which sits right in front of the access to the work area. Cold weather coming up.

Thanks to everyone that suggested and helped.

I'll let you know how it turns out when I am done.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 13, 2021)

I am missing a part. See pic attached. I don't know what they call this part (red arrows). It is for the tub spout from the valve assembly.

A right angle double female connector (1/2")

Also, here is the link to the manual for the valve assembly I purchased.
Moen INS972F - Figure 3A instructs to install the flow director. 1A shows it is there (shower section) first then to remove it and put into the tub spout section. What is the flow director? What is its purpose?

I bought putty and tape. Do I use both on the threads of the connectors or one or the other.

Thanks!!


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## Snoonyb (Oct 13, 2021)

That's standard brass 1/2" 90degree elbow.

The flow director is actually a flow restrictor so that the flow doesn't exceed the 2.5 GPM efficiency standards, mandated.

When they say to remove, then reinstall, it's if the supply lines are from above or below, and you rotate the faucet 180 degrees.
As yours are, and in your configuration, you can leave it as installed and shipped, for the shower arm.

They recommend teflon tape, but you can use either


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 13, 2021)

Thanks for your reply snoonyb - much appreciated.

Would this be the correct elbow to purchase? 

Thanks for the explanation of the flow restrictor. I understand. Since my water feed is from below I will leave the flow restrictor in the shower arm. I was wondering why they kept inverting the assembly. It was confusing me.

Ok, I can use either the putty or the tape.


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## Snoonyb (Oct 13, 2021)

Yep, that's it.

The tape is convenient to use and store, and lose track of, and sometimes the putty, as it ages will form a cake like film.

I'll usually stretch the teflon and go around the fitting twice.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 14, 2021)

Thanks snoonyb - I ordered the elbow.

Ok on the tape.

Now that I think I will have all the parts I need I will try to prebuild the unit without placing it in the wall just to make sure I have the parts and everything fits.


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## bud16415 (Oct 14, 2021)

When I wrap the tape around the male half of the threaded connection wrap it in the direction that when you screw it in the tape end is trailing the direction of turn. Doing it the other direction causes the tape to sometimes bunch up. Try and get the tape close to the end of the fitting but not hanging over. This is not as important on water lines as with gasses or oil fittings where small pieces of tape can break off and plug things up.


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## Snoonyb (Oct 14, 2021)

Also, you'll find that the length of the pipe for the tub spout may need adjustment, and there are escutcheon trim pieces available.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 14, 2021)

Yes Bud I have used plumber's tape before on other projects. I normally make sure that the tape remains flat and I wrap it around the threads as though and in the same direction I would be putting a nut onto the threads. I then take my fingers and place them on the tape and threads once applied and gently run my fingers over the threads in the direction again as if I was threading a nut on it to be sure that the tape is smooth and layered evenly over the threads.

Yes snoonyb I have concerns about the length of the spout pipe. I have a few different lengths (4 and 5 inche) to work with. I was not sure what length I would need. What are "escutcheon trim"? Can you give me a link to maybe one on the home depot site so I know what they look like please.


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## Snoonyb (Oct 14, 2021)

Here's a link; Search Results for tub spout escutcheons at The Home Depot

Another alternative is 2- 1/2" male copper fittings,  and solder the correct length of 1/2" copper pipe between them.


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## afjes_2016 (Oct 15, 2021)

Thanks for the link snoonyb - I understand now.


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 17, 2021)

_Update on Project_

Mission accomplished as of yesterday. New assembly is in and working correctly.

The secret to my success - my plumber finally showed up and did it for me - well worth the money I paid him. He is far below market prices for me since I have helped him out doing electrical in his home for a very reduced price in the past.

Ok, so I cheated a bit on this. I got him here to do the yearly service on the boiler and grabbed him by the arm and dragged him upstairs and said Help Me!! and he did.




Thanks for your advise and suggestions. I watched him do it and I think I may have been able to do it but feel better he did it. Again, I only have one bathroom so that was my concern. If I got stuck in the middle and could not complete it myself then no bathtub until I could get a plumber to the hosue.


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## BuzzLOL (Nov 18, 2021)

Not the same satisfaction and self-confidence as doing it yourself... but... at least... it's done and working...


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 19, 2021)

BuzzLOL said:


> Not the same satisfaction and self-confidence as doing it yourself... but... at least... it's done and working...



Actually there is as much satisfaction and self-confidence as doing it myself. Trying to get my plumber over here and do the work gives me both of those.    He is almost impossible to get ahold of and when you do good luck with him showing up on the day/time that he says he will be there. He was a no show three times over two weeks even just calling about an hour from when he said he would be here.

But, he is a good guy, has a young daughter and single parent. He is very reasonable in price also. Reason why I stick with him. Again, he helped me out giving me work around his house when I needed the money.


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## bud16415 (Nov 19, 2021)

afjes_2016 said:


> Actually there is as much satisfaction and self-confidence as doing it myself. Trying to get my plumber over here and do the work gives me both of those.    He is almost impossible to get ahold of and when you do good luck with him showing up on the day/time that he says he will be there. He was a no show three times over two weeks even just calling about an hour from when he said he would be here.
> 
> But, he is a good guy, has a young daughter and single parent. He is very reasonable in price also. Reason why I stick with him. Again, he helped me out giving me work around his house when I needed the money.


Around here we would say your plumber is as hard to find as an Amish Electrician.    

Glad you got it done and you did the hard part finding all the bits and pieces.


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## afjes_2016 (Nov 19, 2021)

Amish Electrician  -  good one Bud. I had to think about what means for a few seconds but finally got it. Amish usually don't have electricity in their homes so would be no need for an electrician.

I used to live in a city near Lancaster PA. Blew my mind when I went to the local Walmart and Home Depot in the same complex and parking lot. I saw these shelters in several areas of the parking lot. I could not for the life of me figure out what they were for. Ahhhh - then I saw a horse and carriage and realized as it pulled into the shelter. The Amish come to the stores and park their horse and carriage in the shelter.


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