# Roof & Celing water damage



## tk3000 (Jul 21, 2014)

Hello, I have a house which has three season rooms whose partially damaged EDPM roof. The fascia board is partially rotten and so are some of the rafters, so I am no sure how safe and sound it is be up on the roof among other things; and was then considering tacking at first the repair from below and since I will have to replace some of the wood ceiling boards anyways... 

The ceiling boards are nailed and painted so it is difficult and time consuming to id and find the nails, so I was considering using prying tools to simply pry the boards. Would that be a good approach? Could I still salvage the ceiling wood boards? Below is pic which depicts the situation:


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 21, 2014)

I wouldn't worry about fixing the ceiling until you have the source of the leak fixed. Can you get a pic of the roof?


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## nealtw (Jul 21, 2014)

Build a couple temp walls under the bad area and work from above. If you have bad rafters the sheeting has to go too.


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## tk3000 (Jul 21, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> I wouldn't worry about fixing the ceiling until you have the source of the leak fixed. Can you get a pic of the roof?



The main source of the leak is patched but the thing was leaking for a very long time and so the fascia board is partially rotten and so are some portions of at least a couple of rafters. Since the fascia board is bad there is going to be some water pouring through the fascia board (small amount still). In order to replace the fascia board I would need to install good rafters, and I would rather work from below since it seems safer. 

thanks!


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## tk3000 (Jul 21, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Build a couple temp walls under the bad area and work from above. If you have bad rafters the sheeting has to go too.



Most rafters are in good shape, only 2 or 3 are bad. I understand that some of the ceiling panels need to be replaced, but in order to remove the rafter from below I would need to remove many panels that are in good condition. I wish they would screws the panels which would make removal much easier...

thanks


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## nealtw (Jul 22, 2014)

Let's start over with the twenty questions.
Rafters refer to a peaked roof, I suspect you have a fairly flat roof?
Fasia usually is on the exposed peak part of the roof but may wrap all around the house. Which are we talking about?
Cannot make out boards in the photo, but usually a flat pry bar works good and often the nails pull thru the finished wood and if they stay with the finished wood pulling them thru the wood with plyers will do little dammage to the wood finished side.
Can you post a photo of the damage outside?


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## tk3000 (Jul 23, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Let's start over with the twenty questions.
> Rafters refer to a peaked roof, I suspect you have a fairly flat roof?
> Fasia usually is on the exposed peak part of the roof but may wrap all around the house. Which are we talking about?
> Cannot make out boards in the photo, but usually a flat pry bar works good and often the nails pull thru the finished wood and if they stay with the finished wood pulling them thru the wood with plyers will do little dammage to the wood finished side.
> Can you post a photo of the damage outside?



Yeah, it is a flat roof indeed; an EPDM type of roof. So using the term rafter was a misnomer, I assume. But a flat roof still have slope somewhat (1/8 to 1/4 of an inch) The point is that overall the roof of the house is in very good shape, and the roof the for the small four season room is in good shape with exception of the spot shown below: 






This is an old photo. As of now the EPDM membrane is patched, but it needs a fascia board and aluminum drip edge. I already bought a 1x6 and primed it. I know that some parts at that spot are bad and need replaced (some ceiling panel, "rafters", etc) but I need to secure the EPDM first with a new fascia board and an aluminum drip edge thus avoiding more leaks, and then work from inside fixing and replacing the other things .

thanks!


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 23, 2014)

Simply adding drip edge will not keep the edge from leaking. You need a solid surface under the EPDM, then apply a 3X3" metal drip edge. You will need EPDM, weathered membrane cleaner to clean the area next to the drip edge. Now you take a roll of EPDM 6" cover tape and cover the top edge of the drip edge and onto the cleaned EPDM. This will help for a while, but you're looking at a new flat roof system soon though.


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## bud16415 (Jul 23, 2014)

Tk3000
I learned the terminology much the same way you did soffit, fascia, rafters, etc. 

Maybe because I&#8217;m a home owner and not a contractor or builder I see your side from wanting to work from below to some extent. I&#8217;m assuming the ceiling wood you talked about taking down is plywood that was nailed to the bottom of the rafters and painted. I see lots of porches closed in and then done like that trying to make a room out of a covered porch.

It sounds like you have the water stopped for the most part from coming in and anyway you go you need to see what&#8217;s bad and what&#8217;s good between that ceiling and the roofing. I would start with the damaged ceiling and rip it down. You need to air it out anyway. Don&#8217;t worry about saving it, it&#8217;s got mold in it and needs to go. Once the bad stuff is off you will know if you need to keep going by looking at the rafters and sheeting and poking them with an ice pick. You may have rafters that are good down to the last couple feet and you could sister some new ends on the couple bad ones. You might have to replace some of the sheeting from above and if that&#8217;s the case I don&#8217;t see where you can do much except cut out your roofing and make the fix and then patch it back in. but that&#8217;s getting ahead of things. 

Rip that ceiling down and take a look I say. It looks like a bigger deal than it is. Crowbar and hammer it will be off quick.


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## nealtw (Jul 23, 2014)

Once you have the ceiling open I suspect this will be worse than you are hoping for.


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## bud16415 (Jul 24, 2014)

You never know until you know how bad or good it will be. He did say the repairs to the top surface have stopped the water coming in. so once he gets the ceiling open even if it&#8217;s the worst case his room will stay dry while he decides what the course of action should be. I have to say that photo of the damage of the overhang looks pretty grim. If he finds the damage is only part way is it possible to pull EPDM back a few feet to work on the sheeting and then lay it back down? Or do you just cut out the bad area and then seal a new piece overlapping the repair?


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## nealtw (Jul 24, 2014)

Water damage apears to go inside 3 or 4 ft over the window, likely including the window wall, all without venting.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

oldognewtrick said:


> Simply adding drip edge will not keep the edge from leaking. You need a solid surface under the EPDM, then apply a 3X3" metal drip edge. You will need EPDM, weathered membrane cleaner to clean the area next to the drip edge. Now you take a roll of EPDM 6" cover tape and cover the top edge of the drip edge and onto the cleaned EPDM. This will help for a while, but you're looking at a new flat roof system soon though.



I realize that it is not necessary drip edge, but more like a termination thing; I would never buy a typical drip edge to hold the EPDM in place. The one present is rusted, it seems that the roofers did a poor job (previous owner paid $15,000 for a new roof, and in some spots gutters have a negative slope); so aluminum 3x3 terminating/dripping edge seems to be the best alternative. 

Thanks for the hints. I have the solvent cleaner,some epdm tape, tools (steel roller), etc, from the previous patching work. 

I plan on replacing the whole thing eventually with maybe pvc roof panels. I really do not trust this epdm membrane: it seems that even a large animal could cause damage to this thing.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

nealtw said:


> Once you have the ceiling open I suspect this will be worse than you are hoping for.



Given enough time, it all can be fixed. I need the roof up though since I can not do it all at once, and in the meantime I need to protect the house against the elements.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> Tk3000
> I learned the terminology much the same way you did soffit, fascia, rafters, etc.
> 
> Maybe because I&#8217;m a home owner and not a contractor or builder I see your side from wanting to work from below to some extent. I&#8217;m assuming the ceiling wood you talked about taking down is plywood that was nailed to the bottom of the rafters and painted. I see lots of porches closed in and then done like that trying to make a room out of a covered porch.
> ...



Thanks for the insights, bud16415!  Yeah, part of the reason for me to want to work from below is that once I have a stabilized situation (no leaks) I still have a roof to protect everything. And since it is only me and myself (not a crew), it will take some time to get everything done.

Yesterday night I sprayed high concentrated bleach to at least minimized the mold issue; but I realized that too much mold and it is not worth trying to salvage many of the panels (even ones that are seemingly good otherwise). I really want to install some pvc roof panels top of this epdm thing once it is all fixed  up.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

bud16415 said:


> You never know until you know how bad or good it will be. He did say the repairs to the top surface have stopped the water coming in. so once he gets the ceiling open even if it&#8217;s the worst case his room will stay dry while he decides what the course of action should be. I have to say that photo of the damage of the overhang looks pretty grim. If he finds the damage is only part way is it possible to pull EPDM back a few feet to work on the sheeting and then lay it back down? Or do you just cut out the bad area and then seal a new piece overlapping the repair?



The house was vacant for about a year, and there are criminal these days who steal even gutters in  a house. On occasion of stealing the gutters, they broke the epdm membrane and from that point on the hell broke loose with the severe winter and tons of ice slowly melting, then followed by the rain season.


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## Wuzzat? (Jul 24, 2014)

You're worse than NYC and New Orleans.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=52646000&city2=52255000
Carry a gun and wear Kevlar.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

Wuzzat? said:


> You're worse than NYC and New Orleans.
> http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=52646000&city2=52255000
> Carry a gun and wear Kevlar.



Yeah, that is very depressing... I have lived in so called third world countries, etc, and never saw criminals stealing things like gutters, pipes, and house wiring.


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## tk3000 (Jul 24, 2014)

In order to, at least, improve the visual appearance I replace and reinforced the fascia board as follows: 







Reinforced with 2x4:


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