# Looking at Buying  Fixer Upper Need Some Advice



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

So I am looking at buying my first house, and I haven't found anything I like in my price range. However this weekend I came across a house that I have completely fallen in love with. It's big, beautiful, and old. Just what I've always wanted. But I'm not sure how to go about getting a loan for something like this. It's listed at 36k and it has a few walls that need repaired, a few rooms need carpet, about 5 or 6 windows need replacing, and when they sided it in 2012 they didn't do window trim or gutters. So I'm wondering what it may cost approximately to get all that done. My dad said probaby about 3000 for all the walls and floors to be done but I'm not sure about the window trim and gutters. The kitchen is already done and so is the bathroom minus the floor, it's plywood. It's a 4 bedroom house, 2300 sqft with 2 living rooms 2 bathrooms and dining room. I just am nor sure what the best way to do this is. I would have about 5k of personal money left after my DP, would a home improvement loan even be worth looking into? I plan to do everything myself minus the outside work. If anyone can give me any advise I would really appreciate  it.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

Here are a few pictures that I took just to kind of show what I'm looking at.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 12, 2015)

Welcome to the site. Congrats onlooking into buying. 36K might buy the lumber to frame that house where I live. Of coarse you never know until you dig in but I would bet you are looking at very old wiring and plumbing. Can't help with finance questions, that's more a local thing. These old houses can be really rewarding but they can also be a money pit.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 12, 2015)

Bud has done a good write up here.
http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=17318


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

It's in a very small town of about 300 people just outside of the city I work in. The siding was done in 2012, water heater in 2013, circuit board and wiring redone 2014, kitchen addition and roof in 2006. Double garage that is double deep, 1/3 acre lot, gazebo, small utility shed, and a nice big deck out back. Basement had copper pipes, and new brick foundation. Hardwood floors throughout. Bathroom has all new pipes, wirlpool tub but no floor.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 12, 2015)

If it was all fixed up like would like to see it done , how much would it be worth? I am not trying to discourage you, I think it's great but it has to work for you.


----------



## kok328 (Jan 12, 2015)

Is that ceiling damage from a water leak?
Will you need to blow in some insulation into the walls?
For financing, talk to you local lending agency.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

The ceilings are covered in wall paper and it's hanging down, not sure why there are holes except for where the electrical was ran. I don't see any water damage but I didn't go in the attic since we did not have a ladder to get up in it. I was planning to hire an inspector to look it over if I did place an offer on it. I would plan to redo at least the exterior walls and reinsulate over time. I could see this being a 15 to 20 year housee for me and have always grown up in home renovation. So this would be a slow going reno. Just fix the major things up and then work on the extras. From what I can tell right off the bat it needs all the wall paper torn down and a few holes patched. A couple stairs need fixed, bathroom needs a floor. There were 5 or 6 windows that needed replaced and a couple carpets torn out. Plus the outside cosmetics. 
What do you think of the outside of the house?


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

Oh and other comps in that town that are decently remodeled and close to same size were selling around 130k range.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

Here are some closer ups of the roof, not sure if they are something to be concerned about.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 12, 2015)

Question for the inpector.
Inspect for new wiring when in the attic.
Height of chimney over roof.
The plate window in the first picture, studs were cut that shouldn't have been, have him check to see if that is showing signs of trouble. It may have been done properly.
Do the inpection with your inpector look at everything he looks at and ask what he is looking for. Anything that interests you and he says is ok, take a picture anyway.
I think the outside looks fine, the deck look like they may on their last legs but it all looks pretty straight.
Before you change windows you want to strWith the wood ip the inside and check the framing for rot and be prpared to fix that when the windows are out.
With the wood trim around the window will allow for full removal and proper new constructure proper installatin of the new ones with out touching the siding.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 12, 2015)

artistkate said:


> Oh and other comps in that town that are decently remodeled and close to same size were selling around 130k range.



That leaves you lot's of room to make some money.
Get your inspectors thought of the venting in the attic, That is one thing I don't like and ask him if it is plateform or balloon framing.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 12, 2015)

Awesome sounds good thank you. I'm going out Wednesday withat my realtor to look at a few other homes  but I feel like every bone in my body is screaming this is my house. Lol. 
From what I could tell the deck was still really good, and I know it needs cleaned but snow had also been meltin making it look discolored.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have been thru this a couple times in my life and both times I would say the homes were in just about exactly the same condition yours is or maybe worse. Before I talk about anything with the structure, and it&#8217;s clear you are in love with the house let&#8217;s talk about the economics of the house. Neal is correct you are almost paying for the property and the well and septic etc. or you could say the framing or any one of the upgrades would get you to 36k. So how long has the house been for sale? And do you know the pricing history of the house? How long has it been unlived in? Do you know the reason for the sale? What are the total taxes per year? Do you know the utility costs? Quite often taxes on these old places are very low and can be a great reason to buy one compared to new construction and save you many 1000&#8217;s over the years you will live there. You mentioned comps in the 130K range close by. Have any actually sold in the last couple years. Small towns are priceless and if it&#8217;s reasonably close to your work that&#8217;s a plus. What are the schools like?

Falling in love with an old house is a good thing in many ways and can be a bad thing if it clouds your judgment to look past the reality of what you are getting into. It&#8217;s also never a good idea to tip your hand to those selling it just how badly you want it. Treat it as a business deal at least until you become the owner. I actually try and find things to discourage myself and estimate things on the high side in my planning process.  

You need to put pen to paper and try and ball park the short term and long term project to really turn this place around for you. The facts are they are asking 36k. If it&#8217;s been on the market a while and the town is still in a depressed state as to home sales. Maybe you offer 28K and they come back with 32k and you counter with 31k or something like that. You are talking about spending about what many people spend on a car or truck and you can have this place paid off in 3 to 5 years. Then for the next 25 years you won&#8217;t be paying some bank interest forever. Remember if you bought that 130k place on a 30 year loan you would be paying back 2 or 3 times the 130k. 
But all great ideas in life have a down side and the down side to doing this on your own without a lot of working capital is you are going to be building sweat equity and asking for a lot of help from friends and family if you have them to help. But it&#8217;s mostly going to be on you. It doesn&#8217;t all have to be done at once but you don&#8217;t want the project to take 20 years ether. You are looking at 2 years of coming home from work grabbing a PB&J and a glass of milk changing your clothes and working 4 or 5 more hours. Weekends will be great as you have some daylight to do outside stuff and some helpers might show up. We can&#8217;t tell you if you are that kind of person or not only you know if you are ready for this. I have found when a person has a passion for a project like this and is doing it for all the right reasons and being smart about it. It&#8217;s not even like hard work it&#8217;s actually fun and something you can&#8217;t wait to get home and get started. 
It has been my experience that people that buy a fixer upper like this and then hire it all done end up paying more than the 130k in your case the comp would be. 

Now for my opinion based on what you have told us and the photos you have shown us and knowing there is a lot more to look at that&#8217;s still unknown. 
I think someone owned this house that was on the right track and the work they did looks good to me. For some reason they got so far and had to stop. I think the house has good bones and if the upgrades are as you described I think you have found a little gem that needs finished up.


----------



## beachguy005 (Jan 13, 2015)

Falling in love with a house is only good for the seller, not the buyer.  As they say ...love is blind.   You need to look at a house as though you hate it so you're less likely overlook its' flaws.
Their are so many things that these pictures show that would concern me.  Just the last photo, how they just pieced in the top trim...and did a sloppy job.  How the gutter butts right up to the house and with the downspout feeding into it.  You know lots of water would splash up and run behind the siding.  One can only imagine what kind of damage is going on under the siding, which you won't be able to see.
There will be issues because this is an old house, because it's been neglected, because someone attempted to do work on it when they obviously had no clue what they were doing. 
You'll have to fix what others have done. You'll have to fix what you can see, and what you can't see. You'll have to change out the windows...frames and all.
All in all....if someone gave me this house for free, I think I would decline.
This appears to be the proverbial money pit.  I can see what you like about it but from my perspective, the negatives outweigh the positives.
Just my opinion.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2015)

I would have never pieced together that trim like that ether and it looks like the plan was to do soffits,  fascia and windows with aluminum and ran out of money and just replaced some of the gutter where needed. So all that pieced together stuff was to be covered up. 
My house we now live in was freshly sided with vinyl but all the trimming was done also. I poked around as best I could before we bought it to try and figure out what they went over. Short of tearing some of the siding off all I could tell is it was covered in the fanfold stuff before siding and I was ok that it was done correctly or good enough. Once we got it and went into demo and rebuild mode I had to add two windows and a door and had a chance to see what was below. In my case it had two layers of siding below the siding. The original wood siding 1890, then some space age 1950 stuff that shall remain nameless, then the fan fold and then the vinyl. I had to get creative with building the new framing out and needed deep jambs coming back. Compared to modern building practices all these places look like a nightmare, but then again they have been standing for 150 years keeping someone out of the weather. I often wonder looking at homes built in the 1980 comparing them to the 1880 now and find 1980&#8217;s are looking a little worse for the wear. 

The house we have now we paid 24k for and put maybe another 15k in with a whole lot of work that rang up as zero, but I know better. We had two types of comments going in. From the good friends they would walk thru and say nothing but eyes said a lot, and then the good friends that were outspoken mostly said I would have turned it down if it was free. After we began tearing into it even the say nothing friends began getting more vocal and mentioning the free would have been too much thing. The truth is they were right because the house sat for over 2 years without heat and a few dozen house flippers looked at it and passed. The reason they passed was one they wanted to resell it and in this town nothing was moving at that time or they wanted to rent it and there are a dozen houses for rent close by that they are giving away because no one wants to live that distance from where they work.  So from an economic stand point the only person I talked to that was seriously looking at buying our house was the neighbor that owns the property all the way around ours. His goal was to rip it down but he saw some high costs in the demo just to make his side yard larger. We were the only people that the location fit and crazy enough to take on the challenge. We didn&#8217;t hire an inspector as I joked his list would be short if he only wrote down what was right.

If I was the OP for sure I would get a siding guy in and explain I want all the eves and windows trimmed in and flashed properly along with proper gutters. Get a quote and double it and budget that expense into what you know you will need to spend right off the bat. You need to have a dry shell around you before you even think of fixing anything inside. That and what your building inspector says should tell you a lot. He needs to know you are buying this as a project and you don&#8217;t need to know every crack in the plaster you want to use his time to look for major issues of concern. Mainly big $ items that are out of your skill set.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 13, 2015)

I called the listing agent and talked to him briefly he was with a client though so he said he would call me back. I will ask him as much as I can come up with and then let you guys know. What are typical things you all ask sellers? It's listed as-is.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Jan 13, 2015)

Ask them to disclose any known defects.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 13, 2015)

If I was selling a house for that price, it would be as is, nothing more to talk about.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 13, 2015)

I was also doing some more digging around online and found that the neighbors house that is 1800 sqft no garage sold for 92k in 2014. And the estimated home value of this one is 185k if it is completely renovated though I'm not sure where they got that number. The appraised value is 58k, but being bank owned I'm guessing they are trying to get rid of it. They do still have electricity, water, and gas on. Estimated utilitis are 150 to 180 a month.


----------



## joecaption (Jan 13, 2015)

I agree that siding is a mess.
The trim, fascia's, and soffits where suppose to be done first before the siding went on.
Not likely your going to have the 40' Ladders, walk boards or siding tools to do that job so going to have to hire it out.
That stoop never should have been built tight to the doors threshold like that and should have been built free standing, and it's missing some of the railing.
$5000.00 on an old house like that would not last me 2, weeks in just material cost.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 13, 2015)

Im loacted in Iowa, stuff here is not overly expensive. My dad hired someone to do his siding, windows, gutters, every thing but the roof and it was 13k. And they have 3 different colors of siding on their house to make American flag in the roof peaks.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 14, 2015)

The house we bought was also a short sale property owned by a bank. In our case the bank was across the country and they only knew one thing about the house and that is they have to sell it. Most likely the information the realtor has is all you will get unless you want to say hi to the neighbors. Chances are the bank is into the house for more than they will get back and there could be other leans against the property. We used a title search and title insurance company to handle the whole closing. There are 1000s of these houses stuck in limbo across the country and these banks that ended up with the paper on them dont want to pay taxes and water bills etc. 

The realtor normally gets talked into trying to sell them as they dont really want to as its as much work or more messing around showing them and there is so little profit at the sale. The one we worked with said at the closing thats it no more short sales for him. 

With the house being as is condition that scares off lots of people. When I bought my first house that was the norm now everyone wants to feel 100% safe before or they wont spend a dime. Thats where the risk reward comes in. joecaption is correct you can blow thru 5 or 10k really fast and unless you are really in the top tier of DIYers you dont want to be on a 40 foot ladder trying to do that trim work. On the other hand its not going to fall apart over night if you can live with the look and save up some money to get it fixed right. 

All these items to think about seem like a million details. A lot of people cant handle thinking about all this stuff and the stress isnt worth the savings for them. The people I feel sorry for and I have seen it many times is the ones that pay top dollar for a house like this after a flipper spent 6 months making it look great. For me if you buy a place cheap and it has some issues down the road it wasnt like you didnt know they were coming. 

That chimney looks like it was taken down and shortened and a liner ran thru it. Get down in the basement and see what the furnace is? My guess is its a newer unit. Check out the electric panel? The service coming in looks to be newer chances are the house has been rewired also. Get into the attic and see what they have done for insulation? Look for water in the basement and any mold. Looks like the house had a couple of additions added. Is there basements under them or access to a crawl space?


----------



## artistkate (Jan 14, 2015)

So I talked to the realtor and I guess it's not bank owned. It was bought by a couple in 1970 and they raised their family in  it and then when they retired they moved to a smaller house and let their kids live in this house, the kids trashed the place and now the elderly couple is trying to sell it. He said all wiring is tied to a breaker, none of it is knob and tooth. Plumbing was redone as well. He said someone else has made an offer but they are having issues getting the loan and encouraged me to go look at and put in an offer if I'd like because they are able to back out still. It makes me think that there isn't really an offer on it. He said as far as he knows there is no water damage, it's all just from the couple's stupid kids.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 14, 2015)

The story doesn&#8217;t seem to go along with the photos. The house wasn&#8217;t trashed the damage was neglect more than anything. The areas that have been worked on are not beat up looking just unfinished. It seems there is always this other couple that just put in a bid but are having trouble with financing. I think I heard about one when we bought our house as well. We had the advantage of buying with cash so that cut out a lot of fooling around with banks. You won&#8217;t know until you talk to a banker what their policy is regarding distressed properties. I have a feeling the size of your down payment along with how good of a deal you can get on it will sway the bank. They want to make a loan but when things get out of the typical mode they really want to be secure and sure they will get their money back if there is a default on a loan. I would say if you are borrowing around what the lot was worth they wouldn&#8217;t have many issues. Sometimes credit unions will loan money for things like this also. We don&#8217;t know your finances but I would be looking for something short term if you can swing it, like 5 years. 

As far as another offer pending and all that. It has nothing to do with you what someone else is doing. If you decide you want to make an offer. Offer what you think it is worth to you and not a penny more. The only smart place to be in negotiating is to know there are another 100 places just waiting for you and if you get this great and if you don&#8217;t &#8220;oh well&#8221; that&#8217;s ok too. Everything is only worth what someone will pay for it. 

You need to take someone with you that understands buildings when you look at it again. Someone that understands your dream but also will give you the straight scoop on what they see.


----------



## joecaption (Jan 14, 2015)

Something's also up with those shingles.
Ether someone's installed about three layers or there shot.
They should be laying on the roof, not all wrinkled up like that.
Steep pitch, multi story, Highly possible there's more then one layer and I'd also guess no ones ever installed new sheathing over the old slat boards so there's going to be some damage.
Going to cost about 3, times as much to reroof as a regular ranch would cost.
$5000.00 may not even cover the material cost.
And It's not a regular DIY job.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

joecaption said:


> Something's also up with those shingles.
> Ether someone's installed about three layers or there shot.
> They should be laying on the roof, not all wrinkled up like that.
> Steep pitch, multi story, Highly possible there's more then one layer and I'd also guess no ones ever installed new sheathing over the old slat boards so there's going to be some damage.
> ...



Joe, Just to clairify. With what we have seen so far and if you were inclined to buy a fixer upper and you were not going to do the high outside work, would you consider a house like this when it is $100k below market value. We also don't know the surprizes in the full value houses.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 15, 2015)

I don't see any issues with the shingles, yes there are a few spots that need redone and I agree the siding would need redone, but I don't see layers of shingles except in the corners. We have decided to look at a couple of other houses this weekend and then put and offer on it, take it or leave basically and if they take it then awesome and if not oh well. There is another house that is listed at 54 that is much nicer but I hate the kitchen, it's small with no room to expand without completely changin the whole downstairs and not sure if wiring has been updated or not.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 15, 2015)

One thing we talked about when we bought our fixer upper was because it needed so much on the interior it wasn&#8217;t going to take any more work to change things that we didn&#8217;t like. In a way the next step up from a house like this can be more work because there is always that not wanting to wreck something that is really ok to change something else you may want to change. The walls we took out and moved or added new were fairly easy decisions to make. 

We also looked at some for 3 or 4 times what we paid and they were ok and livable right off. We looked at the cash flow and said beyond painting and cleaning up the difference in money going out was going to keep us pretty much with what we had in those places. 

It really boils down to if you are the type of person to do a lot of hard work or have the skills to DIY what it needs. There is a huge difference between doing a weekend project and sticking with something for a year or two. If you are then the end result can be really rewarding.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm definitely a DIYer but at the same time I have to think short term as well as long term. I have a 2 year old and need a place we can move into within a month of purchase. I am very ambitious but don't want to be overwhelmed. I do appreciate all the help you have all given me and I know I'm gunna end up with a project house, it just depends on how much I end up taking on. When I look at this other house on Saturday I will definitely take pictures and get as much info as I can so you can tell me which you think would be the bebetter buy.


----------



## slownsteady (Jan 15, 2015)

> It really boils down to if you are the type of person to do a lot of hard work or have the skills to DIY what it needs. There is a huge difference between doing a weekend project and sticking with something for a year or two. If you are then the end result can be really rewarding.



Well worth repeating for anyone reading this. 

Add in a two-yr old kid, who will continue to grow and have needs; think carefully.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 17, 2015)

This is one of the houses I looked at today, it's forclosed on and 25k


----------



## artistkate (Jan 17, 2015)

More pictures of the 25k house.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 17, 2015)

This is the second one that we looked at. This one is listed for 54k but has been on market for almost a year, it's an estate sale.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 17, 2015)

This is the basement and roofline. Not sure if the basement is of concern, as part of it seems to be dirt wall, but the house is 1800 sqft and the basementire is 300 sqft. Also, the roof is horrible. My realtor said she would probably offer 42k on this.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 18, 2015)

What&#8217;s your gut feeling on the two new houses. They look to be closer to move in condition. The 25k looks to be newest of the three and also smallest and plainest. Are they all in the same area, same taxes, schools, etc? Are they all in a similar safe location?

Each house I&#8217;m sure has things you like and different problems. I have a feeling you are drawn to the older buildings and their charm. Nothing wrong with that but they do have different issues. 

If all things are equal what you need to do is list each place and what needs done you cant do and the cost to get it done. Then the things you can do yourself and the costs do some math and maybe the most expensive will be the best deal.


----------



## joecaption (Jan 18, 2015)

Any chance you have an idea on who you would call if you needed to sub out some of the work you can not do?
What I've done in the past for customers that had no idea what to look for or what there even looking at is inspect the home for them and give them some real world ideas on what needed to be fixed first, and how much it would cost for a small fee.
The deal was they had to give me the work that needed to be done.
A home inspector can not give you prices, is not going to be taking anything apart, and may or may not even be qualified.
A GC would have a far better chance of knowing what he's looking at.
FIY,  the foundation and basement are extremely important when doing an inspection.
If it's failing the rest of the building is sure to follow and there's rarely a cheap fix.


----------



## joecaption (Jan 18, 2015)

Love that picture of that window laying on the floor.
There was suppose to be at least 4, in that window there may have been 6 screws holding it in place.
There was also suppose to be caulking around the back sides of the stops to seal it.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 18, 2015)

My favorite of them all is the estate sale. But the basement really freaks me out. All 3 houses are in different towns but all are within the same distance to my work. The 36k and 54k houses are in the same school district. Taxes are all about the same, being around 1000$ the house listed at 25k was built it 1900 and is actually older than than the 54k which was built in 1902, and the 36k was 1860. However that one listed at 25k may have a value of max 80k when fixed up. Where as the 54k could be 120 upwards to 150k as it is a growing town and school and daycare are located in town. The 36k house would be around the same price range, but being a much much smaller town, harder to sell. But I'm not really looking for a house to flip, as I plan to have this house my perminent residence. 36 k house is 2334sqft, .33 acres, 1.5 bath and 4-5 bedroom, 2 stall garage with shop in it. The 54k house is 1788 sqft, .36 acre, 1 bath, 4-5 bedroom, 2.5 stall garage. The 25k house is 1089sqft, .16 acre, 1 bath, 3 bedroom, 2 stall garage that needs redone.


----------



## slownsteady (Jan 19, 2015)

Not sure why, but the 25K house struck me as a flip. But at that price, why would anyone invest, so i'm puzzled. That knocked in window also made me wonder if the place was ripped off. All the plumbing and electrical ok?


----------



## artistkate (Jan 19, 2015)

The 25m house is assessed at 65k but the bank is trying to short sale it. All plumbing and electrical is fine, the window that is blown in was on the 2nd floor and we believe it had not been put in right and the wind blew it out. We've decided to put an offer on the 36k house. Just waitin to get the prequalification paperwork and then we will send them the offer. My realtor talked to the listing agent and knows how much the current offer is and she can't tell me how much it is, but knowing that the other offer is having issues getting the loan, she said the prequal letter should help us get it. So we'll see.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 19, 2015)

Good luck....


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 20, 2015)

Best of luck. We are all rooting for you. 

The process of looking and buying any house but really in the case of a fixer upper is draining. There is so much indecision and emotional ups and down. There is also something to it that almost seems like the system and the deck are stacked against you. That&#8217;s how I saw it every time I get involved with buying something in that category anyways. The older and more experenced I get life kind of keeps guiding you past the indecision. My point of almost throwing in the towel on the last house we ended up buying was we had made a deal with the bank and came to a final number and the search turned up a lean for 10k against the property owed to the township. There was zero profit for the owner and the bank was into negative numbers so they were not paying so it left two options we pony up 10k more or the township forfeit the lean for good. I told the realtor no way would we pay the 10k he said ok and he would talk to the township. They said yes they would forgive the lean. So it was full speed ahead. Then about 2 days later they changed their mind. My girlfriend said that&#8217;s it we are done! And I found the home phone numbers of the three supervisors and by luck picked the right one to call with the intention of giving a real earful. As it was he was the one that wanted to work with us and invited me to come plead my case at the next meeting. Just happened the next meeting was a month away so more BS waiting a month. But I figured what the heck it was worth a try and gave my 2 cents and they voted 2 to 3 to drop the lean. 

My point is if you really want something you shouldn&#8217;t give up before you have to. I know I may have given you the inspired side to buying that place and I&#8217;m actually really glad others have given you the down side to it. You seem very smart about what you are getting into and the best thing is when you hear the pros and cons and then make up your own mind as to how you want to go. 

Please keep us in the loop if you get it or not and if you do I hope you stick around and show us what you are doing to the place and ask for any advice you may need help with.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 20, 2015)

You guys have given me a tremendous amount of help, along wiwith my dad who has been flipping houses his whole life. We weighed the up front costs with down the road costs as well as the house price and everything and we believe the 36k one is ultimately the best one for us along with it having exactly everything we want in a home. I will for sure stick around and ask lots of questions.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 20, 2015)

I always looked at it like theft. Not in the normal sence but I could leave the down payment in an account somewhere that makes no money. What would it cost for an apartment or house to rent and is the house just good enough to live in some of the rooms while I work on it. Most of my friends picked up a second job and paid more income tax. My job was tax free and in your case the payments will be tax deductable. My first house was $13K with $700 down with gov. grants at the time, I got the $700 back and payments were $10 more than the rent I was paying and one year later I sold it for $28K. It was a shack that nobody thought would be standing ten years later so it was just fixed up to be livible. 40 years later it still looks like a shack and has a worth of about $300k


----------



## artistkate (Jan 20, 2015)

Wow that's crazy! Rent around here is typically 700-1200 a month, and if I did a 15 year loan on this house, my payments would be roughly 400$ a month including taxes and insurance. I'm currently not paying rent cuz I'm living with my boyfriends family so I've had a chance to save about 500$ a month and pay off all my loans except my car and student loans which together are down to 19k. I plan to fix up just the rooms we need right away and then work on it one room at a time and get it roofed and sided within a year. Though it was just done a couple years ago, I want it done to my liking. Lol


----------



## nealtw (Jan 20, 2015)

So right away you are getting paid $300 a month just for living there.
If you want to see crasy check out our older houses in the city and the building lot at the bottom.
http://www.vancouvercharacterhomes.ca/


----------



## artistkate (Jan 20, 2015)

Oh my that's expensive! "Rich" homes around here are like 500-600k and that's about as high as it gets unless your buying farm land then it's about 2mil for 300 acres.


----------



## slownsteady (Jan 22, 2015)

I'm especially curious about the basement of that house. Please keep us posted.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 24, 2015)

I went through a different bank after waiting got a week to hear back from mine about a preapproval letter. I called everyday and they ignored my calls, so my realtor gave me the number to a different bank and within 40 mins I had the preapproval for my realtor so we are sending them the offer in a day or two and then will see where we go from there!


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 24, 2015)

artistkate said:


> I went through a different bank after waiting got a week to hear back from mine about a preapproval letter. I called everyday and they ignored my calls, so my realtor gave me the number to a different bank and within 40 mins I had the preapproval for my realtor so we are sending them the offer in a day or two and then will see where we go from there!


 

:Step one done!


----------



## nealtw (Jan 24, 2015)

Bankers are a strange bunch????????


----------



## artistkate (Jan 24, 2015)

Yeah, we have issues around here with bankers not getting back to you.so far everything is going well. Had an inspection done on the house and found out it needs a few new duct pipes in the basement as it currently has ones wrapped with aspestos (sp?) So going to make sure that gets done, said the roof and stuff are ok for now but will still have an estimate done to see the cost of getting the window trims and gutters done. Still waiting to hear the counter offer from the sellers, but will know by Monday What they have to say.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 25, 2015)

Get some real good information on best practice before touching asbestos. You do not want it to become airborne. If they counter offer stand firm in your next offer due to the cost of asbestos removal and send them a copy of the inspection with that section circled in red.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 27, 2015)

Well out offer has been accepted and we are set to close March 6th.  I will definitely keep a repair log going as soon as we get the house.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 27, 2015)

Congrats. 

It&#8217;s great they accepted your offer without a counter offer. Always made me then think hmm should I have offered less, haha. But it&#8217;s all about moving forward not looking back. March is a perfect time to start working on a house. I had hoped and tried so hard to get in our house in the winter to get going and as it drug out it was spring and looking back on it I&#8217;m glad now how it turned out. getting windows open and not working in and out of cold weather is much easier. 

I did so much with used materials in our house I even surprised myself. Great way to avoid costs if you have the ability to find what you need. 

Take as many photos as you can. Not just to post here but for a record of what you get into. As fresh as it is in my mind at the time I soon forgot what was inside the walls and what we changed and didn&#8217;t change. 

I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you start taking a pressure washer to the outside of your new place.


----------



## artistkate (Jan 27, 2015)

They didn't accept my first offer we went back and forth about 4 times. I plan on making a renovation photobook.


----------



## nealtw (Jan 27, 2015)

Asbestos, has to be the first consideration.

I suspect you will have some limited amount of time to accomplish some work before you move in and you will need a plan on what needs to be done to make some rooms livable and safe.

Most of us here will requimend getting the asbestos removed by professionals. Most times DIYers will dissapear for a while and then come back latter and ask about other repairs. We can just immagine what they did with it. If money is to tight to higher the pro, the answer is to become that pro yourself. The safety clothes and the equipment they use just are not that expencive and with a little research it can be done safely even if it is ugly work.


----------



## bud16415 (Jan 27, 2015)

nealtw said:


> Asbestos, has to be the first consideration.
> 
> I suspect you will have some limited amount of time to accomplish some work before you move in and you will need a plan on what needs to be done to make some rooms livable and safe.
> 
> Most of us here will requimend getting the asbestos removed by professionals. Most times DIYers will dissapear for a while and then come back latter and ask about other repairs. We can just immagine what they did with it. If money is to tight to higher the pro, the answer is to become that pro yourself. The safety clothes and the equipment they use just are not that expencive and with a little research it can be done safely even if it is ugly work.




 To think when I was a kid people used to smoke cigarettes with asbestos filters because it was a more healthy way to smoke. Times have changed. 
  I didnt disappear for that long did I?


----------



## nealtw (Jan 27, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> To think when I was a kid people used to smoke cigarettes with asbestos filters because it was a more healthy way to smoke. Times have changed.
> I didnt disappear for that long did I?



I don't remember you asking about it.: But if we look at what they do for removel, it just isn't that big a deal to do it absolutly safely. In this house the plaster should be tested also. The most expensive part woud be the air test when it's done.

At some point this house will go back on the market even if that is years away and what can make it worth more than other houses is a picture history of eveything that was done.

I met a guy that was flipping houses when the market was better, his problem was the quality he was doing didn't show up when it was finished so he started making a book of what he did so an inspector could go thru it and look at plumbing, wiring new structure, al the hidden stuff with the permits. He said, he always got above market prices.


----------



## Big Red (Feb 3, 2015)

As one who has bought lots of rentals and worked on many houses over my lifetime, the cosmetic issues are never a problem.  But the 2 biggest things to consider is to be sure the STRUCTURE of the house is in good shape.  Such as the basement and if there are water issues.  AND the second is that with an old house, the walls are not insulated so heating is going to cost more.

As you look at the house, open and close all the doors and windows--be sure the door fits into the jamb and the windows open and close with no effort.  Any problems could signal foundation shift.

One wonders why anyone would side a house and not do the trim and soffets.  That house needs some love, for sure.  Be sure the trim and soffets are not rotted, signaling water leaks.  Go over it with a fine-toothed comb and don't be afraid to back away if you see structural problems.  One thing I learned in my house buying career--don't get emotionally involved until you're sure the basic house structure is all OK.  LOOK for problems--don't hide your eyes from them.  Be realistic because an old house CAN be a money pit as was said above.  Old houses can be cold in winter and very hot in summer.

As you look at the foundation, sill plate etc. always carry a pocket knife with you and test areas of wood that look water damaged.  If the knife tip goes in easy, you've got rot on your hands.  Use binoculars to take a good look at the roof and valleys,too.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 4, 2015)

I am waiting to go out with a contractor to get an estimate. He will also be able to help me check for any issues That will need addressed. I'm also going to have all the exterior walls insulated and the whole house stripped and new drywall up.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 5, 2015)

Did we every get how old this house is?


----------



## artistkate (Feb 5, 2015)

It was built in 1865


----------



## nealtw (Feb 5, 2015)

So that makes it a balloon framed house. So there willl be some extra little things that should be done when you have the exterior walls opened up. Balloon framed houses have studs that are full height from the foundation to the ceiling on the upper floor and floors are hung off of that. Mostly it is just adding 2x4 blocks between the studs just below each floor and just above each floor. It called fire stopping so if you have a fire in the basment wall or in the floor cavity, it doesn't have a free run to the attic giving people more time to get out. We will want to see picture of the wall when they are opened up, over the years people do all kinds of stuff like move windows with out doing proper framing and while it is open thing are easy fixes.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 6, 2015)

yeah, well I have a contractor who is going to be doing the work for me, I'm just going to rip open the walls and take out the floors for them.


----------



## Big Red (Feb 6, 2015)

Taking the walls down to the studs and then insulating with blown in foam,etc. will give a great result.


----------



## bud16415 (Feb 6, 2015)

Get a big dumpster. The amount of lath and plaster is going to amaze you if your plan is to take it down to framing. Protect yourself with a good pair of goggles, good respirator, work boots and good gloves. You will need a snow shovel, crow bar, push broom, wheelbarrow, work lights and a lot of elbow grease. 

Sounds like your plan has changed some from your original posting. 

Good luck and looking forward to seeing the before and after photos.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes it has, the bank will only approve my renovation loan if I hire a contractor but I bf an help do work, so that's the plan right now.


----------



## Big Red (Feb 7, 2015)

Good luck with your project.  Exciting times!!  Keep us posted on progress.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 7, 2015)

We want to look over his shoulder, don't fall into any traps like
http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=18716


----------



## artistkate (Feb 8, 2015)

oh my, that's crazy! The guy I'm working with is liscened, has a lot of references and he is friends with some of my boyfriend's family members so he comes highly recommended. I do plan to supervise and make checks as often as possible to take pictures and follow along with rate of construction. Should have my estimate by next week, so we'll see what happens. I'm so excited for it to all go through but also worried that it wont.


----------



## slownsteady (Feb 8, 2015)

If it does go through, then it was meant to be. Otherwise, it just wasn't.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 17, 2015)

The house isn't going to work out. The bank rejected it before even lettin it get appraised. Pissed me off. I fired my bank and my realtor after she told me she refused to show me any more foreclosures or fixer uppers. So now I'm working on my own and looking at 2 houses today that I would be able to pay cash for. One used to be a rental and one is an estate sale.


----------



## bud16415 (Feb 17, 2015)

First off sorry to hear that news. And on the same note I&#8217;m really glad you haven&#8217;t given up the hunt. 

I had somewhat a similar issue with the agent that was showing us distressed properties. I actually could feel his pain in a way as he was spending as much time and gas on these 25k houses (maybe even more) as he would on a 250k place and his commission would be many times more. I almost got the feeling they take on these sales as a favor to the banks they do a lot of business with. What I couldn&#8217;t understand the ones holding the paper why they wouldn&#8217;t work a deal to at least get some cash flowing in and the power on with a perspective buyer. They just want them gone is all I can figure. We had no problem as we were paying cash but getting insurance was tricky. They do the well what do you want to insure it for thing and what did you pay. Now that ours is done we needed to reevaluate our insurance needs again and the guy that comes out is doing just the opposite of the first time around and telling us the value is much higher than we thought. 

Paying cash is really the way to go or at least have a down payment of half or more finance the rest with a simple loan and then pay it off as quick as you can. When you pay cash it&#8217;s yours to do with what you want burn it down or fix it up for the most part. That freedom of not having a payment will let you direct all your household budget to the fixer upper. 

Watch out going on your own around here lots of landlords want out of some of their old rentals and will offer to carry the loan with a land contract. That can be good just make sure you read the fine print. Lots of them say you miss a payment and the property goes back, or they may require you don&#8217;t start making changes.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 17, 2015)

Was that the bank that owned it, if not deal directly with that bank and low ball the crap out of it.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 18, 2015)

It wasn't bank owned, it was owned by a retired couple that had been there sine 1970, they lived in a different house. But I am certain I can find something halfway decent for cash. The two I looked at yesterday weren't anything I wanted to dip my hands in. But there is about 5 other ones that I am interested in looking at, just gotta find someone to let me In them.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 18, 2015)

I few more dissapointments like that and you will be a seasoned housing entrepreneur, just as tough to deal with as that bank is.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 19, 2015)

Well I looked at one today that is really nice. Needs work, but it's able to live in. Shot them an offer of 5k. Gunna see what they say.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 19, 2015)

Here are more shots, sorry they are sideways for some reason...


----------



## nealtw (Feb 19, 2015)

If you load you photos on your computer you can rotate them before you upload them and good luck.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 19, 2015)

I wish I could! Currently my computer is in storage until I move. So I'm doing everything off my phone and have been since October.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 19, 2015)

For some reason I can't down load them or I would fix them. But the house looks like it could be something.


----------



## slownsteady (Feb 19, 2015)

artistkate said:


> I wish I could! Currently my computer is in storage until I move. So I'm doing everything off my phone and have been since October.



Whenever you shoot photos with your phone, hold it horizontally. Really important to do that if you are shooting video.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 20, 2015)

I will try that next time. Thanks for the advise.


----------



## bud16415 (Feb 20, 2015)

Looks like a pretty nice place and the garage is worth the offering price. 

If you have an iPhone they auto correct and turn the image on any apple device so everything looks good on your phone no matter how you hold it. Once the image hits the non-apple world they go sideways. I have a couple freeware programs that will flip video around.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 20, 2015)

I have a galaxy s5. Not an apple kind of person. This house needs a new furnace and ac unit before we could move in. Shingles are in the garage to finish the roof.


----------



## slownsteady (Feb 20, 2015)

Now that I've twisted my neck a little; the house looks inviting. The interior's a little dated but not too bad. I kind of like that country look. Hows the plumbing? Electrical?


----------



## Big Red (Feb 20, 2015)

Good for you!!!!!  I'm glad you fired everyone.  Some people in banks,etc. just don't want to finance a house in bad shape because banks just don't like ending up owning houses.  They're in the banking business--not the real estate business.

What's up with the agent?  Why didn't she want to show you any more foreclosures????  Sounds like a lazy agent. She wants the easy commission.

When I was buying rental property, I went to the bank and sat down with the lending officer and had a nice conversation with him because they did not want to sell me this house that they owned.  You might be surprised how willing a bank may be, if they feel comfortable with your level of commitment to remodel the house in question.  They get a feeling from you as to how forthcoming you are and committed to hard work to turn the house around.  By the time I was done talking with the loan officer, he gave me a COMMERCIAL LOAN on a RENTAL house!!!!!!  This is just NEVER done!!!  And on a house they AT FIRST did not want to sell to me.  I was shocked.  I turned that house into a very pretty little place that the bank never got back again under another foreclosure.  So ask to talk with the loan officer--don't take "no" as a final answer, so easily.


----------



## artistkate (Feb 20, 2015)

Electrical is older but it's on a breaker system, the garage has fuses. I plan to rewire the house eventually. 3/4th of the roof was done only about 6 ft section on the back is still the older shingles. Going to remortar the chimney while we're up there. Replace windows with newer ones, floor in the bathroom and kitchen, going to put laundry in the bathroom where the linen closer currently is. And see about insulation in the walls. Lol sounds like a ton of work, but it won't all be done right away.


----------

