# flooring delemma



## fred47 (Jan 2, 2015)

I am currently remodeling our kitchen. Our house is wood frame with a basement and two floors above that was built in 1978. The kitchen is on the main floor with the basement below. The original floors had 21/32" plywood as a sub floor--then 21/32" particle board on top of that--then sheet linoleum as a finished flooring.

The particle board has deteriorated over the years in several places where water leaks have caused some problems. My local lumber yard told me to remove the particle board and replace it with "Advantech". (I live in a rural area with a population of about 4,000 people. The nearest Lowe's or Homedepot is about 1-1/2 hours away.)

Anyway--I want to remove the particle board but when I called the company that makes Advantech they told me that the linoleum companies will not warranty their products if I were to install it over the Advantech. They that is a problem I do not know--I guess that I will be calling Huber back to find out.

Plus I have another problem--the old particle board is 21/32" thick-- and the Advantech is 23/32" thick. I plan on replacing the old particle board everywhere EXCEPT in the one bedroom and the bathroom on the main floor. So I need to match the thickness  (21/32") as close as I can. I would rather not go thicker than 21/32". I think that it would be better to stay at 19/32" so that I could shim up the NEW layer of plywood (or whatever I use) to meet the old particle that will remain in the bathroom and the one bedroom.

If I need to replace the particle board with plywood then so be it. However, I am getting all kinds of information from the lumber yards in my area--like "you can't get 19/32" plywood that is finished on one side"--"oh sure you can use 5/8" OSB and put linoleum on top of it without installing an underlayment"--"we put linoleum over Advantech all of the time and have not had any problems".....etc etc

Any help is appreciated....


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## CallMeVilla (Jan 2, 2015)

Well, not a fan of linoleum anyway ... with so many durable and beautiful finish floors, why go there?  Slight subfloor variations will "telegraph" through linoleum, hence your problem.  Why not laminate flooring?  Tile?  The subfloor tolerances for those products can handle 1/16" differences.  You could patch the bad spots, and keep the good parts.

Think about how to make it easier ...


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

You may have had linoleum in 1978, but I'm sure you are talking about sheet vinyl this time. If the seams between the Advantech panels are not ultra tight, they will show through the floor covering (as CMV mentioned). I don't know why that would be any different with plywood panels...still gonna have seams. But as long as you don't have gaps between the sheets, you should be fine. Did you ask the vendors if there was anything in the advantech that would react (chemically?) with the flooring?


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## joecaption (Jan 3, 2015)

All you needed to do was lay 1/4" multiply subfloor rated plywood over the Advantech if you really want sheet flooring.
Advantech is far more water resistant then plywood,  no voids, and super strong.
It's common to just use a transition strip if there's a height difference.
Using a thinner subfloor is more likely to give you a weak, flexing floor.


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## Rusty (Jan 3, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> Well, not a fan of linoleum anyway ... with so many durable and beautiful finish floors, why go there?  Slight subfloor variations will "telegraph" through linoleum, hence your problem.  Why not laminate flooring?  Tile?  The subfloor tolerances for those products can handle 1/16" differences.  You could patch the bad spots, and keep the good parts.
> 
> Think about how to make it easier ...



Don't know why anyone would suggest using laminate instead of lino or vinyl. They are both better products. Laminate is at the bottom when it comes to durability and quality.


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## fred47 (Jan 3, 2015)

CallMeVilla said:


> Well, not a fan of linoleum anyway ... with so many durable and beautiful finish floors, why go there?  Slight subfloor variations will "telegraph" through linoleum, hence your problem.  Why not laminate flooring?  Tile?  The subfloor tolerances for those products can handle 1/16" differences.  You could patch the bad spots, and keep the good parts.
> 
> Think about how to make it easier ...



This house is not worth spending too much money on the flooring. When we moved into this house in 2004 we had the old linoleum replaced with NEW linoleum and I served us well. I need something that will stand up to sand and grit from the grand-kids.

I will get some quotes on different types of flooring and go from there.


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## fred47 (Jan 3, 2015)

joecaption said:


> All you needed to do was lay 1/4" multiply subfloor rated plywood over the Advantech if you really want sheet flooring.
> Advantech is far more water resistant then plywood,  no voids, and super strong.
> It's common to just use a transition strip if there's a height difference.
> Using a thinner subfloor is more likely to give you a weak, flexing floor.



When I remove the particle board I will need something (Advantech or plywood, etc) that will replace the particle board and be 21/32" thick or just a tad thinner (hopefully 19/32") Plus it will need to be smooth on one side in case we decide on linoleum.


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## slownsteady (Jan 3, 2015)

would it be worth it to use some self-leveling filler to bring the floor up to 23/32? What's the lesser of the two evils?


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## Jaz (Jan 5, 2015)

Fred,

First decide what flooring you're gonna use and read their directions.  I suggest you replace the particle board with ½" underlayment grade plywood then you'll be able to add the ¼" underlayment needed for the sheet vinyl.  (not linoleum)  You'll find ½" ply measures a bit thinner than ½", so it'll be almost ¾" plus the flooring.  This will keep the floors close to the same height.  Go with 19/32" if you can.  

Darn if I recall seeing ply that was stamped 21/32" thick.  Today it's nominal 19/32" (&#8541;") or 23/32" (¾").  Modern ply is 1/32" thinner than the stated thickness.  



			
				CallMeVilla said:
			
		

> You could patch the bad spots, and keep the good parts.


 (referring to the old particle board).

Don't do that, particle board belongs at the curb.



			
				slownsteady said:
			
		

> If the seams between the Advantech panels are not ultra tight, they will show through the floor covering.......



The seams in structural ply/OSB are generally gapped and not as smooth as those of the special ¼" underlayment made to accept vinyl.  You do not install glue down vinyl to those type of panels.  

Jaz


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## nealtw (Jan 5, 2015)

(Sanded 3/4) plywood will be real close to what you want for thickness and is as smooth as you need


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## Jaz (Jan 6, 2015)

nealtw said:
			
		

> (Sanded 3/4) plywood will be real close to what you want for thickness and is as smooth as you need



I disagree, I don't think it's the best way.  You do not install glue-down sheet vinyl directly to ¾" underlayment.  Most manufacturers tell you to install a proper ¼" instead.  Among other reasons the ¼" will be much easier to remove when it's time.  Loose lay or perimeter glued/stapled vinyls are fine though.

But again, decide which floor first.

Jaz


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## nealtw (Jan 6, 2015)

Jaz said:


> I disagree, I don't think it's the best way.  You do not install glue-down sheet vinyl directly to ¾" underlayment.  Most manufacturers tell you to install a proper ¼" instead.  Among other reasons the ¼" will be much easier to remove when it's time.  Loose lay or perimeter glued/stapled vinyls are fine though.
> 
> But again, decide which floor first.
> 
> Jaz



And there I stude , corrected with out much to say:hide:


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## oldognewtrick (Jan 6, 2015)

nealtw said:


> And there I stude , corrected with out much to say:hide:



Stuff happens to the best of us.....:beer:


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## fred47 (Jan 10, 2015)

Jaz said:


> Fred,
> 
> First decide what flooring you're gonna use and read their directions.  I suggest you replace the particle board with ½" underlayment grade plywood then you'll be able to add the ¼" underlayment needed for the sheet vinyl.  (not linoleum)  You'll find ½" ply measures a bit thinner than ½", so it'll be almost ¾" plus the flooring.  This will keep the floors close to the same height.  Go with 19/32" if you can.
> 
> ...




 I decided to go with 5/8" AC plywood (it is 19/32" so it should be close enough for gov work!) and I won't be worrying about putting down twice as many panels. I still have not decided which type of flooring to use. 

Has anyone out there heard of the new vinyl that does not require gluing???     
http://www.tarkettna.com/Products/LuxuryFloors/Permastone

I did call the company that makes Advantech--they said that because the process for making Advantech includes a wax that makes the panels more water resistant the glue will not stick to the panels as it should. Also--and this is good to know--if you paint Advantech be sure to use a oil base paint--latex will not stick to it!


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## Rusty (Jan 10, 2015)

So you are putting vinyl directly on the 5/8 plywood?


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## slownsteady (Jan 11, 2015)

Loose-lay vinyl supposedly works well, but you aren't supposed to put heavy objects on it. But damned if I can find a room that will have nothing in it


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## nealtw (Jan 11, 2015)

I thought loose lay vinyl was long gone, I guess any old can be new again.


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## mckee113 (Jan 14, 2015)

Fred,

Most luxury vinyl tiles are still glued down. There are some that are manufactured to be a floating floor using a locking system similar to what you see on laminate floors, but they are typically wood looks. You might look at USfloors coretec for a glue less install in both tile and wood styles.


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## nealtw (Jan 14, 2015)

mckee113 said:


> Fred,
> 
> Most luxury vinyl tiles are still glued down. There are some that are manufactured to be a floating floor using a locking system similar to what you see on laminate floors, but they are typically wood looks. You might look at USfloors coretec for a glue less install in both tile and wood styles.



Welcome to the site.:beer:


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