# Bedroom I Floor Renovation



## tk3000 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hello Folks, 
Lately I am tacking a floor new of the first bedroom of a house bought few months ago. Apparently, it had carpet in the past, the carpet was on top an old vinyl floor which is  largely peeling off on its own; so I went ahead and removed the old dirty vinyl floor along with the remaining staples and nails used to hold the carpet in place.  The subfloor has a small surface superficial damage in a small superficial  spot (2 x 2 inches area) and overall seems solid, so since I will apply a layer of thinset below the backerboard was wondering whether or not this  would require any extra attention before thinset applicaiton: does not thinset even out small variations and fill small crevices? 

Once the old dirty and in bad shape vinyl (or linoleum) floor is removed along with it is tar black underlayment, the subfloor is thoroughly cleaned. The plan would then be to apply thin set to hold the ¼ backer board in place which would  be disposed in a staggering layout and perpendicular to the subfloor boards; subsequently screwing backerboards to the subfloor. In a next phase will start to install the ceramic tiles, etc.  Presently, the subfloor is not perfect even all around, but it is mostly square and even with small deviation but it is very small (the level's bubble is mostly leaning towards the center even on the spots where there is small variations), and I would imagine such small imperfection could be offset with the thinset below the backer board without resourcing to a self-leveling underlayment/compound?

Also, I plan on removing the baseboardy and install the backerboard with a 1/8 distance of the wall studs+thickness of the drywall = so, the final distance of the outer edges of the backerboard would 1/8" from the drywall (some places are missing drywall so have to account for the thickness of the future drywall).
Below are some pics portraying the situation at hand: 






(The old vinyl or linolium floor still in place) 







(linoleum or vinyl floor removed)


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## Rusty (Feb 18, 2015)

The first picture looks like a slab, the  second looks like plywood?


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## bud16415 (Feb 18, 2015)

I think that&#8217;s why he labeled them  (The old vinyl or linolium floor still in place) (linoleum or vinyl floor removed)


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## tk3000 (Feb 19, 2015)

bud16415 said:


> I think thats why he labeled them  (The old vinyl or linolium floor still in place) (linoleum or vinyl floor removed)



Yeah, sure enough, to make it more clear. The first show the old worn out and in bad shape linoleum (or vinyl) flooring. The second shows the bedroom once the the old and worn out linoleum/vinyl was removed.  There are some marks on the subfloor that maybe paint residue from some paint job that took place at some lost time in the past.


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## GBR (Feb 20, 2015)

So did you see if the floor will hold tile; http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl

Gary
PS. the paint is from the original painter spilled when painting the brand new drywall, before floor-coverings are installed- same as today...


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## tk3000 (Feb 26, 2015)

GBR said:


> So did you see if the floor will hold tile; http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl
> 
> Gary
> PS. the paint is from the original painter spilled when painting the brand new drywall, before floor-coverings are installed- same as today...



I haven't quite done it yet. Not a long time ago it was too cold, and the hvac system is off, plus it is a huge house with a one floor plan so I am using small propane heaters at the rooms I use. On top of that I have other activities,etc...

But I checked the subfloor and it is 1 1/2 inches thick, so that quite a robust subfloor for a bedroom. But yesterday I was trying to cut opening in the duralock board for the floor hvac register, and then realized that I should have bought hardie backer board instead. This duralock thing is a pain to cut with a utility knife (and got two blades broken). 


Thanks!


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## tk3000 (Mar 26, 2015)

I am back to this project with the intent to finish it. But I stumbled upon two issues. First the window casing/frame (which a relatively new) inside the house still has pieces of old drywall inside it, so I was wondering if it would be ok to simply purge any remaining piece of drying inside the edges of the windows case and then filled it in with expandable foam. The pic below depicts the situation: 






I am also not planing on removing the wood  frame surrounding the window on the interior doors, so I am planing on putting pieces of rigid insulation on top of the wood frame. Everywhere else the wood strips would be used to hold the insulation in place. 

Pic of the ongoing work: 






Secondly, by adding 3/4" rigid insulation panel the walls will get much thicker and thus will protrude out of the window casing, basically it will be strange and uneven. I was wondering whether or not there would be any work around this?


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## joecaption (Mar 27, 2015)

No way would I use the old framing that's there for several reasons.
Untreated wood should not be in direct contact with the concrete.
Not going to allow enough room for the needed insulation. (I'd guess your area needs a minimum of R-13, Some areas require R-19 or even 20 in outside walls.)
Makes it a whole lot harder to run wiring.
Remove what's there, including the window trim, install 2" thick foam and tape the seams, Build a wall in front of the foam, and frame in around the window.
Do all your wiring, add insulation, vapor barrier then sheet rock.
The window will need jamb extentions.


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## tk3000 (Mar 28, 2015)

joecaption said:


> No way would I use the old framing that's there for several reasons.
> Untreated wood should not be in direct contact with the concrete.
> Not going to allow enough room for the needed insulation. (I'd guess your area needs a minimum of R-13, Some areas require R-19 or even 20 in outside walls.)
> Makes it a whole lot harder to run wiring.
> ...



So, I will use new pressured treated wood strips to hold the rigid insulation panels in place; and also replace the wood blocks surrounding the windows opening. I have never worked on windows on masonry walls before, and it has some metal strips/flange with nails apparently connecting the the bare wood blocks surronnding the windows opening to the window jambs in the interior of the room.

Thanks for the insights!


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## joecaption (Mar 28, 2015)

The only wood that needs to be pressure treated is the bottom plate.
The studs do not really hold the foam in place, the constrution adhesive made for foam does that.


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## tk3000 (Mar 29, 2015)

Yeah, I plan on using foam adhesive as well; but I would not trust it to keep the insulation panel in place but as an add on to keep the insulation panels sealed to the wall surface. I would imagine that the wood strips (or even a grid) would be a more permanet solution to hold the panels in place. And they also would be needed in order to screw the drywall panels.


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## nealtw (Jun 18, 2015)

shinystar said:


> WHich Ply to use marine ply or Commercial



Commercial


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## tk3000 (Jul 19, 2015)

Hello Folks, 
It has been some time every since I posted in this thread. Lots of things were done in different fronts, and regarding this bedroom I installed the backer board, screwed it with hundreds of screws, taped it, more thinset, etc... (too much work, next time I may used laminate). 







Too much haze due to my lapsing in removing grout from tile in a timely manner.






Then came the ceramic tiles installation per say, and admittedly I made some stupid and haste mistakes. The most notorious of which was ignoring the fact that some of the tiles were substantially larger than others. The end result was ugly misaligned grout line intersections:






So, I was wondering whether or not removal of the affected tile would be easy and precise enough. First timer first job in this department did not yield good results


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 19, 2015)

If it bothers you, I would give thought to taking a grinder with a tile blade and trimming the edge of the tile, then re-grout the joint. Just a random thought...


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## oldognewtrick (Jul 19, 2015)

Well, then you'd have wonky grout lines...never mind...


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## beachguy005 (Jul 19, 2015)

First, make sure you have the correct size tiles to replace them.  Get one of the small grout saws from HD and saw out the grout from around the tiles you want to take out.  That way you're not going to damage the surrounding tiles.  Use a hammer and chisel to break up the tile and remove the thinset. Fit the proper size tile, thinset it in place and regrout.
It's actually a pretty simple job.
Doesn't look like you were using spacers for the tile.  Unless you're a pro tiler, it's never a good idea to just eyeball it.


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## nealtw (Jul 19, 2015)

It's a bedroom, It's fine for a first timer.


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## tk3000 (Jul 20, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> First, make sure you have the correct size tiles to replace them.  Get one of the small grout saws from HD and saw out the grout from around the tiles you want to take out.  That way you're not going to damage the surrounding tiles.  Use a hammer and chisel to break up the tile and remove the thinset. Fit the proper size tile, thinset it in place and regrout.
> It's actually a pretty simple job.
> Doesn't look like you were using spacers for the tile.  Unless you're a pro tiler, it's never a good idea to just eyeball it.



yep, I was using spacers at first, but then I started to neglect them due to the fact that some tiles were way larger than others which then created a chain reaction of tiles with very different grout crosses thus forcing me to neglect the spacers and try to compensate by eyeballing. So, it was not intentional and I was planning on using spacers all the way around but due to different tile sizes I had stop using them; had I kept using them, the different and misalignment would be much larger and uglier. 

I have an oscillating tool and a drywall cutting too, and both should have a grout cutter, I will try them. thanks


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## tk3000 (Jul 20, 2015)

oldognewtrick said:


> If it bothers you, I would give thought to taking a grinder with a tile blade and trimming the edge of the tile, then re-grout the joint. Just a random thought...



yep, I live your approach; so I don't have to destroy a whole tile. I will try it too, at least on ones of the tiles to see how it ends up, if it gets wonky (likely it will) I will use the second approach (removing the tile)


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## nealtw (Jul 20, 2015)

opps.............................


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## beachguy005 (Jul 20, 2015)

"_I was planning on using spacers all the way around but due to different tile sizes I had stop using them; had I kept using them, the different and misalignment would be much larger and uglier._ "

It wasn't the spacers that caused or would continue to cause issues.....it was you using different size tiles that created the problem.


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## tk3000 (Jul 20, 2015)

beachguy005 said:


> "_I was planning on using spacers all the way around but due to different tile sizes I had stop using them; had I kept using them, the different and misalignment would be much larger and uglier._ "
> 
> It wasn't the spacers that caused or would continue to cause issues.....it was you using different size tiles that created the problem.



Sure enough. I never really imagined that in the 21 century, something as simple and basic as ceramic tiles from the same brand, same store, same batch, etc, would come with so much discrepancy in sizes. Guess my assumption and ignorance played a big role.


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## nealtw (Jul 22, 2015)

Sometimes tiles are a little longer than they are wide, and checking the pattern on the backside helps keeping thing going in the right direction and sometimes they are just re-ject tiles that are different sizes.


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## slownsteady (Jul 22, 2015)

Please post the brand of tiles so we can avoid them in the future.


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## nealtw (Jul 22, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Please post the brand of tiles so we can avoid them in the future.



They are the one under the discount sign:hide:


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## tk3000 (Jul 23, 2015)

slownsteady said:


> Please post the brand of tiles so we can avoid them in the future.



This is it: Rocca Ceramic Floor or Wall Tile 12" x 12"

Purchased at a local Menards store, it is made in the USA.


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## tk3000 (Jul 23, 2015)

nealtw said:


> They are the one under the discount sign:hide:




Yep, sure enough; it is on sale right now. But apart from the this obtuse size differences they kind of look nice and have nice texture onto the tile. Next time I will match all the tiles for size differences before even begin any work. 

http://www.menards.com/main/floorin...oor-or-wall-tile-12-x-12/p-2181973-c-6547.htm


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