# Tile on concrete flooring preparation



## nanllyn (Dec 21, 2011)

We just took up 50 year old vinyl tile off of our basement concrete  floor.  Under the tile was a black glue/adhesive that won't come off.   We even used a commercial strength adhesive remover but it didn't help  at all.  We have scraped it until the floor is smooth but we didn't know  if we needed to take the adhesive completely up.  
We are wanting to paint the flooring with waterproofing paint/sealant.  Then we will be tiling the flooring. 
So our question is do we have to completely take up the adhesive?  And  after we "paint" the floor with the waterproofer then can we just grout  over it and tile?  
Also it is a basement floor but the house is almost 70 years old and  does not have any settling cracks.  So do we need a tile membrane to  prevent the tiles from shifting and cracking? 
Thanks so much for your help.  We just want to do this correct the first time so we don't have to redo it. 
Nancy


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## nealtw (Dec 21, 2011)

Products like Red Gaard are a sealer made for preping behind tile. Goes on like paint. I would think if you can get it to stick to what you have you would be good to go.


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## webshaark (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi there, first, painting the floor before you apply your tiles will most definitely give more problems down the road than no prep at all. Second, if after 70 years the floor is not showing any stress or shrinkage cracks, odds are its not going to anytime soon and that would be the only cause for tile creaking to appear. We see the black tar like adhesives left behind by old vinyl tiles all the time. Clear as much as you can, scrape the floor as smooth as possible then with a GOOD QUALITY MORTAR, install your tiles. They are not going to give you trouble. Good luck.


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## isola96 (Dec 21, 2011)

If you do a paint you might as well do the zinser product it's not for floors it's for foundation walls puts drylock to shame as its a much higher grade sealer and goes on like paint.
Just because the foundation lasted 70 years doesn't mean that it's safe from now on, get a foundation expert to inspect it that's a lot of years to now start messing with it now.


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## webshaark (Dec 22, 2011)

Not entirely sure how we went from tiling the concrete floor to having the foundation inspected?


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## oldognewtrick (Dec 22, 2011)

webshaark said:


> Not entirely sure how we went from tiling the concrete floor to having the foundation inspected?



Thread drift, not all answers are relevant to the origional post on the internet...but we try.


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## isola96 (Dec 22, 2011)

Lol I guess a little overkill on my part it was more of a opened question then a answer.
Why paint it in the 1st place?... But if that concerned about water or movement that would be a reason why to maybe get it looked at?.. If not then go for it


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## nanllyn (Dec 23, 2011)

Well I should have explained a little more.  The reason we took up the carpet as we have had terrential rains for many weeks. We have never had the family room get wet before.  But with the ground so saturated, it soaked the carpet.  Really soaked it.  And after days and days of using a wet vac to suck up the water it just kept coming back.  So we felt like we had to remove the carpet.  Under it was the tile.  It still wouldn't dry so we ended up taking the tile up.  Now we have had lots and lots of rain but now the family room is dry.  Go figure??  There are two hair line cracks in the flooring.  Very hairline but cracks none the less.  We can not prove that is where the water came from as they are completely dry now but those were the two areas in the carpet that were soaked first. So we are pretty sure that is where it came from.  We wanted to put down a waterproof sealant so in hopes that it would not leak again. I just didn't want to make a long story. 
Thanks for your help in advance.
Nancy


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## isola96 (Dec 24, 2011)

Thanks for explaining the reason Nancy now I dont feel bad about my prior post 
The more it rains like before the water level in the ground will rise even if it has stopped raining this goes for anyone really.
Shop around for a product like the zinzer I mentioned before it's not for floors but see if they make it for floors. Literally will hold back the water the concrete will go before the paint.


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## webshaark (Dec 25, 2011)

You should also try to keep in mind that if the ground is that saturated it is rising through the cracks in the floor slab, it most likely will continue to rise around the perimeter of the slab itself where it meets the foundation. Is there not a sump pit in this basement? It would be best to plan on removing the water rather than trying hold it back.


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## nanllyn (Dec 25, 2011)

There is no sump pump in the basement.  This is a solid concrete home built in 1939.  They didn't have any water problems so they didn't think they needed a sump pump.  We are considering putting one in but it is hard to find a place to put it and then we have to bust all the concrete and tunnel through the ground to channel the water to the ditch at the road.  Which is 130 feet away. So a lot of work.


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## isola96 (Dec 25, 2011)

nanllyn said:
			
		

> There is no sump pump in the basement.  This is a solid concrete home built in 1939.  They didn't have any water problems so they didn't think they needed a sump pump.  We are considering putting one in but it is hard to find a place to put it and then we have to bust all the concrete and tunnel through the ground to channel the water to the ditch at the road.  Which is 130 feet away. So a lot of work.



You can hook sub pump PVC up to your wast line is one option.


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## webshaark (Dec 26, 2011)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but easy is not always the best way. If water is coming up from under the floor, nothing you are going to cover the floor with will solve the issue. Installing a sump pit and pump is the best solution.


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## inspectorD (Dec 26, 2011)

isola96 said:


> You can hook sub pump PVC up to your wast line is one option.



Sorry, but if you want it done correctly, you cannot attach any sump pumps to waste water lines. They need their own discharge to the exterior of the house, preferably futher than 10 feet away from the foundation.


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## isola96 (Dec 26, 2011)

inspectorD said:
			
		

> Sorry, but if you want it done correctly, you cannot attach any sump pumps to waste water lines. They need their own discharge to the exterior of the house, preferably futher than 10 feet away from the foundation.



You can as long as you have a check valve.


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## nanllyn (Dec 26, 2011)

Not get go off topic but since the sump pump was something we were researching and you seem to know about installing them....  My husband was going to put the sump pump in the area that got the most water.  We feel that is the best place plus it will fit there the best.  But we do need to "snake" a pipe to the road (as I said 130 feet away) to the ditch to drain the accumilation, it will be a big job to say none the less. But we do have those other areas that we think leaked from the floor.  (We are not for certain because it was under carpet and tiling.  But it had to come from somewhere.  The walls were completely dry so not there.  But since taking up the carpet and tiling it has rained like crazy still and no sign of water in the cracks we see on the floor.)  But we also have 2 drains in the floor that are backing up.  (Whole other issue and post).  So we know the ground is still saturated but it isn't coming up in the cracks. So do we need to have weeping piping (I think that is what the piping is called.) under our foundation to collect the water and send it to the sump pump in your opinion.
We are going to get professional opinions from people who can come out and actually see the basement, as I know this is hard to make a determination without seeing the problem.  But we want to be knowledgeable about this so we can make an informed decision.  Thanks in advance.


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## isola96 (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes technically you should run the pump hose or line out of the house but if its not much water then shouldn't harm any to hook it to a waist line. 
Regardless you need a check valve for the sub pump.


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## nealtw (Dec 26, 2011)

You are fare better off looking at putting a drain around the outside just below the level of the floor, pumping from there if required. It is doubtfull that you have nice gravel under the floor, so a sump in one corner will attract the water and the mud and anything else that is supporting the floor, only to cause trouble down the road. Keeping the water out is better than removing it.


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## isola96 (Dec 26, 2011)

nealtw said:
			
		

> You are fare better off looking at putting a drain around the outside just below the level of the floor, pumping from there if required. It is doubtfull that you have nice gravel under the floor, so a sump in one corner will attract the water and the mud and anything else that is supporting the floor, only to cause trouble down the road. Keeping the water out is better than removing it.



Water is coming up through the floor of the house not the walls, think of the house like a very heavy cup that sits on a sponge how will that method work?...


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## nealtw (Dec 27, 2011)

We are talking about ground water from rain, It fills the gound around the house until it can't hold any more. The pressure of the extra weight forces it down and under the foundation. 
Find some interesting reading here;
Basement Perimeter Drainage and Leaking Foundations


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## inspectorD (Dec 27, 2011)

isola96 said:


> You can as long as you have a check valve.



Sorry again, but if you want to pay to have your septic redone in the spring, you can follow that advice, And Municipal waste water DOES NOT let you hook up to water that will go to a wastewater treatment facility.


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## inspectorD (Dec 27, 2011)

nanllyn said:


> We are going to get professional opinions from people who can come out and actually see the basement, as I know this is hard to make a determination without seeing the problem.  But we want to be knowledgeable about this so we can make an informed decision.  Thanks in advance.



This is the best idea yet... just let us know what they suggest so you can get more information.


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