# Fridge cabinet installation



## vinny186 (Jan 8, 2017)

The layout is in this order: Fridge side panel (30" deep), above fridge cabinet (24" deep), fridge side panel (30" deep).

I want the fridge cab to be flush with the top of my fridge (30" deep) which means I'll need to extend the fridge cab away from the wall be approximately 6". Any suggestions on how to do this?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 8, 2017)

Install all the other cabinets in that row first, leaving the refer and allowing for the method you select for addressing the refer encl.

There are several; Add face frames to both end panels and cleats the dimension of the wall cabinet, to both end panels, so that it can be screwed too and supported by the end panels.
Build a 5-3/4" deep box, so you you have 1/4" adjustment, hung from the wall and/or ceiling, shim and screw the wall cabinet between the end panels and the box.


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## vinny186 (Jan 8, 2017)

That's such a good idea. I was going to attach the first end panel, then fridge cab then the other end panel but it would be much easier to "frame out" the enclosure by adding bottom supports between both panels along with blocking in the back to secure it to the wall studs. Thanks.


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## vinny186 (Jan 9, 2017)

Because I have to build out the back wall by 6," can I lag bolt four stacked studs to each other at the top and bottom of the cabinet?


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2017)

vinny186 said:


> Because I have to build out the back wall by 6," can I lag bolt four stacked studs to each other at the top and bottom of the cabinet?



I would just screw it to the gables, if you are worried about the top and or bottom bending over time just screw a 2 x 4 to the back to make it more stiff.
Of if you want more put two  2x4 between the gables and and hang the box from those.


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## vinny186 (Jan 9, 2017)

Are gables the same as joists?


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2017)

vinny186 said:


> Are gables the same as joists?



The gable is the big piece you put beside the fridge.
Sorry I did not read all the posts and assumed you were putting one on each side.... My bad.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 9, 2017)

If you screw it to the end panels, you see the screw heads on the end that does not have an adjacent upper cabinet.

Build it out from the wall out of 2x's, because packing extra weight on the cabinet, without attaching it to the wall creates stress on the cabinet.


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> If you screw it to the end panels, you see the screw heads on the end that does not have an adjacent upper cabinet.
> 
> Build it out from the wall out of 2x's, because packing extra weight on the cabinet, without attaching it to the wall creates stress on the cabinet.



The  screw heads would be inside the over the fridge box.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 9, 2017)

So, how many screws with a 1/2" depth of penetration, would you think would be necessary?


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## nealtw (Jan 9, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> So, how many screws with a 1/2" depth of penetration, would you think would be necessary?



Well you all ready have two on each side of the front two more near the backon each side and if there is a cupboard on each side of the gables the back screws could be longer, Shear strength on one screw is likely over 700 pounds and shear pull out would be at least half of that.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 9, 2017)

2 screws on one side with 700lb shear still doesn't address the 1/2" penetration on the other side, for a loaded cabinet.

I'll build out the back and attach the cabinet there and let finish nails take care of the aesthetics.


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## slownsteady (Jan 10, 2017)

Can you hang it from the ceiling joists?


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

for the non believers you could use flush nuts and screws
http://www.rockler.com/cap-nuts-for-connector-bolts


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> 2 screws on one side with 700lb shear still doesn't address the 1/2" penetration on the other side, for a loaded cabinet.
> 
> I'll build out the back and attach the cabinet there and let finish nails take care of the aesthetics.



So just to be clear on what you are saying.

If we can agree that 8 screws will have plenty of shear strength to hold the cupboard and contents.

Are you saying that the wood would fail and the screw would scrape a track so that the cupboard would slide down.

Wouldn't that bring into question those little pins on the same cupboard installed to hold the weight of the shelf and it's contents.
I have seen shelves fail, I have never seen an enlarged hole


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> The gable is the big piece you put beside the fridge.
> Sorry I did not read all the posts and assumed you were putting one on each side.... My bad.



Just a related thought before you get too far along like I did. I had a very similar setup to what neal showed in his photo. I had 4 inches between the hinge side of the fridge and the wall. when you open the fridge it was very claustrophobic and difficult to open the pull out bins in the fridge. I used those 4 inches to tilt the fridge at maybe a 10 degree angle and matched the upper with the same angle. The whole end fridge setup works so much nicer now.


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> Just a related thought before you get too far along like I did. I had a very similar setup to what neal showed in his photo. I had 4 inches between the hinge side of the fridge and the wall. when you open the fridge it was very claustrophobic and difficult to open the pull out bins in the fridge. I used those 4 inches to tilt the fridge at maybe a 10 degree angle and matched the upper with the same angle. The whole end fridge setup works so much nicer now.



Yeah that photo shows the same mistake we have upstairs, the wall beside the fridge will not allow the door to open far enough. Your angle doesn't work with a fridge that fills the hole.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 10, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> Can you hang it from the ceiling joists?



If the cabinets were full height and an 8' ceiling.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> So just to be clear on what you are saying.
> 
> If we can agree that 8 screws will have plenty of shear strength to hold the cupboard and contents.



So hypothetically, when facing that wall of cabinets, the refer. is on the left and the first end panel is against an upper and a base cabinet, which to keep that refer end panel square need to have an 1/8", or an FEP installed to bring the back side of both cabinets level with those cabinets face frame, so the right refer end panel will be square.

The same 1/8" or FEP needs to be installed on the refer cab. to keep it square in the opening between the two end panels.

There is a 6" overlap between the refer cabinet and the wall cabinet on the right, giving you about 1-1/2" of meat to screw into, 5-1/4" of which is probably particle board.

While using flush nuts is a good Idea, the time , fostner bit and accuracy may be beyond some homeowner's wifes patience level.



nealtw said:


> Are you saying that the wood would fail and the screw would scrape a track so that the cupboard would slide down.



"What can go wrong will", and a wood screw with 1/2" penetration is a failure waiting for an opportunity.



nealtw said:


> Wouldn't that bring into question those little pins on the same cupboard installed to hold the weight of the shelf and it's contents.
> I have seen shelves fail, I have never seen an enlarged hole



They are a tight fit, but, require the user to make up their ---- mind.


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Yeah that photo shows the same mistake we have upstairs, the wall beside the fridge will not allow the door to open far enough. Your angle doesn't work with a fridge that fills the hole.



 I measured mine and saw I had room for the fridge at the end of the run with 4 or 5 inches left over. I figured I would make an oak filler for the end or a little cubby for the broom. As it was 4 or 5 inches of cocking the fridge let it swing open great. I cut the counter top at the same angle as my fridge doesnt have that wood wall thing. Gives you the side of the fridge for magnets too. So now I have a wedge shape corner by the fridge and the dog keeps her toys in there.


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> I measured mine and saw I had room for the fridge at the end of the run with 4 or 5 inches left over. I figured I would make an oak filler for the end or a little cubby for the broom. As it was 4 or 5 inches of cocking the fridge let it swing open great. I cut the counter top at the same angle as my fridge doesnt have that wood wall thing. Gives you the side of the fridge for magnets too. So now I have a wedge shape corner by the fridge and the dog keeps her toys in there.



Usually I can build a picture from the thousand words, but not today:rofl::rofl:


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> "What can go wrong will", and a wood screw with 1/2" penetration is a failure waiting for an opportunity.
> .



Yup you are right someone should do up a test and load that cupboard until it fails.
Keep in mind that the bottom is glued and pin nailed and may or may not be in a dado. and will fail long before you get to 100 lbs. Do you really think the wood or screw will fail with 12 lbs of shear.:nono:


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## bud16415 (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Yup you are right someone should do up a test and load that cupboard until it fails.
> Keep in mind that the bottom is glued and pin nailed and may or may not be in a dado. and will fail long before you get to 100 lbs. Do you really think the wood or screw will fail with 12 lbs of shear.:nono:



One of two things happen with the fridge topper cabinet. One is it is too high to use so you keep chips and bread up there some cereal also. The second thing they get used for is they are too high to get used so you fill it full of that second set of dishes you had to have and never use along with a couple stacks of cast iron frying pans you dont use. The real junk gets crammed in on top of the fridge in the crack till it falls behind.


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

bud16415 said:


> One of two things happen with the fridge topper cabinet. One is it is too high to use so you keep chips and bread up there some cereal also. The second thing they get used for is they are too high to get used so you fill it full of that second set of dishes you had to have and never use along with a couple stacks of cast iron frying pans you dont use. The real junk gets crammed in on top of the fridge in the crack till it falls behind.



Mine has all the paper work that came with appliances.:thbup:


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## Snoonyb (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Yup you are right someone should do up a test and load that cupboard until it fails.
> Keep in mind that the bottom is glued and pin nailed and may or may not be in a dado. and will fail long before you get to 100 lbs. Do you really think the wood or screw will fail with 12 lbs of shear.:nono:



Back to the question; how many screws with 1/2" penetration?

!2lb. of shear in 1-1/2 thread of a wood screw, really?


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Back to the question; how many screws with 1/2" penetration?
> 
> !2lb. of shear in 1-1/2 thread of a wood screw, really?



asked and answered. 4 in the front behind the hinges and 4 near the back.
as the back ones will also have a cupboard on the other side of the gable the screw could be 2 inches but for the sake of argument I will stay with 1" screws
 and say that 8 screws will provide more shear strength than the floor can carry.

We can look up the shear strength of the screw and as far as the the wood I would point you to
http://www.widgetco.com/shelf-pins

And in fact if all other cupboards are attached to the back wall and the gables go to the floor, the cupboard could be held up with pins, similar to the shelf pins. As there will be no pull out action to consider.


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## slownsteady (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Usually I can build a picture from the thousand words, but not today:rofl::rofl:


Not enough words....:rofl:


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

slownsteady said:


> Not enough words....:rofl:



It takes skill to write a picture.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 10, 2017)

"And in fact if all other cupboards are attached to the back wall and the gables go to the floor, the cupboard could be held up with pins, similar to the shelf pins. As there will be no pull out action to consider."

The pre-finished end panels go to the floor, so besides the screws into the cabinet and the screws into the end panels, you would also dowel into the end panels and find or contrive some sort of pin for that. interesting.


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## nealtw (Jan 10, 2017)

Are you still at it. Wrap you head around the fact that I can by drawer slides rated up to 200 lbs and you mount them with 8 #6 x 1/2" screws so there is no question everything will stay together just fine.


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## Snoonyb (Jan 10, 2017)

nealtw said:


> Are you still at it. Wrap you head around the fact that I can by drawer slides rated up to 200 lbs and you mount them with 8 #6 x 1/2" screws so there is no question everything will stay together just fine.



So, you dowel dwr. slides into a refer. decorative end panel?

I'm just trying to get you to clarify how cumbersome your method really is, for the benefit of others.


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## vinny186 (Jan 12, 2017)

My fridge is 32 1/2" wide and my fridge cabinet is 33" so I decided to add 1/2" of cabinet filler strips on both sides of the cabinet. 

Because I'm installing this myself, I need to secure the other end panel to the wall and/or the other end panel then raise the cabinet into place. 

Would you guys attach the filler strips before or after the cabinet is in place?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 12, 2017)

To keep the faceframe of the cabinet tight to both decorative end panels only use a filler that will bring the side of the upper flush with the side of the faceframe, which in modulars is 1/8", any more then requires a scribe mold to bridge the gap between the faceframe of the upper and both end panels.

Add the filler before you install the upper and a strip at both the top and bottom of the sides and you'll have no deflection when you nail at the top of the end panels.


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