# Draining Hot Water Heater - Nothing comes out!



## thatguy188 (Feb 13, 2016)

Hey there!

So as a brand new homeowner, the first thing I'd like to do is go through a yearly checklist since Im not sure when or if certain things have been done in the past (House was built in 2011 so fairly new!)

What I am trying to do is drain the hot water heater. It's electric and I have drained a hot water heater before, but this one I just can't get to drain!

Here is what I've done so far:

Hook up water hose to drain valve, shut off main water supply, shut off W/H at Breaker Box, opened 2 hot faucets in the house, and opened drain valve.

Nothing came out.

Did some googling, and this time turned main water supply on, trying to "flush".

Still, nada.

Removed water hose, tried to open drain valve again. Nothing.

Opened Pressure Relief Valve and water came gushing out the outside of my home (its connected with a hose), opened drain valve again, still nothing, very very small trickle.

Then I saw only about taking a metal clothes hanger and shoving it into the drain valve to try and loosen any sediments. Problem is, I can't even get a metal hanger in there. The opening is very very narrow inside the drain valve (picture attached of drain valve).

Basically I've done tried everything I can think of to get the thing to drain, but it won't budge.

Does anyone here have any ideas/suggestions for me?

Thank You!


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## slownsteady (Feb 13, 2016)

I suppose it's possible that the drain valve is faulty. Did it offer any resistance when you turned the handle? Have you checked the hose? Does it have a nozzle on the end?


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## thatguy188 (Feb 13, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> I suppose it's possible that the drain valve is faulty. Did it offer any resistance when you turned the handle? Have you checked the hose? Does it have a nozzle on the end?



Yes there is definitely resistance when turning the drain valve. If I opened it about "half way", it very very VERY slowly trickles out. No the hose doesn't have an attachment on it. It's a very long hose so I was thinking maybe that's the issue so that's when I took it off completely, still nada.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 13, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> Yes there is definitely resistance when turning the drain valve. If I opened it about "half way", it very very VERY slowly trickles out. No the hose doesn't have an attachment on it. It's a very long hose so I was thinking maybe that's the issue so that's when I took it off completely, still nada.



With the heater cool and the hose connected and the valve closed, remove the bonnet nut and open the valve, however, continuing to turn the valve stem can result in removing it which can result in a flood if the calcium plugging the valve now, breaks loose.

If it does not and the water flow remains at a trickle, try inserting a screwdriver into the stem hole to break the calcium plug.

Once you break it loose, quickly insert the stem to mitigate the flood.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 13, 2016)

What about getting a male-male adapter, hooking a garden hose to the drain and back flushing with a couple faucets on down stream?


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## beachguy005 (Feb 13, 2016)

You could try removing the top heating element and using the hose to siphon out the tank.  You'll get some water out of it but most will be below it. Bleed off as much as you can from the relief valve.  Completely remove the drain valve and you'll be able to see what's causing the blockage.
I had an issue with mine which was slow.  Drained it then found about 2 inches of deposits on the bottom.  Used a poker, a shop vac and a modified hose to get most of it out,


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## slownsteady (Feb 13, 2016)

You mentioned turning the valve halfway; what happened when you turned it all the way?
Remember that it's not a faucet valve and that it requires several turns to fully open (you probably know that, but it can't hurt to mention)


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## KULTULZ (Feb 14, 2016)

oldognewtrick said:


> What about getting a male-male adapter, hooking a garden hose to the drain and back flushing with a couple faucets on down stream?


 
Most likely the bottom of the WH is filled with sediment and the small opening of the valve will not allow drainage.

You are going to have to douche and then upgrade the drain valve once emptied.


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## frodo (Feb 14, 2016)

..........................


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## bud16415 (Feb 14, 2016)

My advice is let a sleeping dog lie. 

I have never drained one. I never thought you get enough of what has built up in there out to make it worth the risk the problems it might cause.


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## thatguy188 (Feb 14, 2016)

slownsteady said:


> You mentioned turning the valve halfway; what happened when you turned it all the way?
> Remember that it's not a faucet valve and that it requires several turns to fully open (you probably know that, but it can't hurt to mention)



When I turn it halfway open, a very very light trickle comes out, when I open it fully it acts like its closed and nothing comes out.



Snoonyb said:


> With the heater cool and the hose connected and the valve closed, remove the bonnet nut and open the valve, however, continuing to turn the valve stem can result in removing it which can result in a flood if the calcium plugging the valve now, breaks loose.
> 
> If it does not and the water flow remains at a trickle, try inserting a screwdriver into the stem hole to break the calcium plug.
> 
> Once you break it loose, quickly insert the stem to mitigate the flood.



Which bonnet nut are you talking about? I've tried sticking a metal wire hanger in the valve opening to get in there to maybe break something lose, but that seems impossible as the valve itself is very narrow. I've attached a picture looking inside the drain valve. Is it normal to be so narrow?


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## KULTULZ (Feb 14, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> My advice is let a sleeping dog lie.
> 
> I have never drained one. I never thought you get enough of what has built up in there out to make it worth the risk the problems it might cause.


 
Let me ask you a question...  (I come in peace)

Depending on the sediment/hardness of the water and without proper filtration, the sediment will build to such a level as to possibly interfere with the bottom burner (a gas WH is completely negated once sediment is allowed to build up) and each time the dip tube introduces water, the sediment is stirred causing it to be drawn into the hot water distribution system possibly fouling pipes and fixtures.

Same thing with periodic testing of a TPRV, if it is fouled you won't know until you can inspect it while resting in the back yard or the neighbor's back yard.


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## kok328 (Feb 14, 2016)

Replace the manufacturers drain with a 3/4", full port ball valve. Problem solved.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 14, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> When I turn it halfway open, a very very light trickle comes out, when I open it fully it acts like its closed and nothing comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> Which bonnet nut are you talking about? I've tried sticking a metal wire hanger in the valve opening to get in there to maybe break something lose, but that seems impossible as the valve itself is very narrow. I've attached a picture looking inside the drain valve. Is it normal to be so narrow?



The bonnet nut, is the only nut in the picture. The shaft sticking out of the bonnet nut is the stem, and what you turn to open and close the valve.

When the stem is removed there is a straighter line into the calcium deposits which are obstructing the drain.

Another method in overcoming the hardened accumulation is to chuck a piece of a metal coat hanger into a cordless drill and employ it as a rheem. (yes I know it's a model)


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## mako1 (Feb 14, 2016)

Open the cold water valve on top of the water heater.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 14, 2016)

Now as a new homeowner, learn the proper terminology, you have a water heater, not a hot water heater. You heat cold water not hot..&#128527;

Now, I'd hook up the hose, let it drain and try replacing the valve. May take a while since you said its only a trickle.


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## thatguy188 (Feb 14, 2016)

I'm going to give that a shot  thanks for the suggestions!

And yeah I better get to learning the terminology, down here everyone does call it a hot water heater though, at least everyone I've ever met 

I'll remove the bonnet but and stem, while having my shop vac handy, haha. Running to lowes to get a better ball valve.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 14, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> I'm going to give that a shot  thanks for the suggestions!
> 
> And yeah I better get to learning the terminology, down here everyone does call it a hot water heater though, at least everyone I've ever met
> 
> I'll remove the bonnet but and stem, while having my shop vac handy, haha. Running to lowes to get a better ball valve.



TOWELS and wadders, as well.


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## oldognewtrick (Feb 14, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> TOWELS and wadders, as well.



As long as he has a 40 gallon shop vac he should be ok....&#128527;


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## slownsteady (Feb 14, 2016)

The basic plumbing tool.......a bucket.

you may have some success by exercising the valve a few times. You may hear some gritty sounds as sediment in the gate gets crunched. You should be replacing the valve anyway.


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## thatguy188 (Feb 14, 2016)

Thanks y'all! It's finally draining. I ended up having to take off the bonnet nut and unscrewing the stem completely. I was then able to stick a metal wire hanger in there. Water and clear/crystal like things started shooting out at me finally so I put the stem in again 1 turn and it's draining nicely now. Small leak at the stem because I have it very lose, but that's what my bucket/dust pan contraption is for. 

Also bought the items recommended earlier to replace that drain valve. 

Guess once it stops draining I'll flush it a couple more times with cold water and repeat the process. 

Thank y'all so much!


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## thatguy188 (Feb 14, 2016)

Here's what I am going to put on it after it's all said and done.


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## bud16415 (Feb 14, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> Let me ask you a question...  (I come in peace)
> 
> Depending on the sediment/hardness of the water and without proper filtration, the sediment will build to such a level as to possibly interfere with the bottom burner (a gas WH is completely negated once sediment is allowed to build up) and each time the dip tube introduces water, the sediment is stirred causing it to be drawn into the hot water distribution system possibly fouling pipes and fixtures.
> 
> Same thing with periodic testing of a TPRV, if it is fouled you won't know until you can inspect it while resting in the back yard or the neighbor's back yard.



If  your water has that much sediment or minerals you should have some filtration ahead of the tank. Who wants to drink or bathe in sediment. The minerals that build up in there are hard enough to clog his valve they will be hardened likewise all over inside the tank. If you go in there and violently back flush the tank to break all the stuff up if you even can what doesnt come out is now going to flow thru your pipes and plug things up. If your tank is new and you plan on stretching its life out by flushing every 6 months I would say go for it. Some people even do a back flush with vinegar. The house we bought had about a 5 year old tank that I was going to replace when I redid the plumbing but I gave it a try and it worked and had no leaks so I hooked it back up. No way would I flush that tank and loosen up what is stuck to the sides. 

The safety pressure valve is high up on the tank and designed to blow under the extreme pressure of an over heat, much different than the pressure of the tank draining. Removing the valve at the bottom is maybe easy on a new tank but when all locked in with the same stuff thats built up in the valve it could also snap off. Taking the valve apart and using tools to knock the buildup off you have to be careful to not mess up the seat or you will get a dripper. 

My whole thoughts are you really dont get enough out to make a difference unless its a sludge or mud in the tank thats in the water and that should be filtered out. Everyone I ever carried out of a basement was 3 times as heavy as the one I carried down.

Those are just my thoughts after the odds with tanks. Seems like most disagree.


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## slownsteady (Feb 14, 2016)

You can't really filter out dissolved calcium with any kind of whole house or inline faucet  filter. I think you would have to get into a professional quality softener setup with whatever extra filtration system they have for that. As Bud said, you could drain frequently, or settle for changing the heater every few years.

Now with everything stirred up, you should limit water use for a few hours to let the sediment settle back down. Then, you should remove the strainers from any faucets that have them and flush water through them.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 14, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> My whole thoughts are you really dont get enough out to make a difference unless its a sludge or mud in the tank thats in the water and that should be filtered out. Everyone I ever carried out of a basement was 3 times as heavy as the one I carried down.
> 
> Those are just my thoughts after the odds with tanks. Seems like most disagree.



While it is generally accepted, in theory and practice, that there is little gain from attempting to drain or remove the accumulations from the base of residential water heating appliances, of a capacity under 100gal., would it not be first beneficial to determine the setting of the temp. of the heating elements, the size of the family as well as the temperature of the water used and the distance from the appliance of the most remote faucet.

Mineral deposits are a direct result of the heat of the media they are transported in, water.

In practice, are adjustments going to be beneficial in extending the longevity of the appliance? Only the OP can be the judge of that.


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## bud16415 (Feb 14, 2016)

I&#8217;m surprised no one mentioned changing the anode rod as well.


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## thatguy188 (Feb 14, 2016)

Well I got it all back together. I flushed it out with drain valve removed and opening/closing the water inlet valve a couple of times (ok, more like 10 times) until nothing but nice clear water came out. Put the new thermal coupling with a nice ball valve on it, no leaks. Water is full again and it's been about an hour, and nice hot water is coming out of all faucets 

Thank you guys again for all your suggestions!!!


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## bud16415 (Feb 14, 2016)

good job.


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## Snoonyb (Feb 14, 2016)

bud16415 said:


> Im surprised no one mentioned changing the anode rod as well.



Do you suppose someone should suggest to the OP to check for grit in the hot water?


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## Snoonyb (Feb 14, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> Well I got it all back together. I flushed it out with drain valve removed and opening/closing the water inlet valve a couple of times (ok, more like 10 times) until nothing but nice clear water came out. Put the new thermal coupling with a nice ball valve on it, no leaks. Water is full again and it's been about an hour, and nice hot water is coming out of all faucets
> 
> Thank you guys again for all your suggestions!!!



And the price was right.


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## slownsteady (Feb 14, 2016)

Snoonyb said:


> Do you suppose someone should suggest to the OP to check for grit in the hot water?



Yes, I suppose someone should. And did.


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## KULTULZ (Feb 14, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> Here's what I am going to put on it after it's all said and done.


 
...sigh... Why do I always feel like the bad guy here... 

The nipples you purchased are heat trap nipples. They are for another usage (or thrown into the back yard). Take the one not used and see if there is a flap in there. It is directional flow and would interfere with your next service drain.

You need a PEX lined galvanized nipple.


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## KULTULZ (Feb 14, 2016)

Gentlemen,

The reason I showed the TPRV is the amount of corrosion (whether galvanic and/or acidic water - Ph) that can result from not servicing and a possible failure.

Yes, all water (IMO) whether municipal or well, should have at the least a sediment filter. You cannot trust either water source and they are subject to composition change on a daily basis.

If you do not want to service the WH on a regular basis and have the money for frequent replacements, there are hot outlet sediment filters available to slow the fouling of pipes and fixtures. And no, you cannot filter calcium (or magnesium), the water has to be treated.

H2O2 and UV treatment will make the system much more human friendly.


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## thatguy188 (Feb 16, 2016)

KULTULZ said:


> ...sigh... Why do I always feel like the bad guy here...
> 
> The nipples you purchased are heat trap nipples. They are for another usage (or thrown into the back yard). Take the one not used and see if there is a flap in there. It is directional flow and would interfere with your next service drain.
> 
> You need a PEX lined galvanized nipple.



Hmmmm, yeah there is a flap in there. Opens easily either way though. Thought that's what was posted/you have posted here?


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## Snoonyb (Feb 16, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> Hmmmm, yeah there is a flap in there. Opens easily either way though. Thought that's what was posted/you have posted here?



Dielectric nipples have been around, in different forms, for a number of years and are for the purpose of mitigating the corrosive reaction between dissimilar metals, PEX lined is the latest intonation.

I prefer 6" brass, but that's just me.


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## KULTULZ (Feb 17, 2016)

thatguy188 said:


> Hmmmm, yeah there is a flap in there. Opens easily either way though.
> 
> Thought that's what was posted/you have posted here?


 
Those are heat trap nipples and are meant for install at the cold water entry (supply) and hot water exit points on the water heater. The flapper may interfere with drainage next time around.

You simply need a PEX lined galvanized nipple or as mentioned a brass nipple to prevent any possible galvanic action (corrosion) between different metals.

It is an easy mistake to make, especially if this is your first rodeo. No biggie. 

Below is the ill I posted previously-


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## frodo (Mar 1, 2016)




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