# How to get this ready for cabinets and appliances?



## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

Obviously I need to put drywall over the pipes. How do I build back the wood frame support?

What should I do where the brick was in the corner? I would like for it to just look like the rest of the wall. Plain, flat, and white. 

And what could I do about hiding the wires that are near the ceiling? The handyman that was working mentioned putting some drywall there in the shape of a triangle. How many wood cleats would I need for this? What size wood and on all 3 sides?

Also, how do I know how many coats of drywall mud were put on this ceiling? I wasn't here when it was done. Is it ready for painting? What would be the danger of painting with too few coats? What is the purpose of the second and third drywall mud coat?


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## nealtw (Nov 15, 2017)

Not sure what you are talking about. If you are talking about closing a corner on a 45* that can be done with 2 cant strips, one on each wall.

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.hemfir-cant-strip-s2s-2-inchx2-inchx8--feet.1000183551.html

A cant strip is a 2 x 2 ripped on the 45*


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## Snoonyb (Nov 15, 2017)

*"Obviously I need to put drywall over the pipes. How do I build back the wood frame support?"*

What is going to be placed on, or attached to that wall?

*"What should I do where the brick was in the corner? I would like for it to just look like the rest of the wall. Plain, flat, and white." *

Whoever taped and mudded the drywall could have/should have skim coated the masonry.

*"And what could I do about hiding the wires that are near the ceiling?"*

What are they for and if switched, from where?



*"Also, how do I know how many coats of drywall mud were put on this ceiling?"*

Ask the vendor.

*"Is it ready for painting?"*

Ask the vendor.

*"What would be the danger of painting with too few coats?"*

The finish.

*"What is the purpose of the second and third drywall mud coat?"*

Covered in one of "your" previous threads.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

How do I bring wire through this conduit that's run through the concrete floor? There's about 9 feet of distance.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> *"Obviously I need to put drywall over the pipes. How do I build back the wood frame support?"*
> 
> What is going to be placed on, or attached to that wall?
> 
> ...



There will be cabinets, an oven, and a microwave with range hood attached to the wall.

The wire dangling in the middle was to a light fixture no longer in use. I'm going to snip it and cap it. The other two go to the a/c and to some lights in the kitchen, switched in the kitchen.

I guess I will just rip off the plywood that has the remains of the brick on it and replace it with drywall.

"The vendor" is a handyman that ran off. I have no idea how many coats he put on it. From looking at it, I would guess one. So I will add two more just to be safe.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 15, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> How do I bring wire through this conduit that's run through the concrete floor? There's about 9 feet of distance.



Find the other end and tell us about it.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 15, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> There will be cabinets, an oven, and a microwave with range hood attached to the wall.



So, who's running all the required services, prior to the walls being closed up?



farmerjohn1324 said:


> The wire dangling in the middle was to a light fixture no longer in use. I'm going to snip it and cap it. The other two go to the a/c and to some lights in the kitchen, switched in the kitchen.



Why not a fixture over the sink?
Why not terminate the conductors correctly, like you come here in advice for?



farmerjohn1324 said:


> I guess I will just rip off the plywood that has the remains of the brick on it and replace it with drywall.



Is the masonry just a veneer?



farmerjohn1324 said:


> "The vendor" is a handyman that ran off. I have no idea how many coats he put on it. From looking at it, I would guess one. So I will add two more just to be safe.



It looks like 2, so rub your hand across it and use a straight edge to determine the amount of the depression.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Find the other end and tell us about it.



I found the answer on Google. Fish tape.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> So, who's running all the required services, prior to the walls being closed up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who is running the services? Most of them are in place, but I'm doing the rest. I have to connect the water lines and move the 240 outlet to where the stove is going to be, in the middle of the back wall.

The sink is going to be in a center island in the middle of the room. There are enough other lights in the room that I don't think I need one over the stove. Two pendant lights will hang over the center island.

How do I terminate a conductor correctly? Currently, it's wire nutted, so I was just going to shorten the wire and wire nut it again.

Yes, the masonry is a veneer.

However, I have bigger problems as seen below.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 15, 2017)

Pretty sure my handyman installed PVC, rather than CPVC for the pipes going underneath the concrete that will go into the center island, so I will have to cut up the floor with my 7" angle grinder. Oh well. Tried to save money by having a handyman teach me as he went, but he had his limits.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 15, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I found the answer on Google. Fish tape.



If the 2 white PVC are the water lines for the Island/peninsula, where is the waste line?

Is the MC cable intended to be the elec.?

Also in photo's 1 & 2 there is a no-hub coupling on a PVC line that doesn't appear to have a vent, which should have glued couplings, unless you are going to provide an access panel.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Who is running the services? Most of them are in place, but I'm doing the rest. I have to connect the water lines and move the 240 outlet to where the stove is going to be, in the middle of the back wall.



Then what are going to do with all the unattached plumbing?

I don;t see any counter recep. above the incomplete wall.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> The sink is going to be in a center island in the middle of the room. There are enough other lights in the room that I don't think I need one over the stove. Two pendant lights will hang over the center island.



You need power for the hood.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> How do I terminate a conductor correctly? Currently, it's wire nutted, so I was just going to shorten the wire and wire nut it again.



In a "J" box, not just wire nutted and stuffed in a wall cavity.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Yes, the masonry is a veneer.



Then peal and finish.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> If the 2 white PVC are the water lines for the Island/peninsula, where is the waste line?
> 
> Is the MC cable intended to be the elec.?
> 
> Also in photo's 1 & 2 there is a no-hub coupling on a PVC line that doesn't appear to have a vent, which should have glued couplings, unless you are going to provide an access panel.



In this picture, you can see 3 pipes (2 small, 1 large) and a metal conduit. The 2 small pipes are PVC pipes that I need to replace with CPVC. The large PVC pipe is the drain. However, the "drain pipe" you see near the opened wall is unattached. The drain pipe goes underground and connects with the black vent pipe underneath the slab.

Yes, the MC cable will be the electric. I can see 3 wires in it when looking into it. Something I didn't notice before.

If I replace the no-hub with a cap, does this eliminate the need for a Studor vent?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Then what are going to do with all the unattached plumbing?
> 
> I don;t see any counter recep. above the incomplete wall.
> 
> ...



What unattached plumbing do you speak of?

There is a GFCI/switch that will be replaced with just a GFCI on the left and I have begun to cut a hole for a second GFCI outlet on the right. I put a knife in it so you can see.

Yes, I will need power for the hood and the microwave as well. I could take that wire (it's 1 Romex) and use it to power an outlet that is kept in a cabinet above the microwave.

When you say "peel and finish," do you mean remove the remnants of the brick and mortar and smooth the wall with joint compound?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> In this picture, you can see 3 pipes (2 small, 1 large) and a metal conduit.



If the metal conduit you are referring to, is the 1/2" flex, I mistook that for MC cable, however, how deep is it buried, and if it is in the subsoil it should have been elec. PVC or ridgid, not flex. 



farmerjohn1324 said:


> The large PVC pipe is the drain. However, the "drain pipe" you see near the opened wall is unattached.



Then it should have been abandoned, capped and/or removed. 



farmerjohn1324 said:


> The drain pipe goes underground and connects with the black vent pipe underneath the slab.



So, the island vent will be a studor vent, correct.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Yes, the MC cable will be the electric. I can see 3 wires in it when looking into it. Something I didn't notice before.



If we've progressed to the same page, what I had perceived as MC is actually metallic flex. What elec. equipment will be at the Island, besides na GFCI, what are the colors of the conductors?



farmerjohn1324 said:


> If I replace the no-hub with a cap, does this eliminate the need for a Studor vent?



The no-hub coupling I am referring to is on the left side of the 4" vent.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> What unattached plumbing do you speak of?



Those protruding from the slab have been addressed. the other is on the right side of the 4" stack.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> There is a GFCI/switch that will be replaced with just a GFCI on the left and I have begun to cut a hole for a second GFCI outlet on the right. I put a knife in it so you can see.



Thanks, I was asking to insure their inclusion.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Yes, I will need power for the hood and the microwave as well. I could take that wire (it's 1 Romex) and use it to power an outlet that is kept in a cabinet above the microwave.



The MW needs to be on a separate circuit.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> When you say "peel and finish," do you mean remove the remnants of the brick and mortar and smooth the wall with joint compound?



Correct, unless it's easier to just replace the drywall.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> If the metal conduit you are referring to, is the 1/2" flex, I mistook that for MC cable, however, how deep is it buried, and if it is in the subsoil it should have been elec. PVC or ridgid, not flex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-10-ft-PVC-Schedule-40-Conduit-67462/202295893

Is this what I should buy for the electric that's run under the slab? It is in the soil under the 4" slab.

I will remove the unused PVC drain pipe when I cut the slab. Yes, the island will be a studor vent.

The island will have a dishwasher, garbage disposal, and switch to operate the garbage disposal located inside the sink base cabinet. I hadn't planned on putting any outlets (GFCI) on the island. Should I? If so, where should I put it? Inside the cabinet? On the side (children hazard!)? Drill through the granite countertop?

If I replace the no-hub coupling with PVC, then do I need a vent other than inside the island? Must I replace the no-hub cap with a PVC cap? Believe it or not, there is a no-hub buried 6-8" underground near where the PVC drain pipe meets the black iron drain pipe. Is that bad?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> Those protruding from the slab have been addressed. the other is on the right side of the 4" stack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The cap on the right side of the stack is where the sink used to attach to. Can I not leave it like that, maybe if I change the cap to PVC?

Does the MW need to be on its own individual circuit? Why is this? My MW at home is just plugged in to a normal outlet.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-10-ft-PVC-Schedule-40-Conduit-67462/202295893
> 
> Is this what I should buy for the electric that's run under the slab? It is in the soil under the 4" slab.



You should be able to pull the circuits necessary through 1/2."

Keep in mind, you should have a min. of 2 appliance circuits, and there for counter appliances.

Unless it is a separate circuit, the 2nd counter recep. on the wall can be GFCI protected by the existing GFCI.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> The island will have a dishwasher, garbage disposal, and switch to operate the garbage disposal located inside the sink base cabinet.



Instead of the inconvenience of a switch inside of a cabinet, there are countertop push button disposal switches.

The DW should have its own circuit.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> I hadn't planned on putting any outlets (GFCI) on the island. Should I? If so, where should I put it? Inside the cabinet? On the side (children hazard!)? Drill through the granite countertop?



You'll have a countertop work area either too one/or both sides of the sink so a cabinet mounted GFCI, on one/or both ends.

The make them tamperproof.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> If I replace the no-hub coupling with PVC, then do I need a vent other than inside the island? Must I replace the no-hub cap with a PVC cap? Believe it or not, there is a no-hub buried 6-8" underground near where the PVC drain pipe meets the black iron drain pipe. Is that bad?



It appears that that is a drain line for a sink and need to be vented.

Any fitting with a compression cap needs to be accessible.

They should be glued fittings.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> The cap on the right side of the stack is where the sink used to attach to. Can I not leave it like that, maybe if I change the cap to PVC?
> 
> Does the MW need to be on its own individual circuit? Why is this? My MW at home is just plugged in to a normal outlet.



As long as the cap is glued.

Countertop MW are among those covered under the counter appliance circuits, so if it's not permanently attached it doesn't need it's own separate circuit.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 16, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> You should be able to pull the circuits necessary through 1/2."
> 
> Keep in mind, you should have a min. of 2 appliance circuits, and there for counter appliances.
> 
> ...



Both the GCFI's will be on the same circuit as the microwave. The microwave will be plugged in to an outlet in a cabinet. Is this okay?

One problem I see is that that same circuit is all I have available to bring power to the center island.


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## Snoonyb (Nov 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Both the GCFI's will be on the same circuit as the microwave. The microwave will be plugged in to an outlet in a cabinet. Is this okay?



If the MW is installed in a cabinet, whether you have a trim kit to finish the installation, or not, it requires a separate circuit.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> One problem I see is that that same circuit is all I have available to bring power to the center island.



That's unfortunate, besides not meeting requirements.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> If the MW is installed in a cabinet, whether you have a trim kit to finish the installation, or not, it requires a separate circuit.
> 
> 
> 
> That's unfortunate, besides not meeting requirements.



Well it's not IN a cabinet, it's screwed in to the bottom of a trim piece with an outlet probably in the cabinet to the right.

So I need 3 circuits total here? I still don't get why the microwave has to be on it's own.

Tomorrow, I will have to map all the circuits in the house.

What is the guideline? Is it a certain number of amps or watts maximum per circuit?

My MW at home is on a shared circuit.

Is there any danger in just switching the breakers out for ones that can handle a higher capacity?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Well it's not IN a cabinet, it's screwed in to the bottom of a trim piece with an outlet probably in the cabinet to the right.



This is becoming so convoluted, it's almost not understandable.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> So I need 3 circuits total here? I still don't get why the microwave has to be on it's own.



So far.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> What is the guideline? Is it a certain number of amps or watts maximum per circuit?



20amp circuits.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> My MW at home is on a shared circuit.



As discussed, if it is free standing on a counter.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Is there any danger in just switching the breakers out for ones that can handle a higher capacity?



As has been discussed in your previous threads, 12ga. wire for 20amp breakers, 14ga wire for 15amp breakers.

You really need to pull permits for these ventures.


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## zannej (Nov 17, 2017)

I'm not sure about your jurisdiction, but in some cases having a power outlet in a kitchen island is REQUIRED by building code. I think 20amp GFCI is recommended. and I think garbage disposal should be separate from dishwasher, but I'm not an electrical expert. I'm still trying to learn the basics right now.

The reason for the microwave having it's own circuit is that it can draw a lot of power. If you have it sharing circuits with other appliances it can cause a brownout or shut off (it can trip the breaker). Before we had the wiring re-done mine used to cause the lights to dim when it was used.

A note on island plumbing, make sure that a studor vent (AAV) is allowed in your jurisdiction, is accessible, and that somewhere on that drain pipe there is an actual full vent to the outside. It only handles the negative pressure, not the positive, and the diaphragm inside can fail within 2 years and require it to be replaced. Also, you can do a loop vent meant for islands.










Although, from my understanding this still has the same trap arm length restrictions as regular trap arms (and that limit depends on whether you are under IPC or UPC). IPC allows for longer runs-- I think you can have a 5' trap arm before it needs to vent.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

zannej said:


> I'm not sure about your jurisdiction, but in some cases having a power outlet in a kitchen island is REQUIRED by building code. I think 20amp GFCI is recommended. and I think garbage disposal should be separate from dishwasher, but I'm not an electrical expert. I'm still trying to learn the basics right now.
> 
> The reason for the microwave having it's own circuit is that it can draw a lot of power. If you have it sharing circuits with other appliances it can cause a brownout or shut off (it can trip the breaker). Before we had the wiring re-done mine used to cause the lights to dim when it was used.
> 
> ...



There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.

In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.
> 
> In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?



That doesn't mean it was done to "present" code, or to code at all.

Not without you providing a floor plan and fixture layout.


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## zannej (Nov 17, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.
> 
> In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?


I'm not sure what you want me to explain.
Studor vents aka Cheater valves are a dirty fix for when normal vents are not possible or would be too difficult to do (either physically and/or financially). They are not ideal and are sort of a last resort or temporary fix until you can get proper venting. As I mentioned they only allow negative pressure and do not handle positive pressure so they are an imperfect solution. In some jurisdictions, studor vents are banned. It's likely the pipes in your current residence are either plumbed correctly and did not need the vents or they may be outdated and have S-traps and/or no proper vents. I don't know since I haven't seen the plumbing.

If you could come up with a general sketch of the layout showing distances of the fixtures from the vent stack, it could help. If the end of the trap in the island would be less than 5' from the vent stack in the wall, you could probably use the loop vent and run to that vent under the floor.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 17, 2017)

zannej said:


> I'm not sure what you want me to explain.
> Studor vents aka Cheater valves are a dirty fix for when normal vents are not possible or would be too difficult to do (either physically and/or financially). They are not ideal and are sort of a last resort or temporary fix until you can get proper venting. As I mentioned they only allow negative pressure and do not handle positive pressure so they are an imperfect solution. In some jurisdictions, studor vents are banned. It's likely the pipes in your current residence are either plumbed correctly and did not need the vents or they may be outdated and have S-traps and/or no proper vents. I don't know since I haven't seen the plumbing.
> 
> If you could come up with a general sketch of the layout showing distances of the fixtures from the vent stack, it could help. If the end of the trap in the island would be less than 5' from the vent stack in the wall, you could probably use the loop vent and run to that vent under the floor.



The island will be about 12' feet away from the vent stack, so I'll make sure a Studor vent gets put in.

Why isn't one large vent stack enough for the whole house?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 17, 2017)

The short answer is that liquid replaces air in a trap and without replacing that air, the liquid will not flow.


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## zannej (Nov 18, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> The island will be about 12' feet away from the vent stack, so I'll make sure a Studor vent gets put in.
> 
> Why isn't one large vent stack enough for the whole house?



You can have one vent stack for the whole house so long as all of the fixtures can tie in to it within their code limits.
I apologize if this is something you already know, but a breakdown of the system:
Fixture ->drain->P-trap->trap arm->vent. Sink drain is generally 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inner diameter (ID). The P-trap holds water to prevent sewer gases from coming up in to the home. Anytime the pipe is filled completely with water, it blocks the travel of air. Trap should be 1-1/2" ID and coming off of it, the trap arm should slope downward at 1/4" per ft. The developed length of the trap arm must be no less than two pipe diameters in length (if less than that it would allow water to be siphoned out of the trap, thus allowing sewer gases up) but the developed length should also be short enough that the slope is not greater than one pipe diameter. If it is sloped too steeply or if the run is too long, water will block off the flow of air in the trap arm. So, 1-1/2" trap ID trap arm should be no shorter than 3" (although 4" might be recommended) and no longer than 5'. If you have any nearby walls or columns that would allow you to have an auxiliary vent that goes up before the length exceeds 5', it can tie in to the vent stack in a crawlspace or attic or inside of  an interior wall. A drain pipe can not go horizontal until it is at or after a vent. The vent must remain vertical for at least 6" above the flood level/rim of the highest fixture.

The vent pipe must slope upward at about 1/4" per ft once it is horizontal.

So, say you have this island and you add a decorative column or two that go up to the ceiling, you can run the plumbing similarly to how it would be for a sink near a wall. You just use the column to carry the vent up and then, if space allows, run the vent horizontal in the attic/crawlspace/between floors to meet the main vent stack. Thus you would eliminate the need for an AAV.

Does that make sense?


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 18, 2017)

In order to create the new circuit for the dishwasher, what do you think of this?

The circuit panel is on the other side of the wall marked with a blue dot. Instead of going the long route marked in green, I could take the shorter one marked in red.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 18, 2017)

zannej said:


> You can have one vent stack for the whole house so long as all of the fixtures can tie in to it within their code limits.
> I apologize if this is something you already know, but a breakdown of the system:
> Fixture ->drain->P-trap->trap arm->vent. Sink drain is generally 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inner diameter (ID). The P-trap holds water to prevent sewer gases from coming up in to the home. Anytime the pipe is filled completely with water, it blocks the travel of air. Trap should be 1-1/2" ID and coming off of it, the trap arm should slope downward at 1/4" per ft. The developed length of the trap arm must be no less than two pipe diameters in length (if less than that it would allow water to be siphoned out of the trap, thus allowing sewer gases up) but the developed length should also be short enough that the slope is not greater than one pipe diameter. If it is sloped too steeply or if the run is too long, water will block off the flow of air in the trap arm. So, 1-1/2" trap ID trap arm should be no shorter than 3" (although 4" might be recommended) and no longer than 5'. If you have any nearby walls or columns that would allow you to have an auxiliary vent that goes up before the length exceeds 5', it can tie in to the vent stack in a crawlspace or attic or inside of  an interior wall. A drain pipe can not go horizontal until it is at or after a vent. The vent must remain vertical for at least 6" above the flood level/rim of the highest fixture.
> 
> ...



Yes, but I can't do the columns.

I will go with a loop vent instead of a Studor vent. In your diagram, there were two drain lines going back towards the vent stack. One smaller than the other. What is the purpose of these two drain pipes? Is one for mostly water and one for mostly air?

Edit: okay I get the purpose of the two pipes. One is drain, one is vent. If I used a Studor vent, would that allow me to only need one drain pipe?

Edit #2: After reading this website...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/how-to-plumb-an-island-sink/amp/

I'm going with the Studor Vent.

As a rule of thumb, should a Studor Vent be used when the P-trap (or fixture?) is more than 5 feet away from the vent stack?


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## zannej (Nov 18, 2017)

I can't answer about the electrical, but it is not very common for studor vents to be used in regular houses-- they are mostly used in mobile homes/trailers where you don't have as much flexibility/space with your design plans. Most of the time the plumbers will encourage people to change the design rather than use a studor vent. It is basically a temporary solution or last resort.

How far is the side wall with the electrical from the island plumbing? If you want to run the electrical under there, maybe you could divert the plumbing and put a vent up in that wall and then route it back to the main stack- drain under the floor and vent in the attic tying in to the stack. 

You can still go the AAV route, which would eliminate the need for the loop vent if you really want to. I believe you would do the plumbing just like you would for the vented stuff and just have the pipe with the studor vent come up about 4 to 6 inches. I've heard some people complain that sometimes studor vents can allow bad smells in to the air, but I don't have any in my home so I wouldn't know. It all depends on your budget and whether it is worth it to you to do it right or do it just cheaply and possibly have to replace the studor vent every few years.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 20, 2017)

zannej said:


> You can have one vent stack for the whole house so long as all of the fixtures can tie in to it within their code limits.
> I apologize if this is something you already know, but a breakdown of the system:
> Fixture ->drain->P-trap->trap arm->vent. Sink drain is generally 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inner diameter (ID). The P-trap holds water to prevent sewer gases from coming up in to the home. Anytime the pipe is filled completely with water, it blocks the travel of air. Trap should be 1-1/2" ID and coming off of it, the trap arm should slope downward at 1/4" per ft. The developed length of the trap arm must be no less than two pipe diameters in length (if less than that it would allow water to be siphoned out of the trap, thus allowing sewer gases up) but the developed length should also be short enough that the slope is not greater than one pipe diameter. If it is sloped too steeply or if the run is too long, water will block off the flow of air in the trap arm. So, 1-1/2" trap ID trap arm should be no shorter than 3" (although 4" might be recommended) and no longer than 5'. If you have any nearby walls or columns that would allow you to have an auxiliary vent that goes up before the length exceeds 5', it can tie in to the vent stack in a crawlspace or attic or inside of  an interior wall. A drain pipe can not go horizontal until it is at or after a vent. The vent must remain vertical for at least 6" above the flood level/rim of the highest fixture.
> 
> ...



So basically, if the trap is >5' from the main vent stack, it needs either it's own vent stack, or a Studor vent.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 20, 2017)

Also, I'm going to give that over the range microwave it's own dedicated circuit, but can I ask why this is needed?

The MW I use at home is 1050 watts and plugs into an outlet, not dedicated circuit. This one is 1100 watts. What's the big difference, other than the fact that code requires it?

Btw, Florida uses NEC 2011.

Also, do you agree with this quote I found...

"One rule of thumb is to assign a maximum draw of 1.5 amps to each receptacle, which allows for 10 receptacles on a 20-amp circuit."


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## Snoonyb (Nov 20, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Also, I'm going to give that over the range microwave it's own dedicated circuit, but can I ask why this is needed?
> 
> The MW I use at home is 1050 watts and plugs into an outlet, not dedicated circuit. This one is 1100 watts. What's the big difference, *other than the fact that code requires it?*




Exactly! The code trumps what you may view as common practicality.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Btw, Florida uses NEC 2011.



As adopted, or amended?

Municipalities, state and local, can adopt a code out of hand, or they can amend it to include, address or fit a particular condition within their jurisdiction, however that amendment "must meet the intent and purpose of the code." 



farmerjohn1324 said:


> Also, do you agree with this quote I found...
> 
> "One rule of thumb is to assign a maximum draw of 1.5 amps to each receptacle, which allows for 10 receptacles on a 20-amp circuit."



That may be that persons practice for household recep., *other than in the kitchen*, where a min. of appliance circuits is required by code, my general practice is a max. of 6 recep per 20A.


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## zannej (Nov 22, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> So basically, if the trap is >5' from the main vent stack, it needs either it's own vent stack, or a Studor vent.


Yes. It needs its own vent- even if that vent ties in to the main vent stack. If you could get it to the wall and have it go up at least 6" above the flood level of the sink, it could then route horizontally (sloping up 1/4" per ft) to meet with the main vent stack. So, if the auxiliary vent is about 11 feet away and it goes up 1 inch every 4ft, that means it would rise a little less than 3" to reach the main stack (in a straight run).
But, if the drain still ties in to the piping that is vented through the main stack, you could probably use an AAV/studor vent.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 24, 2017)

Is there a power tool that sands drywall mud? Something that could speed the process up? I currently just have a pole sander. What do the pros use?


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## Snoonyb (Nov 24, 2017)

We develop our talents to minimize sanding, however, Home desperado did have a sanding/vacume tool by Porter Cable for rent.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Nov 24, 2017)

Snoonyb said:


> We develop our talents to minimize sanding, however, Home desperado did have a sanding/vacume tool by Porter Cable for rent.



Did it look like this?

http://www.portercable.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11616


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## Snoonyb (Nov 24, 2017)

Yes, with the vacume and filters.


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## mabloodhound (Dec 16, 2017)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Obviously I need to put drywall over the pipes. How do I build back the wood frame support?
> 
> What should I do where the brick was in the corner? I would like for it to just look like the rest of the wall. Plain, flat, and white.
> 
> ...



Back to your original question.

On the lower portion of the wall (where all the pipes are) use 1/2" plywood to cover it instead of drywall.  There are missing studs and the plywood will be strong enough behind your cabinets.

On the triangle piece, you can use construction adhesive to attach another piece of drywall to that existing piece....if that's what you were asking (hard to tell from the photo).

Your ceiling does NOT have enough joint compound.  It should have been feathered out at least 6" on both sides of the tape.  Looks like someone skipped the last steps.

Dave Mason


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 7, 2018)

Are these the right kind of screws to install cabinets?

2.5" into the studs, then 1.5" to fasten cabinets to each other? And 15 ga finishing nails for trim pieces and end panels?


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## nealtw (Jan 7, 2018)

1 1/2 might be to long for joining, I think I have used 1" with a tapered drill countersink


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## Snoonyb (Jan 7, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> Are these the right kind of screws to install cabinets?
> 
> 2.5" into the studs, then 1.5" to fasten cabinets to each other? And 15 ga finishing nails for trim pieces and end panels?



They are correct for attaching to the walls, and incorrect for tying them together.

You tie them together by removing the doors and hinges, clamp the cabinets together, then with one of the bits neal posted, you pilot and countersink, so that when the hinges are reinstalled they hide the screw heads, so the screw head ends up flush with the face frame surface, then use coarse thred drywall screws to pull them together.

Your finish nails are too long as well.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 8, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> They are correct for attaching to the walls, and incorrect for tying them together.
> 
> You tie them together by removing the doors and hinges, clamp the cabinets together, then with one of the bits neal posted, you pilot and countersink, so that when the hinges are reinstalled they hide the screw heads, so the screw head ends up flush with the face frame surface, then use coarse thred drywall screws to pull them together.
> 
> Your finish nails are too long as well.



Okay thanks.

The finish nails in that picture are by accident. I didn't realize they were sitting there.


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## mabloodhound (Jan 8, 2018)

I use a trim head screw for attaching cabinets together.  Length depends on weather you have face frame cabinets or frameless.  For attaching to studs I use a washer head screw which won't pull through the cabinet back.

Dave Mason


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 12, 2018)

Guy told me to replace this top section of drywall with plywood so the cabinets can screw in better. Do you agree?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

Have him help you free of charge, and guarantee the firewall.

Or find the studs and use the truss head screws you asked about.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 13, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> Have him help you free of charge, and guarantee the firewall.
> 
> Or find the studs and use the truss head screws you asked about.



It seems like you're saying 2 different things?

Plywood or no plywood?


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

Look up firewall.


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## farmerjohn1324 (Jan 13, 2018)

Snoonyb said:


> Look up firewall.



I already did.

"a wall or partition designed to inhibit or prevent the spread of fire."

I still don't get what you're saying.

Which one? 

A: Plywood
B: no plywood

I'll probably just go with what he says anyway


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## Snoonyb (Jan 13, 2018)

farmerjohn1324 said:


> I already did.
> 
> "a wall or partition designed to inhibit or prevent the spread of fire."



That would be drywall not plywood, unless you want to purchase fire rated 1/2" plywood at approx. $50 a sheet.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> I still don't get what you're saying.



Now look up the flame spread rating for both plywood and drywall.



farmerjohn1324 said:


> I'll probably just go with what he says anyway



Suite yourself.


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## bud16415 (Jan 13, 2018)

To get this thread back on topic before I close it. 

If you want drywall as a fire break and that is a good idea. Plus the cost of drywall is much lower than plywood. You can predetermine where you will be attaching cabinets and put a 2x4 horizontal nailer securely between the studs at the right heights. 

It is basically blocking screwed in to be strong. It is no different than what one should do in a bathroom when you know where the TP holder will be mounted or towel bars. 

Now play nice boys.


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