# do I have 220 and how can I tap it best?



## coachgeo (Oct 4, 2013)

I am buying a home.  Former owner says that in 2003 during a remodel they brought in 220v to the house.  I have gotten a copy of Permit in 2003 that shows electrical but no detail.  How can I tell if this 220v statement is an accurate statement? 

If it is........ How can I tap out this and run to an RV plug outside?  The RV I would hook up is 220v in which is then divided into two legs of 110v.  One operates front of RV and the other the rear.

Keep in mind I'ld like to eventually run another 220v to a garage/barn for a welder.  Maybe also wire it's outlets and lights like the RV; two legs of 110v

If there is good threads on this already please put the way.  You can't search by 3 characters so a search for 220 does me no good


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## nealtw (Oct 4, 2013)

The main breaker on top in this pic is a double breaker, that should indicate 240 volts. The real questions are, the number on the main breaker is the amps and if you have enough to run what you want to add, as well as whether there is room in the box for four more breakers.


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## coachgeo (Oct 4, 2013)

here is my panel.  top single breaker says 200 on the throw switch

Could one leg of the 220 be tied off?.  the fellow was very adamant that they put in 220v even though the electrician kept telling him it was over kill...... he insisted on it anyway.


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## nealtw (Oct 4, 2013)

No you have 5 double breakers which are likely stove, dryer, hot water and some other stuff all are 220. The over kill that was talked about was the 200 amps. Two breakers side by side gives you 220, if it was 110 every other spot would be blank.


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## coachgeo (Oct 4, 2013)

nealtw said:


> No you have 5 double breakers which are likely stove, dryer, hot water and some other stuff all are 220. The over kill that was talked about was the 200 amps. Two breakers side by side gives you 220, if it was 110 every other spot would be blank.



ok....... so your saying it is 110 coming in with bukoodles of amperage?  

The five are Range, Hot Water, Base Board Heat x 2.., Dryer

If that is the case then there enough amps there to double breaker to run a 220 leg out to the *RV?  Garage?  Both?

Several of the baseboard heaters that are on double breaker (220) I'll be eliminating . Maybe just keep the one in the kitchen and bathroom for pipe freeze protection and remove the bedroom and living room.  Im installing a wood stove and also have 110v radiant heater to keep chill knocked off when Im not home. 

I live in OH and it snows 

RV would be lived in.  Probably LP heating.  Summer a Window AC.  Stove top is small electric 110 I think.


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## nealtw (Oct 5, 2013)

coachgeo said:


> ok....... so your saying it is 110 coming in with bukoodles of amperage?
> .


 220 volt with bukoodles of amperage.
Others here will know whether it will be enough for what you want, I think you should be fine but that's just my guess.


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## CallMeVilla (Oct 5, 2013)

You have 200 AMPS  ...  you can draw this as 110VAC or double that up to get 220VAC.  You didn't "add 220VAC"  ...  simple misunderstanding.  For modern homes, 200AMPS is not overkill at all.  My first house was 400AMPS  ...  don't ask.

While your panel has a lot of open bays, you need to check to see if you can wire a sub-panel for your welder.  My guess is YES  ... but I cannot read the pic clearly to see what you actually have happening.

You should run separate legs for 110VAC to your garage  ...  don't split the 220VAC line.


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## JoeD (Oct 5, 2013)

Don't go mixing the amps with the volts.
You have 240 volts at 200 amps. Every panel installed in house in the last 40 years is 240 volts. I think they stopped installing 120 volt only panels in the 1950s or 60s.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

JoeD said:


> Don't go mixing the amps with the volts.
> You have 240 volts at 200 amps. Every panel installed in house in the last 40 years is 240 volts. I think they stopped installing 120 volt only panels in the 1950s or 60s.


This home was built in 1953.  Appears to have been rewired and ton of other things in 2003 though.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanx but out of all the post thus far this one confuses me more than any of them.  Can you reword please?  Probably confusing cause of my ignorance.  For example..... two breakers total somehow to 220 appliance....... but you say its not by adding 110v+110v.  then last sentence says run two legs of 110v each........ but don't split a 220v.  Well it had to get split somehwere  orrr was it?  btw  The 220 welder plug would be in garage.  The 220 for the RV would be outside by the RV.



CallMeVilla said:


> You have 200 AMPS  ...  you can draw this as 110VAC or double that up to get 220VAC.  You didn't "add 220VAC"  ...  simple misunderstanding.  For modern homes, 200AMPS is not overkill at all.  My first house was 400AMPS  ...  don't ask.
> 
> While your panel has a lot of open bays, you need to check to see if you can wire a sub-panel for your welder.  My guess is YES  ... but I cannot read the pic clearly to see what you actually have happening.
> 
> You should run separate legs for 110VAC to your garage  ...  don't split the 220VAC line.


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## kok328 (Oct 5, 2013)

Please don't take this the wrong way but, your questions indicate a lack of electrical knowledge and you would be better off (safety wise) to hire an electrician.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

kok328 said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way but, your questions indicate a lack of electrical knowledge and you would be better off (safety wise) to hire an electrician.


 Have no intention to NOT hire an electrician on my time lines. (RV arrives in Jan.) Just like to understand what is going on instead of blindly letting someone do some work. 

If time lines were different..... since I have a brain that can still learn, I would doing it myself but only after batting it around in threads like this till adnausum finally brings me to a point that I understand fully to tackle the project.  With much appreciation to those who helped educate me to that point!!!!


*RV is actually a log cabin.  It is designed to be a Rental Unit in classy _High Dollar_ RV parks.  But since it is designed for an RV park it is set up to plug in just like an RV.  RV's these days have 220v (50amp?) plugs and I was told 110 of the incoming 220 powers front of the rig and the second 110 the rear of the rig.  Often done this way cause many RV's have one 110vAC unit in both front and rear.


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## JoeD (Oct 5, 2013)

The power coming into your house is three wires. Two hot wires and one neutral wire.
From either hot wire to the neutral you will measure 120 volts. Because of the way the hot wires get their power if you measure between the two hots you get 240 volts.
For devices that need 120 volts you install a single breaker and get 120 volts between the output of the breaker and the neutral wire.
If you have a device that needs 240 volts(dryer, stove, water heater, etc.) you install a double breaker that give two hot outputs which measure 240 between them.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

JoeD said:


> The power coming into your house is three wires. Two hot wires and one neutral wire.
> From either hot wire to the neutral you will measure 120 volts. Because of the way the hot wires get their power if you measure between the two hots you get 240 volts.
> For devices that need 120 volts you install a single breaker and get 120 volts between the output of the breaker and the neutral wire.
> If you have a device that needs 240 volts(dryer, stove, water heater, etc.) you install a double breaker that give two hot outputs which measure 240 between them.


That fills in the missing link which was fuelling my brain farts.  Makes ton more since now.

So is the odd numbers in the breaker box feed from one of the two hot powerlines and the evens the other thus allowing for connecting two neighbouring breakers together to once again have 220/240v to feed a device that requires that voltage?


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## nealtw (Oct 5, 2013)

Now we have the brain farts out of the way, thanks to Joe. The other questions that should be asked are. How far from the house will the RV be parked? Will a 200 amp sevice be enough to do this?
If the RV will be parked permenitly should he use the plug or should it be hard wired and should it be underground? If the RV will become a rental, should it have it's own supply with a meter?


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

nealtw said:


> Now we have the brain farts out of the way, thanks to Joe. The other questions that should be asked are. How far from the house will the RV be parked? Will a 200 amp sevice be enough to do this?
> If the RV will be parked permenitly should he use the plug or should it be hard wired and should it be underground? If the RV will become a rental, should it have it's own supply with a meter?




Yep and getting those answers is convoluted.  How far away is also dictated by sewer.  separate power....... that is also dictated by TAXES.  The more Install like it is a permanent thing direct wired and not "plugged in"........ the more my property taxes go up cause it becomes a fixed part of the property thus real property thus calculated into property taxes.  The more I install it like an RV which is personal property ...... that can be moved....... then its not taxed as part of the "real property" but instead personal property falling under a separate tax code that is little cheaper??? if I understand things correctly.

 I have an acre of property and not have yet decided location. So that being said...... information that would be helpfull would be...... "how far" away maximum from the breaker box at 200amp.  I would assume it would have to be properly buried line even if it was just going to a 220plug box on a knee high pole.  

Then again...... there is the future detached garage/barn with a future welder at 220v. (it would only get random use)  How far can that be away from the box too?  Course might be better off with a diesel powered welder??


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## nealtw (Oct 5, 2013)

I would think adding a barn will change the taxes so adding another meter there, taxes would not be a problem and then adding the RV plug to that, if you can't get it from the house.
Doubling the use of the septic system may be a bigger problem. It is likely sized for the one bedroom house and you already intend to have more than two people in the house.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

nealtw said:


> I would think adding a barn will change the taxes so adding another meter there, taxes would not be a problem and then adding the RV plug to that, if you can't get it from the house.
> Doubling the use of the septic system may be a bigger problem. It is likely sized for the one bedroom house and you already intend to have more than two people in the house.


Barn is probably 4 to 5 years away.  Cabin/RV is January 2014.  I HAVE to move it from where it sits in TX by Jan. 1.

Septic was redone also and I was told it was also oversized for future growth. I believe code requires all new sceptics installed to meet the standard of a "single FAMILY home" anyway. That is an issue I ran into in TX.

Doubling is not a good example..... its more like like adding a SMALL 3/4 bathroom to a house. The kitchen sink is tiny too. NOT a double sink..... just one tiny one like in an RV.  Cabin/RV living space is only 12x16 in size so it is more like a one person Microhome.

More than one in the house........ nah.  Would be nice but it will probably be just me with an occasional guest.


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## nealtw (Oct 5, 2013)

So the question comes down to will 200 amps be enough and how close to the house should it be. Does the RV use electic heat? I am sure there is a formula to work out usage, I just don't know what it is.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

nealtw said:


> So the question comes down to will 200 amps be enough and how close to the house should it be. Does the RV use electic heat? I am sure there is a formula to work out usage, I just don't know what it is.


 Have not decided on heat for the RV/Cabin.  There is nothing installed for heating yet.  Window AC unit for cooling.  4" thick solid logs gives it a damn good R-factor insulation which helps both.  If I was living in there; it would get an outdoor Wood heat- indoor (underfloor?) radiator system  but since it will be used as a rental till Im old.... I suspect I will put in a gas wall heater or a fuax fire  place gas heater.

Reason I say _till Im old_........ this whole layout is a 30+ years plan.  30+?yrs from now I switch out of the house and into the cabin/RV. This is assuming Im still unfortunately single, thus living as a dirty old man.  Odds point that way.  I would then trade room/board and/or inheriting the whole property upon my demise, to nursing/medical student with a small family living in the house in exchange for being my care provider. 

 After loosing everything in this last economic crunch thus living homeless last three years..... I know finances will never build up enough for any other long term care solution for myself except a _Kevorkian_ plan which sits as a realistic plan B.


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## nealtw (Oct 5, 2013)

So if you have gas heat and maybe gas stove the electrical requirement for the RV wood be quite low at least for the winter.


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## coachgeo (Oct 5, 2013)

nealtw said:


> So if you have gas heat and maybe gas stove the electrical requirement for the RV wood be quite low at least for the winter.


While it has an electric cook top now........ I did consider swapping to a LP unit.  I was given an LP unit w/stove that needs repair. Presently there is an apartment sized fridge under cook top but could move this over onto counter on other side you don't have to stoop ...... which would open up room to install the LP unit there. hmmm.......


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