# 4x4 post bowing into gate



## soparklion11 (May 19, 2021)

The 4x4" PT Pine post for my fence patch bowed into the gate.   What is the best and easiest way to create space for the gate?  I'm not sure how to drill and bolt the post to the brick and I'd rather not village the envelope of my home.  I could pull the post and rotate it... if I turned it 180 deg I think that I would still need to secure it to the brick so that it wouldn't bow into the gate. You can see from the pic that it bowed 1 1/4" away from my house. 

I thought that I'd dried the post and that at 3/4" it was done warping. I was very wrong.


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## havasu (May 19, 2021)

Lag it into the brick. End of problem.


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## Flyover (May 19, 2021)

Are we sure the house hasn't tilted?


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## soparklion11 (May 19, 2021)

havasu said:


> Lag it into the brick. End of problem.


How do I best do that?  Drill through the 4x4, then drill through that hole and into a mortar joint?  Should I use an anchor in the wall?


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## havasu (May 19, 2021)

Yes, a wood bit thru the post, change to a masonry bit, and drill a 2" deep hole. Insert a lead anchor, then tighten an appropriate length lag bolt, with a galvanized washer between the head of the bolt and the wood fence post.


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## bud16415 (May 19, 2021)

How is the pole anchored in the ground?



It takes a lot of force to bend a 4x4, 1.25” I’m not so sure a single lag bolt into an expanding anchor will do it, into brick.



I take it the hinges are on the other side and this is just a filler post.

I would pull that post out unless it is poured into a big glob of concrete and set a new one. You could turn it like you were thinking but then the face would look funky.


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## ekrig (May 20, 2021)

Personally, I would just sand or plane it until the gate moves freely. Yes, it might look a bit weird but I think that would be ok for exterior work.

Folks are suggesting lag bolts, but I'm wondering how would one manage to put the lead anchor on the wall considering that the post is already installed?


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## oldognewtrick (May 20, 2021)

You could run a Tapcon screw through the post into the wall.



			https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tapcon-25-Pack-5-in-x-1-4-in-Concrete-Anchors/1000009402


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## Flyover (May 20, 2021)

ekrig said:


> Personally, I would just sand or plane it until the gate moves freely. Yes, it might look a bit weird but I think that would be ok for exterior work.
> 
> Folks are suggesting lag bolts, but I'm wondering how would one manage to put the lead anchor on the wall considering that the post is already installed?


Cut the top of the post off, just under the height at which the anchor is to be installed. Install the anchor. Re-attach the top of the post.

(This was a joke; but it wasn't that funny and now I can't figure out how to delete it.)


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## MrMiz (May 20, 2021)

I like EKrig's  solution as a "fix" and probably what I would do.

 If I was going to devise a permanent  solution here are the 2 options I would take:
Replace the post with a Ceder or redwood post. Set in Concrete that drains away.
Replace the post with a steel square post. Set in Concrete that drains away.

I don't see any hinges in your picture so it might be pretty easy to do those. If I have a choice now a days I always make my anchor posts with steel in concrete. All my PT posts have failed in the last 10 years for various reason. All my new steel posts are only 3 years old but I would have to hit them with a car to get them to fail. I also have several old steel post from the person that had my house before me. They had horses. Those posts are around 20 years old and they are still as solid as a rock, and had horses regularly leaning into them to scratch themselves.


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## soparklion11 (May 20, 2021)

oldognewtrick said:


> You could run a Tapcon screw through the post into the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tapcon-25-Pack-5-in-x-1-4-in-Concrete-Anchors/1000009402


But would that have enough force to correct the bend?


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## bud16415 (May 20, 2021)

Little off topic.



We had a fork truck driver we called them Jitneys for whatever reason was driving one of the biggest we had in the plant. To give you an idea we built locomotives and they would use them to pick up truck assemblies and the whole locomotive platform also the 16 cylinder engine these things were huge and heavy.



Well he came into the building pretty fast and caught the fork under a steel floor plate in the lay down area and bent this 1” plate up in the air about 3’. I guess he figured he was going to get canned so he backed up and tried rolling it back down with his weight. That he did and when he pulled off it popped back up. He ran over to his welder buddy and they rolled a big MIG machine over and he held it down and the welder stitched back to the plate next to it and it held. I always wanted to be there when someone standing in just the right place when that weld decided to let go. I kind of wondered how high they would go.

I think about this stuff whenever I’m bending a 4x4 a couple inches and holding it with a screw. My luck I would be waking thru the gate in the winter all icy carrying 6 bags of groceries when the thing would let go and scare the crap out of me.


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## ekrig (May 20, 2021)

For me, I think that the lesson to be had from this situation is that the lead anchor or tapcon screw would have been better if installed when the post was first set. This way it would give the post enough "encouragement" to dry the right way. In other words, it nip the problem before it occurred...


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## oldognewtrick (May 20, 2021)

soparklion11 said:


> But would that have enough force to correct the bend?


Stabilize it with a bolt or tapcon, or, pull it out and replace it with a new one. If you install a new one, secure it with the fastener of your choice.


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## Jeff Handy (May 21, 2021)

My strategy is, if you need one post, then buy three. 
If you need ten, then buy 15. 
Choose them carefully from the pile, and buy them at least two months early. 
Lay them flat, on a solid dry surface, roll them around onto a new side occasionally. 
Use the best, and return the rest. 
Some places like Menard’s sell posts that you can tell are dry, just by the weight and by eyeball.


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## Eddie_T (May 21, 2021)

I would probably try the lag but go slow. Initially tighten just enough to ease the pinch at the gate then over a period of weeks or months just tighten a bit at a time.  If that doesn't work then get a new post and lag it using the same holes in the mortar.


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## Flyover (May 22, 2021)

ekrig said:


> For me, I think that the lesson to be had from this situation is that the lead anchor or tapcon screw would have been better if installed when the post was first set. This way it would give the post enough "encouragement" to dry the right way. In other words, it nip the problem before it occurred...


Yeah, I like the idea that the anchor is there threatening the post, daring it to warp, and the post is literally scared straight.


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## Eddie_T (May 22, 2021)

Another thought if replacing the post, if lagged to the wall there would be no need to place the bottom in the ground.


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## soparklion11 (Jun 21, 2021)

UPDATE: The gap from the brick is now back to 3/4".  I didn't do a damn thing due to other issues and the fact that I don't use that gate too often...  What are the chances that it just stays there on its own?...


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## bud16415 (Jun 21, 2021)

soparklion11 said:


> UPDATE: The gap from the brick is now back to 3/4".  I didn't do a damn thing due to other issues and the fact that I don't use that gate too often...  What are the chances that it just stays there on its own?...


Slim to none and Slim just left town.


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## soparklion11 (Jun 21, 2021)

bud16415 said:


> Slim to none and Slim just left town.


I miss Slim. 

My buddy thinks that I should push it to where it is near vertical and then drill a hole down the center, and insert a metal pipe that wouldn't bend.  I think that drilling that far just wouldn't work.  What do you think?


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## Jeff Handy (Jun 21, 2021)

Drilling out the center will let water in, it will rot.
And the wood will still bend the rod, if it decides to get highly warped again.

Best bet is to put at least two long lag screws or better yet timber screws into the bricks, at the mortar joints.

If you drill the brick, they might crack.

I would use 1.5 inch long blue ribbed plastic anchors, they hold really well.

I used to be able to find them in two inch length, but not lately. 

Timber screws are what is used to screw 4x4’s to each other, like in a retaining wall.
Long, fairly thin, very strong, hex head to be driven by a drill or driver or socket wrench.

You can drill a hole through the wood slightly bigger than the plastic anchor, so you can tap the anchor through it.
Then drill through that hole with the correct size masonry bit, usually 5/16 inch for blue ribbed anchors.  
Drill a little deeper than two inches.
And blow out the dust from the hole afterwards.
Hole needs to be precise or plastic anchors won’t grab properly.

Then add a stainless or galv washer to keep the hex head from crushing into the drilled hole in the 4x4.


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## Jeff Handy (Jun 21, 2021)




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## bud16415 (Jun 21, 2021)

Cut the pole off and add 4" to the gate.


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## Jeff Handy (Jun 21, 2021)

bud16415 said:


> Cut the pole off and add 4" to the gate.


Hah, great idea!, I like it!


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## mabloodhound (Jun 22, 2021)

Like Eddie said on the previous page, this is just a filler and does not need to be in the ground.  Pull it out and just lag it or a new filler piece to the wall to fill the gap.


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## soparklion11 (Jun 22, 2021)

Jeff Handy said:


> View attachment 26055


I was thinking of something more substantial, like a redhead.  I've never used that type of anchor on concrete.


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## Jeff Handy (Jun 23, 2021)

I have used them before, for this exact purpose in that exact way.
Still holding up a fence section against a brick house, about ten years later.


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## zannej (Jun 24, 2021)

I'm still wondering what is under the ground. Sometimes posts are set with concrete and if it's put directly against the wood-- even pressure treated-- it can start to rot due to the moisture.

There is a method of installing a post without concrete. Something involving keying. Can't remember the exact term. The idea is that you dig the hole just big enough for the post, you set the post, and then you take a pressure treated board- 2x4, 2x6 or whatever and you put it up against the post at a very slight angle so that the bottom is closer to the post. You notch the ground so this board will fit very snugly and then pound the board in. This will lock the post in so it will be less likely to tip in the direction of the keyed part.


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## Jeff Handy (Jun 24, 2021)

I have set posts in crushed gravel. 
A mix of small crushed stone, the type used for gravel driveways. 
It goes all the way down to the size of sand and dust. 
Sometimes it is called road mix. 
You can also just buy bagged crushed stone and bagged stone dust, and mix it into the hole around the post. 
It compacts very well, but still drains enough to not rot the post the way concrete does. 
And you can jack the post out someday, if need be. 
You can tamp it firm with a heavy metal digging bar.


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## zannej (Jul 5, 2021)

That's a very good idea, Jeff.


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