# Hard lesson to learn



## SJNServices (May 8, 2010)

Last week I found a great helper. Hard worker, and a quick learner. Hell, he was even reliable...27 years old. But today he was making an easy cut on the table saw while I was inside the house I'm working on and though neither of us are sure exactly what happened, he ended up for the most part lopping off all of the fingers on his right hand. Great thing gone horribly wrong. Right now he's at the hospital trying to have his fingers put back together. So, a quick note to all those who have great helpers with great prospects: take a minute and go over some safety things with them. And ALWAYS respect your tools, because they won't respect you if you blink.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 9, 2010)

SJN:
      I know I speak for everyone at HRT when I say that we're all hoping your employee and friend will regain the full use of his right hand.  All you can do now is wait for things to heal as best they can.


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## Wuzzat? (May 9, 2010)

SJNServices said:


> Last week. . .


Without a guard, I did this in '94.  Strangely, it didn't hurt.  

Pointer finger severed 2/3rds of the way and the joint is now fused, middle finger cut halfway through.

It cost $50,000 and 9 months of physical therapy and it sort of works.  The 'brawny edema' doesn't go away.

I borrowed a 4" thk book on hand injuries.  You don't want to look at the pictures of 'degloving' injuries but now, with Google Images, you probably can.

In addition to other offensive conduct, CIGNA stiffed me out of $12k of this [they said I didn't get it preapproved] so I paid the surgeon $100/mon for years.

Now I keep a guard on and find other ways to make the cuts that are easily made without the guard.


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## oldognewtrick (May 9, 2010)

Steve, I really hate to hear this, tell him we hope for a full recovery. Let us know how he's doing.


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## inspectorD (May 9, 2010)

Yea, send our best, he will need it unfortunatly.

And a short story....and by no means do I blame anyone, accidents happen...thats why they are not called "planned on's".

I have been in the trades 25 years building 15000 sq ft homes to running cabinet shops... and still see dumb things done by ol' timers all the time. Folks do not realize when they are doing it that a youngster is lookin on....the old do as I say, not as I do never works.

When ever I hired a new person, they where trained on how to use the power tools right away, keep your hands away from the blades, use push sticks on tablesaws and never try to push the back of the piece down when it starts to lift or chatter behind the blade. (sounds like what your guy did to a tee, the board lifts and you push the back down grabbing the wood and pulling your fingers back toward you into the blade) And this is why I would get hurt more than my employees. I was teaching the saftey meetings , and ignoring myself ..because I was the boss of course. 
So ...that was my short lesson, hope it helps someone to stay safe.


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## kok328 (May 9, 2010)

Sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident.
For what it's worth, they do make table saws that will stop on a dime and prevent injury if you happen to get your finger close to the blade.  I saw one demonstrated on a hot dog and it didn't even make a nick in the hot dog.  Something to consider.  Very expensive but, I never put a price on safety.  Wish I could remember the manufacturer.


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## Wuzzat? (May 9, 2010)

inspectorD said:


> and never try to push the back of the piece down when it starts to lift


That's exactly how mine happened.  Just call me 'righty'.


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## SJNServices (May 9, 2010)

Quick update: Looks like he lost his ring finger and some bits of three others, but here's what floors me. What he was worried about is whether or not I would still let him help me. I told him with one hand he would be a better helper than most I've found in this area and as long as I've got work he's got a job.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 9, 2010)

kok328 said:


> Sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident.
> For what it's worth, they do make table saws that will stop on a dime and prevent injury if you happen to get your finger close to the blade.  I saw one demonstrated on a hot dog and it didn't even make a nick in the hot dog.  Something to consider.  Very expensive but, I never put a price on safety.  Wish I could remember the manufacturer.



It's called "SawStop".
The World

Unfortunately, they don't make a brake package you can retrofit to your existing saw.  You have to buy a "SawStop" saw before you get the brake package as a safety feature.  They make 3 different table saws now, and they're planning to offer a full line of woodworking tools, all of which would include a similar safety feature.

(I spent a few minutes on the web site, and the way the brake package works is similar to the way a fuse works.  There's a spring mounted aluminum block that is held out of the way of the saw's teeth by a thin wire.  A voltage is applied to the saw blade and there's electronics that monitor that voltage.  If anything that's conductive comes into contact with the blade, the current that flows into that conductive body will cause a voltage drop in the blade.  If the system detects such a voltage drop, it sends a large current through the thin metal wire mentioned earlier.  That wire burns out and the spring loaded aluminum block is pushed into the path of the blade teeth, stopping the blade almost immediately.  It costs $70 to replace the brake package, and it can only be used once.
       And, if you need to cut conductive materials, like wet wood, you can turn on the "bypass" feature, which basically just deactivates the large current that would otherwise burn out the thin metal wire to activate the brake.  The monitoring system in the saw tells you if the brake would have been activated by cutting the conductive material so you know whether or not you need to turn off the safety feature or not.)


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## Wuzzat? (May 9, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> It's called "SawStop".
> The World


The major manuf's were not the least bit interested in this thing.


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## oldognewtrick (May 9, 2010)

SJNServices said:


> Quick update: Looks like he lost his ring finger and some bits of three others, but here's what floors me. What he was worried about is whether or not I would still let him help me. I told him with one hand he would be a better helper than most I've found in this area and as long as I've got work he's got a job.



I hope you realize that statement speaks volumes of the character of SJN.


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## SJNServices (May 9, 2010)

Just looked at the Sawstop site. Now that is what I call a perfect marriage of current technologies. I truly hope this company goes far. Like my grandfather once said, "If you can nail together two things that have never been nailed together before you just might have something". I think they have something.


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## inspectorD (May 10, 2010)

And if the big gun Insurance co has their way, it will soon be on all saws.
Sawstop has been around for 10 years for the big saws. The costly part is everytime the saw trips, you have to change most of the parts.

www.woodshopnews.com just did a full article this month. However it is not on the website yet.

Hope for a full recovery...and good job on the keeping the job.:trophy:


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## TxBuilder (May 10, 2010)

Geez. This thread made me cringe. It's my fear of table saws that has kept me intact. I had friend of mine lose a finger in shop freshman year to a ban saw. I hope the kids alright. Good for you keeping him on. It's not easy finding a new job in this market.


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## reprosser (May 11, 2010)

inspectorD said:


> Sawstop has been around for 10 years for the big saws. The costly part is everytime the saw trips, you have to change most of the parts.



I have a Sawstop. If it trips, you replace the brake cartridge (~$65), and probably the blade (unless you get it repaired). Well worth the cost of my fingers. You can also test material before cutting to reduce accidental trips. I have not seen reports of lots of accidental trips, so I assume they are not very common.

The Sawstop is expensive compared to a cheap contractor saw, but it holds it's on (even without the brake technology) in the cabinet saw market.:




Wuzzat? said:


> The major manuf's were not the least bit interested in this thing.



Someone just got awarded 1.5 Million in a lawsuit against Ryobi because they did not have the "Sawstop" technology incorporated into their saw. (Even though the person was operating the saw with all the safety features removed  - but that is a different discussion) He lost the use of some fingers because of the accident.


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## TxBuilder (May 11, 2010)

I don't understand how some ones finger could be worth 1.5 million dollars. Do you have a link to the article reprosser?


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## reprosser (May 11, 2010)

Here is one link, but there are others on Google.

Popular Woodworking - SawStop Safety System Saga Steams Forward

Be careful of all the "facts" that are posted on comments about the case, sawstop, the inventor, etc. Lots of emotion is being posted and all the facts are not in yet (as far as I know).


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## adviceman298 (May 11, 2010)

Thats terrible. I hope he recovers and that it doesn't ruin anything he has going in life. My prayers are with him.


SJNServices said:


> Last week I found a great helper. Hard worker, and a quick learner. Hell, he was even reliable...27 years old. But today he was making an easy cut on the table saw while I was inside the house I'm working on and though neither of us are sure exactly what happened, he ended up for the most part lopping off all of the fingers on his right hand. Great thing gone horribly wrong. Right now he's at the hospital trying to have his fingers put back together. So, a quick note to all those who have great helpers with great prospects: take a minute and go over some safety things with them. And ALWAYS respect your tools, because they won't respect you if you blink.


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## frozenstar (May 12, 2010)

Sorry to hear about that story...  And thanks for reminding us this kind of situation.


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## Wuzzat? (May 12, 2010)

TxBuilder said:


> I don't understand how some ones finger could be worth 1.5 million dollars. Do you have a link to the article reprosser?


Car companies value a person's life at $200K 
CNN - The 'Ivey memo' - September 10, 1999
and others, like the 911 fund and the EPA, have gone up to ~$7M.  
You already know what my hand surgery cost.  Pain and suffering has a value but the only thing I had was about one day of severe depression.


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## SJNServices (May 12, 2010)

Quick update: Brandon (now Nine-Fingers) says "At least I'll have my thumb, I'll still be able to point, tell people f#%$ you and pick my nose with my little finger." Man, you just gotta love this kid.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 12, 2010)

As long as he didn't lose the thumb on his injured hand, and he still has three fingers across from his thumb, he should be able to function well.  He'll still have a strong grasp, and be able to twist and turn things.

Maybe tell him he's still on the very cutting edge of primate evolution cuz he still has a thumb opposite his working fingers, enabling him to grasp simple stone tools, and in the grand scheme of things that's of enormous importance.


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## reprosser (May 12, 2010)

SJNServices said:


> Quick update: Brandon (now Nine-Fingers) says "At least I'll have my thumb, I'll still be able to point, tell people f#%$ you and pick my nose with my little finger." Man, you just gotta love this kid.



I don't think I would be handling it that well. Great Kid.


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## handyguys (May 12, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your helper.
A few things about table saws in particular and power tools in general.
1) accidents can be avoided with proper technique. Stay alert and learn what is a safe cut and what isn't. 
2) Table saws must be aligned correctly. Check the manual that came with it for instructions for your saw. One key thing is the fence to blade alignment. If the blade and fence are not aligned you can pinch your workpiece which can cause dangerous kickback.
3) Never crosscut something using a miter gauge in conjunction with the fence. 
4) Use blade guards when possible
5) Use common sense
6) Don't work when distracted, angry, exhausted or frustrated.
7) Don't rush, think about every cut you make. 
8) RTFM - Read the fine manual. 

Just a few tips.

Quick story - I got my first real cabinet saw. It was a huge 600lb, 220v, 3HP beast. I was anxious to try it out. I wired it up, installed the blade and made a few test cuts. I ignored my 1,2,5,7 and 8 above. My test cuts went fine. I needed to make some brackets for a valance. I cross cut to length and used the fence to set my measurement (BAD BAD BAD). well, my piece started to wobble trapped between the blade and fence and then shot out and hit me in the gut. It ripped a hole in my t-shirt and left a bloody welt. The other half (the piece broke in half) hit the shop wall 12 feet behind me and left divot in the drywall. Needless to say I read the manual, learned what is a safe cut and what isn't and aligned my say correctly. I could have been hurt much worse.


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## TxBuilder (May 12, 2010)

I've done that, luckily it was just a sliver that nailed me but it still stung.


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## Wuzzat? (May 12, 2010)

handyguys said:


> and then shot out and hit me in the gut. It ripped a hole in my t-shirt and left a bloody welt. The other half (the piece broke in half) hit the shop wall 12 feet behind me and left divot in the drywall.


In principle, the entire rotational kinetic energy of the blade can be transferred to the workpiece.

A 45 cal. slug, a fatal dose of radiation and a handshake all have the energy, about 45 ft-lbs.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 12, 2010)

> A 45 cal. slug, a fatal dose of radiation and a handshake all have the energy, about 45 ft-lbs.









A 45 caliber bullet will tear a hole in your skin, penetrate a few inches of flesh and maybe break a bone or two along the way.  You can't make such a lasting impression on anyone with just a handshake.

Although I've never experienced one first hand, I expect a 45 caliber slug delivers a lot more punch than even a really firm handshake.  No one ever died from a really firm handshake.

And now for something completely different...






The George W. sexercise video.


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## TxBuilder (May 13, 2010)

Nestor, I think the delivery of force per square inch determines the severity of the impact. I could be wrong, I was once in the past.


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## oldognewtrick (May 13, 2010)

Wuzzat? said:


> In principle, the entire rotational kinetic energy of the blade can be transferred to the workpiece.
> 
> A 45 cal. slug, a fatal dose of radiation and a handshake all have the energy, about 45 ft-lbs.



A .45 ACP. 165 grain Federal Premium travels at 1060 ft per second and has 412 ft pounds of energy. This is a pretty slow bullet but packs a lot of energy.


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## handyguys (May 14, 2010)

I was doing some work on the table saw last night and I couldn't stop thinking about this thread.


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## Diyassistant (May 14, 2010)

Measure twice. Cut once


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## Rustedbird (May 18, 2010)

I saw the "saw stop" too. If anything, it or something like should be required by law.


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 19, 2010)

Rustedbird said:


> I saw the "saw stop" too. If anything, it or something like should be required by law.



I agree.  In a perfect world, every table saw would have to have one of these devices before it could be operated.

But, the world isn't perfect and Lassie kills chickens.

If you made a Saw Stop mandatory, then you'd have people setting them off intentionally.  Maybe it would be just a dare, or maybe to cause a work slowdown in the shop.  Maybe someone just didn't feel like working that day.  Who knows...  I just know that in the real world, good things often come wrapped in the potential for abuse, so making things MANDATORY can create huge problems.

I think if insurance companies would lower premiums for shops that had safer equipment, that would provide a financial impetus to improving safety.  But, that's not happening.  As it stands now, I doubt insurance agents even look at the equipment in a shop before quoting a premiums to a manufacturer.  But, money makes the world go round, and if there were an economic incentive to improve safety, then workplace safety would become a cool and sexy subject everywhere, not just in woodworking shops.


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## oldognewtrick (May 19, 2010)

Nestor_Kelebay said:


> But, the world isn't perfect and *Lassie kills chickens*.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> WHAT, say it isn't so....


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## Nestor_Kelebay (May 19, 2010)

Lassie





Michael Vick


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## oldognewtrick (May 27, 2010)

Steve, hows your helpers hand doing?


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## TxBuilder (Jun 2, 2010)

Bump I've been wondering about this too.


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## SJNServices (Jun 3, 2010)

Brandon is doing pretty good considering all that he is going through. His hand is now short the ring finger. The other three have a titanium rod due to bone missing. The thumb was also badly damaged. That is one LONG list of hurt. 

On day 14 after he got hurt he was back helping me (painting)! Just wanted to work.


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## TxBuilder (Jun 3, 2010)

I hear that. I think it's better to suffer while doing something then just sitting around the house. Tell him we all wish him well.


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## SJNServices (Jul 2, 2010)

Just got back from Brandon's and it looks like his hand may heal a little better than expected! They are pulling the rods out of his fingers so he may bend them again someday. I don't know about you, but just the thought of someone yanking a steel rod out of the end of my finger that goes through the bone all the way to the knuckle at the other end of the finger makes my skin crawl. Still in good spirits, but he's still in a lot of pain also. So let's all keep our @#%*# fingers out of places they shouldn't be!


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## TxBuilder (Jul 7, 2010)

Yeah I cringed a little when I read that. At least hes on the mend. I had a friend who was involved in a lawn accident when he was a kid and can't make a fist.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 7, 2010)

SJNServices said:


> just the thought of someone yanking a steel rod out of the end of my finger that goes through the bone all the way to the knuckle at the other end of the finger makes my skin crawl.


For me it felt like a slight elec. shock.


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 7, 2010)

SJNServices said:


> . So let's all keep our @#%*# fingers out of places they shouldn't be!



Steve, I got to admit that every time I've turned on a power tool since I've first read this thread I've thought of Brandons situation. Glad he's handling things well but sorry for his pain. I freaked out about a month ago when I had a splinter go through the end of my thumb all the way down to the knuckle and had to go to the ER to get it out...I just can't imangie pulling rods out ....I ummm, oh nevermind...


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## TxBuilder (Jul 8, 2010)

I cringed with you reading old/dog.


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