# need to remove this pesky soap holder



## gghrt000 (Jul 20, 2014)

There is an ugly soap holder made of probably ceramic and firmly planted to bathroom shower tiles. Part of it already was broken off and today I tried to take off whole thing. I tried with big flat screw + hammer through its seam between tiles but it wont chip away that easily. So I started working my way using big plier chipping away piece by piece from broken part since it has a hollowness. This is what is left in the pic below. On one of the Monday afternoon, I am going to do with a brute force when adjacent neighbours gone to work to see if i can get off the rest without breaking the tile. However I am wonderin if there is any easy to get it off. Any solvent or any agent that I can apply around the edge to make it softer may be? Thanks!


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 20, 2014)

Sorry, but I am giggling at your determination and use of manly brute force.  We have all been there, trying to use whatever tools we have at hand.

You need an angle grinder with a ceramic cutting disk (they are inexpensive and REALLY useful).  Just carefully cut the grout line so when you hit it you don't break the adjacent tiles.  Once this is done, use a masonry chisel (also cheap) to knock off the pieces.  

Some of the wall will come off and you will have to fill this before sealing the wall again.  Here is where your problem begins .... Pros use an elastomeric sealer (RedGard is my favorite) but it is really expensive for your situation.  It would be painted on the wallboard, allowed to cure, then you can re-tile as needed.

Not sure how else to fix something this small.  Go talk to the guys at a tile store.  Maybe you can beg for a small batch of RedGard from someone.  What you DO NOT want is a leak at this spot (I had to fix one once).  You can use regular thinset to apply the replacement tile.  Then grout per normal.

Clean and scrape the grout (use a grout saw - cheap) in the whole shower.  You probably caused cracks from all that pounding.  Re-grout as needed anyplace.  I would apply grout sealer to the whole shower at least two coats, letting it dry completely each time  ...

HAVE FUN


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 21, 2014)

Took a look at an alternative product call Hydro Barrier from Laticrete.  Might be less expensive, might not.  Uses a spreadable product and a fibre mesh.  Looks promising as an alternative to RedGard.

http://www.laticrete.com/dealers/products/waterproofing/productid/10.aspx


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## gghrt000 (Jul 21, 2014)

CallMeVilla said:


> Sorry, but I am giggling at your determination and use of manly brute force.  We have all been there, trying to use whatever tools we have at hand.
> 
> You need an angle grinder with a ceramic cutting disk (they are inexpensive and REALLY useful).  Just carefully cut the grout line so when you hit it you don't break the adjacent tiles.  Once this is done, use a masonry chisel (also cheap) to knock off the pieces.
> 
> ...




Thanks, it is really these little stuff that holds back after major work is done. Like they say devil is in the details. I am going to look at angle grinder.


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## CallMeVilla (Jul 21, 2014)

For the amount of work you do, an entry level grinder would be sufficient. (Ryobi)

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hardware-Power-Tools-Grinders-Angle-Grinders/N-5yc1vZc2fw

However, you should check Craigslist for used tools.  You can pick up a higher quality grinder for $30 that will last longer.  The key is how many AMPS of power.  More amps = more power!

Just remember to hold it very firmly and cut slowly so it doesn't take off on you.  You might practice cutting in the tile area that is already messed up.  Get a feel for the tool, then go about the business of your final cuts.  Try to cut only as deep as the tile ... DO NOT cut into the drywall behind the tile if you can avoid it.

ROCK 'N ROLL !


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## gghrt000 (Aug 10, 2014)

alright guys, finally took the whole thing out. But not with the angle. Got a cheap one from homedepo but that damn is hell of a noisy even with my motorcycle helmet on with all sparkles flying off. Plus it looks like it might take a better part of a day at best to work around whole thing. so I worked around with flatscrew driver with hammer to chip away and once made a hole in the center  pretty much wedge force to take all the pieces off. This is what is left now, first picture below. And this is a definitely a big day!

Next step is I am not going to need any soap tray so just want to plug with a 6x4 tile should use simple grout to seal the edges? what is behind left is hole look like I penetrated through a some kind of paper in the process (which I hope did not mess up something) but there is another layer of paper I can see which is intact.

Lastly I am going to put those smart tiles over those ceramic tiles, I am thinking to use to grout to level the entire tile area. Is it the way to go?  Thanks!


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## CallMeVilla (Aug 11, 2014)

Guess I should have come over to help you.  I always wear ear protectors and safety glasses.  Gloves are optional.  You cut inside the soap dish first, controlling the depth of the cut, cutting around the perimeter but inside the grout line.

Then, because you are now a certified angle grinder professional, you can work outward, trimming the tile away as you get closer and closer to the grout line.  If you are REALLY good, the last bit will fly off, leaving a clean edge.  Being very careful, you can even trim the residual face of the wall by gently moving side to side.  If you suck, well, you bash a hole through the greenboard and you are left with a crappy hole in the wall where water can get in someday  ...

We all make mistakes.  Not meaning to offend you.  

Have never used the "Smart Tile"  ( http://www.thesmarttiles.com/en_us/ )  Are you planning on retiling the entire shower or just the new and quite fashionable hole you created?    Actually, if you are going to a new look, maybe you should remove that entire horizontal course and install an accent band.  By the 2nd or 3rd tile, you ought to be able to do it without punching a hole in the greenboard!

Whatever ... Here is a video which gives you the basics for fixing a drywall hole.  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K37G2j0K8BA[/ame]

You have to do your best to square up that irregular hole BUT LEAVE A LIP FOR SCREWS.  Cut a piece of greenboard for the hole, and hope you have enough old drywall lip to hold the backing board.

Actually your biggest problem is waterproofing the hole.  There are elastomeric paint-on coverings (RedGard) which are great but not available in small quantities.  Do some checking because you really need to seal that patch before tiling.  Once you do that, you can tile with anything that fits your sense of interior design ... BUT make sure you apply grout sealer (multiple coats) to prevent water seeping into the new grout lines.


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## nealtw (Aug 11, 2014)

I watched the video on Smart Tile, they don't say what it is, sounds like vinyl. I think with your patch, you a year or two away from major repairs, with drywall behind the tile you already have strikes against the job. If you have access to the other sides of these walls digg in and inspect the back sides of the drywall near the plumbing. Any bad smell coming out of that hole?


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## gghrt000 (Aug 11, 2014)

nealtw said:


> I watched the video on Smart Tile, they don't say what it is, sounds like vinyl. I think with your patch, you a year or two away from major repairs, with drywall behind the tile you already have strikes against the job. If you have access to the other sides of these walls digg in and inspect the back sides of the drywall near the plumbing. Any bad smell coming out of that hole?



Hi Nealtw, There was not any smell coming out of. When you say patch what do you mean? What could go wrong? Can you elaborate on this one? I'd rather take it seriously as this is a multi-dwelling unit and last thing I want is damage in the building structure not to mention other residences. 

LAter evening I went to store and purchased glue+group combo and 2 counts of 2x6inch tiles as hole was exactly measuring 4x6. WIth grout/glue applied with the 2 tiles it fit exactly and looks pretty waterproof at least in visual inspection. 
I might be able to access it from otherwisde that is from balcony. 
Thanks,


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## gghrt000 (Aug 11, 2014)

CallMeVilla said:


> Guess I should have come over to help you.  I always wear ear protectors and safety glasses.  Gloves are optional.  You cut inside the soap dish first, controlling the depth of the cut, cutting around the perimeter but inside the grout line.
> 
> Then, because you are now a certified angle grinder professional, you can work outward, trimming the tile away as you get closer and closer to the grout line.  If you are REALLY good, the last bit will fly off, leaving a clean edge.  Being very careful, you can even trim the residual face of the wall by gently moving side to side.  If you suck, well, you bash a hole through the greenboard and you are left with a crappy hole in the wall where water can get in someday  ...
> 
> ...



Tile is just plastic peel-and-stick type, I already started putting but it appear I did not buy enough quantity less one of the package with 12 unit was ruined with water damage so job is halfway now. 
I am basically covering the entire tile area all around. Ordered another couple of packages to complete it.
I will put some pictures tonight.


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## nealtw (Aug 11, 2014)

The job that was done in the first place was not the best, drywall is not req behind show tile. The regard that Villa taked about should hace been between the tile and the backing and grout itself is not water proof. If you look closely you will see cracks in the grout especially in the corners. I would expect leaking in the corners and around the taps, if water gets behind the tile the drywall is food for mold. Then the stuff that you are applying over might be fine for backsplash but for shower I doubt. After all that is said,  you may be lucky and everything will be fine, but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## gghrt000 (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi nealtw, I think i partly got it now. YOu are saying the original installation of the soap tray was not good. 
Anyways did some research for really good one, looks like one has to install backerboard behind tiles for waterproof insulation. It looks like nor tiles nor grouts are waterproof. 
Looks ike part of the problem is I am not sure this wall has it. All I saw was one layer of paper which is torn apart and another brown color one still intact. I am pretty sure those are not drywalls. I am not sure there will be a drywall behind it I dont know know what is behind. I'd like to remove adjacent tiles and install the backerboard but if entire wall has no then it is not worth and leave it as it is for now.


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## nealtw (Aug 11, 2014)

If I look at your picture and compare it to Villas video. It looks the same to me. It looks to me that the brown paper is just paper backed insulation, if that is an outside wall, it would be expected.


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## gghrt000 (Aug 13, 2014)

ok, i guess i will have to live with the current tile patch and hope it wont happen. Sort of r.roulette. 
At least I solace myself by saying that i did not make it worse than it was. . Before tearing down the the original soap tray had a crack which means its follow interior was very well exposed to humidity and moisture. Here is the new pic now. As you can see I started laying the peel-n-stick tiles and looks much better than the plain white one. These are not real tiles, but turned out much better than what I expected. I guess I will wait to see how long these will last.


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## CallMeVilla (Aug 13, 2014)

Going to hold my breath ...  I hope you scrubbed the old tile surface to remove every last trace of soap scum and oil.  Never been a big fan of "peel-n-stick" ....


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## gghrt000 (Aug 18, 2014)

holding my breath too


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## gottodo1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Hey, can we get some pictures of the whole thing completed? Any update on leak/smells, of the mold variety that is.


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## gghrt000 (Aug 18, 2014)

i had run out of tiles while I was doing. I had used 2 of the packets which in the picture when I got onto last 3rd all of them were bad. So I ordered another set from online which should be coming soon. It looks great so far only question is how long it can last only time will tell.


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## slownsteady (Aug 18, 2014)

In the meantime (because eventually this stuff will fail), learn about wall repair and tiling (if you want that) so that in the least you will be able to understand and choose critically between contractors. Or, at best, DIY.


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## gghrt000 (Aug 18, 2014)

Yes, i do ack I did not take this bathroom job seriously as the other ones I did before. Still learning.. The fact that patching the hole with tile and grout and having it realize it is still not guaranteed to be a waterproof was quite a bit of a rude awakening.


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## gghrt000 (Aug 27, 2014)

gottodo1 said:


> Hey, can we get some pictures of the whole thing completed? Any update on leak/smells, of the mold variety that is.



Went to homedepot to see if they have additional. There was none. I asked store associates about these tiles and got informed that they seldom stock as demand is not that high and explained the reason which is pretty much in line with what folks posted here: those are pretty cheap item and not known for its reliability, tend to peel off. For my case, may be I will complete it and see how long it last and if it starts falling off, I will think about something better.


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## slownsteady (Aug 27, 2014)

Not that I'm encouraging you with this, but did you check online to see if they can be ordered from somewhere (not necessarily HD)?


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## gghrt000 (Aug 27, 2014)

i actually ordered online 6 of them with x6 in package. It was heavily discounted. However I had to return 3 of them as corners were crumbled and one of them flat out has already some liquid damage and was already peeled off in package.


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## gghrt000 (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello there guys finally put the last patches and this is how it looks l. I ll see whther ig ll start peeling off and if so when


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## oldognewtrick (Sep 15, 2014)

From middle Tennessee, it looks really nice.


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## nealtw (Sep 15, 2014)

But that one black square is an eyesore


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## gghrt000 (Sep 15, 2014)

yes that particular square one 

actually got a challenge question here. If water penetrates through the tile and grout which is a great concertn, would not be easily penetrating through other potential places like like through shower and tub linings those does not looks water/moisture proof either. Also there are other potential moiseture penetrating places like when I replaced the bathroom light there were big holes i in the wall too.


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## nealtw (Sep 15, 2014)

Liner are supposed to be water proof but grout has never been claimed to be waterproof.
I hope the light you are talking about is not subject to water like in the shower. Even the light in the ceiling over a shower must be moisture proof or shower rated. Any hole in wet area like bathroom should be repaired and sealed with paint as raw drywall is food for mold.


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## slownsteady (Sep 15, 2014)

Consider this whole project a temporary fix. Watch those areas for signs of trouble and prepare yourself to do it properly the next time. I suspect that it won't be long. In the meantime, go tile shopping


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## nealtw (Sep 15, 2014)

I have seen this used back in the 60s over plywood and it stude up quite well, for a few years. The problem here is where they overlap you stck them together and the uneven backing with tile and grout may add  problems.


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## gghrt000 (Sep 16, 2014)

yeah that is what I was thinking when I was working. There are definite grout lines between tiles and when I put it I can see there are always small openings left which kept me wondering what i should do with it. I even pondered about applying grout along the edges but I dont expect it to work well either.


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## gghrt000 (Feb 1, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Consider this whole project a temporary fix. Watch those areas for signs of trouble and prepare yourself to do it properly the next time. I suspect that it won't be long. In the meantime, go tile shopping



Long time away, came back to report what Nealth could have been predicting. Wanted to post an update: The bathroom job still OK visually, but unfortunately, starting last year, I had developed some minor skin issue (psoriasis like) and rashes around my back. I have been trying different treatments with with mostly no avail. So far I still consider lucky since it persists on small areas of my skin (around the back)

My doctor so far diagnosed it with "either 1. psoriasis or 2. environmental" factors. I have done pretty much everything could do for the "psoriasis" part and my body is muhc better than when it is initially bothering me but definitely still persist.

I am looking at possible bathroom mold growth as possible factor. Since I dont see visible mold (just minor, small blackened areas around the corner), looks like need to hire professional mold inspector to see behind the wall I did few years back. If that is causing problem, I think I am looking at major repairs the Nealth predicted. If that is case, I think may be will hire some pro-s to do the entire bathroom tile area re-done up to the standard as I have no longer time to do it myself. I am looking at what could be the potential cost involved on this type of repair.


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## nealtw (Feb 1, 2016)

I think I would have the air tested, you could mold anywhere in the house, like heat ducts.


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## slownsteady (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks for checking back in. It's always good to hear an update on a previous discussion. Sorry to hear about your skin problem, but i doubt that is caused by mold. If so, there would be many, many more people with skin problems. Hey! But I'm not a doctor and this isn't a medical forum........
Costs for a bathroom project are hard to estimate here because labor costs vary so much from area to area. And even with this whole thread, we could not guess at the scope of the work. You will need to get some estimates from local contractors. With those numbers in mind, and based on what they tell you, folks here may be able to help guide you in the right direction.


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## nealtw (Feb 1, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> Thanks for checking back in. It's always good to hear an update on a previous discussion. Sorry to hear about your skin problem, but i doubt that is caused by mold. If so, there would be many, many more people with skin problems. Hey! But I'm not a doctor and this isn't a medical forum........
> Costs for a bathroom project are hard to estimate here because labor costs vary so much from area to area. And even with this whole thread, we could not guess at the scope of the work. You will need to get some estimates from local contractors. With those numbers in mind, and based on what they tell you, folks here may be able to help guide you in the right direction.



http://www.mold-advisor.com/skin-rash.html


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## slownsteady (Feb 1, 2016)

well it's back to pre-med for me. lucky i didn't start my internship yet.


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## nealtw (Feb 1, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> well it's back to pre-med for me. lucky i didn't start my internship yet.



I suspect it is exposed to the air somewhere, not just locked in a wall.


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## gghrt000 (Feb 1, 2016)

i did some research while the skin problem and fungi overgrowth can definitely related by a mold, i think it is hard to relate and draw a clear line. more than 10 years ago, i lived in apartment where huge mildew were visible in the wall and i did not develop anything. in my new apt, i barely see any mold but this skin issue is very persistent. may be i got older and become more susceptible, or could be different types of mildew (there is a whole science in it), it is too many variables and moving targets. i am just looking at one possible variable in hoping to get rid of it.


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## nealtw (Feb 1, 2016)

Do you have AC, forced air or constant running fan ceiling fan.


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## gghrt000 (Feb 1, 2016)

nope, it is a basic 1990-built condo which used to be apartment. It has no moving part at all, no ceiling fun, no dehumidifier in the bathroom, or forced air except one A/C unit in one of the room only. All heaters are spatial, convection heater in each room. 
However I have store-bought small heater with fun and plus air filter/ventilation with fan (for summer month) and humidifier.

Whenever I take a bath during cold months, sometimes i close everything to stay warm till done and once done leave open both bathroom window and door in order for the humidity escape as quickly as possible, that could be trouble.


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## nealtw (Feb 1, 2016)

We before I smashed the tile out, Some of those walls are interior walls. From the other side of the wall you can cut inspection holes, save the pieces for easy repair.
I would want to get a look at the area where the soap dish was and if you can get to the end where the plumbing is , down below the tub so you can see any wetness there and a good look at the floor below the tub.


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