# Mixing Valve



## Refuse (Nov 8, 2009)

I have been having a problem with my mixing valve. I have lost hot water for the second time in two weeks. I called in a plumber and they fixed it in minutes by turning the screw on the mixing valve counter clockwise. I have been trying all night with no luck. The other thing that the plumber did was  remove any air from my pipes. Tried that too. Not sure if I did this right. How do I reset the water tank and mixing valve? How do I correctly remove all air from my lines?


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Nov 9, 2009)

If you don't get any response in here, it's probably because people won't be familiar with the "mixing valve" and "air in the lines" you're referring to.

The only place where I know a mixing valve is used in some houses is to mix both hot and cold water to supply warm water to the toilet tank.  That's done to prevent condensation on the toilet tank.  Is that what your mixing valve is used for?  If not, can you let us know what it is, where it is and what it does.  So far as I know, there's no water mixing valves used on hot water heating systems.

Air in your water pipes is only a concern if you're talking about a hot water heating system.  That is, the heating system that heats your house in winter.  If you heat water meant for cooking, cleaning and bathing in a water heater, then you're ALWAYS going to get bubbles of oxygen gas collecting in the hot water supply piping to your faucets, but those oxygen gas bubbles do no harm whatsoever.  Cold water can contain more oxygen gas in solution than hot water, so as you heat cold water in your water heater, oxygen gas can be driven out of solution and will collect as bubbles at the top of your water heater or in your hot water supply piping.  If you turn on your hot water faucet, you will often see/hear a small blast of gas coming out of the spout with the water.  The gas coming out is oxygen gas that was driven out of solution from the cold water when it was heated in the water heater.  You simply run your hot water faucet to remove it from your hot water supply piping.

So, we're not sure if you're talking about domestic water supply piping or a hot water heating system.  A "mixing valve" could also mean a tub and shower faucet cuz no one showers in pure hot or cold water, and those things do have anti-scald mechanisms on them that do have adjustment screws.  Suffice it to say that we're not really sure of what you're referring to by "mixing valve" and "air in the lines", and until we're sure, we can only guess at the problem.

Could you please clarify.  Thanks.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

I do have a gas hot water tank.

Please take a look at this link:
Mixing Valve?

This is my mixing valve and a diagram of how these things work. Or in my case not work. I hope this helps.

The water supply is going to my shower, taps, dishwasher, you name it.

Thank you.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

I do have a gas hot water tank. My mixing valve is used on my hot water tank. The tank is 1yr old and out of warranty.

Please take a look at this link:
Mixing Valve?

This is my mixing valve and a diagram of how these things work. Or in my case not work. I hope this helps.

The water supply is going to my shower, taps, dishwasher, you name it.

Thank you.


----------



## travelover (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm thinking that the OP is referring to the anti-scald valve in the shower. When I first installed mine, tiny particles of grit got into the mechanism and it would not go to the full hot internal position until I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly - twice.

The outer handle doesn't directly control the mix of hot and cold water - it is overridden by an internal temperature sensing control. This control has tight clearances that can be jammed by scale and sand in the water.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

Thank you, I was told by the plumber that it was the anti-scald valve, but he was messing around with that component on the webpage. 

How do I go about fixing this. I believe that you are correct.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

This is not just the shower but all taps.


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Nov 9, 2009)

Honeywell is really good about providing the technical literature that comes with (or came with) their products online.

If you e-mail Honeywell at their "Support and Contact" link on the web page you provided (or phone their customer service 1-800 phone number) and ask where you can find the original literature that came with your model of mixing valve, they should be able to tell you where to find and download it online.  That literature will explain how to adjust the valve, how to troubleshoot problems with it, and probably how to take the valve apart to clean it and how to subsequently reassemble it.  A plumber would need to know all that if there were problems with the valve after he installed it.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

Sorry. It wasn't Honeywell. I just found that online. It was Bradford White. I will try to find a manual.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 9, 2009)

This is not in the manual. Just checked. This is an external component. Apparently this part was installed because plumbers have been sued installing water tanks and leaving them in the wrong position. Scalding kids = lawsuit. Really annoying. And nobody knows how to fix this, remove it or eliminate it.

Time for the plumber I guess?


----------



## travelover (Nov 9, 2009)

It is easy to eliminate it. Just cap off that cold water inlet and bypass the valve with a piece of pipe. Make sure that you turn down the heater to 120 degree F or less, so you don't scald anyone.


----------



## Redwood (Nov 9, 2009)

Just replace the valve.

Also you may want to find a new plumber that actually wants to fix something rather than fiddle around with it charge you and leave.

Also, Air in the pipes is not something that we have a problem with on the typical plumbing systems used in North America.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks guys. 

I was debating about eliminating it or replacing it.
Is there any disadvantage eliminating it completely?
Can I do this myself? 
And I was not planning to use that plumber again.


----------



## travelover (Nov 10, 2009)

The disadvantage to eliminating it is a potential for burns if the water is too hot. That said, most homes do not have one.

If you can do basic plumbing, you can replace it. There are lots of good books on plumbing free at the library or information on line. Sometimes you can even get advice at the big box stores.


----------



## Refuse (Nov 10, 2009)

It is $150 for the Mixing Valve + installation. It is going to be gone.


----------



## Redwood (Nov 10, 2009)

The disadvantage of eliminating the mixing valve is your water heater may have been sized smaller with an increase in storage temperature covering the undersizing. So if you eliminate the mixer you may discover that you don't have enough hot water.


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Nov 10, 2009)

If it was me, I would just eliminate the darn thing.  It's just one more source of potential problems as you have discovered.

If you start to run out of hot water, then if there's no infants, children or incompetent seniors in the house, then I'd just turn your thermostat up.  There's a risk of being scalded if the water temperature is set too high, but as long as you use common sense, there is little danger of that happening.  For example, if you decide you're gonna have a hot bath and fill your tub with hot water and then jump into it, you could be jumping into scalding water.  However, if you check the water temperature before getting in, and realize it's way too hot, and add some cold water, then you won't get scalded.


----------



## Redwood (Nov 11, 2009)

And Nestor would you follow that advice in the apartments you rent out?


----------



## Speedbump (Nov 11, 2009)

Here comes another law suit.  Now all water heaters will have to come with a warning label.


----------



## Redwood (Nov 11, 2009)

Speedbump said:


> Here comes another law suit.  Now all water heaters will have to come with a warning label.



They already do!
And in some places that mixing valve is a code requirement but hey...

Woman Awarded 750K In Shower Scalding - Richard Taylor - WKRG.com


----------



## Speedbump (Nov 11, 2009)

> They already do!
> And in some places that mixing valve is a code requirement but hey...



How naive I am.  I should have known.  People have won lawsuits for practically every other stupid action, why not scalding in their own bathtub.

What would this world be like if we didn't have these wonderful Lawyers to protect us from ourselves?


----------



## Refuse (Nov 11, 2009)

I eliminated the mixing valve. Yeah. 
Wouldn't recommend doing this if you have any potential of being sued.
Otherwise this is the best choice you can make for your house.
The valve was two years old and caked in sulphur and I mean completely useless. This is the worst design ever and I wish when people install hot water tanks they give you an option to opted out. 

Plus it is 10 dollars to eliminate the valve rather then 150$ to buy a new one.


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Nov 11, 2009)

The case of Treon Moorer deserves some comment, since it's anything BUT typical.

Treon Moorer was born with a medical condition that causes her to have frequent seizures.  She apparantly turned on the shower in her apartment, but turned on the hot water faucet only.  Several minutes later, she either tested the water temperature or got into the shower without testing it, and had a seizure as a result of being hit by the hot water.  However, when she had the seizure, she fell INTO the shower rather than onto the floor outside the shower and was further scalded by the hot water.

So, like every accident, there was no ONE single cause.  Rather, you have to have a confluence of contributing factors that lead to the final outcome.  First off, most people don't have seizures that render them helpless to get out of a dangerous situation.  Secondly, most people will test the shower water temperature with their hand in advance to ensure they don't get burned by water who's temperature is unknown.  And, finally, in this case, the woman fell into the shower rather than anywhere else on the floor.

In my case, I keep my water temperature at 130 degrees simply because if someone does scald themselves in my building, they're going to blame me for the water being too hot rather than blame themselves for not being careful.  If I were living in my own house, I wouldn't have any qualms about setting the water temperature to 135 or 140.  After all, we expose ourselves to much higher temperatures than that every time we boil, or cook or deep fry something, and yet most of us manage to survive our kitchens.  Also, it's real easy to get food hotter than 140 degrees in a microwave, and the worst that normally happens is a burnt tongue.

I see this as just another example of litigation with a profit motive in mind.


----------



## Speedbump (Nov 12, 2009)

> I see this as just another example of litigation with a profit motive in mind.



In my opinion that's what all these lawsuits are about.  Because you can't fix "Stupid".


----------



## Nestor_Kelebay (Nov 12, 2009)

I don't think it's simple stupidity.  Or, at least it wasn't in the case Redwood cited.  The girl did have a seizure and did fall into the shower and the hot water did spray on her causing skin damage to much of her body.  That wasn't something that a half minute's worth of thinking would have avoided.

I think it's the fact that the ambulance chasers, once they catch wind of a story like this, will realize that their fee is a percentage of the judgement, and so they do all they can to convince the person to sue, and to sue for as much as possible, not just for costs incurred as a result of the incident.  Any lawyer will kill for a case like this if he figues his fee will be 10 percent of the judgement, and he guestimates the judgement to be in the 6 figure range.

The problem is that the amount and degree of litigation (especially in the USA) has gotten to the point where judges are tossing cases out because they believe they're without merit.  One perfect example was a case where someone sued a company because the company failed to warn him that he could hurt himself if he used their product incorrectly.  The guy didn't use the product incorrectly, and he didn't hurt himself, but still felt that it was appropriate to sue on the basis that the company didn't warn him that he might have hurt himself had he been careless.

Believe it or not, there are NO HANDRAILS on the stair cases in the castles of Europe.  Back then, if you were to climb a flight of stairs while drunk, and fell down and broke your arm, then it was your own doing, and no one owed you anything for hurting yourself.  Nowadays, it seems that people expect everyone else has the obligation to keep them safe.  I disagree.  Each individual has the obligation to watch out for their own safety.  Once people start to take that idea seriously, there won't be nearly as many injuries... ...or lawsuits.


----------



## Speedbump (Nov 12, 2009)

Your preaching to the choir.  I fully agree with what you said.  

I'm not making fun of anyone with a disability either.  Far from it, but people with disabilities do have to be more careful with certain things.  Just like we shouldn't be as drunk as we were when we fell off the stairs.  Being drunk is self inflicted, but it's still a disability when you get that way.


----------



## Redwood (Nov 12, 2009)

Yep I agree Nestor but in my position its a CYA thing so thats all folks...


----------



## Refuse (Nov 13, 2009)

A little off topic?


----------

