# Install a Light in Place of Smoke Detector?



## SavvyCat (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't have a volt meter, so I really don't know what the power level is going to my smoke detectors. However, they are old and past their useful life. I intend to replace them with battery operated. One of them in I an alcove outside my bedroom and near a storage closet that has no light. 

Am I crazy to think I can install a ceiling light in place of the detector since there is already wiring there?  I've been reading that many Hardwired units operated on 125 volts, but I can't measure it, and there is no breaker in the box that supports that idea. What do you think?


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 5, 2014)

If no residential smoke detectors run on 24 vac or 240 vac then it's a good bet it's 120 vac which you can test with a 120 vac incand. bulb screwed into a socket with pigtail leads. 

Depending on what the bulb does there are several possibilities.  One is, if the bulb dies quickly, you have put it across 240 vac.


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## speedy petey (Jan 5, 2014)

DO NOT remove a smoke detector to put a light in. That idea is nuts!

For one thing, the box will not be switched, so you are limited to a pull chain light. For another, you need the smoke. 
IMO a straight battery unit is NOT an acceptable substitute for a hard wired one. If it's past it's useful life then replace it. In fact, if they are all over 12-15 years old replace them ALL. Besides the fact that you will be creating a serious code violation by removing the hard wired interconnected smokes. 

If you really need the light then tap off that box and put in a pull chain light next to the smoke.


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## SavvyCat (Jan 5, 2014)

Speedy:

Thanks for your concern.  I already know I would need a pull chain unless I really wanted to delve into electrical work, which I don't.  I don't dig in that closet often, but hate that I have to get a flashlight when I do.  

Even when I was trying to find replacement hardwired units, I read all the pros and cons for wired and battery operated.  Wired means they all go off at once, but not at all if the power goes out.  Know what I mean?  I can only assume these are original installs from 1982.  They "work" in that shower steam will set them off, but a recent smokey oven fire did not (I don't want to talk about it).  They are useless.  

There are all kinds of codes for rental properties here, but none for owners.  The only requirement is from my insurance company that I must have both smoke and CO detectors, and they don't care which kind.  A firefighter friend of mine years ago gave me battery operated detectors for Christmas (also close to 1982, as I recall those years).  Aw!  So sentimental!    Anything is better than nothing, he said, and nothing is what I have now, as far as I'm concerned.

So fear not!  I will have a smoke and fire alert system in my house no matter what.  I just want to use some established wiring for a few more lights, thank you.


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## speedy petey (Jan 6, 2014)

I cannot imagine the codes in suburban TX are any less stringent for rentals than homes, but who knows. Personally I think you'd be out of your mind taking out hard wired smokes and replacing them with battery-only units.
I regularly have to put them in to satisfy insurance and code people, so.....

The old units are nothing like today's as far as reliability goes. Like I said, smokes DO have a finite life, so replacing units from 1982 should have been done years ago. And also, MOST hard wired units are battery back up. I don't know where you were looking that said they won't work if power goes out. Also, you can get combo CO/SD units for the areas that require CO detectors as well as smoke.

I get the impression your mind is made up so I won't bother you with this any longer. Good luck.


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## bud16415 (Jan 6, 2014)

In another thread yesterday Neil suggested a new product that I liked a lot made by DuPont I believe. It's a smoke alarm that screws into a light socket and has all the functionality of a wired in unit with the addition of another light socket base in the bottom of it. You could have the best of both worlds with this and just add a pull chain adapter to it if you don't want to run a switch. 

Take down your old unit mount a ceiling socket screw this in screw in a pull chain adapter and a bulb and you are done. I think the price was around $40.


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2014)

Bud that was an extra with a house that already had hardwired units installed. The OP should read the insurance papers, it likely says there that these things need to be changed a t 10 years. It is just to eazy to run a second box as suggested earlier.


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

I would also add the second box but the OP was pretty set in his thinking as SP pointed out. I was just throwing that DuPont unit out as an option that would be better than his plan of getting rid of the smoke detector all together. He never said I don&#8217;t think if his hardwired units were all tied together into an alarm system. If they are I totally agree he should just update them all and add new lighting where he needs it. I would think a self-charging screw in unit would be better than a battery only unit and that&#8217;s where he is heading.


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2014)

As that light would only be used for closet lighting it may not get enough use to keep the battery charged.


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

I was worried it might get too much seeing as how there is no switch it would be powered all the time and the light turned on with a pull cord.  I don&#8217;t think they can over charge though.


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2014)

nope, the pull string would turn on the light and the battery charger, I think pull strings are not allowed here. But maybe a remote switch could be used.


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

I was going to screw the pull chain adapter into the smoke alarm and then the light bulb. The smoke detector would screw straight into the socket that&#8217;s always on. 

They make a gizmo that screws in like a bulb and has two outlets on the side and then a bulb socket. Cost about 2 bucks. And they come with and without pull chains.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-2-Outlet-Polarized-Light-Socket-Adapter-with-Pull-Chain-Ivory/16644758


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2014)

I still think is all nonsence as twenty minutes after it is installed someone will want a nice looking light fixture and your back to the same problem, no smoke detector.


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

I agree. Most apartments I walk into the flag is sticking out of the side as someone took the battery out and never replaced it or it&#8217;s just the base stuck to the ceiling. They all work if you care enough about life to keep them working and if you don&#8217;t care no amount of prodding will make a difference. Kind of like seat belts. Nuff said.


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## SavvyCat (Jan 7, 2014)

The only thing the "OP" was "clearly set" on was finding out the power level that feeds hardwired with the full intention of installing replacement smoke detectors, not eliminating smoke detectors all together.  And the declaration that they must have a battery backup and I just can find it is also incorrect.  They're from 1982, old, malfunctioning, no backup if the power goes out.

Wuzzat "wuz" the only one able to comprehend the writing, focus on the subject, and address the question.  For that he has my thanks.


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

SavvyCat said:


> Wuzzat "wuz" the only one able to comprehend the writing, focus on the subject, and address the question. For that he has my thanks.


 

Dont forget to give wuz a like and alert him that he helped.


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2014)

This should help identify what you have.  http://www.a-1electricco.com/hhsmokedetectors.php


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## bud16415 (Jan 7, 2014)

www.ajfire.org/uploads/smoke_alarm_requirements.pdf

Another useful link listing state by state.


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 7, 2014)

SavvyCat said:


> Wuzzat "wuz" the only one able to comprehend the writing, focus on the subject, and address the question.  For that he has my thanks.


You are not an ordinary OP!


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## speedy petey (Jan 7, 2014)

SavvyCat said:


> And the declaration that they must have a battery backup and I just can find it is also incorrect.  They're from 1982, old, malfunctioning, no backup if the power goes out.


NEW ONES. New ones will have a battery backup was what I said. You said you found ones that were only line voltage.


SavvyCat said:


> Even when I was trying to find replacement hardwired units, I read all the pros and cons for wired and battery operated. Wired means they all go off at once, but not at all if the power goes out.


This is simply not true.






SavvyCat said:


> Wuzzat "wuz" the only one able to comprehend the writing, focus on the subject, and address the question.  For that he has my thanks.


No, Wuz was the one to tell you what you wanted to hear. THAT'S why he has your thanks. Since some of us here did not engage in telling you only what you wanted to hear you make us out to be the bad guys. 
Listen, we see this attitude ALL the time, so don't be upset if you come here with a dumb idea and everyone does not say _"Sure, go ahead. Great idea."_
This is NOT a case of "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all". It's a case of if you have a bad idea you're gonna hear about it.


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 7, 2014)

speedy petey said:


> . . . to tell you what you wanted to hear.


I tell people what they want to hear slightly more often than does Doc Martin.  
And if you divide your post count by the number of likes you've been given, you and I are about equally popular, or unpopular.  I hope this similar ratio is for different reasons.

Women on tech forums do not seem to have the same issues that men have, except one I met on a hearing aid forum.  She played mindgames/headgames like a man and was one smart and offensive  lady. 

Petey, you should hang around on this forum
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/
for a while.  
It won't do them good but it might do you good.


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2014)

Sadly we get alot more readers than members, some of us worry about the answer those people get if they are think of doing the same thing and we want them first to understand that it not a good idea. If you get the answer you want a little further down the page, great.
Keep in mind that when we give dumb answers or even argue with each other we are just trying to help.


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## SavvyCat (Jan 7, 2014)

What give you that impression, Wuz?  If you only knew!  LOL!

I'm not looking for what I want to hear for stuff I never mentioned.  At the risk of offending the moderators, it's about stuff people think I don't know, that I ought to, to make them feel superior for instructing me on it, though I never asked about it.  (That's not a run-on sentence, I swear.  I make my living as an executive secretary).  

Not that I intend to write some kind of manifesto, but I'm a one question-one answer person.  I completely understand the concept of "you don't know what you don't know," but I'm bright enough as the daughter of a depression era farmboy son of a carpenter, who served as an electrician's mate in the US navy, who was his one-and-only shop help, to know which way is up.  The secretary bit only come from the fact he also did peoples' tax returns for as long as I can remember, meaning if I wanted to answer the phone as a kid, I had to be able to take care of the call (take a message, set an appointment, etc).

Now, my introduction to this forum a few years came after my daddy's unexpected passing when I couldn't figure out a particular circuit to convert a single pole switch into a switch-outlet combo.  A question that took all freakin day to get an intelligent response about a single jumper amid all the manly-man posturing.  Something that should have been a 5 minute phone call to him.  

I don't know everything, and I am, in fact, a blonde, but I'm not stupid and would appreciate it if people would refrain from assuming that at the outset.  One of my most hopeful relationships fell apart when my "date" took offense to my simple suggestion that he calculate the price of a new hard drive after all discounts and rebates by effective gigabyte.  He thought I "embarrassed" him in front of the know-nothing salesbots at Fry's and that was the end of that.  

Ban me for life it you want for going off on a tangent, but I don't appreciate Speedy's "she won't acknowledge my superior intellect" approach.  Call it chip on my shoulder, but I don't need that kind of insecure garbage in what's supposed to be a place of helpfulness.


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## bud16415 (Jan 8, 2014)

Until you mentioned it I had no idea of your gender nor would that ever impact a reply I would make. I can&#8217;t talk for others except being around here long enough I have seen very little gender bias if any. I can feel fairly confidant in saying all answers you received if you consider them good or bad in this thread were given without gender playing any role whatsoever. 

If one has a predisposition to think they may receive a bias and it&#8217;s constantly in their thought process often times they see it around every corner of life. That perceived bias doesn&#8217;t have to be gender it could be race, age, education or many others even hair color. When one perceives a prejudice it doesn&#8217;t mean one exists. 

I on the other hand do find it slightly offensive that members here would call out another member on a public forum with acquisitions of this nature and make suggestions for that member as to ways to correct the problems they perceive are taking place. 

As to your initial question and an attempt to make this post on topic. The title of your thread is &#8220;Install a Light in Place of Smoke Detector?&#8221; You used 3 question marks in that post one in the title, one asking if you were crazy in thinking of doing what your title said, and one asking what others thought of your question. No one that tries to be helpful here knows the abilities of others coming and asking  DIY type questions and we all look for clues. First clue is you don&#8217;t have a volt meter. Almost no one has a volt meter the conventional tool of choice is a multi-meter and you can pick one up for 30 bucks that will do all you will ever need. I would highly recommend one to anyone thinking of doing any DIY electrical work along with maybe another $30 worth of basic electrician hand tools and a few bucks worth of tape and wire nuts etc. Another clue was talking of 125 volts I hear 110 in the old days and now mostly 120 referring to north American voltage and 220. You said you have no breaker that supports the idea of a 125 v supply to your old worn out and battery shot units. These devices are surely on a breaker and you never mentioned how you know they are not and if they are not you have even bigger problems. Of course they are wired 120 if they are hard wired. &#8220;wuz&#8221; gave you some potentially deadly advice in post number 2 and that was to use a light bulb as a voltage tester. The idea of judging if the voltage is correct by the bulb not exploding if it was 220 is frankly Ludacris. I carry a test socket and a bulb and it can be a handy tool in some cases but I have safety leads and clips and not just any socket and bulb. I also feel I have the basic understanding of when to use such a tool and when not. The advice I gave was built around not just your question but also what I felt was within the scope of you doing and what would provide you with both light and fire protection. Sure sometimes the topic floats off topic as we are all aware there are many lurkers reading and gaining ideas here also. Plus we are learning from each other, and expanding on ideas in others threads. Example being I saw a post Neil made in a whole different forum that I felt could help you and I offered that advice and we briefly discussed the pros and cons of such. 


In closing again I personally feel no one offered anything but positive advice in this thread. I&#8217;m not saying the advice given here is always good or I always agree with it but it was given with good intentions. I would ask people to always look at their perceptions along with reality and then if they feel they have an issue handle it with PM or get a mod involved and not bring such things into the open forum.


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## speedy petey (Jan 9, 2014)

SavvyCat said:


> Ban me for life it you want for going off on a tangent, but I don't appreciate Speedy's "she won't acknowledge my superior intellect" approach.  Call it chip on my shoulder, but I don't need that kind of insecure garbage in what's supposed to be a place of helpfulness.


Oh get over yourself.
For one, I did not know you were a female, not that it even matters.
For two, don't bother with trying to use that you think I am using a "she won't acknowledge my superior intellect" approach. That is yet another typical reaction from someone not getting the answers or only hearing what they want.
What I am portraying is not insecurity. I am quite secure in my knowledge of this trade and field. If someone is suggesting something very wrong, non-code-complaint or even dangerous (ALL three apply in your case) I an certainly going to express an opinion on the situation. 
If you don't want opinions outside of the specific answers you want to hear I would suggest staying away from the internet and message boards.


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