# Is this wall load bearing?



## bertfam (Sep 7, 2015)

Hi all,

I am new to the forum. I'd like to expand my son's room my widening the opening of his reach-in closet -- esentially, I want to remove the closet and just make it part of the room.  This involves removing about a foot of wall to either side, plus maybe 18" of wall that is between the ceiling and the casing on top of the closet opening (I believe this is called a header??) 

The room is on the 2nd story of our 1994 home. We are not the original owners, but I do have the original floor plans so I know that the 2nd floor hasn't been altered.

I understand that it is critical to determine whether these wall segments are load bearing. I am attaching a photo of our floor plan. My son's room is marked as "Bedroom #4."

Can anyone help me out? The attic joists do run perpendicular to the closet opening however I don't know whether perhaps the load is being borne by the back wall of the closet??


----------



## nealtw (Sep 7, 2015)

Welcome to the site.
The plan does not tell us anything. A header would be solid wood behind the drywall over the door to support a load from above. You can prove the door area is not load bearing by removing th drywall and see what is up there. You can go in the closet and drive a screw driver thru the drywall and if you find voids you will be fine. That does not mean you do not have a bearing point in one of those side walls. We can get into what to check for that but first look for the header above the door.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks so much for that response. That was super helpful. Soooo, I gave this a try... poked a hole in 4 separate locations above the door frame --- and there is definitely something solid back there, everywhere I tried.   Is there a DIY workaround, or is this the type of situation one ought best to leave to professionals?


----------



## slownsteady (Sep 7, 2015)

Just take the doors off. The rest seems like a little gain for a lot of work. The attic hatchway will complicate this besides.
But let's take it one step further; is there a wall on the first floor directly below this wall? When you look into the attic, do the joists end on this header or the back wall? usually, the joists from either end will meet over a bearing wall.


----------



## nealtw (Sep 7, 2015)

bertfam said:


> Thanks so much for that response. That was super helpful. Soooo, I gave this a try... poked a hole in 4 separate locations above the door frame --- and there is definitely something solid back there, everywhere I tried.   Is there a DIY workaround, or is this the type of situation one ought best to leave to professionals?



Hopefully you were in the middle of the eighteen inches. It will be solid close to the ceiling and close to the door. I would not have expected it to be bearing  but as SNS said it is time to get in the attic and you are looking for anything that ends or lands on that wall, pictures from up there would help.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 7, 2015)

Well, based on the floor plan, the wall below it is 12'7" from the rear exterior wall of the house (I measured it as 12'6"). As compared to the front of my boy's closet, which is 12'3" from the rear exterior wall. So that would suggest that they are almost but not quite on top of one another. Attaching another (probably unhelpful, but hey! It's what I've got.) floor plan. The family room is below my son's room.

(Sorry, no matter what I do this photo seems to rotate when I upload it!)


----------



## bertfam (Sep 7, 2015)

Nealtw -- yeah, in my sad hopefulness I tried up high, down low, in the middle, etc.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 7, 2015)

Slow n Steady -- I am tiny so without a full-on ladder I can't see much up in the attic. Sent the hubs up there and he couldn't tell... said the center line of the roof appears not to align w/ the wall in question, if that helps. I guess I need to get a flashlight and ladder and actually get up there and check it out.


----------



## nealtw (Sep 7, 2015)

bertfam said:


> Nealtw -- yeah, in my sad hopefulness I tried up high, down low, in the middle, etc.



There will be about four short studs up there so a few more holes maybe closer together. The header will be no more that 9" high so  we would expect to find voids above or below the header, so some holes 5" from ceaing and 5" from the door.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 8, 2015)

Tried again. It's still solid everywhere back there.

The situation w/ the room is that a couple of year's ago, we had a roomful of furniture made for the kid (from a local unfinished furniture place that can customize/finish, etc.), so it was great and we had made sure all the dimesnsions really worked with the size and shape of the room. Then we moved. His new room is actually a bit larger, but because of window/door placement, etc. his furniture is just a really awkward fit. There's no good layout. Hence the desire to get rid of the closet, so that I could use that space for one of the larger bookcase/toy storage pieces without it looking like I've awkwardly put furniture in a closet, you know? Here's what it looks like now. If I could get rid of the side parts, the closet goes all the way to the room wall on the left, and about to the near edge of the picture frame on the right.


----------



## nealtw (Sep 8, 2015)

You will need to get into the attic and see if you have trusses (factory made) or rafters (built on site) and then we have to figure out just where loads are landing. A few pictures of the roof structure will get us started. Factory trusses usaully have metal joining straps at every point where wood meets another peice making tri-angle shapes.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 8, 2015)

Ok. I leave for a business trip in the morning, so when I get back on Thursday I'll get up there and take some pics. In the meantime, here is a photo from the home inspection last summer. I don't know which direction the inspector was facing, but it may tell you something about the way the house is constructed? The peak of the roofline runs parallel to the wall in question


----------



## nealtw (Sep 8, 2015)

From that it looks like you will be fine but we should see a few more pics. Those are trusses and if there is no change of directio or anything funny going on , your wall should come up non load bearing.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 8, 2015)

That would be awesome! When I get the new pics up, is there a way to ping you so you can come take a look? Since it won't be for a few days.


----------



## nealtw (Sep 8, 2015)

I am here all the time, others here will help, but if you are not getting an answer you can just hit my name and send a private message. Or if you just hit quote to something I have said and respond, that will get my attention when I come to the site.


----------



## bertfam (Sep 8, 2015)

Ok great thanks!


----------



## CallMeVilla (Sep 8, 2015)

I use this phrase when doing explorations  ---  "Its only drywall."  Meaning, exploratory demolition can be easily fixed.  Your front closet wall is probably no big deal.  A simple header 2x4 header or a doubled header. You might be hitting the cripples which are vertical pieces between the header and the top plate.  I would cut a 20" long rectangular piece of drywall between the header and the ceiling.  (Easy to re-install later if needed).  This will reveal either 2x4 header or a full strength 2x10 header (possibly).

The larger header implies load bearing structure ... or an over-eager carpenter.  Only the attic visit can prove the use of the header and the closet wall.


----------



## nealtw (Sep 8, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> I use this phrase when doing explorations  ---  "Its only drywall."  Meaning, exploratory demolition can be easily fixed.  Your front closet wall is probably no big deal.  A simple header 2x4 header or a doubled header. You might be hitting the cripples which are vertical pieces between the header and the top plate.  I would cut a 20" long rectangular piece of drywall between the header and the ceiling.  (Easy to re-install later if needed).  This will reveal either 2x4 header or a full strength 2x10 header (possibly).
> 
> The larger header implies load bearing structure ... or an over-eager carpenter.  Only the attic visit can prove the use of the header and the closet wall.



In Canada it is a lot less confusing the header is solid wood holding up structure and the arrow in your pic is pointing at the door sill over the door.


----------



## slownsteady (Sep 9, 2015)

If this is all about making the furniture fit, you would end up spending more money on the reconstruction than you would on new furniture. A book case is a relatively easy project, and if you build it to custom fit the closet, you don't have to worry about finishing the outside pieces to match anything.


----------

