# 220 wiring...



## watts (Jan 25, 2008)

I need help with wiring an outlet for my dryer.  I have an existing 220 recept. in a closet (used to be a kitchenette) that was used for a stove.  I would like to move this 220 to my laundry room to power my dryer. I have an electric dryer, house has gas hook ups.  the room is about 15 feet away.  but here's the problem.  the wire is ran on it's own circuit from the box, through the attic and down the wall.  I would like to run the new wire through the crawl, much easier, and up through the floor to the laundry room.  Can i "extend the wire" to the crawl, the run it over to the laundry room?  Or, is it better to just take the existing wire out and re run it to the laundry room.  what's the best way to do this?  Or should i just say "to heck with it" and buy a gas dryer?  I move in in 2 weeks, need to get this solved.  I won't need the 220 where it's at right now.  so i need to move it.  Any suggestions?


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## travelover (Jan 25, 2008)

I'll let the electricians speak to wiring / building code , but one consideration is that gas dryers are a lot cheaper to run. If you already own the electric dryer, I guess you'd want to keep it.


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## watts (Jan 25, 2008)

really?  I wouldn't mind getting one, for the sake of avoiding the wiring, especially if they're cheaper to run.  I didn't know that...


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## CraigFL (Jan 25, 2008)

travelover said:


> I'll let the electricians speak to wiring / building code , but one consideration is that gas dryers are a lot cheaper to run. If you already own the electric dryer, I guess you'd want to keep it.



This may not be true anymore. It used to be true because they made gas artificially cheap to get the business. Now, for example, in Florida the cost per equivalent energy unit is the same based on about 85% efficiency. They have upped the price so that gas appliances at an 85% efficiency cost about the same to operate as electric appliances (which are essentially 100% efficient). Of course if you have a higher efficiency unit, it may be slightly less expensive to run.

Check your local gas and electric prices to compare....


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## glennjanie (Jan 25, 2008)

Hello Watts:
Yes, you can extend the wire to the crawl space. Make your splice with wire nuts, inside a junction box, put a blank cover on it and add another box to mount the new receptacle in. It is possible to connect the new dryer with the 3 wires to the screw connections on the dryer. That way you save a box, a receptcale and dryer cord.
Glenn


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## speedy petey (Jan 25, 2008)

If this circuit is an old "ungrounded" 3-wire cable you CAN NOT extend it. A new circuit, OR an extended existing circuit MUST be a "4-wire" circuit.

Also, you cannot simply hard wire a dryer, unless of course it is sitting near the breaker panel. You need a form of disconnect. The most common by far is the old standby plug and receptacle setup.

How old is the house? Can you tell us exactly what the cable is?


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## travelover (Jan 25, 2008)

CraigFL said:


> This may not be true anymore. It used to be true because they made gas artificially cheap to get the business. Now, for example, in Florida the cost per equivalent energy unit is the same based on about 85% efficiency. They have upped the price so that gas appliances at an 85% efficiency cost about the same to operate as electric appliances (which are essentially 100% efficient). Of course if you have a higher efficiency unit, it may be slightly less expensive to run.
> 
> Check your local gas and electric prices to compare....



These web sites might help:

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/gas.html

http://www.jimcarson.com/2005/12/gas-versus-electric-dryer-ii/


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## watts (Jan 25, 2008)

The house was built in 1990, but the existing wiring was added in the late 90's.  I'm not sure on the type of wiring, although it's big and twisty looking?  Like i said, it was there to supply a stove.  So, i'll just get some of the same wiring, connect it with wire nuts, cover it with a box, run the new wire to the crawl and up to the laundry room and make my connections for the receptical.  would that be sufficient, provided the wiring is up to code?  Hopefully so and i'll have myself a weekend project....


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## speedy petey (Jan 25, 2008)

Just be careful making the splices. It is not an easy DIY thing to splice wire that big. 
Also the breaker would have to be changed to a two-pole 30.


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## handyman (Jan 29, 2008)

i agree with glennjamies reply & also speedy peteys of having a2-pole 30 breaker but i would imagine that there was already a 2-pole 30 or 40-amp breaker installed for the stove...hope this helps......handyman


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## triple D (Jan 30, 2008)

I dont know if you have completed your job yet, but it is important to know all info. about what you are dealing with before beginning. Is the wire copper or aluminum? If it is aluminum you must use a split bolt splice on each wire, pref. with deox or suitable corrosion inhibitor. If so you will notice these are bare connectors, they need to be wrapped in rubber splice tape after being tightened, very firmly. If it is copper wire nuts will suffice, big blues for #6 or #8 ga. wire, and red for 10 ga. Like noted by previous responders note if there is 4 wires in cable red,blk.,wht.,bare. If not, a sufficient ground can be achieved from a plumbing pipe if house is plumbed in copper. This would happen with a bond clamp and some #10 bare copper to the j-box location and romex 10-3 w/grnd from j-box to new dryer location. I am a brand new member tonight hope I have been a help to you.


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## speedy petey (Jan 30, 2008)

triple D said:


> If not, a sufficient ground can be achieved from a plumbing pipe if house is plumbed in copper. This would happen with a bond clamp and some #10 bare copper to the j-box location and romex 10-3 w/grnd from j-box to new dryer location.


WHOA! ABSOLUTELY NOT. 
You CANNOT simply take a "ground" from a water pipe. 
This is incorrect and can be very dangerous.
Except under some very specific circumstances a ground must be taken from the  panel. Which in many cases it's just as easy to run a new circuit. 

The house is from the 90's. It is highly likely that the cable is 10/3NM w/ground.


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## watts (Jan 30, 2008)

The cable is 10/3 copper, i'm positive it's copper, not positive on the gauge.  Although i do know it's on a double pole 30amp breaker.  This addition was just put in about 10 years ago.  Ground is intact, coming from the panel.  So, i'l just get some big wire nuts, and extend my wire over to the new location.  Taping all connections to be sure, and enclosing them in a box.  I haven't gotten to it yet, hopefully i'll get to it this weekend.  Wire is freakin expensive right now, so i'm gonna pull out some unused wire that was gonna be used elsewhere in the house by the previous owner.  It's the same wire, he was just gonna wire up another 220 somewhere for whatever reason.  I'm not, so i'm gonna use that wire to make my extension.

I really appreciate all the help i've gotten here.  This site is awesome for the DIY'er.  This certainly won't be my last post asking for help.  i've got a ton of these little projects to complete.  Half of which i dont' know exactly how to do.


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## triple D (Feb 1, 2008)

I didnt have any intention of misleading anyone or fabricating dangerous info!  I'm glad you have a 10-3 w/grnd. you are all set good luck... just an f.y.i.   n.e.c. 250.130 C-1  says you would be o.k., if conditions of the exceptions to 250.52 A-1 existed. wich means  if house was copper and properly bonded to panel, and your in the crawl space with continuous water pipe,from where it enters into house. Have a good one fellas...


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## speedy petey (Feb 1, 2008)

triple D said:


> just an f.y.i.   n.e.c. 250.130 C-1  says you would be o.k., if conditions of the exceptions to 250.52 A-1 existed. *wich means  if house was copper and properly bonded to panel, and your in the crawl space with continuous water pipe,from where it enters into house.*


True. Within the first FIVE FEET. This is what I meant when I said _"Except under some very specific circumstances"_.
Taking an equipment ground from any other point on the water piping system could be potentially very dangerous.

You said: _".., a sufficient ground can be achieved from a plumbing pipe if house is plumbed in copper."_
I just wanted to make sure nobody took that as a blanket statement of fact.


Thanks for the fyi. I am pretty clear on these code sections.


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## watts (Feb 18, 2008)

just so you guys know, i finally go around to doing this DIY and it worked perfect!  So thanks.  I just bought new 8ga 3 wire, which was a bit pricey, spliced, ran and connected new receptical.  works great!  hardest part was twisting that big a** wire together and drilling the hole to the crawl.  the old receptical sat right on top of a triple beam.....had to angle it and buy a long bore bit...but it worked...thanks again!


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