# Dirt caving in under house



## Frank (Nov 24, 2017)

Hey! When I got the house this is the way it was. Actually it was worse than this but I have use jack stands to help lift it because it was settling really bad. 

The problem I'm having is the dirt is caving in on my furnace. I can't just remove that dirt because then the dirt that supports the weight of the house with the jack stands will cave in. So I'm lost on what to do and trying to find a solution that will last a long time and not just something temporary.

I thought about concrete wall like 3 feet tall on three sides but then how would I support the open space and the pressure that the dirt will exert on the concrete wall. I have a few pictures for illustration and a diagram that I drew. Any help is appreciated.

You can see that the plenum is rotted through and I'm going to get that fixed but that was a result of a water leak that happened before I had the house. It baffles me how they just let dirt set on the furnace like that but this is something I walked into it so now I have to fix it.

Again, any help is appreciated! Thank you


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## nealtw (Nov 24, 2017)

Floor joists, bearing wall above ceiling joists above that and maybe some weight of the roof too as well as live loads . Soil condition and type questionable at best.

First thought would be to put two temporary beams in running east and west one north one south of the original pier. remove that pier and do a longer, wider footing and build a section of wall, that would spread the load better on that poor soil.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2jFPPDioDQ[/ame]


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## Snoonyb (Nov 24, 2017)

Is it your intent to attempt this yourself, or are you looking for alternatives in methodology?

Is the pier in the last photo structural?


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## Frank (Mar 7, 2018)

Snoonyb- what do you mean exactly by "is it structural"? I dont think i understand the question.

Its just sitting on those structures of center-blocks


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## nealtw (Mar 7, 2018)

Frank said:


> Snoonyb- what do you mean exactly by "is it structural"? I dont think i understand the question.
> 
> Its just sitting on those structures of center-blocks


 He is asking if the structure will fail, like will the house fall in the hole?
I think the answer would be yes.


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## slownsteady (Mar 7, 2018)

When something is "structural", it means it is helping to hold the house up (really simple explanation, but just to be clear).


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## nealtw (Mar 7, 2018)

I think it is time for a new furnace, maybe horizontal hanging from the joist.


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## Snoonyb (Mar 7, 2018)

Frank said:


> Snoonyb- what do you mean exactly by "is it structural"? I dont think i understand the question.
> 
> Its just sitting on those structures of center-blocks



The question has been addressed, however, it helps if the photo's are more panoramic and include what the masonry is supporting.


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## Frank (Sep 26, 2018)

Hey everyone. I'm sorry I haven't wrote back in almost a year.

Not much has changed because I'm struggling financially but I did add a couple of those foundation posts sold at the box stores. Hold like 14k pounds each.
I STILL HAVEN'T gotten a new furnace because I simply can't afford it.

I ran into another issue. Check this out.... That screwdriver is 6" and I was probing underneath the foundation wall because I noticed that "lip" of concrete and thought "what if the dirt has settled that much and how to fix this.... Wow, this is gonna be a money-pitt it seems. The walls seem to NOT have a" footer". It looks like the walls are just all the same width. 

I found videos online stating you can pour concrete walls beside it and under it in 4ft sections called "UNDERPINNING" and tieing rebarto the existing walls, from it up and pour. Basically a big step next to the foundation.

Im worried about digging underneath the concrete wall... Even if it's just 4 feet because I'd have to dig deep enough for stone and sand as a good base... Then all I have is a crawlspace that I literally crawl in and I can't stand up at ll. The existing walls are 5feet tall from the dirt. 

HELLLLP PLZ


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## nealtw (Sep 26, 2018)

Frank said:


> Hey everyone. I'm sorry I haven't wrote back in almost a year.
> 
> Not much has changed because I'm struggling financially but I did add a couple of those foundation posts sold at the box stores. Hold like 14k pounds each.
> I STILL HAVEN'T gotten a new furnace because I simply can't afford it.
> ...



Remind me, how deep do you want to go. another 3 ft?


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## Frank (Sep 26, 2018)

I think code is 36" but I could be wrong. I don't know how deep to go. I just want it to be strong and dependable. I don't want to worry about it.

I can't afford helical piers


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## nealtw (Sep 26, 2018)

Frank said:


> I think code is 36" but I could be wrong. I don't know how deep to go. I just want it to be strong and dependable. I don't want to worry about it.
> 
> I can't afford helical piers


It sounds easy if you say it fast. This is a full underpinning .
There is another that I am trying to find a video.


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## Frank (Sep 26, 2018)

I'll check it out here soon. Thank you brother. That other place u posted in crawlspace, it opens nothing and it says error. Something isn't right


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## Frank (Sep 26, 2018)

I watched it. There's no way in hell I would've even know where to start. They don't explain nothing so I'm left with a million questions and they never showed how far to dig under the footing or adjacent to/beside it. This isn't something I wanna "guess/hope" goes well.

They also stand upright 100%. I can't stand up lol. Whatever conveyor belt that is is cool but I'm guessing they broke the pieces down small. Who knows?

I didn't see any rebar in the actual pinning. I saw 1 pier done but I'm wanting the WHOLE WALL done because the WHOLE bottom of the wall is showing


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## nealtw (Sep 26, 2018)

You can dig thru that other stuff and see what he did . I would start at the door and dig in so I could stand up most of the time.
this would be the tool of choice. It's a walk behind.


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## Frank (Sep 27, 2018)

I don't know how far the depth they are going inside the walls. Like if I'm looking at the wall Straight Ahead how far do I need to dig towards the outside of the house? Does that make sense? I know that my height will be somewhere about 24 in or I may just go ahead and do 36 inch butt I need to know the depth of how far to dig because if I have to go in more than 12in then that means I need to dig from the outside of the house too and I can only do about a 4-foot section at a time and if I do this all in one big dig out then it will eventually rain because I'm doing all this by myself and I will have rain water all on the inside and that won't be any good


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## Frank (Sep 27, 2018)

When you say door are you talking about the crawl space?


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## nealtw (Sep 28, 2018)

Frank said:


> When you say door are you talking about the crawl space?


Door, yes I meant entrance.
I found a little on benching, they like the dirt from the wall to be lowered at 45* so to come down 3 ft you would be in 3 ft , doesn't sound like it would be worth the effort.
I think you are right about worrying about rain during the job.
Do you want to back up and talk about the furnace.


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## Frank (Oct 2, 2018)

Lol, Im getting a horizontal furnace brother. It'll cost about 4k total with AC. 

Thank you for all the support. I'll try and put rebar in the existing walls and have it tied into the new foundation/steps so I'm guessing I need to dig just below where my dirt is now, throw in some sand, then rock then pour on top of that. Does that sound right?

3" of Course sand, 3/4" drainage rock at 2" deep, then dirt, then rebar axis/grid every 12" horizontal and vertical


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## nealtw (Oct 2, 2018)

Frank said:


> Lol, Im getting a horizontal furnace brother. It'll cost about 4k total with AC.
> 
> Thank you for all the support. I'll try and put rebar in the existing walls and have it tied into the new foundation/steps so I'm guessing I need to dig just below where my dirt is now, throw in some sand, then rock then pour on top of that. Does that sound right?
> 
> 3" of Course sand, 3/4" drainage rock at 2" deep, then dirt, then rebar axis/grid every 12" horizontal and vertical


Footing are never less that 7" thick and if you want concrete to float all the way in and fill the space you would form it so it was about 3" up the wall too.
Doubt you would ever get to full depth but I have been thinking about plan C if you are interested.


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## Frank (Oct 3, 2018)

I don't think my last comment was probably the best for explaining what I meant. I will have a footer that's at least 12 in thick and that's not including the sand dirt and gravel.

However tell me what you got for plan C, haha


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## Frank (Oct 3, 2018)

So far this is the most explanatory things to do. The only question is I'm wondering if he took that rebar that he pushed perpendicular to the foundation wall, How deep did he push it in the dirt. It's there in the dirt and the other rebar ran horizontal or ride along with the foundation wall and it would be supported with the wood frame and he uses but it looks like he just put that rebar straight into the dirt and tapped it in with a hammer or something like that and then he lined up his wooden frames and poured the concrete so it would be fine after it dries.

Another thing I was wondering was how far did he did on the outside of the house from the inside of the house. It look like he was using a small 2x4 lock to shave some dirt off and try to keep it 90 degrees or vertical. I know he didn't have it perfect because he never put a level on it.

Also I noticed he was digging up so I'm wondering how far he dug up to pull some of that dirt away so the concrete to fill that space. I'm guessing he probably dug up two or three in because he didn't spend much time there.


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## nealtw (Oct 3, 2018)

There are some rules he broke with the rebar , You don't want to let the rebar get closer than 2 from the edge of the concrete, so you wouldn't put it in the dirt out the back at all and he left it about one foot out the end of the forms, when it should have been 2 ft for joining to the next one.  Usually you just need 2 bars if the hole is jus longer than 4 ft long you can put your form right against the dirt with 2 holes in it.
With 4 length they push the rebar thru the hole into the dirt 2ft  and anther to  tie them together, So when you dig the next hole you are digging around rebar sticking out 2 ft from the first.
I  would do it more like this with 8 Inches flat under the foundation  and the slop the dirt down and build the new footing wall, something like this picture in four foot length


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## Frank (Oct 9, 2018)

How far do I need to dig towards the outside (if I'm sitting inside crawlspace)


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## Frank (Oct 9, 2018)

Sorry to be having so many questions but I have to do this right or it's all useless. 

How far do the rebar need to be spaced apart and what hi does the rebar need to be from the bottom of the foundation wall. 6 inch or 12 inch or what because I don't want to get too close to the bottom edge and crack it.


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## nealtw (Oct 9, 2018)

Frank said:


> How far do I need to dig towards the outside (if I'm sitting inside crawlspace)





Frank said:


> How far do I need to dig towards the outside (if I'm sitting inside crawlspace)


Our normal footing is 8" deep  with 2  5/8 rebar under the wall I would dig it just to the other side of the wall. in that area you want the rebar 2" off the ground
Rebar always wants to be 2" inside concrete.


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## nealtw (Oct 9, 2018)

Frank said:


> Sorry to be having so many questions but I have to do this right or it's all useless.
> 
> How far do the rebar need to be spaced apart and what hi does the rebar need to be from the bottom of the foundation wall. 6 inch or 12 inch or what because I don't want to get too close to the bottom edge and crack it.


If you build the outer form 5" above the bottom of the foundation, drill the holes for rebar at 2 1/2"


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## Frank (Oct 9, 2018)

Man I feel like a dumbass because I'm lost of trying to understand this stuff.

It's hard to picture what you wrote. I'll just have to get down there and try to do a small model or something and you see how I'm thinking.

It's hard to draw what I'm thinking, especially to make it 3D so you can understand. I'll just get down there and try to show you.


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## Frank (Oct 9, 2018)

Do you have an email I can send you small video that's clear to see? It's more simple than this site.


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