# Want to see something scary



## Zachary (Jan 29, 2013)

These are pics from my new house, all of this has been removed and/or corrected


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 29, 2013)

Just curious: did you have any symptoms?


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## Zachary (Jan 29, 2013)

Symptoms?  Not sure what you mean lol  If you're asking if there was ever a fire or such...no


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 29, 2013)

Flickering or dim lights, strange smells or noises?  If the connections in the two top pics were soldered under the tape (probably not) you might have gotten away with it.


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## JoeD (Jan 29, 2013)

Wuzzat? said:


> 1If the connections in the two top pics were soldered under the tape (probably not) you might have gotten away with it.



Gotten away with what? Even soldering those connections must be in boxes with lids.


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## Zachary (Jan 29, 2013)

I didn't do any of this...it was all in the house when I bought it...all the spliced in connections have been boxed in properly or removed, since some went to fixtures I removed.  They weren't soldered either, just bent around the exposed wire.


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## Zachary (Jan 29, 2013)

I will say this, when I first got the power turned on the living room light, which btw was a wall mount light hanging from the ceiling (see pic) with no box, just screwed to a ceiling joist...was live all the time and the kitchen lights were not able to be turned on...this whole part of the house was more or less rewired


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## nealtw (Jan 29, 2013)

At least you had some hints before you bought the house. That is why we encourage people to open walls when renovating.


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## Zachary (Jan 29, 2013)

I was aware of all of this when I bought the house...all fairly easy to fix.  The walls with the extension cord wiring were removed


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 30, 2013)

JoeD said:


> Gotten away with what? Even soldering those connections must be in boxes with lids.


I have to ask:
How many houses are up to Code?  
How many have fires because they are not?
There is nowadays no way to get truthful answers about this off the Web.

I know people can have a "zero risk bias" but it is pretty costly to the HO if the Code people also have it.  I doubt there is an incentive, at least with the NEC, to do a cost/benefit/safety analysis.  I asked them.  And I don't believe there are any consumer advocates on the Code Panels.
Would people buy AFCIs with their nuisance tripping if they didn't have to, for a zero or marginal increase in safety?

There is such a thing as Evidence Based Medicine, where they actually run impartial studies to see if medical techniques work, and some doctors are acting like this is such a breakthrough idea (. . . Duh. . . !)  The book, "The Last Well Person" has more info on this.
If this evidence-based technique were used in many other fields it would put our capitalist society out of business.  
Imagine vendors having the Burden of Proof that their products/techniques actually work.  :


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## CallMeVilla (Jan 30, 2013)

I wish I had pics from all the scary wiring I have found over the years.  One of my favs was an open receptacle on the stud wall with a shower. Have already told about the ground wire clamped to the gas pipe.


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## ohmy (Jan 30, 2013)

Wuzzat? said:


> I have to ask:
> How many houses are up to Code?
> How many have fires because they are not?
> There is nowadays no way to get truthful answers about this off the Web.
> ...



You could make this argument about all safety laws. Seatbelts are a major inconvenience and you may never "need" one. People "get away" with drunk driving everyday but that does not mean you ought to do it.

 Open splices are dangerous and lead to fires but not every splice will lead to a fire. Just like not every drunk driver will cause a fire. 

 All building codes step on homeowners' rights as free individuals, but that is a discussion for the political forums


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## Admin (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow! The bathroom light in the kitchen is funny.


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## drewdin (Jan 30, 2013)

i think this was my house.. I wish i took some pictures before i renovated my mess


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## Wuzzat? (Jan 30, 2013)

ohmy said:


> You could make this argument about all safety laws. Seatbelts are a major inconvenience and you may never "need" one. People "get away" with drunk driving everyday but that does not mean you ought to do it.
> 
> Open splices are dangerous and lead to fires but not every splice will lead to a fire. Just like not every drunk driver will cause a fire.
> 
> All building codes step on homeowners' rights as free individuals, but that is a discussion for the political forums


I'm making a slightly different argument, and it's for the ratio of marginal safety gained vs. price paid, and the lack of incentives for Code Panels to even consider this calculation.

With a circuit breaker that costs $10 you may get $10 worth of safety.  Probably the same with GFCIs although before they came along people probably weren't dropping like flies.  With both there is a moral hazard, in that people who know there is a backup will be less careful.

With AFCIs, an arc is supposed to be not a gas, liquid or solid but a fourth state of matter which is 'plasma'.  
I doubt this will ever be properly characterized, let alone capable of being detected with a reasonably low rate of false positives.
I asked NIST about a standard for 'arcs', if they have a 'calibrated arc',  and so far they have not replied.

With seatbelts you get other injuries but almost certainly the mortality rate is reduced.  Same with airbags, you may get deafened or be burned by sodium azide.

It may be a discussion for Game Theory forums, but once politics is involved the whole thing gets subverted/perverted.

You ever heard of Stevia?  Because it occurs naturally it cannot be patented.  Some politicians are screaming "Restraint of free trade".


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## speedy petey (Jan 30, 2013)

Zachary said:


> I didn't do any of this...it was all in the house when I bought it...all the spliced in connections have been boxed in properly or removed, since some went to fixtures I removed.  They weren't soldered either, just bent around the exposed wire.


If that is your fix there are a few issues. 
You need to leave longer tails in the box, and you need to ground the box. You _should_ also strip off more sheathing, leave only about 1/2" inside the box.


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