# I need some help and advice really quick!



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

Man oh man, where to start on this story. First of all, I know I have foundation problems, second of all I really suspect I have framing problems, and thirdly, I live in a condo and I am dealing with the HOA who is trying to cheap fix the problem which I am terrified is going to create a problem for me!

On to the story and questions.

We live on the bottom floor of a three floor condominium building. In 2010 we notice we have water damage, damage is obviously from water coming in from the outside wall. HOA said it was our responsibility to fix it. Hired a company that removed the Sheetrock, insulation, carpet and padding. They used a little moisture detecting thing and identified an area under the window as the place of highest moisture. There was a small crack in the foundation, and the company we hired said there is a foundation problem. We told the HOA, HHOA said the company could not touch the foundation, and that the HOA would fix the problem. HOA then dug up the window well, added some gravel, and said problem solved. The company we hired treated the wood, put in insulation, sheet rocked, taped, mudded the wall, laid new pad and carpet, and said see you in a few years, problem isn't fixed.

Oct. 6, 2014, come back from Disneyland trip. When we walk in the home we smell a wet, mildews smell. Discover more water damage. Call the HOA. There construction vendor comes up and rips up carpet, removes the same Sheetrock, removes the same insulation, and identifies a gap that is between the foundation and window frame, runs the entire length of the window frame, and is between 1/8" and 1/2". They fill it with caulk to try to fix the leak and say it has been leaking for years. They put a hose on the window and it looked like Niagara Falls.

Miscommunication happened, as well as the HOA. when they put water on the window Niagar Falls again. Owner of the company comes out, finds a hole near the corner of the window. Fills the hole with caulk, and tests it a few days later, still leaks. He then found the hole runs right through the foundation, and that there is a big hole on the outside as well. So the hole runs right through the foundation. He applied caulk to the outside, we are testing it today.

My question is, after a long story, can you repair a big hole that runs through the foundation with caulk? The guy said the hole is responsible for the crack, which is in the foundation in the middle of the window, is from this hole. Can calking that hole fix the hole in the foundation?

Also, with at least 4 years of water leaking and running all over the place, could their be water damage to the framing? I mean the lumber by the holde was drenched like a sponge. I was pressing on it and squeezing water out of it. I don't think caulking fixes the hole, and we want to sell the condo and I can not in good conscience tell a potential buyer the HOA has fixed the water leak problem with the foundation.

I have attached some photos. There are a couple of the hole from the inside of the wall. I took one of the wood at the hole and one with drier wood in the same area. I also show the wall and the crack, the contractor guy said it isn't moisture even though it looks completely different today. I also included some pictures of the gap, including one were the window frame, I believe it is pressure treated wood, looks like it has water damage and is rotting.


----------



## oldognewtrick (Dec 4, 2014)

Can you post some pictures of the area?


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

Hole on inside wall


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

Hole from inside wall showing outer treated wood


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

Crack in the foundation under the middle of the window


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

Close up of the same crack


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 4, 2014)

I will try to post pictures from the outside as soon as I am able. We have been displaced and don't go to the house much. I will go get an external picture though.


----------



## joecaption (Dec 4, 2014)

Caulking is less then useless to fix this. Now it all needs to come out and may even prevent the proper fix from working. Most if not all needed to be fixed outside not inside.
Need some pictures of the outside area.
Need to prevent the water from even getting to that area on the outside.


----------



## nealtw (Dec 4, 2014)

It is time to start digging, this is an outside repair.


----------



## slownsteady (Dec 4, 2014)

Mcclete22 said:


> I will try to post pictures from the outside as soon as I am able. We have been displaced and don't go to the house much. I will go get an external picture though.



Can we assume that you are displaced while this is being repaired? In that case, I would be there as often as possible (or even more) to watch how they fix it. Make sure it's done to your satisfaction, and bring a camera, so they can't argue with you later.


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

So I want to clarify a few things.

1- yes we have been displaced. In fact we have been displaced from our home since Oct. 08, 2014. It doesn't do much good for me to be there as I have absolutely zero say in what takes place. Because we live in a condominium, the HOA has all say with what is done to everything from the outside into the unfinished wall. I only own the space from the paint in. And the construction vendor requires an appointment time to come out and deal with this. I have to call and see when the company has an open schedule. The construction vendor said he believes it is fixed and told me that they needed to Sheetrock the wall, and I only stopped that by telling him my lawyer said not to let them do that, and that there is possible litigation because the HOA has told us we are responsible to pay for the damage until their insurance deductible, which is $10,000 is met. We are disputing that since: a- the leak occurred before, b- we fought them about their gravel solution and told them there was a bigger/ foundation problem, c- they would not let the company we hired in 2010 fix the issue, and d- their failure to correctly fix the problem in 2010 is the reason we have flooded and gotten water damage in 2014. The HOA can make me give access to them to repair everything to the unfinished wall.

2- the construction vendor has put a bunch of caulk in the hole on the outside of the wall. He just put a bunch of caulk in and atoms the hole. Today he poured five 5 gallon buckets of water on the area. Since we didn't see a leak, he said problem is over. He also said that crack is fine and that the discoloration around the crack is not moisture.

3- I personally think they need to pull the wood up and check for water damage to the wood. I think the wood has been soaked with water and is rotting.

4- the hole on the outside is above ground. It is less than a foot above ground, but it it is above ground. I want to say less than 6" above ground. I am going out to take more pictures tomorrow and will post the outside pictures tomorrow.

Like I said, I will get over to the house and get pictures of the outside, but if I can describe it, it looks similar to the hole on the inside with a bunch of caulk in and around it.

FYI, if you or anyone you know is thinking of getting a condo with an HOA, feel free to relay my story. It is simply criminal with what they are doing.


----------



## nealtw (Dec 5, 2014)

So I want to clarify a few things.
The handyman is not a contractor, he is a hack that has no idea of what he is doing or he is doing what someone is telling him to do and he dos't care.
Hire yourself an engineer to look at this and have him write a report on what should be done and read your paperwork on who is responsible for the outside envalope of the building.
It might be cheaper for just to have it fixed yourself than wait and fight about it. But it should be done with an engineer because good contractors may be hard to come by where you are.


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

Sorry if I said contractor. The guy owns a construction company, and it is the owner of the company who caulked up the hole on the outside wall.

And as far as I have read, the HOA is responsible for the outside. Everything from the unfinished wall to the outside is the responsibility of the HOA. That is why this guy caulked, looked for some leaks after the buckets of wAter and said it was all fixed. I know the HOA is doing a cheap fix and slapping a band-aid on a more serious problem


----------



## nunyabiz1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Neal is correct.
Hire someone with a working knowledge of this type of thing.
From what little I can tell from pictures it would seem to me that forcing in under pressure a thin hydraulic cement would be the best choice to just seal up a hole like that.
Of course the caulking will now have to be removed or it will prevent any good sealing and adhesion.

We have a HOA at our Townhouse but they are actually pretty good to deal with fortunately.


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

nealtw said:


> So I want to clarify a few things.
> The handyman is not a contractor, he is a hack that has no idea of what he is doing or he is doing what someone is telling him to do and he dos't care.
> Hire yourself an engineer to look at this and have him write a report on what should be done and read your paperwork on who is responsible for the outside envalope of the building.
> It might be cheaper for just to have it fixed yourself than wait and fight about it. But it should be done with an engineer because good contractors may be hard to come by where you are.



That's the big problem. I can't hire anyone to do anything with the outside foundation because that is the HOA's "property" and they are responsible. 

In 2010 when we had a flood and water damage, the company we hired wanted to dig and address the issue and the HOA put a stop to it. They told us that the company we hired couldn't touch anything dealing with foundation. The HOA said they could Sheetrock the wall, which the company did.


----------



## inspectorD (Dec 5, 2014)

Ask the HOA if it will be easier to fix the issue you have...or will the lawyers costs that they have to pay to defend the whole complex is best for the developement. Sounds like you need to just get a meeting called, and let the rest of the Building owners to know what is going on. With a professional engineers report. Not a contractor's.
I deal with these issues regularly, and they are never easy, or cut and dry. YOU need to do the work to educate the masses... and get the information out..and threaten with Liability if need be. 
The money angle almost always works... where is it best put to use...never in the Lawyers pocket. ;-)


----------



## nealtw (Dec 5, 2014)

Mcclete22 said:


> That's the big problem. I can't hire anyone to do anything with the outside foundation because that is the HOA's "property" and they are responsible.
> 
> In 2010 when we had a flood and water damage, the company we hired wanted to dig and address the issue and the HOA put a stop to it. They told us that the company we hired couldn't touch anything dealing with foundation. The HOA said they could Sheetrock the wall, which the company did.



I would still have an expert who can write a report that can be used in court look at it. A couple well worded leagle letters should get things moving along.

You are dealing with people that have no idea on how this stuff works, the thought of court action should wake them up. Right now you place as a zero value and they are resposible for that and the cost that go along with that.


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

Outside view showing surrounding area and the caulked hole.


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

Eye level view of caulking and area


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 5, 2014)

Close up of the caulking job and the size of the area that was caulked. The construction vendor also ran caulk along the bottom of the widow ledge.


----------



## nealtw (Dec 5, 2014)

Stucco or parging hide any real problems with the foundation. The window likely and mmost often leak as a result of poor flashing above it. Is there a drain in that window well or does it fill with water?


----------



## Mcclete22 (Dec 6, 2014)

So far as I know that's what to 2010 "gravel" fix was. An attempt to improve drainage in the window well. But aside from the dirt and gravel, no there not any kind of drain.

That's what I think the HOA was trying to improve by digging a little and adding more gravel.

The window well doesn't fill considerably with water, but puddles do form quickly. I have never seen more than I'd say a 1/4-1/2" of water puddled up, and even that was after a hard fast rainstorm. Mostly separate puddles form.


----------



## nealtw (Dec 8, 2014)

Well adding more gravel wouldn't help if the water does not drain away from the building and we don't know how much water is getting behind the stucco or how the window was installed.


----------



## frodo (Dec 12, 2014)

oh man,,, documentation,  pictures.  i would go so far as hireing a home inspector  $200.---$400.   for a inspection and recomendation

caulk is useless,  it is a cosmetic thing ONLY.  if anyone says other wise,  they do not know aything

the outside of the building needs to have the siding, framing removed and redone.  while it is opened up

an inspection of the foundation should be done.

digging a hole, filling with gravel is about as good as caulk

a hole needs to be dug to BEDROCK,  then hole should be filled with concrete WITH rebar.  to stabalise te corner

call a foundation company to have them give you an estimatement of what needs to be done

also,,since you have been unable to enjoy your home.  the hoa needs to reimburse  all your living expenses

sounds like its time to call shyster,shyster, and goldstein   or the other law firm  dowe cheatum and how


----------



## frodo (Dec 12, 2014)

a more graphic answer to your poll


----------



## AWD_GS (Jan 22, 2015)

you can only caulk up to a certain size width.  all caulks have data that verifies what it can work with whether its a Tremco, Dow, etc...

Have you looked into Drylok?  http://www.drylok.com/


----------



## schlich (Jan 25, 2015)

the only way to fix this is to pull the window and reseal the area but the crack needs to be fixed first. drylok will not fix this hell i have not found any thing it will fix. back on point 
there are several ways to fix this but as you said its the hoa problem get an engineer to wright a report remember the only thing the will understand is someone with a degree and a blood sucker. ps home inspectors will tell you to get a professional if there worth any thing so spend your money wisely


----------



## Mcclete22 (Feb 5, 2015)

Our lawyer told us to hire the ECR company we hired in 2010. ECR was the company the HOA told they couldn't touch the outside. He found a lot of problems, dome of which never even occured to me. He found what looks like a dryer cutout with not cover that has water damage, that the entire window, including the framing around it needs to be removed and replaced, he said that the bottom frame of the window has dry rot and needs to be removed to further look at the top of the foundation to see if there if unseen damage to the foundation, and that the outside landscaping needs to be excavated to 10" below the footings so we can see what the outside of the foundation looks like. 

He noted several cracks on the inside and said with the damage on the inside that they need to see the outside because damage on the inside usually indicates worse damage outside.

He looked at the massive caulking job and said it was a joke and said what they have done would not fix the problem, but would slow it down and hide it for 4-5 years and then things would be like they are now.

He also said they needed to dig down 10" below the footings so they could ensure the footing is true.

The HOA is still fighting us on repairing the problem and their attorney's ard not responding to our attorney's emails and calls. I know they are stalling to make it cost us more hoping we will drop everything. I hate our HOA, and aparently in the state of Utah, the laws are kind of vague and tend to lean toward the HOA. What a mess.


----------



## nealtw (Feb 5, 2015)

I think the contractor is correct in what he is saying. Sounds like you are in for a fight. Good luck.


----------

