# What are the possibilities of putting this furnace in a crawlspace?



## jmr106 (Feb 4, 2016)

Long story short, a sump hole of about 15' long x 4' wide x 3.5' deep was dug out of the dirt crawlspace by former owners. The water heater was placed in it at one corner and a makeshift sump at the other. The water would basically flow out of the retaining wall and over the open floor and did that for a long time.

Over the time, a central heat/air system was put in with no recommendation to put it anywhere else but the hole.

I'm posting photos of where it is now vs where we ideally would need it to be moved, if possible.

This is either a Rheem or Ruud system. 

Found info that states that it is "RGP507EAMER 75K 3 Ton Drive Upflow Gas Furnace"

A google search only gave 3 results, and one of them is this:

http://cdn.globalimageserver.com/fetchdocument-rh.aspx?name=rgps-specification-sheets

It appears to be capable of being installed horizontally, but I see some  warnings on there that it has to be installed a certain way and that  certain sides shouldn't face up. Now the question is...can they fit it  in that space somewhere on one of the sides of the hole? It has a lot of  extra stuff on it (air handler, etc.) that I presume they would have to  tailor to make it work horizontally somehow. 

Then secondly...how much would it generally be to move something like this, as a ballpark estimate? 

The water table and water flow are too high. Poor drainage around the yard. They should have never dug this deep. The water heater in the hole will be converted to an external gas-fired. The hole will be filled in at least halfway or 3/4 of the way with crushed gravel and a proper sump and such still put in, but I'm tired of worrying if the equipment will flood and want to cover this open water.


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## nealtw (Feb 4, 2016)

That is great news that you can flip it, to either side, they would have to cover the hole that has been cut in the side for return air and cut out the bottom so it can all go in a straight line.


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## nealtw (Feb 4, 2016)

That link may not apply to your furnace I think the number has to start with RGJf, so calling rheem might be a good idea.


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## slownsteady (Feb 4, 2016)

Post a pic of the info directly from the furnace


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## jmr106 (Feb 6, 2016)

As an update on the furnace model, I went down there this morning and looked on all four sides of the furnace. No model info or label is there. On the front half (towards the sump hole), there are two access doors to the furnace. I removed both of them, took some photos of the random labeled stuff that I saw and put them back on. Still haven't found a model number apart from the info that they put on the installation (bill) paperwork: RGP507EAMER 75K 3 Ton Drive Upflow Gas Furnace. The only info on the furnace itself tells me that it is a Ruud. 

One photo that I took on the inside of the upper furnace showed this:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





So apparently it can be turned horizontal. The question is...how much to do it and which area to actually put it in. There is no space on the side where the gas line runs. It would have to go on the opposite side of the hole (back where the water heater is in that open area) simple to have the open room.

I noticed a curious little sloped area just on the outside of the side of the wall where someone tried to dig an easier access area to crawl over the bricks and up into the crawlspace. Closer to the wall, it looks like they made it down to about a foot. I know of no water that comes out of that area, even during heavy rain, and that has apparently been that was for 2-3 decades.  Not sure if it was my father or the former owners that did that. So apparently the water level doesn't get too high in the actual crawlspace dirt, it just flows many feet underneath it.


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## buffalo (Feb 6, 2016)

There  should be a model number on the back side of one of the doors or on a sticker or plate on the inside wall of the furnace. It looks like an 80% efficient furnace....with a condensate pump , which makes me believe you have AC ? To have someone move that , thier gonna charge you a bit. Get a bunch of estimates as its more of a labor job than material.also , yes the furnace can be laid on its side , but the AC coil needs to be installed in a way that the drain pan to catch condensation is on the bottom. Some need to be altered , some are interchangable.

How far are we talking about moving it ? 5 ft , 10 ft , ect? 

The list of what needs to happen:

1) disconnect gas , exhaust , return box/filter , lines sets from AC , electrical and taps into supply plenuim . 

2) relocate furnace , I would hang it off the floor joists with 'sammys' . It's a lag bolt that accepts all thread on the other end. And suspend it with unistrut. You can use vibration isolators if your worried about noise. 

3) reconnect flex supply runs to plenuim , you will likely have to extend some .

4) reconnect AC lines sets , this will be costly as you have to revacumn the lines , purge with nitrogen , and recharge the system with refrigerent. If it's an r22 system you can suck the refrigerent back into the outdoor unit , 410a I don't believe you can , but someone who does service work may chime in on that. 

5) rerun your condensate lines.

6) tie you gas back in , pipe , nipple ect

7) tie your exhaust vent back in , 4" round stove pipe?

8 ) patch the side of the furnace the return was in and take it off the bottom 9f the furnace. May require all new metal fittings. 

9) retie electrical In . If it's closer to the power source good , if it's further your adding a junction box to extend it. 

I think that's it?


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## jmr106 (Feb 6, 2016)

buffalo said:


> How far are we talking about moving it ? 5 ft , 10 ft , ect?



About the only place that has sufficient space is that spot in the third photo. That's behind where the water heater is. It is maybe 3 feet from that area to the edge of the cinderblocks. About another foot over to the actual stable dirt. I don't know specifically which end would be pointing where in order to determine how far exactly it would be moving. I presume that the furnace end would be closer to the hole in that it has to vent? The vent is over the hole area, of course. I'm actually not sure where that furnace vents to...forgot to look at that one. Before the central systems were put in, there was a floor furnace. I presume there is another pipe there venting on the roof. A few feet over from the furnace, the gas water heater vents to its own pipe. Could they use that one instead, since it is closer to the area where the system would be installed? 

Yes, there is an a/c unit outside. That condensate pump goes outside to the edge of the house and vents near the a/c unit into the dirt.

So as far as it being moved, I'd guess about 10-12 feet or so.

I'm actually quite fond of the idea of hanging it from the floor joists  if it could be done in such a way that the vibration and noise wouldn't  be an issue, and particularly if the weight won't be an issue with  causing problems in the flooring of the rooms above. I have no idea approximately how  many pounds a system like this weighs. 				The idea of having it off from the dirt completely is rather appealing, but I'm not sure that it could be done.

Any ideas on how much all of that would be? Maybe $1,000 to $1,500 or would it be more than that? I know that it would take quite a while.


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## jmr106 (Feb 6, 2016)

From what I understand, when they changed the old heat pump system out, they apparently had a little comic show in the back yard where one of the workers did something to the valve on the back of the old heat pump unit. It was spraying out refrigerant for a while as they panicked to stop it. haha  Man, I wish I would have been around there with a camera. Sounds funny.


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## buffalo (Feb 7, 2016)

For venting you must have some kind of chimney , wether it be mason block or metal. I'm guessing you have a bvent double wall metal chinmeny. If you have multipule ones they may be different sizes . There is a formula for determining how big a chinmeny must be for what's tied into it. You may not be able to use them at all if you go to far away as you need a good pitch to the chinmey. 

As far as price , it's hard to say. It's almost like redoing the entire job , in a crappy l9cation none the less. My guess is your guess would be the lower end of the spectrum. But I don't know your area and I'm going off a few pictures. 

  Get alot of estimates . You may run across a contractor who is currently slow and will do it for alot less. 

What about hanging it off the floor , where it is , so your not moving it very far? You may be able to spin it without disconnecting it from the line sets as its soft copper. Maybe not but a thought you may want to run by the contractors.


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## jmr106 (Feb 7, 2016)

buffalo said:


> What about hanging it off the floor , where it is , so your not moving it very far? You may be able to spin it without disconnecting it from the line sets as its soft copper. Maybe not but a thought you may want to run by the contractors.



That would be perfectly fine with me. I just want to make sure that it isn't vibrating the floor joists if hung from the floor. If they can cushion it properly so that vibration and noise is minimal, I'd be perfectly fine with it staying where it is at and just flipping horizontal. It isn't particularly a loud unit or anything. I can "hear" it from the other room when it comes on, but it is just the sound of the motors starting up, burners igniting, etc. Not loud or disturbing in any way. It is right underneath the area in the hallway where there used to be a floor furnace, and they basically just filled that in with a metal covering and the air intake runs from there. 

I would also be concerned about it falling if they don't secure it properly. That may sound strange, but I have seen some pretty sketchy installs online (machine hanging by a lot of duct fabric all over the place, for instance). I don't know how many hundreds of pounds a unit like this typically weighs, but it also makes me wonder if it will have any bowing/buckling effect on the floors above. This is a 1950 house, but the floors and the joists below seem to be in pretty decent shape. Doubtful that any of that would be an issue, because it can't possibly weigh _that_ much. I'd guess maybe 300-400 pounds at most, and that may be overkill. I just like to keep everything in mind.

Where the furnace is at now, the current 40 gallon or so water heater is maybe 2 feet back and half of a roof to the right, close to the back corner of the hole. Now, that water heater is likely going to be the first thing to go and will be changed out for a gas on-demand and relocated outside.

I'm not exactly sure where they should hang the system. I mean, it could stay where it is at and vent where it is currently venting. That would be fine. I'm just not sure which way they should extend the system. The air handler/intake and probably some other parts would need to be added on one side or the other. If they extended it horizontally towards the back of the hole (in the direction of the water heater), part of it would still be hanging from the joists and right over the tight crawlspace area that extends past the hole. It may extend into that space by feet, actually. If it is extended the opposite way (towards the sump), the pipe for the sump runs that way and that's also where the new sump basin and pumps will be placed when the hole is filled in with crushed gravel and such. That would be right in my way when I went to put the basin, pumps, etc., in.  Granted, it will be elevated and would be on the far side of the hole, so it may not be that bad.

Any advice? Would that be okay for part of it to hang over the crawlspace area and part over the hole or should I have them run it the length of the hole?


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## buffalo (Feb 7, 2016)

You can hang that thing anywhere it fits. As long as you know where you don't want it , let the contractor know. He will go from there and a range it for the least amount of work. Vibration from hanging it , I doubt it . But I would use somthing . When I set them on the floor I use cork pads with rubber on both ends , you could hang a floor of sorts with say plywood and use them  . You can buy spring isolators that fit all thread and then you would have no worries at all , I'm hanging 7 like this at my job now. 

  Weight , I'd guess 150 lbs total. You probably weigh more.


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## jmr106 (Feb 8, 2016)

I'm  going to try to have them hang approximately where it is now, but maybe a bit  over that back side wall if they can. Theoretically so that the filter  would be facing the side where the crawlspace door is. Plus, so that it wouldn't take up all of the room over the hole.


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