# Reparing small section of rotted exterior wooden panel trim/sil



## Dimeron (Nov 1, 2016)

So a small section of siding trim (which is very close to the window) has rotted. I have chiseled and sawed away the rotted wood.

Photos of the rot after some sawing and chiseling:

http://imgur.com/a/bR5de/layout/grid

So now I'm looking to fix this before winter hits. I'm located in Eastern Ontario, so lots of snow, and the wall is north facing.

Here is my plan, please let me know if I'm missing anything crucial:

1. Insert a piece of wood, 4 1/8th of inch in height and cut to size, into the vertical trim gap. Caulking will be applied to the back, top, and bottom of the wood piece. Nailed it in with 6d penny nails. (making sure to nail to the wooden sheath, not the metal drip edge).

2. For the small area to the bottom left, either cut out a rectangle section, and insert another piece, or fill in the gap with epoxy wood filler. Still deciding.

3. Caulk and repaint.

Rough MS paint sketch up of the plan: http://imgur.com/I6nkERW

Now, I just have a few questions:

A. looking at 4th and and 5th picture, it looks like the bracket that is used to hold the under-window sidings has a gap in it due to the way it is nailed. There is also a gap that go directly into the walls. I suspect this might be one of the areas where moisture is coming in. When the wind is blowing in the right direction, the water falls into the bracket, and then flow towards the trim/sil, causing the rot.

The holes are slightly bigger than my index finger. What would be the best way to seal the hole so water can't get in anymore. Can I just fill the section with huge amount of caulking before nailing in the piece of wood? What about window insulation foam?

B. Would it be worth while to put in some adhesive flashing tapes or tar paper at all the places where I can? The trim is close to a window, but they are not quite window trims. I noticed that there is some old left over tar-paper that has already disintegrated.

C. What caulking would everyone recommend? I have Dap Alex plus silicon. The can says interior and exterior, as well as water proof. Just wondering if anyone would recommend any better alternatives? I live in Canada, so selection might be limited by that.

D. I might need to redo the entire trim or panel later down the line. How difficult would it be to remove epoxy wood filler and construction adhesive from wood sheathing and metal drip edges down the line?

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Nov 1, 2016)

You have a few problems that can, have or will cause problems.
No mater what the siding is, moisture or water will get behind it and needs a pass out.
Above the concrete or bricks there should be flashing that brings the water out, the top of the flashing would be behind the tar paper.
Then the siding doesn't start for about 3/4" above the flashing. That allows water to get out and the height of the back of the flashing protects the wall from wind driven rain.
So there should be no caulking below the siding when done correctly.

I know that was not the question.

Yes I would plug that hole into the track on the right, but I would also drill a few small holes in the bottom front of that channel to let water out.
Your patch ideas will work fine for a time. I think it will not be impossible to clean stuff off when you come back to fix it up later.

Just when you plan the bigger job, do your research and do it right.


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## Dimeron (Nov 1, 2016)

Okay, thanks for the input, will definitely keep it in mind if I ever have to replace that entire panel down the road. The house was build in the 60s, and I think the entire panel was original.

Just few more questions if yo don't mind.

1. For the holes in the vinyl j-channel beneath the window, how big do they need to be? Also, would lots of caulking work to plug the J channel ending?

2. should I put some tar paper or adhesive membrane at spots where it has been shredded? to protect the sheathing wood? or would that not do anything. I can make sure the new tar paper or membrane would be on top of the drip edge, although not sure if it would do anything.

3. Looking over videos on how messy epoxy filler can be, I'm now seriously considering to just cut out a rectangle and glue another piece of wood in there. Would that work better? Would a generic lePage construction adhesive work?

Thanks.


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## beachguy005 (Nov 1, 2016)

Looks like they used horizontal siding and mounted it vertically.  What you should do is pull out that trim, your finger is pointing to, and install the same type horizontally with a Z flashing at the bottom to prevent water from getting behind it.
I would also cut that bottom trim back beyond the rotted area and straight up and down.  Using one piece of new trim that is as tall as your green area and wide as a couple inches beyond the yellow area.  A slight L shape on its back piece of trim.


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## nealtw (Nov 1, 2016)

!/8" to 3/13 holes, a good caulking strip across the bottom to keep the water until it can drain out the new holes
That panel would not be around when the house was built.
I like the idea of removing that bottom piece and replacing it with real wood, even treated wood.  and a z flashing. My fear is that was a pre made panel and you might get into a loosing game.


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## Dimeron (Nov 1, 2016)

beachguy005 said:


> Looks like they used horizontal siding and mounted it vertically.  What you should do is pull out that trim, your finger is pointing to, and install the same type horizontally with a Z flashing at the bottom to prevent water from getting behind it.
> I would also cut that bottom trim back beyond the rotted area and straight up and down.  Using one piece of new trim that is as tall as your green area and wide as a couple inches beyond the yellow area.  A slight L shape on its back piece of trim.



Not sure what you mean by the z flashing. Do you mean the area that's under the window? That might be a bit out of scope and my skill set currently. Can that portion be redone separately at a later date?

I did cut out the yellow area, figured the epoxy is bit too messy to use and hard to remove in the future. 

http://i.imgur.com/Hzi83ut.jpg

Had to make the the piece of wood on the left slightly thinner than the cut out, otherwise it will not go in gracefully due to the bend of the drip edge at the bottom. Figure backing rod and caulking should resolve the slightly large gap (about 3/16th of an inch at widest point).



> I like the idea of removing that bottom piece and replacing it with real wood, even treated wood. and a z flashing. My fear is that was a pre made panel and you might get into a loosing game.



If the same problem arise in the future, I'm thinking about cutting out the entire bottom trim and replace it with a piece of 2x4. Although that will be something for next year at earliest. I assume the z-flashing would go on top of the treated wood (aka, the new bottom trim?)

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Nov 2, 2016)

No he was talking about the same flashing I was below everything behind the paper with a gap between the flashing and the new 2x4 so water can get out and away.


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## Dimeron (Nov 3, 2016)

http://imgur.com/Xy4wEE9

This is what you mean right? Quick and dirty MS paint sketch.

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2016)

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.drip-flashing-2-x-1-34-x-38-in---white.1000108239.html
Yes that works just like that if your sill has a slope. If there is no slope there is a little more to it.
The flashing goes down on the sill and the siding leaves 3/4" of the flashing at the bottom showing.


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2016)

Dimeron said:


> http://imgur.com/Xy4wEE9
> 
> This is what you mean right? Quick and dirty MS paint sketch.
> 
> Thanks.



Just had another look at your photos, in the second one it looks like you have a sort of flashing there.


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## Dimeron (Nov 3, 2016)

nealtw said:


> Just had another look at your photos, in the second one it looks like you have a sort of flashing there.



It does, but it is in a very slight U shape. So I don't think water would actually flow out even without the caulking there. They either get absorbed by the wood or flow into the space between brick veneer and sheathing. Not sure if it is due to age, settling, or installation error (probably the latter). From what I can see, this U shape span across the at least half of the panel.

So it has to be pulled out when the bottom trim (or the entire panel is replaced, the entire panel also appears to be one single piece.). Unless I can nail another piece of drip z flashing on top of it.

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2016)

No I would leave it there unless you think there is more rot back there to chase. If is like it looks it should have run under the window too.
I would try to get the flashing a little behind the channel if you can too.


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## Dimeron (Nov 3, 2016)

Okay, thanks.

I will keep this mind if in the future I need to rip out of the patch repair and replace the entire bottom trim.

You mentioned that if the entire panel is a single piece, I would be running a loss game. Unfortunately, I think the entire panel is a single piece, would replacing just the bottom 4 inches or so affect anything? Or does the entire panel need to be replaced (in which case I might just get a siding company to install new sidings).

Thanks.


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## nealtw (Nov 3, 2016)

I was just thinking the whole thing could fall apart.:hide:


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